I saw a post in the compiled thread about another poster who developed Peyronies Disease while on levaquin. I have been on levaquin a few times, but I developed the most rapid / severe case of Peyronies Disease in November / December when I was on levaquin again (the 3rd time I believe). Levaquin is known to damage certain kinds of tissue - particularly the achilles tendon. This damage is observable under the microscope as well - it makes the tissue stiff and inflexible, leading to rupture in some cases. Perhaps it caused changes to the tissue in the penis as well.
I was also on a brief trial of 25 mg lamictal (very low dose) at the time, which is known (also) to cause skin and tissue disorders...but a very different kind (necrotic skin / Stevens-Johnson syndrome)
I am starting to think that my use of quinolone antibiotics over the years due to sinus issues may have led to this - since I had some shrinking going on long before I ever felt scar tissue, saw a curve, or saw hourglassing. Combining that with lamictal could've been the death knell for my penile anatomy... what do u think?
Mike,
I too have taken many rounds of antibiotics for sinus issues! While I cannot remember the specific names of the antibiotics, my penile problems developed shortly after yearly antibiotic use for multiple staff / sinus infections. Once I got so sick I needed a few different types of antibiotics to battle it. What is interesting, is that I never felt I completely recovered from that illness.
This is a very interesting observation... I wonder how many other there are with similar stories. Maybe we could even learn what exactly those antibiotics does to tissues, and benefit from it...
Anything might help.
SSmithe
I had constant post nasal drip and sinus problems on and off for years also with many other symptoms brushed off by doctors as normal. I now use a blood thinning enzyme mix and my sinus problems have vanished. I still have peyronie's but it is getting slightly better and not worse.
I strongly suspect that the blood thinning has allowed my immune system to start functioning normally. Antibiotics never worked for me because the cause was elsewhere!
Good luck
I think sinus issues may be related via the fact they are sort of over-reactive behaviors of the immune system, specifically with regard to inflammation. In my case, I had to have sinus surgery that lasted 4 hours and 100s of polyps were removed (sinus polyps are essentially an inflammatory overreaction to a harmless stimuli like dust). Oddly enough, I barely even have allergies but apparently inside my sinuses, things were haywire as my immune system simply overreacted to anything. The surgery I had was in my mid 20s! I may have to have it repeated at some point too, given my predispositions. Peyronie's disease seems to be somewhat related to a propensity to have an "out of control" inflammatory response and a dysfunctional healing response. So, that's the theoretical connection I see... potentially...though the levaquin / quinolone family of antibiotics certainly has documented effects on tissue particularly in the achilles tendon.
I couldn't help seeing this thread in google so I thought I would join and point out a couple of things. I very seriously doubt fluoroquinolone would have negative effects on Peyronie's at all. In fact, fluoroquinolones have disruptive effects on fibroblast cells and actually impede the formation of scar tissue. These drugs DO have an effect on soft tissues, but that effect is actually a softening effect. I know this is a little dated but you might want to read this patent information:
patentstorm.us/patents/6060474/fulltext.html
A few notable quotes are:
"The present invention is directed to the use of synthetic antibiotics known as fluoroquinolones for preventing scar tissue formation or treating preexisting scar tissue. The invention relates in part to the discovery that fluoroquinolones effectively inhibit the metabolism, proliferation and invasion of fibroblast cells, i.e., fibrosis, associated with detrimental healing processes, and thus inhibit scarring, adhesion formation, and joint stiffness."
And
"The present invention relates to the discovery that a class of synthetic antibiotics known as fluoroquinolones may effectively inhibit scar tissue formation or reduce preexisting scar tissue. More specifically, the invention inhibits fibrosis at the site of a wound or other pathological condition, including inhibition of the metabolism, proliferation, and/or invasion of fibroblast cells, and consequentially, collagen and proteoglycan matrix syntheses. Thus, the invention inhibits the activity of fibroblasts during scar tissue formation. The effect of this action on fibroblast activity is an inhibition of fibrosis at a site where scar tissue should normally form, and thus prevention of scar formation. Therefore, the anti-fibrotic activity of the invention encompasses treatments for preventing or reducing the formation of scar tissue at the site of a wound or lesion in the skin, tissue or organ of an animal. In particular, the invention encompasses, without limitation, treatment of keloidosis, arthrofibrosis, capsular contracture, adhesive capsulitis, scleroderma, skin lesions, surgical adhesions, scar formation, and the like."
So there for I would very seriously doubt taking levaquin would aggravate the issue. Also sinus issues, I would suspect that the inflammation is regional localized to your sinus's. After all in Peyronie's disease its an inflammation of the Tunica Albuginea it's self. It would be difficult to try and make a correlation between sinus problems and a change in the tunica of the penis.
Quote from: PDGuess on January 23, 2011, 05:08:13 PM
I couldn't help seeing this thread in google so I thought I would join and point out a couple of things. I very seriously doubt fluoroquinolone would have negative effects on Peyronie's at all. In fact, fluoroquinolones have disruptive effects on fibroblast cells and actually impede the formation of scar tissue. These drugs DO have an effect on soft tissues, but that effect is actually a softening effect. I know this is a little dated but you might want to read this patent information:
patentstorm.us/patents/6060474/fulltext.html
A few notable quotes are:
"The present invention is directed to the use of synthetic antibiotics known as fluoroquinolones for preventing scar tissue formation or treating preexisting scar tissue. The invention relates in part to the discovery that fluoroquinolones effectively inhibit the metabolism, proliferation and invasion of fibroblast cells, i.e., fibrosis, associated with detrimental healing processes, and thus inhibit scarring, adhesion formation, and joint stiffness."
And
"The present invention relates to the discovery that a class of synthetic antibiotics known as fluoroquinolones may effectively inhibit scar tissue formation or reduce preexisting scar tissue. More specifically, the invention inhibits fibrosis at the site of a wound or other pathological condition, including inhibition of the metabolism, proliferation, and/or invasion of fibroblast cells, and consequentially, collagen and proteoglycan matrix syntheses. Thus, the invention inhibits the activity of fibroblasts during scar tissue formation. The effect of this action on fibroblast activity is an inhibition of fibrosis at a site where scar tissue should normally form, and thus prevention of scar formation. Therefore, the anti-fibrotic activity of the invention encompasses treatments for preventing or reducing the formation of scar tissue at the site of a wound or lesion in the skin, tissue or organ of an animal. In particular, the invention encompasses, without limitation, treatment of keloidosis, arthrofibrosis, capsular contracture, adhesive capsulitis, scleroderma, skin lesions, surgical adhesions, scar formation, and the like."
So there for I would very seriously doubt taking levaquin would aggravate the issue. Also sinus issues, I would suspect that the inflammation is regional localized to your sinus's. After all in Peyronie's disease its an inflammation of the Tunica Albuginea it's self. It would be difficult to try and make a correlation between sinus problems and a change in the tunica of the penis.
Thank you for your opinion levaquin question. There is no debate that levaquin puts people at risk of tendon damage, quinolones have been documented to damage DNA since the 1980s (http://aac.asm.org/cgi/reprint/29/6/1073.pdf) and there are over 1000 lawsuits against the manufacturer due to these issues. So, I do not think it would be completely crazy to think it might be involved in TA micro-trauma (the main theory as to the cause of Peyronies Disease). The scar tissue doesn't form until later (until after you are off the levaquin). So, levaquin's anti-fibrotic effects are not relevant to Peyronies Disease unless someone were taking the drug systemically every day (which nobody does). If levaquin can soften and damage tendons to the point of rupture, can it do the same in the TA? This is an open question. Who knows what it does to the TA. And who knows why it causes tendonitis in some people but not others?
Levaquin is under major scrutiny for a number of issues right now. Although it seems you know a lot about levaquin, I am not sure if you are entirely informed about the latest Peyronies Disease research, particularly the pathophysiology of Peyronies Disease. (Why are you just searching the web for negative posts about levaquin, incidentally? Has Ortho hired a reputation management firm?)
With regard to sinuses, the point is that Peyronies Disease seems to be a wound healing disorder where inflammation is unchecked & out of control... yes, Peyronies Disease is localized to the TA of the penis... but to think it would be 100% isolated (particularly in cases where it appears when no injury has occurred) is not something that I personally believe. Research has shown systemic issues in people with Peyronies Disease such as low testosterone (e.g. Morgentaller, 2010). A generalized hyperactive / auto-immune, over-inflammatory immune response may (and I am just saying "may") be part of all of this. Dr. Levine (one of the main Peyronies Disease researchers) has said (and an AUA "town hall meeting in 2010) that his lab demonstrated that people with Peyronies Disease are lacking the enzyme to turn off the inflammatory process. He didn't specify if that enzyme was only present in the penis... but I'd be surprised if it were only there. This is all speculation, but considering the other skin & wound healing issues I have had (including the sinus issue mentioned here - I have not gone into everything) - I do not think it is isolated. We already know that people with Peyronies Disease are at higher risk of dupuytren's contracture and ledderhose disease - so there is something systemic / genetic going on in some of the Peyronies Disease population (certainly not all). That was my main point at the time I wrote this post about sinus issues. But, since the levaquin question is back on the table - then I would like to know why you believe with 100% certainty that levaquin would not contribute to softening the TA and contributing to the microfractures in the TA that occur with early Peyronies Disease - and then lead to scar tissue 4-6 months later.
So, in conclusion... there are 2 parts here. 1. The tunica has to be weakened through microtrauma or severe trauma (the later is much less common) 2. The tunica repair process has to go out of control and overreact to this trauma. So for 1 - this can be caused by aging, mechanical forces, or possibly chemicals (e.g. levaquin or other substances). 2. When the body tries to heal this problem, it overreacts due to a missing enzyme to stop the process (per Levine). This "missing enzyme" and also the overactivity of the immune system is what I doubt would be a local phenomenon reserved only to the penis...particularly given my correlated health problems and those of the members here.
I've taken it in the past before I developed peyronie's. Also ruptured a tendon in my calf.
I have not taken Levaquin etc but I did badly tear a calf muscle a few months before the peyronie's started. However I was having trouble with sore legs and bruises that would not go away as well as thread veins and stiffness of muscles. I had no injury to trigger the peyronie's. But taking bisoprolol probably made it a lot worse.
I would like to take an antibiotic if I knew that an infection caused peyronie's and I knew which antibiotic would be the right one.
I found that taking Neprinol for 11 months has stabilised my peyronies and I do not get any more pain but I am now taking Heal n Soothe and Active Circulation Formula.
I was on Cipro for about 2 weeks (2 pills a day) starting a little over 3 weeks ago. I always had a slight left-leaning curve, but during the time on Cipro the curve got worse and the characteristic bump under the skin formed (underside to the left).
I've been off the Cipro for about a week and a half now. I wish I would of made the connection sooner as I think the Cipro sped up the process of peyronies because before being on it i never had any bump. During this period I also started to develop a slight hourglass shape that again wasnt present before Cipro.
Its been a week and a half now since Ive been off it and Im praying that it will reverse itself, but I think im probably screwed.
How long have you been off the Levaquin? And have you seen any recovery since quitting?
The number one best way to avoid antibiotics is to make sure your vitamin D levels are at optimal levels (50-70ng/ml). - George
Quote from: torn on March 29, 2011, 07:51:09 PM
How long have you been off the Levaquin? And have you seen any recovery since quitting?
I only took it for the 5-7 days indicated when I was sick... I wasn't on it long term. I think I had a tough sinus infection that put me on it for 10 days but that was the max. Tendon ruptures happen during or after quinolone usage... i don't know why though. The chemical pathway is not clearly explained anywhere that I am aware of...why would this antibiotic would disrupt tendons? And why not for everyone? And if it disrupts tendons, what about the tunica? I haven't had any improvement since taking it (over a year ago). I took it a few times...if it cause any damage, it was probably cumulative.
Has anything changed since you last posted?
Quote from: MikeSmith0 on March 30, 2011, 11:47:02 AM
Tendon ruptures happen during or after quinolone usage... i don't know why though. The chemical pathway is not clearly explained anywhere that I am aware of...why would this antibiotic would disrupt tendons? And why not for everyone?
All of these drugs affect multiple metabolic pathways. Genetics often determine how much stress various metabolic pathways can withstand. Add to that environmental effects that tag and untag genes via epigenetic pathways and you end with a pretty random mix. Some people suffer no ill effects due to "good" genes and no significant environmental damage, others are "accidents waiting to happen" and along comes treatment with Cipro and its like a bowling ball that takes out all the weakened pins in one shot. This whole thing is all about metabolic pathways by which the body manages tissue repair and inflammatory response. And THAT is precisely the path to reversal and healing. - George
Quote from: George999 on March 30, 2011, 01:21:54 PM
This whole thing is all about metabolic pathways by which the body manages tissue repair and inflammatory response. And THAT is precisely the path to reversal and healing. - George
yeah, that's why i think it's almost not really a urology problem...it's basically a wound healing issue. the same people who do burn research should be looking at Peyronies Disease...not urologists. urologists treat prostate cancer, bladder issues, etc... i think one of the reasons Peyronies Disease is so far behind in any advances is that it's way outside their focus.
I hate the fact that I basically did this to myself, first with the pump then then the cipro. I want my normal life back.. I haven't had normal function of my member in over 2 years. When I think back to just 3 years ago and prior I get so sad. From being a normal sexually active guy in my twenties to now this.
The mental anguish is killing me. I try to just not think about it but its impossible. Sex ruled my life.. I never would of.thought that my sexual function would be impaired at such a young age. I'd do anything to go back and change what I did. I can't live the rest of my life like.this..
And knowing that theres no cure makes me lose hope. I just started on ubiquinol and am gonna continue would the vitamin e and fish oil, but I know it probably won't do anything ultimately... but its all I got.
This is beyond depressing its mentally killing me.
Quote from: MikeSmith0 on May 04, 2010, 11:30:23 PM
I saw a post in the compiled thread about another poster who developed Peyronies Disease while on levaquin. I have been on levaquin a few times, but I developed the most rapid / severe case of Peyronies Disease in November / December when I was on levaquin again (the 3rd time I believe). Levaquin is known to damage certain kinds of tissue - particularly the achilles tendon. This damage is observable under the microscope as well - it makes the tissue stiff and inflexible, leading to rupture in some cases. Perhaps it caused changes to the tissue in the penis as well... what do u think?
Yes I agree, I think there could be a connection with Fluoroquinolone (Quinolone) antibiotics. I took Ciprofloxacin twice and Levofloxacin once before developing Peyronies. First time I took Cipro was for a sinus infection in my mid-twenties, afterwards I thought maybe my erections weren't quite as strong but I dismissed the thought almost as soon as I had it. Aged 30 I took Levofloxacin, I had a bad reaction to it and stopped after a few doses, it caused long term complications of tendonitis and vitreous floaters. Aged 33 I took Ciprofloxacin for prostatitis and again developed tendonitis and changes in vision. While I was taking the Cipro I continued to gently stretch my penis every morning in the shower (as usual) until one morning when this caused pain in the connective tissue at the base of the penis on the left hand side. After this I felt that there was a loss of elasticity on that side of the penis but my erections were still straight. Aged 34 over a year after taking the Cipro I developed _new_ onset pain at the base of my penis and curvature to the left...
i have no doubt that my Peyronies Disease was caused by physical injury (slowly over time). however i have been looking for contributing factors to ease my mind somehow.
it started 4 years ago with a very high psa for my age. i was initially treated with flowmax and finasteride. also my uro thought it may be chronic prostatitis so i started a several month course of cipro.
later, my psa was lower, but not enough. i talked the uro out of doing a biopsy and letting me try a 90 day course of ofloxacin based on my own research. it didn't go down enough. i stopped that before the biopsy. shortly after i had the officially diagnosed Peyronies Disease (and by the way i was taking probiotics and eating a cup and a half of plain yogurt at the time, outside of the times i was taking the antibiotics).
the official warning on ofloxacin is: Taking ofloxacin increases the risk that you will develop tendinitis (swelling of a fibrous tissue that connects a bone to a muscle) or have a tendon rupture (tearing of a fibrous tissue that connects a bone to a muscle) during your treatment or for up to several months afterward. These problems may affect tendons in your shoulder, your hand, the back of your ankle, or in other parts of your body.
during the months before the biopsy i had noticed my erections were what i perceived as extremely hard so much that i commented it felt like a rhino horn. in retrospect it was an increasing curve and possible pain.
so fascia and tendon rupture are possible with ofloxacin. what do you think?
I'd actually be more concerned about the finasteride. http://www.propeciasideeffects.com/
Are you trying to find these contributing factors because you feel like you caused the peyronies and want to try and find some outside factor for this happening?
Quote from: 0x5555 on November 07, 2011, 11:56:22 AM
Are you trying to find these contributing factors because you feel like you caused the peyronies and want to try and find some outside factor for this happening?
as far as answering your question: people usually inappropriately internalize or externalize their problems. it's part of coping.
i am simply looking for discussion on a particular topic, which is antibiotics possible role in contributing to Peyronies Disease
Yup. Like I said, not sure about antibiotics but I do know procepia has side effects including ED.
I had peyronie while on noroxin, and one young guy had the same. Just a minor trauma and ...bang... peyronie. I quite sure there is a link between antibiotics and Peyronie.
Ben
!,!
Probably many links! Duyptrens, heart disease, diabeties,blood pressure meds, erectile dysfunction., gout, esophagus reflex, maybe most prominant hardening of arteies dont you think!
When everything gets crimped and broken.there is the major three construction, disease and lathargic episodes.
Fubar
Well, its been about 9 months since developing peyronies while taking cipro.. and I haven't got any better. I OFFICIALLY HATE CULTIVATION IT HAS RUINED MY LIFE. There are so many people who've suffered different severe side effects from that poison, the pharmacuitical companies need to be prosecuted, seriously. Was only on it for 2 weeks and now the rest of my life is ruined.
I too was on cipro when I developed peyronies. My thinking is that if cipro caused this then it is not conventional peyronies and some of the conventional treatments like Pentox will be of no help. Cipro also caused Anal leakage problems and terrible hemorroid flareups which still bother me 2 yrs later. My doc says this is all just a coincidence. I don't agree with him. Sucks.
I did a month of Cipro about 4 or 5 months prior to developing Peyronie's. I wish there were more polls on this forum to explore possible causes like this.
I just posted this in another thread, but I took cipro for a month about 4 to 5 months before developing Peyronies. I too got hemorrhoids just after completing the treatment.
I developed Peyronies Disease while on cipro. Finasteride screws a lot of people up sexually, some have even developed Peyronies Disease while using it.
i definitely think cipro and levaquin cause this... but they dont cause it in enough people (and people dont like telling their doctors about Peyronies Disease) to have gotten this issue to raise red flags. these antibiotics interfere with collagen synthesis - which is proven and published..and part of why it can disrupt tendons. i think it's absolutely responsible for Peyronies Disease in some people...but not everyone who takes cipro will get Peyronies Disease...so the medical community doesn't want to accept this suggestion.
In particular, the young patients - who have very low risk of Peyronies Disease - have often gotten it after taking levaquin or cipro.
propecia also causes problems...but those seem more related to ED .
Mike
You definitly think along the lines of me you and ben.I have had antibiotics during the time before and after the peyronies discovery.To include both or one of those antibiotics mentioned , i will have to check.I also have taken a couple a a couple of blood pressure medicine known to break immune resistance in the body.
I still belive there is a trauma factor involved be it a direct blow or constriction , by way of constriction rings, over pumping using the ved ect.
Fubar
i was on cipro shortly before having noticed some of the first signs of peyronie's....accompanied with self induced trauma via jelquing......
Lespleen
Trauma is always a factor.I know many do not want to reveal that but it is true to our disease. cause and effect. And you are left with what the f*:"%!.
Fubar
Quote from: fubar on December 04, 2011, 01:13:41 AM
Trauma is always a factor.
I agree trauma is the main issue, however, imagine for example i was a body builder and i suddenly after years of weight lifting got a torn tendon or an issue related to my fascia. If I was taking a 6 week course of antibiotics for chronic prostatitis shortly before that and i read the warnings about a precaution that said it may cause tendon and connective issue problems, I would question that.
I started having tendon problems after a couple weeks of quinolone antibiotics for walking pneumonia, then I stopped immediately. I ended up having to go to physical therapy for months, then the Peyronie's struck. It began about 3 months after the Levaquin.
We have to remember though, that floroquinolone antibiotics are prescribed to millions upon millions of people per year, so there's bound to be some overlap between these antibiotics and almost any other conditions. On the other hand, fluoroquinolones do attack collagen containing tissue, which would, I suppose included the tunica. With all due respect to PDGuess, fluoroquinolones suspend fibrosis during the relatively short time they're active in the body only. The issues like tendon ruptures often happen much later on because, as I understand, there's DNA damage done to the soft tissue cells which can compound over time.
I have done a lot of research into this and talked to a molecular biologist PhD about this. There is a clear link between this class of antibiotics and tendon damage, documented in all medical literature on these drugs. The leap to claim that there is a link between these antibiotics and Peyronies Disease is really tiny... these antibiotics DO CAUSE Peyronies Disease, and we are proof of that. The small percentage of people who ruptured tendons shows that it does not happen to everyone - but it DOES happen. The same goes for Peyronies Disease.
I did not sign up to have Peyronies Disease at my age - my life is pretty much ruined and I just turned 30. If I never took levaquin, this never would have happened. I never had an injury. I have no family history. I have no health problems. There is no doubt in my mind about this anymore - zero. Historically it has been unheard of to have Peyronies Disease under 50 years old. Levaquin is new - however, and it has changed things. I have no doubt that it causes the damage that results in Peyronies Disease in SOME people - a smaller percent than those fracturing their tendons, perhaps... but still enough that if they KNEW ABOUT THE TENDONS all along - they should have warned about the tunica of the penis! The tissue is very similar, and so is the damage. However, would ANYONE take an antibiotic that would deform their penis? No - and this is why it was concealed. They made billions off these antibiotics that I certainly never would have taken if I knew had a risk like this.
Please send me a private message if you are one of the people injured by these antibiotics (particularly the younger people on this board - who would NEVER have had Peyronies Disease by any statistical probability were it not for these antibiotics). I would like to start contacting lawyers & moving forward with this - but I cannot do it alone. I am sure it will require calling 20-30 law firms to find someone to take the case & then 5-7 years of litigation, but they need to pay for what they did.
Read more: http://www.schmidtandclark.com/levaquin
MikeSmith0
I don't think my Peyronies is directly connected to antibiotics (who knows) but I wish you
Full success making them to pay for the damage they have done to you and others!
I am praying for your success
James
Thanks James.
It looks like 13 guys here can (at least, roughly) connect Peyronie's directly to quinolone use (though correlation does not imply causation - it's still odd). I did some research and found this quote:
"Quinolones have been known to cause direct toxicity to type 1 collagen synthesis and promote collagen degradation"
The Risk of Fluoroquinolone-induced Tendinopathy and Tendon Rupture (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2921747/)
I've mentioned this to doctors and they think it is absurd because they say "with all the Cipro I give out - I'd have 100 patients with Peyronie's" - well (a) do you have 100 patients which Achilles tendon fractures (which is a warning in the package)? No. Not everyone gets this side effect (only 4%). But, quinolones interfere with collagen synthesis, especially in tendons or tendon-like tissue (see above link). Also (b) Peyronie's develops as a consequence of the damage caused by quinolones. It probably fractures the tunica in microscopic ways, and prevents normal healing. And (c) "plenty of people have Peyronies Disease who never took quinolones". Well, plenty of people who never took quinolones have Achilles tendon fractures too. Anyway, these statements to most doctors fall on deaf ears.
Some other stuff I found:
The odds of tendon rupture are 4.3% from quinolone use. Increased risk of achilles tendon ... [Arch Intern Med. 2003 Aug 11-25] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12912715)
Maybe it's the same for Peyronies Disease. Not high enough % to set off alarms, but enough that it's real.
Quinolones are very dangerous,
I took TEQUIN and it destroyed all my beta cells that made insulin! I became a insulin dependent diabetic...It is not on the market anymore. When you look at the warnings they are not to be used for anyone over 65... I was 47 at the time.! Now that I have! my Peyronies Disease I wonder it that the reason why and it is too late to do anything about it!
Quote from: DO on May 18, 2013, 11:19:13 AM
Quinolones are very dangerous,
I took TEQUIN and it destroyed all my beta cells that made insulin! I became a insulin dependent diabetic...It is not on the market anymore. When you look at the warnings they are not to be used for anyone over 65... I was 47 at the time.! Now that I have! my Peyronies Disease I wonder it that the reason why and it is too late to do anything about it!
Wow - that's terrible. Sorry to hear that. I can't believe a drug could do that to you... did you ever consider suing them? Also, did your Peyronies Disease develop around the time of Tequin or much later? The tendon ruptures can happen within hours to months, according to that research i posted below.
be careful of these, esp levaquin which is prescribed like candy for prostatitis even though it has a black box warning. The reviews read like a modern day horror story of permanent drug induced damage:
http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=20635&name=LEVAQUIN
Avoid antibiotics as much as you can (not always possible).
Less you are using them, better chance that when you will need them they will help, even the basic old ones.
Not scientific approach, just my own experience 8)
James
Count me as another one that developed Peyronie's immediately following a course of Cipro. In my case the Cipro was (mis)prescribed for a MRSA staph infection I got at the incision site following vasectomy. I've always assumed the Peyronie's was a result somehow of the staph infection (which my brother jokingly calls my staff infection) in that area. The Cipro of course did nothing for the infection because it's ineffective against staph. Finally Bactrim cleared it up. Then I got Peyronie's. I'm currently six months into it and it's still progressing rapidly despite Pentox and Colcrys and all the usual supplements.
Interesting theory that perhaps the Cipro is to blame. MikeSmith0, any new news on your research into this?
Wow, just read this whole thread for the first time. Cipro was prescribed to me a year ago when I had a nasty abscess in my jawbone. It didn't kill it so they tried another antibiotic which did. I already had Peyronies Disease but it was stable for the most part, it has gotten progressively worse since that time though. I also developed a c diff infection in my digestive tract that's been bothering me ever since, most likely from the antibiotics, and I'm now on a second round of antibiotics to try and kill the c diff. It's been quite a bad year for me, but at least I know what's been causing it now.
Add me too. I finished a 28 day run of generic Cipro (500MG 2x day). Three days after being off, I had massive pressure at the base of the shaft and going down some. The pressure subsided to just being more of a discomfort now, however I noticed a small lump (hard to see still) on the right side. There is also slight pain/ache/pinch/discomfort when lifting the non-erect penis up, and moving it in general.
Today I am unable to get an erection, though I can feel some pleasure still.
Search around the internet... Cipro and friends are evil drugs.
I have no idea what to do now, I'm 31 and this sucks. I don't really notice any curving yet at least, but the bump is still small, but tender.
Here is a pretty thorough trashing of Cipro like drugs. I took a lot of Cipro over the years and ended up with both Peyronie's and Peripheral Neuropathy. Did Cipro have something to do with that? I really have no way to know, but if you read this article it will give you goosebumps. It is really quite disgusting that the FDA lets the pharmaceutical companies get away with so much. In my case after routinely taking Cipro for years, the docs finally discovered that my urinary tract problem was being caused by inflammation, NOT infection, and after getting my vitamin D levels up and taking some DHEA, I simply don't get infections anymore and even not as much inflammation either.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/09/25/fluoroquinolone-antibiotics.aspx (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/09/25/fluoroquinolone-antibiotics.aspx)
my peyronies started after an injury however at the time I was on antibiotics for a sinus infection as well as steroids
Quote from: Jed on July 16, 2014, 02:36:33 PM
at the time I was on antibiotics for a sinus infection as well as steroids
Jed,
Do you mean anabolic steroids? If so. Did you experience some ED after a cycle?
Not long ago, I read of a bodybuilder who developed Peyronies Disease also, and it came to my mind after reading you. Probably a poor quality erection, after certain roids cycle that caused hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, led to an injury and the antibiotics caused an immune system malfunction (specifically a TGF-β1 increased activity, which is a cytokine).
The supposed process in Peyronies Disease is:
Vascular trauma ---(triggers)---> Release of cytokines --(activates)---> Fibroblast proliferation Collagen production
That's why pentox is supposed to work: by inhibiting TGF-β1.
On its side, Verapamil can reduce fibroblast proliferation, resulting in reduced production of collagen.
I believe, as I've read quite a few papers so far, that independently of the role of any etiological risk factor, the process of development of Peyronies Disease is fairly well known.
So my point is that you shouldn't torment yourselves about having taken antibiotics since many others haven't developed the disease with the same drugs. I don't think antibiotics would be more a contributing factor than a bacterial infection, beta blockers or barbiturates; to give some documented risk factors.
Anyway, to contribute directly to this topic, I'd like to share some information I have been gathering today:
"Ciprofloxacin decreases survival in HT-29 cells via the
induction of TGF-β1 secretion" (HT-29 are cancerous cells by the way)
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1476-5381.2009.00161.x/full (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1476-5381.2009.00161.x/full)
"Bleomycin (BM), a potent antineoplastic antibiotic
increases TGF-beta1 transcription, TGF-beta1 gene expression, and TGF-beta protein"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17387717 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17387717)
"Convincing evidence exists that several other drugs in common use also stimulate TGF-β activity, including
the immunosuppressant antibiotic Rapamycin" (used normally after transplants)
http://cardiovascres.oxfordjournals.org/content/74/2/213.long (http://cardiovascres.oxfordjournals.org/content/74/2/213.long)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12752312?dopt=Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12752312?dopt=Abstract)
But in some cases bacterial activity can increase levels of TGF-β1...
"Rats with chronic colitis showed increased levels of TGF-β1, TNF-α, and collagen in the tissue and a high rate of bowel strictures.
Antibiotic treatment significantly prevented the increase in TGF-β1 and collagen and the formation of strictures. Inoculation of bacterial suspensions into the colonic wall increased tissue TGF-β1 and collagen content. Neutralizing antibody to TGF-β1 prevented collagen deposition."
http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085%2898%2970535-9/abstract (http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085%2898%2970535-9/abstract)
"Videla et al. and Mourelle et al. also showed that
the vancomycin-imipenem combination was superior to single antibiotics, including metronidazole, in experimental colitis induced by trinitrobenzene sulfonic acid (53) and
could prevent fibrosis in these rats with induced colonic ulcers"
http://iai.asm.org/content/69/4/2277.full (http://iai.asm.org/content/69/4/2277.full)
(this quote refers to the study above)
Caesar, Jed is talking about Antibiotics as are used to fight infections, NOT bodybuilding stuff, although those also could possibly contribute to Peyronie's. But the topic here is Antibiotics.
Caesar
If you are deleting a post, the answer to it became meaningless!!!
It is affecting the forum negatively!!!
Please restore your post!!!
James
Thanks James, post restored and increased in content.
Please George999, be easy on me. I understand the importance of sticking to the main topic, but I also find relevant other data that users provide, since correlation doesn't imply causation.
After reading through these posts, I realize that my development of Peyronies Disease occurred shortly after an extended (3 month) use of Doxcycline for Lyme Disease. Has anyone else had a similar experience?
This subject is really making me depressed. After I had the first symptoms in August last year the dumb urologist prescribed cipro to me. I only took it for a few days, but 1000 mg a day. I discovered plaque 3 months later!! Probably without the Cipro it would have never developed. ARGH. This is not post hoc ergo propter hoc, because in my opinion the link between such soft tissue problems and Cipro is just too clear.
When it comes to antibiotics, I think it is important to remember that an antibiotic alone will NOT give you Peyronie's. Peyronie's results from MULTIPLE factors. Antibiotics may be one of them, but it is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY to be the SOLE CAUSE. I also think it is important to understand that medicine has advanced a lot in the last few decades. I grew up in a time when if you complained to a physician about burning on urination, they would simply put you on an antibiotic. As a result I was on multiple antibiotics for years simply because I was experiencing chronic burning on urination. Then doctors started to actually TEST for infection FIRST. At that point they found out that I probably never really had very many infections but that it was mostly inflammation, at least during the later years and I haven't needed antibiotics since. So over the years I was unnecessarily exposed to a huge amount of antibiotics. And, no doubt, that was a factor related to my contracting Peyronie's, But there were a host of other factors as well that converged in the process. In my case it was overweight, high blood sugar, hypertension, lack of exercise, beta-blockers, the list goes on and on. So remember, antibiotics are just one factor of many.
Do you guys think the general antibiotics like amoxicillan and penicillin cause peyronies? or just cipro and levaquin?
We don't know for sure without studies. It's the same with the poison they put into your food, Ractopamine. It's related to Beta Blockers which are now pretty much proven to be contributor to Peyronie's.
so emasculated....this is all strange crazy coincidence that these guys got peyronies right after taking levaquin and cipro? and btw guys....do you think normal antibiotics like penicillin or amoxicillin can cause peyronies? because if anything I will take those instead and do research to see what antibiotics theyd give me before nose surgery
Quote from: powderpowder on August 05, 2014, 03:09:56 PM
Shortly after I had a sexual injury with my girlfriend where I heard the "pop" noise and loss of erection (not a penile fracture but a small trauma) which I then developed Peyronies.
Do you guys think the general antibiotics like amoxicillan and penicillin cause peyronies? or just cipro and levaquin?
I think it was due to the trauma. There are mixed opinions as to whether medications add to or lessen the possibility.
emasculated,
When I first went in with Peyronie's problems at age 18 I was put on cipro and beta blockers. What a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Totally feel your pain man, we have the right to be outraged.
Wow - my 4 year old thread is still somewhat active... well.. . sadly, no research has been done though I have spoken with a few epidemiologists. Not many people have access to the data that would be needed to do a study on this.
Btw - there is virtually no reason to ever take quinolones & they have many more side effects than tendon damage. Doctors got lazy and overused them, rather than learning the list of 40 cephalosporins or tetracyclines. Every doctor just wants to write a RX for cipro...but doxycycline or cefprozil or augmentin - can call cure the same exact infections if the MD would bother to spend another 10 seconds thinking. I just say I'm allergic to quinolones and magically I get a totally different antibiotic from another class that cures whatever issue I've had.
Now that I think about it, about a month before I developed Peyronies Disease in 1/2013, I had been on antibiotics the month before. Don't remember which one, but it was brief, maybe a 10-15 day supply. I'm going to hunt down my Uro and see what he prescribed me back in 12/2012 and I'll report back here.
I have been taking ciprofloxacin over a month for a prostatitis, and develop Peyronie.
finally resulted inflammatory prostatitis and not an infection.
Beware of the cipro
I just start to get some symptoms of Peyronie one month after a one week course of Levaquin. At the same time I got a start of Dupuytren on my hand. I also think the levaquin could have been the trigger. A question for the people who are in the same case: what was the evolution of the disease after you stopped taking the medicine, did it eventually got better?
I had a horrible reaction to Cipro 3 months ago, and just recently developed what I believe to be Peyronies, I dont have a diagnosis yet but suddenly my erect penis is curved. I do not recall a trauma of any kind. When I learned that Peyronies might be what is causing the sudden curvature, immediately I suspected Cipro as the cause as I have had so many problems in the past 3 months, muscle/tendon issues, peripheral neuropathy, brain-fog etc. This forum thread was the first result that google showed me when searching for a connection between Peyronies and Fluoroquinolones. I believe Fluoroquinolones to be absolutely poisonous to a (large) minority, there are several groups on social media with many thousands of members adversely affected by these drugs. Whenever I think this crap cant get any worse it just gets worse, Cipro is the gift that keeps on giving.
I am also sure that antibiotic I was taking before Peyronies was a contributing factor, but had other factors more heavy on the scale.
Proposing to read Gorge999 post « Reply #51 on: July 27, 2014, 01:15:07 AM » on this topic
James
I've just started (just two days in) a round of 14 days of cipro for a bacterial prostatitis (enterococcus faecalis showed up in a semen culture)
Just find this post and I'm freaking out.
I already have peyronies but I'm really scared it can worsen due to cipro.
Don't know what to do. I have prescription for other antibiotic called Nitrofurantoin.
If I stop now after only 2 days do you think there is still risk of future damage?
You can eat yogurts, kefir and other fermented foods but you need ones with live active bacteria, i ferment yogurt, water kefir and vegetables at home its not too hard
Quote from: Juan on December 18, 2021, 06:00:59 PM
I've just started (just two days in) a round of 14 days of cipro for a bacterial prostatitis (enterococcus faecalis showed up in a semen culture)
Just find this post and I'm freaking out.
I already have peyronies but I'm really scared it can worsen due to cipro.
Don't know what to do. I have prescription for other antibiotic called Nitrofurantoin.
If I stop now after only 2 days do you think there is still risk of future damage?
Just for the records,
I had to stop cipro after only 4 pills due to side effects (pain in both knees ans achiles). I've been floxed by cipro. One new thing I've learnt...new Reddit comunity joined etc...more weight for my backpack
I'm 5 days out of cipro and my both achiles tendons are better but still hurt and feel tired, weak...
IMPORTANT: pain in erection state during nte has returned.
I don't blame myself for taking this crap. I knew the pros and cons. Knew the odds. Talked with up to 4 uros, 1 general practitioner, 3 pharmacists...all of them told me I had to take it due to infection and it was very very rare to experience the severe side effects. I was desperated after more than 3 months suffering perineal pain, HF and burn in the tip of urethra after ejaculating and coccyx pain which could be related to all the mesh in that area....so I accepted taking it.
Now I'm with amoxicillin.
What can I do now in regard of my peyronies? Avoid sex/masturbation? Till when...there is no way to know when you are out of danger (even we don't even know if there is actually a real connection between cipro-peyronies)
The die is cast
I think most of the danger after taking an antiobiotic is developing SIBO and/or candida overgrowth, which can trigger autoimmune symptoms.
im having a surgery soon and they will give me antibotic while im under anesthesia, im planning to take natural anti-bacterial supplements and mct oil after that to attempt avoiding that overgrowth risks and repopulate the gut after that with fermented foods all while following a diet low in FODMAP and low glycemic index carbohydrates, or maybe no carbs for a short while except for certain vegetables and maybe some berries.
And then start adding the prebiotics
I never write for fluoroquinolones. Read too many horror stories.
Hi there,
I think I have the same problem as you do.
In 2020, I had a long-term penile inflammation which was really hard to treat. I visited tens of different doctors trying to find out what the problem was, and there were different diagnosis like staphyloccocus infection, STI or lichen sclerosus. While none of these confirmed, I was prescribed a ridiculous amount of antibiotics.
That is to say, circumcision really helped the penile inflammation I had but then I was taking lots of antibiotics before and after the surgery. I also took Tricaside for trichomoniasis (for about 10 days, it was horrible : no appetite, sick and stomach issues) and later levoflaxacin (for 10 days as well). Then I developed Peyronies a few months after.
The bizarre thing is that it was in 2020 but now it's 2022 and I'm still developing Peyrony plaques. I think my problem must be related to this overuse of antibiotics, I've found no other expalanation - I'm quite healthy otherwise (million blood and other tests confirm).
It seems I have also developed some kind of an autoimmune disease because of all this. I assume that my long-term inflammation and the excessive use of medication had caused an autoimmune disease which, in its turn, caused Peyronies - perhaps.
Do you think there is a way to 'reset' the body after long-term use of antibiotics? I was planning to buy some probiotics but don't think it's going to help in any way. Perhaps I should do fasting or change my diet? Asssuming there's a DNA damaged caused by excessive use of antibiotics, do you think it will stay this way forever or there have been cases when it returned to normal?
Also, those people who are good at chemistry might be interested in this article: https://www.hindawi.com/journals/omcl/2017/8023935/
Quote
(a)Long-lasting OS destroys the mitochondrial DNA and the newly synthesized proteins creating cytochrome complexes are disturbed in their structure leading to permanent electron leakage and OS.(b)The complexes of FQ with proteins and cations are so stabile that they exist in the cells by many years disturbing energy production and epigenetics.(c)Epigenetic changes in gene regulation become persistent many years of FQ application even in the case of lack of FQ in the cell.