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Welcome to Dr. Landon Trost - Directly answering member questions in the "Medical Professionals" section below the Treatment boards. https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,16512.0.html

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Author Topic: Medical articles on VED?  (Read 5651 times)

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TonySa

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Medical articles on VED?
« on: October 21, 2017, 08:31:46 PM »

Is there one thread w all the VED medical publications on this board like in the traction board?  I can't seem to find it.
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PxD 2 yrs 9/16.  Failed all treatment. 9/11/18: excision, grafting & implant Dr Karpman MtnView Ca, AMS CX 18cm + 3-1cm RTEs.
Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

NeoV

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2017, 12:06:17 AM »

Thanks for reminding me to do this, there is not one like that yet, but I'll compile it : )

skunkworks

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2017, 10:02:43 AM »

The role of vacuum pump therapy to mechanically straighten the penis in Peyronie’s disease - Raheem - 2010 - BJU International - Wiley Online Library - The role of vacuum pump therapy to mechanically straighten the penis in Peyronie's disease.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28923308 - Effect of Penile Traction and Vacuum Erectile Device for Peyronie's Disease in an Animal Model.

Vacuum erectile device for penile rehabilitation Lin H, Wang G, Wang R - J Integr Nephrol Androl - Vacuum erectile device for penile rehabilitation

Obviously the most relevant is the first one, and this was the method they used:

Over a 12-week period, the patients used a vacuum device without the constriction ring, for 10 min twice daily to stretch the penis. The cylinder was applied to the penis and slowly inflated until the penis was erect and maintained in this position for 3 min. The vacuum was then released to allow the erection to subside and the process repeated over a 10-min period.
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TonySa

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2017, 01:41:25 PM »

These are all very helpful. The first one has a protocol which is helpful. But the second and third one goi into great links explaining the oxygenation theory that the protocol on this website seems to utilize.  Thanks so much for posting...sticky would be helpful in the future fir others I'd think.
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PxD 2 yrs 9/16.  Failed all treatment. 9/11/18: excision, grafting & implant Dr Karpman MtnView Ca, AMS CX 18cm + 3-1cm RTEs.
Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

mike017

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2018, 04:12:38 PM »

I contacted Agusta Medical to purchase Soma three tube device with Peyronies forum discount..I was told as of Jan of this year they have discounted the website system to $249 ! Im ordering mine today 
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spyrosg

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2018, 07:58:03 AM »

The role of vacuum pump therapy to mechanically straighten the penis in Peyronie’s disease - Raheem - 2010 - BJU International - Wiley Online Library - The role of vacuum pump therapy to mechanically straighten the penis in Peyronie's disease.

Obviously the most relevant is the first one, and this was the method they used:

Over a 12-week period, the patients used a vacuum device without the constriction ring, for 10 min twice daily to stretch the penis. The cylinder was applied to the penis and slowly inflated until the penis was erect and maintained in this position for 3 min. The vacuum was then released to allow the erection to subside and the process repeated over a 10-min period.

Hi guys,

I really wonder how this article and especially the protocol used (keep the erection for 3 minutes !!! ) has not evoked any comments, controversies, etc.

This protocol is totally against the recommended practice in the forum, and also against the Augusta directions for use, where erection should be maintained for a few seconds (5 to 10) .

I 'm doing my VED sessions for 16 months now, unfortunately without any progress or positive results.  I tried during my last sessions to pump to full erection and maintain it for half a minute and it is really difficult, as it feels quite  uncomfortable.

I would really like to hear some opinions, especially from guys that did this ''3 minute erection'' protocol and (hopefully) had positive outcome.   

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popopo

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2018, 12:57:02 PM »

I spoke to dr.Kuehhas a couple days ago and he adviced me to buy a VED too and hold the erection for 2 minutes inside the ved as well. Then release fir 30sec and repeat.
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Age: 25
Date of onset: 17
Symptoms: sharp pains, numbness, change in shape/size, hourglassing and discolaration from jelqing/VED usage as a teen. Diagnosed with a venous leak and possible scarring.
Treatments tried: cialis, pentox and VED didnt help

TonySa

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2018, 02:40:25 PM »

I think full erection could be interpreted anything from 70 -100%. I’d keep it closer to 70% for 3 minutes.
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PxD 2 yrs 9/16.  Failed all treatment. 9/11/18: excision, grafting & implant Dr Karpman MtnView Ca, AMS CX 18cm + 3-1cm RTEs.
Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

TonySa

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2018, 11:01:39 AM »

Just be sure to stop/back off if any discomfort. 
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PxD 2 yrs 9/16.  Failed all treatment. 9/11/18: excision, grafting & implant Dr Karpman MtnView Ca, AMS CX 18cm + 3-1cm RTEs.
Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

Gutted

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2018, 02:48:34 PM »

Monty ... are you doing 3x3 because the published Raheem paper said do VED for a period of 10 mins with 3 min holds, so roughly 10 mins ??

If that's the case .... out of interest, what 'rest' period are you using between 'holds' to allow tissue relaxation and a full penile blood flow refresh??
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blackdiamond

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2018, 03:38:26 PM »

I have been doing a different protocol than what is described here...... My Doc is dedicated to Peyrones treatment and was part of the team to get Xiaflex approved..
I just started my 4th round of Xiaflex.....   My improvement thus far has gone from 75 degree bend to now 30 degrees. Hoping to get to 20 or 25 on this last round....
My Doc says my improvement has been startling...........
My VED protocol that I have been doing for 7 months is contrary to what is said here........

1-   10 seconds at 30% full erection
2-   10 seconds at 50%  ""   "
3-   1 minute full erection then release
4-   3 minutes full erection then release
5-   5 minutes full erection then release
        As stated I have been doing this for 7 months twice per day with NO problems..........  AND good results..........
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62 years old
Onset approx 2012
Treatment-- Xiaflex,VED,Manual stretching, Traction
Started with 75 Degree bend and after all treatment
went to 15 degrees........My Doc was impressed

TonySa

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2018, 04:16:31 PM »

Wow, congrats!  Any change in length or girth along w curve improvement?
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PxD 2 yrs 9/16.  Failed all treatment. 9/11/18: excision, grafting & implant Dr Karpman MtnView Ca, AMS CX 18cm + 3-1cm RTEs.
Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

blackdiamond

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2018, 11:01:39 PM »

Tshanchez
From when I started I def have some length as I've added spacers 3-4 times on my traction device ( Penimaster ) which I average 4.5 -5.5 hours per day.
I also notice that it is longer in the VED than before.....
I do believe girth has improved as well but I don't have measurements for that..

I have been more aggressive than my Doc has suggested with the traction and the manual stretching but he said if I don't have any problems then go for it.......
They suggested 3+ hours of traction ( I do many times 5 and sometimes 6 ) also the 30 second x3 manual stretching they said to do 3 times per day and I do more like 7-8...
Bottom line is that I have one chance to do this and have spent a ton of money and I want to make sure I get the best possible outcome....( without injury of course......)
I really believe the quality of the Doc is key as I have a friend who went thru all 4 rounds of Xiaflex with NO improvement........ Good Luck.........
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62 years old
Onset approx 2012
Treatment-- Xiaflex,VED,Manual stretching, Traction
Started with 75 Degree bend and after all treatment
went to 15 degrees........My Doc was impressed

blackdiamond

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2018, 10:42:36 AM »

Since I took on this monumental daily task I really don't sleep much........
I average 3.5 - 4.0 hours night. Now, I am retired so I get all my work in during the day.........But I must admit that I have to take a nap most days........
Like I said before, this is one shot so I want to make the best of it.......
If u want to get the best results in my opinion it takes lots of work and dedication..........
Good Luck to all.........Peyronies Disease sucks !!!!!
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62 years old
Onset approx 2012
Treatment-- Xiaflex,VED,Manual stretching, Traction
Started with 75 Degree bend and after all treatment
went to 15 degrees........My Doc was impressed

Crookid

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2018, 06:29:25 AM »

I have been doing a different protocol than what is described here...... My Doc is dedicated to Peyrones treatment and was part of the team to get Xiaflex approved..
I just started my 4th round of Xiaflex.....   My improvement thus far has gone from 75 degree bend to now 30 degrees. Hoping to get to 20 or 25 on this last round....

Black Diamond,
Who’s your dr? I am going to be starting Xiaflex injections soon and was planning on doing VED or traction or both but my dr said no. I really don’t want to go against her advice but want like you want to get the most I can out of this treatment.
Thanks!
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Gutted

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2018, 07:51:37 AM »

My guess would be that a 3 min hold is quite a long time, as the vacuum is essentially 'locking' in the initial round of blood it pulls in.

Therefore, you are in fact effectively cutting off the blood supply to your Penis for 3 mins. It is the fresh blood supply circulation that brings a significant amount of heat to the tissue and of course oxygen.

Imagine strapping a tight elastic band around your upper arm, it would do the same thing. Or when you wake up with 'pins and needles' in a hand or arm after laying on it and cutting the blood supply off causing tissue hypoxia.

Perhaps the tingling you described the other day was actually hypoxia created by such a long hold as well ?
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blackdiamond

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2018, 08:43:58 AM »

Crookid
My Doc is Michael Werner with offices in NYC and Purchase NY.......Don't know if you live around here but I think he's great......
He said he's done more Xiaflex treatments than anyone in the Northeast...... One problem is he only takes out of network insurance......
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62 years old
Onset approx 2012
Treatment-- Xiaflex,VED,Manual stretching, Traction
Started with 75 Degree bend and after all treatment
went to 15 degrees........My Doc was impressed

blackdiamond

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2018, 08:54:01 AM »

When I took this sites Protocol for VED to my Doc ( actually he has a specialist who just deals with the modeling portion ) he made me throw it away.
He said they have used the 1 minute, 3 minute, 5 minute hold time with hundreds of cases........and find it to be the best......I'm not promoting this....I'm just saying what I do.
Obviously everyone needs to determine what's right for them.......I personally have had no problems with it and have had much success......Good luck to all......
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62 years old
Onset approx 2012
Treatment-- Xiaflex,VED,Manual stretching, Traction
Started with 75 Degree bend and after all treatment
went to 15 degrees........My Doc was impressed

Gutted

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2018, 02:20:29 PM »

When I took this sites Protocol for VED to my Doc ( actually he has a specialist who just deals with the modeling portion ) he made me throw it away.
He said they have used the 1 minute, 3 minute, 5 minute hold time with hundreds of cases........

Six million dollar question, who is this Dr ?? Would like to mention him and this protocol to my Uro

Thanks in advance
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blackdiamond

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2018, 02:30:38 PM »

Gutted
I mentioned my Doc's specifics in a post above..........Dr. Michael Werner with offices in NYC and Purchase NY.......
The Peyronies Disease community is small so most of the top Doc's are familiar with each other......At least here in the U.S.
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62 years old
Onset approx 2012
Treatment-- Xiaflex,VED,Manual stretching, Traction
Started with 75 Degree bend and after all treatment
went to 15 degrees........My Doc was impressed

Gutted

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2018, 06:31:36 PM »

Thanks Blackdiamond. I think the top guys globally know each really, from papers and conferences etc

My Uro happens to be the lead Xiaflex Dr in Europe. He does all the teaching and conducted possibly the largest trial in Europe in an effort to get Xiaflex approved as a National Health Service treatment here in the UK.

It'll be interesting to see if they know each other and if there has been any discussion of your modelling protocol in the community
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Crookid

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2018, 08:50:12 PM »

Black Diamond,
Thanks for the info. I plan to show your protocol to my dr. I live in Michigan so the best Peyronie treatment around Here is at the u of M. The nurse practitioner and the uro did a stage III clinical trial with Ziaflex in which the NP did most of the injections. She does all of them now. When I asked her about using VED and or traction with the Xiaflex she said “No”. I’m kinda bummed about that since I’ve read so many positive results.
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TonySa

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2018, 09:31:39 AM »

More like 10-20 seconds.
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PxD 2 yrs 9/16.  Failed all treatment. 9/11/18: excision, grafting & implant Dr Karpman MtnView Ca, AMS CX 18cm + 3-1cm RTEs.
Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

blackdiamond

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2018, 01:55:03 PM »

Hey guys just an FYI....Went in for my measurements after my 4th round of Xia and with the 8 months of traction, VED, and manual stretching my curve went
from 75 degrees to 15 degrees !!!!!
Again I was quite aggressive with my modeling which my Doc attributes a lot of the improvement to......
Also again I do not promote my aggressive protocol to anyone.....It's just what worked for me.........
Now I'm working on my Erectile Dysfunction......Doc has me on 25 mg per day of DHEA for 4 days now......This is in hopes of bringing up my Testosterone which is low.....
My next step would be to start Shock Wave Therapy with the 50,000$ machine that my Doc has in his office....He states that its a series of !2 treatments and costs 1800$....
He proposes that the therapy promotes new blood vessels thus bringing more blood flow to the penis.......and says that he has had great success with it.......
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62 years old
Onset approx 2012
Treatment-- Xiaflex,VED,Manual stretching, Traction
Started with 75 Degree bend and after all treatment
went to 15 degrees........My Doc was impressed

TonySa

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2018, 02:07:02 PM »

Have you retried testosterone replacement?
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PxD 2 yrs 9/16.  Failed all treatment. 9/11/18: excision, grafting & implant Dr Karpman MtnView Ca, AMS CX 18cm + 3-1cm RTEs.
Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

blackdiamond

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2018, 12:41:50 PM »

Tsanchez
No I haven't tried T replacement.......My Doc wants me to but I'm trying to avoid it due to side affects........Who knows I may end up going there but want to try the other things first........
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62 years old
Onset approx 2012
Treatment-- Xiaflex,VED,Manual stretching, Traction
Started with 75 Degree bend and after all treatment
went to 15 degrees........My Doc was impressed

TonySa

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2018, 02:14:31 PM »

If you’re T is too low, nothing else like shockwave is likely to help.  Also, shouldn’t be any serious side effects if you’re replacing normal levels vs exceeding normal levels. 
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PxD 2 yrs 9/16.  Failed all treatment. 9/11/18: excision, grafting & implant Dr Karpman MtnView Ca, AMS CX 18cm + 3-1cm RTEs.
Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

blackdiamond

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2018, 12:40:10 AM »

Well I guess if the DHEA doesn't work I might consider doing T Therapy........That's what my Doc actually wanted me to do first.........
Dan my hand modeling was to grab the base of the shaft and the head and gently stretch for 30 seconds. Stop. then do it for a total of 3 times.......
I was instructed to pull it straight out and do three sets per day.........
I took a little more of an aggressive approach.......First, I did more like 7-8 sets per day...........
Also I started to get creative withe the angle of my stretch.......I would stretch against the curve.......then I saw That new traction device promoted here by the Mayo Clinic
which bends the penis even more than I was so I started to mimic what that device does and got more aggressive with the bending.......
Once again I must say I did this on my own not by my Doc's instruction........Many would say thats being too aggressive and advise against it......They could be right
but it worked for me.........Good Luck......
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62 years old
Onset approx 2012
Treatment-- Xiaflex,VED,Manual stretching, Traction
Started with 75 Degree bend and after all treatment
went to 15 degrees........My Doc was impressed

skunkworks

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2018, 12:42:43 AM »

My guess would be that a 3 min hold is quite a long time, as the vacuum is essentially 'locking' in the initial round of blood it pulls in.

Therefore, you are in fact effectively cutting off the blood supply to your Penis for 3 mins. It is the fresh blood supply circulation that brings a significant amount of heat to the tissue and of course oxygen.

Imagine strapping a tight elastic band around your upper arm, it would do the same thing. Or when you wake up with 'pins and needles' in a hand or arm after laying on it and cutting the blood supply off causing tissue hypoxia.

Perhaps the tingling you described the other day was actually hypoxia created by such a long hold as well ?

As far as evidenced based VED protocols are concerned, there is only one. This is it:

The role of vacuum pump therapy to mechanically straighten the penis in Peyronie’s disease - Raheem - 2010 - BJU International - Wiley Online Library - The role of vacuum pump therapy to mechanically straighten the penis in Peyronie's disease.

Quote
Over a 12-week period, the patients used a vacuum device without the constriction ring, for 10 min twice daily to stretch the penis. The cylinder was applied to the penis and slowly inflated until the penis was erect and maintained in this position for 3 min. The vacuum was then released to allow the erection to subside and the process repeated over a 10-min period.
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This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

spyrosg

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Re: Medical articles on VED?
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2018, 09:37:44 AM »

Hi guys,

I 've been sticking to the 3 min protocol for the last couple of months. The uncomfortness is something that you finally get used to.

I 'm not quite sure about positive results. When I 'm standing my penis looks better, bendwise, as the bend is somewhat more smooth and even, while I remember it to be more steep ... However, when I am laid in my back the bend is more intense, without looking any better than the past ... i don't know whether you also find these differences in bending, depending on the body poise.

Anyway, my point and problem is that after sticking to the three minutes protocol, the outer skin in the middle of my shaft has a picture, like many many blood cells having been broken, and as a result this part of the shaft is now much darker than the rest .. it is like I have a wide ring of dark red on ... I don't want to stop the VED, for psycological reasons mostly, and let the area heal. I don't know whether i should use any kind of cream to try to absorb what is looks to be a thin layer of deceased blood.

Does anyone had a similar issue and found any solution ?

Thnx in advance.
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