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Peyronies Disease TREATMENT Discussion Boards => Alternative Treatments of Peyronie's Disease => Topic started by: slowandsteady on October 29, 2009, 07:50:11 PM

Title: CURCUMIN
Post by: slowandsteady on October 29, 2009, 07:50:11 PM
I'm going to try to consolidate some posts I've made in the past on curcumin, my favorite supplement for Peyronies Disease. Curcumin is my favorite because at a dosage of 1.2g it's the only thing I know of that can relieve pain for me in just an hour or two, with effects lasting 12 hours or more.



It turns out that curcumin, my all time most effective Peyronies Disease supplement, inhibits both type 1 and type 2 herpes according to this study (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2668156/).

Edit: by the way, my next supplement to try is red marine algae (http://www.iherb.com/Vibrant-Health-Gigartina-Red-Marine-Algae-250-mg-90-Veggie-Caps/4983?at=0).



Yep, I started taking curcumin to begin with because of how it lowers of cancer risk. In addition to its antiviral action, it's also a potent fibrosis blocker, so it's working for you on multiple levels.

It's very fat soluble and much more bioavailable in fat. Sources that complain about its poor bioavailability as a capsule are like people who drive their car into the water and complain that it doesn't work as well their boat. Dry vitamin D doesn't work that well either.

I mix curcumin in oil first and then pour the mixture into a beverage mixed with soy lecithin. I buy this bulk curcumin (http://www.easycart.net/BeyondACenturyInc./Herbals_C-E.html#8550) and take 1.2g in the morning.

In larger doses it can be an immunosuppressant. I thought its mechanism of action was a slight immunosuppression, but now I wonder if the antiviral aspects are more important.

Of course, I really don't know if Peyronies Disease is primarily viral in nature. I'm putting together an antiviral program, and I'll see how it compares to my former program. Fortunately, a lot of the interventions are the same, though I've stopped arginine and pycnogenol for this test and added lysine and quercetin for this test.



There is another avenue of action of curcumin that might be important in Peyronies Disease, but that doesn't seem to involve viruses. From this report (http://www.sexhealthmatters.org/v2/data/news/medical%20meeting%20report/mmr05.asp),

Quote
Kobylarz from the Mulhall laboratory at Cornell Medical Center isolated Peyronie's disease cells from human penises. They then looked at a special protein called p53. p53 is important to the life cycle of the cell because it helps tell the cell when it is permitted to die. p53 is normally located in the nucleus of the cell. But this group has found that in Peyronies Disease cells, p53 gets anchored in the cytoplasm of the cell and binds with another protein PARC. This effectively renders p53 non-functional. The overall effect is that the Peyronie's disease plaque cells multiply instead of dying, which leads to progression of Peyronies Disease. These data may lead in the future to the development of a drug treatment to turn on p53 and thus permit the Peyronie's disease cells to die preventing scar build up.

But, curcumin (and resveratrol) to the rescue. In the article Curcumin and resveratrol induce apoptosis and nuclear translocation and activation of p53 in human neuroblastoma (PMID 15161054):

Quote
RESULTS: Treatment induced a dose- and time-dependent decrease in cell viability, cell cycle arrest and induction of apoptosis. Treatment transiently up-regulated p53 expression and induced nuclear translocation of p53, followed by induction of p21(WAF-1/CIP-1) and Bax expression. CONCLUSION: Observations suggest that the cytotoxicity, cell cycle arrest and apoptosis induced by curcumin and resveratrol in NB cells may be mediated via functionally activated p53 and merit further study.

Curcumin was well tolerated in doses of 8g in a phase I study. Maybe more than 1.2g is called for.

s&s

edit: nuclear translocation of p53 is what healthy cells do when damaged to die (p53 goes to the cells' mitochondria and eventually leads to cell death). The Peyronies Disease cells are not healthy and don't die because the p53 is locked up. Perhaps curcumin restores p53 so that cells that need to die do die.

Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: Tim468 on October 29, 2009, 08:19:48 PM
Thanks, S&S.

Tim
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: Ashen on October 30, 2009, 07:54:08 AM
Good info.  Keep us updated.
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: Fred22 on October 31, 2009, 11:59:47 AM
I mix curcumin in oil first and then pour the mixture into a beverage mixed with soy lecithin. I buy this bulk curcumin (http://www.easycart.net/BeyondACenturyInc./Herbals_C-E.html#8550) and take 1.2g in the morning.

S&S,

Thanks for the information.  When I clicked on the link (this bulk curcumin), there were two there.  The powder and the"Best Curcumin w/Bioprene".  I assume you're using the powder?  How do you measure the 1.2g dosage.  Is coconut oil OK for mixing with the curcumin?

Fred
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: slowandsteady on October 31, 2009, 05:44:08 PM
Hi Fred. I use the one on the top, without bioperine. The label says 300 mg per 1/8 teaspoon, and I have a 1/4 teaspoon measure on hand. Coconut oil is fine; I did it that way this morning. I've also upped my dosage to 1.8 g.
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: Fred22 on November 02, 2009, 12:24:11 PM
Hi Fred. I use the one on the top, without bioperine. The label says 300 mg per 1/8 teaspoon, and I have a 1/4 teaspoon measure on hand. Coconut oil is fine; I did it that way this morning. I've also upped my dosage to 1.8 g.

Thanks for the info.  Think I'll order some and try it out.  I'll post results.

Fred
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: slowandsteady on November 02, 2009, 12:30:12 PM
Thanks for the info.  Think I'll order some and try it out.  I'll post results.

Fred
Thanks, please do. It will be nice to get some more feedback on curcumin taken with oil.
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: skunkworks on November 02, 2009, 11:31:53 PM
It would probably work if you chucked it in a bowl of cereal (with milk), or anything else with milk. Piece of toast thickly buttered.

Or in my case as I don't eat wheat, I could probably get away with putting it in bowl of stew.

What is the word on curcumin and heat? Does it lose anything?
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: slowandsteady on November 02, 2009, 11:43:17 PM
What is the word on curcumin and heat? Does it lose anything?

Actually it gains. ;) Heating it in hot water makes it 10x more water soluble.
Title: Topical curcumin
Post by: slowandsteady on November 12, 2009, 03:22:58 PM
Curcumin is quite a small molecule (368.39 Da) and so is a candidate for topical administration since small molecules are candidates for passing through the skin.

I see that there is a product called Psoria-Gold (http://psoriagold.com/site/):
Quote
In its pure form, curcumin is not absorbed through the skin. Psoria-Gold™ is a patented formulation that allows absorption of curcumin through the skin with efficacy.

It's quite pricey: Original Formula $89.95 / 2 OZ; Extra-Strength $119.95 / 0.5 OZ.

The PDF product description (http://psoriagold.com/site/download.php?d366aefeacfc701aafce0f24a7fce7fb&hashID=07ccc6a0660e1b5aaea2dfb822415099) says that curcumin "activates the 'switch off' mechanism to decrease phosphorylase kinase (PhK). The side effect's of the body's wound healing reaction to injury are reduced. The skin then returns to its normal state". Ingredients are Water, Isopropyl alcohol, aloe vera, carbomer, cellulose, curcumin, diazolinylurea, triethanolamine, EDTA. I'm surprised to find the heavy metal chelator EDTA in the ingredients list.

I see another cream (AC3 (http://www.agelesscures.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22&products_id=8&zenid=544e911f4006587817c6bfdf257855d6) max) for $24.75.

Unfortunately the Health Pro Labs line of creams, including the curcumin cream, seems to be discontinued. I do have their transdermal niacin cream, and I've started mixing some curcumin into that. Better yet might be DMSO and curcumin.
Title: Re: Topical curcumin
Post by: newguy on November 12, 2009, 11:08:14 PM

It's certainly something that's worth exploring.  Is the molecular weight of curcumin within the area that would allow it to be effective when used with DMSO? As for niacin cream... does it result in any local reaction at all? I take oral niacin and get the niacin flush, but I'm of the opinion that this is probably a good thing, so I go with it over the non flush options.
Title: Re: Topical curcumin
Post by: slowandsteady on November 12, 2009, 11:26:49 PM

It's certainly something that's worth exploring.  Is the molecular weight of curcumin within the area that would allow it to be effective when used with DMSO? As for niacin cream... does it result in any local reaction at all? I take oral niacin and get the niacin flush, but I'm of the opinion that this is probably a good thing, so I go with it over the non flush options.

Yes, under 500 Da is about what's needed for transdermal delivery. Naltrexone is only 341 Da by comparison, and it's quite available transdermally at a dose of 3mg. From this source (http://molinterv.aspetjournals.org/content/4/6/308.full):
Quote
Although the stratum corneum is an efficient barrier, some chemical substances are able to penetrate it and to reach the underlying tissues and blood vessels. These “successful” substances are characterized by low molecular weight (≤500 Da), lipophilicity, and effectiveness at low dosage. The largest daily dose of drug in patch form is that of nicotine: twenty-one milligrams

Nicotine is 162 Da.

Even though not more than a few milligrams would penetrate, it would penetrate where it's needed. I think mixing it with 70% DMSO has good potential. It stains a bit; ok, a lot. ;) I have no redness with the niacin cream, but I take a lot of niacin already.
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: Fred22 on November 13, 2009, 09:51:46 AM
Hi Fred. I use the one on the top, without bioperine. The label says 300 mg per 1/8 teaspoon, and I have a 1/4 teaspoon measure on hand. Coconut oil is fine; I did it that way this morning. I've also upped my dosage to 1.8 g.

S&S,

Just got my curcumin yesterday (two bottles of the powder).  I thought I had some coconut oil, but couldn't find it, so tried mixing with olive oil.  I added 3/4 tsp. curcumin to 1 tbsp. olive oil into a measuring cup.  I stirred for a long time but mixture was still grainy.  I tried adding this to hot water and stirred , but it still wouldn't dissolve.  I tried again, this time heating up the olive oil (1 tbsp. in a measuring cup) in the microwave for 45 seconds.  The curcumin dissolved a little better in the warm olive oil, but was still grainy.  I went ahead and drank this.  (Hope I haven't taken too much for my first dose)  I did some research on the net and found various oils that have been used by others.  It's supposed to mix readily in fish oil, flaxseed oil (both omega 3's so that's good for you), olive oil was also mentioned...also clarified butter and chocolate, I believe.  I'm thinking I may have reached a saturation point by using to little oil or too much curcumin to my mixture.  Can you tell me exactly how you prepare your mixture.  Do you heat up the oil?  How hot?  What proportion curcumin to oil?  Thanks.

Fred
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: slowandsteady on November 13, 2009, 11:00:20 AM
Can you tell me exactly how you prepare your mixture.  Do you heat up the oil?  How hot?  What proportion curcumin to oil?  Thanks.

Here's how I take curcumin: make a cup of coffee with lots of cream. Add a pinch soy lecithin as a surfactant. Add a heaping teaspoon of coconut oil. Put in two 1/4 teaspoons of curcumin powder. Stir, let sit, stir again and drink.

The grain size of the curcumin is large, so not all of it will dissolve. The solution is to take more or reduce the grain size. I just take more and it works for me. One could also take less by reducing the grain size (like with a mortar and pestle, coffee grinder, or premixing olive oil and curcumin in the blender).

s&s
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: Fred22 on November 13, 2009, 11:59:01 AM
Can you tell me exactly how you prepare your mixture.  Do you heat up the oil?  How hot?  What proportion curcumin to oil?  Thanks.

Here's how I take curcumin: make a cup of coffee with lots of cream. Add a pinch soy lecithin as a surfactant. Add a heaping teaspoon of coconut oil. Put in two 1/4 teaspoons of curcumin powder. Stir, let sit, stir again and drink.

The grain size of the curcumin is large, so not all of it will dissolve. The solution is to take more or reduce the grain size. I just take more and it works for me. One could also take less by reducing the grain size (like with a mortar and pestle, coffee grinder, or premixing olive oil and curcumin in the blender).

s&s

Thanks for the info.  Didn't you post earlier that you'd raised your dosage to 1.8g curcumin?  At 300 mg. per 1/8 teaspoon would't that be three 1/4 teaspoons?  I also just read on a curcumin blog that it mixed perfectly with butter.  Just bought some pure butter with olive oil.  I'll let you know how that works out.  Thanks again.

Fred
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: slowandsteady on November 13, 2009, 02:03:17 PM
Didn't you post earlier that you'd raised your dosage to 1.8g curcumin? 

I did. I'm trying to balance getting over a cold with keeping Peyronie's in check. I've backed off to 1/2 teaspoon (1.2g) or less. Even before I caught a cold, I found 1.2 g curcumin to be effective.
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: Fred22 on November 13, 2009, 03:47:05 PM
Didn't you post earlier that you'd raised your dosage to 1.8g curcumin? 

I did. I'm trying to balance getting over a cold with keeping Peyronie's in check. I've backed off to 1/2 teaspoon (1.2g) or less. Even before I caught a cold, I found 1.2 g curcumin to be effective.

Is this because some studies indicate that curcumin may have  immunosuppressive properties?  I've read a couple of the studies, but the languange is so technical that, not being a scientist, I have a little trouble following.  Also if curcumin is, as you have stated, purported to have anti-viral properties, wouldn't it be helpful in treating a cold, since colds are caused by a virus? 

I'm still experimenting with different ways of mixing (going to get some coconut oil this weekend).  Today after having problems getting it mix well with olive oil, I tried it with a new butter/olive oil blend.  This worked better, but still did not completely break down.  Then I put one whole bottle of the curcumin in the blender and, although I lost a little, what is left over is definitely a finer powder.  Haven't tried mixing it yet.  I'll wait till tomorrow's dose, since I've probably already had over 2g today already.  I'm going to try your method when I get some coconut oil and lecithen, but, since I don't drink coffee, I'll mix it with green tea.  I have a little inflammation today, but so far it seems better than yesterday.  My symptoms vary so much from day to day that it's going to take a while to see if I'm getting any benefit.  Let me know if you have any other suggestions.

Fred
Title: Re: Important New Curcumin Discover ...
Post by: George999 on November 13, 2009, 08:06:50 PM
Tapping Into Curry's Health Benefits (http://www.healthday.com/Article.asp?AID=632847)
Title: Re: Important New Curcumin Discover ...
Post by: Fred22 on November 14, 2009, 10:01:37 AM
Tapping Into Curry's Health Benefits (http://www.healthday.com/Article.asp?AID=632847)

Interesting information, George.  Do you know if there are any curcumin/liposome supplements available yet.  If not, meanwhile, do you agree that mixing it with oil assists in absorption.  Slowandsteady is getting good results with coconut oil and curcumin.  When you took curcumin, how did you prepare it?  Also, what is your take on curcumin's immunosuppresive properties?  Do you think it's anything to worry about in doses of less than 2g, or perhaps a helpful effect for Peyronie's?

Fred
Title: Re: Important New Curcumin Discover ...
Post by: George999 on November 14, 2009, 11:53:33 AM
Interesting information, George.  Do you know if there are any curcumin/liposome supplements available yet.  If not, meanwhile, do you agree that mixing it with oil assists in absorption.  Slowandsteady is getting good results with coconut oil and curcumin.  When you took curcumin, how did you prepare it?  Also, what is your take on curcumin's immunosuppresive properties?  Do you think it's anything to worry about in doses of less than 2g, or perhaps a helpful effect for Peyronie's?

Fred

There are no products based on this discovery yet, but supplement makers move pretty fast sometimes on these things.  When I was using circumin, I was using it with canola oil mixed with vegetables.  And I was putting a lot of it on and using it daily.  I don't think it is very dangerous, but I am not sure how effective it is.  s&s is finding it effective for him and I don't know if that is just how his body is reacting to it or if he has indeed found the magic formula.  Hopefully more people pick up on it and report on it so we can see how it works for a broader sampling of people.  What the liposome thing does tell us is that just the right formulation does make all the difference in terms of assimilation and without assimilation you might as well not be taking it.  - George
Title: Re: Important New Curcumin Discover ...
Post by: Fred22 on November 14, 2009, 02:32:19 PM
Interesting information, George.  Do you know if there are any curcumin/liposome supplements available yet.  If not, meanwhile, do you agree that mixing it with oil assists in absorption.  Slowandsteady is getting good results with coconut oil and curcumin.  When you took curcumin, how did you prepare it?  Also, what is your take on curcumin's immunosuppresive properties?  Do you think it's anything to worry about in doses of less than 2g, or perhaps a helpful effect for Peyronie's?
Fred

There are no products based on this discovery yet, but supplement makers move pretty fast sometimes on these things.  When I was using circumin, I was using it with canola oil mixed with vegetables.  And I was putting a lot of it on and using it daily.  I don't think it is very dangerous, but I am not sure how effective it is.  s&s is finding it effective for him and I don't know if that is just how his body is reacting to it or if he has indeed found the magic formula.  Hopefully more people pick up on it and report on it so we can see how it works for a broader sampling of people.  What the liposome thing does tell us is that just the right formulation does make all the difference in terms of assimilation and without assimilation you might as well not be taking it.  - George

Yeah, I've been taking it for two days now and have had pain both days.  I'm beginning to think my pain, or some of my pain, may be neurological.  For example, my stress level seems to really dictate the level of my pain.  Yesterday, I was virtually pain free, then just had a minor stressful situation and my pain flared up then settled down.  Later I received a letter with some stressful financial news and I immediately started hurting.  I'm still stressed today and pain is moderate.  I need to get back into therapy and redevelop my coping skills. Today I mixed the curcumin, which I had put in the blender and made into a finer powder, with pure butter which contained olive oil and it dissolved better.  I poured that into some green tea, as heat is supposed to make it about 10 times more water soluable.  We'll see how it does after a few days, but so far definitely no miraculous cure for my pain.  I'm also getting some heartburn, but don't know if it's the curcumin or stress related.  I have a feeling that even pentox might not help me (if it's mostly neurological) but I'd like to give it a try.

Fred
Title: Re: Important New Curcumin Discover ...
Post by: slowandsteady on November 14, 2009, 03:12:23 PM
Do you know if there are any curcumin/liposome supplements available yet.

Anthony at revgenetics.com is developing a micronized curcumin product using gelcaps, MCT oil, and Tween 80, another surfactant. You might want to drop him an email.

New Chapter has an interesting formulation that uses concentrated curcumin oils.

Curcumin has a logP of 2.85. From this explanation (http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=31501&view=findpost&p=339287), that means if curcumin is put in a container that is half water and half oil and shaken up, 708 curcumin particles will end up in the oil for every one particle in the water. It's pretty obvious why taking curcumin with only water means little absorption.  Actually, from reading that whole thread, I'd guess that mixing curcumin with olive oil (long chain fatty acids) might lead to the highest bioavailability.
Title: Re: Important New Curcumin Discover ...
Post by: George999 on November 14, 2009, 04:13:24 PM
Curcumin has a logP of 2.85. From this explanation (http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=31501&view=findpost&p=339287), that means if curcumin is put in a container that is half water and half oil and shaken up, 708 curcumin particles will end up in the oil for every one particle in the water. It's pretty obvious why taking curcumin with only water means little absorption.  Actually, from reading that whole thread, I'd guess that mixing curcumin with olive oil (long chain fatty acids) might lead to the highest bioavailability.

As far as I know most vendors out there now sell the stuff in dry form in capsules.  No wonder it has so little effect.  I really seems like it should be delivered in some sort of softgel.  - George
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: Tim468 on November 15, 2009, 09:39:21 AM
Fred - interesting observations about the source of pain. That in turn makes me wonder if the act of mixing up a medication or chemical to take, brings your mind to the problem and thus creates stress too - more than the drug itself. Hang in there and keep working on it - that's all any of us can do!

Tim
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: Fred22 on November 15, 2009, 11:47:39 AM
Fred - interesting observations about the source of pain. That in turn makes me wonder if the act of mixing up a medication or chemical to take, brings your mind to the problem and thus creates stress too - more than the drug itself. Hang in there and keep working on it - that's all any of us can do!
Tim

Tim,
Funny you should mention that.  The first stressful event that I mentioned in my post was trying to get the curcumin to mix properly, spilling some, losing some when I put it in the blender, staining, etc.  In fact, when I got finished my beard was yellow!  All seemingly small events, but goes to your point above about mixing a med bringing your mind to the problem and creating stress.  I've been diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder and was seeing a cognitive behavior therapist for a while...need to get back into therapy!

Fred
Title: Re: Pain ...
Post by: George999 on November 15, 2009, 03:26:19 PM
I have had the same problem as Fred with pain in the urinary tract as well as Peyronie's pain.  Low Dose Naltrexone seems to be helping me with both at this point.  But the question remains, what is the source of this pain in the urinary tract?  Is it somehow associated with Peyronie's?  In my case I am undergoing a lot of tests right now because of my neuropathic pain.  One of those tests which was done before I started on the Low Dose Naltrexone was a compete urinalysis.  This was a sequence of two complete assays done about a week apart.  The core of the urinalysis showed no problems.  But, interestingly, let me quote from the cytology section:

Quote from: Test #2 - Oct  9
Diagnosis: No Malignant Cells Identified  COMMENT:  The urinary sediment shows reactive urothelial cells with mild background mixed acute and chronic inflammation as well as degenerative changes of urothelial cells.  There are rare crenated RBCs present.

Quote from: Test #1 - Oct 14
Diagnosis: Atypical Cells Identified  COMMENT:  The urinary sediment shows few atypical urothelial cells, several of which demonstrate prominent nucleomegaly as well as few cellular clusters with a background of mixed acute and chronic inflammation and microscopic hematuria.

Tim may understand some of this language better than I do, but it looks like there is an inflammatory process going on in the urinary tract as well as in the TA in my case.

Other discoveries so far in my case are deficiencies in Vitamin B5 and Omega 3/6/9 Fatty Acids.  More tests are on the way.

My suspicion in the case of Peyronie's is that there is a wide variation in the way that it presents itself in various individuals with an equally wide array of surrounding issues and complicating factors.  - George
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: Tim468 on November 15, 2009, 09:40:22 PM
George - not sure what that means. I can run it by a colleague to see what it might mean to him, but I bet that it is so different in kids he may not know either.

Tim
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: Fred22 on November 17, 2009, 10:10:57 AM
Check out this link.  It's a "new formulation" which purportedly greatly enhances bioavailability of curcumin.  Might be all hype, but for all interested take a look and let us know what you think.

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/oct2007_report_curcumin_01.htm
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: George999 on November 17, 2009, 10:52:04 AM
Check out this link.  It's a "new formulation" which purportedly greatly enhances bioavailability of curcumin.  Might be all hype, but for all interested take a look and let us know what you think.

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/oct2007_report_curcumin_01.htm

Life Extension is pretty reputable among the supplement vendors.  This sounds pretty impressive to me.  Its also available now.  Here's the link:

http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Super-BIO-Curcumin-400-mg-60-Veggie-Caps/15211?at=0 (http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Super-BIO-Curcumin-400-mg-60-Veggie-Caps/15211?at=0)

Note the positive customer comments.  - George
Title: Re: Important New Curcumin Discover ...
Post by: slowandsteady on November 17, 2009, 01:15:38 PM
As far as I know most vendors out there now sell the stuff in dry form in capsules.  No wonder it has so little effect.  I really seems like it should be delivered in some sort of softgel.  - George

Yes, although it's not quite so bleak if the curcumin is taken with a meal that includes fat. Taken by itself on an empty stomach with just water does nothing for systemic delivery, though it does help the digestive system, reducing the rate of colon cancer.

The LEF product is nice. I like that the mechanism of increasing bioavailability is by using components of the turmeric root.

On additional issue is how best to measure bioavailability of an oil-soluble product? At the end of the day the amount in the tissue is the most important factor, but researchers often measure blood plasma levels. If it's in the blood plasma the liver will remove it, so it has a finite window of opportunity to work in before it is filtered out.

On the other hand, maybe transport through the lymph system is better. This way the tissues get bathed in the oil-soluble substance before the liver filters it. The way to get it into the lymph system is with long chain fatty acids like olive oil. Medium chain oils like coconut oil take it directly into the blood plasma through the portal vein.

My conclusions for fat soluble supplements are

s&s
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: George999 on November 17, 2009, 01:31:02 PM
Perhaps the LEF product could be taken in an oil base formulation as well?  That would be interesting.  - George
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: George999 on November 17, 2009, 04:35:10 PM
And look what I just found.  It looks like LEF is using the liposomal technique already, but with their old C3 formulation.  It will be interesting to see if they repackage their new broad spectrum formulation into a liposomal delivery system as well.  - George

http://www.iherb.com/Life-Enhancement-NanoCurcuminoids-100-mg-90-Capsules/16641?at=0 (http://www.iherb.com/Life-Enhancement-NanoCurcuminoids-100-mg-90-Capsules/16641?at=0)
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: slowandsteady on November 17, 2009, 09:55:08 PM
LEF is repackaging this product (http://www.bcm95.com/).
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: Fred22 on November 18, 2009, 11:49:17 AM
And look what I just found.  It looks like LEF is using the liposomal technique already, but with their old C3 formulation.  It will be interesting to see if they repackage their new broad spectrum formulation into a liposomal delivery system as well.  - George

http://www.iherb.com/Life-Enhancement-NanoCurcuminoids-100-mg-90-Capsules/16641?at=0 (http://www.iherb.com/Life-Enhancement-NanoCurcuminoids-100-mg-90-Capsules/16641?at=0)

If you take 3 of these a day, that's 300 mg.  Is that enough to effectively reduce inflammation?  I'm taking about 1.2g mixed with extra virgin olive oil.  I've put the powder through a blender and though I lost a little, it now dissolves pretty well in the olive oil.  However, I haven't been taking this on an empty stomach as suggested by S&S.  Does everyone agree that if taken in olive oil it should be on an empty stomach?

Fred
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: slowandsteady on November 18, 2009, 11:57:42 AM
Does everyone agree that if taken in olive oil it should be on an empty stomach?

Fred
I don't think it will make a huge amount of difference, but might be slightly better, so IMO I wouldn't sweat it.
Title: Re: Topical curcumin
Post by: slowandsteady on November 18, 2009, 12:04:37 PM
I made up a batch of DMSO curcumin. I filled up a cobalt dropper bottle about 1/4 with curcumin and poured 70% DMSO until about 75% of the bottle was filled and shook. My tentative plan is to try this for a couple of weeks and see how effective it is. I'm on day 2 now.

Watch out for the stains. A bleach based cleaner works well on countertops.
Title: Re: Topical curcumin
Post by: Iceman on November 18, 2009, 11:55:25 PM
S&S - perhaps add in some chicken thigh fillets and we can have a nice stir fry for dinner:)
Title: Re: Topical curcumin
Post by: newguy on November 19, 2009, 07:12:14 AM
S&S - perhaps add in some chicken thigh fillets and we can have a nice stir fry for dinner:)

Made me chuckle :D.

----

Be sure to keep us informed S&S.. :)
Title: Re: Topical curcumin
Post by: slowandsteady on November 19, 2009, 09:53:58 AM
Yeah, pretty impressive results so far. My penis is completely yellow. :D

I think I need to get some gloves...
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: newguy on November 19, 2009, 09:56:41 AM
Reitterating some old bioavailability tips:

Quote
The cells lining the human small intestine contain several types of enzymes that convert curcumin into relatively inactive substances:

1.UGT (UDP-glucuronosyltransferase) enzymes;
2.sulfotransferase enzymes;
3.alcohol dehydrogenase;
4.p450 enzymes.
These same enzymes are also found in the liver and other tissues.

Among the available substances that inhibit these enzymes are:

1.Piperine (extracted from black pepper) inhibits UGT enzymes and p450 enzymes;
2.Quercetin (extracted from various plants) inhibits sulfotransferase enzymes;
3.Genistein (extracted from soy) inhibits alcohol dehydrogenase
http://www.delano.com/ReferenceArticles/curcumin-enhancement.html


Quote
Curcumin's full pharmacological potential is limited owing to its extremely limited water solubility. We report here that the water solubility of curcumin could be increased from 0.6 μg/ml to 7.4 μg/ml (12-fold increase) by the use of heat. Spectrophotometric (400–700 nm) and mass spectrometric profiling of the heat-extracted curcumin displays no significant heat-mediated disintegration of curcumin. Using an enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay that employed HNE modification of solid-phase antigen, we found that the heat-solubilized curcumin inhibited HNE-protein modification by 80%. Thus, inhibition of HNE modification may be a mechanism by which curcumin exerts its effect. We also report a simple assay to detect curcumin spectrophotometrically.
- http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/adt.2007.064



[/quote]

Of course it sounds like this advice is fast becoming obselete with the new bioavailability methods coming through. I still have quite  asuppyl of curcumin and tend to dissolve it in cocunut oil. I tried the piperine version, but was concerned about how it may increase or decrease the bioavailability of other supplements, so stopped.
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: newguy on November 19, 2009, 10:00:12 AM
My other relevant post from way back when, on this matter and new thoughts added to the bottom:

Quote from: newguy
I saw a post on imminst.org leading to this page:

http://addiandcassi.com/year/the-real-curcumin-for-treating-alzheimer%E2%80%99s-parkinson%E2%80%99s-and-other-brain-disease

It discusses what is called a "super optimized curcumin" used at UCLA and a parents quest to get access to it. I am suspicious of these things, but if we can find the actual study elsewhere confirming its bioavailability then it could be something that's useful to us.

Further information here: http://downsyndromejourney.forumotion.com/down-syndrome-awareness-f12/longvida-curcumin-information-t1300.htm

Found this too:

Quote
Dear Margaret:

Recently, a solid lipid nanoparticle formulation of curcumin has become available.

The formulation was developed in the labs of two professors at UCLA:

Professor Sally A. Frautschy http://alzheimer.neurology.ucla.edu/Frautschy.html
Professor Greg M. Cole http://alzheimer.neurology.ucla.edu/Cole.html

This formulation is described in detail in a patent application, PCT/US07/05829 (WO/2007/103435) http://tinyurl.com/3eaegw
Bioavailable Curcuminoid Formulations for Treating Alzheimer’s Disease and Other Age-Related Disorders.

The Regents of the University of California http://tinyurl.com/2bztov have licensed it to:

Verdure Sciences, Inc.
1250 East Conner Street
Noblesville, IN 46060
[email protected]

This formulation has eleven times greater bioavailabiity in the plasma when tested in rodents (see note 1).

Verdure has trademarked this formulation as Curcuminol M3Cx and Longvida. It is available in 500 mg capsules, and these may be obtained by contacting Blake Ebersole @ 317-219-0355 at Verdure. E-mail [email protected] You can ask him to fax the forms a customer needs to fill-out to obtain the capsules. It is sold in packages of 100 capsules for $59.99. A 400 capsule package is available, too.

Although curcumin has been given in clinical trials in doses as high as 12 grams a day with only minimal toxicity (note 2), I would reason that 4 grams (8 x 500 mg capsules) might be the optimal dose.

Pharmanza Herbals Pvt. Limited, which is Verdure’s production facility in India, http://www.verduresciences.de/index.php?nav=2&lang=en, is acting as the sponsor for a trial of this curcumin formulation for advanced osteosarcoma at:

Tata Memorial Hospital
Advanced Centre for Treatment, Research and Education in Cancer (ACTREC)
Pilot Study of Curcumin Formulation and Ashwagandha Extract in Advanced Osteosarcoma (OSCAT)
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00689195
Manish Agarwal, M.D. 011-91-22-2417-7184 [email protected]
Vikram S. Gota, M.D. 011-91-22-2417-7000 ext 4537 [email protected]

I spoke with Dr. Gota in July who told me that this formulation seemed effective in the early results from the trial. They are using a 4 gram/day dose.

Regards,

David Corbin

REFERENCES

1) Curcumin structure-function, bioavailability, and efficacy in models of neuroinflammation and Alzheimer’s disease.
Begum AN, Jones MR, Lim GP, Morihara T, Kim P, Heath DD, Rock CL, Pruitt MA, Yang F, Hudspeth B, Hu S, Faull KF, Teter B, Cole GM, Frautschy SA.
J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 2008 Jul,326(1):196-208.
http://pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=18417733

The inference I suppose is that the curcumin used in the study (1) is the curcumin formulation in question. It might be worth having a read through it to see if it actually is much more effective than the methods we're using right now and whether its something worth exploring further.

UPDATE: People are taking the stuff. See this blog entry from September 1st: http://gotdownsyndrome.blogspot.com/2009/09/changes-since-starting-longvida.html

and it appears that is it sold here for $35.95 for 60 capsules: http://www.nutrivene.com/view_item.php?ProductID=331&

This is the claim made: • Longvida™ reaches plasma at least 65 times better than generic curcumin.

Is it worth me trying to see is they can back this up. How effective are the other newer forumations of curcumin supposed to be, and those coming onto the market? Maybe this formulation is nothing to write home about with what is just around the corner?
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: Fred22 on November 19, 2009, 10:26:17 AM
Although curcumin has been given in clinical trials in doses as high as 12 grams a day with only minimal toxicity (note 2), I would reason that 4 grams (8 x 500 mg capsules) might be the optimal dose.

When they say "4g might be the optimal dose"....the optimal dose for what?   I'm taking app. 1.2g with olive oil (it dissolves pretty well in olive oil) for inflammation.  Would we need to take at least 4g to treat inflammation or does anyone know?  I guess it's kind of a "shot in the dark" at this point when, like so many other treatments, there have been no true "scientific" studies.  I've only been doing the curcumin for about 3 or 4 days now and don't really know if it's helping yet.  I had a couple of relatively pain free days, but yesterday got a flareup after a bowel movement, which happens to me occassionaly if I strain the least bit.  I feel a sort of "contraction" in my penis or maybe my bladder neck (hard to tell) and then I get this "tight" feeling in my penis, then pain.  Does anyone else get anything like this? I have chronic constipation because of (I assume) medications that I'm taking and I deal with it in a number of ways (enemas, laxatives, suppositories).  Lately I've been using Milk of Magnesia.  I'm sure from my experience that there is a connection between my penile pain and constipation (straining). Well, I just realized I've gone off on a tangent...My main reason for this post was RE curcumin dosage.

Fred
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: newguy on November 20, 2009, 04:32:55 PM
Here's a current phase II clinical trial for alzheimers using longvida: http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01001637

Although curcumin has been given in clinical trials in doses as high as 12 grams a day with only minimal toxicity (note 2), I would reason that 4 grams (8 x 500 mg capsules) might be the optimal dose.

When they say "4g might be the optimal dose"....the optimal dose for what?   I'm taking app. 1.2g with olive oil (it dissolves pretty well in olive oil) for inflammation.  Would we need to take at least 4g to treat inflammation or does anyone know?  I guess it's kind of a "shot in the dark" at this point when, like so many other treatments, there have been no true "scientific" studies. 

Your guess is as good as mine. Perhaps at 4g, benefits in relation to the increased amount taken, are deemed to decrease. As for what dose would be best for peyronie's, i'd agree that it's a shot in the dark. It's dark to know how much it helps, but if we go with what might be helpful, it's something we shouldn't be ruling out.
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: Fred22 on December 02, 2009, 10:54:07 AM
Thanks for the info.  Think I'll order some and try it out.  I'll post results.

Fred
Thanks, please do. It will be nice to get some more feedback on curcumin taken with oil.


Slowandsteady,
I've been taking the curcumin with olive oil for over 2 weeks now with no noticable results.  I did have a good day yesterday, but woke up this morning with the urinary tract irritation that George has also mentioned.  It's possible the curcumin is not effective for me because my pain may not be caused by inflammation (neurological?).  Don't know, but I do feel there is some connection between the pain and my chronic constipation.  I've been taking 4 tbsp. milk of magnesia for a few weeks now (longer than recommended I know). Last night I got up during the night to pee and I would get started and then feel like I had to have a BM which would stop the stream triggering the "burning" sensation in my urethrera.  It's still burning as I'm posting this message.  Just took a dose of curcumin hoping against hope that it will help. I may have to go back on the ibuprofen but that's a double edged sword as it aggravates the constipation problem.  What's the saying?..."Between a rock and a hard place"!! I'm going to order the Fitzz VED and try the 26 week protocol...maybe that will give me some relief.  

Fred
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: slowandsteady on December 06, 2009, 03:19:18 AM
Maybe you have a urinary tract infection? Guys can get yeast too, and bacteria might be involved too. You might want to see a doctor.
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: Fred22 on December 07, 2009, 03:23:33 PM
Maybe you have a urinary tract infection? Guys can get yeast too, and bacteria might be involved too. You might want to see a doctor.

Nah...I've had these same symptoms before and had urine checked out.  Also, this comes and goes.  Some days it's an "aching" kind of pain, other days it's more of a "burning" sensation.  On a good day it feels almost "normal".  I'm thinking maybe some neuropathic issue or just typical Peyronies Disease inflammation that is difficult to knock out.  The curcumin does seem to help me with some GI issues I've been having though.
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: slowandsteady on December 09, 2009, 12:40:47 AM
The curcumin does seem to help me with some GI issues I've been having though.
It does have anti-fungal and anti-viral properties.
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: Fred22 on December 16, 2009, 10:04:13 AM
I'm happy to hear that curcumin is effective for some, but in my case it appears to be a non-starter.  I've tried it for close to a month with virtually no improvement of symptoms.  I'm starting to think, as I've said before, that some of my pain could be neuropathic in origin..at least partially.  Yesterday afternoon I took 800 mg. ibuprofen.  After 2 hours my pain was at the same level.  At about 3 hours after dosage, the pain seemed to let up a bit, but then was back within 1 hour or so. This is the pattern that is typical of my experience with pain.  It comes and goes from moment to moment so it's hard to determine if the ibuprofen had any effect.  I've discussed this issue with at least one other person on the forum who has the exact same experience.  The pain can let up, I'll change positions and it's back.  Straining or lifting can bring it on.  Today I'm experiencing only minor irritation at the moment and I'm wondering if possibly the ibuprofen could have knocked down some of the inflammation.  I noticed when I got up during the night to pee that it wasn't hurting.  I think I'll try 800 mg. at lunch and another 800 at dinner and see if that is more effective.  If anyone has suggestions regarding the use of ibuprofen I'd appreciate the feedback.  Thanks.
Fred
Title: Re: Curcumin/control of pain.
Post by: Old Man on December 16, 2009, 10:28:26 AM
Fred22:

Over the years, I too have experienced different levels of pain in the groin area. Many epidural blocks have been taken to help control lower back pain. During the time of relief for the lower back pain with the blocks, the groin/penile pain went away.

Consultation with a neuro doc revealed that the pain was caused by a pinched nerve in the lumbar region of my back. He said control the back pain and the groin pain with go away and it does. It seems that the pinched nerve was one that controlled that portion of my body.

So, as a suggestion, you might want to explore this possibility with the pain. Nerves can play a major role in how pain is controlled with or without medication.

Old Man
Title: Re: Curcumin/control of pain.
Post by: Fred22 on December 16, 2009, 10:24:52 PM
Fred22:

Over the years, I too have experienced different levels of pain in the groin area. Many epidural blocks have been taken to help control lower back pain. During the time of relief for the lower back pain with the blocks, the groin/penile pain went away.

Consultation with a neuro doc revealed that the pain was caused by a pinched nerve in the lumbar region of my back. He said control the back pain and the groin pain with go away and it does. It seems that the pinched nerve was one that controlled that portion of my body.

So, as a suggestion, you might want to explore this possibility with the pain. Nerves can play a major role in how pain is controlled with or without medication.

Old Man

Old Man,

I'm considering seeing a neuro specialist or a pain management doc.  I do believe that the pain is a result of the Peyronie's (I have no back pain), but I agree that there could be some neurological connection.  Today I started off almost pain free and then the pain started after urination, and then would subside, then come back when I peed again.  I've had this before and had urine checked, so I'm sure it's not a UTI.  I'm really stumped and it's getting extremely depressing at this point.  I tried ibuprofen again today and it had negligable effect.  Thanks for your suggestions.

Fred
Title: Re: Curcumin and inflammation ...
Post by: George999 on December 17, 2009, 10:21:39 AM
I had the same kind of problems that Fred is having for years before the Peyronie's started.  I was on antibiotics for much of that time until I could no longer tolerate them.  Often the urinary tract problems were associated with bowel problems, IBS, etc. and/or physical exertion.  Then I turned to cranberry extract, d-mannose, vitamin C, etc. to control the problem.  I too am convinced that all of this is related.  Most of the time I had the UTI symptoms, there was no evidence in my lab tests of any UTI.   At this point, finally, with Vitamin D management, Low Dose Naltrexone and now Vitamin B5 repletion I am finally off of the cranberry and finally the UTI symptoms are abating.  I also recently had extensive in depth urine testing done while having UTI symptoms and there was no evidence of infection, but much evidence of acute and chronic non-infectious inflammation.  Just like what goes on in the TA.  I really don't think that Fred and I are alone.  I think a lot of guys have this syndrome going on and the doctors are simply clueless as to how to deal with it.  With those in depth urine tests, I now know that I am not crazy and indeed there is something weird going on in my urinary tract.  And there is a bacterial infection going on, it is happening at such a low level that it is not detectable with the standard testing and urine culture approaches.  Such an infection in and of itself would represent some sort of immune system dysfunction which leads right back to the same ball of wax.  Immune dysfunction, chronic inflammation, they are all the same thing.   - George
Title: Re: Curcumin and inflammation
Post by: Fred22 on December 17, 2009, 11:03:26 AM
George,

Did the cranberry help?  Are you talking about juice or the softgel extract?  When this started a few years ago I took the cranberry extract (softgels) for quite a while with no success.  This was before the Peyronie's was diagnosed (before curvature).  This morning I got the burning sensation when I got up and while I was sitting on the sofa.  Now sitting upright in an office chair at the computer the pain is less.  At night when I lie down in bed it often goes away completely, so my position definitely has some effect on whatever's going on and ibuprofen is not helping much.  Maybe I should increase dosage but there are dire warnings about taking the max dosage if over 60.  I'm 65 and do have some GI issues (heartburn, indigestion, etc.) and chronic constipation due to (I believe) the 10 mg. diazepam and 30 mg. mirtazapine (Remeron).  I have to be very careful when having a BM because if I strain too much it really causes a flareup, especially if I squeeze out some urine in the process...so there is definitely some irritation involving the urethra which doesn't sound like the "typical" Peyronie's symptoms (if indeed any case is "typical").  A sudden stressful event can also cause a flareup of pain.  Woodman also has pain patterns and symptoms similar to what George and I are experiencing.  I'm wondering if any others are also exhibiting similar symptoms??   
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: UK on December 17, 2009, 11:48:57 AM
sounds like CPPS Chronic Pelvic Pain Syndrome - if you have everything else checked out - no bacteria, no damage etc..
Its thought it is neuro-muscular, you are subconsciously and conscioulsly carrying tension in your pelvic floor muscles causing your symptoms. It builds over years. As for a fix, there isn't an easy one, trigger point release on these muscles could alleviate symptoms, reduction in stress, yoga to stretch and meditation to relax etc..
You did it to yourself by being the way you are programmed, now you need to unprogramme yourself.
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: Fred22 on December 17, 2009, 01:18:25 PM
sounds like CPPS Chronic Pelvic Pain Syndrome - if you have everything else checked out - no bacteria, no damage etc..
Its thought it is neuro-muscular, you are subconsciously and conscioulsly carrying tension in your pelvic floor muscles causing your symptoms. It builds over years. As for a fix, there isn't an easy one, trigger point release on these muscles could alleviate symptoms, reduction in stress, yoga to stretch and meditation to relax etc..
You did it to yourself by being the way you are programmed, now you need to unprogramme yourself.


Researchers at Stanford (I believe) have done a study of this and published a book called
"A Headache in The Pelvis". Their theory is that many men tense in the pelvic area due to stress without realizing it. I've been meaning to get this and try the exercises as I think I may have some of this going on.  I mean, I know the pain is "caused" by Peyronie's which leads to stress>pelvic tension>more pain>more stress.  They have the book in my local library and I'm going to check it out.  Thanks for the reminder.  I'm sure the exercises couldn't hurt.  I've done yoga off and on for many years, but stopped because some of the positions seemed to make the Peyronie's pain worse.  Do the symptoms of CPPS exhibit as penile burning, hurting after urination though is my question?
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: UK on December 17, 2009, 01:28:52 PM
CPPS Symptoms - I've got a 3 day session in January with a miofascial release therapist specialising in CPPS and if it helps, I'll know its muscular. When I am on holiday symptoms are much less, so stress is a factor.

Urinary frequency (need to urinate often, usually more than once every two hours)
  Urinary urgency (hard to hold urination once urge occurs)
  Sitting triggers or exacerbates discomfort/pain/symptoms 
  Pain or discomfort during or after ejaculation
  Discomfort/aching/pain in the rectum (feels like a “golf ball” in the rectum)
  Discomfort/pain in the penis (commonly at the tip or shaft)
  Ache/pain/sensitivity of testicles
  Suprapubic pain (pain above the pubic bone)
  Perineal pain (pain between the scrotum and anus)
  Coccygeal pain (pain in and around the tailbone)
  Low back pain (on one side or both)
  Groin pain (on one side or both)
  Dysuria (pain or burning during urination)
  Nocturia (frequent urination at night)
  Reduced urinary stream
  Sense of incomplete urinating
  Hesitancy before or during urination
  Reduced libido (reduced interest in sex)
  Anxiety about having sex
  Discomfort or relief after a bowel movement
  Anxiety and catastrophic thinking
  Depression
  Social withdrawal and impairment of intimate relations
  Impairment of self-esteem
Title: Re: CPPS
Post by: Fred22 on December 17, 2009, 03:58:33 PM
 1.  Urinary frequency (need to urinate often, usually more than once every two hours)  YES
 2.  Urinary urgency (hard to hold urination once urge occurs) NO
 3.  Sitting triggers or exacerbates discomfort/pain/symptoms  YES
 4.  Pain or discomfort during or after ejaculation YES
 5.  Discomfort/aching/pain in the rectum (feels like a “golf ball” in the rectum) SOMETIMES
 6.  Discomfort/pain in the penis (commonly at the tip or shaft) YES!!
 7.  Ache/pain/sensitivity of testicles NO
 8.  Suprapubic pain (pain above the pubic bone) NO
 9.  Perineal pain (pain between the scrotum and anus) NO
10. Coccygeal pain (pain in and around the tailbone) SOMETIMES (But I think this is from sitting)
11. Low back pain (on one side or both) NO
12. Groin pain (on one side or both) NO
13. Dysuria (pain or burning during urination) YES
14. Nocturia (frequent urination at night) YES
15. Reduced urinary stream SOMETIMES
16. Sense of incomplete urinating SOMETIMES
17. Hesitancy before or during urination YES (USUALLY)
18. Reduced libido (reduced interest in sex) YES
19. Anxiety about having sex YES
20. Discomfort or relief after a bowel movement YES
21. Anxiety and catastrophic thinking YES!
22. Depression YES!
23. Social withdrawal and impairment of intimate relations YES!
24. Impairment of self-esteem YES!

So I responded either YES or SOMETIMES to 18 out of 24 of the symptoms.  I would say It's fairly likely that I have at least some of this pelvic stress thing going on, possibly along with the inflammation. I also have paruresis (shy bladder) which was not a big problem before the Peyronie's.  I could usually just go to the stall and pee in most any restroom.  Now it's up for grabs where I'll be able to pee which really exacerbates numbers 21-24. BTW, we've wandered quite far afield from the original thread (Curcumin).  Maybe this thread should be moved?  UK- Please keep us posted on your condition.  I'd be glad to communicate by PM if you wish.

Fred  

 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: skunkworks on December 17, 2009, 05:55:23 PM
I think this pelvic stress thing warrants its own thread, plus it should not really be in the circumin thread anway. Do mods have the capability of splitting threads?
Title: Re: CPPS
Post by: Fred22 on December 17, 2009, 07:52:02 PM
I think this pelvic stress thing warrants its own thread, plus it should not really be in the curcumin thread anway. Do mods have the capability of splitting threads?

I agree.  I think there should be a CPPS thread.

Fred
Title: Re: CPPS ...
Post by: George999 on December 18, 2009, 10:50:48 AM
I have started a new thread in the off topic area on this.  - George
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: newguy on October 14, 2010, 02:47:29 PM
S&S - Do you still feel that Curcumin has a place in the treatment of peyronie's disease? How about resveratrol (also listed here). It seems that over time more and more positive findings in conenction to both or them. It would be hard to know whether or not that applied to peyronies too, as I doubt many people try these strategies.
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: slowandsteady on October 15, 2010, 10:03:49 AM
I would say yes, just because IMO it's a good supplement for anyone to take for cancer prevention. It was most helpful to me in the earlier stages of the disease when I had pain. I still take it for general health.
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: newguy on October 15, 2010, 10:38:13 AM
I would say yes, just because IMO it's a good supplement for anyone to take for cancer prevention. It was most helpful to me in the earlier stages of the disease when I had pain. I still take it for general health.

I still have a few bottle of it. For whatever reason, it never really worked its way into my regimen in a big way. I'm thinking of having a week or two where I can back to just pentox, and then rejig my current supplements. At that stage I'll likely include curcumin. My pain hasn't been as bad lately, which I've been rather pleased about.
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: Farinthesouth on October 16, 2010, 10:15:45 AM
I want to share with you this article:


http://www.news-medical.net/news/20100917/BCM-95-curcumin-exhibits-anti-inflammatory-properties.aspx

Regards
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: newguy on October 16, 2010, 11:50:53 AM
Thanks for the link farinthesouth. I posted last year about a "super optimized curcumin study (http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,990.msg23448/topicseen.html#msg23448)" at UCLA. There have been a few ideas over the years for increasing the bioavailability of curcumin. Some members here put it with oil (coconut oil for instance) as that is known to increase its bioavailability. While there are no studies suggesting that it's a worthwhile peyronie's treatment, its anti inflammatory proporties are undeniable. Since inflammatory processes are very much present within peyronie's disease (and a great many other conditions, as the article points out), it's a tact that many people take with these somewhat experimental approaches.

Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: Farinthesouth on October 16, 2010, 09:24:12 PM
Thanks for the link farinthesouth. I posted last year about a "super optimized curcumin study (http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,990.msg23448/topicseen.html#msg23448)" at UCLA. There have been a few ideas over the years for increasing the bioavailability of curcumin. Some members here put it with oil (coconut oil for instance) as that is known to increase its bioavailability. While there are no studies suggesting that it's a worthwhile peyronie's treatment, its anti inflammatory proporties are undeniable. Since inflammatory processes are very much present within peyronie's disease (and a great many other conditions, as the article points out), it's a tact that many people take with these somewhat experimental approaches.


Yes, I begun a try today, with powdered curcumin and olive oil ( One tea spoon), let´s see what happens....

Best for all

Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: Farinthesouth on February 17, 2011, 10:15:06 AM
Here´s an old, but still relevant article about Curcumin.

Regards


http://www.charakinternational.com/pdfs/Aggarwal-Curcumin-Ch-1.pdf
Title: Re: CURCUMIN
Post by: peterjackson on June 30, 2012, 05:29:13 AM
I also just read on a cur cumin blog that it mixed perfectly with butter.
Title: Re: CURCUMIN
Post by: james1947 on July 27, 2012, 10:02:40 PM
Curcumin & Diabetes

http://health.yahoo.net/news/s/nm/curcumin-capsules-found-to-curb-diabetes-risk

James
Title: Re: CURCUMIN
Post by: yyy on July 14, 2014, 07:01:40 AM
so did anyone get benefits from oral curcumin?
Title: Re: CURCUMIN
Post by: NeoV on July 14, 2014, 08:46:56 AM
I tried oral Curcumin for a few months while on pentox. Personally I can't say with any certainty that it helped. But with Peyronie's you can't go off empirical evidence, you have to go off logic. If studies demonstrate that it helps, take it, if it makes logical sense that it might help, take it!
Title: Re: CURCUMIN
Post by: membaka on July 19, 2014, 07:32:35 PM
I am no biochemist, however i think that the problem with curcumin is the bioavailability in the body when eating.
There are several studies highlightning this problem, companies are currently trying to mix it together with other compounds with the goal of increasing the absorption i think i have read on longecity.
Title: Re: CURCUMIN
Post by: skunkworks on July 19, 2014, 11:17:05 PM
Well one of the issues with curcumin is that it is fat soluble, so unless you've got it in oil based gel caps, you might need to take it with some fat.

Would a handful of fish oil tablets do the trick i wonder?

Second problem is of course the expense, it is not cheap, hard to justify it with little solid evidence.
Title: Re: CURCUMIN
Post by: UrsusMinor on July 20, 2014, 02:23:49 PM
Yep, curcumin and CoQ10 both need fat (as do A, D, E, and K).

And so do other things, like lycopene in tomatoes (which is supposed to fight prostate cancer).

A somewhat ironic result of the dietary advice of the last several decades is that a lot of people's idea of healthy is a large greens and tomatoes salad with non-fat dressing. A large portion of what's good for you gets wasted.

Of course, curcumin's natural place in the human diet is through turmeric in curries--and curries are invariably somewhat fatty. 
Title: Re: CURCUMIN
Post by: james1947 on July 21, 2014, 12:59:35 AM
In many places in the world Curcumin is available as spice, really cheep.
Why just not buy and cook with?
Or maybe as skunkworks suggested, with some fish oil capsules?

James
Title: Re: CURCUMIN
Post by: Freemason on July 31, 2015, 07:35:50 PM
Curcumin is a great anti oxidant and can significantly reduce inflammation.  However..taking supplements can be challenging from an absorption standpoint as other have said.  Check out the company Aterenon. I just started taking their Lycopene product and they now have Aterenon Active which is Curcumin and has been studied and published for helping athletes recover quicker.  They have some proprietary formula that helps with absorption.  Just FYI.
Title: Re: CURCUMIN
Post by: goodluck on August 02, 2015, 01:00:41 PM
supplement manufacturers generally use black pepper to help with absorption.  I saw a study that showed it increased absorption by about 20%.  Not a huge value but better than nothing.  As earlier mentioned taken with some fat can help as well.
Title: Re: CURCUMIN
Post by: Freemason on August 02, 2015, 03:33:53 PM
The Lycopene(Aterenon) tomatoe pill I take has Polysorbate 80 and Soy Lecithin both are used to improve absorption. But it's also manufactured using some micro crystallization process which makes it more readily absorbed. Only way to really know how much of anything you are getting is if it's actually been studied in actual humans. Most aren't. Not all supplements are alike I guess is what I'm saying.  Whether it makes a difference or not in my Peyronies Disease...guess I'll find out in about 6 months or so.
Title: Re: CURCUMIN
Post by: Jonbinspain on August 02, 2015, 03:41:21 PM
James is right. Curcumin is widely used in Asian Cuisine - especially Indian. You can buy bags of ground Turmeric. If you use it in powder form, be very careful!  It stains just about anything it comes in contact with!...and it ain't easy to shift!...
Title: Re: Curcumin
Post by: Freemason on August 05, 2015, 07:53:21 PM
Check out this link.  It's a "new formulation" which purportedly greatly enhances bioavailability of curcumin.  Might be all hype, but for all interested take a look and let us know what you think.

Novel Turmeric Compound Delivers Much More Curcumin to the Blood - Life Extension (http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/oct2007_report_curcumin_01.htm)

Thanks for the link.  Go check out Aterenon..the company. They have a highly bio available Curcumin that has even better absorption...it has been studied and published. It is recommended for Doms..which is what runners get when they have muscle soreness after long runs etc..Aterenon Curcumin significantly improved recovery, soreness etc..

You are correct though...so many supplements are just worthless unfortunately as the absorption is so poor....but the technology is quickly changing and scientists are beginning to figure out how to improve absorption 10 fold or more I some supple,nets.  I take Aterenon Lycopene for LDL Oxidaion prevention...looking forward to getting my blood work checked in 90 days and shocking my cardiologist. Haha.
Title: Re: CURCUMIN
Post by: james1947 on August 05, 2015, 07:58:59 PM
Regarding highly bio available Curcumin.
My pee is more yellow after eating meals that Curcumin is the main spice in them.
It means is highly bio available or not?

James
Title: Re: CURCUMIN
Post by: Freemason on August 05, 2015, 09:39:19 PM
Well. I'm no bio Chemistry expert but..what you are peeing out is what your body IS NOT absorbing. Tumeric(Curcumin) is tough for the body to absorb. It is fat soluble not water soluble. If u eat a little fat before taking it it will help a little.  This has been the problem with many vitamin or supplement studies...these authors give people cheap poorly absorbed supplements the make a claim that vitamin X doesn't do anything against disease X.  It's also why getting vitamins and minerals in food naturally is the best way to go but....but hell...it's so hard to get every freakin nutrient u need thru food every single day...not impossible but difficult, for me any way.

My mom has tons of these Andrew Lessman vitamins she takes all day. I decided to do a little test and for a couple days take her CoQ10...from day one a couple hours later I was peeling bright yellow...no absorption.  I switch back to the CoQ10 I'm taking and my urine is clear all day.

Not all supplements are made alike.  I'm long winded..sorry. I've done a fair amount of research into this.  The good news is neuteaceutical companies are finding new technology to vastly increase absorption.  If you have time go check out Aterenon Lycopene.  It's the only supplement...I believe..that has truly shown a positive effect on arterial blood flow in a real published study.
Title: Re: CURCUMIN
Post by: pizzaman on September 03, 2015, 03:04:55 PM
I just wanted to mention that curcumin had no effect on my Peyronie's, but it's a great all-around health and anti-inflammatory supplement
Title: Re: CURCUMIN
Post by: Jonbinspain on September 03, 2015, 03:14:58 PM
I never like to decry anything, because I've been here long enough to know that what helps one guy, does nothing for another. However, I would personally agree with pizzaman. I tried curcumin and it did nothing for my Peyronies.
Title: Re: CURCUMIN
Post by: Crooked_Stick on June 23, 2017, 12:56:10 PM
Ok so I tried curcumin for about a year a few years ago and really had zero results. I have been doing a lot of research lately and came across a relatively new preparation called Theracumin. This product solves the problem of historically low bio-availability for regular curcumin. Regular curcumin is not water soluble and so is difficult to breakdown in the gut. Anyway Theracumin has been clinically proven to be 27 times more bio-available. There are now numerous studies that have been completed and many underway showing that curcumin/Theracumin can benefit many inflammatory, fibrotic and cancer maladies. Will it help Peyronie's sufferers? I don't know but I just started a regimen of 180 mg/day of Theracumin and plan on at least 6 months. Cost looks like $55/month.

     https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=theracurmin&cmd=DetailsSearch

Title: Re: CURCUMIN
Post by: goodluck on June 26, 2017, 04:14:05 PM
I also take Theracurmin and feel it is a good form of curcumin.   I can not say if it helps heal peyronies but is does help with pain most anywhere in my body.  I like that you don't have to take it with a meal containing fat like traditional forms of curcumin.  The brand I get is 180 mg per 2 caps.