Peyronies Society Forums

Peyronies Disease TREATMENT Discussion Boards => Verapamil - Injections & Topical Applications including Iontophoresis => Topic started by: Sanabo on July 09, 2021, 03:30:21 PM

Title: Verapamil help with hourglass?
Post by: Sanabo on July 09, 2021, 03:30:21 PM
I have the bottleneck hourglass effect under my glans. The plaque is below that so its weird that this is happening. I also have an indent in middle of my glans.

Will verapamil help these get better?
Title: Re: Verapamil help with hourglass?
Post by: AverageBloke on July 09, 2021, 05:33:22 PM
No. Do not waste your time with verapamil. It does not do anything and worsen your condition. You could try xiaflex I have heard some accounts on the forum that it got rid of dents/hourglasses.
Title: Re: Verapamil help with hourglass?
Post by: howtheheck on July 09, 2021, 07:14:10 PM
I would talk to a doctor who does both, and could feedback where one fits over the other.  Some doctors only did Verapamil injections and then Xiaflex came along and they switched to just Xiaflex.  So the above statement has some validity-yet they could have switched to Xiaflex only because it is the only FDA approved which their malpractice insurance may have demanded they do Xiaflex only.  However, I think Dr. Levine did or does Verapamil and Xiaflex.  However, someone feel free to correct me here if I am wrong since I have done neither. 
Title: Re: Verapamil help with hourglass?
Post by: Sanabo on July 10, 2021, 08:14:04 AM
My doc says it is his first line treatment - cheaper and less risk - and that he won't do xiaflex unless it is really bad and verapamil fails

The NP he works with says they do 5 a week, more Peyronies guys then we know, and that it helps with pain especially.

I need to get rid of the bottleneck. It is affecting my erections. My glans doesn't get as filled as it used to.

I bought a PMP but I'm araid to use bc I am in pain

Verapamil studies I've read look pretty encouraging
Title: Re: Verapamil help with hourglass?
Post by: AverageBloke on July 10, 2021, 05:19:32 PM
Hi Sanabo,

I’m going to warn you again out of courtesy because I do not want you to make the same mistake I made. If you search ‘verapamil’ in the search bar, I suggest you read all the members experiences. You will find that members had no effect or got worse.

My doctor is a peyronies specialist and he said that 70% of his patients improve with verapamil, it can stop progression etc…. But that is complete BS. I do not believe the studies either.

My personal experience: I had 5 verapamil injections for a 30 degree dorsal and 30 degree curve to the right. Each injection caused more indentations, penis thinning and put me back into the acute stage.

Your curve is only mild, I would not inject anything. I would take pentox & tadalafil, let the pain and changes stabilise. Then implement traction or VED.

Senior members like Hawk & Old Man who have dealt with peyronies for years and years also recommend against verapamil.

Just my 2 cents…

Title: Re: Verapamil help with hourglass?
Post by: Benraycamp0 on July 10, 2021, 05:53:01 PM
Just saying that Dr. Levine still actively uses Verapamil when it makes sense. I’m not saying that it makes sense in your case, but Levine does still see results with Verapamil and traction.
Title: Re: Verapamil help with hourglass?
Post by: Sanabo on July 10, 2021, 09:23:51 PM
Alright.  I'm going to take your advice and stay away from it. I just started taking Pentox and I think it is helping. My penis feels way better lately.
Title: Re: Verapamil help with hourglass?
Post by: Bill2020 on July 11, 2021, 06:56:43 PM

Could you please tell me who your doctor is (the Peyronies specialist)?
Title: Re: Verapamil help with hourglass?
Post by: FlatteningTheCurve on July 14, 2021, 05:29:52 AM
So I think there are a few things to address here:

AverageBloke - you clearly had a very bad result of your Verapamil-treatment. That is terrible and I do not wish that upon anyone. Obviously, when you take a step to undergo an invasive treatment such as that to address an already frustrating condition such as Peyronies Disease, ending up worse than before is beyond imaginable.

That said, I do not agree with what you are saying about not trusting scientific studies, that a lot of people that have posted about Verapamil on the forum had negative effects and that a lot of people recommend not using it.

Scientific studies drive the development of all drugs, including medical treatments for Peyronies Disease. Verapamil has been around since the early 1980's. If the scientific studies are bogus and it keeps hurting a majority of the patients, then why is it still around? Why do Peyronies Disease specialists suggest it as a treatment for Peyronies Disease?

Comments made by the members of this forum can be a useful source of information, but I would not treat it as scientific evidence comparable to, say, a journal article. That is, if 8/10 people on this forum posts that Verapamil made their condition worse, does that mean that 80% of all Verapamil patients actually end up worse than before?

For example, this scientific study ( took place over 18 months and featured 41 patients that underwent Verapamil injections along with antioxidants, propolis and diclofenac and 41 who choose not to undergo any medical treatment. These were the results:

"In group A (treatment group), after treatment of 6 and 18 months, the change in plaque volume consisted in volume reduction= - 47.6% and -73.6% respectively, while in group B (control group), the change consisted of an increase in plaque volume= +55.7% and +118.7% respectively (p=0.000). In group A, after treatment of 6 and 18 months, improvement of curvature occurred in 76.3% and 81.5% of the cases respectively, while in group B it occurred in 2.7% and 8.1%, respectively (p<0.0001)."

This is just to provide some counter evidence, I do not think Verapamil is inherently evil to all patients and we have to look at other factors instead, such as the doctor who administrates it or how it reacts with other medications or individual conditions.

Sanabo - I do however agree with AverageBloke in that if your curvature is not over 50-60 degrees, then I would try a lot of non-invasive forms of treatment before opting for injections. It is risky to undergo any invasive treatment and should probably not be a first resort. You can come a long way with Coq-10, Pentox, Tadalafil, L-arginine combined with VED, light manual stretching and traction. If your penis feels better lately after taking Pentox, then I would hold off injections. If you have tried other forms of treatment and would later feel like you have exhausted your options, then that is another matter.
Title: Re: Verapamil help with hourglass?
Post by: Bud luck on September 06, 2021, 08:08:15 PM
I have indentation on the right side of my shaft and some narrowing/hinge. There is an study by Dr Levine that showed major improvement with hourglass/Narrowing using verapamil injections. The study said that girth improved in all patients. But other "experts" said that when you have narrowing or indentation the only way to improve is a penis implant. Personally, I went to 3 " Peroynes experts" and none of them believe Dr Levine study, so they refused to give me Verapamil injections. Who do I trust?, when it comes to Peroynes nobody agrees on what to do
Title: Re: Verapamil help with hourglass?
Post by: AverageBloke on September 07, 2021, 12:40:30 AM
My personal verapamil experience was very unpleasant. It just gave me indentations and caused girth loss.
Title: Re: Verapamil help with hourglass?
Post by: FlatteningTheCurve on September 08, 2021, 03:57:18 PM
As far as I understand it there is no single approach that fits all patients, plain and simple. Your case needs to be analysed by a legitimate specialist who offers Verapamil injections but who can also assess your condition without just resorting to injections for the sake of making a profit.

The potential positive effects of any treatment can depend on a range of factors including, but not limited to: your medical history, any underlying conditions, how long ago since your plaque was formed, your curvature, the possible calcification of your plaque, where the plaque is located, what you want to achieve from an intervention (erection quality, reduced indentation, reduced curvature or all three), how your body reacts to what you are doing aside from the injections, such as VED and so on. That specialist should examine you using ultrasound etc. and then be able to provide clarity in terms of what the injections could address and what they cannot. This should help you decide on whether Verapamil is worth it for you.

In other words, depending on your situation, specialists are likely to offer different treatments and no one will likely offer all possible ones.m I have read articles that say Verapamil has some effect but not in all of the cases, some that praise Xiaflex while others say that Xiaflex is more risky than Verapamil because it is a moire 'aggressive' substance. Urologists out there will likely have their own interpretations of these findings, and it is difficult to navigate all of the information out there!

If you are willing to try Verapamil and feel like you have exhausted other options, then I would suggest finding a specialist who can offer this treatment. Ask him/her for statistics of their patients' degree of improvement in terms of curvature, indention and length. There are a lot of people out there that offer this treatment but that may have a dubious track record.

Again, I would only do so after trying other non-invasive treatments such as daily traction, VED, Tadalafil, Pentox and/or various supplements for at least a year. Doing this can really do wonders for you. If your condition does not prevent you from having sex then I would hesitate to proceed straight to injections. But that is just me.