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Author Topic: New Video About Traction  (Read 9542 times)

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WhatNext81

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New Video About Traction
« on: November 09, 2017, 04:17:48 PM »

I hope this is the right place. I'm currently undergoing Xiaflex treatments in conjunction with traction therapy. The video isn't selling anything. Just posting as peyronies is frustrating and any new advancements are promising. I believe the device is only available to patients at Mayo as this is still in clinical trials. So far I am happy with the device.

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Cruelaprilfools

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2017, 07:58:57 PM »

Sounds great, even without seeing the device! Do you have more information or can we participate in trials? Everything he said I experience to various degrees with my PMP. Ready to try anything. Let me know. PM please.
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skunkworks

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2017, 09:12:10 PM »

Can you post a photo of the device?
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Pfract

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 09:14:39 PM »

Man, this is an amazing post! Never thought that a doctor would actually listen to these concerns and even build a new device to address them! I even wrote about some of those problems here myself, questioning some statements made by a few users. I can only hope this doctor is successfull with this. Deserves major credit!

Also, the video seems super legit, and is backed by mayo clinic, which is super well known and reputable, and also the doctor is very well known. Dear lord.... Thank you!

skunkworks

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2017, 11:11:05 PM »

I'm not sure I agree with the direction of traction being at all important, but the rest of it sounds very interesting. Particularly the attachment device, if it works as described that would solve a major problem with traction.

The other major problem being time required. I have a hard time believing just 30min x2 daily is going to get comparable results to 5+ hours daily traction, but it would be great if it turned out to be true.

Thanks for posting WhatNext81!
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skunkworks

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2017, 11:14:08 PM »

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WhatNext81

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2017, 06:00:24 AM »

There's a video demo in the link.

https://www.restorex.com/
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skunkworks

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2017, 09:03:29 AM »

Weird, that video makes it look like it uses static tension.

Does the device not use dynamic tension, via springs or rubber banding?
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TonySa

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2017, 05:33:28 PM »

Seems well thought out in its design.  $495
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QuackAttack

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2017, 07:36:49 PM »

The product makes total sense. My URO has me bend the penis in the opposite direction of curvature during self-modeling.
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pey ron

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2017, 01:48:16 AM »

So is the new device under trial by Mayo Clinic already on sale as "restorex"?

I'm asking since my curvature probably doesn't qualify for the trial, so I'd just buy it...
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skunkworks

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2017, 09:23:19 AM »

I'd wait till the results of the trial are out, so far no actual data has been produced to support it being effective. 
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skunkworks

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2017, 07:20:26 PM »

If the device is spring loaded then you are under dynamic tension. Static tension is dangerous as if you move around at all, the tension can increase dramatically from one moment to the next.

Though actually, if you use the device by bending your penis over that bar it looks like you would be under static tension before the bend and dynamic after it.
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Pfract

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2017, 02:44:22 AM »

Even if it says 30 min, we can always do more right? Does anybody else feel afraid of bending the penis 90 degrees, like in the demo video?

skunkworks

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2017, 03:25:42 AM »

Yeah that bending... not appealing. But this device is probably not for me anyway as I have dents/hourglassing rather than a clear bend.
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skunkworks

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2017, 05:51:14 AM »

Either way, great to see something new come out and I hope the data from the trial supports this being a genuine treatment option for sufferers. The tension stuff is already possible with existing devices, but takes practice and some guesswork to get right so that is an improvement for sure.

The big one will be that clamp, if that actually holds well enough to get a good 1200-1500gram stretch in for a 3-5 hours each day without any of the issues you get from the noose or the suction cups, that would be a big step in the right direction.
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skunkworks

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2017, 08:33:32 AM »

Quote
If you'd like a better explanation I'd be more than happy to write down any questions/concerns that you have and ask at my next appointment. Just shoot me a private message. 

I already emailed the person conducting the study, so hopefully they get back to me. If not, yeah I will definitely send you some questions.
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Cruelaprilfools

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2017, 08:52:51 AM »

I emailed the folks doing the trial as well, and they said you can participate out of state, but you do need to make 3 visits to Rochester, MN for pre during and lost measurements and evaluations. It does appear you can purchase the Restorex device however. I will wait a bit longer to hear some actual feedback, hopefully by folks on this forum! 
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Cruelaprilfools

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2017, 09:58:40 AM »

 And as soon as I posted this I got another email from the doctors assistant. “Yes, the device is for sale online on Restorex website and it is the same device being used in the study.  You do not need a script to purchase the device.  No, Dr. Trost  cannot write a script for your insurance to cover.” 
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pey ron

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2017, 05:32:17 PM »

If one participates in the study, the device is provided for free?

Also: is there a minimum amount of bend to meet the inclusion criteria for the study? I've never had mine measured, but most likely it is not bad enough :(
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Reascot

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2017, 07:39:28 PM »

A clamp that then stretches and bends your penis, sounds like a torture device. Could do a lot more damage than good.
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skunkworks

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2017, 08:02:27 PM »

Hopeully it has some sort of quick release button, as getting an erection while bent at a right angle would be absolutely disasterous.
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skunkworks

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2017, 06:07:29 AM »

Well the guy running the trial got back to me, sent a very nice email actually. He gave me a HEAP of information about what would be required from someone participating in the trial, and it seems pretty easy stuff really.

I am going to add that info to the existing trial thread here - MayoClinic recruiting ppl for trial of novel traction device - Rochester, Minn. - Peyronies Society Forums

I am going to sticky it in the traction forum but also will see if Les might make it an announcement. If somewhere as high profile as the Mayo Clinic is trialing a new treatment method, I want to do as much to help as possible.

It only involves three visits to the clinic in total, and you get a free device. I do not know if those who get randomised into the control group get a free device later on though.
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TonySa

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2017, 03:32:26 PM »

This is very exciting that Mayo Clinic is doing studies on traction for peyroines.  It looks like at 3 months the control group would also be given the device.  I am baffled why they think 30-90 minutes of traction per day is sufficient.
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skunkworks

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2017, 06:11:44 PM »

Me too but that is why these things need trials. Probably has something to do with stretching over a point at the site of the bend
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skunkworks

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2017, 07:23:16 PM »

Current devices are also measured/controlled traction which you can easily increase throughout the session to maintain the level of traction. Those are not points of difference.

The clamp (if it holds securely and comfortably) might be though. Stretching at an angle also if it proves effective. FYI(for everyone else) this is what stretching with an angle looks like:

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skunkworks

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2017, 10:27:29 PM »

Nope, you can't refine adjustable dynamic traction, it's just adjustable dynamic traction. That is it. In fact current devices might be better in that specific regard as the controls allow more fine tuning on tension, if as you have described it, you click up notches to increase the tension rather than using screws. I guess one possible improvement in that regard would be a device that actually had a digital gauge showing the current tension.

Re the picture, it is not explained all that clearly in the visuals of the video but one must assume they are demonstrating how one would treat an upward bend with the plaque at the opposite side of where the device creates the bend, furthest away from the fulcrum point.
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Pfract

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2017, 02:55:48 AM »

Man... I am so glad this device came out. Even if it has shortcomings and we are unsure about certain things, it just feels so much better than the other ones.... Also, I am curious whatnext81: does it come with an instruction manual? How is it?

skunkworks

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2017, 06:31:44 AM »

If it wasn't obvious (which it should be) I am also happy that a new device is being trialed. That does not mean I will stop being 100% objective.

The points of difference are the clamp and the ability to stretch against the plaque. The tension controls are no better than what is available, it is as simple as that.  We need to be objective about these things so that when/if the device shows positive results in the trial, guys here in varying situations can make an informed decision. ie/ If you have dents, no bend and your only objective is to regain lost length is this new device the right one for you?

Lots of questions also. They are primarily concerned about straightening and there is nothing wrong with that, but lots of guys here lose length and take it very badly. Can you regain lost length with their much shorter sessions? Will they measure stretched flaccid length or erect length?

Is the clamp a better attachment? It might be comfortable at 30 mins, but so is a noose. It's when you're trying to do 5 hours a day that things get rough.

Just becoming a cheer squad for a device with no clinical data published is no good for anyone here. I hope we manage to get a few guys from here in the trial.
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Arabia

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2017, 01:10:58 AM »

Looks very interesting and just a tad more expensive than the Penimaster Pro device.
I've been using the PMP device 3 hours a day and there is no discomfort at all.  One can adjust the tension on the fly.

So what this device addresses is not only traction but the ability to bend the penis against the direction of the curvature.  I'm with Skunkworks in that it is very hard to believe that 30 minutes a day will effect much change.  In the PMP manual they do state that their research has shown it is not so much the tension of that device which is important but rather the duration one wears the device. 

Let's wait and see what others think of the device before endorsing it too strongly, but it is sure nice to see a urologist putting brain power and financial resources toward this Peyronies problem.
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TonySa

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2017, 04:42:59 PM »

Has anyone else tried it?
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Paul52

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2018, 11:35:42 AM »

 
I am baffled why they think 30-90 minutes of traction per day is sufficient.

That (small) amount of time puzzles me too. From what I understand is that a light, yet continuous traction for 8-9 hours per day is more or less necessarily for creating/growing new tissue.
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Gutted

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2018, 06:47:28 PM »

Agreed .... I said it in another thread on RestoreX but I believe a well established physiological principal called 'time under tension' is what has delivered results in penis enlargement using traction devices.

My assumption is that when results are achieved with traction treating Peyronies it is because of the same phenomenon

So how does the RestoreX short cut a long established physiological rule. As has been said before, traction against the plaque by bending over a fulcrum just effectively increases the tension at the bend point. Nothing extra can be happening ?

So, we all know, too much tension can cause damage whereas lower tension over time has proven effective

Obviously, I'm open to any explanations on what the ResotreX magic is......
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TonySa

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2018, 09:51:34 PM »

Did you read the post about the 3 mos studies prelim findings?  Thoughts?
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skunkworks

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2018, 05:52:08 AM »

Where is it?
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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2018, 02:59:07 PM »

Another thread, I’ll look for it...
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WhatNext81

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2018, 07:57:12 PM »

Gutted

What device/study showed too much tension can cause damage? How many grams/pounds is considered too much? One other difference, when compared to the PMP, would be the pelvic ring.
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Gutted

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2018, 11:56:07 AM »

WhatNext

I actually never claimed in my post that there were any clinical studies showing too much tension causes damage. Like there are no studies showing too much tension from high pump pressures in VED causes damage. People know from here on the Forum and experience that too much of any tension can cause damage and because their Uro's warn them when discussing such physical therapies.

Many guys have come on here with Peyronies caused by damage from over doing their efforts at Penis enlargement with VED or Traction. So, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence of high tension damage too.

I am not saying the RestoreX applies too much pressure. I am saying that, other than angled tension (which AndroPenis also does) and increased tension at the fulcrum point, there is no difference between RestoreX and most other current devices.

People are just trying to take balanced view about the various products available. I and others have said we are obviously open to physiological explanations and data demonstrating that the MUCH shorter wear time and higher tension in RestoreX are the answer and get results that other traction devices don't or can't. Especially after years of positive results from the 'time under tension' principle for Peyronies, post Penile surgery rehab and Micro Penis syndrome etc etc

I don't know if you tried PeniMaster before making your claims about RestoreX and it's not clear whether RestoreX alone has achieved your results, or the fact that it turns out you are on a Xiaflex plan whilst using Restorex anyway.

I'll say it again, people just want to take a sensible balanced view about available products and in order to do so, want to discuss details and see data to make the best comparison they can.

You have released very little detail about the precise protocol leading to the superb results you claim. I even suggested opening another specific thread on your traction results, when your reason for not giving detail was that you didn't want to post in multiple threads or not have all the information in one central place. You ignored that and other questions on detail yet continued to post how good the Mayo Clinic, Dr Trost and RestoreX are compared to others.

As you can imagine, given all that, some may wonder whether you are in fact a professional Forum Marketeer...

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Pfract

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2018, 02:08:26 PM »

Gutted: actually, you are wrong. There is indeed a medical PDF from my Erectile Dysfunction doctor, that tells exactly that. Somebody using a VED on his erect penis with too much pressure, and ended up with Erectile Dysfunction. Let me try and find it for you.

But it's, on pubmed. I read it before.

edit: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8558654

found it! it's from 1996... but.... Also, this is from one of america's best sexual medicine doctor.

San Diego Sexual Medicine

As for the rest of your post, i fully agree. I am unsure if he is in fact a professional forum marketeer, as you called him, and make no mistake, those guys do exist. He seems legit, although i fully agree with everything you say, about the device and what "whatnext" has not said. YES, do say you had results, and this and that, BUT, as i said it before many times, if you have such amazing results and boast such claims, prove it and help others benefit from them too.

Just don't come here claim things, and then don't back them up. Especially in this day and age, that is so easy to take pictures and post them online on an IMGUR album, for everybody to see, with complete discretion and privacy.

And i am super excited about this device, because it is backed by Mayo, and the first one, to my knowledge, being backed by a reputable Doctor. But yes.... just 30 minutes under traction..... while others recommend hours of it? that's a substantial difference on the approach, so it's legitimate for us END USERS to question the device and the protocol.

WhatNext81

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2018, 02:35:51 PM »

Gotcha. I mentioned my results in conjunction with xiaflex so there wouldn't be any confusion with the quick correction of my curvature. Xiaflex doesn't do anything for lost length. Since starting traction with RestoreX, I have regained 1.6" in length from the 2" that I had lost. That was achieved in roughly 3 months time. I'm using the device twice a day, 30 mins each session. The first 15 mins I stretch it straight. The second 15 mins I stretched to the left, opposite of my 40 degree curve. I believe that the higher tension is safely achieved due to the pelvic ring. It allows for the plumbing from your scrotum to pull through the ring, at the bottom, as opposed to being stuck under it if it were just a regular circle. To see if I could notice a difference, I positioned the ring so it wouldn't allow for my scrotal  tissue to be pulled through and I was not able to get near as good/long of a stretch, not to mention it was very uncomfortable. I doubt the 7lbs of pressure could safely and effectively be used without the ring design.

I never made a claim saying this device was better than any of the others. I mentioned that the amount of time other devices require more wear time and that was something that wasn't appealing to me. I knew I wouldn't put in the time. While I understand being objective and skeptical, I don't understand others claiming there's nothing new here. Some even sound like they should have been along side the dr/engineering team while this was being developed. Joking of course 😂 Also, professional marketeer, that I am not. Just a patient with this crappy thing called peyronies. Again, I'm grateful for this forum and the advice on here as it helped me greatly since being diagnosed.


My regiment- Xiaflex, hand modeling 5 times a day,(specific to how the dr showed me) traction for 60 mins a day and generic cialis at bedtime. 
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Hrvat21

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2018, 04:15:25 PM »

I need to buy traction guys, should i go for this restorex or just buy good 'ol pennimaster pro
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TonySa

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2018, 04:33:57 PM »

Also, ESL40 if you can’t spend as much...bout $40 and works like the PNP with straps only...no rods.
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Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

Gutted

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2018, 07:15:18 PM »

Somebody using a VED on his erect penis with too much pressure, and ended up with Erectile Dysfunction. Let me try and find it for you.

But it's, on pubmed. I read it before.

edit: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8558654

found it! it's from 1996... but.... Also, this is from one of america's best sexual medicine doctor.

San Diego Sexual Medicine


Thanks for the scientific proof Pfract   :D

Thanks for the acknowledgement WhatNext81. The extra bit of detail is interesting. If I am understanding you right - 7lbs of traction force is applied during each session??. That is an interesting data point and seems a massive difference from what I have read about other devices offering a range from a few hundred grams to maxing out at around ~1200gms.

So maybe that is the first piece of data, in addition to the angle, that is of significant difference from other units and why treatment time is or has to be so short??

The thought of 7lbs of traction makes my eye's water  ;D ;D ..... it's seems an inconceivable pull. Pick up and feel a 7lb dumbell in the gym !!!



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WhatNext81

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2018, 09:28:09 PM »

The first photo shows the Main Body of the device close to the pelvic ring. The closer it is to your body, the closer you are to that 7lbs of tension. The second photo shows it fully expanded, note the white lines are now visible. At that spot it is around 3lbs of tension. 7lbs sounds like a lot, but the self adheasive wrap makes things more comfortable. I use a different kind than what it comes with. There's info in the manual on how to ease into using the device. I took it a little slower until I was comfortable with using it as directed. There are 3 height adjustments for the clamp head to make it more comfortable. There are also 3 adjustments for clamp location to effectively address your curvature. The pelvic ring and rod locations are all adjustable based on the curvature you're correcting. You are to take measurements of your penis to select which extension rods to use.  You also take another measurement in order to adjust the clamp location to address your curvature.
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WhatNext81

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2018, 09:35:13 PM »

Here is a pic of the inside of the clamp. The grooves help make it more comfortable as well. The head of the penis sits right above that and keeps the pressure on the glans more comfortable.

Why are my pics only viewable when signed in?
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WhatNext81

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2018, 10:08:53 PM »

Here's the pelvic ring. The contours make it so nothing gets pinched, scrotal skin and the "plumbing," as I so eloquently put it earlier, don't get jammed up under the ring like it would if it were a flat circle being pushed up against the fat pad. That's also why I think the amount of tension is achievable while still feeling as comfortable as possible. Sorry for the separate posts. I'm having issues uploading the pics.
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Gutted

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2018, 10:04:30 AM »

Yeah thanks WhatNext.

When mentioning the 7lbs of traction pressure being high, perhaps I should have been very specific. I wasn't really referring to 7lbs of traction pressure being a lot in the context of the attachment mechanism of a device or a device's pelvic ring base. I more meant 7lbs of stretch tension on the penis tissue itself seems huge and actually is by comparison to other devices. That's what I meant by referring to picking up a 7lbs dumbell (or 3.2Kg) .... so folks could get a clue as to the force pulling on their penis if that dumbbell was hung off it !!

I agree though, the higher the tension the better the holding mechanism needs to be on any device ... for comfort and safety of the glans. Although, the extremely short wear times of RestoreX may come into play in that respect.

How is the pulling force measured on RestoreX ?? What force did you start at ??.. and what increments did you work up in over what time period??

I noticed on PeniMaster that when I tried to increase the pulling force by only about a couple of hundred grams (after doing it at a slightly lower setting for a month or so) I got enough aching to signify the tissues were definitely not happy. I find increments have to be done in very small amounts (not because of the glans attachment mechanism or pelvic ring on the Penimaster)

This is why I am so curious about your experience, as you are talking about tensions in multiple lbs, I and others are operating in only 100's of grams yet that can make the pulling pressure high enough to cause pain in the penis - obviously an alarm bell for damage
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Paul52

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2018, 11:29:37 AM »

- Somebody using a VED on his erect penis with too much pressure, and ended up with Erectile Dysfunctionhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8558654
- Thanks for the scientific proof Pfract   :D

This is no scientific proof. It's a report about 1 person (N=1) -who wrongly used a VED- with lot's of estimates and assumptions.
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TonySa

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #48 on: January 21, 2018, 01:54:42 PM »

Maybe the 3-7 lb of traction is the reason why only 30” x 2/d is needed.
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Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

WhatNext81

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Re: New Video About Traction
« Reply #49 on: January 21, 2018, 02:16:03 PM »

Instructions in the manual are in the attached pic.

Watch the video again so my explanation makes more sense. Never are you forced to use the maximum force it's capable of. I start out with a gentle stretch. Advancing just enough on the extension rods to just barely bury the white line on the tension rods, knowing the tissue isn't under much tension and will expand quickly. I repeat this two or three notches so it quickly reveals the white line. I then advance it several notches and apply as much force as I can comfortably tolerate, getting further away from the white line. The notches don't indicate the amount of tension being applied as it depends on your penis length. That's why it's important to pay attention to the tension rods and how they correlate with the notches you are at on the extension rods. As others have mentioned with other traction devices, some days you aren't going to get the same stretch comfortably. On those days I back off on tension. I took it really slow while getting familiar with how everything works together and until I felt comfortable. I started out only using a straight stretch for 2 weeks. Starting at 10 mins total for each session, not using for more than 30 mins total per day. Then 15 min sessions, for a total of 45 mins each day. Then 30 mins each session, for a total of 60 mins a day. After that conservative warm up period, I began to incorporate stretching to the left to address my curvature. I was very conservative here and followed the "Time Angled Position" as directed in the instructions. Starting over with days 1-7. I did the same
with the straight stretch. I felt much more confident with the device overall by familiarizing myself with the straight stretch first. In general, you average around 5lbs of tension when using it according to the instructions. If memory serves me well, with the white line showing, you're roughly at 3lbs of pressure. A few things I do before putting on the device, I make sure my penis is warm simply by covering up with a blanket. Also, since the device is plastics I place the pelvic ring under my waist band to get it closer to body temp. This way it isn't cold when I go to put on the device and start my session.

In regards to force, I was surprised by the amount of force I was shown for hand modeling. The dr showed me and did it while I was up for treatment. He expressed the importance of finger placement at the base of the penis in order to get a safe pull. He also instructed me on bending protocol for my curvature.
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