Peyronies Society Forums

Hi All

A few years back I was tentatively diagnosed with a mild case of Peyronies disease.

The urologist found 2 hard nodules of scare tissue, one each side below of the head of my penis, and also noted a curve to the left in the penile shaft.

I recently read on the Peyronies disease wikipage that penis stretching exercises were thought to be a possible treatment for this disease.

Wikipedia is not a completely reliable source but its one that tends towards being right so I started trying the stretching exercises. I have been focusing on the left nodule and the bend in the shaft and leaving the right nodule (which was the noticeably smaller of the 2 nodules) mostly alone ( I figured I could use it as a comparison point for the left nodule that I was focusing on). After one week I am seeing pretty good improvement. The bend I think is slightly corrected, and the left nodule is very difficult to locate now -- almost feels like its not there, while the right nodule is showing a bit of improvement as well (The fact that the left nodule was the larger of the 2 and now almost feels like its not there seems encouraging to me). I also have noticed a marked increase in sexual function.

However I am slightly concerned as now I am having a bit of sourness around the left nodule and in the base of my penis -- is it possible that these exercises  could be a short term gain but lead to more scaring in the long run? I am being very careful not to stretch to vigorously and have been spending about 10 or 15 minutes doing the exercises each day. I also use some topical vitamin E after doing the exercises in hopes this may also help prevent scaring, and I am taking a combination of vitamin E and C supplements (as I read these may help prevent scaring as well).

I wanted to share this info partially incase it is useful to others and also to make sure I am not doing anything fool hearty trying these exercises.

I notice these exercises are often mentioned on penis enlargement websites, and since such websites clearly are not reputable I have a natural concern regarding them.

Thank you for any advice you may have on the issue.

Hi and welcome to the forum!  You neglect to say the form that this stratching takes (traction, vaccum, jelqing etc), though as you mentioned the time period and 'penis enlargement sites', I assume that you're using jelqing techniques. Perhaps you'd like to state the exercises you're doing? It's certainly promising if a nodule has been present for years and has now started to disappear. The time period worries me a bit, as well as the soreness. I can only speak for VED and traction use, but typically people view things in terms of months, rather than weeks. Therefore, I'd say that if pain is present during or after you have stretched, that you should rest until this pain has gone. It may be the case that performing exercises every other day is safer?

As for anti-scarring treatments, vitamin E on its own taken orally or topically probably doesn't do an awful lot of good. You would likely be a good candidate for pentoxiflynne (an oral treatment). A recent study demonstrated that in some men it can reduce curvature in long term (1year+) peyronie's sufferers. In your case, with these exercises perhaps it can also have a preventative action too.

Hi NewGuy

Thanks for the feed back. I will make sure to ask my urologist about pentoxiflynne.

The exercises I was doing were just simple stretching -- pulling and holding for about 30 seconds at different angels trying to focus the stretch on the regions that needed the most help (stretching against the curve and stretching out the nodule as much as possible).

I stopped (or at least did very little) for a day or so to see if the soreness would go away. Today I discovered that the benefits I reported seemed to go away rather rapidly -- most notedly the nodule was back as large (or maybe larger) than before. I did the stretching again when I discovered this and seems to have helped again -- the nodule is much less prominent and noticable than it was before (though perhaps not quite as small as it was a day or 2 ago) -- this effect has lasted about 12 hours so far. It the results seem a bit odd -- perhaps in the healing process the area swelled up again. The sourness hasn't really improved much either. I intend to try taking it easier at the very least and seeing if things don't improve over the next few days. Hopefully I am not doing anything harmful to my self with this experiment :/. Any idea if such simple stretching exercises are known to create problems?

Also do you have any web sites with good info on: pentoxiflynne?

Thanks again for the help.

Hope you are well.

Quote from: newguy on November 18, 2009, 08:13:51 AM
Hi and welcome to the forum!  You neglect to say the form that this stratching takes (traction, vaccum, jelqing etc), though as you mentioned the time period and 'penis enlargement sites', I assume that you're using jelqing techniques. Perhaps you'd like to state the exercises you're doing? It's certainly promising if a nodule has been present for years and has now started to disappear. The time period worries me a bit, as well as the soreness. I can only speak for VED and traction use, but typically people view things in terms of months, rather than weeks. Therefore, I'd say that if pain is present during or after you have stretched, that you should rest until this pain has gone. It may be the case that performing exercises every other day is safer?

As for anti-scarring treatments, vitamin E on its own taken orally or topically probably doesn't do an awful lot of good. You would likely be a good candidate for pentoxiflynne (an oral treatment). A recent study demonstrated that in some men it can reduce curvature in long term (1year+) peyronie's sufferers. In your case, with these exercises perhaps it can also have a preventative action too.

Quote from: wf2009 on November 19, 2009, 03:00:03 AM
Any idea if such simple stretching exercises are known to create problems?

Also do you have any web sites with good info on: pentoxiflynne?

Thanks again for the help.

Hope you are well.

Quote from: newguy on November 18, 2009, 08:13:51 AM
Hi and welcome to the forum!  You neglect to say the form that this stratching takes (traction, vaccum, jelqing etc), though as you mentioned the time period and 'penis enlargement sites', I assume that you're using jelqing techniques. Perhaps you'd like to state the exercises you're doing? It's certainly promising if a nodule has been present for years and has now started to disappear. The time period worries me a bit, as well as the soreness. I can only speak for VED and traction use, but typically people view things in terms of months, rather than weeks. Therefore, I'd say that if pain is present during or after you have stretched, that you should rest until this pain has gone. It may be the case that performing exercises every other day is safer?

As for anti-scarring treatments, vitamin E on its own taken orally or topically probably doesn't do an awful lot of good. You would likely be a good candidate for pentoxiflynne (an oral treatment). A recent study demonstrated that in some men it can reduce curvature in long term (1year+) peyronie's sufferers. In your case, with these exercises perhaps it can also have a preventative action too.

Pentoxifylline Evidence to take to your urologist..

Pentox study from Iran (https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,1004.msg23292.html#msg23292) (New Study. Check it out)
Online review article by Tom Lue - excellent (Has good Pentox support for your urologist (https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,723.msg15222.html#msg15222)
Pentox - Dr. Lue Case Study / Levine mentions his use of Pentox (https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,772.msg17420.html#msg17420)

Anything that damages your penis can worsen your condition. That's why I suggested the rest. Stretching (via tractiond evices and VED) has seen some results in men, so I won't rule ou that manual stretching can help too. In all cases though it's important to be very careful.

Thanks for the links. I will check them out and show them to my urologist.

At the moment I am doing the stretches less often and rather gently and slowly -- seems to be working out well again (hopefully that will last).

Thanks for all the help.

Hope you are well.

Please do let us know what happens :). Hopefully you'll be given a pentox prescription. Also, keep us informed regarding the stretching!

Quote from: wf on November 20, 2009, 03:59:13 AM
Thanks for the links. I will check them out and show them to my urologist.

At the moment I am doing the stretches less often and rather gently and slowly -- seems to be working out well again (hopefully that will last).

Thanks for all the help.

Hope you are well.

Thanks for the help new guy

I have an appointment to see my uro in 2 weeks and I intend to show him the useful links you sent me. Sounds promising :).

I now have a new development though that has me quite concerned.

In the last week I also added massage to the techniques I was using to try to break up the plague (I read some articles saying it was good for scar tissue in general so I decided to give it a try). I attempt to build flexibility into the scar tissue by breaking it up with my thumb and forfinger (similarly to how break up scar tissue in muscles when I give a massage), and also I try to flex that area of the penis around as much as possible to break down/add mobility to the scar tissue as well. I have been spending 10 to 20 minutes twice dally doing these routines. I had seen impressive results -- the scar tissue is much softer and more flexible, a good bit smaller, and my sexual function had improved significantly.

If I ever have any pain or soreness  I try to stop immediately, and I try to begin slowly and work up the intensity of what I am doing gradually in the hopes of not doing any damage.

Last night massage seemed to be working incredibly well, I noticed the tissue become more soft and flexible so I kept it up a bit longer than usual -- about 40 minutes. I had no pain at all but at the end of the massage I felt a what seemed to me like a very small piece of the scar tissue (size of a few large grains of sand) break off and "dissolve" or at least flake away so I couldn't feel it any more. At that moment I felt no pain but I started feeling a very hot all over my whole body for some reason. At the time I thought this was a sign of great success. The scar tissue in that region feels very flexible now, much more like normal tissue, and it is quite a bit smaller or at least much less noticeable now.

However when I woke up the next morning I found that my sexual function which been vastly improved was now pretty much non existent -- the worst it had been in years.

I find this rather concerning so I wanted to ask here if perhaps I could have done some serious harm to my self.

The area tingles a bit, and has a little bit of soreness though not much.

Hopefully I didn't damage any veins of nerves in this process, or some how aggravate/create some sort of venous leak.

I am hoping that if I let the area rest for a few days any tissue damage that may have been caused will correct its self. In the mean time I find my self rather worried however.

Any thoughts about this would be greatly appreciated.

Hope you are well.

W

Quote from: newguy on November 20, 2009, 07:26:44 AM
Please do let us know what happens :). Hopefully you'll be given a pentox prescription. Also, keep us informed regarding the stretching!

Quote from: wf on November 20, 2009, 03:59:13 AM
Thanks for the links. I will check them out and show them to my urologist.

At the moment I am doing the stretches less often and rather gently and slowly -- seems to be working out well again (hopefully that will last).

Thanks for all the help.

Hope you are well.

Exactly where is the area located that you were massaging and this small piece of scar tissue "broke off". Top, left or right side, bottom, etc. Trying to figure out what part of your penile anatomy you might have experienced this.

Hi lwillis

I have 2 nodules just below below/inside the of the head of my penis, one of the left, and one on the right (like 2 hard elongated small peas). My urologist identified this as "seeming to be scar tissue" and noted that I had some peyronies disease. The area I was focusing on was the left nodule. The piece broke off from the upper most tip of the tissue closest to the head of the penis.

Thanks in advance for incites you may have. My sexual function seems to be completely gone now. I can get a partial erection with some effort but the instant I let go of it it just collapses to the left. Very concerning. Not any better after a day and a half rest.

Hope you are well

W

Quote from: lwillisjr on November 24, 2009, 09:51:10 AM
Exactly where is the area located that you were massaging and this small piece of scar tissue "broke off". Top, left or right side, bottom, etc. Trying to figure out what part of your penile anatomy you might have experienced this.

W

Any sign of a bruise, black or blue spot? Any sign of a bulge like a punctured vein or artery?

IMHO you need to get to a good Male Sexual Function doctor ASAP.

Jackp

On a positive note for our friend, maybe the healthy tissue is going to rebuild itself. Assuming you separated the scar tissue from the bad tissue, won't the tissue enhance itself? Perhaps this is the natural healing process. Figure, if you have hard tissue on your arm for example, and you constantly stretch it, the scar tissue will eventually break away. You will feel pain or numbness for a while and then will presumably have full use again.

Just a thought.

Quote from: wf on November 24, 2009, 03:21:59 PM
My sexual function seems to be completely gone now. I can get a partial erection with some effort but the instant I let go of it it just collapses to the left. Very concerning. Not any better after a day and a half rest.

wf,
There is a bundle of nerves that runs right along the top of the penis from the base to the glans. If you were massaging on each side then I would assume the nerves are OK. But definitely something is different since you notices such a dramatic difference in your ability to acheive an erection. I think I agree with jackp that you need to get to someone and get it checked out.

chiguy,
"You will feel pain or numbness for a while and then will presumably have full use again."

When it comes to my penis I've learned not to "presume" anything ;-)

Good point Lwillis!

I am experiencing a complete reduction in pain. However, I am also starting to experience a partial inability to maintain an erection. I can maintain perfectly fine thru stimulation, but that's it. I must stimulate constantly. I also have lost all nocturnal erections. Has anyone else ever had a pain reduction along with this issue? Does anyone have any suggestions about what I can do prior to me seeing Dr. Levine in a few weeks?

Chiguy,

I am getting pain reduction with a slight loss in sensitivity. It's not the best trade-off but I'll take it.

-Skjald

Yea I have that too. I have read that the nerves will rebuild themselves so I'm not too worried about the sensitivity. Some people actually like it because it allows them to last longer. I personally think I was just used to the pain for 10 months and it will heal itself.

Any loss in erection strength?

Not really. If I'm uh, motivated, I seem to be fine. If I'm tense or get too focused on the how the hourglassing looks or what have you, that seems to put a damper on the whole deal. So that may be more of a mental thing. If you're still getting an erection with stimulation it may be more psychological than anything else. Are you sure about not getting nighttime erections? How deep of a sleeper are you? You might not notice them.

I understand the possible benefits of lasting longer but it's not really relevant for me in my current stage of life. I'm married and sex for me and the wife is not a contest to hammer away as long as I can. I don't think the wife would appreciate that actually. The loss of sensitivity means stimulation feels less good, which isn't great. We're trying for kids so sometimes we have to go by the biological clock and not necessarily by how in the mood we are so being able to seal the deal in a reasonable amount of time is a good thing.

-Skjald

I understand how hard it is, especially with the indentations and curvature. In my experience, albeit limited, most women don't want a guy to pound away. Those that do generally are not my type. I imagine my problem might be psychological as well. I am scheduled for a doppler ultrasound in a few weeks prior to my appointment so hopefully that can provide more definitive answers. I do worry a lot so maybe that has something to do with my situation.

I am a very light sleeper so I would probably notice. The last time I had a nocturnal erection was about 2 weeks ago. I also do not get spontaneous erections anymore. Again, that can be psychological.

At least I am still functional with stimulation so that's a positive and maybe it can be treated with medication. The reduction in pain has made my life easier at least.

Hi Jack

No black and blueness or anything of the like -- a new development however: there is now a dent just below the scar tissue that wasn't there before. It doesn't actually intersect with the bottom (part closer to the base) of the scar tissue but is a few fractions of an inch below. I am not sure if I should try to stretch out the dent before it becomes permanent or let the healing process take effect.

The tissue of the dent is not hard -- it has no nodules or anything (like the scar tissue above it). I am not sure what to make of it.

My urologist wrote back to me and just said to take an anti inflammatory, avoid any sexual activity, limit contact with the area, and try hot bath sitz and he thinks it will heal.

Sure hope he is write.

Do you have any recommendations on a good sexual function doctor?

Thanks for the help.

W

Quote from: jackp on November 24, 2009, 05:33:15 PM
W

Any sign of a bruise, black or blue spot? Any sign of a bulge like a punctured vein or artery?

IMHO you need to get to a good Male Sexual Function doctor ASAP.

Jackp

Hi Chiguy

Thanks for the word of encouragement. I certainly hope you it works out that way... I know that massage is supposed to be good for scar tissue any where else i the body.

have a great thanks giving.

W

Quote from: chiguy on November 24, 2009, 05:40:31 PM
On a positive note for our friend, maybe the healthy tissue is going to rebuild itself. Assuming you separated the scar tissue from the bad tissue, won't the tissue enhance itself? Perhaps this is the natural healing process. Figure, if you have hard tissue on your arm for example, and you constantly stretch it, the scar tissue will eventually break away. You will feel pain or numbness for a while and then will presumably have full use again.

Just a thought.

Well at least I am not likely to be doing any nerve damage, hopefully it will just get better in the next week or so.

So far no improvement however....

Hope you are well.

W

Quote from: lwillisjr on November 24, 2009, 07:52:30 PM

Quote from: wf on November 24, 2009, 03:21:59 PM
My sexual function seems to be completely gone now. I can get a partial erection with some effort but the instant I let go of it it just collapses to the left. Very concerning. Not any better after a day and a half rest.

wf,
There is a bundle of nerves that runs right along the top of the penis from the base to the glans. If you were massaging on each side then I would assume the nerves are OK. But definitely something is different since you notices such a dramatic difference in your ability to acheive an erection. I think I agree with jackp that you need to get to someone and get it checked out.

chiguy,
"You will feel pain or numbness for a while and then will presumably have full use again."

When it comes to my penis I've learned not to "presume" anything ;-)

Hi All

I have recovered minorly in the last day so hopefuly what ever I did to my self is on the mend.

I have a theory as well -- perhaps all the trauma on the scar tissue pulled the tissue below it and created a tear which lead to the problems I am experiencing, then the scar tissue perhaps scared over a bit leading to the new dent I found. Thats the best idea I have at the moment.

Does any one know of any way I could try to stop the scar tissue forming as the damage heals with out also retarding the healing process? I am using vitamin e but there may be more I could do...

Thanks again for every ones advice on the matter.

W

Quote from: wf on November 24, 2009, 10:30:09 PM
Hi Jack

No black and blueness or anything of the like -- a new development however: there is now a dent just below the scar tissue that wasn't there before. It doesn't actually intersect with the bottom (part closer to the base) of the scar tissue but is a few fractions of an inch below. I am not sure if I should try to stretch out the dent before it becomes permanent or let the healing process take effect.

The tissue of the dent is not hard -- it has no nodules or anything (like the scar tissue above it). I am not sure what to make of it.

My urologist wrote back to me and just said to take an anti inflammatory, avoid any sexual activity, limit contact with the area, and try hot bath sitz and he thinks it will heal.

Sure hope he is write.

Do you have any recommendations on a good sexual function doctor?

Thanks for the help.

W

Quote from: jackp on November 24, 2009, 05:33:15 PM
W

Any sign of a bruise, black or blue spot? Any sign of a bulge like a punctured vein or artery?

IMHO you need to get to a good Male Sexual Function doctor ASAP.

Jackp

Hey guys,

THis website ; http://www.peyronies-disease-help.com/index.html , some no doubt are familiar with, is selling a video demonstrating how one can apply stretching to the penis fibroid using massage type motions to manually stretch the fibroid--not the whole penis, the website host says, just the fibroid.  I have not bawt the video, at $50, but I infer various twisting and pullings are involved. Anyone have knowledge or experience with this idea? 

Ironman

Looks like another way to get in your wallet.

Jackp

The website claims:

"Serious Peyronie's research proves that no mechanical penis enlargement device permanently helps Peyronie's symptoms or is a valid Peyronie's treatment. "

The opposite is true. The Fastsize brand has been documented in a controlled trial to help reduce the bend. (we think here that most any brand can do it too).

Tim

Quote from: Tim468 on December 03, 2009, 06:52:08 PM
The website claims:

"Serious Peyronie's research proves that no mechanical penis enlargement device permanently helps Peyronie's symptoms or is a valid Peyronie's treatment. "

The opposite is true. The Fastsize brand has been documented in a controlled trial to help reduce the bend. (we think here that most any brand can do it too).

Tim

wow, what an incredible claim.  it is more than just claiming no scientific evidence shows that a mechanical device permanently helps....it actually claims that "serious research" proves such a device does not work...wow.  I guess they're distinguishing a human finger from a mechanical device in regards to their bogus claim.

very reckless.  I'd stay far away.

However, one thing said on the website makes sense, that just the scar tissue is massaged--isolated--with these "techniques", and thus stretched. The penis as a whole is not. One must be very careful to to make it worse, it goes without saying.

This leads (me anyway) to a question about Fastsize et al devices--does any (touted) effectiveness result from merely providing more erect penis length, sort of giving an erection having more healthy flesh area to "work with", allowing an erection to sorta "side-step" the scar(s)--OR does the device (Fastsize) actually stretch and break up the fibroid? I think the best thing would be for the scar to be broken up at least a little to allow blood to flow into it--otherwise how could any supplements, oral, have any effect? And how could dead (scar) tissue be carried away? If you want water to erode a brick wall you mite first chip away at it here and there ...

Quote from: Ironman on December 10, 2009, 11:43:17 AM
I think the best thing would be for the scar to be broken up at least a little to allow blood to flow into it--otherwise how could any supplements, oral, have any effect? And how could dead (scar) tissue be carried away? If you want water to erode a brick wall you mite first chip away at it here and there ...

It doesn't work that way. You can't "break up" scar tissue with a massage because the collagen fibers have replaced healthy tunica. That's why certain surgeries for Peyronie's involve grafting, because they have to remove the scar tissue and replace it with something. Scar tissue isn't dead; fibroblasts, the cells which make collagen for scar tissue, depend on oxygen and thus need blood flow. Pentox helps red blood cells become "squishy" and thins the blood so it can flow into the small vessels in the scar tissue. That's why the medication works (though to a limited extent).

Harsh manipulation of an already damaged penis is a bad idea. This is another one of those situations where if it did work, we would already have heard about it and either Dr. Lue or Dr. Levine would have published something on it. This $50.00 "Peyronie's disease help" video is a scam.

-Skjald

As the topic says really - cant find too much on this question so apologies if its ben answered a thousand times.

Can massage to the calcified area worsen the bend by causing nore scarring?

Or can gentle massage increase blood flow and reduce the scarring?

Massaging in Vit e oil?

Any comments most welcome.

R x

Hi Rachel,

I have not seen anything regarding massage being an effective treatment. Topical Vit E has also not been proven effective. From what I have seen on this forum, traction and VED seem to be the most effective ways of physically manipulating the organ back into shape. These treatments are not always 100% effective but some members have reported limited success with dedicated use.

Also, unless your partner has had Peyronie's for a very long time, their scar tissue may not be calcified. Calcification is a process that takes years. One thing that can help prevent and, in some cases, reduce calcification is pentox. Just an FYI.

-Skjald

I think that there is good evidence that soft calcification can be greatly helped, and perhaps reversed, by vitamin k2-mk4. Here's a thorough discussion (http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/03/latest-study-on-vitamin-k-and-coronary.html). I like the Thorne drops (http://www.iherb.com/Vitamin-K2-1-fl-oz-30-ml/21592?at=1) (iHerb is out; I got mine from amazon).

i don't know for sure but I did do those exercise for enlarging the  penis and the massage parlor and both or one may be the cause of Peyronies   Disease on the left side

Hi WF...
Any updates on your condition?  I was recently diagnosed and am going through the same routine right now that you were going through - looking at all possible solutions.  I have thought about trying the stretching route as well.  In fact, the doctor that diagnosed gave me a pamphlet of a device that one urologist spoke about having promise at the last conference one of his colleagues attended.  I was hoping that the manual stretching / massage option was working for you to avoid the expense of a stretching mechanism.

One thing that I wanted to mention to you because I had not seen any reference to it in the previous posts is the importance of warming your penis and pelvic area prior to stretching.  Everything that I read has indicated that it is important to warm the area to get the blood flowing and relax the tissues prior to stretching or massage.

One question that I had after reading some of the posts was if any of you that experienced the loss of erection or sensitivity had tried prostate massage?  After what I had researched today, I'm wondering if that may hold the key to recovery after a vigorous massage to get all the toxins out of your system more quickly?

I have way too many questions and am confused, concerned, frustrated, and depressed.  Any updates - suggestions - feedback would be helpful!

Thanks guys!

Diagnosed 4 years ago with this disease. Urologist took the wait and see approach for the first year and nothing improved. Slight increase in bend showed up. Of course the length and girth has been affected a great deal. I have been taking L-arginine for the last three years and this has produced great nocturnal erections, but really no effect on the condition itself. I have looked into traction devices but before I take the plunge into purchasing one of these constricting devices, I thought I would try the manual stretching exercises recommended for penile growth. Has anyone diligently stuck with a program such as this for any extended amount of time? Reports have shown this technique to have some positive improvement in length and girth, but will it help in reducing the plaque that is the cause of my current condition? Any insights will be helpful. Just a couple of more things that I am battling. Type 2 diabetes and ED. The doc seems to think that the Diabetes is more to blame for the ED than the Peyronies although they could go hand in hand. I have taken Cialis a few times with limited success but will continue to utilize this drug as needed. I am very fortunate to have an understanding wife that has accepted this condition for what it is. If we can improve on it that's great but if not, to her it is not the end of the world. I keep telling her it's a guy thing and screwing around with our manhood can be very devastating if we allow it to be.
Thanks for any help.
Rick

Nates

Mt peyronies started in 1995. The urologist then put me on Vitiaman E 400IU 3 times a day and Potaba. I was lucky after about 18 months the curve went a way but I lost 1.5" in length and a lot of girth.

I tried manual stretching and exercise for a long time. It did not help. After heart stents in 2006 my urologist at the time put me on a VED. Poor instructions and I hurt myself. Then I found this forum and Old Man and finally got the VED exercise right. It helped bring back my penile length and girth.

My ED continued to get worse and nothing else helped. All the side effects of peyronies, venous leakage and corporal fibrous took a toll on me. After a failed implant by a local doctor I finally went to Vanderbilt for my penile implant.

My point is that the manual stretching did not help in my case. The VED helped with a better than expected penile implant outcome.

Go to the VED thread and read up on its use. I have posted a single cylinder exercise I used. For more details read My History. Questions just send me a PM or email.

Jackp

Be extremely careful with manual stretching. A lot of people suspect they received their peyronie's from improper manual stretching. There is a lot of bs on the web about manual stretching. I think the traction device is a much better route.

Thanks guys for the input. Sounds like I could have been wasting a lot of time with disappointing results. The exercises could work for some, but if they were that successful, wouldn't everyone be doing them? I'll look into your suggestions as the voice of experience is always welcomed.
Rick

HI guys, new to the site but trying to pass on something that has worked for me. I have had this illness for about 2 years. My situation started as severe bending to the left with no real loss in length. It progressed by straighting out but leaving me with a loss of length and hardness. I'd say about 1/4 shorter and of course less sensitivity. There is also a slight bending downward.Yes I have tried a bunch of things with nothing working until I tried this on my own.

Im my situation, I have hardning of the corpora cavernosa, the spongy tubes that run on either side of the urethra. Just stretching the penis does not work, at least for me. What I did was to manually stretch the corpora cavernosa exclusively and this has had a dramatic effect on my situation. Not perfect mind you, but vastly different..and it's only been a month. I'm hoping for even better results with time.

What I have done is to first take a hot shower. It relaxes the area and makes the process more effective. I next curve the penis upward, like a "C" by grabbing the head with one hand and using the other as a pivot point. I then massage the cavernosa fairly firmly by running my hand up and down it's length. I keep a fairly high pressure on the "C" shape. After about 100 "strokes", I move to the opposite side. Keep in mind that you are trying to break up the scar tissue on the cavernosa. It's a little uncomfortable but not at all painful. You will probably experience some, but very liitle, discomfort the first few times even after you are done.I then finish by stretching the gland by the head far left, far right, down, upward and straight out for about 10 seconds at each position. I do this regimen 2x a day. In the morning and before bed.

I just reasoned that this was the area causing the problem and that through direct massage on the scarring, it can be broken up. I'd say that my progess has placed me at about a near 90% recovery. Pretty good considering I was having some difficulty with intercourse and of couse some loss of feeling. Now things aren't too bad. If I do not get any better, I'd say I can live with my current situation.

Give it a try, and good luck to you

Quote from: MeToo on December 01, 2010, 06:30:49 PM
HI guys, new to the site but trying to pass on something that has worked for me. I have had this illness for about 2 years. My situation started as severe bending to the left with no real loss in length. It progressed by straighting out but leaving me with a loss of length and hardness. I'd say about 1/4 shorter and of course less sensitivity. There is also a slight bending downward.Yes I have tried a bunch of things with nothing working until I tried this on my own.

Im my situation, I have hardning of the corpora cavernosa, the spongy tubes that run on either side of the urethra. Just stretching the penis does not work, at least for me. What I did was to manually stretch the corpora cavernosa exclusively and this has had a dramatic effect on my situation. Not perfect mind you, but vastly different..and it's only been a month. I'm hoping for even better results with time.

What I have done is to first take a hot shower. It relaxes the area and makes the process more effective. I next curve the penis upward, like a "C" by grabbing the head with one hand and using the other as a pivot point. I then massage the cavernosa fairly firmly by running my hand up and down it's length. I keep a fairly high pressure on the "C" shape. After about 100 "strokes", I move to the opposite side. Keep in mind that you are trying to break up the scar tissue on the cavernosa. It's a little uncomfortable but not at all painful. You will probably experience some, but very liitle, discomfort the first few times even after you are done.I then finish by stretching the gland by the head far left, far right, down, upward and straight out for about 10 seconds at each position. I do this regimen 2x a day. In the morning and before bed.

I just reasoned that this was the area causing the problem and that through direct massage on the scarring, it can be broken up. I'd say that my progess has placed me at about a near 90% recovery. Pretty good considering I was having some difficulty with intercourse and of couse some loss of feeling. Now things aren't too bad. If I do not get any better, I'd say I can live with my current situation.

Give it a try, and good luck to you

Good stuff, sounds like a nice little penis workout. How did you come across this routine? You make it up yourself?

I've been doing some occasional manual stretching over the last month or so. Basically I gently pull the head of the penis. I'm hoping that if this becomes a habit of sort, it will be in effect a less time consuming version of traction. I occasionally do traction too, but at present it's difficult to find time to do that. Next year I might be more proactive in that regard.

NewGuy,
I tried that and I have to say that had no effect at all, at least for me. I'd try massaging the problem directly while curving your penis. This will help stretch the hardend area. It worked pretty well for me and I felt obligated to pass this on in hopes it will work for others. I don't expect that this will help everyone or to the same degree by any means. But if someone gets some relief that's good. I think that this would have to be a regimen for life though. I think if you stop, it'll be a problem again.

Quote from: MeToo on December 04, 2010, 01:23:07 PM
NewGuy,
I tried that and I have to say that had no effect at all, at least for me. I'd try massaging the problem directly while curving your penis. This will help stretch the hardend area. It worked pretty well for me and I felt obligated to pass this on in hopes it will work for others. I don't expect that this will help everyone or to the same degree by any means. But if someone gets some relief that's good. I think that this would have to be a regimen for life though. I think if you stop, it'll be a problem again.

All input here is valued, and I certainly think it was worth posting here to tell people about your thoughts. As with any suggestion if others give it a go and it is useful a momentum of sorts might occur. There's definitely good scope for physical/mechinal treatm,ents such as ved/traction/manual exercises in addition to the oral ones. Of course though, people as always have to be careful and listen to their body.

I believe a mechanical device will be needed to apply constant even pressure, whether its the VED or stretching device.  I don't believe massaging and or stretching with your hands is enough.  Some porn stars promote jelqing techniques and even sell it on their websites.  I tried it years ago to correct my curve and it did nothing.  The VED if you have the time and patience per day is one of my favorites cause it gives an even stretch and actually works.

Comebackid

I don't know if this will work for Peyronies Disease patients but the results of these techniques on normal penile anatomy are pretty astounding - if you believe the posters on these boards like "PEgym" and stuff.  They have increased their length and girth by a LOT...though all those exercises on their sites...some of which include curve reduction exercise.  it's pretty hard to believe but - i dont think there would be a website of 100s of people lying about their progress.  And, I think there are 3 or 4 penis enlargement boards out there.  These techniques work - but probably not too well in someone with Peyronies Disease - and if done wrong, could cause more trauma and worsen Peyronies Disease potentially.  I'd just stick to the VED or fastsize... though I've read some of their things... there is a lot of less traumatic stuff they do (like just stretching & pulling with the hands in the semi-erect state) that might do something - given all the guys on those sites who say it works... though not sure about doing it with Peyronies Disease.

The thing about their exercises that differs from the VED or traction is that you do it semi-erect... so there's more blood to encourage penile growth / bend correction.  The VED & traction can't be done semi-erect... the VED gives you an erection though i guess...it's not like a typical erection.

Mike,

When you use the VED and let the air go your penis shrinks down to a semi erect state, then you pump it up, at least thats the way your supposed to do it.  Whatever works the individual should use, I just think my point is that different things seem to help different individuals. 

As for those websites, remember they are claming jelqing can increase size is healthy normal penises.  I don't buy this for one second, all it will do is temporarily bring blood flow and temporary increase in size to the penis.  The reason the VED and fastsize work is because our tissues are damaged and shrunken and we are stretching them out. I've seen on some of these sites they say the penis muscle is like an arm muscle and jelqing is like lifting weights, as the muscle is broken down, it builds back up bigger, this is simply not true.  We don't really know how many people pay for these sites, only the administrators of them would know that.  I just don't have a lot of faith in them, but if you do go for it and let us know how it works out for you.

Comebackid

Mike -

I should warn you that many jelquing exercises can actually cause Peyronie's if done too rigorously. I have seen many online forms (outside of this) where men have developed Peyronies Disease as a direct result of performing this exercise. Use caution if you choose this route. It is likely that these unfortunate few did it too frequently and too aggressively, but keep this in mind.

For what it is worth, I think a very gentle jelq or massage or whatever you want to call it might actually help. The problems comes from  vigorous stretching and pulling causing trauma. The challenge is that improvement comes very slowly and sometimes we are impatient and do too much in hopes of a faster recovery.

Quote from: ComeBacKid on December 28, 2010, 06:06:44 PM
Mike,

When you use the VED and let the air go your penis shrinks down to a semi erect state, then you pump it up, at least thats the way your supposed to do it.  Whatever works the individual should use, I just think my point is that different things seem to help different individuals.  

As for those websites, remember they are claming jelqing can increase size is healthy normal penises.  I don't buy this for one second, all it will do is temporarily bring blood flow and temporary increase in size to the penis.  The reason the VED and fastsize work is because our tissues are damaged and shrunken and we are stretching them out. I've seen on some of these sites they say the penis muscle is like an arm muscle and jelqing is like lifting weights, as the muscle is broken down, it builds back up bigger, this is simply not true.  We don't really know how many people pay for these sites, only the administrators of them would know that.  I just don't have a lot of faith in them, but if you do go for it and let us know how it works out for you.

Comebackid

Oh it's supposed to be semi-erect? I guess when I'm done I'd say it's a "large flaccid" - actually... definitely bigger than normal flaccid...but not hard though.

I don't mean to sound like I am suggesting anyone to do those things on the PE websites...really, I am just sort of astounded that so many guys claim to have 8" penises with 6" girth who started at like 6 x 4.5 or something.  It takes them years - but apparently this happens... and their posts go on for years and they literally report growth over time by 1/4 here and there - over many years.  Nothing is really being sold... so I don't question the motivation too much - though there might be some ads - they're not really pushing any products per se... except 1 site has this "penis enlargement coach" thing so yeah - that's maybe questionable.

I do not buy the "muscle" argument at all either...there are few muscle fibers in the penis.  Here's what I think basically... I think I lost a lot of size (before the curve set in) due to loss of nighttime erections, extremely low sex drive (maybe 1 erection per week), and things like that.  So, I thought maybe some of the more simple exercises would be the exact opposite of what caused me to get to the state I'm in.  Like, every day I have to get a semi-erection for 10 minutes and just do  pull gently or something... definitely not "clamping" and some of the extreme stuff.   But I think I lost size over 2 years due to a lack of any blood flow so perhaps one way (or could just be wishful thinking) would be to get more blood flow back.  I was taking viagra and cialis on and off for better blood flow to the area, but w/o any exercise to go with it - I wonder if it is effective.

For example, you can take all the supplements in the world but if you don't actually go to the gym (in their case, do the PE exercises) it won't do anything.  You can be on steroids - but watching tv all day won't get you muscular.  So, I think (if I weren't in the xiaflex trial) Pentox + Cialis Plus exercises (VED, Traction, and maybe very mild PE stretches) would be beneficial...at least it's open for discussion.  I'd never ever do the extreme stuff though.  That would be the same as pumping too hard or putting too many bars on fastsize, etc...(though levine wants people to increase by 1 small increment every 2 weeks, it's way too hard to do that in my case... i think another poster had more success)

By the way, the Xiaflex trial asks us to do a minor stretch 3x a day for 30 seconds...and the doctor does this as well the day after the 2nd shot (they call it "modeling" and really it's like 3 minutes of bending the flaccid penis a little bit)  nothing like the JelQ stuff, but it's interesting they ask us to do this.  And, they even ask us to push against the curve if we get a spontaneous erection - but not enough to cause pain.  

Mike,

Yes when your done pumping a full erection your penis won't go totally flaccid it will be in a semi erect stage, but if you wait long enough it could go flaccid.  Remember , because your pumping, its going to be a little larger than normal anyway.  I don't think its really supposed to be "anything" in particular, it will be different for everyone, depending on things like venous leakage, how long you wait etc....  Your supposed to let it go down to close to flaccid, but this will be like a semi erection for some, or something in between the two.

I know for a fact on some of those sites it is one person acting like he is many, I ran into this when I was viewing one of those sites and caught the guy red handed, he was also the administrator, the owner etc...  He could get on different screenames at once and say they were seeing huge gains from these exercises.

I think the loss of size comes from the damaged tissue contracting like a normal scar would, this is the body's normal reaction.  Also lack of erections that are full and solid lead to slow deteriation of the healthy tissues.  My therapist had bladder cancer, when in and had a successful surgery.  Lost all erections, then months later was diagnosed with peyronies disease, almost 100% due to lack of erections, it just can't be proven scientifically.  Massaging multiple daily erections certainly can't hurt, or masturbation, its actually theraputic and really needs to be done, or your penis will amost certainly worsen, shrink, and harden, I've learned this the hard way.  I will say pentox clearly helped me gain back size, gain full solid erections, more frequent erections, softening of the penis plaque etc....  The VED helps to for those that can't stimulate an erection.  Will penis massage hurt, no probably not as long as its done softly, but massaging a full erection would be better.

I used to do the jelqing and massaging with my hands and it didn't do anything, my penis would always go back to its bent flaccid position.  The VED gives a full symetrical complete stretch, thats why I like it, it fills up the penis from the inside out by pulling in blood and stretches it evenly, I think its a simple yet incredibly effective tool. I bought mine from Augusta Systems, and have been happy with the quality, but we have instructions on here how to make your own to, so you can do it cheaply if you don't have a lot of cash, Angus built his own and has created a nice thread on how to do it instructions.

Comebackid

Thanks for the great post and I liked the discusion going on here. I will prefer X4Labs extender which increase your penis size both in girth and length. This device is very effective and good worth of you money. It is very comfortable to be used.
Modified by moderator

Have been using the VED now for about a two month period. Religously following the suggested protocol by the guys on this forum. I have seen some change in shape after these initial two months of excersizing. No definitive measurements taken as of yet, but I do know where I was at when I started this VED program. I'll update when I can or when I have any significant events. ED still present but my last try at Cialis actually provided me with a functioning erection. I'll keep pressing on, doing the VED stuff-taking my L-arginine and researching new remedies.

nates:

Don't forget that the VED can and will provide you with one of the best erections you ever had by using the restrictor ring or rings if two are needed.

If you can get a natural erection using the "pills" OK, but you might wind up relying on them as a crutch for a while. Some guys have a problem of leaning on them for help, etc.

Old Man

Thanks for the advice Old Man. All of your guy's experience will certainly keep from attempting to reinvent the wheel. I haven't tried the restrictor rings yet, but will give them a whirl. I'm not really sold on the pills as so far they have been hit or miss. I'm taking the largest dose available and if they don't do the job sometimes, I can live with that. Unless the Doc recommends a double dose, no way I'm going there. More concerned with achieving penile health than sexual performance. Although they might go hand in hand (no pun intended) I'm on the down side of sexual activity. If I can remedy one and the other happens great.

I've been using the VED now for approx. two months with a slight improvement in curvature. I'm only using the cylinder that came with the VED.(too large) I will be taking the "Old Man's" advice and ordering the two other cylinders that will allow me to follow the protocol that has been established by many. Even though I have had a head start utilizing only the one cylinder, I plan on starting the entire process over when I receive the other two cylinders. Still taking the L-Arginine (2,000 units daily) and the vitamin E that is in the multiple vitamin taken daily. Don't know how effective the E is and will maybe look into a larger supplement. The recent low dose Cialis experiment intrigued me, and I will chat with the Doc for his input on the subject. No apparent side effects and the results seemed very positive. My Doc says that my ED is most likely more effected by my type 2 diabetes than that of the Peyronies disease. If the low dose Cialis helps, as the test results indicate, but doesn't do anything for erections, I guess I can live with that.
I'll post again when I have started the three cylinder protocol and relay results.

Quote from: nates on March 23, 2011, 08:55:50 AM
I've been using the VED now for approx. two months with a slight improvement in curvature. I'm only using the cylinder that came with the VED.(too large) I will be taking the "Old Man's" advice and ordering the two other cylinders that will allow me to follow the protocol that has been established by many. Even though I have had a head start utilizing only the one cylinder, I plan on starting the entire process over when I receive the other two cylinders. Still taking the L-Arginine (2,000 units daily) and the vitamin E that is in the multiple vitamin taken daily. Don't know how effective the E is and will maybe look into a larger supplement. The recent low dose Cialis experiment intrigued me, and I will chat with the Doc for his input on the subject. No apparent side effects and the results seemed very positive. My Doc says that my ED is most likely more effected by my type 2 diabetes than that of the Peyronies disease. If the low dose Cialis helps, as the test results indicate, but doesn't do anything for erections, I guess I can live with that.
I'll post again when I have started the three cylinder protocol and relay results.

Check the posts on vitamin E.  I believe Dr. Lue stated that from his research it did more harm than good.....Fred

Quote from: Skjaldborg on December 10, 2009, 12:41:08 PM

Quote from: Ironman on December 10, 2009, 11:43:17 AM
I think the best thing would be for the scar to be broken up at least a little to allow blood to flow into it--otherwise how could any supplements, oral, have any effect? And how could dead (scar) tissue be carried away? If you want water to erode a brick wall you mite first chip away at it here and there ...

It doesn't work that way. You can't "break up" scar tissue with a massage because the collagen fibers have replaced healthy tunica. That's why certain surgeries for Peyronie's involve grafting, because they have to remove the scar tissue and replace it with something. Scar tissue isn't dead; fibroblasts, the cells which make collagen for scar tissue, depend on oxygen and thus need blood flow. Pentox helps red blood cells become "squishy" and thins the blood so it can flow into the small vessels in the scar tissue. That's why the medication works (though to a limited extent).

Harsh manipulation of an already damaged penis is a bad idea. This is another one of those situations where if it did work, we would already have heard about it and either Dr. Lue or Dr. Levine would have published something on it. This $50.00 "Peyronie's disease help" video is a scam.

-Skjald

Well I bought the video, have followed it inconsistently.  Harsh manipulation?  WTF are you talking about?  As I have watched it and you haven't I feel qualified to comment.  Some things just appeal to your common sense, like don't run with scissors, look before you cross the road etc.  The video has a few of those that appealed to me.  I won't be using Fastsize but some gentle MANipulation instead while helping with oral treaments.  Scar tissue will not get stretched with a mechanical device, marbles in a sock, peanuts in icecream, the soft tissue will, however. 

Anyway, have your own opinion as I have mine, but calling the video a scam is presumptuous, possibly wrong.

first reply since March and here's the update. Have not purchased the smaller two cylinders and have only been using the larger tube. I have seen some improvement in the curvature. I do admit that I have wavered from religiously following the routine and have missed days regularly. With the improvement I have seen, it's time to purchase the A and B tubes and really stick to the protocol. No length or girth improvement at this time. ED is still prevalent. Although I can obtain and erection, the longevity is always short lived. Cialis does help but only as a crutch. Looking into Pentox as another helpful treatment.
Rick

Nate's

Ed is no joke it means a mayjor cardiac occurrence in 2 to 5;years. Mine is comming soon and I have out lived the first one. Men in between 40 and 50 have to listen to this warning.Loosing your Hardon means something is comming  soon.I will be seeing my cardiologist soon

Fubar

have had very good results so far massaging the scar tissue spots while flacid, stretching with on hand and then doing what ev with the other a lot of kinda quick little pinches. ur fingers dont slide over skin so it doesnt hurt like it sounds. one spot under my late circumsision scar is kinda a pain to get at tho as that skin does get tender.the peyronies isnt from that procedure.

Massage stretching is a scam obviously and stupid its like people that say hanging weights to an erected penis will make it bigger.

Exactly where is the area located that you were massaging and this small piece of scar tissue "broke off". Top, left or right side, bottom, etc.

Well I bought the video, have followed it inconsistently.  Harsh manipulation?  WTF are you talking about?  As I have watched it and you haven't I feel qualified to comment.  Some things just appeal to your common sense, like don't run with scissors, look before you cross the road etc.  The video has a few of those that appealed to me.  I won't be using Fastsize but some gentle MANipulation instead while helping with oral treaments.  Scar tissue will not get stretched with a mechanical device, marbles in a sock, peanuts in icecream, the soft tissue will, however. 

Anyway, have your own opinion as I have mine, but calling the video a scam is presumptuous, possibly wrong.
[/quote]

Can you tell us more please about this video? Do you think it is worth the price? thanks.

loveletters

I don't know the video you are talking about so I can't tell you if it worth the price.
In any case, this topic have a lot of posts related to stretching, so you can go true and see what other people opinion is regarding penis massage - stretching.

You didn't mention in your post, do you have Peyronies?

James

Quote from: james1947 on July 30, 2012, 08:56:46 AM
loveletters

I don't know the video you are talking about so I can't tell you if it worth the price.
In any case, this topic have a lot of posts related to stretching, so you can go true and see what other people opinion is regarding penis massage - stretching.

You didn't mention in your post, do you have Peyronies?

James

Yes, I have Peyronies Disease. Compared to what many others seem to be going through, mine is not a terribly serious case, but bad enough for me to want to do something about it. My question was for Sangha who posted earlier, and who had purchased the manual stretching instruction video from Dr Herazy's web site. I was just wondering if he thought it was worth the rather hefty price. In any case, manual stretching seemed more appealing to me, rather than traction devices and VEDs which seem too rough to me.

Many of our forum members (including me) used and using VED and traction devices with no problems.
Like with everything in life, have to be carefull.
I would like also tho hear Sangha opinion, hope he will post on the subject.

James

Quote from: loveletters on July 30, 2012, 09:56:12 AM

I was just wondering if he thought it was worth the rather hefty price. In any case, manual stretching seemed more appealing to me, rather than traction devices and VEDs which seem too rough to me.

James is correct in that VED and traction therapy is to be used cautiously. If used correctly it is not "too rough" and has been proven effective for many members on the forum.

It seems that gentle stretching would help just like it helps with tendonitis or a muscle pull. 

Has anyone had any improvement with manual stretching alone? 

IF you are doing an array of things together like VED, oral therapies etc. it is hard to know what is contributing to any improvements.

The overwhelming opinion that I have observed on this board over the past year is, those  people selling soulutions on line are opportunitst with a concept and not a proven process.   If anyone of them had consistent and meaningfull success, it would be going around the world right now at light speed.

How come none of those people are members of this board.  I know some have been invited to join.

My feeling is that manual stretching may be able to help in some cases. I've got no proof of this, other than an acknowledgement that stretching via traction and VED can help those with and without peyronie's. I would say though that as with any strategy there's always a down side. It could be hard to measure the force being exerted by manual stretching for instance, which could result in injury. Whatever approach is taken, it's important to be careful because those with peyronie's are often more susceptible to injury than the average man.

I think that with this disease, a combination of a few therapies is what is helping.
Each therapy contributes to the final result, in my opinion not the % is important, the final result is.
Regarding people selling solutions, they are indeed opportunists trying to exploit the desperation of the people not finding a solution for they health problems and not just Peyronies. They are not members on this board because it will harm they business!!!

James

I think you're right James, that it's a combined approach that often works. I especially feel that this is true for those who are very recent to the condition in the active stage. It drives me mad how often these men are told to "wait and see" when they could get going on pentox, coq10, ved and so no.

Unfortunately it was my own fault not doing nothing for the first three years.
It was after more than one year reading this forum and when my situation get really bad (and maybe irreversible) that I have started treatment.
I hope others, from reading this forum and asking questions will not be stupid as I was!!!

Regarding stretching, I think it may work for some people, as when I was living in Thailand I was treated with stretching and massage for a few probelms with big success. It just have to be done by a person that is really specialised and not a regular massage.

James

I have had my problem for years and which I didn't do anything for a long time and my pain went away and my penis straighten quite a bit on its own. Cialis and pentox help greatly. This active phase for 18 months or if nothing happens is wrong. Peyronies disease as they call it is active all the time and changes and I believe surgery isn't a way to resolve this problem as most urologists say.

Noway,

Some of the world's leading Peyronies urologists, like Dr. Lue, would disagree with your point about the duration of the active phase of the disease. Quite frankly, they are much more knowledgable than you are. On what do you base your opinion? Personal experience? That's hardly a useful sample size.

Skjaldborg

Noway,

In terms of straightening the penis, surgery can do it but it's a final option and there are some very possible downsides.

In terms of the ED aspect, surgery can rarely help. According to Dr. Lue, Pentox, VED, and possibly testosterone are the key to remodeling the scar tissue responsible for the ED.

Quote from: MattFoley on April 04, 2013, 06:03:06 PM
In terms of the ED aspect, surgery can rarely help.

You mean implants rarely work?  What are you talking about.  It has a higher satisfaction rate than almost any treatment discussed on the forum.

I have a shrinkage problem like i get an erection and it shrinks if i touch it for a bit so im not sure if its the ed or the scar causing the problem.

Why do i and alot of people have pain after 18 months why is one day my penis straight as an arrow then the next day its crooked it changes and im way past this 18 months.

You mean some days when you have a full erection it is straight and some days a full erection is crooked?  If so, how crooked?

I get either a downwards curve or a curve to the left. Mostly i get the curve to the left when im fully erect ive never done any measurements though. When im like semi hard or flaccid hard i get the banana shape bend or it sharply bends down like more 90 degrees which hasnt happen recently since on pentox. I also have the problem where my penis when hard shrinks after touching it for a bit. Its extremely annoying and frustrating.

Flaccid or semi-erect curve means nothing.  Forget it. 

You can only compare a fully erect penis to a fully erect penis.  Also, I am beyond astounded when you tell me you have been around as long as you have been and you have never even taken any measurements.  I don't even begin to understand that.  Establishing a baseline is one of the first things a new member should do.  You certainly need to focus on learning and doing the basics rather than on offering advice to others Noway.

you can tell if its getting better or not period i dont need to measure it. My doctor never measured it.

Noway, I'm sorry, but that is just plain non-sense.  Even a newbie should know better than that.  It might help if you review this article. MUST READ BEFORE YOU POST - Information for new members - Peyronies Society Forums (https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,3180.0.html)

In terms of massaging, james said that he would see a specialist in thailand to massage/stretch the penis..

why does it have to be a special type of massage and whats thi technique like? you're telling me that if i just massage the sides of my penis, gently of course, like i would massage any other part of my body (by just applying pressure and rubbing it rotationally) that im doing it incorrectly?

also.. in terms of manual stretching for uncircumcised individuals.. one person (norV) mentioned just pulling on the foreskin to stretch the ligaments instead of the whole penis.. therefore preventing injury. any uncircumcised people do this?

grotesquegnome

Thai classic massage is taken very seriously in Thailand.
The main school is in Watt Po in Bangkok.
It comprises 5 courses, you can check by the internet the duration and cost.
Even after years of experience, very few masseurs are making penis stretching for different penis health problems because it can cause damage if not done properly. Is completely different than stretching we are talking about.
I done it is the pass for urinary problems and it helped a lot.

James

Quote deleted by moderator - James.
This is the third time I have to moderate your posts from total of five as you are not obeying the forum rules.
Next one you will be muted!!!

How does vitamin E help? Also, does it go back once you stop?

WF -  my story is identical to yours!  I did the same thing and from my research we have what is called venous leakage causing ED.  There is a thread on the subject and I have posted my story there and other places if you want to look me up under members, you can see my previous posts.  Anyway,  I've had to resort to Stendra, similar to Viagra for younger guys, to obtain a rigid erection.  I have started using Hot hand packs (see the tread on that subject) and it has eliminated the dull pain I had.  I experience a 2.5 - 3 inch loss in penis length following the loss of getting a good erection.  I hope that does not happen to you.  I have been able to regain maybe 1/2 and inch using a VED is is better than nothing and I hope it will improve.  I'm seeing there is little hope on this subject and would really appreciate an update from you on what you are doing and if it's working?

I was a huge advocate of stretching, but apparently the penis can only take so much and I knew I had overdone it when it happened,  but I had not idea of the terrible consequences.  Like I said in another post,  why don't they warn you about  this in Sex Ed class?

Having said this, I have an appointment tomorrow with my Urologist for an ultrasound, which I'm not looking forward to.  I will ask her about this for sure!

Hey what ever happened? were you able to find any improvement? Did any of the supplements work?