Peyronies Society Forums

Hello guys,

I've been on Pentox, L-Arg, and Vit E for a litle over two weeks now.  I recently lowered the pentox from 3 to 2 per day because I am trying to figure out what is causing me these weird symptoms.  

My lips are so chapped, I have to use chapstick about 5 times a day (it's not due to the weather...though that doesn't help) and my sleep has been consistently bad - even if I take it 4+ hrs before bedtime w/ food.  I am a light sleeper, but I've been waking up numerous times per night & then too early in the AM & I can't go back to bed.  

I can live w/ the chapped lips, but I've been a bit of a zombie lately & really need some normal sleep.  

I don't know if L-Arg or pentox might be causing this.  I read this article that seems to say that "Reducing Nitric Oxide Gas In The Brain May Help Us Stay Awake"

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/09/060908094456.htm

So, doesn't l-arganine (and viagra) in the PAV cocktail in general increase nitric oxide?  So, wouldn't it make sleep worse?  

Even more confusing, there's a whole thread here (http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=29573&hl=oxide) where people are saying L-arganine helps them sleep...Do we have a scientist in the house?  This is very confusing.  I am seeing a new doc this week but it's a general uro and I know he's gonna be a pain about all of this (and not know anything).

Anyway, thanks for any thoughts.

Are you arousing because of sleep apnea? That in turn could be because of increased nasal congestion (the chapped lips?). If at all congested, try Afrin nasal spray to see if it opens you up enough to sleep better Otherwise no ideas.

Tim

Thanks Tim.  I didn't wake up this often before I started the meds.  I might go off for a week and see what happens.  My nose/nasal breathing is pretty much ok.

I use a spray system called Neilmed to break up the mucus in my sinuses. It can be purchased at drug stores. You basically shoot salt water in your nostrils.

A lot of people have trouble sleeping with pentox. It is best to take it with an early dinner, not late at night.

I experienced my first Pentox related sleepless night last night. I have been on it for 4 days now and I have noticed that I always feel as if I need to swallow and that the sensation is as if it will never go all the way down. I have also had what seems like never ending heart burn. It was so bad that even taking a Pepcid AC only knock the edge off for about an hour. Is this normal or does it get better as your body adjusts?

I didn't have a problem with the pentox, more so with the l-arginine the first few days. I know it was the l-arginine since I started taking it before the pentox. I had trouble sleeping and felt a little heartburn and headache the first 3 or 4 days.

I hope that you guys are taking your Pentox WITH food and no later than 8PM.  If you are not, that *might* be contributing to the problem.  - George

Arginine definitely helps me sleep, and helps with nocturnal erections.

Greetings,

This is my first ever post  ;)  I cannot tell you how appreciative I am that this forum exists..

I am bi-polar..I have been taking medication for this since July 2009.  Depakote, Seroquel, Klonopin.

For my Peyronies Disease.. Dr. Lue prescribed Pentox...I tried to take Pentox on two different occasions...on both occasions a few days in to treatment I had very strange emotional responses and vivid suicidal thought processes...

Has anyone here ever heard, read or experienced depression, emnotional or suicidal thoughts while taking Pentox?

Thanks for your time,
Prayers to all of you!

-m

Hi Briden,

Dr. Lue was one of my urologists as well and I was on pentox for 8 months. I DID NOT experience any psychological issues with this medication. I did have some minor nausea and occasional dizziness if I took the doses too close together.

I have not seen any responses on this forum yet regarding depression or emotional issues while taking pentox. That doesn't mean it can't happen.

Just an aside: could these thoughts have arisen due to the incredible mental stresses Peyronie's disease causes? I certainly felt very angry and, I don't know how to say this but maybe "less concerned with my own safety" when I was first diagnosed with the disease (detachment maybe?). I started feeling better 4 months into taking pentox as my pain during erection started going away. I don't think that my emotional response was due to pentox but due instead to the disease because I was pissed off and angry at the world before I started the medication. I saw a family therapist for a few months to deal with the emotional strain and it was a big help. Just a thought.

Best of luck,
Skjald

Quote from: Briden on March 18, 2010, 02:44:25 AM
Greetings,

This is my first ever post  ;)  I cannot tell you how appreciative I am that this forum exists..

I am bi-polar..I have been taking medication for this since July 2009.  Depakote, Seroquel, Klonopin.

For my Peyronies Disease.. Dr. Lue prescribed Pentox...I tried to take Pentox on two different occasions...on both occasions a few days in to treatment I had very strange emotional responses and vivid suicidal thought processes...

Has anyone here ever heard, read or experienced depression, emnotional or suicidal thoughts while taking Pentox?

Thanks for your time,
Prayers to all of you!

-m

Briden,

I know at least one member on this forum has reported psychological symptoms similar to yours.  His username is Woodman.  Either run a search of his posts or send him a PM.  He's a very helpful and friendly guy and I'm sure he'd be glad to discuss this issue.  Good luck.

Fred

 It is chemically related to a stimulant.

I had intense agitation and short temperdness at the 3 pills per day.  I'm on 2 a now and don't have that.   If you have suicidal thoughts you should wane yourself off the drug immediately.  I'm not a confrontational person to much, but on three per day I notice I was  becoming very angry at people and agitated with family member habits more than normal.  If your mixing drugs that can cause sucidal or depressive thoughts, these should be taken seriously, I've heard some people say just get over it, don't take this approach!!

Comebackid

Mike and ComeBack,

Were you both taking the pentox with food?  I know  George said he always took his with food (the more food the better, I believe he said).  He said he never had any serious side effects and took it for 2 years 3x per day.  Also maybe 2x a day is enough.  I believe they used 400 mg 2x per day in the Iranian study did they not?.  Don't know about the side effects myself, as I've never taken pentox, but I'd gladly give it a try if I could find a uro who would prescribe it.

Fred

I appreciate the feedback from each of you!

My (2) attempts at taking Pentox were last Aug...then again in Oct...on both attempts I had the very strange emotional thought processes..elevated anxiety, agitation, etc..usually about 3 days to a week into taking the pills. I had never before or since felt these emotions etc..

My psychiatrist and I feel that I have reached balance with my bi-polar condition and have discussed giving pentox a third and final chance...we will do so if Dr. Lue deems that Cochicine alone is not helping...I am in the 3rd week of a 3 month Colchicine treatment..I will see Dr. Lue again for comparisons in progression..

If and when I begin Pentox again for a final test..I will report if I am able to continue and whether or not it happens again..

Thanks again,
Briden

I tried taking it with food and it didn't really help.    I also tried pycogenol (sp?) but it seems useless and is expensive.

Some have reported good results with ALC.

Fred

Bipolar disorder could be seen as a fluctuation between blood flow in certain regions of the brain. If your systemic blood flow is suddenly improving due to something other than natural causes (i.e. a pharmaceutical agent) then it could aggravate your bipolar symptoms. Others have suggested lowering the dose and titrating (increasing over time), which is probably a good idea.

Hi All

I just wanted to report some success I have had in treating my peyronies disease with a combination of supplements and medication.

I am currently taking 3000 mgs of actyl l carnatine daily, and 3 doses of pentox, I have been on this regiment for 5 months now. The plaque nodules seem to have reduced in size and become a bit softer (my urologist was pretty impressed with the results). The curvature however hasn't seemed to have changed much. Not a miracle sure but I am pretty sure there has been some adequate improvement.

Another interesting side effect is that immanently after starting the actyl l carnatine I noticed some changes in some benign growths I had on my skin -- these growths started scabbing up, becoming a bit broader but overall smaller in size, softer, colored pink instead of white, and started having hair grow out of them again. These changes continued to escalate (except for the scabbing up which is less common now) and some of the growths have gone from being very pronounced to almost none existent. I found this side effect some how heartening and interesting (since it shows the actyl l carnatine definitely is doing something soft tissue related).

Just wanted to let you all know my findings.

WF

I noticed in the VED study that there was a mention of those with softer scar tissue making good progress. Maybe as you have noticed positive aspects, but no curvature changes, this could be a good option for you. Alternatively traction might help too. How many degrees are we talking in terms of current curvature? 

Here's hoping that you continue to see positive changes with the pentox and ALC!

I started Pentox yesterday and I am definitely experiencing some heightened indigestion, which I know isn't all that unusual with this medication. I'm just wondering if an antacid like Prilosec would be alright to take or is there something else that would be better to take? I know some antacid's can affect the absorption of some medication's so I just want to be sure. I don't want to take something that wouldn't get me the full affect of the Pentox.

I ALWAYS take it after eating about half of my meal, and I don't have any discomfort.  NEVER on an empty stomach or before eating.

Quote from: nebula on October 22, 2010, 07:42:14 PM
I started Pentox yesterday and I am definitely experiencing some heightened indigestion, which I know isn't all that unusual with this medication. I'm just wondering if an antacid like Prilosec would be alright to take or is there something else that would be better to take? I know some antacid's can affect the absorption of some medication's so I just want to be sure. I don't want to take something that wouldn't get me the full affect of the Pentox.

I had taken pentox from 2004-06 and it helped with my peyronies.I had a bad back and was taking 12-20 ibuprofen pills a day.In short i ruined my stomach with all these pills and developed gastritis.I have been taking prilosec twice a day for 2 years while taking one pentox pill a week before masturbation.The pentox seemed to help with pain short term.I am trying to get back on the pentox but was wondering if anyone has taken it while having an ulcer or severe stomach issues like gastritis?As far for other side effects does anyone get headaches or very light headed taking it, to the point they feel completely out of it even after eating food?I took the pentox for years with no issues until i had stomach problems.I am trying to find out other people's experiences with side effects especially if they have stomach issues.thanks
jesse

It's sad to hear about your stomach problems. Taking too much of any drug can become an issue. I've posted a few times about how I believe that topical ibuprofen (http://www.peyronies-disease.co.uk/2010/11/topical-ibuprofen.html) is a better choice, as much less of it enters the rest of the body, but it's just as effective. That's according to knee pain studies at least - there are no peyronie's specific studies.

I'm unsure of how these issues will impact your ability to take pentox on a more frequent basis. Hopefully somebody else can chip in, on this issue. I have my fingers crossed for you. Out of curiositiy, did pentox help you with your curvature at all, or solely the pain?

I had some issues with disturbed sleep. I would wake up at about 4-5am and couldnt get back to sleep right away. But that seemed to have dissapeared within the first 2 weeks.

Also some good side effects to report. The pain seeems to have gotten alot better since starting pentox (knock on wood). I just seem to not be bothered by it as much lately, and feeling much more hopeful for the future. Still no plaque or curve, thank god.

Has anyone had any success using Pentox for ED ?

Quote from: pichou on December 21, 2010, 11:30:48 AM
Has anyone had any success using Pentox for ED ?

It's hard to know what has and hasn't helped me with regard to ED. I did have weak erections and a lack of night time erections, and now that is much improved. Pentox likely helps but I also took cialis, pycnogenol and l-arginine for an extended period of time (and still occasionally), and I think the ability to achieve strong erections over that time has helped me after that. There are a few studies that show pentox to be useful in combatting ED.

Here my personal experience with pentox (trental 400): I tried in 3 occasions to use trental;first I took for about 8 weeks 3pills a day but I suspended cause a sense of acid at/from my stomach(10years ago I suffered for gastritis so I know its symptoms). Passed some time I tried again: 2pills a day; I gave up for the same reason after 1month. Last time I gave up (definitively!) after only 2 weeks.
I never noticed some effect on my (actually not good) capacity to substain erections. In any case, I generally don't fell real pain for peyronie but a sort of swarming, more restlessing than painful. Very recently I don't even feel swarming but I am not sure about reason for. I take now (only1month) magnesium and I am waiting to comb it with pycnogenol and ubiquinol.
Buona fortuna a tutti!
Italiano

Italiano, did you take your trental with big meals? I think this is key to avoiding stomach problems with pentox.

I've been on trental for 2 months now @ 2x a day. I eat them with a big hearty meal in the morning and at supper. No issues with stomach or erection problems what so ever.

Italiano,

I took pentox for 8 months with very few problems. The only time I had problems was when I took it with acidic food like orange juice, vinaigrette salad dressing or the red sauce used in Italian food :( However, breads or pastas with cream sauce was fine!

-Skjaldborg

Frieds, I don't generally eat too mach: I am diabetic and my breakfast and supper are restrained. In the morning I eat aroun 35 grams of complex carboidrates with a short cup of milk and then espresso, at evening  75 grams of bread with protein, vegetable and fruit. At lunch I have a little revenge and I can eat pasta(around80grams),protein,bread(50grams),vegetable and fruit(in this period I don't even drink my favorit red wine). Most of times I avoid acid foods for preventing gastritis. I still avoid fat foods for a problem of "fat liver", caused by combo diabet and meds.
So, I think you are rigth about the opportunity to absum trental with big meals but for me it is really important to have the best glicemic control and it is difficult eat enaugh to protect stomach. The good thing of mediterrean diet is presence of foods rich of vit E and C and other important elements. Very good for general health, not risolutive for aur specific problem.
In any case I diden't notice some help of trental for my erections.
Italiano

I'm just wondering if there is any known correlation between taking Pentox and experiencing Hair Loss? I've had some shedding issues this past year but they seem to have accelerated around the time I started taking Pentox, which was two months ago. They could be totally unrelated, but I just wanted to see if anyone else has experienced this or knows of any potential correlation.

I can't say that I've noticed this. Could it be stress related? Maybe others can chime in.

I haven't seen one piece of info describing hair loss as a side effect of pentox.  When I was on pentox I noticed the following side effects: increased sweating, minor constipation/dry crap, mild dry mouth every morning and a thirst for water all day, some dry skin, headaches daily due to something with my sinuses, post nasal drip in the morning especially, shortness of breathe going up stairs or working out.

After awhile I got used to the side effects, but when I went off the drug for a break it felt good to get rid of some of these nuisance side effects, however the results were def. worth tolerating them cause this drug actually works.

Comebackid

I was looking around the web for information on Hair Loss and I stumbled upon this:

QuoteHair Loss from Blood Thinners

Blood thinners are commonly used in many types of surgical procedures. These anti-coagulants help save many lives. Unfortunately, they often have several side effects. One of these is medical hair loss.

Hair loss from blood thinners occurs because the scalp isn't receiving the blood flow it needs to remain healthy. As a result, the hair begins to fall out. It's similar to what patients taking chemotherapy go through. Of course, hair loss from blood thinners is only a temporary condition. It usually subsides when the patient stops taking the treatment.

- hairlosstreatment.net

So, if there is any truth to this, I guess it is possible that Pentox is (at least partly) the reason I've been losing so much hair lately.

I'm torn; I kind of want to stop the Pentox for a little while and see if the hair loss slows down at all because it's starting to become fairly noticeable but at this point I'm about 3 months into it and being that it's one of the most effective treatments against Peyronie's Disease right now, I don't really wanna give up on it.   

I don't think it is considered a blood thinner really...not at the level of coumadin or heparin.  I don't think it's even in that drug class.  It improves blood flow but not via those mechanisms.

Vitamin E is a blood thinner also and it certainly is *not* known to cause hair loss.  So the problem is specific to CERTAIN blood thinners that have specific effects on circulation.  - George

Yeah, I wasn't implying that I believe EVERY blood thinner could potentially cause hair loss, I was just saying that I've read there is a correlation with some and being that Pentox is considered to be a blood thinner, I thought it MIGHT have something to do with it. You guys are probably right when you say it's doubtful Pentox would cause hair loss...it's just that I'm getting desperate so I'm looking at every single thing in my life that could be causing it. I just couldn't help but notice that my shedding increased right around the time I started taking the Pentox, although I realize this could also just be coincidental.

Doesn't Pentox slightly suppress the immune system? If so it would be good for treating hair loss, rather than bad.

For the past several weeks I have been off center with a fluish like sick feeling in my head.  I'm tired all of the time.  I think it must be from the pentox or ubiquinol.  Has anyone else experienced this?
Hornman

Are you on any other medications? I've had no problem with either. Maybe others have had similiar experiences though?

Quote from: hornman on March 03, 2011, 08:40:46 PM
For the past several weeks I have been off center with a fluish like sick feeling in my head.  I'm tired all of the time.  I think it must be from the pentox or ubiquinol.  Has anyone else experienced this?
Hornman

yeah, the pentox is not letting you get quality sleep... half a dozen people mentioned this here already.  you can go down to 800 mg but it's not really therapeutic below that.  not sure it is even therapeutic at that level.  it never seemed to help me much... just messed up my sleep making me tired all the time - just like you described. are you noticing more frequent awakenings at night?  you might not notice it but it's showing up in your daily mood.

i havent experienced any ubiquinol side effects to my knowledge.

I believe there are things that can greatly reduce medication side effects.  Like taking CoQ10 along with them AND by making sure your vitamin D levels are 50ng/ml or higher.  Many medications actually cause side effects in part by lowering serum levels of these nutrients and thus cause a cascade of nutrient deficiencies.  So if you are having problems tolerating meds, you might want to look into these issues.  They are NOT the solution in every case, for sure, but they can often be helpful in solving side effect problems.  - George

I was on pentox for 8 months and I did notice occasional sleep disturbances and kind of a strange fuzzy/dizzy feeling but only when I took the dosages too close together. Try to take them 6 hours apart and always with food. Try to limit caffeine too as pentox plus coffee can make you jittery.

Pentox was beneficial for me and I think it's worthwhile to stick with the full dose for at least a few months and then go to a lower dosage after that. Talk to your doctor about the details, of course.

-Skjald

Thanks for your replies.  I must have been incubating the flu.  I've been sick in bed for the past 3 days.  It's good to know it probably wasn't from the Pentox.

Hornman

For the past week I have been using a product called Stabilium 200 (http://www.iherb.com/Allergy-Research-Group-Nutricology-International-Yalacta-Stabilium-200-30-Capsules/4529?at=0) which is marketed as a solution for anxiety.  Years ago I took Klonopin/Clonazepam for anxiety and never have found anything as effective since.  But Klonopin is essentially a controlled substance and getting a doc to prescribe it is nearly impossible.  They much prefer Xanax or Valium, neither of which were helpful for me.  Things like Valerian did the job, but nowhere to the degree of Klonopin.  But now I have found something, which seems to actually be *better* than Klonopin.   Stabilium 200 (http://www.iherb.com/Allergy-Research-Group-Nutricology-International-Yalacta-Stabilium-200-30-Capsules/4529?at=0) immediately lowered my blood pressure significantly, which for me is a marker of significantly decreased anxiety.  It also has improved my sleep noticeably.  As such, it might be worth a shot if you have anxiety issues with Pentoxifylline.  ADDITIONALLY, I believe that anxiety and stress aggravate Peyronie's directly, so it might help in more ways than one.  A very concise description of what this substance is can be found on ehow.com (http://www.ehow.com/way_5221186_sea-used-reduce-anxiety-stress.html) for those of you who might be interested.  - George

I'd be interested in this product as I do have problems with anxiety. The problem is that I already feel like a walking pharmacy. My current regime looks like this:

- Pentox 3x a day
- ubiquinol 3x a day
- NKO (nuptune krill oil) 3x a day
- cialis 2.5mg daily at night

I really need something like stabilium 200 to help with my anxiety but think I have to drop something. I'm thinking about ditching the ubiquinol as I am still having a problems with pain anyway. Can I take the stabilium 200 with my pentox and krill oil? Would my insurance possibly cover stabilium (I'm thinking no)? If I can get Klonopin prescribed, is it as good as stabilium 200? and is there any sides you know of with klonopin?

Thanks

Stabilium consists of fish peptides, not likely to seriously conflict with anything else.  Insurance will not pay since its a supplement.  The problem with Klonopin is that it is potentially addictive and tends to develop tolerance.  - George

Thanks George,

Since Stabilium 200 lowers blood pressure, is it safe with pentox and cialis, which these both can lower blood pressure as well?

It would only be a problem for those with hypertension.  These kinds of substances usually do not lower BP for normotensive people.  I have never heard of Pentox lowering BP, in fact if anything, it raised mine.  Cialis can lower BP when used with certain heart meds, but I don't think it lowers BP on its own.  - George

Thanks again George, I'm gonna give this stuff a try, I could really use some help in this department.

I'm convinced now. We are all just little Georges running around here 8)

How do you dose this stuff George? Did you start off taking more at the start then back off abit once it's built up in the system?

I'm pretty much just following the instructions on the label.  - George

I would caution that although this stuff certainly *seems* to be working well for me, the objective evidence for it is nowhere near as good as the evidence for Pentoxifylline and Ubiquinol.  Certainly it is for anxiety and the other two are for Peyronie's.  But although I am impressed with Stabilium, it is short on objective evidence and that needs to be noted.  - George

For sure George. It's worth a shot. Yeah, I'm not sure ubiquinol is doing much for me. I like to keep my regime very simple with little room for interactions and easy maintenance (not popping a billion pills). It is a tough call though since Ubiquinol has so much evidence behind it but something has to go. I could always get back on it too.

Quote from: George999 on April 06, 2011, 11:04:27 AM
For the past week I have been using a product called Stabilium 200 (http://www.iherb.com/Allergy-Research-Group-Nutricology-International-Yalacta-Stabilium-200-30-Capsules/4529?at=0) which is marketed as a solution for anxiety.  Years ago I took Klonopin/Clonazepam for anxiety and never have found anything as effective since.  But Klonopin is essentially a controlled substance and getting a doc to prescribe it is nearly impossible.  They much prefer Xanax or Valium, neither of which were helpful for me.  Things like Valerian did the job, but nowhere to the degree of Klonopin.  But now I have found something, which seems to actually be *better* than Klonopin.   Stabilium 200 (http://www.iherb.com/Allergy-Research-Group-Nutricology-International-Yalacta-Stabilium-200-30-Capsules/4529?at=0) immediately lowered my blood pressure significantly, which for me is a marker of significantly decreased anxiety.  It also has improved my sleep noticeably.  As such, it might be worth a shot if you have anxiety issues with Pentoxifylline.  ADDITIONALLY, I believe that anxiety and stress aggravate Peyronie's directly, so it might help in more ways than one.  A very concise description of what this substance is can be found on ehow.com (http://www.ehow.com/way_5221186_sea-used-reduce-anxiety-stress.html) for those of you who might be interested.  - George

George...This sounds interesting.  Have you noticed any side effects?  Pretty expensive...does iHerb have the best price?...Fred

I haven't noted any side effects at this point.  What really surprised me is not seeing a BP spike when I ate salty food at a memorial service.  This is pretty unusual for me since salty food always pushes up my BP.  I have also been using Valerian Nightime again and Bio-active Milk Peptides.  But I think it is the Stabilium that is really doing the trick for me.  It may be available for a lower price than iHerb, all I know is that iHerb's price is less than LEFs.  Actually it looks like this place (http://www.vitaglo.com/nr71150.html) has it on sale right now.  And here (http://www.supersup.com/supplements-formulas/stress/stress/-anxiety/stabilium.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=pfeed&utm_term=713947711501&utm_campaign=gb) is another low cost vendor.  - George

One side effect I've noticed with this medicine is a distinct shortness of breath when going up steps or walking fast or running while on pentox, its clear the pentox is causing it since I used to be an avid runner.  Has anyone noticed this?  When I stopped pentox it went away, but not totally, but a lot better.  Also I've had a like mini stabbing pain in my heart or a stabbing quick one time pain in my neck.  I went to the cardiologist a year ago and they told me everything is normal with my heart, and a normal EKG.  I read somewhere that pentox can cause heart angina, maybe doctor tim could way on it.  There is no pattern to this needle like pain in my heart, and I'm not sure its actually my heart.  However the shortness of breathe seems suspicious and clearly linked to pentox.  I've also seen noticeable improvement everytime I'm on pentox, my penis gets softer and more flexible, I gain size, and curve gets less, better erections as well.

Comebackid

Hey comebackkid,

I've been on Pentox for about 5 weeks now and have not had any side effects as of yet.  Not seen any improvements either but i'm not expecting to yet.  I went to the gym the other night and spent half an hour on the treadmill  and then went on a bike and had no problems with my breathing.  

Fred's question about side effects here was about side effects for Stabilium, NOT for Pentox.  I am suggesting that Stabilium might actually reduce Pentox side effects by countering Pentox's effect on the brain that seems to induce anxiety.  Anxiety reverberates through the body and can cause things like shortness of breath and angina.  Stabilium is a fish extract that has a calming effect and thus might dampen the effects of Pentox.  - George

Quote from: George999 on April 08, 2011, 09:16:34 PM
I haven't noted any side effects at this point.  What really surprised me is not seeing a BP spike when I ate salty food at a memorial service.  This is pretty unusual for me since salty food always pushes up my BP.  I have also been using Valerian Nightime again and Bio-active Milk Peptides.  But I think it is the Stabilium that is really doing the trick for me.  It may be available for a lower price than iHerb, all I know is that iHerb's price is less than LEFs.  Actually it looks like this place (http://www.vitaglo.com/nr71150.html) has it on sale right now.  And here (http://www.supersup.com/supplements-formulas/stress/stress/-anxiety/stabilium.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=pfeed&utm_term=713947711501&utm_campaign=gb) is another low cost vendor.  - George

Never heard of vitaGlo or SuperSupplements.  Does anyone know if they are a reliable vendor. Their price sure beats the iHerb price, but then I've done business with iHerb and know them to be very reliable and honest. 

Anybody notice a marked decline in libido while on pentox for < 3 months? Perhaps some of the anxiety experienced while on the drug has some effect on libido?

My erectile function went up, not too sure about libido, I can never separate it from being able to get a hard on. It is a mild pde 5 inhibitor after all.

It does increase blood flow to the penis, but I do not believe it is a PDE5 inhibitor.

I think what you're experiencing is lack of libido due to stress/ anxiety.  Pentox early on can cause excess anxiety, but this should disappear with time.  Willis is right, it is not a pde5 inhibitor, but a pde inhibitor.  It does increase blood flow to the lower extremities including the penis, but doesn't quite work like pde5s such as viagra, levitra, etc.

It is a general pde inhibitor which means it inhibits pde 1 - 5.

Thus a mild pde 5 inhibitor.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19232362

Quotepentoxifylline (PTX), a PDE 1-5 inhibitor

Thanks,
Another reason why I like this forum. Constantly learning something new.

Quote from: lwillisjr on April 19, 2011, 11:01:06 PM
Thanks,
Another reason why I like this forum. Constantly learning something new.

All good, the more we know the better equiped we are to fight/treat this thing.

I have been on it for almost a month now, literally ZERO side effects until this started about a week ago. It is 3 times a day, starting to really piss me off! I looked it up but zero people in the studies using the extended release version had this side effect. Can anyone provide any input? Thanks so much.

On a side note, the medicine seems to be working well when combined with cialis. Erections are dynamite and zero intestinal issues besides this loose stool crap.

powerlift66,

I was on pentox for 8 months and I had more bowel movements throughout the time I used the drug. Not quite diarrhea, but I was going a lot more than usual. It has a chemical structure similar to the stimulant caffeine so I'm not surprised at such side effects. It also caused some extra gas but that was no big deal.

I noticed that if I stayed away from acidic foods such as tomato sauce or balsamic vinegar that the GI symptoms were much better. Also, if you are a power lifter (as your name implies) and using some sort of whey protein, that can cause extra gas and possibly diarrhea.

-Skjald

you have something else that is causing the diarrhea.....it is NOT Pentox....stop Pentox for few days and see if the symptoms go away....good luck

I have bladder-prostate problems. I'm young.
I urinate very often and i have a lot of burning in urethra.
I'm doing a lot of exams to understand exactly what i have.
I know only that when i assume pentox, symptoms worsen a lot and i urinate even 30-40 times in a day.
Do you know something about this?
Thanks

This sounds like it *could* be some sort of urinary tract infection.  Pentoxifylline will marginally suppress the immune system which would make a UTI worse.  I would get it very well screened if I were you.  - George

Pentox caused diarrea for me, my crap was either rock hard unless I gulped down water, and sometimes I would have to take a crap multiple times a day, not much would come out or it would be like water.  This was one of my least favorite side effects, however with my penis seeing solid improvement it was tolerable.

Comebackid

Stats show that side effects with Pentox are unlikely.  I put most of these things down to coincidence.  After 6 months on an Pentox I can honestly say no problems.

Late reply on my end!

Looks like mixed reviews, some say side effects are near impossible, others definitely experienced them. I find it interesting that when I recently started back on it (firm flaccid returned) I farted a lot more, and my appetite decreased.

I have been using traction devices and pumps on and off for years, I think I always did too much traction though aka too much force.

I've never notied any significant side effects. The odd bad stomach early on, but taking it with food seemed to all but eliminate that.

For diarrea:
you can decrease the dosage from 1,2g to 800mg daily.
And you must eliminate bread and leaven from your diet.

When I took the pentox with food it seemed to eliminate the stomach aches to.  I had a lot of farting though, and my crap was either diarrea or rock hard, I had to drink a lot of water and wait to take a crap for it to be comfortable, it was def worth the results though, my penis came back full and soft flaccid, it was normal and healthy , kind of like if I was pumping it with the VED all the time, my erections were solid, i had almost no venous leakage, and my bend got less. 

Comebackid

I was searching to find out if Pentox "Trental" is a immune suppressant. I cannot find the ansewer and was wondering if anyone knew if it is or isn't. I ve been taking Trental again for about one month now and noticed in that time I ve got Jock itch, Athletes foot & now a sore throat.

Usually if I get jock itch and or athletes foot I can just treat it with OTC medicine and it will go away. Now I ve tryed all the OTC stuff and can't seem to shake it. Treatal is the only real medicine I am taking besides omeprazole witch I ve been taking for years for reflux. The only other things are just supplements L Arginine, CoQ10, fish oil & vitamin D. I also take a generic Clariton for allergies.

Any input would be great.

Quote from: Woodman on November 15, 2011, 01:27:43 AM
I was searching to find out if Pentox "Trental" is a immune suppressant. I cannot find the ansewer and was wondering if anyone knew if it is or isn't. I ve been taking Trental again for about one month now and noticed in that time I ve got Jock itch, Athletes foot & now a sore throat.

Usually if I get jock itch and or athletes foot I can just treat it with OTC medicine and it will go away. Now I ve tryed all the OTC stuff and can't seem to shake it. Treatal is the only real medicine I am taking besides omeprazole witch I ve been taking for years for reflux. The only other things are just supplements L Arginine, CoQ10, fish oil & vitamin D. I also take a generic Clariton for allergies.

Any input would be great.

The answer is YES.  Pentox IS a mild immune suppressant.  It can cause an abnormally low white cell count and it can exacerbate any type of infectious disease.  It is advised that when one is fighting an infection of any kind, one should briefly stop Pentox to allow the infection to clear up and then restart Pentox.  - George

I'm glad to know this.  I've never had jock itch in my life, but had an awful case last month.  My GP prescribed some ointment and I reacted to that badly and eventually had to use a steroid cream.  It seemed like the only solution was to use both the ointment and the steroid in order to get rid of it without reacting to the ointment.  I never thought Pentox would have anything to do with it.  Should I try to get a flu shot this season for this reason?

Thank you George for the info. I am gonna stop taking the Trental for a bit and see if I can get my issues to resolve.

Woodman,

I think it def. is.  I had some kind of skin infection with red bumps on my neck, back, butt etc.  When I started taking pentox they worsened and became more in number.  By the time I ended my pentox they faded away significantly.  I'm now back on pentox, I'm sick and usually in 2-3 days I'm over it.  I've had a cough now for two weeks, the rest of my congestion basic cold went away except this cough.  I believe it is proven pentox will suppress your immune system.  For us though, that is good, thats why it works really.  However with a weaker immune system, you could get sick easier or pick up warts from touching things in public, or some kind of a skin virus. 

At this point my main concern is getting my penis back to normal health so I'm willing to eat the lower immune system.

Comebackid

I'm also wondering about the flu shot? Should I go ahead and get one like I normally do?

Quote from: George999 on November 15, 2011, 10:55:37 AM
... Pentox IS a mild immune suppressant.  It can cause an abnormally low white cell count and it can exacerbate any type of infectious disease.  It is advised that when one is fighting an infection of any kind, one should briefly stop Pentox to allow the infection to clear up and then restart Pentox.

Thanks for this info.  I'm 25 days into by far the longest cold of my life and will quit the Pentox for a while.  
Do you happen to know if on/off/on has untoward effects in Pentox Peyronie's therapy?

I've read that stopping pentox means you have to take a few weeks to get back it's effects.

Speak with you doctor about this.

It is now Dec. 2 nd I stopped taking Pentox on Nov. 17th after Georges post. I finally got rid of the jock itch for the moment but the athletics foot I cannot get rid of it. It was getting better for a bit but the past two days its gotten worse and has spread. My sinuses have gotten alittle better but still having problems blowing nose often flem etc.

I ve never had ailments of this nature hang on and or so hard to shake. I am wondering how long it will take for the Trental to play out of my system and for it to kick back into normal. Interesting thing is I was just on it for about a month before I stopped taking it.

On a side note two of my plaques seem smaller flaccid and my pain has improved. Does anyone know what supplements that could help with the lower immune issues?

Astragalus is the quintessential herb for stimulating the immune system.  The risk is that it can activate or aggravate auto-immune type reactions in the process.  That is what happened to me.  I had a problem with a chronically low white cell count.  I took astragalus for two weeks and my white cell count went way up higher than it had been for the past two or three years.  BUT, along with that, my Peyronie's reactivated after being dormant for quite a while.  AND my peripheral neuropathy as well.  The two problems run counter to each other which generally means you are damned if you do and damned if you don't and you have to pick your poison carefully.  Comeback, I know, has been through this whole game and perhaps he will have some input on this one.  Hopefully you are using a good fungal med on the feet.  - George

Pentox has been in medical use since at least the 1980's.  It's principal use, for intermittent claudication, is generally on elderly patients.  With the elderly, immune suppression causing increase of colds, flu's, etc. would constitute a serious side effect of Pentox.  Yet immune suppression is never listed among Pentox's side effects.  Smith et al. (2011) states: "In general, the side effects of PTX are mild and consist of nausea, dizziness and headache" and the official Pentox FDA trials actually found dizziness and headache more prevalent in the placebo arm.  I'm puzzled why immune suppression isn't included if in fact it occurs.

George999's line seems to be that since Pentox treatment of Peyronie's is based on suppression of a certain autoimmune response, the more general immune suppression isn't a side effect at all but an expected part of the drug's operation. My medical understanding to too slight to agree or disagree with that reasoning, but since Pentox's efficacy with, e.g., intermittent claudication has nothing to do with suppression of an autoimmune response, general immune suppression should be regarded as a side effect if in fact it occurs.

Quote from: George999 in another strand on December 03, 2011, 01:15:42 AM
You have to remember that Dr Lue's primary theory regarding Peyronie's is that it is driven, at least in part, by the cytokine TGF-beta1.  And that theory is supported by a significant amount of research.  Pentoxifylline blocks TGF-beta1.

Smith was Lue's student.  Lue is behind the 2011 paper (and listed as the 8th and last author). Interestingly the 2011 paper reverts to the older understanding of Pentox for explaining its efficacy at reducing Peyronie's calcification.

"Although some data suggest that PTX blocks the tumor growth
factor-beta pathways, the mechanism by which PTX might induce
regression of calcified plaques is unclear. PTX has been shown to
improve microcirculation through reducing blood viscosity."     

Quote from: ppain on December 03, 2011, 11:59:09 PM

Smith was Lue's student.  Lue is behind the 2011 paper (and listed as the 8th and last author). Interestingly the 2011 paper reverts to the older understanding of Pentox for explaining its efficacy at reducing Peyronie's calcification.

I have a lot of doctors among my friends.. so just a remark.
Usually when younger doctors publish a paper in a journal, they do it to collect points..  they do it because the number of publications count in their curiculum when they apply for a job. (the more publication points you have, the better job you can get - allthough this is only one aspect)
Usually the younger doctors ask one of their teachers, or senior colleagues to sign in as co author. This gives their paper more weight (and it might be published in a more important journal). The senior doctor, by signing in gets free publishing points.
This is the way it works here in europe, but I think also in the states.

Of course the senior doctor only signs in if he thinks that the theorie behind this publications is right.


But what I am trying to say is, that we cannot be sure that Dr. Lue is behind this publication, he might only have signed in as coauthor, because he was asked to by his students and principly agrees with the publication.

NOTE: i said: "might" have signed in.. not has signed in.

Luc

In terms of Pentox's ability to "thin the blood", it does so in a very unique way which might explain some of its capabilities.  Pentox uniquely makes blood cells flexible so they squeeze through damaged capillaries that would otherwise be impassible.  No other blood thinner that I know of operates in this manner.  It is unique to Pentoxifylline.  - George

Quote from: Luciano on December 04, 2011, 07:46:34 AM

Quote from: ppain on December 03, 2011, 11:59:09 PM

But what I am trying to say is, that we cannot be sure that Dr. Lue is behind this publication, he might only have signed in as coauthor, because he was asked to by his students and principly agrees with the publication.

NOTE: i said: "might" have signed in.. not has signed in.

Luc

While this is possible, also note that Dr. Shindle, who is one of Dr. Lue's colleagues, signed on as well. Rather than racking up points, I believe they are one of the few urology groups trying to publish research on the disease. I'm only speculating here, but I imagine that it's tough to get a large Peyronie's drug study together because pentox is so dirt cheap, i.e. the large drug companies have little financial incentive to support or encourage such research. Therefore I believe that Dr. Lue and the others are carrying out such research to further understanding of the disease and encourage more research that could piggyback on what little research already exists. Just my 2 cents.

Skjaldborg

Dont stop pentox altogether, just go down to one pill per day or one every other day.

I'm on pentox.  I'm not sure if it's related but I have a very hard time eating these days.  Basically I have absolutely no appetite, never really feel hungry and it's a struggle to force myself to eat something.

I'm not sure if this is the medication, the lack of sleep I've been having or some mental health issues (I've been feeling very bummed out lately - went to the hospital to set up an appointment with a social worker).  I have definitely lost weight - since things took a turn for the worse I have probably lost 15 pounds (from 140 down to 125 since September).  I don't have nausea or sickness per say from the pills, but I generally just feel kind of 'meh' about food. 

An old doctor once told me. If you think the medication is causing a problem stop it for 5 days and see what happens.

I would not do this for any heart of other serious health issues without consulting the doctor that prescribed it for you.

My 2 cents.

Jackp
http://jackp-penileimplant.blogspot.com/

Did anyone have problems getting off pentox?  Any side effects - did you have to go to 1 pill a day and then down further.

I have to say I am in a really bad place.  I find myself spontaneously breaking down into tears.  I'm normally pretty strong but I'm having a hard time dealing with this.  It's hard to describe just how low my energy levels are.  I am completely drained of any energy - even going for a walk is a tough thing to do.  I haven't been to work in over 3 months, I am basically a zombie the whole day.

I'm trying to figure out if this is depression, the pentox or the fact that I'm having trouble sleeping.  Any advice is appreciated.  BTW sorry for the sob story, I just need to get this out.

You sound severely depressed. Get to a mental health professional for an evaluation, just as soon as possible.

There is help.

Jackp

Sounds like depression. I don't know how old you are but a sure fire way to boost self esteem,gain more energy and get your weight back up is to hit the gym. Start focusing your anger (depression) on the gym and make it a positive! If you need any encouragement or any questions feel free to pm me!

I'm definitely depressed - I have asked for a councilor at the hospital and will be following up with them tomorrow.

I don't think it's JUST depression - for example it's 10:47pm now and I feel absolutely fine.  It's night and day from how I felt this afternoon - in the afternoon even cleaning a bowl from lunch would be an effort.  I don't know if that's how depression works.

Question on getting off pentox: do I need to wean myself from it?  What have other people's doctors told them?  My doctor is off for the holidays.  I cannot continue like this - I had half a banana and a bagel all day and I feel awful - absolutely no desire to eat anything and kind of sick.  No energy obviously.

i'm 99% sure you can just stop it. I had stop for a while bc it was giving me headaches and I quit without weaning. I did go back to just 2 pills a day and I feel great with that dosage.

I was on it for a few months and then completely stopped taking it and didn't experience any issues.

I asked my Uro / surgeon if I should stop Pentox . L'Arginine and VED prior to my surgery Feb.2.
He replied stay on the VED , stop Pentox & L'Arginine. Nothing about a gradual stoppage.
Mike

Yup, I got in touch with a urologist from that clinic - he said stopping cold turkey is OK.  I may try this for the next few days.  I also got a TON of bloodwork done to rule out anything crazy like vitamin deficiencies or mono.  Tomorrow have the consult with the psychologist to talk about my depression.  I'm sure that will be interesting, never had to talk with anyone like that before.

I should mention, the doctor I spoke with prescribed trazodone to help me sleep but I notice one rare side effect is priapism, so I think I'll skip that. 

I was having a hard time a while back with dealing with my Peyronies, other health problems going on at the sametime, also along with family and relationship problems etc. I found when I was on Pentox it intensified my depression and feelings where I got very very low where it took everything I had to get out of bed to go to work in the morning. Also I would be on a emotional roller coaster. From kinda ok to just wanting to breakdown. I got real quiet too after a while and didnt speak much too anyone. I figured out the Pentox was doing it to me as a side effect. It usually slowly took effect after a few weeks usage and slowly built till it got bad in a month to two month period.

I had to discontinue using Pentox and over a period of about 3 weeks it would slowly get better the longest time was about a month to resolve the side effect. If you do a search under my screen name woodman I wrote about it here on the forum in detail.

In short I found that if your in a rough low spot in life where you are already battling the mental aspects of Peyronies, plus a little depression along with everything else it can effect you this way. I even asked my uros PA and a month later he told me he had another patient that had the same experiance. I hope this might help a bit.

Haven't taken the pills for 2 days - feel QUITE different.  Appetite seems to have returned and I just generally feel better.

I don't know how much this is just in my head or not but it's certainly a change from how I've been feeling for the last month or so.

Voodoo,.good chance it is setteling in your head. Pentox,  ubiquinol, or cialis are not goining to cause adverse trauma to your head.The pump or stretcher can promote you to the next evolution .

Fubar

Update:

Just wanted to let you guys know I am sooooo much different without taking the pentox.  It's hard to explain but my energy levels are back and my appetite is back.  I feel much more like my normal self.  The biggest change is my appetite - hard to explain but even just a week ago I basically had no desire to eat food.  All food was about as appetizing as a bowl of mud.  I could force myself to eat it but it would be about as easy as forcing yourself to eat dirt - best way I can describe it.

Pretty disappointing to be honest - I was really hoping the pentox would help in some ways. 

Quote from: 0x5555 on December 27, 2011, 05:10:35 PM

Pretty disappointing to be honest - I was really hoping the pentox would help in some ways. 

It is in a family of drugs that are stimulants.  Some people find this harder to tolerate than others. What happened to you is similar to what happened to me.  My sleep was screwed up, I was moody (from not sleeping), my appetite was fine (but most appetite suppressants are stimulants - so not surprised by this).  I also don't really like  how i feel from coffee / caffeine... they are distantly related, but apparently close enough to some people's brains.... other people dont notice a thing.   It also upset my stomach...like caffeine...so, I stopped too.

Don't be too disappointed, it's not a magic bullet.

Yeah, I'm OK - life goes on.

Hello all, new to this forum- 29 y/o with Peyronies Disease as of 2.5 years ago. After some missed diagnoses I was finally given the proper info on my condition and was assigned Pentox. I was on for 9 months then took myself off, and a few months ago was put back on.

After meeting with my urologist four months after being put back on, he doubled the dose (now six 400 MG tablets a day, two at a time) and I've really noticed a huge change in the side effects, esp. if I forget to take with a meal or am out and about without the meds. Even still I have a lot of nausea, which I am prone to anyways as I also have some GI issues (my body has given me lots of challenges throughout the years!)

Does anyone else suffer through the side effects to a fairly uncomfortable degree? I want to try this double dose still as long as I can, as I was starting to make progress (ie, the scarring and calcification stopped growing) and am willing to put up with the side effects for the time being. One of my solutions to this has been medical marijuana- I live in a state where it is legal and I have proper documentation- though I am concerned about the restriction of blood vessels, which I assume may also be reversed by the amount of caffeine I intake every day. I asked my urologist who is one of the top experts on the subject and he said there was no official data on the subject at all.

Thanks everyone...

I'm pretty sure most of our forum members are only taking 2 or 3 Pentox per day.  My doctor prescribed 2 a day for me and I have never had any problems.

6 sounds like a lot to me, but I'm sure you will get more feedback from some of the more knowledgeable members. 

GS

I tried 6 a day after the original post of Dr Lue prescribing this to some patients. I didn't have any real side effect except for a headache every now and then. I don't usually get headaches they weren't often but seemed to be slightly more than what I'm use to getting which is pretty much none. But I think I tolerate pentox well and haven't had the problems some have had with even min doses

I had some minor GI side effects while on 1200mg pentox per day. Taking it with food and avoiding very acidic foods (Orange juice, red sauce, etc.) seemed to help. As far as self medicating with marijuana, I can imagine that there is no data on how it would affect Peyronie's disease. My best guess is that in moderate doses it would not. However, inhaling any combusted material, be it tobacco or wood smoke, is tough on the lungs.

Skjaldborg

I wish I had read this topic two weeks ago when I get cold/flue and reduce Pentox for one per day.
I continue with Pentox 2 daily 400mg and the cold/flue was over just now after two weeks and still cough very strong specially if I lay down. 
Usually it takes me less than one week to be over.
James

Interesting thread. I've been on Pentox for about 90 days and have had this lingering sinus issue since Christmas time. Usually it will clear up in about a week. This time after a round of antibiotics, it's still acting up. I will have to see if going down to one pill a day will help clear it up. On another note, similar to Woodman, I had a bout of athlete's foot - very rare for me - that didn't clear up with OTC medicine. Had to get a prescription strength medication. It might be all coincidental, but reading similar experiences makes me wonder if there is more to this.

I have to say last year I exprienced the samething lingering cough got sick more than normal while on pentox. This year however I have not, even though people all around me are sick. The only thing different between last year and now is that I cleaned up my diet a lot. I'm not sure what you guys typically eat but I cut way down on processed foods and try to make the bulk of my meals raw fruits and veggies and enough meat home cooked for the protein I need. I haven't been sick once even with all my coworkers coughing, sneezing and calling in sick. Even the client sites I work at I haven't gotten sick from the coughing, sneezing, and sickly employees. Maybe its just by chance but I do feel better over all. The meats I eat I try to only get free range, that were fed a natural diet but I am not finding much in the way of  beef or chicken so I tend to lean towards sea food that was cought not farm raised. Just something to think about if you find yourself getting sick more often on pentox.

Yup.  Healthy diet and sufficient vitamin D can help tremendously in warding off infections.  They can also help tremendously in overcoming Peyronie's.  I am convinced that the reason that some do well on things like Pentox and others don't has to do with such things as diet and exercise issues.  - George

Hey guys, this is my second true time on pentox, I did get sick more on pentox.  I have daily sinus leakage down the back of my throat which causes gagging, especially when I"m out in colder air, when the tempature is below 40 degrees.  I had this problem the last time I was on pentox as well, I believe the pentox causes sinus irritation.  Last time when I was on three pills per day, I had daily headaches and even more sinus leakage.  For some reason somehow the pentox seems to irritate the sinus cavity, it could be quite simple, or quite complex, I don't know, but its still worth the positive gains I've seen from the drug at this point. 

As for it being an immune suppressant does that mean it weakens the whole immune system, or stops the overactive immune system from attacking healthy cells?  If we are all getting sick more often and longer, it looks like it could mean pentox weakens the entire immune system.

Comebackid

Interesting, I've had chronic shoulder pain for about six weeks now.  I'm going to have a checkup soon that includes a physical and blood drawn, will see.  I've been on pentox for 9 months probably 3 times a day 400mg.

Come back Kid,

Try nasal irrigation with a Netti pot.  I swear by it when ever I get some kind of nasal irritation or the sensation of a cold coming on.  The trick is to get the temperature of the water close to body temperature and use a small amount of USP salt. 
I don't use tap water becasue it has all kinds of junk I don't want in my body.  I use bottled spring water which I heat on the stove.
Simple and effective.

GoodLuck

Smokin dope made my tallywacker hurt the most and shrink, if your lookin to use illegal substances to cope(not a good long run choice) try hydrocodone syrup or promethezine codeine will be pain free a juicy for a couple days

Quote from: UnholyErexshuns on February 18, 2012, 09:48:27 PM
Smokin dope made my tallywacker hurt the most and shrink, if your lookin to use illegal substances to cope(not a good long run choice) try hydrocodone syrup or promethezine codeine will be pain free a juicy for a couple days

Or not.

Thanks for the responses. It's been a bit better recently, but I've been more mindful of taking with food or milk/yogurt and perhaps my body is adjusting. It does seem like quite a lot, but I rather be safe and deal with the minor inconveniences now if it's going to be more effective. Using marijuana was not a way of coping, rather to relieve the nausea etc. from the Pentox. I've also noticed some blurry vision, which I've read can be a side effect- has anyone else experienced that?

Hi Neptune,

That is a lot of Pentox.  Keep us posted please.

That reminds me of a thread here in the forum of someone else who was a patient of Tom Lue.
Lue also doubled his dose of pentox.
I do not know how it turned out. But if you find the thread, it would be good contacting him.
Luc

Everyone would like to see his Peyronie's gone as soon as possible. I also appreciate Dr. Lue big knowledge in the subject.
From the other side, I read on the Internet that the Pentox maximum daily administered quantity should not exceed 20mg per 1Kg of body weight.
So if someone weight is 80Kg/176.4lbs the maximum daily intake should be 1600mg, it makes 4*400mg per day.
Maybe I am too conservative and worry?! I don't know.
James

"OVERDOSAGE
Overdosage with Trental (pentoxifylline) has been reported in children and adults. Symptoms
appear to be dose related and usually occurred 4-5 hours after ingestion and lasted about 12
hours. Initial manifestations of acute overdose with pentoxifylline may be nausea, dizziness,
tachycardia, fever, gastrointestinal bleeding – coffee-ground vomiting and areflexia.
  The highest amount ingested was 80mg/kg with which flushing, hypotension, convulsions, somnolence, loss
of consciousness, fever, and agitation have been observed. All patients recovered.

No specific antidote is known. In addition to symptomatic treatment and gastric lavage, special
attention must be given to supporting respiration, maintaining systemic blood pressure, and
controlling convulsions with intravenous diazepam. Activated charcoal has been used to absorb
pentoxifylline in patients who have overdosed. "

Source: http://products.sanofi.ca/en/trental.pdf

Laurent

I don't know if this has been discussed before so please forgive this newbie if it has.

The only side effect that I have with Pentox is that it acts as a powerful diuretic. I see why some bodybuilders take Pentox before a contest to get that cut-look.

The first dose I took was right before bed and within 10 hours, I urinated one gallon!! Yes, I keep a measuring jug by the side of my bed for a previous bladder issue I had and I used it to test what was happening to me with the Pentox.

I urinated so much that I became dangerously dehydrated. I had sharp pains in my side that had not happened since I was 7 years old when I was hospitalized for dehydration. This time I just kept drinking till the pain stopped, and thank God it did.

But that leaves this problem. I can't be running to the bathroom every 15 minutes when on Pentox.

I'm just wondering if anyone else has had this side effect and if so, does it go away, or is this something that I'm stuck with until hopefully this 90 degree bend in my penis goes away?

Please share your thoughts. Thank you.

I really have not had that problem or any side effect from pentox.I am diabetic and when my sugar levels are out of controll i have an unquenchable thirst and run to the bathroom constantly.So maybe it could be something else?

Hope you can get to the bottom of it.I personally know how agrivating it is to get out of bed constantly to urinate.

Fubar

I haven't noticed any problems with it being a diuretic.  I drink too much coffee so I probably urinate more frequently than many, but I noticed no change with Pentox.

I haven't had any problems with it being a duiretic either. Only problem I had was at 3 pills a day it gave me a headache so I take 2 a day now.

Quote from: MattF on March 04, 2012, 10:10:32 PM
I don't know if this has been discussed before so please forgive this newbie if it has.

The only side effect that I have with Pentox is that it acts as a powerful diuretic. I see why some bodybuilders take Pentox before a contest to get that cut-look.

The first dose I took was right before bed and within 10 hours, I urinated one gallon!! Yes, I keep a measuring jug by the side of my bed for a previous bladder issue I had and I used it to test what was happening to me with the Pentox.

I urinated so much that I became dangerously dehydrated. I had sharp pains in my side that had not happened since I was 7 years old when I was hospitalized for dehydration. This time I just kept drinking till the pain stopped, and thank God it did.

But that leaves this problem. I can't be running to the bathroom every 15 minutes when on Pentox.

I'm just wondering if anyone else has had this side effect and if so, does it go away, or is this something that I'm stuck with until hopefully this 90 degree bend in my penis goes away?

Please share your thoughts. Thank you.

I have had the same problem.

You have to start with small dose (200mg daily) and increase gradually.

Quote from: dioporcolorisolvo on March 05, 2012, 11:26:26 AM

Quote from: MattF on March 04, 2012, 10:10:32 PM
I don't know if this has been discussed before so please forgive this newbie if it has.

The only side effect that I have with Pentox is that it acts as a powerful diuretic. I see why some bodybuilders take Pentox before a contest to get that cut-look.

The first dose I took was right before bed and within 10 hours, I urinated one gallon!! Yes, I keep a measuring jug by the side of my bed for a previous bladder issue I had and I used it to test what was happening to me with the Pentox.

I urinated so much that I became dangerously dehydrated. I had sharp pains in my side that had not happened since I was 7 years old when I was hospitalized for dehydration. This time I just kept drinking till the pain stopped, and thank God it did.

But that leaves this problem. I can't be running to the bathroom every 15 minutes when on Pentox.

I'm just wondering if anyone else has had this side effect and if so, does it go away, or is this something that I'm stuck with until hopefully this 90 degree bend in my penis goes away?

Please share your thoughts. Thank you.

I have had the same problem.

You have to start with small dose (200mg daily) and increase gradually.

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts.

dioporcolorisolvo, did you cut the 400mg tablet in half and then further split the tablet into 1/3's and take a third every 8 hours? Or, did you split it into half and just take one of the halves for the whole day?

Please let me know what you did to get around this problem and how soon the issue resolved itself. Thank you.  :)

Quote from: MattF on March 05, 2012, 12:55:34 PM

Quote from: dioporcolorisolvo on March 05, 2012, 11:26:26 AM

Quote from: MattF on March 04, 2012, 10:10:32 PM
I don't know if this has been discussed before so please forgive this newbie if it has.

The only side effect that I have with Pentox is that it acts as a powerful diuretic. I see why some bodybuilders take Pentox before a contest to get that cut-look.

The first dose I took was right before bed and within 10 hours, I urinated one gallon!! Yes, I keep a measuring jug by the side of my bed for a previous bladder issue I had and I used it to test what was happening to me with the Pentox.

I urinated so much that I became dangerously dehydrated. I had sharp pains in my side that had not happened since I was 7 years old when I was hospitalized for dehydration. This time I just kept drinking till the pain stopped, and thank God it did.

But that leaves this problem. I can't be running to the bathroom every 15 minutes when on Pentox.

I'm just wondering if anyone else has had this side effect and if so, does it go away, or is this something that I'm stuck with until hopefully this 90 degree bend in my penis goes away?

Please share your thoughts. Thank you.

I have had the same problem.

You have to start with small dose (200mg daily) and increase gradually.

Or, did you split it into half and just take one of the halves for the whole day?

This.
Increase dose gradually, you have to regulate depending on your physical answer.

dioporcolorisolvo
As I am encountering also some Pentox side effects, I will also appreciate your answer to MattF

Quotedioporcolorisolvo, did you cut the 400mg tablet in half and then further split the tablet into 1/3's and take a third every 8 hours? Or, did you split it into half and just take one of the halves for the whole day?

Thanks
James

Quote from: dioporcolorisolvo on March 05, 2012, 01:03:15 PM

Quote from: MattF on March 05, 2012, 12:55:34 PM

Quote from: dioporcolorisolvo on March 05, 2012, 11:26:26 AM

Quote from: MattF on March 04, 2012, 10:10:32 PM
I don't know if this has been discussed before so please forgive this newbie if it has.

The only side effect that I have with Pentox is that it acts as a powerful diuretic. I see why some bodybuilders take Pentox before a contest to get that cut-look.

The first dose I took was right before bed and within 10 hours, I urinated one gallon!! Yes, I keep a measuring jug by the side of my bed for a previous bladder issue I had and I used it to test what was happening to me with the Pentox.

I urinated so much that I became dangerously dehydrated. I had sharp pains in my side that had not happened since I was 7 years old when I was hospitalized for dehydration. This time I just kept drinking till the pain stopped, and thank God it did.

But that leaves this problem. I can't be running to the bathroom every 15 minutes when on Pentox.

I'm just wondering if anyone else has had this side effect and if so, does it go away, or is this something that I'm stuck with until hopefully this 90 degree bend in my penis goes away?

Please share your thoughts. Thank you.

I have had the same problem.

You have to start with small dose (200mg daily) and increase gradually.

Or, did you split it into half and just take one of the halves for the whole day?

This.
Increase dose gradually, you have to regulate depending on your physical answer.

dioporcolorisolvo, thanks again. I know our bodies are different but can you give me an idea how you increased the dose, how fast, and how much? It looks like your answer can also help james1947. Any additional thoughts would be great. Thank you.

Quote from: MattF on March 05, 2012, 03:29:40 PM

Quote from: dioporcolorisolvo on March 05, 2012, 01:03:15 PM

Quote from: MattF on March 05, 2012, 12:55:34 PM

Quote from: dioporcolorisolvo on March 05, 2012, 11:26:26 AM

Quote from: MattF on March 04, 2012, 10:10:32 PM
I don't know if this has been discussed before so please forgive this newbie if it has.

The only side effect that I have with Pentox is that it acts as a powerful diuretic. I see why some bodybuilders take Pentox before a contest to get that cut-look.

The first dose I took was right before bed and within 10 hours, I urinated one gallon!! Yes, I keep a measuring jug by the side of my bed for a previous bladder issue I had and I used it to test what was happening to me with the Pentox.

I urinated so much that I became dangerously dehydrated. I had sharp pains in my side that had not happened since I was 7 years old when I was hospitalized for dehydration. This time I just kept drinking till the pain stopped, and thank God it did.

But that leaves this problem. I can't be running to the bathroom every 15 minutes when on Pentox.

I'm just wondering if anyone else has had this side effect and if so, does it go away, or is this something that I'm stuck with until hopefully this 90 degree bend in my penis goes away?

Please share your thoughts. Thank you.

I have had the same problem.

You have to start with small dose (200mg daily) and increase gradually.

Or, did you split it into half and just take one of the halves for the whole day?

This.
Increase dose gradually, you have to regulate depending on your physical answer.

dioporcolorisolvo, thanks again. I know our bodies are different but can you give me an idea how you increased the dose, how fast, and how much? It looks like your answer can also help james1947. Any additional thoughts would be great. Thank you.

Probably you will have to do various attempts, like me.
It's useless to say to you how to increase dose...it depends from your physical answer.
You can try to take 200mg for 7 days, 200mg x 2 for 7 day, 200mg x 3 for 7 days, 200mg x 4 for some months and then increase.
If the problem goes on stop it and retry from beginning scale after some week.

Quote from: dioporcolorisolvo on March 05, 2012, 04:10:47 PM

Quote from: MattF on March 05, 2012, 03:29:40 PM

Quote from: dioporcolorisolvo on March 05, 2012, 01:03:15 PM

Quote from: MattF on March 05, 2012, 12:55:34 PM

Quote from: dioporcolorisolvo on March 05, 2012, 11:26:26 AM

Quote from: MattF on March 04, 2012, 10:10:32 PM
I don't know if this has been discussed before so please forgive this newbie if it has.

The only side effect that I have with Pentox is that it acts as a powerful diuretic. I see why some bodybuilders take Pentox before a contest to get that cut-look.

The first dose I took was right before bed and within 10 hours, I urinated one gallon!! Yes, I keep a measuring jug by the side of my bed for a previous bladder issue I had and I used it to test what was happening to me with the Pentox.

I urinated so much that I became dangerously dehydrated. I had sharp pains in my side that had not happened since I was 7 years old when I was hospitalized for dehydration. This time I just kept drinking till the pain stopped, and thank God it did.

But that leaves this problem. I can't be running to the bathroom every 15 minutes when on Pentox.

I'm just wondering if anyone else has had this side effect and if so, does it go away, or is this something that I'm stuck with until hopefully this 90 degree bend in my penis goes away?

Please share your thoughts. Thank you.

I have had the same problem.

You have to start with small dose (200mg daily) and increase gradually.

Or, did you split it into half and just take one of the halves for the whole day?

This.
Increase dose gradually, you have to regulate depending on your physical answer.

dioporcolorisolvo, thanks again. I know our bodies are different but can you give me an idea how you increased the dose, how fast, and how much? It looks like your answer can also help james1947. Any additional thoughts would be great. Thank you.

Probably you will have to do various attempts, like me.
It's useless to say to you how to increase dose...it depends from your physical answer.
You can try to take 200mg for 7 days, 200mg x 2 for 7 day, 200mg x 3 for 7 days, 200mg x 4 for some months and then increase.
If the problem goes on stop it and retry from beginning scale after some week.

That sounds great. I'll give it a try. Thanks very much. :)

dioporcolorisolvo
Thanks
James

Guys, please try to refrain from nesting all of those quotes because it just clogs up the thread and makes it less readable.  It also takes just that much more space on the server which will eventually end up costing somebody money.  The best rule of thumb is to avoid quotes when possible.  When necessary, just quote that part which is immediately relevant to your comment.

Frequent urination is often associated with anxiety, and I believe anxiety has been mentioned multiple times on this forum as being a potential side effect of Pentoxifylline.  It often happens as a result of an adrenal imbalance when Cortisol somehow overpowers DHEA.  So if DHEA production becomes suppressed or if excessive DHEA is removed from the bloodstream, this can happen.  Just one of the triggers that can cause this to happen is an increase in Insulin which can be a result of an increase in blood sugar or some other cause.  All of these hormonal systems in the body are intricately connected and can be easily disrupted.  - George

Note to all:

In addition to the suggestion by George999 below , you can simply just list the post number in the thread so that anyone can refer back to the entire text.

As he said, the extraneous material simply reduces the size of our memory on the forum and eventually it will cost extra to the administrator.

Old Man

Quote from: George999 on March 06, 2012, 10:49:31 AM

Frequent urination is often associated with anxiety

If you take pentox and you urinate every 30 minute the double of normal amount......anxiety has nothing to do with this problem.
It's just a collateral effect of the drug.

Quote from: George999 on March 06, 2012, 10:49:31 AM
Frequent urination is often associated with anxiety, and I believe anxiety has been mentioned multiple times on this forum as being a potential side effect of Pentoxifylline.  It often happens as a result of an adrenal imbalance when Cortisol somehow overpowers DHEA.  So if DHEA production becomes suppressed or if excessive DHEA is removed from the bloodstream, this can happen.  Just one of the triggers that can cause this to happen is an increase in Insulin which can be a result of an increase in blood sugar or some other cause.  All of these hormonal systems in the body are intricately connected and can be easily disrupted.  - George

I don't know about the anxiety aspect because I didn't feel anxious when taking my first dose of 400mg. Also, my sugar levels are definitely low on purpose. And since I was sleeping, I don't know if the cortisol levels would have been higher than normal. But, since bodybuilders use Pentox as a diuretic, it clearly had that effect on me. Certainly, Pentox increases blood-flow throughout various aspects of the body and in doing so, can cause the body to lose water.

I'm going to take dioporcolorisolvo's suggestion and reduce the dose. I'll start again on Saturday just in case I start going into a "urinary frenzy". I don't want to be working or sleeping should that happen.  :)

Lastly, I'm sure you guys are aware since you've been tackling this issue long before me, that Pentox is as close to a miracle drug as is possible. Very few side effects yet has enormous potential to help various maladies associated with circulation issues. Anything that pumps more blood into the smallest blood vessels is normally a good thing for the human body.

Also, sorry about the excessive quoting.

MattF
Not related to the race horse urinating.
Even that I am using Pentox just for 7 weeks I have to agree with you that Pentox is close to a miracle drug. It helps me on other issues also, not just Peyronie's.
James

Thanks for the info. I think my body has adjusted, and sometimes I take just one instead of two at a time, or will skip a dose here and there, in still trying to keep it in general in my system. If I don't take on a full stomach or with yogurt/kefir however, I still feel pretty awful. I don't have a ton of body weight so I'm sort of monitoring on my own.

Dr. Lue is actually my doctor and suggested we try this as he's had some recent success, but to take it back down to one 3xday if it feels like it's too much. I'm starting to think that it could suffice due to not having a lot of body weight, but I'm still on the side of experiencing minor discomfort now for the long run. If the symptoms return however, I am not going to continue the 6xday. My body and everything I read seems to think it's a bit much.

Hi - This is my first post on the forum and I will probably go back to introduce myself and my specific case later, but I wanted to ask some questions that I don't want to wait on. They pertain to anxiety side effects from taking Pentox. Sorry for the length and the amount of info, but I have found I glean many tidbits of info when people post long messages, so I think more info/experiences logged on the record are always a good thing.

I have what I would term as low-level transient anxiety, most often just a slight feeling of unease or worry, oftentimes fading to feeling pretty 'normal,' but I am also prone to breakouts of *severe* anxiety under times of abnormal stress. Due to circumstances in my life I'm not sure I will always be able to avoid this stress. I have found these times of severe anxiety to DIRECTLY influence my Peyronie's, to the extent that I believe it to be the driving cause of the continued development of it for me. Keeping anxiety under control is my number one priority in dealing with Peyronie's, and also my number one stumbling block. So that's where I'm coming from.

I have a very good relationship with an acupuncturist who has helped me with my Peyronie's, but at this point he's targeting the anxiety as we both agree it is a huge driving factor. I can't afford to go to him often anymore, but I try to when I can, and I get a round of herbs that never lasts as long as I wish it would, because they do help in a gentle, rounded way. I take Acetyl L-Carnitine and CoQ10 religiously (I am 28 y/o).

I have close to a year's supply of Pentox on hand and recently took 400mg 3x daily for about a month and what I experienced was close to amazing. I don't know if there were any concrete improvements in the structure of my penis, but the reduction in pain, the increased bloodflow and fuller flaccid state, and harder erections were very promising. I don't have significant curvature when erect (I do sometimes when not erect), but I do have scars, plagues, dents, hinging(?), distal tapering when not fully erect, etc, I don't even know what all... straight but damaged-looking, with loss of girth. The problem was after about a month into it I felt it was getting to be too much, I was getting irritable and had too much energy, and then WHAM, I ran into some life events that threw me into a terrible state of anxiety, the worst part lasting about a week or two, trailing off for a few weeks after that. I stopped Pentox pretty quickly, though I stupidly took it for days longer than I should have. I feel it really was changing the chemistry of my brain or something. It was during this time that all my symptoms came back and went on to get much worse. One day I checked my penis and it was scarily, impossibly thin-looking. I developed a few new scars (or whatever they are - actually I think these were already there in minor, latent form) and some I had got bigger, a dent on my right side also increased, and I think I lost some more girth. These are all apparent when erect. The worst of this healed a little in the weeks afterward, but I am still left significantly worse off than I was before. The irony is not lost on me -- what I believe to be the only answer ultimately had a hand in worsening my symptoms.

It was during this time I tried many supplements for anxiety in a struggle to get it under control. Stabilium worked (and still does, I'm taking it sporadically now) very well for me, as did a supp by Source Naturals called Theanine Serene, as did acupuncture a few weeks afterwards, as well as just letting everything run it's course and leave my body. I also took/take fish oil, aloe vera, bioactive milk peptides, valerian (this I've always had on hand, recently got the Valerian Nighttime kind but haven't used it much), maybe a few other things. I'm going to get a full food allergy test and a vitamin D test done in April.

I feel being able to get back on Pentox is the *only* way I will beat this, but I am extremely hesitant to at the moment. My questions revolve around the "timeline" of the interrelation between Pentox and anxiety: Has anyone that has anxiety problems and takes Pentox noticed if these side effects are a constant after a month into it, or do they come on and then settle down? Is anxiety something you struggle with constantly while taking Pentox? What have you done to get into a groove where you are able to take the medication and function? This is mostly directly to anyone out there that is prone to severe anxiety. Have you found a way to make Pentox work for you? I realize this has been talked about on the boards before and I'm reading everything I can find, but I'm really wondering about people's experiences with the long-term handling of anxiety on Pentox. I would like to get back on 400mg 2x a day, cut out all sugars (ate no added sugars for two years once, so I have experience with that), try to get more exercise...

At one acupuncture session, when I think the acupuncturist felt I was leaning too much on him like a therapist or something, he calmly but bluntly told me "your only option is to become a wise man." Which I took to mean ultimately each person is an individual and must figure out what works best for them, and that wisdom can only come from within. Ain't easy, though.

swolf,

Good questions.  I noticed that while I was on Pentox I experienced episodes of anxiety.  I took Pentox for 2 and 1/2 years and I believe it helped my condition.

When I stopped Pentox usage, I noticed that I did not have these episodes of anxiety.

Prior to taking Pentox, I cannot recall ever experiencing the anxiety-type feelings I had while on Pentox.  However, I was aware that this is a side-effect for some, and I rationalized that it was probably the medicine.  So, I could generally keep the anxiety in some perspective.

I wish I could provide you more detail other than these generalizations,  but based on my experience, I believe I experienced some anxiety caused by Pentox, but I'm not sure.

CF

I looked on drugs.com for Pentox side effects -

Pentoxifylline has been marketed in Europe and elsewhere since 1972. In addition to the above symptoms, the following have been reported spontaneously since marketing or occurred in other clinical trials with an incidence of less than 1%; the causal relationship was uncertain:
 
Nervous - anxiety, confusion, depression, seizures, aseptic meningitis.

I guess the question comes down to a benefit analysis. Does Pentox provide enough benefit to your Peyronies Disease so it outweighs the potential anxiety that can occur by taking it? Perhaps knowing that Pentox is a cause of anxiety, can that knowledge help you to control the anxiety? That is - I know that taking this is going to cause anxiety, but I can deal with it because I know that it is a benefit to my Peyronies Disease.

Ultimately, I guess my questions are kind of moot. They are questions I was thinking about in the past few weeks while reading the boards, but I'm thinking the only way forward is to wade in with a lower dose and see how things go. I'm just cautious because I know I have anxiety problems (I actually haven't always had it be this apparent, or maybe I just wasn't as consciously aware of it. The beginning of my anxiety problems I would say started around the end of 2010/beginning of 2011 and are directly tied to the progression of Peyronie's for me, which came on slowly sometime later in 2011 and which I finally realized was a problem towards the end of 2011) and I know Pentox contributed to them reemerging. So I want to take every step I can to mitigate that, because what I felt was really quite extreme and I don't want to experience that again if I can help it. It would be nice to bounce my next plan of action off others that have been in the same situation, but the answers are probably out there and I just need to sift through the discussions on this board more. I just don't want Pentox to be something I end up not being able to take.

I begin to take Pentox three months ago but my Peyronie's AND anxiety begin 3&1/2 years ago.
My anxiety was caused by Peyronie's and what I have suffered for it and not Pentox.

Pentox can cause anxiety, try from 400mg/day in the morning (if you can find 200mg pill try this dose, in any case DO NOT CUT THE 400mg PENTOX IN HALF) in addition with making yourself busy/active (I don't mean siting in the front of the TV or the computer).

Making myself busy and thinking positive takes me out of anxiety.

James

Quote from: james1947 on March 26, 2012, 02:33:47 PM
in addition with making yourself busy/active (I don't mean siting in the front of the TV or the computer).

I work a very physical job outdoors (landscaping type stuff) which I was on winter hiatus from when my attempt at Pentox happened, and I was actually looking forward to starting work again because the heavy exertion seemed like a good way to combat the side effects. But in the past week an arm injury (bursitis-like, but I don't think it is actually that) resurfaced and I am most likely leaving the job (not a whole lot of choice) after only working a few weeks. I'm a fit person but outside of that job I didn't do much exercise besides walking and some hiking. I plan to start tai chi and/or possibly another martial art when I can (depending on time, money, etc), and maybe some other more intensive form of exercise. Biking may be good, but then again being in a bike seat a lot might affect what is currently a rather tender area, haha.

I forgot to mention earlier but cold showers in the morning sometimes helped to take the edge off of anxiety. The worst of it would come at night if I remember correctly, though, I think because of the cumulative effect of the pills. Definitely after the second or third Pentox of the day I would notice it more.

swolf

Sorry for your arm injury that make you to stop your job. I like also outdoor work, unfortunately my work now is in front of the computer, sometime makes me anxious. I hope in a few months I will begin to do some outdoor work also.

Regarding walking and hiking, they are the best sports for health (Just be careful if you are hiking in Iraq not to cross the border to Iran). Hiking in the US is much more safe and pleasant.

Regarding tai chi, my sister strongly recommends it. You are still young and fit, personally I would propose you to try Ikido. I practised for 6 months, unfortunately because a bad fall my back problems come back and I have to quit. Ikido is much more than a martial art, is culture, politeness and respect each other. It was developed from the way of the samurai fighting, cruel but noble. It gives also a lot of internal relaxation.

Try the Pentox again with one per day in the morning. I am taking Pentox in the middle of my meal as I was advised by the forum to reduce to minimum the side effect.

Keep in touch
James

Neptune, have you experienced any change in curvature since you started Pentox?

I haven't noticed any change in curvature, but after being back on Pentox for 6 months it seemed that the plaques had stopped calcifying and the growth in general was stabilizing according to my Dr.- not shrinking, but better than growing. Erections are still not as hard as they were and am hoping that will change... has anyone had successful reversal of this problem through Pentox or other means? I'm wondering if my body is not letting the erections get completely full due to feeling the discomfort of the plaques (which are mild compared to what they were, but are still present and can be felt). I certainly CAN get full erections still, but believe my body is not letting itself due to the plaques.

In terms of anxiety, I'll state the obvious and say that anyone suffering with Peyronies Disease is apt to anxiety whether they had it before or not, and it's not always easily read on the surface. Unfortunately for me this has affected intimacy as well as questioning what is in my head vs. what is actual physical change from the Peyronies Disease. Therapy and some sort of mindful practice (breathing exercises, meditation for example) seem to work really well with this. It is also accepting that it is a constant battle and that taking on these ways of combatting the problem- exercise, therapy, etc- are just really good to have in one's life anyways. Putting a positive spin on the problem.

Something I'm curious about from people on the forum is their caffeine intake. I generally drink one-two cups of coffee in the morning, and though it's prone to cause a more anxiety, the caffeine does open up arteries which in my mind could only help with the Pentox and its purpose. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Regarding coffee I do drink one or two cups in the morning, one afternoon and sometimes one in the evening.

Strange but the afternoon coffee and evening one makes me sometimes sleepy. Maybe because mt low hemoglobin, I don't know.

Is not making me any anxiety and helping with headache if I have some.
I have to mention that I am drinking big cups but half tea spoon of coffee.

James

Quote from: neptune on April 03, 2012, 05:48:10 PM
Something I'm curious about from people on the forum is their caffeine intake. I generally drink one-two cups of coffee in the morning, and though it's prone to cause a more anxiety, the caffeine does open up arteries which in my mind could only help with the Pentox and its purpose. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

I love coffee and tea and drink them off and on, but at the moment I'm not drinking much, except some green tea every once in a while. After drinking caffeine regularly for a while it does bring on anxious feelings for me, and when not drinking coffee I find I wake up easier and have more sustained energy throughout the day vs. the enjoyable but shorter-lasting energy when drinking it. But I do enjoy it and so it's something I always come back to. I don't know about how it would help the Pentox but your theory makes sense to me. Sometimes drinking some coffee would help if I had a headache or was constipated, which could be explained by arteries opening. I will probably not be drinking any caffeine at first when I attempt Pentox again, though if I'm able to continue Pentox for a few months I will try to again.

I have a bunch of yerba mate sitting around that I never drank... now that I think of it I'm really curious as to what substances/compounds/whatever you call them are in that, and also what's in tea and coffee. I think all three of them are healthy in their own ways.

Caffeine is the only long lasting energy buster. All the energy drinks contains caffeine and sugar.
The sugar is giving a higher bust but for short time and followed by deep energy loss.
This is the main reason all the energy drinks should be avoided.

Caffeine open the arteries and easy the blood flow indeed. This is how it helps with headache.

Drinking coffee when taking Pentox it may be bad, I read a post on the forum (before starting Pentox I read all related posts) that Pentox & coffee combination can make you passing out.
I stop drinking coffee for two weeks (first week Pentox 1*400mg/daily, second week 2*400mg/daily) and gradually back to my regular coffee intake. I feel fine, almost end of month three on Pentox.

last think about green tea. It is completely different that the regular red/black tea and is advised for many illnesses. I have drink it in the past, 3 per day for years. It not helped me with nothing as I have observed. The effect may be very individual.

James

Just FYI: caffeine, like other stimulants, is a vasoconstricter, meaning it makes blood vessels smaller. It does increase heart rate though.

-Skjaldborg

Hmmm. It makes all my theory upside down. But reading the bellow I understand that I am wrong.
http://www.relieve-migraine-headache.com/headache-caffeine.html (http://www.relieve-migraine-headache.com/headache-caffeine.html)

If I have migraine is always accompanied by very low blood pressure and low hearth beet. So I understand that increasing my blood pressure helps with the headache.

James

Quote from: swolf on April 03, 2012, 07:06:09 PM
I have a bunch of yerba mate sitting around that I never drank... now that I think of it I'm really curious as to what substances/compounds/whatever you call them are in that, and also what's in tea and coffee. I think all three of them are healthy in their own ways.

I'm having a hard time finding a site that doesn't also sell something, but there's this: "Clinical studies indicate yerba mate leaf inhibits lipoxygenase, an enzyme involved in inflammation and inflammatory diseases. Yerba mate extracts also have been shown to relax smooth muscle, to increase bile flow, and inhibit vasoconstriction." from http://www.rain-tree.com/yerbamate.htm It also contains many antioxidants and minerals, many of those also found in green tea.

Skjaldborg is right about caffeine being a vasoconstrictor, but it appears (just from some quick googling, not really concrete sources) yerba mate also contains theobromine, which is a vasodilator and would counteract the caffeine. Though George also points out:

QuoteAlthough Pentoxifylline produces few interactions, there are a few that we should be aware of.  Pentoxifylline is known as a "xanthine" compound.  Therefore Pentoxifylline can interact with other "xanthine" compounds and cause toxicity in rare cases.  Other xanthines are 1) Caffeine ie Coffee, Guarana, Yerba Mate and Tea.  2) Theobromine ie Chocolate and Yerba Mate.  And 3) Theophylline ie Tea.  An example of this potential interaction is documented here.  And since all of these share a common base, anyone having a sensitivity to any of them should use care with Pentoxifylline.

from https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,22.msg18189.html#msg18189 (https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,22.msg18189.html#msg18189)

I have started today with one Pentox pill in the morning with food and will see how my second attempt at it goes and post about it. I plan to move up to two pills, one in the morning and one afternoon, and if I tolerate it well will just leave the dosage there. I'm not a big person (5'8" and 140 lbs at most, usually in the 130s) and I think three pills was a little much for me.

I feel I'm in a much better spot to deal with the anxiety-related side effects this time, going into it prepared. The Stabilium supplement mentioned elsewhere on the forum has helped a lot and I have been on a maintenance dosage of 2 caps every other day for the past few weeks, plus a few other supplements I experiment with. Feeling pretty good at the moment, so we'll see how it goes!

(I also want to add, for anyone out there reading this, that I am prone to severe anxiety. Far from always, but I have that potential. Just for a little context and reference for those that may be in the same boat. )

swolf

Happy to read you feel better and good you begin with Pentox.

As I wrote you, I am taking it during my meal and the evening dose before 05:30 PM per George advise. The little bit side effects I had in the beginning have gone. Hope it will be for you the same.

Move to two pills daily after one week at least. It will make your body to get used to.

James

I must have missed the "before 5PM" one. Is that because of the side effects or for better absorption?
Because I usually take 1 morning (around 7 am), one lunch time around 1 pm and one before i go to bed.. (that would be around 10 to 12 PM)
I hardly have side effects.

Luc

I think the 5:30 PM is because the side effects.

PENTOX effect on Peyronie's>Re: Pentox? In my case has worsened situation>« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2012, 11:47:00 PM »

QuoteI ALWAYS take Pentox WITH the food.  It could be IMMEDIATELY before or DURING or IMMEDIATELY after.  But it needs to be at the same time you are eating in order to avoid gastro intestinal problems.  And by all means try to avoid taking it anytime close to bed time.  I take mine around 9:00AM, NOON, and 5:30PM.  - George

I stick to George advise and some small side effects gone by now.

James

There is NO REQUIREMENT medically to take the last dose of the day around 5:00 PM.  I recommend the last dose of the day around that time for 2 reasons:

1)  It avoids intestinal upset as much as possible.
2)  It concentrates the medication during daytime hours when inflammation is at its peak.

- George

George

Your advises never failed me, so I try to pass the information to others.

James

I have had to stop after two days. That wasn't really expected. I am going to try again, obviously, but Pentox may be something I am not able to take. What I am experiencing is low-level but not at all pleasant, and is the exact same feeling/reaction I had after my previous month-long trial (far less of a reaction, of course). It is not anxiety of the hand-wringing variety, it is seems more like a disorganization in the brain, which in turn does cause anxious feelings. I need to get a handle on what exactly it's doing if I want to find a way that I am able to tolerate it.

I recently left a stressful job and am starting a different (easier) part-time job in a week, so in the meantime I have had nothing but free time and have been walking at least 8 miles a day. I love walking and it has always been my preferred method of exercise (and relaxation), but I think I will need definitely need to start an intensive form of exercise, to get more oxygen into my body among all the other benefits. I have been eating pretty well. It just seems my particular brain chemistry does not handle Pentox well - I'm not done experimenting yet, though.

It is important to note that PentoxifYLLiNE is CHEMICALLY related to TheophYLLINE found in Tea and Chocolate AND CaffEINE found in coffee.  As such, it can have similar effects in terms of stimulating (or overstimulating) the nervous system.  In my case, it actually tend to exacerbate my hypertension, but I continued to take it for years in the past because I had other ways (increasing medication) to deal with the hypertension issue.  It also tends to put me "on edge".  So this is probably what you are experiencing.  - George

Hello everyone -

I have now been on Pentox on and off for three years (since I was 23 years old). Recently, I have noticed that when sitting for longer periods of time, 30 mins or more, I experience slight swelling and tightness in my feet. This is accompanied by increased temperature in my extremities and a tingling feeling as well. Does this sound like a common side effect that any of you have experienced, or is this something I need to get looked at by a doctor?

Bentyoung,

When I was on pentox, I occasionally noticed some tingling or jittery feelings, particularly if I took the doses a little too close together. It's probably not a big problem but be sure to mention it to whoever prescribed pentox to you, just to be sure. Ask if you can space out the dosages or even reduce your intake from 1200mg per day to 800mg.

Skjaldborg

I take only 600-800mg daily of pentox but it provokes insomnia to me....

Try taking the second one with meal not later than 05:30 PM. It made me insomnia also and heavy sweating when I tacked it at 08 or 09 PM.

James

It is very interesting to read these comments about Pentox. I did not know that it is chemically related to Theophylline, and I am very sensitive to chocolate and coffee. Once in a while I have those same tingling and jittery feelings, and I very rarely consume coffee or chocolate.

Someone can tell me about drug interactions side effects in treatment with low dose cialis and pentox? Both are vasodilators, I'm affraid of major complications because pentox does a mention to have caution in association with others vasodilators.
I trust in my doctor, but i would like to know opinions about, especially from who take the two drugs in association

Thanks
Tom

I am taking low dose Cialis (4 to 5mg), Pentox 2*400mg, 100mg Aspirin with no problems.
Morning Pentox
Lunch Aspirin
Evening Pentox & Cialis
Each works different. Pentox affects the red blood cells, Aspiring affecting blood clothing, Cialis reducing blood pressure.

Hope it helps
James

Quote from: tommarkey on July 02, 2012, 06:32:01 PM
Someone can tell me about drug interactions side effects in treatment with low dose cialis and pentox? Both are vasodilators, I'm affraid of major complications because pentox does a mention to have caution in association with others vasodilators.
I trust in my doctor, but i would like to know opinions about, especially from who take the two drugs in association

Thanks
Tom

drug interaction checker @ drugs.com: http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.php (http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.php)
pentox + cialis: http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=2144-1395,1826-1178 (http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=2144-1395,1826-1178)

don't check these too often if you're hypochondriac  :D

I have asked my uro to prescribe me Pentox a few months ago after learning the subject on the forum.
He prescribed me Pentox 400mg daily but worn me that it may cause several internal bleeding an I should stop taking the 100mg Aspirin. I suppose is from the written warnings of those medications.
I listen to his recommendation for one week, than added back the Aspirin and added the second Pentox 400mg.
All this while taking already Cialis.
A few months later after coming back from a Peyronies learning conference from the US he told me what I have learned when I begin to read the forum that Pentox is the first line oral treatment for Peyronies.

My approach is carefull and slow to any new medication because I have a lot of allergies. It works for me.

cps links are usefull, but you will have to spend a lot of time if you really want to learn about the drugs interaction with other drugs and even food.

QuoteCialis (tadalafil) interacts with more than 200 other drugs.

QuotePentoxil (pentoxifylline) interacts with more than 10 other drugs.

James

i'm on my 11th week of my pentox treatment. constantly on 2*400mg.

i notice slight improvement in erection quality. regarding pain, no great difference. but i would definetely say it's less.

now on the side effects:

i take my pills at 11a.m. and 11p.m. sometimes i wake up late, i take my morning pill at noon or sometimes even at 1p.m. if my regular sleeping is interrupted, especially if i take alcohol the day before, side effects increase significantly. dizziness and blurred vision. and hot weather also stimulates side effects. any thoughts on pentox interaction with alcohol? or is it just an indirect result, instead of a direct interaction? and what about the impact of the daytime temperature?

moreover, i can't take my pill if i'm drinking at 11p.m. if i take it, i get very easily drunk, though generally i am a good drinker. in other words, i notice symptoms of blurred vision and dizziness. (add to that the effect of alcohol)

and insomnia. taking the second one at 11 a.m. makes it impossible to sleep for slightly two hours. but i do handle it, no big deal. my question is the following, especially for those who take 3*400mg per day, do you necessarily divide your daytime to three, meaning one pill per 8hours, so it means really regularly organized daytime routines? is time that vitally important? or is it the biological time that holds much more importance? so guys, those of you who take 3*400, do you organize it according to meals, biological hours, or real hours? i ask this because intend to increase my dosage to 3*400 when the academic term begins.

thanks for all help...

As far as my case goes, mentioned earlier in this thread, Pentox is something I simply cannot take. The mental effects are too much to handle.

Quote from: finarod on August 15, 2012, 06:01:14 AM
my question is the following, especially for those who take 3*400mg per day, do you necessarily divide your daytime to three, meaning one pill per 8hours, so it means really regularly organized daytime routines? is time that vitally important? or is it the biological time that holds much more importance? so guys, those of you who take 3*400, do you organize it according to meals, biological hours, or real hours? i ask this because intend to increase my dosage to 3*400 when the academic term begins.

thanks for all help...

Pentoxifylline is best taken WITH MEALS.  1)  Taking with meals reduces gastrointestinal side effects.  2) Taking with meals reduces sleep disturbances.  3) Taking with meals concentrates anti-inflammatory effects during daytime hours when inflammation tends to be at its peak.  - George

Quote from: finarod on August 15, 2012, 06:01:14 AM
i'm on my 11th week of my pentox treatment. constantly on 2*400mg.

i notice slight improvement in erection quality. regarding pain, no great difference. but i would definetely say it's less.

now on the side effects:

i take my pills at 11a.m. and 11p.m. sometimes i wake up late, i take my morning pill at noon or sometimes even at 1p.m. if my regular sleeping is interrupted, especially if i take alcohol the day before, side effects increase significantly. dizziness and blurred vision. and hot weather also stimulates side effects. any thoughts on pentox interaction with alcohol? or is it just an indirect result, instead of a direct interaction? and what about the impact of the daytime temperature?

moreover, i can't take my pill if i'm drinking at 11p.m. if i take it, i get very easily drunk, though generally i am a good drinker. in other words, i notice symptoms of blurred vision and dizziness. (add to that the effect of alcohol)

and insomnia. taking the second one at 11 a.m. makes it impossible to sleep for slightly two hours. but i do handle it, no big deal. my question is the following, especially for those who take 3*400mg per day, do you necessarily divide your daytime to three, meaning one pill per 8hours, so it means really regularly organized daytime routines? is time that vitally important? or is it the biological time that holds much more importance? so guys, those of you who take 3*400, do you organize it according to meals, biological hours, or real hours? i ask this because intend to increase my dosage to 3*400 when the academic term begins.

thanks for all help...

i've been on 2*400 a day for 8 months now. Has definitely helped. I have one more prescription (was prescribed 3*400 a day for 6 months but since I can only take 2 (3 makes me sick) i've gotten to take it for longer, will probably last me closer to a year). I would suggest taking it with meals and stop taking it so late. I take one at 9 am and one at 6-7 pm. No later.

Myself taking also 2*400mg daily with the meals and not late than 6 PM per George advice not to take Pentox late or without meal. Have no any side effects even drinking a few beers.
With 3*400mg a day, or taking the Pentox late, I have very uncomfortable feeling, so if I forget sometimes taking in in time and with meal, I am skipping taking it. Not good, but better than the uncomfortable feeling.

James

listening to your advices, I'm now taking it right after dinner. insomnia effect diminishes, but does not fade away. maybe because of consumption of tea and coffee during the day, whose chemical substance teofylline interacts with pentoxifylline...

finarod

Happy to hear about the improvement.
I had many  Pentox side effects until per George advice I begin taking it during the meal, not after.
I am eating half of me meal (more or less) taking Pentox and continue my meal.
Try out this way, hope will help further.
I am also taking 100mg Ubiquinol before meal in the morning, 2*1000mg L-Arginie, 2*100mg Ubiquinol and 4mg Cialis before meal in the evening.
Too much coffee and tea may be not good, myself drinking them also, but I think the special small cups of tea and coffee (I love them after drinking them for 10 years, I never drink tea before) are not too much, the high sugar content in the cup may be bad.

James

Coffee ... healthy.
Sugar ... not.

- George

Quote from: james1947 on August 18, 2012, 05:59:55 PM
I am also taking 100mg Ubiquinol before meal in the morning
James

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to take it with or after meals because it is fat soluble like Vit E?

I am taking the Ubiquinol before the meal because I read on the forum that other people are doing like that.
Maybe not to be too close to the Pentox?
From the other side, on the bottle is written to take it with food, so I don't know what is the correct.

James

Doubts about Pentox

I have been taking Pentox for almost exactly a year. I started about six months after the beginning of Peyronie's. It is hard to tell how effective it has been because I have had two more plaques develop in the past year. Did it slow down their development? It is hard to say. The first plaque has remained but feels softer in comparison to the two newer plaques.

Regardless, I had experienced periods of queasiness and a bit of dizziness occasionally, but it was tolerable. But, in the last month I began noticing changes in stool color and diarrhea. I was very alarmed by the grey, chalky color of the stools and started to do some research. The Trental Tx description mention cholestasis (total or partial suppression of the flow of bile) as a rare side effect. PDF link: http://products.sanofi.us/trental/trental.pdf (http://products.sanofi.us/trental/trental.pdf).

I also noticed a potential effect on the WorstPills.org web site: http://www.worstpills.org/results.cfm?drug_id=497&x=37&y=17 (http://www.worstpills.org/results.cfm?drug_id=497&x=37&y=17) It lists this drug as a Do Not Use drug because it has limited effectiveness and may cause bone marrow toxicity. Toxicity for those suffering from which illness? I had not even considered that the changes in the production of blood cells may occur in the bone marrow. I am no physician or pharmacist, but these issues concern me. However, curepeyronies.net cites otherwise an Iranian study: http://www.curepeyronies.net/Tennewsl.html (http://www.curepeyronies.net/Tennewsl.html) so at a point, who does one take seriously?

I stopped taking Pentox several days ago and everything appears and feels normal again. I started to ponder this and realized that Peyronie's is essentially an inflammatory condition. It appears that the plaques are built up in response to special chemicals that signal an injury has occurred and the body subsequently develops a plaque to try to heal or "patch up" an injury. So, would not an anti-inflammatory course of treatment be more effective? Would changes in diet affect Peryonie's favorably by mitigating the body's inflammation response? Perhaps, Potaba would be more effective? Oral Therapy for Peyronie's Disease: http://www.nature.com/ijir/journal/v14/n5/full/3900869a.html (http://www.nature.com/ijir/journal/v14/n5/full/3900869a.html)

Pfree

Pfree

Definitely can't argue with someone personal experience regarding Pentox or any other treatment or medication.
The assessment of the results may be different, but not the facts.
Before starting myself with Pentox, I made a small "research" regarding forum members experience and opinion on Pentox.
You can find it at:

Quote from: james1947 on March 27, 2012, 10:07:20 AM

James

Pfree,  Thank you for sharing the bone marrow toxicity issue with Pentoxifylline.  I had never heard of it before and have NEVER seen it including in the warnings regarding the medication.  Now that you have brought it up, I find it is mentioned here -> http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/50/21/6806.full.pdf (http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/50/21/6806.full.pdf).  Certainly ANYONE taking Pentox should be made aware of this risk.  I actually may be experiencing some of this toxicity and I recall a few other guys mentioning problems with blood cell counts.  In my case I experienced low white cell counts for several years, but those have suddenly returned to normal (I am no longer taking Pentox regularly).  But now I am experiencing issues with mild anemia.  Knowing what you have shared will certainly cause me to avoid resuming Pentox.  At this point Ubiquinol is working well for me.  However, one does have to remember that all meds DO have potential side effects.  But it is VERY important that the patient AND the prescribing physician be aware of them.

This new information would imply that anyone using Pentoxifylline should be keeping an eye on their blood cell counts.

As for anti-inflammatories, trust me, they have been tried repeatedly around here and they don't work.  AND anti-inflammatories can ALSO CAUSE bone marrow toxicity.  That is the bottom line.  - George

I would make it clear here that immunosuppression in the form of white cell depletion IS listed as a potential side effect of Pentoxifylline.  The fact that Pentoxifylline suppresses the immune system, is, in fact, at least part of the reason it is effective against Peyronie's.  Many would argue that it is the primary, if not sole reason it is effective in treating Peyronie's.  Additionally, EVERYTHING I have read so far indicates the the bone marrow depression/suppression (the commonly used terms) is temporary and clears once treatment ceases.  It IS however DELAYED.  So if you take Pentoxifylline, and you end with bone marrow depression, it will occur some months AFTER starting the Pentox.  When you stop taking Pentox, it will take some months or perhaps longer to clear and return to normal.  So I suspect that "toxicity" may be a biased and exaggerative term.  I simply think that it is something we all should be aware of and make sure the it is either managed or eliminated if it occurs.  I really can't believe that this is a serious issue and someone as cautious and thorough as Dr Lue has overlooked it.  I also think that there are lots of drugs out there that are far more dangerous than Pentox, but that is just my opinion.  - George

I just want to say that one of my hopes with Pentox was that it will lower my white blood cell counts that are very high.
Until now, 8 months on Pentox, it didn't happen.

James

Guys,

I just started with Pentox yesterday(400mgX3 in my country it is on the market as TORENTAL) and for some reason it feels like it is causing pain inside my penis( a burning sensation). Has anyone experienced this? Don't know if this means that it is attacking the scar or just making it worse:)


CE

alexsisserieus

In my opinion and the opinion of almost all the people on the forum, Pentox will not cause pain or worsening other Peyronies symptoms. It helps with the pain, not the contrary.
The burning sensation you are experiencing may be the increased blood flow to your penis or something else.
Give more time to Pentox to show you results.

James   

Hi there

I started on Pentox this saturday. I'm on in for 3 days and tomorrow I will get off, the anxiety is severe, like on my worse days. I'm on treatment for anxiety disorder and Pentox sweep away all the anti-anxiety benefits of paxil and lorazepam. I'm very disappointed with this, but the level of anxiety was out of control. I'll continue with L-Arginine and planning to add more supplements. I need to read more post of the supplements section.

Maybe one day I'll be ready for Pentox.

Jacob, I completely understand. I am unable to take Pentox for the same reason. You should try Acetyl L-Carnitine and CoQ10, and consider the VED.

 I'm considering the VED, but i'm very lost, I should do some research about it.

C0Q10 is quite expensive, it's worth it? Anyway, I'll buy some ALC to add.

Thanks for the tip.

I you can get it from the US (I mean no import problems to EC) take a look on the prices bellow:
http://www.iherb.com/Coenzyme-CoQ10
Maybe have an European company that sales on those prices also.

James

Quote from: jacob on September 17, 2012, 04:26:37 PM
C0Q10 is quite expensive, it's worth it? Anyway, I'll buy some ALC to add.

Honestly, I can't say if it's worth it or not. Maybe others notice an effect and can give their opinion, but as for me: I started taking both near the beginning of 2012 and continue to because they seem to help and there is research backing them up, but it's hard to say how things would have been different otherwise. I guess I'm just trusting that they have slowed the progression. I think, but am not sure, that I wasn't able to take them for a few days and had an increase in pain and symptoms. There is a 3 for 1 sale going on at Puritan.com for eight more days and they ship internationally. With the sale it might be more cost effective than a European source, I don't know. I know ACL is said to help with anxiety also.

I think you should give the VED a try. Especially this one: http://www.diabetessupplies4less.com/94009701.html (http://www.diabetessupplies4less.com/94009701.html). Like I said in another thread, I can help you out with outfitting it into a three cylinder device if you do decide to buy it. If Pentox is not an option the VED is one of the other highly recommended treatments, and you should start as soon as you can.

A good explanation regarding CoQ10 can find in the link bellow:
CoQ10 |Coenzyme Q10 | Uses, Side Effects, Safety, and Claims of CoQ10 (http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/heart-failure/tc/coenzyme-q10-topic-overview)

James

Thanks, many thanks, guys

I'm going to try everything that could help me, since I not tolerate Pentox. I'm convinced that a good blood flow is essential in this problem.

One remark on side effects:

I switched from normal release trental tablets (that reach peak levels in blood in 1-1.5 hour) to sustained release pentox capsules (that reach peak levels in blood in 2-4 hours). I would say that side effects are much more less. Dizziness and sleep abnormality are gone.

Moreover, sustained release capsules helps also fighting inflammation for longer hours.

finarod.

A question. I currently seem to have minimal problems with blood flow - I can achieve an erection fairly easily L- arginine + regular gym work has helped with this. Given the side effects of Pentox, is it still worth taking it for the possible plaque reducing action, or would the risk and cost be superfluous in my case?

Jonbinspain

Pentox is a blood thinner. You should ask your doctor if it can harm you.
If you begin to take it, take 400gr for a week or 10 days and then increase to 2*400 daily.
Also as Finarod has written, the sustained release have less side effects (also for me).
Regarding the price, I don't know in Europe, in the US is $0.15 per pill.

James

Quote from: Jonbinspain on October 11, 2012, 03:39:00 AM
A question. I currently seem to have minimal problems with blood flow - I can achieve an erection fairly easily L- arginine + regular gym work has helped with this. Given the side effects of Pentox, is it still worth taking it for the possible plaque reducing action, or would the risk and cost be superfluous in my case?

1)  Healthy erections do not necessarily indicate healthy blood flow.  You can have damage to capilaries in your penis and still achieve healthy erections.

2)  Pentoxifylline does a lot more than thin the blood.  It also blocks TGF-beta1 which is a major key to its anti-Peyronie's qualities.

In light of the above, I would certainly recommend Pentox.  If you take it for a few months and don't get any benefit, or experience intolerable side effects, you can always stop taking it. 

- George

I've taken pentox for 14 months.  Just now seeing this abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14534700) for a 2003 article scared me, since I'm waiting on a slow cancer, and I've quit pentox.

Seems to raise mor questions than it answers but I have always avoided pentox.  Because of a past prostate cancer history, I have been unwillingness to risk the chance that the immune suppression nature of pentox might fan the flame (of sparks if they still exist).  I have a profuse family history of cancer as well.

Both cancer and Peyronie's have at their roots immune system dysfunction.  Being at risk for one means being at risk for the other.  It is highly typical of immune system dysfuntion for auto-immune activity to be co-present with cancer and/or excessive vulnerability to infectious disease.  This is why people with Diabetes face both higher cancer risk AND higher risk of auto immune syndromes like Peyronie's.

The human immune system is closely linked with insulin levels.  There is emerging evidence that high insulin levels indirectly suppress the human immune system via growth hormone secretion.  Diabetics tend to have high insulin levels, since they require more insulin to counter insulin resistance at the cellular level.  But one does not have to be diabetic to have excessively high insulin levels.  There is actually a test for this condition wherein a patient is given a large amount of sugar and then there serum insulin levels are measured.  But it is very likely that typical western diet high in refined carbohydrates is driving high insulin levels which, in turn, is driving a higher rate of immune dysfunction issues such as elevated cancer rates and elevated rates of diseases ranging from diabetes to lupus to peyronie's.

In fact, insulin has the same effect of suppressing the immune system in other creatures as well, which causes some bizaare consequences.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120626061206.htm (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120626061206.htm)

  - George

George,

Without thinking much about this I would tend to blurt out in response to your first paragraph -> Cancer indeed indicates immune system failure but Peyronies Disease is auto-immune related meaning the immune system gone awry, over-activating and turning on the the body instead of invaders or wound processes in which case immune suppression would have its own benefits.  Drugs treating some other auto-immune disease like rheumatoid arthritis and psoriasis also leave one vulnerable to some cancers and other diseases. So while they both indicate an immune system problem it seems on the surface that the problems with the immune system are different with one each.

Hawk, and prostate cancer (my worry too) is a unique cancer among other unique cancers.  Since several urologists have published on treating Peyronies with pentox it's likely some of them knew the Polish paper and deemed it not a problem for PCa.

Hawk,  What you are stating is the classic view of the immune system, but right now a LOT of immune system researchers are disputing that view.  They are saying that auto-immunity has absolutely nothing to do with the strength of the immune system, but rather, among other things, of a lack of sufficient numbers of a certain type of specialized T cell (T-Reg http://www.imgenex.com/Regulatory_cell.php (http://www.imgenex.com/Regulatory_cell.php) ) that enables the immune system to properly IDENTIFY threats to the health of the body.  Thus it actually reflects a weakness in the immune system.  I personally very much subscribe to this view which is why I take immune system boosters like Vitamin D and Low Dose Naltrexone.  I believe this simplistic misconception is a major reason why current treatments are so terribly ineffective.  Auto Immunity and Cancer are both rampant in the world today and after spending billions of research dollars over decades, the medical establishment can still barely treat either of these scourges effectively.  Additionally, it is why so many of the treatments for each of these disease groups is so draconian.  Who can understand why they actually often use exactly the same immune system suppressing drugs to treat auto immune diseases as they use to treat cancer.  Wrong direction on both counts.  And although these treatments exhibit effectiveness in the short term, they usually fail in both cases in the long term.  Much of that failure revolves around that fact that so many researchers are basing their work on a faulty understanding of how the immune system functions and the environmental and metabolic factors that affect it.  That said, I would certainly exercise caution with Pentoxifylline in regards to cancer.  But I think that pless is probably correct in assuming that the Peyronie's experts already have this issue figured out and would not be prescribing Pentox to cancer patients if it were actually an issue.  - George 

I'm trying to get a handle (again) on the anxiety-producing effects of Pentox, and I'm wondering if it's mainly because it is raising blood pressure? (sorry, this may have been addressed a million times, but it's late, I'm tired and can't remember) If Pentox pushes bloodflow to the extremities, does that also include the head? If the veins in my arm were any indication, my blood pressure was pretty high, haha. I'm just wondering if the only stumbling block for using Pentox for me is being able to keep blood pressure lowered (something I've never worried about before; blood pressure is a new thing to me).

Well, I've been taking one pill of Pentox a day for two days now and things are going all right. I've been eating a huge breakfast and taking it then. I can definitely (though it has faded now in the afternoon somewhat) feel the effects that build into the very unpleasant side effects for me, but at this level they are tolerable. I am in a better spot (though my Peyronie's is far worse) mentally and in life than I was earlier this year so that is probably helping, and Stabilium continues to be a great supplement for combating my anxiety. All I can do is wait and see if I will be able to keep this up. I really hope as the Pentox builds up in my system the effects don't increase. But at the moment I am pleasantly surprised, so all I can do is wait. I will bump it up to two pills a day if I am able but I don't think, considering my body weight and the mental side effects, that three will ever be needed or even possible for me to take.

Swolf

I don't think Pentox increases blood pressure, but is from my own experience.
Try taking it during the meal, not after, maybe will have less side effects.
I am taking now 2*400mg daily during meal morning/evening for the last six months, the side effects are all gone. I will try to take 3*400mg daily from today.

James

Yeah, I've been reading that it lowers blood pressure, but from what I can recall it seemed to raise mine. Maybe I'm not completely understanding what blood pressure is, but it seems pretty obvious, so I think I'm right that it increased mine. Who knows, I am doing well on it at the moment, and that's what I'm focusing on now. And yes, I'm taking it in the middle of my big breakfast.

Pentox does NOT lower blood pressure, at least not significantly.  And it does not raise blood pressure directly.  But Pentox can increase low level anxiety, which in turn CAN raise blood pressure.  So there is a pathway via the nervous system whereby Pentox can raise blood pressure.  On the other hand, I know of no pathway by which Pentox can lower blood pressure.  - George

Quote from: George999 on October 30, 2012, 11:04:38 PMBut Pentox can increase low level anxiety, which in turn CAN raise blood pressure.  So there is a pathway via the nervous system whereby Pentox can raise blood pressure.  On the other hand, I know of no pathway by which Pentox can lower blood pressure.  - George

George, maybe as your penis gets better you have less stress and your blood pressure would come down. :D  Or even more indirect,  in Norm's case, it made his wife leave :D

Am on my third day of taking Pentox. My observations are: firstly, there is definitely a mental side effect. I feel more edgy. Secondly, in my experience, not to be mixed with alcohol. Last night and the night before, I had a couple of beers and a glass of wine with my dinner. I then took the Pentox. Within a couple of hours I couldn't keep my eyes open. As hard as I tried, the only way to stay awake was to get up and move around.
Thanks to those who recommended River Pharmacy. Even with their slightly extortionate mailing charges, it was still  the cheapest source I could find. As I can't get an appointment with the Urologist until January, it will give me time to see if this works for me.

Hi everyone,
I am fighting this disease since the beginning of April. Among pills I am taking (such as POTABA) I am taking Trental. I have a question: during last three months I hive experienced Hematospermia. Is there any correlation between the use of Pentox in this phenomenon?

Thanks a lot.

One of the side effects of Pentox may be internal bleeding. This what my uro told me when he prescribed it to me.
I didn't have such side effects, now increased to 3*400mg per day.
In my opinion you should try to find out from the list of the pills you are taking who can make such side effect.
I am proposing you to read more about Potaba on the forum, not too much successful stories and I didn't remember reading about no one taking Potaba and Pentox at the same time. I may be wrong.

James

Hi James,
two doctors suggested me to do it. However, these first two doctors indicated to me to use a small amount of POTABA (60 and 600mg) combined with PENTOX. The third one increased the POTABA to higher levels (6 grams/day). He also told me to discharge PENTOX because useless...I decided to use a high level of POTABA and to not discharge PENTOX. Finally, I have carefully read any post of the forum and I thank you for your help and suggestion. I will inform you of the progress.

Thanks again

PS: as I posted in another section "PENTOX - ALTERNATIVES ???" in my case it seems to work...I will inform this community of the results.

For me I have noticed increased anxiety and a bit of trouble catching my breath. The worst is that it messes with my sleep. I also agree that it increases alcohol's effects DRAMATICALY. Drinking before bed on pentox also makes the insomnia worse.

When I begin taking Pentox I had some mild side effects. Anxiety and a general feeling of not being well, some stomach discomfort, excessive sweating. I didn't stop drinking, I mean beer mainly, not heavier alcohols.
Started with one 400mg during breakfast, after one week added one during dinner not latter than 06:00 PM. The side effects gone slowly slowly and I can say that today, after six months have no side effects. I think my body get used to Pentox.
Three days ago I started to take one at lunch also so now 3*400mg daily, no side effects as for today.
I hope all the other Pentox fans  ;D will have the same experience with side effects during time. :)

James

The big concern with Potaba is long term liver damage.  Other than that, it is effective in treating Peyronie's, at least in the short term.  - George

I took pentox for a total of 8 months. Here is my list of good effects and bad side effects:

The bad:

1. stomach discomfort, particularly with acidic foods
2. strange dreams if I took it too late at night
3. a little more jittery feeling than normal, worse with coffee
4. a slight feeling of detachment or not caring, but this may have been due to the psychological aspects of the disease

The good:

1. reduced peyronie's pain in a matter of weeks
2. decreased recovery time from long runs (probably due to more oxygen and less inflammation)
3. improved erections
4. increased sperm motility (my wife got pregnant right away)
5. improvements in size and decreased plaque size

Skjaldborg

*edit: spelling

I have mentioned in the past that if I have the flue I stop taking Pentox because I am afraid it is suppressing the immune system.
Last flue, started 10 days ago, I didn't stop taking Pentox, the flue gone as fast as without Pentox.
Maybe it is not affecting my immune system anymore? Or maybe never does?

James

Well, I can tolerate Pentox at this point! I've been taking it since my post a few weeks ago, and in the past few days have increased it to two pills a day. A week or two ago I had indigestion and stomach pain problems, but those went away and haven't been a problem since. I do feel on edge sometimes and have had a horrible time falling asleep, but I think (not 100% sure) this is the first time I've tried Pentox while on a continual dosage of Stabilium, and that is probably crucial. I foresee being able to take at least two pills a day for a while. My condition is in a very bad place at the moment, so this is the first ray of hope in a while. I'm really conflicted over whether to add the VED back in as it has caused me immense damage and is one of the reasons I'm not in a minor, relatively stable stage anymore.

To anyone that can't take Pentox because of anxiety, keep trying! You literally can't get worse anxiety than I've had at times, and I seem to be functioning on Pentox. It just takes experimentation and sometimes setting things aside and waiting 2, 4, 6 months or something. But it's better late than never.

I have used pentox off and on for 7 years.  I had a couple ulcers for awhile and this affected me taking it.  I believe that the pentox contributed towards my stomach issues but the 20 pills of ibuprofen a day didnt help.  My stomach issues have resolved and I have been taking 2-3 day for months now with no issues.  I do take prilosec once a day and this does help keep my stomach in check.  Eat some food with it and you should be fine.  Pentox has helped a lot and is well tolerated if used right.

I can assure you that it would be a miracle if you took 20 ibuprofen a day and did NOT have bleeding ulcers.  If you were taking any where close to that there is no reason at this point to attribute it to Pentox.   

Quote from: Hawk on November 15, 2012, 08:39:32 AM
I can assure you that it would be a miracle if you took 20 ibuprofen a day and did NOT have bleeding ulcers.  If you were taking any where close to that there is no reason at this point to attribute it to Pentox.

Amen to that.

I switched from Trental non extended release to pentox extended release "Aventis" purchased from river pharmacy in india.

I noticed: 
my hands and feet stay red longer at night now.
I do not wake up with the bad taste in my mouth.
no longer stomach upset.

I wonder if I can take them without food now.   Anyone else using the river pills ?.  I was surprised when I received them as the website description did not indicate Extended release, but it is clearly written on the packaging.   I also noticed the pills are thicker than the trentals but also 400mg so they obviously are using different binders/fillers.  One downside is the long time they took to arrive by mail, almost a month.

I am using Trental from riverfarmacy and very happy with the results.
I increased recently from 2*400mg to 3*400mg daily and no side effects. I am taking it always with food but in a few occasion I tacked late or after the meal and no side effects. It was not possible when I have started because of the severe side effects but now is fine.

James

The only side effect I've had and sometimes still have with Pentox is the frequent urinating at night. Some nights I fill half a gallon of urine. Yes, I piss into a clear plastic jug at night to measure the amount of urine I excrete.

When I first started Pentox, I urinated an entire gallon the first night and became severely dehydrated. I had to ease myself into it by slowly increasing the dosage as per a forum member's recommendation.

Other than that, no problems. Thank God.

I can and do take three pills a day now. It puts me slightly on edge and I would rather not take it in that regard, but of course I'm not going to let that stop me. It is NOTHING like the reactions I've had in the past. The edginess I have now is mental and in most cases can be managed by being consciously aware of thought patterns that might turn to anxiety and not letting those progress into full-blown tension. Not always easy but it's certainly manageable and so I'm very relieved to be able to take three pills a day now. Hopefully I can reverse the extreme damage the VED caused me and get back to where I was earlier this year, though it seems like a long road to even get there. We'll see.

Matt,

I have the same issue as you, excess urination.  I take 3 x 400mg.  The other side effects seem to lesson over time but I am still at the toilet much more than normal :( Also the situation is aggravating my prostate (more so than normal w/o pentox). 

funnyfarm

What you mean by "aggravating my prostate (more so than normal w/o Pentox)"?
How the prostate is influenced?

James

My prostate is always tender, but more so on the pentox.  Not to the point that I would go off the drug, but that and the increased urination are a nuisance..

funnyfarm,

Try not to drink any fluids a few hours before going to sleep and if you're crazy like me, keep an empty water jug by your bed so you can urinate without having to go the toilet which takes time and disturbs your sleep. I just stand up, piss, wipe, and drop back into bed. Yep, almost paradise. Of course, I don't have a wife or girlfriend so who knows what a woman would think about that crazy crap.  :)

However, the Pentox does not seem to cause much of that effect for me anymore now that I've been on it for 10 months. In fact, I increased my dose to 2,400 mg./day and there seems to be only the slightest side effect. Maybe a bit of anxiety but not enough to make me stop.

Just remember it is no longer a "water"jug  ;D

I've only been on Pentox for a couple of months. At the moment, I'm on 800mg a day. The anxiety symptoms seem to have mostly abated. As far as excess urination goes, I can't say that I've noticed much difference. I'm 63 and I've had to get up once a night to pee for a couple of years now. I still usually have to get up once a night. Maybe if and when I step the dosage up, I might see a change?

Thanks Hawk, I appreciate the reminder.  ;D

I'm now taking about 2,400 mg. of Pentox per day and although I get some stomach discomfort when I don't take it with food and a tiny bit of anxiety, it's no where enough to stop me from taking the larger dose. I had to work up to getting to 1,200 mg. per day but I doubled that dose in one day and had very little additional side effects.

I take 400 mg. every couple of hours with food.

Matt, did the bump up to 2400mg effect the urination frequency ?  And any improvement in peyronies symptoms with the larger dose ? tnx.

funnyfarm:

I increased from 1,600 mg. to 2,400 mg. in one day. The only side effect was a little bit of anxiety and some stomach discomfort because I was taking the extra doses on an empty stomach. After the first day or so, I got used to it right away. And, no, I haven't had to urinate anymore than what I was seeing from the 1,600 mg.

I'm guessing the extra urinating was because the Pentox is somewhat of a stimulant and it activates the bladder sphincter to release urine. I now have nights when I wake up to urinate once and some nights when I wake up to urinate 3 or 4 times. But with my "jug o' urine" strategy, I don't have to go all the way to the bathroom which would wake me up and make it harder to go back to sleep.

If you decide to use the jug o' urine technique, be sure to use a thick plastic jug. In the morning, I dump the urine into the toilet and rinse the jug out in the bathtub. Sometimes I will pour a bit of bleach into it to make sure all bacteria is dead and to get rid of any yellowing of the jug. I've been using the same jug now for 7 months.

Yep. This is what my life has come down to.  :P

Hi Matt, I think in my case I urinate more with the pentox because I feel slightly dehydrated, and my mouth is a little dry.  So I drink double the amount of water I normally do.  I do not wake at night much thankfully.  I would also say I feel sometimes a slight racing heart beat after taking a pill.  At first I thought it was anxiety, but seems to be more just the physical manifestation as opposed to actually feeling worried or anxious.

I suspect it is probably anxiety.  Aniety is really a biological thing at its roots.  It is not simply a mental thing of being worried, but being worried causes the biological manifestation.  With a number of drugs, including Pentox, you can end up with the biological side without ever experiencing psychological manifestations.  There is a biological process whereby underlying biological anxiety increases blood pressure and the change in blood pressure causes an increase in urination as the kidneys attemp to cope.  It is also probably not worth it to continue with this for too long.  Give yourself time to adjust and then either find something to mitigate the side effect or, if necessary, stop taking the Pentoxifylline. - George

If the side effects of a drug are anxiety, sinusitis, or constipation, I will get that side effect every single time. However, my body quickly adjusts to any medication I take so the side effect is curbed. Pentox is not an exception.

Perhaps consistently taking Pentox for a while will help with the side effects for anyone experiencing anxiety or stomach discomfort. Always taking Pentox with food is essential. Perhaps taking a supplement that has calming effect may be an option to help take some of the edge off.

I also notice much less side effects now and I take a theanine pill at  the first sign of any nervousness.

A question about Pentox. Is the purpose of taking it during a full meal solely to mitigate any bad side effects? I've ended up taking it many times now on an empty stomach, or at least not immediately during a meal, and I don't experience any unwanted side effects that I can tell. But am I losing any of its BENEFITS not taking it with a meal? Is it fully effective either way or should I make an effort to always eat it with a meal?

I don't know if taking Pentox with food aids in absorption, but I don't recall seeing anything that suggested you would get less of an effect with or without food. No idea. For me, taking it with food helps in avoiding stomach upset.

I'll be starting Pentox within the next few days. I've noticed in this thread some people have said they felt anxious or aggressive on this medicine. I already have a very anxious disposition, so I'm hoping this doesn't add to this... Should one stop taking it immediately if they feel extremely anxious or aggressive? I always feel anxiety, so it would have to be intense for me to notice an increase in anxiety.

John, if a drug says the side effect is anxiety, sinus congestion, and/or constipation, I will get it. Taking Viagra or Cialis is nasal nightmare.

I'm taking 2,400 mg/day of Pentox, under doctor supervision, and yes, I get a very, very slight amount of anxiety when I take 800 mg. at one time but nothing so much to get me to stop taking the Pentox. My body got used to the side effects pretty quickly. I had to taper into Pentox early on because I was urinating so much I became dangerously dehydrated. One or two other people here have experienced excessive urination but to my recollection, it wasn't something that got them to stop taking it.

Just ease into it if you get any side effects and back off a bit until your body gets used to it. Obviously if you're having severe side effects you may wish to stop and speak to your doctor. Otherwise, don't stress, take it slow, and let the Pentox start doing its' job.

Pentox has caused me severe anxiety in the past but I have found ways to lessen that (Stabilium is a supplement that works wonder for me, for example), the most effective being just setting it aside for a good part of a year until I was in a better place in my life and mentally. I am also a naturally somewhat aggressive person and Pentox can add to that, but that has really faded for me as an issue. It is well worth the effort if you can find a way to handle it though. If you do get a level of anxiety you don't think you can function with, yes, I would stop immediately. But then keep trying to take it. I don't think you'll really know if you can handle it until you try it a few separate times. Play it safe and be honest with yourself though; don't force yourself to take something that is causing you very real problems.

Can you tell me how much Stabillium you are taking ?  I take it as directed on the package, but do not notice much if any effect.  thanks

I've been reading these posts and anxiety seems a common side effect. I already have a hellish time with severe anxiety. Should I risk taking Pentox? If I take it and it increases anxiety I'll be in hellish torment.

Again, should I risk having a hellish spike in anxiety, or is it possible I won't have any increase in anxiety? If there's a possibility I won't have any increase in anxiety I may take the leap.

funnyfarm:
I take two capsules of Stabilium not every day, but close to it. I was taking two a day because "better safe than sorry" but have found I don't always need it that frequently, so I skip days now. I think it helps me a lot more than I even realize though, so I will continue with it at least as long as I am on Pentox (I'm expecting to be on that for at least the next year or two, if not more). I'm on Amazon's Subscribe&Save subscription with it which makes it slightly cheaper than their listed price, and I go through more than one box a month but less than two.

I've kind of been on automatic, zombie mode with taking Stabilium honestly, and haven't thought about my ingestion of it much. I actually think one capsule a day might work for me, and maybe I should try that.

John B:
If you have severe anxiety at the moment, I think taking Pentox could very well exacerbate that. In my experience it has sometimes acted as a fuel on a fire. But I've also started taking it on low level anxiety and I didn't notice an increase. If there's any way at all you can lower your anxiety before trying it, that might be better. Do you already have a supply of Pentox on hand? What are you doing to treat your anxiety?

For context, I have had severe anxiety to the point of dissociation (dissociation in the past before Peyronie's; severe anxiety both before and after) and I've also had experiences with Pentox that I would categorize as "hellish torment." I can now take it and function perfectly fine (there are still some noticeable effects), so there is always hope.

I don't take anything to treat anxiety right now, but I do have some Xanax and Ativan, have never taken them though... And yes, I have some Pentox.

It seems like most here get anxiety on Pentox. Is it possible not to have any side effect of anxiety, or do a fair amount of people never get anxiety from taking it?

John, there are any number of things that can cause anxiety. Low testosterone is one cause. When you have a chance to get a full blood panel done, you and your doctor can make the determination if that might be a cause.

Personally, I would stay away from Xanax and Ativan.

I don't think most of the forum members got anxiety from Pentox.
Myself, I had never encountered anxiety. Other side effects yes until per George advice I take it during meal and not later than 18 PM, but not anxiety.

James

I haven't noticed any anxiety, but it helps that I'm taking Trental, the slow release pentox.
I'll second Matt's suggestion about the testosterone-anxiety connection. I had absolutely crushing anxiety last year. I couldn't take it anymore so I went to the doctor and that's when it was found I had low testosterone. I'm thinking a lot of guys who experience anxiety from pentox probably had some anxiety from low T anyway, and it was just aggravated by the pentox.

At the very least, there is nothing wrong with getting a full blood panel done.

Then, get a copy of the results for yourself and when you go see your doctor, bring the results with you and ask questions, especially if the results point to anomalies.

I had a panel done last March and I waited until recently to get a hard copy. Dumb. I noticed that I either had a B-12 deficiency or anemia or something else related to red blood count. My doctor never mentioned it!! Could my blood count have anything to do with Peyronie's? I have no idea, but I'm gonna find out. I'm gonna see my doctor at the end of the month and I'm going to give him a chance to explain his failure to alert me to this and without a reasonable response, I'm going to read him the riot act. Then, I'm going to insist on a new blood panel be done immediately.


Please, please, guys, I'm begging you, get a full blood panel done and get a hard copy of the results then talk to your doctor. If you have a question as to what they should check, here's what I recommend:

Testosterone Free
Testosterone Total
Thyroid Panels (T3, T4, TSH)
IGF-1
CMP Profile
Lipid Profile
CBC w/Diff profile
PSA
C-Reactive Protein
DHEA-sulfate
LH
Estrogens
Vitamin D


You may find some very eye-opening things about your health.

Matt,  I would suggest you go easy on your doctor regarding Red Cell issues.  It is common practice among doctors to ignore marginally out of range lab reaedings.  And even with significantly out of range numbers, they often prefer to wait a few months and retest rather than risk tilting at windmills.  But, indeed, he should be doing a followup test on the blood cell counts.

As for the tests you are recommending here, they are indeed good suggestions.  I would, however, also suggest that guys here really learn as much as possible ABOUT these tests before having them done.  In the case of Testosterone, DHEA and Vitamin D, especially, most docs will tell you your numbers are "normal" even if they are way below optimal.  This is because the docs tend to go by the reference ranges the labs generate and many of those ranges are flawed.  "Normal" levels of Vitamin D, for example are an arbitrary number specified by the Institute of Medicine.  You should instead try to get yourself in a range specified by the top vitamin D endocrinologists.  They are the ones who understand what constitutes healthy levels of Vitamin D.  In the case of DHEA and Testosterone, you want to be in a "youthful range" not necessarily in an age adjusted range.  The docs expect that if you are 50, your T will be through the floor low and they will tell you that is "normal".  In fact if you T is in a healthy range, they will insist that it is too high.  So before you get the test, be sure you thoroughly understand what the results mean AND what constitutes LOW and what constitutes HIGH.  Also it is good to know what sorts of problems can cause either HIGH numbers or LOW numbers on specific tests.  The more you know, the better your outcomes will be.

George999:

Matt,  I would suggest you go easy on your doctor regarding Red Cell issues.  It is common practice among doctors to ignore marginally out of range lab reaedings.  And even with significantly out of range numbers, they often prefer to wait a few months and retest rather than risk tilting at windmills.  But, indeed, he should be doing a followup test on the blood cell counts.

Absolutely. The numbers on the red blood cell count were pretty off, not marginally and, you're right, they should be re-tested especially since the first test was done 9 months ago. The doctor never said a darn thing about them so I will discussing communication issues with him as well.


As for the tests you are recommending here, they are indeed good suggestions.  I would, however, also suggest that guys here really learn as much as possible ABOUT these tests before having them done.

Thank you. I would definitely suggest understanding these tests at least before the patient reviews them with the doctor, but yes, learning about them as soon as possible is the best strategy.


In the case of Testosterone, DHEA and Vitamin D, especially, most docs will tell you your numbers are "normal" even if they are way below optimal.  This is because the docs tend to go by the reference ranges the labs generate and many of those ranges are flawed.  "Normal" levels of Vitamin D, for example are an arbitrary number specified by the Institute of Medicine.  You should instead try to get yourself in a range specified by the top vitamin D endocrinologists.  They are the ones who understand what constitutes healthy levels of Vitamin D.  In the case of DHEA and Testosterone, you want to be in a "youthful range" not necessarily in an age adjusted range.  The docs expect that if you are 50, your T will be through the floor low and they will tell you that is "normal".  In fact if you T is in a healthy range, they will insist that it is too high.  So before you get the test, be sure you thoroughly understand what the results mean AND what constitutes LOW and what constitutes HIGH.  Also it is good to know what sorts of problems can cause either HIGH numbers or LOW numbers on specific tests.  The more you know, the better your outcomes will be.

Absolutely!! Couldn't agree with you more. Well said. Thank you.

Quote from: MattFoley on January 18, 2013, 05:12:49 PM
Absolutely. The numbers on the red blood cell count were pretty off, not marginally and, you're right, they should be re-tested especially since the first test was done 9 months ago. The doctor never said a darn thing about them so I will discussing communication issues with him as well.

NINE MONTHS AGO!  AND THE COUNT WAS SERIOUSLY LOW!  I don't think I'd be going back to talk to him.  I'd be looking for another doctor.  You are too forgiving!  - George

There's a lesson here guys.  ALWAYS request a copy of the RESULTS of ANY AND ALL blood tests your doctor sends you to the lab for AND take that copy home and study it well AND DON'T BE TOO SHY TO ASK QUESTIONS when appropriate.  - George

George, you're so right. I was foolish not to get those results in writing straight from the beginning. Lesson learned.

I think im starting to get some side effects of Pentox, like an slight headache at evenings. Nothing compared with penis pain though. It seems to be really helping with that!

Anyone have rapid heart rate on Pentox? My doctor took my off beta-blockers and I have slight rebound effect, heart rate being 90's when sitting. If rapid heart rate is a common side effect, I may have to wait a few weeks until the rebound effect wears off.

Matt, I show reading of white blood cell counts towards the bottom of standard range. Also I am slightly anemoc aince O am one point below minimum hemogoblin. Doea that mean I AM anemic?! Am I gonna die? How do I fox this?

John,  I use Hawthorn for my cardio issues.  One of its effects is to slow and stabilize the heartrate.  Unfortunately the good Hawthorn products are quite expensive.  But they work quite well in my experience.  They also lower BP.  Here are a couple of good Hawthorn products:

http://www.iherb.com/New-Chapter-Blood-Pressure-Take-Care-60-Veggie-Caps/23376 (http://www.iherb.com/New-Chapter-Blood-Pressure-Take-Care-60-Veggie-Caps/23376)

http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Cardio-Peak-with-Standardized-Hawthorn-and-Arjuna-120-Veggie-Caps/46275 (http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Cardio-Peak-with-Standardized-Hawthorn-and-Arjuna-120-Veggie-Caps/46275)

Be sure to read the Hawthorn warnings though before using either of these products and monitor your BP carefully until you are fully adjusted to them.

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-527-hawthorn.aspx?activeIngredientId=527&activeIngredientName=hawthorn&source=1 (http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-527-hawthorn.aspx?activeIngredientId=527&activeIngredientName=hawthorn&source=1)

I am currently taking the New Chapter product and really like it.  I am planning to take a break from it, shifting to the Life Extension product for a while.

- George

TooYoungForThis,

You should compare your results with info online and certainly talk to your doctor about it. Last March, I too showed results that indicated possible anemia. There's no way I can make the claim that anemia or low white blood cell count has any correlation to Peyronie's but I'm positive in my gut that the medical community is missing key clues, indicators, and solutions to this horrific disease.

So from a purely arrogant perspective, the reason God allowed me to be afflicted with this disorder is so I can find a cure and lead all mankind to a greater destiny. Or, something like that. :P

TooYoungForThis

What I know is low red blood cell count in anemia. White blood cells fighting diseases and not connected to anemia, but maybe I am wrong. Try to make a search by google, my Internet is too slow now to do that myself.

James

Matt,  there is certainly a link between Peyronie's and blood cell anomalies and that link is the immune system.  It can happen in two very different ways.  1) The same immune dysfunction that causes immune system destruction of tissues of the penis can also cause destruction of blood cells, both red and/or white.  2) the fact that white blood cells are attacking penile tissue can sequester them to the degree that white cell counts are lowered.  - George

Quote from: TooYoungForThis on January 20, 2013, 05:43:00 PM
Matt, I show reading of white blood cell counts towards the bottom of standard range.

I would not be concerned about this by itself.  Many people have counts near the bottom of the normal range.  That is why the normal range includes that count :)

Both my doctor and I have white cell counts that are on the low edge of normal.

Quote from: George999 on January 21, 2013, 11:54:52 AM
Matt,  there is certainly a link between Peyronie's and blood cell anomalies and that link is the immune system.  It can happen in two very different ways.  1) The same immune dysfunction that causes immune system destruction of tissues of the penis can also cause destruction of blood cells, both red and/or white.  2) the fact that white blood cells are attacking penile tissue can sequester them to the degree that white cell counts are lowered.  - George

Well, I guess that clears that up. Unbelievable.  >:(

Like I said, the clues are there yet too often, the doctors are clueless.

I'll address this with my neophyte doctor when I see him on 1/30.

Matt, Also bear in mind, of course, that Pentox and other drugs along with supplements can affect blood cell counts.  - George

Thanks George.

However, my blood tests were done before I started Pentox or any supplement so I think the low testosterone led to the lower blood count. I'm sure this has resolved itself but I will be insisting on a new blood panel to confirm when I see one of my doctors this week or next.

I have been on 1200 mg of Trental for six months and had side effects of anxiety, poor sleep depression and exhaustion, with headaches if I drink alcohol. At the beginning of this month, another examination showed a decrease in bend from 65 degrees south to 40 degrees, which was very heartening.

At the examination, the Dr recommended I increase Trental to 1600 mg/day and commence verapamil injections each two weeks. As I had to travel a round trip of 800 km, this is not practical, but I have increased Trental to 1600 mg/ day slow release since 9th January.  Since that time I have had very severe headaches, as well as back and joint pains. The headaches require Endone regularly to control and as that cannot continue, I have reduced my Trental back to 800 mg/day.  So far after three days, headaches have decreased but not gone.

My bend, however continues to improve, so in some ways I hope the aches are from some other source. They have been very severe at times, have been mostly in bed in dark room trying to: reduce headache and : increase energy. Both have improved since reducing amount of Trental.  I have had both Australian and Rivers Trental and cannot tell any difference. Headaches have been with Australian produced Trental while waiting Rivers supplies.

My headaches were much more severe than erection pain ever was. The Peyronies has also caused a urethra blockage at the bend that requires ongoing attention.

Are headaches a commom problem?  Sargonnas is the first I have seen to mention it.
Blacksammi

Has anybody had diarrhea from Pentox?

I have tried to take Pentox several times, side effects have always been too much after few days or week. This time I have managed to take it 2x 400mg / day for 2,5 weeks already, and it really seems to be helping with Peyronies.

Other side effects are in control now pretty much (except that I've been in weird flu/fever for a week now, which doesn't feel normal flu and doesn't go away..) but..

..Now I got diarrhea! It's been constant for a week now already, stool is watery.. I have limited my food intake very carefully and I cannot think any other reason for this than Pentox anymore.


Any ideas how to deal with this.. I already take Pentox in the middle of big meals.


How ironic is it that the only drug that has effect on this disease, has to have the most side effects I have ever got from any medicine... this is hardcore stuff. :S

It amazes me how our bodies react so differently to a particular medication. I'm on 2,400 mg/day of Pentox and I have no side effects. Of course, if my bend would go from +75% to 40%, I would tolerate vomiting, diarrhea, and anything else I had to deal with to get that benefit.

It almost seems as if the those who suffer side effects show improvement in Peyronies Disease, and those with no side effects get no improvement.  A cruel paradox.

If that's the case, I hope I start uncontrollably vomiting soon.  ;)

Quote from: funnyfarm on January 28, 2013, 03:04:12 PM
It almost seems as if the those who suffer side effects show improvement in Peyronies Disease, and those with no side effects get no improvement.  A cruel paradox.

That is true in many cases.. ironic. :D Just stopped Pentox today ( I haven't took any pill this day) and my stomach seems to be calming down a bit, it really went to pretty bad shape during last few days. It feels like Pentox is burning my bowels from the inside until it's all diarrhea... :S

Oh boy I have to find some solution to this.. I had pretty good improving with just 2,5 weeks of 800mg/day, and I really want to continue this. Perhaps I will try only 400mg (1 pill) a day once this settles out..

Phase, are you taking your Pentox with food? If not, you should take it on a full stomach to help prevent against stomach upset. When I first started, I took it on an upset stomach and it bothered my stomach. For whatever reason, my body got used to it and now I take it with my protein drink and coffee in the morning.

Yep, I took it with big meal in the middle of the meal always. It does not mess my stomach up instantly, but slowly I feel little upset in the stomach and seems that after week or two it escalated up to pretty bad..

I have to take few days off and see how it goes, I also have a flu going on at the moment and of course it can be the Coq10 as well - eventhough it would be weird because I have used that over 6 months with no stomach upset..

Don't quote me on this but I thought somebody here mentioned that you should suspend Pentox when you have a flu until it's passed. Also, for stomach issues, I take 150 mg of Zantac. That helped me when Pentox bothered my stomach.

I stopped taking it as a precaution because it "may" lower white blood cell count (immunity).   In a week or two I will get my blood tested to see if that is in fact the case with me.  I may have been over cautious but I wanted to make sure I could overcame my illness as quickly as possible.  I am better now and taking the pentox again.   1600mg and my main side effect is prostate soreness.   The anxiety, insomnia, and heavy urination seem to lessen quite a bit after a few days.   

I would be patient phase.  Take one pill and slowly up the dosage over a long period to minimize shock to your system.  That is how I originally did it. For some of us, like me and you, it is a powerful drug. 

Also, if you have the flu, your body is already dealing with a lot of nasty stuff beside low blood cell counts, so I would not be too surprised you are less tolerant at the moment. I did not know this until recently but the majority of out immunity is derived from the digestive system.

Quote from: MattFoley on January 28, 2013, 02:52:21 PM
It amazes me how our bodies react so differently to a particular medication. I'm on 2,400 mg/day of Pentox and I have no side effects. Of course, if my bend would go from +75% to 40%, I would tolerate vomiting, diarrhea, and anything else I had to deal with to get that benefit.

Thats a lot of Pentox, Matt. Its double the maximum reccomended dose.

2400mg a day is what Dr. Lue has been prescribing his patients. But proceed with caution if you haven't seen Dr. Lue. I am lucky in that I have no side effects.

Well if thats the case im interested in knowing if that huge dosage has any benefit over the standard 1200 mg, which its the one im taking. This stuff its ridiculously cheap with prescription and even without it.

Phase

I had sever side effects from Pentox and increased to 3*400mg just after almost one year of taking 400mg, after that 2*400mg.
My body get used to and have no problem now (if I am not taking the last one to late).

James

The increased dosage is meant to attack the plaques in a more aggressive manner, hopefully reducing and reversing any calcification, and eventually making them disappear. Obviously individuals will have varying results. Lue told me he had seen success in 90 out of 100 patients. This is not to suggest 90 patients were cured, only that improvements were seen -- some dramatically. Lue took me off almost every other supplement. I still take a multi vitamin, fish oil and echinacea, as well as cialis 5 mg (often split in half). But he wanted to allow the pentox to work on its own.

Also, he asked me to change up the VED treatment to 6 cycles at 5 minutes each for a total of 30 min. I know some have advised caution. I started with a med. cylinder, but the swelling was too much and I cut back to 5 cycles at 3 min each. However, once I switched to the smaller cylinder, and swelling decreased (less room in cylinder for blood to fill the skin surrounding the erection chamber) and felt comfortable going back up to 6 cycles at 4 min. each for a total of 24 minutes. I have a 85 degree upward bend.

I am a little over one month into the new treatment. I haven't seen any changes yet, but Dr. Lue said it can take anywhere between 3mos and 9 mos to see results from the higher dosage of pentox. I will update my progress after my 3 mos. followup in late March.

RH this 90% success rate Dr Lue has recorded with 2400 mg pentox is very impressive.   I am curious, does this mean patients have to take the pentox indefinitely to maintain the results or can they discontinue after 9mo ?  For those of us with side effects like myself this is an important distinction.

He didn't say either way. But he did prescribe me enough for nine months. I would imagine he would reevaluate at 9 mos. or say if it hasn't worked at that point then there is no reason to continue. But this is pure speculation on my part.

I will add that my Los Angeles urologist took me off of the 1200mg prescription after 5 months. There was concern on their part for the long term effects of pentox, being that it's a blood thinner. They also had concerns about L-Arginine and taking that for too long, but to be honest their reasoning escapes me. I started back up on the L-Arginine anyway about 3 or 4 months after stopping. I stopped again in December per Lue's instructions..

Thanks for the info Roy. Hope you get results in some months.

Roy - do you take 6 tablets a day at seperate times or 3 x 2 tablets?

2 pills 3x a day and always after a meal.

The only side effect I worry about is the anxiety. I'll be starting Pentox in a few days. I was just waiting for the rebound effect, of rapid heart rate, from stopping a beta-blocker to end. I've noticed some here say it gives bad anxiety. Would I know after taking the first pill if I'd experience anxiety as a side effect?

Maybe not the first pill, but within a few days probably. I wouldn't let that stop you from trying it. Just give it a shot, and if you do experience an onset of anxiety stop taking it. You will recover from the rise in anxiety just fine.

John

Start taking one 400mg ER Pentox a day in the morning for one or two weeks.
I think you will not have anxiety if you will start in this way.
Good luck

James

According to my Doc there is no problem stopping Pentox in any dosage immediately if required, or starting again on higher dosages immediately either.  As a test for headaches as a side effect recently I stopped 4x400/day for four days with no problems (and with no reductions in headaches either) so recommenced on full rate again immediately with no problems. Having ct scan next week to investigate headaches further. I know there are many other drugs that require gradual increase/decrease regime.My
My bend is continuing to improve- almost worth the headaches!

Blacksammi

I've been wanting to start this Pentox badly, but I stopped taking a beta-blocker (atenolol) exactly 2 weeks ago, and my heart rate is still high. It averages 105 beats a minute a lot of the day, when sitting.

Do you think it would be safe to take a single 400mg Pentox with the heart rate at around 100 beats a minute, and has anyone experienced rapid heart rate from Pentox?

I really want to start taking this stuff...

I didn't experience fast heartbeat but I did and still on occasion experience some anxiety. Not bad enough to get me to stop.

I highly recommend that you discuss the heart rate issue with your doctor.

Quote from: funnyfarm on January 15, 2013, 11:13:46 PM
Can you tell me how much Stabillium you are taking ?  I take it as directed on the package, but do not notice much if any effect.  thanks

I now take one capsule of Stabilium a day and that seems to be enough. That's one box a month, so around $13 a month. I should probably stop use for a few days to see what the effect is - maybe I could get by with less? I notice a definite benefit so will continue to take it. It has helped immeasurably.

A question about pentox:  I've been on it daily for about a year and a half now.  I don't seem to have side effects, though I wonder if it gives me anxiety.  Peyronie's has been stable for about a year as well--no new inflammation, no growth in plaques.  My uro seemed to think there is little chance of recurrence.  So now I'm wondering about ending the pentox and VED.  Any thoughts?  I don't really want to be on a drug for life, but I don't know when to stop it.  And since I asked my uro for it, he assumes I'll figure it out.  I'd love any guidance from people who have been on it for a couple years.

Is your plaque reduced/gone? Curvature degree? What else are you doing for treatment/diet/workout?

No, plaques are not gone.  Do anybody's plaques disappear after a 18 months of inflammation?  I kind of doubt it.  I've continued to take pentox in hopes that it will keep the plaques pliable for a long time and prevent calcification.  If Xiaflex becomes a realistic  solution, I'm interested.  But I'm interested in opinions about the benefits of long term use.  How many years are others of you staying on Pentox.  Are you just planning to stay on it for life?  or in case some other solution becomes practical.

Egghead,

Don't click on Quote when you reply.  Click on reply button at the top of the topic.  Forum rules restrict quoting entire posts especially when there is only one post before your post.  Makes no sense to  quote a whole post we just read moments before.

KAC; I plan on taking it for for life if I have to. But I'm hoping that once I fix my low T and get these plaques beat, I won't have to.

I've upped my dose to 4x400mg per day. Side effects include bouts of insomnia and anxiety for me. Benifits are painless sex and perceived reduction in curvature and thus, happiness..

I have discovered that taking pentox with a teaspoon of coconut oil prevents any stomach upset in my case.   I did not have bad stomach issues but would often take the first one or two on any empty stomach (I often skip breakfast in lieu of gym/yoga) which would cause moderate distress sometimes.   This approach prevents any issues and also unrefined virgin coconut oil is a very healthy fat. 

Just a possible tip for anyone having difficulty.

I found taking one pill of pentox instead of three does just as a good job. If your having really bad side effects just take one instead of three. Pentox and Cialis in combination work really good. Pentox makes your penis look more fuller expecially in the flaccid state.

Hey guys, I'm wondering if any of you guys taking pentox are getting this side effect.

It's like I do something, I'm not all there, and literally forget about a few minutes later.

For example I took some fish oil, then a few minutes later surfed the web, then was going to put in my excel spreadsheet that I had taken some fish oil, but couldn't remember if I actually had taken any.

My focus and short term memory has gotten bad.

Or I go into another room to do something, but I do something else I notice I need to do, then leave the room, and 10 minutes later I remember I didn't do the initial thing.

Another recent tangible example is this. I took a pot out of the oven with oven gloves, it had been in there for 2 hours, then I take one oven glove to lift the pot lid off and burn myself, it was so stupid I did that. The only reason I could think of is that pot doesn't usually go in the oven to cook stuff, but rather on an electric hob, and I often lift the lid off with my bare hands to check on what evers cooking (soup for example).

But it feels as if my focus/short term memory is being effected, and I'm not sure if this is the pentox or not, so I want other people's opinions. I recently increased my dosage btw to 1 in the morning, and 1 before bed, while before it was 1 before bed. But I not sure when this effect started since it's been a gradual thing, so it could have been happening on the lower dose.

By the way I'm 25. This is an example of the memory loss/focus thing. I was meant to write this in the original post and was thinking about it while typing my original post, but only now just remembered to add it after I had finished replying to a different thread.

Also another thought came into my head, could it be gotu kola causing this side effect?

Are you sleeping okay ? Pentox is noturious for reducing restorative sleep which could impair memory,  especially if you build up a sleep deficit.  Having said that, I had several side effects from pentox, but memory loss was not one of them.

I experience the "where did I put my keys two seconds ago" syndrome, but I feel like it occurred before Pentox. And it hasn't gotten worse and I take 6 pills a day. But it seems to affect everyone differently. I started experiencing possible heart arrhythmia at about 4.5 months in and am currently getting checked out. But if it's not life threatening I'm sticking with it. Because after 5 months, my girth has increased.

Muffslayer

How long time you are taking Pentox?
How long time you have this side effect of short term memory/focus loss?
If they come together, you may stop for a while and see what happening.

James

 Did you know sleep disorder breathing can cause memory loss or memory fatigue! If Pentox is keeping you awake, there can be a problem.
I take two 400mg in the AM and my 3rd in the afternoon before 5.... so I can sleep!
Oh yea sleep apnea can cause erectile dysfunction too! When we get into rem sleep, men can have 3-5 spontaneous erections. But if apnea is preventing you from getting into rem...then when you want it to work it will not!

Guys, does anyone have any info on Pentox interfering with healing from a viral infection?

I can't seem to make the infection go away and I'm wondering if Pentox may be causing me not to get over it.

Thoughts?

Matt,

I told my GP that I was taking Pentox and he told me that he knows a lot about it since before becoming a MD he was in medical research and had a grant to study Pentox. He told me that if I got an infection while on Pentox to come back and see him ASAP. He said that Pentox can interfere with the body's ability to fight infection.

Matt

From my experience, if I have flue and don't stop Pentox, the flue don't go away.
3 times already.

James

Damn!! Thanks guys. I have this infection and it won't stop so following your advice, I'm gonna stop taking the Pentox effective immediately until the infection is gone.

I appreciate the feedback.

You need to have your WBC count tested.  Mine dropped while on pentox, and I did have one bad case of the flu which I normally never get.

I find this very eye opening. I have been fighting a persistent gum infection that just won't quit. My dentist is at his wits end on it and is sending me for a biopsy because he cant get it to go away. Perhaps the Pentox is not helping me?

Norm

Try stopping Pentox for a few days, a week. It helps me, maybe will help you also.

James

I've never had any kind of infection like this.

It's been going on for over a week. I started getting chills and in minutes, I go into convulsions and can't keep my body still. Then, after 15-20 minutes of that, my body temp. starts rising along with the worst body aches I've ever had. It's an unholy nightmare.

I found this:

http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/trental/viral+infection (http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/trental/viral+infection)

So, as much as I hate not taking the Pentox, I'll hold off until this infection is over.

This is interesting. Now looking back, I got sick for a week or two right after starting Pentox I think. I can't remember if I modified my Pentox intake while I was sick (I don't remember if I suspected a connection). One way Pentox may lower your immune system is the interference it causes with sleep. If I don't get sleep, my immune system goes way down.

And Matt, aren't you on a lot of testosterone boosting supplements that quadrupled your testosterone levels? Testosterone also inhibits your immune system, so it could be that.

Matt, I would error on the safe side.  When I stopped for 2 weeks there was no hardening of the scar or any issues like that.  I think the improvement is cumulative, and if nothing else it will give your body a little less stress for a few weeks.

I agree, guys. I'm gonna hold back on Pentox until this infection is done.

And yeah, I'm on testosterone but there's no way I'm cutting back on that. Hopefully it'll be over soon.

Thanks again.

I'd temporarily increase your intake of Vitamins C & D, zinc, and magnesium to boost your immune system. I noticed I get sick a lot less ever since I got Peyronies and started taking a bunch of vitamins and supplements.

Matt, doing any better buddy, you did not sound too great last week ?

Thanks guys, I appreciate your thoughts and advice.

I was definitely in a bad place last week. Aside from the fevers, convulsions, and body pain, my liver and kidneys started to fail. My legs and lower abdomen started filling up with water. It looked like I was pregnant!! Scared the hell out of me. The doctor told me I was leaking protein and there was blood in my urine. They had no idea what I had and why it was happening.

After I got out of the emergency room, I went down to the vitamin store and bought a liver detox product and a kidney detox product. The next day, my legs and lower abdomen completely drained and went back to normal. The fever, chills, and body aches have stopped.

Now, I'm not gonna attribute the fevers and chills stopping to the detox products but the draining from my legs and abdomen was certainly due to the detox supplements.

So I've started taking the Pentox again.

Thank God this is over because it was some of the most horrific pain I've ever felt.

Again, I appreciate your thoughts, guys. God bless.

Glad to hear you are doing better and back on the "vitamin P"

Glad to hear you're doing better. What do you think caused the liver and kidney issues? You think it was something you were taking?

The liver and kidney issues were related to the viral infection. Plus, I wouldn't let my body rest by going to the gym and doing some grueling manual labor as well.

This morning I got a call from the doctor telling me that they overlooked a small detail: I have a urinary tract infection!! They checked my urine 2 weeks ago and now they tell me!! So the doctor prescribed Cipro, which you guys probably know is a strong antibiotic so the final remnants of this situation are getting handled as of today.

The interesting thing is that I'm not feeling anything from the UTI. No fever, no chills, no kidney or liver issues...nothing. So I'm guessing it's a low-grade infection.

Matt

Sometimes you can't feel an urinary track infection even is a high grade.
Don't assume:

QuoteSo I'm guessing it's a low-grade infection.

If it was, they was treating you with a less strong anti biotic.

James

Thanks James.

To add to my symptoms, 3 days ago I added restless leg syndrome to the growing list of symptoms. This is associated with a suffering kidney situation.

I have been taking Pentox for 15 days without side effects.  Today I saw few hives on my body that itch.  They are scattered (total of 5 locations) and nothing drastic.  Can this be a side effect?  Allergic Reaction? Should I be concerned?  Has anyone had this kind of reaction to Pentox?

Litani

I didn't had this side effect and didn't read about other that had but I am proposing you to stop taking Pentox for few days and see what happening.

James

Thanks James for the advice.  I stopped pentox for 4 days and the hives were gone. I restarted  it. It has been almost two weeks and no reaction. It must have been something unrelated.

Two weeks ago I had a doctors appointment. He increased pentox from 2 a day to 3. At the same time I switched CQ10 with ubiquinol.  I have been experiencing constipation for a week and a half. It is more like hard stool. Has anyone had the same issue with either product?

Yes, Pentox started constipating me when I went over 4 or 5 times a day. Take Metamucil. It will help.

When you take a Pentox with a meal, make sure you drink at least 12 ounces of water at the same time.  This may help solve your problem. 

dplookin

Yeah I'd drink lots of water. Your body should adjust to it in a week or so. I'm pretty sensitive to prescription drugs and I had no major issues with pentox.

I've a deep doubt.
Has anyone had problems of tendonitis after beginning of pentox's treatment?

Thanks very much.

dioporcolorisolvo, yeah, I do. Both elbows are tender and have not healed. Whether this is due solely to Pentox or a combination of factors, I don't know.

Anybody get headaches in the beginning of taking pentox???
im taking 800 mg per day, spacing out each dose by 4-7 hours.
Taking it right in the middle of my meal with CoQ10 and Vit E.

I talked to the pharmacist and they said keep taking it for a couple more days and your body may get used to it and the headaches will go away.
Really hope this is true and this happens. I need Pentox to combat this disease (5 months in since my injury and have one tiny plaque)

Dry mouth, upset stomach if taken without food, and constipation all side effects of pentox, and oh yeah on the higher doses, I had a light headache all the time.  Now the good news, this stuff really does work especially at the higher doses of two and three pills per day, but once your done with it you'll want to take a  good probiotic.

ComeBacKid

What you mean by:

Quoteyou'll want to take a  good probiotic

Can give an example?

James

ComeBackKid.............Constipation is a side effect of Pentox for a lot of people.  If you are in your 30's, you have a 50% chance of becoming constipated.  If your in your 60's, you have a 72% chance of becoming constipated.  That's why I quit using it.  I found these statistics somewhere on the Internet.  Don't remember where.  The older you get, the better chances of this side effect.  I found that Nothing would eliminate this side effect.

Just FYI

I drink Citrucel every morning and evening.  It helps me to continue Pentox.

I took pentox in my early 30's and constipation was never the problem. The opposite was more likely to be true.

-Skjald

My answer is similar to Skjaldborg answer. In my case the opposite was clearly true.

James

Hello everyone!

I started taking Pentox today -  I couldn't wait to see a new doctor, so I stared by myself.

Here they sell Pentox 600 mg/pill.

I decided to begin with one pill/morning as per James 1947 for 1-2 weeks, and then start taking 2/day.
I took the pill 4 hours ago, at breakfast. Not sure whether it's the pill, or the fact that I read a lot of things about side effects, but after I took it I started feeling a little dizzy, slow thinking/reaction. But in comparison with what other ppl describe, this side effect isn't that bad. Also a bit of a stomach high acid.

Anyone else experienced this?

Also how about smoking and drinking while on Pentox, as well as gym(bodibuilding exercises)?
I am social smoker (maximum 10 cigarettes/week), also I sometimes drink 1-2 times/week I can have 3-4 glasses of wine.
Thanks!

There are, unfortunately, numerous side effects associated with Pentox. Personally, I found Pentox and alcohol not to be a good idea, it made me very sleepy and tired. Also, make sure you take it with food, Pentox on an empty stomach is not a good idea.

As I don't smoke, I can't comment on that.

Sounds like everyone is different on the side effects. I have not had any side effects at all. Also not sure it is doing anything at all. I have not noticed any difference and I guess I hope that it will prevent things from getting worse.

Leitmotiv
Good luck with the Pentox.

Talons
Pentox may help to arrest the disease. Regarding differences, you should have a blood test before starting Pentox and after 3 months lets say. What is the quantity you are taking?

James

I was dizzy the first week when I started Pentox.  Driving was not a great idea--I was pretty lightheaded a few times.  After the first week, I was fine.  I've not noticed any other side effects other than general anxiety that may or may not be related.  I always take it with food. Haven't noticed any difference with alcohol.
KAC

James what blood test are you reffering to? What should we measure?

Blood pressure, Platelets, white blood cells, red blood cells.

James

Leitmotiv;

I think what James is trying to get across is that Pentox can weaken your immune system. Therefore, a periodical blood test will determine if that has happened in your case.

You are right Jonbinspain :)
I was hoping it will happen to me, I mean to lower my blood counts as my "normal platelets" are 1,000,000 and the "normal" white blood cells on 20,000+, but it not happened. Still after 18 months I was getting severe flue every month. Stopped Pentox, Flue stopped :)

James

Today I decided to double it and I took 1200 mg instead of 600.
No dizziness, no stomach pain or anything, just for a few seconds I had (which is strange)my heart beating very fast.
If I don't get side effects at the beginning this means they cannot appear later, or they usually appear later?

James, after 18 months of use, how did your plaque/curvature improved?
Thanks

Leitmotiv

Good luck with the 1,200 mg. :)
Good chance (but nor sure) if you don't have side effects now, you will not have in the future, except again the immune system weakening that can occur.
I can say that after more than 2 years on VED, Cialis and 18 months Pentox, the calcified plaques were softened an the 3 hourglasses disappeared. Little better erections, the left bent less, up curve same. Gained back some lost length and girth.

James

After 8 days on 1200 mg Pentox I can say that I have no side effect. Not even my stomach, because I take the pills with food, as per your advice.

I take the pills like this : 1 at breakfast at about 9 in the morning, the second one at lunch (14:00-14:30).
This is because my pills are 600 mg (this is what they sell in Romania). Do I take the pills too close one from another?

Also, I was thinking to raise the dose up to 1800 mg (3 pills a day). Will this have a stronger healing effect?

Some forum members got prescription for 2400 mg per day from leading Peyronies specialists because they think higher dosage have stronger healing effect.
You may increase the intake to 1800 if you wish and see what happening from the side effects point of view.
Keep in mind that Pentox, VED, low dose Cialis and basically all the oral and mechanical treatments are a marathon and not sprint.
I also thing that you may eat your breakfast earlier, same your lunch and have dinner at 6 PM. If you don't have any side effects, maybe 7 or 8. For me, latter than 6 makes problems.

James

Question:   Over what period of time is Pentox usually taken?   Months?   Years?    I'm only on my third week of Pentox and have been experiencing a lot of tiredness with no change in my daily activities -- excepting I really have to push to get anything done.    By mid-morning I feel like I could go back to bed already.    Also, I'm experiencing depression.     I'm willing to put up with both the tiredness and depression if the Pentox improves the Peyronie's condition.   Just wondering how long some of you guys have been taking it.  I won't see the urologist for another two months. --artguy1   

I was on it for 6 months. Didn't have any side effects, but also no improvement so my doctor took me off it as we proceeded with surgery as a course of action.

My experience with pentox overall has been positive. I started pentox about 3 to 4 weeks ago and in the first 3 days of taking it I had many side effects. I found my appetite to be gone and when I would force my self to eat I would get nauseous. I also noticed that it felt like I had something small stuck in the back of my throat when I swallowed. Almost like the pill got stuck in my throat. I found out that I was allergic to pentox and that it was swelling up my throat. I now take benadryl 3x a day 25 mg with my pentox.

I only take 1 at a time as 2 is bit much and it feels like I am being put to sleep. Benadryl solved my allergic reaction but then I started to get constipated. I also at times now have heartburn from time to time which has never happend till I was on pentox. I have trouble sleeping as pentox has given me insomnia. When I do sleep I do get very vivid and real dreams now which is kind of cool. I never used to get many dreams until pentox.

The worst part of my side effects is I felt my arms and legs get very tingly. It kind of felt like they were asleep and they felt achy and weak. I found that massaging and vibration helped with this. I bought a back massager online and I used that for a while. The tingles have gone away for the most part. I had that for about a week. You should never take pentox without a meal. I have very reduced side effects (if any) if I eat half my meal and then take pentox. Then I finish my meal and the only side effects I have now are constipation, heartburn (sometimes), and insomnia. Pentox has caused me to go through hell for the first 2 weeks but then my body got used to it. With in the first week pentox has taken away most of my flaccid and erect pain along with almost no inflammation.

In my opinion pentox has been worth it. The things we do for a healthy penis. Oh and I also got enlarged veins in my feet that hurt to move my feet or to put pressure on them. That comes around every now and then but went away for the most part.

Is there anybody else around here who seem to be super-sensitive to Pentox? I've tried it on few occasions in the past to treat Peyronies Disease, but every time I have quit after a week or two as the side effects just get too damn strong.

What's most weird, is how low dosage is enough to causes this.

I've always started with 1/2 pill, meaning 200mg /day. Single dose. In few days this makes me feel warm and penis feels fuller while flaccid, soon after erections feel stronger too, like a mild Cialis effect. After a week or so, I start to feel HOT all the time, I sweat like a pig even walking outside when it's cold rainy day, or just sitting in a bus.  The worst of all is the flushing, I get red all over like a crab.

I've tried 1 pill / 400mg a day, but with this dose these side effects get just simply unbearable and also after a week or two my stomach usually gets broken, and I get nausea, diarrhea, heartburn and all the other great stuff. On top of that, I get very vivid and scary dreams all night long and I feel nervous.

Now I've always wondered, would it be worth it to try just stick with the 200mg a day or even lower than that - is there any point? Does it mean if I'm sensitive to sides, I could also be sensitive to the drug it self and therefore the low dose would do it's job?  More receptors for this drug on my body or something like that perhaps..?

You guys who have experienced similar side effects, do these get easier by time if I'd just try it with low low dose for a longer time, or does it get just worse with pentox?

GuitarHero

It is written very clear on the Pentox pack, do not broke or chew the pill so taking half pill is wrong.
Also are you sure you got the slow release? The regular ones, may have the symptoms you are describing, I had them as my first one month supply was not the slow release.
Take on 400 mg in the morning always with meal. I done it for two weeks until my body got used to it.

James

Hi james,

I think where I live in the drug might be different, as this one has a line in the middle to split it in half and they also say in the package that it's allowed.

However about the slow release thing.. I'm actually not sure, but this says "depot capsule" so I suppose that means slow release..?

Side effects in my case last all day long anyway, so not sure if it's a matter of release time. Even a day or two after my last pentox pill I will still sweat like crazy and have a red skin.

Did your side effects fade off when you continued for some time, james? What kind of sides you had in the beginning?

I understand.
Regarding side effects, they never faded away completely, but they were very low intensity.

James

Hey GuitarHero,

I had very bad side effects as well and it did get better after the first week. I ALWAYS eat a full meal with every dose I take. I still get heartburn and very vivid dreams along with insomnia from time to time. I feel that it has helped me though. I don't think that low of a dosage will help much at all in my opinion. It's a good Idea to start off with one a day and work your way up to three. I probably should of done that as I took three right away and totally nuked my body.

Has your skin cleared up after not taking it? If it is the pentox then you most likely are allergic to it like me. With me it swelled up my throat so I take one benadryl with each pentox pill. Most of your side effects should go away after the first week or 2. Once again eating a full meal with pentox helps a lot.

Eat half your meal, then take the pill, and then continue eating your meal. I was lucky in the fact that I was not working at the time. So I was able to stay home while my body adjusted to pentox. I made a post a little ways up if you want more information on how it affected me. I used to get really red and rashy on my face, as well as get all itchy and hot. But that was before I took pentox. Did this just start to happen to you when you were taking pentox? It sounds like an allergic reaction to me but I'm not a doctor. If you decide to try benadryl with it then be warned as it can make you drowsy. So it could be unsafe to drive while using it. For me two benadryl will make me severely tired but one won't effect my energy.

Hi wonderbread,

no this is not actually anything to do with allergy, by red skin I mean flushing. I'm constantly red and if I do anything that makes the heartbeat rise, I will be super red. I think it has to be something to do with the blood viscosity thing that this drug is made for, or something else. They do mention flushing as a common side effect in Pentox instructions after all - but it sucks still and big time.

I have now struggled with 1 pill a day but I'm feeling like in a steam room all the time, even when others are feeling cold.  ::)

Hello GuitarHero,

Sorry to hear you're having an awful time getting used to the drug. I would give it 2 weeks and see if the side effects get better. If it gets better in 2 weeks then you should try two pills and give it another two weeks. Then on to 3 if your feeling alright. Pentox works really well with cialis 5mg too. It seems to help soften the plaque for some people on here.

Thanks for the support, I'll try to do just that. And if I can't tolerate 2 at least I'm trying to stick with 1 pill a day as long as I can.

I agree, Pentox really seems to be doing something, not yet actually sure what. Cialis and I don't get well so well, it gives better erections for a moment (few days) and after that, it starts to give me harder flaccid and somehow narrower / stiffer (in a bad way, like it would be less elastic) feeling to the penis on both while erected and flaccid, if I take it for longer time. I have never figured why is this, but until I know better I'm trying to avoid it and keep strong erections with other supplements.

10 or 20 mg Cialis makes me flushing, sweat like take a shower, low back pain and no any erection benefits.
The 2.5 or 5 mg, after some 2 weeks of taking it every night have no any side effects anymore.

James

Hey Guitarhero,

I have not tried cialis 5mg yet, although I plan to shortly. So I can't speak in experience with the drug as I have never taken it. I'm just going off of what I have read from other members that have had positive results with the pentox/cialis combo.

I would again try what James has suggested in that you try it for 2 weeks as he is very experienced with this condition and that particular drug. In the end though it is your penis and if you feel it is doing more harm than good then you should listen to your body. As all our bodies can react to medications differently. That being said, if I were you then I would give cialis 2 weeks to see if it improves your condition.

Hello all,

So originally Pentox seemed wonderful. I didn't notice any negative side effects at first. It actually made me feel quite good. However in the last 7 days a lot of negatives have arisen and they are not typical. It started out with minor irritability that progressed to rage. Ransoms rage and sporadic. Then I seem to have developed some pretty extreme muscle spasticity in my back and rib area. I have nightmares now and wake up sweating. Today I took a nap and woke up feeling suicidal. I had suicidal feelings in the past and am in no way going to be a harm to myself because i understand this is just chemical but still it is absolute doom and despair. It semi faded after an hour.

My dose is 400x3
Today I've been halfing them.

I'm so worried if I stop I'll see rapid progression of my Peyronie's as I've read in some posts. I only developed this a few weeks ago and it's been a nightmare as I'm sure you all know. Any advice would be welcome--although it seems my choice is chance more deformity or chance these emotions and regression into semi permanent depression like I was last year.

Cheers,
Will

Will, I have never taken Pentox, although I may give it a try as I believe it helps with PAD (Peripheral Artery Disease) which I may suffer from. I have 'stable' peyronie's but don't think Pentox   :-\ will help alleviate my penis curve, manual stretching with warm up is helping with that  :)

Do you take Pentox with food? Food intake shortly before dosing delays absorption of an immediate-release dosage form but does not affect total absorption rate in the body.

Please don't quote if it is not necessary, moderator

Most pentox is SR or sustained release and you might be getting a sudden excessive release of active ingredient when you break the SR shell and expose the inner tablet to the stomach acid. Instead of halving them I would drop the dose to one in the morning and one at night and see if that helps.  Once symptoms have stabilized then try adding the third tablet back in, but you may only be able to tolerate two tabs if sensitive or do not weigh much.

Thank you for the speedy reply!

You know, I assumed that my issues must have been the Pentox because I thought it was the only new pill I had been taking and it took a day to realize I've never taken acetyl L-carnitive. A little research later and I learned that stuff can really bump up ones acetycholine levels. I already have a very choline dominated brain and anything that raises those levels doesn't sit well. The increases acetylcholine levels accounts for the muscle issues and when combined with increased  norepinephrine the anger makes sense. Since stopping alcar the spasticity has started to resolve and the anger is getting better. Think my brain just needs time to flush the remaining acetylcholine out.

Symptoms currently:
Mild periodic anger/agitation
Mild depression
Can't sleep more than 6 hours (this I suspect is more in line with Pentox)
Physical malaise. Don't feel like moving much.


I will report back on what changes and if things return to how it was when I first started taking Pentox--which is almost no noticeable side effects.

On a positive note I'm sleeping better. Sometimes I'll wake up 3-4 times in a night with the munchies for some reason. Pentox has really helped bring that number down to 1 and sometimes I don't wake up at all. Interesting!

Cheers,
Will

Well I'm back. Been taking the Pentox for about a month and a half now and I have to say I hate the stuff. I've noticed it makes me extremely socially anxious and depressed. It's really screwing with my life. its like I can't relax at all when I'm on it. Really want to stop but worried about the downstairs state. Would hate to have regression. Finding myself taking benzos daily to cope with the side effects. Although they have limited efficacy since Pentox competitively antagonizes benzo receptors.

Any advice? If I were to taper off  how would I do that?

Symptoms:
Anxiety
Loneliness
Isolation
Lack of appetite
Racing heart

Meds
Pentox 400 mg x 3
L arginine 2000mg every other day
Lorazepam 1 mg daily spread out into 2-3 doses
Gabapentin 600mg two doses; one at bed and one 5 hours after sleep

Hi onemorestep, I am probably going to get shot down here but what the heck!
Have you considered Ginkgo biloba, from what I know, please correct me if I am wrong but Pentox is primarily a blood thinner.

What you are trying to do with Pentox is maximise blood flow to your penis, but to a lesser extent that's what another supplement L-Citrulline Malate does, it lowers blood pressure, L-citrulline is also used to alleviate erectile dysfunction caused by high blood pressure.

If you hate Pentox then suggest you get off it IMHO, unless you know you have claudication  :)

Onemorestep

First Pentox is not a blood thinner in the usual way as aspirin and many others.
Pentox makes the red blood cells flexible so they can penetrate the thinness blood vessels and to provide oxygen to the area.
No any medication/supplement makes that so other blood thinners (including alcoholic beverages :) ) are not a replacement.

I had the same side effects as you are experiencing while started on Pentox. I stopped after 18 months because it affected my immune system.
My proposal to you based on my own experience and many others:
1. Start with one per day (400 mg) until your body get's used to, then increase to 2 and later to 3.
2. Take always with meal.
3. No later than let's say 6 PM (or better 4 hours before you go to the bad).

I tried almost everything proposed on this forum except surgery, Verapamil and Xiaflex, the only treatment that helped me:
Pentox, VED, low dose Cialis.
But it is your body so you may chose what you think it is right for you :)

James

Honestly I had zero side effects as long as I took it immediately after a meal. Otherwise, really bad nausea on an empty stomach.

Thank you guys so much for your speedy responses. It's lovely how active this forum is.

I moved the Pentox down to two about ten days ago and just moved it down to one pill a day.

Based on the level of anxiety I was having (extremely high; panic), reluctance to be social, and agoraphobia I was developing I felt I had little choice. It's odd I had no side effects when I first started the drug but they steadily got worse and worse. It was getting hard to explain this to friends.

Another one that's been getting worse is really tight muscles in my back and ribs. This is something that I had chronically for years before treatment with baclofen cleared it up. Since going down to one (this is day two of that) it's gotten better but is still present.

Unfornutately my penis is indeed less full at flaccid. And it feels kinda cold which is a symptom I had before starting Pentox. Hopefully I won't have some sort of crazy rebound with titrating down.

I have tried ginkgo in the past and found it to be enjoyable. I've just been too scared to put anything into my body since I don't know what caused the peyronies since I was taking ginkgo at the time. This disorder is such a crapshoot. Wish it was better understood.

Hope you all are well!

Onemorestep,

I recently went through an identical experience.

It greatly helped me to add in 2grams per day of Acetyl L Carnitine when I went down to one Pentox. I was on pentox for four months with strong side effects and being on one is like re-entering the real world for me.  I recommend this. I also supplement coq10 and l arganine.

onemorestep, I am currently combining ALC and GPLC as a possible alternative to Pentox use, I will post when I know for sure it is assisting with Blood flow, it should do as Pentox is prescribed for claudication, ALC and GPLC should work as GPLC is shown to help also with claudication  :)

Thank you all for the suggestions! Unfortunately I can't take acetyl l carnitine. For some reason it causes my muscles to seize up all along my spine and ribs and sometimes intestines. Along with that symptom I get rage, jealousy, anxiety, and a strange urge to drink alcohol or be sedated on other drugs. I only took it for a week before I had to stop because of those symptoms. 2g a day alcar. Kinda afraid to take any carnitine like drugs because of that. Alcar has some pretty intense effects on the brain. Just google "acetyl l carnitine and high affinity choline uptake" and some interesting articles come up like this one https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8095700/



Unfortunately these symptoms are starting to pop up on the Pentox. I imagine the gaba antagonism that goes along with Pentox in the PFC is having some kind of downstream effect on acetylcholine or there is an undiscovered mechanism of action. I have very bizarre brain chemistry. I've been diagnosed with fibro, chronic fatigue syndrome, and HPPD. These all make my responses to drugs bizarre or idiosyncratic. I hope to get off this last 400mg of Pentox soon because it is significantly affecting my sanity. So far I have seen no change downstairs coming off of it other than the tip feeling a bit colder.

As a word of warning, if you are a person who has a choline dominant brain with possible issues like low serotonin resulting from that watch out adding a drug like Pentox into the mix. High acetylcholine combined with low serotonin and high NE can cause a lot of nasty side effects. Even without the low serotonin high NE and acetylcholine will cause depression.

Perhaps I'll adjust to the one a day and be able to move up again. We shall see.

Once again thank you all for your words of wisdom and ideas!

Onemorestep

Again, I can just talk from my own experience.
I never used ALC because I was scarred by the possible side effects.
While on Pentox, I used also low dose Cialis and 100 mg coated aspirin (VED also but is not a medication)
I am a conservative man and don't want to take chances with what remain from my health.
I tried many supplements, medications and vitamins, but always just one at a time, I mean never more than one additional on the above treatment.
Bottom line, in my opinion maybe you should cut all and start to build your treatment from zero, except medications that are must for you according to your doctors. (in my case the 100 mg aspirin that I must take as blood thinner after a hearth attack 21 years ago)
But it is your health, and you should do what you think is best for you.
Good luck with the decisions :)

James

I started taking pentox three  days ago, and now i find myself being constantly sleepy and, while at first i just felt warm, i became dizzy and feel very weakened and nervous and more sensitive to coldness. Will the side effects stop, and should i continue, ir it would be advisable to stop after this. Also, i get somewhat fuller flaccid, but my plaques are calcified allready, does it even make sense to use it? Does anyone know if using minidoxill (stuff for male pattern baldness) and pentox at the same time is inadvisable?

Watch your blood pressure, dizzy is a red flag for it dropping too much!
Get a cheapish digital blood pressure monitor and start recording your BP regularly. I could be way off here but I thought Pentox was taken more for pain management, to date I haven't seen a member post it did anything to reduce a peyronie's curve?
Pentox I believe is for mainly treating PAD (peripheral Artery Disease). I believe it must be taken with food always.

If that's wrong then please post positives freely.

As you know, I take insane amounts of pentox daily. I get dizziness and blurred vision whenever I go for a brisk walk that involves steep hills to climb. Unfortunately the BP arm cuff is a bit too big to carry around at all times, but I should definitely have it in a backpack next time I go. My BP has always been 120 over 90 or 120 over 80. Under my current regimen, I've been getting readings of 90 over 60 when at home and resting, which are still not an issue, but lower than that it can get really dangerous, to the point of brain damage I believe.

Peyton, why not cut back on the dose if bp is so low?  With meds there's often a therapeutic range where going over gas no added therapeutic benefit-just more risks.

I can't find it anymore but a long time ago I had found some paper that said that the dosage at which pentox is prescribed to humans is several times below what would be needed for an effective antifibrotic effect. That's probably why it only works and fully dissolves all scarring if and only if started soon after the injury, like in the first 2-3 months.

Does it make any sense to take it after 6 years

And where did you find it is only effective very early on?

One more thing, do you guys think i can take minoxidil with pentox?

Minoxidil can cause permanent ED, def google it

Thats finestride! Mindoxil is just a foam, but it lowers blood pressure, so i don't know wanted to see if anyone has any expiriences. And for fin, it's very rarely. I personally will need implant anyways so at least i don't need to worry about that

Thanks for the clarification!

Quote from: Tsanchez12369 on February 11, 2018, 05:34:29 PM
And where did you find it is only effective very early on?

That's not what I meant. Dr. Lue told me that the only chance of fully healing is if pentox is started right away, no longer than 2-3 months after the injury. Otherwise it's still gonna be beneficial, but will most likely not fix everything 100%.

I feel much more tired when taking pentox, guys will it go away with time? I'm only on one pill, and should be taking 3 and i feel much weaker and weak willed and anxious this way. I didn't take it for two days and felt like a god lol. Should i continue or is there anything that has similar effect like pentox without these side effects

I haven't taken Pentox but I think it will knock your immunity system, something like alpha lipoic acid might help increase energy to making up for that  :-\

HRvat, interesting. I feel extremely energetic on pentox. It may just be the anxiety I've been experiencing though

I feel zero side effects on pentox. I can take 4 a day without feeling anything.

Mine is from a US pharmacy doctor-prescribed.

I hear if you can't tolerate pentox, coQ10 is the next similar acting option.