HYPERTHERMIA - Infrared light & Heating therapy

[james1947]

Andrew

Interesting approach. The question is if the plaque will soften enough to be simply extracted.

I had a TUNA procedure to shrink my enlarged prostate 3&1/2 years ago and it was successful.
The procedure is to heat up the prostate with low frequency radio waves and as the uro told me, the prostate shrinking like a hamburger when barbecued.
Interesting if can be applied for Peyronie's plaques also.

James

[Andrew]

Perhaps IF the plaque could become soft enough through applying heat, then a syringe could be used to suck out the plaque, in a similar way to having Liposuction.   It's certainly an idea worth experimenting with if the plaque can become temporarily softened.

[Skjaldborg]

As I understand it, part of the problem is that scar tissue actually replaces healthy tunica tissue. Therefore if you remove the scar tissue you must replace it with something. The surgical procedure "incision and grafting" does this very thing.

This sounds like a great idea if they could find a way to grow tunica tissue in the lab and get it to attach and heal properly to existing tissues.

-Skjaldborg

[George999]

I agree with Skjald on this.  He is correct.  Scar tissue is not like foreign object in the tissue that can just be excised or sucked out.  It IS the tissue.  To just liposuction it would be like solving osteoporosis by just removing all the person's bones.  Thus the value of hyperthermia would be its benefit in promoting healing in this tissue, not in somehow changing it to a liquid. But make no mistake, ANY degree of healing would result in softening.  One of the primary benefits of hyperthermia is an increase in blood flow and oxygenation of tissues.  There is actually what looks like it MIGHT be a very good device on the market for this, but it is significantly expensive.  http://www.chi-machine.com/hothouse.html  - George

[Impala2]

IT would be good to get more and better clinical information on value of heat treatments. One study suggested 39 - 40 degrees C applied over a period is really helpful. This surprises me as it is just above body temperature. What about the effectiveness of higher temperatures? The Brazilian study appears to have faded.

[peterjackson]

As I understand it, part of the problem is that scar tissue actually replaces healthy tunica tissue. Therefore if you remove the scar tissue you must replace it with something.

[lagrasshopper]

We live in the SW US. My husband was diagnosed a few years ago with Peyronies. He first noticed a hollow place at the base. Then he commented that his penis seemed fractured inside. Next was a shortening. Next came a corkscrewing. He was distressed. I am a body worker and owned a red LED Deep Penetrating Light (Infrared and LED) to help with nerve pain on my clients. He tried the light on his penis on a whim and within two weeks of daily tx, the corkscrewing of his penis relaxed and went away. The hollow place never filled in and the length never returned. His penis is thicker. Perhaps the Deep Penetrating Light from LED Technologies can play a roll in reversing recent damage from Peyronies? I did a search of this site and didn't see any info on DPL. We ordered it from Amazon. It looks like an open book on a stand. It cost around $300 I believe.  He has Dupuytren's contracture of his hands. The light helped his hands flatten as well. NASA has done studies of LED light helping healing in space and chemo side effects. I'm wondering if a red inexpensive LED flashlight could help with Peyronies?

I have tried massage techniques on his penis and hands, I don't think they helped.  

[james1947]

lagrasshopper

It is encouraging that the "corkscrew" of your husband went away.
We have a topic regarding infrared therapy, you may want to read what people have done and they results.
Alternative Treatments of Peyronie's Disease > HYPERTHERMIA - Infrared light & Heating therapy

My uro also proposed me this therapy, unfortunately the device is not available where I am living.

James

[George999]

This subject actually HAS been discussed before on this forum, but, as I recall, nobody was willing to pony up the money for anything beyond a toy to give it a try.  All the time I have had a lingering suspicion that these things might indeed work.  The secret is deep tissue penetrating IR.  That can do wonders in terms of quelling inflammation.  So I am really, really delighted to here a report of a success using this approach.  Hopefully at some point more forum guys will be willing to give this a run and we will be able to get more feedback on it.  In the mean time, la, thanks for sharing this with us!  - George

[lagrasshopper]

I just thought of something to add about the Deep Penetrating Light. It is my understanding that looking at the light can damage the eye's retina over time and reduce vision. The company sells plastic eye covers if you use the light, say, on the face. When I use one in my work, I try to cover it with a blanket while it is on.  

[swolf]

I am really intrigued by this. The specific item mentioned by lagrasshopper is $350 on Amazon, which I think may be forever out of my reach, but there is a similar (smaller) device from the same company that is $160. Unfortunately many of the reviews claim the cheaper one is very poorly made and breaks easily. I could see myself eventually spending something under $200 to try this, though, so I'll be researching the whole subject more and looking into what is the smartest device to buy.

[richard wheeler]

That therapy sounds intriging but i am wee confused and have a couple of questions.the  type of unit that was used , who makes it and is there a model number? i believe you usually get what you pay for and a $300 unit might be a waste of money.Also ,if your husband has seen improvements and has access  to the unit at your office, why would you buy another one?  

[james1947]

lagrasshopper

I will second richard wheeler.
Can you give us the model number you are using as this device had helped your husband?
I suppose some forum members will be ready to buy one (including me) if we will know the model number you are using.

James

[swolf]

I assume it is this one as there is a review by lagrasshopper on the same page: http://www.amazon.com/DPL-Deep-Penetrating-Light-Therapy/dp/B000RIJ2ZY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1344648888&sr=8-1&keywords=Deep+Penetrating+Light
There is no discernible model number, it is just called a Deep Penetrating Light device, and the one on that page is sold by a seller called Maxxima. I believe the manufacturer is LED Technologies like lagrasshopper noted. It is $349 with free shipping within the US. I doubt anyone is going to impulsively buy it, but if you are interested I would not buy the one on Amazon without thoroughly checking other options and prices as Maxxima is probably a middle-man company marking up the product for a profit. Amazon is usually the cheapest source on a lot of items, but it absolutely isn't always. The device might be cheaper somewhere else.

For a cheaper device, after reading a little earlier this evening I found this site to be the most promising: http://www.theledman.net/order.html (it is significantly marked up on Amazon; a seller has it for $199 while it is about $130 +$10 shipping at the actual LED Man web site) I'm going to see if that's something I might be able to afford to buy soon.

EDIT: I should add that the LED Man device is cheaper in price, but doesn't seem to be cheaper in quality, and it has a much denser array of LED lights. I'm still reading about the technology behind all this and people's experiences with the devices, but from what I've read so far a lot of folks really do vouch for its efficacy. I would be surprised if using one of these doesn't help in some way, though how much help it is remains to be seen, and would probably vary on an individual basis. But it sounds promising.

After having some scary worsening of my condition I am back in a stable (and improved) phase through continued Chinese herbal therapy (my base line treatment that has helped me through thick and thin), and now finally being in a position where I can commit to a VED protocol every day, I would love to be able to add this light therapy into my regimen (not to mention there are other areas of my body that could use the help if it works). Not sure when exactly I'll be able to afford one; might possibly be within the next few weeks.

[lagrasshopper]

Swolf is right. I don't think there is a model number. LED Technologies had a 50% discount if you are a dealer, at least that was true 2-3 years ago when I checked into it.

Light is light so I suppose you could buy an infrared light and a LED light inexpensively and separately. The Deep Penetrating Light device is hands free and switches off automatically which prevents tissue burns. Both essential features for my business.

I have more than one unit for sanitation reasons and convenience. It is a business expense for me.

I've used the light on probably less than 200 individual clients. My husband is the only one that I've used it for peyronies. It seems to help with injuries, foot neuropathy, soreness. I loaned it to one client for the arthritis in her hands and she didn't think it helped her. One client had nerve pain in his face and he felt the light made it worse that evening even tho it felt good when it was on. That was the only ill effect so far.

On the cost saving topic, physical therapists and massage therapists may have this light in their offices. I'm wondering if it would be possible to rent it from them or come for private sessions for a test run a few times. I'm wondering if the light was prescribed by a doctor, if it would be covered by insurance? Some spas and gyms have infrared saunas.

Anyway, I hope some people are helped by my husbands experience. I've been comforted by a this website.  

[George999]

I think it is appropriate to note that we ARE talking about heat here.  The challenge would be to apply enough to be therapeutic, but not enough to result in a roasted weenie.  I am not sure how easy it would be to achieve this.  There might be some real risks in this regard with using a cheaper device aside from the risk of it being ineffective.  - George

[swolf]

Not surprisingly it is hard to find good information online amidst the mountains of junk and companies just trying to make quick $$$, but I think I am slowly finding some good things to read. Google Scholar turns up some interesting studies. I will try to post something once I can get my head around it all.

Polarized light seems to be another separate therapy, with Bioptron being the name most attached to that. Their devices are on Amazon but are a hefty $515 at the cheapest. Actually wait... here one is for $310: http://drwhiteschoice.com/drwhite_products_bioptron.html. That page claims "there are no thermal (heat) hazards with the BIOPTRON Light Therapy System," as opposed to Infra-red, which would have that hazard. The light therapy also does not contain any of the UV spectrum, so problems associated with that shouldn't exist.

There are multiple studies on polarized light therapy, one being this: http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/bjps/article/S0007-1226%2802%2993860-9/abstract:

SUMMARY
This article reports a clinical study investigating the role of polarised-light therapy in the conservative treatment of deep dermal burn wounds. In 22 out of 67 patients with deep dermal burn wounds, clinical evaluation revealed only a very limited potential for spontaneous healing, and, despite the fact that the majority of the surgeons (four out of six) would have recommended surgery, these patients were treated conservatively with polarised-light therapy (400–2000 nm, 40 mW cm−2, 2.4 J cm−2) until complete closure. Evaluation by a panel of four surgeons, all experts in burn surgery, revealed that conservative treatment of these deep dermal wounds with polarised-light irradiation resulted in a significantly shorter healing time, with almost no hypertrophic scarring, and optimal aesthetic and functional results at long-term follow-up. No extension of the hospital stay was required. Polarised-light therapy may be a valuable way of avoiding surgery in patients with deep dermal burns.

[George999]

Well, now we know that when we have burned ourselves with our $300 LED light, we can always fix the damage with a $500 polarized light.  Is this information overload or what?

Seriously though, I do think these light therapy systems have potential.  Please continue to let us know anything you find out on the subject.

- George

[swolf]

I wouldn't quite call it information overload, but there are a few distinct types of light used. Polarized light therapy has been supposedly used in Europe for 20 years or so (do any European members have experience with it in some way?). Personally, I don't see ever being able to afford one of the more expensive devices, so I'm specifically interested in figuring out a safe way to try the LED device from LED Man.

[goodluck]

First of all, the results Ladygrasshopper reported is quite astonishing considering it has only been two weeks.  Most noticable improvements take months if not years.

I assume her husband is continuing on with the treatment to see if he can achieve other impovements.

It sounds like the LED lighting therapy is more about heat.  Why not use a heating pad or similar?
Is there something else about the LED light that is theraputic?

My accupuncturist is now using laser light therapy with his traditional practice. He says that there are light receptors beneath the surface of the skin and the laser light stimulates them to encourage chi flow and therefore encourages healing.

I am just throwing this out for discussion as the laser may help break up scar tissue and minerization.  Not to mention move some chi.

[swolf]

It sounds like the LED lighting therapy is more about heat.  Why not use a heating pad or similar?
Is there something else about the LED light that is theraputic?

Yes, there is something about how the actual light stimulates cells to regenerate, in addition to the heat. This is something I was reading about to try to post a summary, but I have been busy and tonight I have quite a headache, but I'll try to soon.

[George999]

A huge issue here is wavelength.  Not all IR is equal.  Certain IR wavelengths penetrate deeper than others, some are reputed to be deeply penetrating.  And all of this has an effect on everything from circulation to inflammation.  Here is a link to a vendor site that has some interesting discussion about IR therapy:  http://www.promolife.com/cart/far-infrared-therapy  I have no personal interest or ties to this company and do not know them or have any personal experience with them or their products.  But I have to say, their stuff looks very interesting.  And here are a few more ->  http://www.energywellnessproducts.com/hothouse.htm  http://www.chimachine4u.com/fir.html  So there is a LOT of promotion going on here and some very high prices for these products.  The question is do they work?  At this point there is no definitive answer to that question.  But they certainly sound interesting. - George

[swolf]

It would be hard to top this article for concentration of information: http://heelspurs.com/led.html

The author seems convinced LED light therapy with the right frequency (and pulsing light being more effective) can help heal recent injuries and that it works very well for pain management, but not convinced that it can heal scars and chronic inflammation. Here are a few quotes, the entire page is too vast to even try to paraphrase:

For most soft-tissue injuries beneath the skin, the pain goes from an 8 to a 2 (on a scale of 10) after an hour or two of treatment with good home-use LED devices.  For exposed injuries like burns and retina injuries, only 1 to 10 minutes of LED light is used, depending on the device.   Applying LED light for too long cancels the benefits, but the time of application is hard to determine. Too little light and there is little benefit, and too much light and there is no benefit.  For injuries where the pain can be felt, I apply it only long enough to notice the maximum pain relief and no longer.  The pain relief can be amazing in burns, cuts, and other wounds even if wound healing is not faster.

Companies have made various strange claims that I do not believe: yellow for wrinkles, green for cancer, and blue for wrinkles.

Skin: Wrinkles, Acne, Scars, and Spots

I have historically been against the idea that LEDs might help skin for anyhting other than recent wounds. There appears to be only one good article that disagrees with me in the case of sun-damaged skin (see this). But for now, I will retain my old, skeptical comments about LEDs and skin, as can see in the rest of this section.

Simple LED devices for use at home do not work on wrinkles, aging, or scars. Wrinkles are old, fixated collagen, like scars.  LEDs repair recent injuries in cells that need more energy. This is the only way they work. There is no reason to believe this will reduce existing scars or wrinkles. Pictures of wrinkles before and after are not comparable because the angle of the lighting and the amount of smiling drastically changes things.  I found only one journal article (see below) that indicated simple red and infrared light energy can help.

In reference to a "light therapy bed" someone made using halogen lights, which you can read about in detail at http://heelspurs.com/led.html#heat:

2010 update: He emailed: "About 20 minutes on my back then 20 face down.... Kind of makes me really relaxed and sleepy too . . . similar to eating turkey."
2011 update: He reports: "It heals scars and keloids - not immediately, but gradually. Also moles disappear over time, even ones I've had from birth."  

There are a list of PubMed sources cited at the bottom of the page. I'm looking into building my own handheld device (there is info on that too! I can't remember if he mentions this figure but it's stuck in my head from somewhere: it might cost very roughly around $40-50 to build one. Depends on how many bulbs you want). Really this is about the best article I've seen on the subject, one that is written from reason and experience rather than trying to push a product or make absurd claims. My hope is still that it will have some benefit in the way of Peyronie's, but I'm holding my expectations in check. If it loosens things up in any way I'll be happy with it, though.

[james1947]

swolf

Thanks for posting the link.
It is indeed a very comprehensive article.
I am on my way back from holiday, when I will arrive home I will get deep into it.
The cost can't be more than $40, 50 as you mentioned (I am working in electronics, this staff is cheep)

James  

[swolf]

I'm interested now for the pain management more than anything. I'm still trying to getting used to using a VED but my body does not like it very much. I did some damage to myself with it at first, but even now no matter how gently I use it I end up with an increase in pain. A burning kind of pain that I've had in the past. It's pretty frustrating because it's keeping me from being able to full commit to the VED. If one of these light thingamajigs can work alongside that to help make it work more smoothly, that would be great.

[james1947]

swolf
I read on our forum that the IR therapy helped one of our board members with low back pain.  Maybe you can find the topic/post.
Maybe I have asked already and you give answer:
Do you use Pentox? It helps with pain, for most of the forum members

James

[swolf]

I've tried to take Pentox several times and it worked extremely well for my Peyronie's symptoms but I am unable to take it because of really unpleasant mental effects. That only adds to the frustration of not being entirely sure if I can continue with the VED: both of the best treatment options may be unavailable to me. If that's the case I'm not sure what I would do, hence I am open to any and all alternative treatments (besides just being someone that is open to those anyway). Really the main focus of my health right now is Lyme disease, which is what precipitated the onset of Peyronie's in the first place and I think continues to fuel it. TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) herbs keep the muscle pain and soreness of that in check, and give me a ton of energy, but this past week because of some bad scheduling I realized I may not have those for several weeks, and I am already sore, though luckily not badly. (i've said this elsewhere on the forum and I'll repeat it: TCM herbs are extremely powerful. I urge anyone needing another treatment option to try them immediately.) I think the Lyme in my system is the main stumbling block for my recovery right now. Now that I think about it, Pentox being an immune system suppressant, that may not be good for me to take as it might let the Lyme spirochetes flourish. Anyway, the point is unfortunately no, I can't take Pentox.

[james1947]

swolf

Sorry you can't take Pentox and and can't use VED. You may be right regarding Pentox as being an (mild) immune system suppressant, myself stopping Pentox for a while if I have flue or some other infection.

Regarding TCM, I am a believer also do to results I had from using them:
1. Suffering from migraine all my life (sometimes every week) until some three years ago it was completely eliminated (two or three times a year now) by drinking a tea from Tiens.
2. Dissolving the many stones I had in both kidneys by taking two different herb capsules (also from Tiens) for some four months, completely clean kidneys now. This treatment is not mentioned by Tiens, but a local expert told me it will work and it really works.

Wish you success with the Lyme treatment.
James

[goodluck]

Just a thought.......I don't know if this would be effective to balance the immune lowering effects of Pentox....Why not try mushrooms.  Reishi or shitaki mushrooms are excellent for immune system building. They have been used in Asia for centuries. You can buy tablets or see an herbalist and get a wild harvested tincture.

Check out fungi perfecti.  They have an excellent reputation for making high quality mushroom products.  The owner Paul Stamets was a consultant to New Chapter and he developed some of their mushroom lines.  What I heard was He severed his relationship when he learned they started to cut corners and were not totally following his practices.  I hear nothing but positive things about his integrity and his commitiment to making the best mushroom products.   I have been using his My Community Host Defense product.  You can get it on iherb and Swanson for a decent discount.

I am not trying to sell anything just a concept that may balance out a side effect.  I am happy to be corrected if my theory is flawed.

[swolf]

I have close to a hundred 850nm (infrared) LED bulbs on order and will be ordering some at 660nm (red) momentarily, along with some other random parts. It will be a while before I get all the parts and can (attempt to) assemble this thing, but hopefully I'll be able to post about my frankenstein prototype soon.

[swolf]

Mission accomplished! It turned out exactly as I was hoping. I wasn't able to take pictures throughout the process but I can take a picture of the finished piece and post what I did shortly. It is a circuit board with 56 infrared LEDs and 49 red (so several inches by several inches square), attached with two about three foot long insulated wires to a 12 volt power supply box. I've tried it a few times now and can't report much, but it's only been a day or two. I've been using it for about 10 minutes at a time: laying back in bed, placing up against my skin and holding a pillow or heavy cloth over it (LED light may or may not be dangerous for your eyes. I'd rather just not take any chances by looking at it too long). Within 2-3 minutes it warms up and for the rest of the time there is heat as well as light. I was having intermittent pain tonight and after 10 minutes with the light the pain is all gone. My penis is in a much looser state. I'll be using it once in the morning and once at night from now on and will see how it helps.

If anyone is interested in this let me know and I will get directions up, if not I will get them up when I can. I spent less than $40, I believe. The most expensive part was the power supply box which cost $20 shipping including off ebay. The only tools you need are a soldering iron and wire snips.

[james1947]

Swolf

Encouraging results, also with the pain and also with the price.
Keep us updated how is affecting the plaques.

James

[Sargonnas]

We made at home a sauna device of near infrared with the instructions in drwilson.com. It was for detoxification purposes but he states in his page this light therapy has many benefits regarding inflammation and wound healing. http://drlwilson.com/SAUNAS/SAUNA%20PLANS.htm

I went to the uro just two days ago and he played with my dong like it was rubbery, the bastard. He noticed he was making me suffer because I was squirming and moaning in the stretcher and told me I have the corpus cavernosus inflammed and that he suspects I have Peyrone´s or developing it (I have not bending that I know of). Since this I have had pretty intense pain. I have had this before from unknown causes but this time the manipulations of this doc were the obvious trigger.

Yesterday the pain in my penis was unbearable and I tried 15 minutes of direct exposure to the light bulbs and force me to have a pathetic erection of 50 -40% while receiving the heat. I didnt noticed a major improvement. Today the pain, after a night of insomnia because of the suffering, was less intense. I did another 15 minutes of exposure with getting a brief erection with thoughts only. The pain its very lessened now, COMPARED WITH HOW IT WAS OF COURSE.

I am just going to do another session now. Penis pain its one of the worst types of pain because has a profound psychological effect of helplesnesss and anxiety, at least for me. It means something bad its going on there. In Peyrone´s it relates to the second stage in which the penis is inflammed, later on in stage 3 the fibrous tissue takes place where the collagen scars were placed and becomes hard leading to dephormities . I wont let that happen. The scar tissues that I notice at the middle of my penis will controlled with high doses of Neprinol, Pentox or other thing. But I will need to get those as soon as I can... not easy in my situation  

[goodluck]

Swolf,

Ditto what James said.  Maybe after trying the light therapy for a while you can segway into a gentle VED program.  It seems like a natural order.  1st do light therapy and follow up with VED after you have some good blood flow for a while.

Keep us informed.

Good Luck

[swolf]

Hopefully I can, but I am hesitant to pick up the VED again because it has caused me nothing but further drastic damage. I'm pretty sure I can objectively say I was using it gently and correctly and it still did harm, so I don't know. It is nice to have a tool that only seems to have benefits though (how big of a benefit I don't know yet), so I will be continuing with the light therapy for a while.

[james1947]

Swolf

If:

I'm pretty sure I can objectively say I was using it gently and correctly and it still did harm, so I don't know.

Try to find other way (You find already ) and don't use VED.

James

[james1947]

Swolf

You have finished your LED device at October 5. Have some news regarding usage & benefits?
I was thinking to make this project also not just for the penis but also for low back pain.
Unfortunately my time schedule is so tight that I didn't get there yet.

James

[swolf]

I've been busy with a new job and completely forgot to post the directions for making one of these. As for results, I haven't been using the device regularly. It does seem to work well for pain but the level of damage I have now (most of which has been caused by the VED which caused DISASTROUS results) does not seem like something it's going to affect much. I should use it more because it definitely can't hurt, but I think it works best with fresh injuries. I cut my finger badly and used the LED device on that and I believe healed a lot quicker than I normally would have. If you have back pain I think it would probably work very well for you, but you would probably want to build a biggest device than mine, basically big enough to cover the area you want to treat.

Like George I think wrote earlier, the heat from the device is NOT particularly beneficial. Maybe some degree of heat is but at first I was placing the device right up against my skin and the heat would eventually cause my scar damage/whatever to contract tightly (and most of my damage restricts girth, so basically I would get very tight and narrow as my penis "seized up"). The heat is slow to build up, though. I hold the device 4-6 inches away now (maybe a little more, just guessing from memory) and that fixes that problem. If anything feels too hot I just increase the distance.

[james1947]

Swolf

Thanks for the answer.

James

[TooYoungForThis]

Has anyone had significant improvements with this? are the results cumulative? I notice that it literally makes the plaue area feel really good. It could be placebo but it literally feels as if the heat ials destroying the tissue gradually. thoughts?

[james1947]

TooYoungForThis

The subject was discussed on the forum:
HYPERTHERMIA - Infrared light and Heating therapy - Peyronies Society Forums
This is the reason you are not getting answers

James

[Joseph2]

Hey everyone, This is my first time posting here, but i have had success using a method that i think would be beneficial to others in a situation similar to mine. To start with, i have no signs of ED and have not had pain since the initial injury, but heres a little about my story:

I have a thin and tall build, and I believe my penis reflects that. I am 6-3 and about 180 pounds, and my penis has always been long, but like my build has lacked girth. I am very young to be diagnosed with peyronies, at age 20, and i am a avid athlete and workout a lot. Therefore i think i have naturally good circulation. However, due to the length of my penis and relatively thin girth i believe i was very prone to an injury at some point, and that injury happened this summer when my girlfriend was on top during sex. Basically there was a miscommunication and my penis broke and made the pop noise and a few months later started to bend towards the left around midway. The bend was never very serious, but i saw a urologist anyway, and he said that i had early signs of peyronies, however, there was no plaque yet, so he put me on pentox, arginine, carnatine, and told me to use an extender to straighten my penis.  

To start with, I followed the supplement and pentox regimen exactly, despite the negative side effects from the drugs. I actually found the pentox and supplements reduced my recovery time which is awesome. Anyway, after using the extender for about a month daily, I noticed that it was actually having an inverse effect on me. The extender was actually causing me to develop an hourglass shape, an caused me to start having a hard flaccid, and i stopped right away. I figured that in order to cure scar tissue blood is needed in the area, so i stopped using the extender and my hard flaccid went away. I also started taking Ginko, Ginseng, and Cowhage to try to increase blood flow to the penis. And thats when i started seeing increased results and a decrease in curvature.

Basically, what I do is every time i take a shower i wrap my penis in a washcloth, and let very hot water run over the wash cloth to provide even heating over the entire area. I then proceed to become erect (I have always had a very easy time getting erect by just using my mind). I try to do this about 20 minutes after i take my pill regimin. Anyway, i warm the tissue and become erect and keep it under the warm washcloth for about 20 minutes. After the shower i notice the curve is almost completely gone, and as the tissues cool it becomes a little more pronounced. Over a period of time this has decreased the curvature when the tissues are not warm, and has actually increased the girth of my penis.

I am obviously in a unique situation because i do have peyronies, however i don't have any ED that typically goes along with it. I figured the warming of the tissue (which dilates blood vessels) and the increase to the blood increases the absorption of the pentox, and thus makes the scar tissue more malleable and thus reduces it over time. I just wanted to share this with everyone else and was wondering if anyone else had success doing a similar treatment plan?  

[George999]

Joseph, This sounds to me like a hyperthermia technique.  Hyperthermia has been much discussed around here and many have found it to be beneficial.  But you may have happened upon a better way to execute it.  Thanks so much for sharing this, along with the supplement regimin.  It is all very interesting.  - George

[Joseph2]

George,

It just makes a lot of sense to me because it seems like a lot like weightlifting to me. When lifting, your muscles are torn, and fill with blood, and they grow due to the nutrients carried in the blood. So isn't the single most important thing to fix this disease bloodflow? On top of that after soaking the area with warm water, and then attaining an erection it seems that the dilation of the tissue allows more oxygen and nutrients to break down the scar tissue.

[samsabina]

The part that concerns me is that using the stretcher led to hourglass. I fear that might have happened to me - and I was quite diligent with that thing, per Mulhall's instructions.

I would guess the VED therapy (which Mulhalls discourages) would actually be much less likely to create hourglass because it isn't stretching quite like that.

As for heat, apparently people are having good luck with infrared, too, which penetrates deeper than surface heat.  

[George999]

Sam, I have neither used VED or a stretcher device, but I agree with you that use of the stretcher devices is risky.  The VED, properly used, is a much more controlled stretching in every way and much less prone to setting off an inflammatory response.  - George

[skunkworks]

There is actually a study on hyperthermia and Peyronie's, showing it to beneficial. It has actually been posted on this forum before, but I think it is long buried now.

Role of hyperthermia in the treatment of ... [Int J Hyperthermia. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI

Hyperthermia significantly reduced plaque size and penile curvature and led to an increase in mean scores of erectile function (EF) domain, while verapamil had no such effects. Haemodynamic parameters were not significantly modified in either group. Hyperthermia caused significantly fewer side effects than verapamil infiltrations and was significantly more effective in preventing disease progression. There were no significant differences between the two groups in terms of pain reduction during erection.

[Hawk]

I am possibly going to to merge this topic with the Hyperthermia topic.

I have to disagree that that traction is more risky or less controlled than the VED.  I own both and have used both.  If I had to vote on the most risky it would be the VED.  It consider neither risky if the user educated themselves and proceeds with caution.  I also dismiss rare individual reports of someone that progresses with Peyronies Disease after starting use of one of these devices.  Peyronies Disease is a progressive disease.  No treatment is 100 percent effective and traction and the VED are no exception so we would expect some men to have some progression after beginning with these devices just as we see after starting every other treatment.  That does not mean the treatment caused the progression.  In the Levine study, traction was found (to their surprise) to be effective in treating hourglass deformity.

A spring traction device allows for very specific tension that actually puts less stress on your penis over a much longer period so I deem it even safer than pumping with a VED. You have the ability to fairly accurately reduce tension and traction times.  There is also not the danger of drawing raw blood out of capillaries and into the tissue that many (including me) have at some times experienced with the VED.  Blood leaked into tissue is a known risk factor for formation of adhesions and scar tissue.

Hawk

[George999]

On the issue of VED v traction, I defer to Hawk's judgment.  He knows far more about both than I ever will.  So listen to him, not to me.  - George

[swolf]

I also dismiss rare individual reports of someone that progresses with Peyronies Disease after starting use of one of these devices.  Peyronies Disease is a progressive disease.  No treatment is 100 percent effective and traction and the VED are no exception so we would expect some men to have some progression after beginning with these devices just as we see after starting every other treatment.  That does not mean the treatment caused the progression.

I feel like this is a dangerous thing to say when there are many people out there reading it. After the VED caused further damage and I found it to not work for me, I continued trying because of how many times I had read that all it can do is help. If I had heard more reports beforehand of it not working for some people, that would have given me some needed perspective. I didn't go that much further in attempting to use it and I'm not blaming the lack of breadth of reports for anything that happened to me, but the reality of it is that simple conservative attempts at using the VED caused me further damage. It is a progressive condition and I probably would have kept progressing anyway, but that has little to do with drastic damage caused as a direct result of doing something. I'm not sure why you would dismiss reports like this.