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Welcome to J Francois Eid, MD - Directly answering member questions in the "Medical Professionals" section below the Treatment boards.
https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,17819.0.html

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George999

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Re: Curcumin and inflammation ...
« Reply #50 on: December 17, 2009, 10:21:39 AM »

I had the same kind of problems that Fred is having for years before the Peyronie's started.  I was on antibiotics for much of that time until I could no longer tolerate them.  Often the urinary tract problems were associated with bowel problems, IBS, etc. and/or physical exertion.  Then I turned to cranberry extract, d-mannose, vitamin C, etc. to control the problem.  I too am convinced that all of this is related.  Most of the time I had the UTI symptoms, there was no evidence in my lab tests of any UTI.   At this point, finally, with Vitamin D management, Low Dose Naltrexone and now Vitamin B5 repletion I am finally off of the cranberry and finally the UTI symptoms are abating.  I also recently had extensive in depth urine testing done while having UTI symptoms and there was no evidence of infection, but much evidence of acute and chronic non-infectious inflammation.  Just like what goes on in the TA.  I really don't think that Fred and I are alone.  I think a lot of guys have this syndrome going on and the doctors are simply clueless as to how to deal with it.  With those in depth urine tests, I now know that I am not crazy and indeed there is something weird going on in my urinary tract.  And there is a bacterial infection going on, it is happening at such a low level that it is not detectable with the standard testing and urine culture approaches.  Such an infection in and of itself would represent some sort of immune system dysfunction which leads right back to the same ball of wax.  Immune dysfunction, chronic inflammation, they are all the same thing.   - George
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Fred22

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Re: Curcumin and inflammation
« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2009, 11:03:26 AM »

George,

Did the cranberry help?  Are you talking about juice or the softgel extract?  When this started a few years ago I took the cranberry extract (softgels) for quite a while with no success.  This was before the Peyronie's was diagnosed (before curvature).  This morning I got the burning sensation when I got up and while I was sitting on the sofa.  Now sitting upright in an office chair at the computer the pain is less.  At night when I lie down in bed it often goes away completely, so my position definitely has some effect on whatever's going on and ibuprofen is not helping much.  Maybe I should increase dosage but there are dire warnings about taking the max dosage if over 60.  I'm 65 and do have some GI issues (heartburn, indigestion, etc.) and chronic constipation due to (I believe) the 10 mg. diazepam and 30 mg. mirtazapine (Remeron).  I have to be very careful when having a BM because if I strain too much it really causes a flareup, especially if I squeeze out some urine in the process...so there is definitely some irritation involving the urethra which doesn't sound like the "typical" Peyronie's symptoms (if indeed any case is "typical").  A sudden stressful event can also cause a flareup of pain.  Woodman also has pain patterns and symptoms similar to what George and I are experiencing.  I'm wondering if any others are also exhibiting similar symptoms??   
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UK

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Re: Curcumin
« Reply #52 on: December 17, 2009, 11:48:57 AM »

sounds like CPPS Chronic Pelvic Pain Syndrome - if you have everything else checked out - no bacteria, no damage etc..
Its thought it is neuro-muscular, you are subconsciously and conscioulsly carrying tension in your pelvic floor muscles causing your symptoms. It builds over years. As for a fix, there isn't an easy one, trigger point release on these muscles could alleviate symptoms, reduction in stress, yoga to stretch and meditation to relax etc..
You did it to yourself by being the way you are programmed, now you need to unprogramme yourself.
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Fred22

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Re: Curcumin
« Reply #53 on: December 17, 2009, 01:18:25 PM »

sounds like CPPS Chronic Pelvic Pain Syndrome - if you have everything else checked out - no bacteria, no damage etc..
Its thought it is neuro-muscular, you are subconsciously and conscioulsly carrying tension in your pelvic floor muscles causing your symptoms. It builds over years. As for a fix, there isn't an easy one, trigger point release on these muscles could alleviate symptoms, reduction in stress, yoga to stretch and meditation to relax etc..
You did it to yourself by being the way you are programmed, now you need to unprogramme yourself.


Researchers at Stanford (I believe) have done a study of this and published a book called
"A Headache in The Pelvis". Their theory is that many men tense in the pelvic area due to stress without realizing it. I've been meaning to get this and try the exercises as I think I may have some of this going on.  I mean, I know the pain is "caused" by Peyronie's which leads to stress>pelvic tension>more pain>more stress.  They have the book in my local library and I'm going to check it out.  Thanks for the reminder.  I'm sure the exercises couldn't hurt.  I've done yoga off and on for many years, but stopped because some of the positions seemed to make the Peyronie's pain worse.  Do the symptoms of CPPS exhibit as penile burning, hurting after urination though is my question?
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UK

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Re: Curcumin
« Reply #54 on: December 17, 2009, 01:28:52 PM »

CPPS Symptoms - I've got a 3 day session in January with a miofascial release therapist specialising in CPPS and if it helps, I'll know its muscular. When I am on holiday symptoms are much less, so stress is a factor.

Urinary frequency (need to urinate often, usually more than once every two hours)
  Urinary urgency (hard to hold urination once urge occurs)
  Sitting triggers or exacerbates discomfort/pain/symptoms 
  Pain or discomfort during or after ejaculation
  Discomfort/aching/pain in the rectum (feels like a “golf ball” in the rectum)
  Discomfort/pain in the penis (commonly at the tip or shaft)
  Ache/pain/sensitivity of testicles
  Suprapubic pain (pain above the pubic bone)
  Perineal pain (pain between the scrotum and anus)
  Coccygeal pain (pain in and around the tailbone)
  Low back pain (on one side or both)
  Groin pain (on one side or both)
  Dysuria (pain or burning during urination)
  Nocturia (frequent urination at night)
  Reduced urinary stream
  Sense of incomplete urinating
  Hesitancy before or during urination
  Reduced libido (reduced interest in sex)
  Anxiety about having sex
  Discomfort or relief after a bowel movement
  Anxiety and catastrophic thinking
  Depression
  Social withdrawal and impairment of intimate relations
  Impairment of self-esteem
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Fred22

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Re: CPPS
« Reply #55 on: December 17, 2009, 03:58:33 PM »

 1.  Urinary frequency (need to urinate often, usually more than once every two hours)  YES
 2.  Urinary urgency (hard to hold urination once urge occurs) NO
 3.  Sitting triggers or exacerbates discomfort/pain/symptoms  YES
 4.  Pain or discomfort during or after ejaculation YES
 5.  Discomfort/aching/pain in the rectum (feels like a “golf ball” in the rectum) SOMETIMES
 6.  Discomfort/pain in the penis (commonly at the tip or shaft) YES!!
 7.  Ache/pain/sensitivity of testicles NO
 8.  Suprapubic pain (pain above the pubic bone) NO
 9.  Perineal pain (pain between the scrotum and anus) NO
10. Coccygeal pain (pain in and around the tailbone) SOMETIMES (But I think this is from sitting)
11. Low back pain (on one side or both) NO
12. Groin pain (on one side or both) NO
13. Dysuria (pain or burning during urination) YES
14. Nocturia (frequent urination at night) YES
15. Reduced urinary stream SOMETIMES
16. Sense of incomplete urinating SOMETIMES
17. Hesitancy before or during urination YES (USUALLY)
18. Reduced libido (reduced interest in sex) YES
19. Anxiety about having sex YES
20. Discomfort or relief after a bowel movement YES
21. Anxiety and catastrophic thinking YES!
22. Depression YES!
23. Social withdrawal and impairment of intimate relations YES!
24. Impairment of self-esteem YES!

So I responded either YES or SOMETIMES to 18 out of 24 of the symptoms.  I would say It's fairly likely that I have at least some of this pelvic stress thing going on, possibly along with the inflammation. I also have paruresis (shy bladder) which was not a big problem before the Peyronie's.  I could usually just go to the stall and pee in most any restroom.  Now it's up for grabs where I'll be able to pee which really exacerbates numbers 21-24. BTW, we've wandered quite far afield from the original thread (Curcumin).  Maybe this thread should be moved?  UK- Please keep us posted on your condition.  I'd be glad to communicate by PM if you wish.

Fred  

 
 
 
 
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skunkworks

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Re: Curcumin
« Reply #56 on: December 17, 2009, 05:55:23 PM »

I think this pelvic stress thing warrants its own thread, plus it should not really be in the circumin thread anway. Do mods have the capability of splitting threads?
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Fred22

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Re: CPPS
« Reply #57 on: December 17, 2009, 07:52:02 PM »

I think this pelvic stress thing warrants its own thread, plus it should not really be in the curcumin thread anway. Do mods have the capability of splitting threads?

I agree.  I think there should be a CPPS thread.

Fred
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George999

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Re: CPPS ...
« Reply #58 on: December 18, 2009, 10:50:48 AM »

I have started a new thread in the off topic area on this.  - George
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newguy

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Re: Curcumin
« Reply #59 on: October 14, 2010, 02:47:29 PM »

S&S - Do you still feel that Curcumin has a place in the treatment of peyronie's disease? How about resveratrol (also listed here). It seems that over time more and more positive findings in conenction to both or them. It would be hard to know whether or not that applied to peyronies too, as I doubt many people try these strategies.
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slowandsteady

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Re: Curcumin
« Reply #60 on: October 15, 2010, 10:03:49 AM »

I would say yes, just because IMO it's a good supplement for anyone to take for cancer prevention. It was most helpful to me in the earlier stages of the disease when I had pain. I still take it for general health.
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newguy

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Re: Curcumin
« Reply #61 on: October 15, 2010, 10:38:13 AM »

I would say yes, just because IMO it's a good supplement for anyone to take for cancer prevention. It was most helpful to me in the earlier stages of the disease when I had pain. I still take it for general health.

I still have a few bottle of it. For whatever reason, it never really worked its way into my regimen in a big way. I'm thinking of having a week or two where I can back to just pentox, and then rejig my current supplements. At that stage I'll likely include curcumin. My pain hasn't been as bad lately, which I've been rather pleased about.
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Farinthesouth

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Re: Curcumin
« Reply #62 on: October 16, 2010, 10:15:45 AM »

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newguy

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Re: Curcumin
« Reply #63 on: October 16, 2010, 11:50:53 AM »

Thanks for the link farinthesouth. I posted last year about a "super optimized curcumin study" at UCLA. There have been a few ideas over the years for increasing the bioavailability of curcumin. Some members here put it with oil (coconut oil for instance) as that is known to increase its bioavailability. While there are no studies suggesting that it's a worthwhile peyronie's treatment, its anti inflammatory proporties are undeniable. Since inflammatory processes are very much present within peyronie's disease (and a great many other conditions, as the article points out), it's a tact that many people take with these somewhat experimental approaches.

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Farinthesouth

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Re: Curcumin
« Reply #64 on: October 16, 2010, 09:24:12 PM »

Thanks for the link farinthesouth. I posted last year about a "super optimized curcumin study" at UCLA. There have been a few ideas over the years for increasing the bioavailability of curcumin. Some members here put it with oil (coconut oil for instance) as that is known to increase its bioavailability. While there are no studies suggesting that it's a worthwhile peyronie's treatment, its anti inflammatory proporties are undeniable. Since inflammatory processes are very much present within peyronie's disease (and a great many other conditions, as the article points out), it's a tact that many people take with these somewhat experimental approaches.


Yes, I begun a try today, with powdered curcumin and olive oil ( One tea spoon), let´s see what happens....

Best for all

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Farinthesouth

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Re: Curcumin
« Reply #65 on: February 17, 2011, 10:15:06 AM »

Here´s an old, but still relevant article about Curcumin.

Regards


http://www.charakinternational.com/pdfs/Aggarwal-Curcumin-Ch-1.pdf
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peterjackson

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Re: CURCUMIN
« Reply #66 on: June 30, 2012, 05:29:13 AM »

I also just read on a cur cumin blog that it mixed perfectly with butter.
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james1947

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Re: CURCUMIN
« Reply #67 on: July 27, 2012, 10:02:40 PM »

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yyy

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Re: CURCUMIN
« Reply #68 on: July 14, 2014, 07:01:40 AM »

so did anyone get benefits from oral curcumin?
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NeoV

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Re: CURCUMIN
« Reply #69 on: July 14, 2014, 08:46:56 AM »

I tried oral Curcumin for a few months while on pentox. Personally I can't say with any certainty that it helped. But with Peyronie's you can't go off empirical evidence, you have to go off logic. If studies demonstrate that it helps, take it, if it makes logical sense that it might help, take it!

membaka

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Re: CURCUMIN
« Reply #70 on: July 19, 2014, 07:32:35 PM »

I am no biochemist, however i think that the problem with curcumin is the bioavailability in the body when eating.
There are several studies highlightning this problem, companies are currently trying to mix it together with other compounds with the goal of increasing the absorption i think i have read on longecity.
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skunkworks

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Re: CURCUMIN
« Reply #71 on: July 19, 2014, 11:17:05 PM »

Well one of the issues with curcumin is that it is fat soluble, so unless you've got it in oil based gel caps, you might need to take it with some fat.

Would a handful of fish oil tablets do the trick i wonder?

Second problem is of course the expense, it is not cheap, hard to justify it with little solid evidence.
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UrsusMinor

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Re: CURCUMIN
« Reply #72 on: July 20, 2014, 02:23:49 PM »

Yep, curcumin and CoQ10 both need fat (as do A, D, E, and K).

And so do other things, like lycopene in tomatoes (which is supposed to fight prostate cancer).

A somewhat ironic result of the dietary advice of the last several decades is that a lot of people's idea of healthy is a large greens and tomatoes salad with non-fat dressing. A large portion of what's good for you gets wasted.

Of course, curcumin's natural place in the human diet is through turmeric in curries--and curries are invariably somewhat fatty. 
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james1947

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Re: CURCUMIN
« Reply #73 on: July 21, 2014, 12:59:35 AM »

In many places in the world Curcumin is available as spice, really cheep.
Why just not buy and cook with?
Or maybe as skunkworks suggested, with some fish oil capsules?

James
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Freemason

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Re: CURCUMIN
« Reply #74 on: July 31, 2015, 07:35:50 PM »

Curcumin is a great anti oxidant and can significantly reduce inflammation.  However..taking supplements can be challenging from an absorption standpoint as other have said.  Check out the company Aterenon. I just started taking their Lycopene product and they now have Aterenon Active which is Curcumin and has been studied and published for helping athletes recover quicker.  They have some proprietary formula that helps with absorption.  Just FYI.
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goodluck

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Re: CURCUMIN
« Reply #75 on: August 02, 2015, 01:00:41 PM »

supplement manufacturers generally use black pepper to help with absorption.  I saw a study that showed it increased absorption by about 20%.  Not a huge value but better than nothing.  As earlier mentioned taken with some fat can help as well.
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Freemason

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Re: CURCUMIN
« Reply #76 on: August 02, 2015, 03:33:53 PM »

The Lycopene(Aterenon) tomatoe pill I take has Polysorbate 80 and Soy Lecithin both are used to improve absorption. But it's also manufactured using some micro crystallization process which makes it more readily absorbed. Only way to really know how much of anything you are getting is if it's actually been studied in actual humans. Most aren't. Not all supplements are alike I guess is what I'm saying.  Whether it makes a difference or not in my Peyronies Disease...guess I'll find out in about 6 months or so.
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Jonbinspain

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Re: CURCUMIN
« Reply #77 on: August 02, 2015, 03:41:21 PM »

James is right. Curcumin is widely used in Asian Cuisine - especially Indian. You can buy bags of ground Turmeric. If you use it in powder form, be very careful!  It stains just about anything it comes in contact with!...and it ain't easy to shift!...
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Freemason

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Re: Curcumin
« Reply #78 on: August 05, 2015, 07:53:21 PM »

Check out this link.  It's a "new formulation" which purportedly greatly enhances bioavailability of curcumin.  Might be all hype, but for all interested take a look and let us know what you think.

Novel Turmeric Compound Delivers Much More Curcumin to the Blood - Life Extension

Thanks for the link.  Go check out Aterenon..the company. They have a highly bio available Curcumin that has even better absorption...it has been studied and published. It is recommended for Doms..which is what runners get when they have muscle soreness after long runs etc..Aterenon Curcumin significantly improved recovery, soreness etc..

You are correct though...so many supplements are just worthless unfortunately as the absorption is so poor....but the technology is quickly changing and scientists are beginning to figure out how to improve absorption 10 fold or more I some supple,nets.  I take Aterenon Lycopene for LDL Oxidaion prevention...looking forward to getting my blood work checked in 90 days and shocking my cardiologist. Haha.
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james1947

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Re: CURCUMIN
« Reply #79 on: August 05, 2015, 07:58:59 PM »

Regarding highly bio available Curcumin.
My pee is more yellow after eating meals that Curcumin is the main spice in them.
It means is highly bio available or not?

James
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Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Freemason

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Re: CURCUMIN
« Reply #80 on: August 05, 2015, 09:39:19 PM »

Well. I'm no bio Chemistry expert but..what you are peeing out is what your body IS NOT absorbing. Tumeric(Curcumin) is tough for the body to absorb. It is fat soluble not water soluble. If u eat a little fat before taking it it will help a little.  This has been the problem with many vitamin or supplement studies...these authors give people cheap poorly absorbed supplements the make a claim that vitamin X doesn't do anything against disease X.  It's also why getting vitamins and minerals in food naturally is the best way to go but....but hell...it's so hard to get every freakin nutrient u need thru food every single day...not impossible but difficult, for me any way.

My mom has tons of these Andrew Lessman vitamins she takes all day. I decided to do a little test and for a couple days take her CoQ10...from day one a couple hours later I was peeling bright yellow...no absorption.  I switch back to the CoQ10 I'm taking and my urine is clear all day.

Not all supplements are made alike.  I'm long winded..sorry. I've done a fair amount of research into this.  The good news is neuteaceutical companies are finding new technology to vastly increase absorption.  If you have time go check out Aterenon Lycopene.  It's the only supplement...I believe..that has truly shown a positive effect on arterial blood flow in a real published study.
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pizzaman

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Re: CURCUMIN
« Reply #81 on: September 03, 2015, 03:04:55 PM »

I just wanted to mention that curcumin had no effect on my Peyronie's, but it's a great all-around health and anti-inflammatory supplement
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Jonbinspain

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Re: CURCUMIN
« Reply #82 on: September 03, 2015, 03:14:58 PM »

I never like to decry anything, because I've been here long enough to know that what helps one guy, does nothing for another. However, I would personally agree with pizzaman. I tried curcumin and it did nothing for my Peyronies.
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Crooked_Stick

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Re: CURCUMIN
« Reply #83 on: June 23, 2017, 12:56:10 PM »

Ok so I tried curcumin for about a year a few years ago and really had zero results. I have been doing a lot of research lately and came across a relatively new preparation called Theracumin. This product solves the problem of historically low bio-availability for regular curcumin. Regular curcumin is not water soluble and so is difficult to breakdown in the gut. Anyway Theracumin has been clinically proven to be 27 times more bio-available. There are now numerous studies that have been completed and many underway showing that curcumin/Theracumin can benefit many inflammatory, fibrotic and cancer maladies. Will it help Peyronie's sufferers? I don't know but I just started a regimen of 180 mg/day of Theracumin and plan on at least 6 months. Cost looks like $55/month.

     https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=theracurmin&cmd=DetailsSearch

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goodluck

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Re: CURCUMIN
« Reply #84 on: June 26, 2017, 04:14:05 PM »

I also take Theracurmin and feel it is a good form of curcumin.   I can not say if it helps heal peyronies but is does help with pain most anywhere in my body.  I like that you don't have to take it with a meal containing fat like traditional forms of curcumin.  The brand I get is 180 mg per 2 caps.
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