TESTOSTERONE, DHEA & other male hormons

[George999]

George:

Is being fat or overweight the problem that these guys have with low libido? I know several fat guys who seldom even think about sex with their partners and/or wives.

Old Man

Well, it certainly is not going to help.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100503135659.htm
http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v27/n7/full/0802292a.html
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2010/oct2010_Low-Testosterone-Promotes-Abdominal-Obesity-Aging-Men_01.htm

And, what makes it really bad is that obesity and low testosterone levels reinforce and intensify each other to the point that digging one's way out without medical intervention becomes futile.  And BOTH obesity AND low testosterone levels carry serious health risks.  - George

[hunchback]

The recommendations I am seeing also advise continuing to get regular testing for prostate cancer while on any type of testosterone elevating therapy.   But certainly it is important to consider ALL of the risks when embarking on any therapeutic regimen.

i have brought my testosterone levels up to normal/optimal for me over the last couple of years. my urologist knows about it and says its ok as long as my PSA stays normal for me (which will always be high because i inherited a large prostate instead of money from my father   ).

hormones are about a balance. taking just testosterone is a mistake without looking at the whole hormone profile. talk to women who are going through menopause and their doctor focuses on one hormone to replace. some of them say its worse and quite taking supplementation. if you increase one hormone it affects others.

i know i am going to die some day. with my family genes it may be a long time from now. i want to feel balanced and happy with meaning and purpose in my life. i really think balancing my hormones has contributed to my overall improved quality of life.

[George999]

hormones are about a balance. taking just testosterone is a mistake without looking at the whole hormone profile. talk to women who are going through menopause and their doctor focuses on one hormone to replace. some of them say its worse and quite taking supplementation. if you increase one hormone it affects others.

Very, very true.  This is why broad hormone testing is in order to be able to see how hormones are interacting and to make minor corrections where necessary.  - George

[jackp]

I agree whole heartily. When we have all our hormones in balance we feel better and have a much better quality of life.

I just had my 6 month hormone check and yearly PSA and Comprehensive Metabolic blood work. Everything is normal. My Testosterone is now stable with my 10 day injection schedule.  

Jackp
http://jackp-penileimplant.blogspot.com/

[voulezvous]

I've been giving myself testosterone shots on about a weekly basis now for over 2 years. It was prescribed for me by the same uro who did my implant surgery. I couldn't be more happy with the results and agree completely with the postings by JackP, Old Man  and George. I have noted shrinkage of my testicles, however, and have been warned to continue regular liver monitoring as well as my  HGB level  which, according to my regular physician, should remain under 52. He claims that TRT will "thicken" the blood. True?

There is no question in my mind that hormone levels in general are critical and that there is much misinformation about the utilization of testosterone specifically for older men. My overall stamina and physical strength have maintained - if not improved - since I began my regimen. Thankfully, it does seem as though the concept of "useable" vs. overall levels is getting more accepted in the medical fields.

[goodluck]

Interestng what Trevor shared about the lower body work outs.  One could extract that just taking long walks could be of help with building Testosterone.

I know the herb Tribulous has been used to help raise testosterone.  It raises DHEA which is a precursor to T and ohter hormones.

I have never used it but the one person I know who did said it greatly increased his libido.

I would certainly look into an herbal approach before using a synthetic hormone.  

[George999]

When it comes to prostate cancer risk, I would advise all guys, especially those using testosterone, OR testosterone boosting strategies, to take iodine.  Iodine insufficiency is now coming on to the radar as a regulator of hormonally stimulated cancers.  Iodoral is the brand that has been used with success in clinical testing.  There are two types on the market.  One is hi-potency, the other is low.  The one you want is the low potency 5/7.5mg version, for daily use.  There is a huge likelihood that taking this product will lower your prostate cancer risk significantly.

Iodine deficiency is a recognized risk factor in the development of cancer of the breast, prostate, and probably the ovary and endometrium.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james37.htm

http://www.scribd.com/doc/1959949/IODINE-Solution-to-Healthproblems

http://theiodineproject.webs.com/cancerandiodine.htm

http://arizonaadvancedmedicine.com/articles/prostate.html

The whole relationship of dietary iodine with endocrine cancers is just now being investigated.  The intriguing factor is that Japan, where dietary iodine levels are very high, has extremely low rates of breast AND prostate cancers.  There has already been a clinical study finding that higher iodine intake SIGNIFICANTLY lowers rates of breast cancer AND other breast diseases.   There has already been a clinical study finding insignificant benefits from iodine for prostate cancer, BUT the study's authors stress that they suspect that higher iodine intake than what was considered in the study might well make those benefits meaningful.  Since there is no risk from increasing iodine intake by a small amount, it is relatively cheap insurance considering the dramatic Japanese track record with iodine being the chief suspect at this point.

Something interesting to pursue around here would be to see the affect on PSA levels among those of us who might be giving iodine a try.

- George

[George999]

On this theme, before all the modern treatments came along, old time doctors would actually give iodine for breast cancer patients AND with some degree of success.  - George

[jackp]

George / Old Man

The way my wife was raised as a child she did not get any salt or salt with iodine. At 20 she had to have a thyroid and goiter removed. It was pre cancer but luckily she was fine.

In about 1985 her thyroid was out of balance and she had to go to the hospital and drink a radio active iodine mixture that helped her for many years. Now she has to take thyroid medicine every day.

She still does not use salt and fusses at me when I use a little. If she had only had salt with iodine in her diet as a child she may not have had all these problems.

My 2 cents.

Jack

[George999]

Many people these days are shunning salt for health reasons.  While salt is not believed to cause problems like hypertension, it can exacerbate them.  But fortunately there is Iodoral which provides an excellent daily helping of iodine sans salt for a very reasonable price.  And it provides iodine in two distinct forms which are both used by the body in differing ways.  - George

[goodluck]

Jackp is dead on.  If his wife had some iodine in her diet along with some selenium she likely could have avoided all of those thyroid issues.

The mid west around the great lakes was know as the goiter belt.  The soil lacked iodine and they did not get much sea food if any.  As a result many developed goiters.

Salt and idodine have become very controversial and for different reasons.

I have read enough to convince me that Unrefined salt is better that refined salt.  Common table salt is bleached and processed to make it white in color.  Some iodine is often added along with anti caking agents.  As a result all of the trace minerals are lost and the anticaking agents add things you don't want in your system, like aluminum.

Unrefined salt includes all of the trace minerals and no additives.  There is not much iodine in it so you do need to look else where to get it.  Some will argue that unrefined salt will not raise BP but refined will.  I don't really know.  The term sea salt is often used by food packesgers these days and is a bit misleasing.  They imply their product is healthier as a result.  This is really irrelevant.  What they should be disclosing is wheather their salt is Refined or UNREFINED.  Most all salt is from the sea although some is mined.  Celtic sea salt has a good reputation as an Unrefined brand and Real Salt is a good unrefined salt that is mined.

Iodine and iodide is very improtant for your thyroid, gonads, breasts, prostate and other organs.

Iodoral is a combination of Iodine and iodide. It is modeled after Lugol's solution which is in a liquid form and has been around for over 150 years. Lugol's solution is much more cost effective than Iodoral.  But some like it for its convenient pill form.

If you have a thyoird issue iodine can be very controversial.  Most of western medecine will tell you to avoid iodine if you have Hashimottos disease which is an autoimmune condition that attacts the thyroid.
Many nauturpaths take a very different approach and will have you take iodine via kelp or Lugols or Iodoral. Again this is very controversial.
I will reference people to the OPTOMOX website where you can read many research papers on the use of Iodine/iodide.

I will also refer people to Dr. David Brownstien's book on Iodine, Why you need it , Why you can't live with out it. I won't get into it as it is on Amazon where you can read many reviews on it.

I also caution those who may take kelp supplements.  UC Davis did a study of Kelp supplements found at health food stores and found that most of those tested had mercury levels above what the FDA allows.  My point is know your source and don't just buy the cheapest brand in the store.
If it is sourced from a non industrialized area it will likely be fine.

[hunchback]

Since I am used to using salt on my food for all these many years, just cannot bring myself to eat food without at least a small amount for seasoning.

about 15 years ago i drove through greenriver, UT and stopped at a restaurant. they had a salt on the table that was the best I've ever tasted. i bought some because it was interesting.

I hardly ever use salt, but if you want taste this is worth trying http://realsalt.com/ every other salt to me tastes bitter after using this stuff.

[mfwg]

The idea that androgenic hormones may help curvature isn't completely unfounded, though unlikely in older patients. There was a study published in 2001 that showed Androstanolone Treatment for Congenital Curvature of the penis lead to a 30-100% improvement. However, what they noticed was that it improved the younger patients significantly while the older patients didn't improve much at all.

Here is the abstract:

Androstanolone Treatment for Congenital Penile Curvature
C. Catuogno, G. Romano

Department of Urology, G. Jazzolino Hospital, ViboValentia, Italy

Objectives: To test the etiological hypotheses of congenital penile curvature (CPC) and to infer the possible therapeutic approaches. Materials and Methods: Seventy patients affected by CPC were enlisted for the present study: 37 with left curvature, 21 with ventral curvature, 11 with left ventral-lateral curvature, and 1 with right curvature. All patients under the age of 21 years were encouraged to take local medical therapy with alcohol androstanolone gel in a dosage of 0.15 mg/cm2 of surface area. Group A (17–43 years of age) consisted of patients who refused medical therapy and decided to solve their problem with surgery. They underwent Nesbit's operation and were given a contralateral biopsy of the tunica albuginea at the same time. Cytoplasmic androgen receptors (CARs) were quantified in the tunica albuginea of both cavernous bodies (CBs). Group B consisted of 26 patients aged between 4 and 21 years who were given local medical therapy with androstanolone in alcohol gel. They underwent a maximum of 3 therapy cycles each lasting 2 months with a 1-month suspension between each. Group C consisted of 9 patients (27–53 years of age) who were fathers of 9 group B patients. These adults were also affected by penile curvature and taken into consideration as a control group because we have observed three spontaneous corrections of penile curvature in puberty. Results: CARs research in group A and in 6 group B patients under the age of 20 revealed a 2–5 times reduction on the concave part of the cavernous body compared to the contralateral one. This difference progressively decreased in older patients. In group B, 14 patients aged between 4 and 15 years and 1 aged 17 (53.8%) were treated with a local androstanolone therapy and the result was a regression in the curvature between 30 and 100%. Another 9 patients aged between 17 and 21 years did not show any improvement despite androstanolone treatment. Conclusions: The results show a 2–5 times reduction in CARs on the hypoplasic cavernous body of young male patients. These differences progressively decreased in older patients. The positive results of the androstanolone therapy in patients under the age of 15 and the negative ones in older patients are certainly related to the quantity of CARs present on the tunica albuginea.

[james1947]

I just read that:

Testosterone Therapy Doesn't Boost Prostate Cancer Risk, Study Finds

The Testosterone & Prostate Cancer Risk was discussed in this topic.

http://news.yahoo.com/testosterone-therapy-doesnt-boost-prostate-cancer-risk-study-151410947.html

James

[jackp]

James

I have a copy of the study by Dr. Morgantaler of Mens Health Boston that shows how the myth about testosterone therapy will cause prostate cancer got started and how he proves that testosterone replacement therapy(TRT) will not cause prostate cancer.

There are many men now going on TRT after successful prostate surgery.

The study is about 18 pages long if you want a copy I will be glad to email it to you.

Jackp
http://jackp-penileimplant.blogspot.com/  

[james1947]

Jack

Thank you for Dr.Mrgentaler study.

A summary of the study made in the UK that I have posted the link is:

Researchers looked at nearly 1,400 men receiving testosterone replacement therapy for up to 20 years, and found that 14 cases of prostate cancer developed over the study period.
That number equates to one prostate cancer diagnosis yearly per 212 men; in the general population of U.K. men between ages 65 and 69, rates have been reported to be slightly less than one in 200 per year.

It is just reinforcing Dr.Morgentaler study.

James

[George999]

There is actually increasing evidence that *low* testosterone is a culprit when it comes to *causing* prostate cancer.  Prostate cancer is definitely associated with obesity and one of the side effects of obesity is low testosterone AND higher than normal oestrogen levels.

On my last visit to my uro I let him know that I was taking high amounts of DHEA and that I was concerned about watching my prostate.  His response was that he and his fellow practitioners in the group have had a number of patients on androgens for a long time and have NEVER seen any noticeable issues with prostate cancer resulting from that.

Apparently the whole concern with testosterone started because doctors assumed that because estrogen is linked to breast cancer, the same must be true of testosterone and prostate cancer.  However, now it is becoming clear that even the breast cancer estrogen link might be bogus since the problem may, in fact, be related to the use of SYNTHETIC estrogen rather than natural human estrogen.  All studies using natural human estrogen have NOT shown a significant breast cancer link and those using the estriol form have not shown any breast cancer link.

The reality is that there are still a lot of very costly medical myths that are depriving patients of optimal results in their search for a healthy lifestyle.  Not a lot has changed since the days when doctors were exhorting their patients to abandon butter and lard for trans fat laden stick margarine and Crisco.  I am convinced that a lot of medical *science* is driven by big bucks marketing by corporations with the means to perform studies and manipulate the results to their pleasure and needs.

- George

[GS]

George,

Do you think there could be any harm is using a testosterone gel along with DHEA?

GS

[George999]

I think this is really a question for the doctor to answer.  I certainly don't see any conflict, but when it comes to something as serious as testosterone itself, I think it is appropriate for a physician to evaluate the issue.  - George

George,

Do you think there could be any harm is using a testosterone gel along with DHEA?

GS

[mike67]

This appears to be a appropriate thread for my question .
I have just been prescribed ANDROGEL 50MG/5 G packets to be applied daily to shoulder/upper arm. This due to a blood reading that is in the low range.
I have read all the instructions and gone over all the many possible side effects. I believe these are by and large rare although some not so rare.
Can anyone here tell me about their particular experience with this product. What did it do for you , how long did you have to use it and what sort of side effects did you experience?
Thanks

[pizzaman]

I was on Androgel for a couple months, but was still feeling bad. I ended up going to a very well known male hormone replacement expert, and he has me on twice weekly injection of T, and I'm doing a lot better.

The gels didn't work well for me because I have low SHBG, so it would result in extremely high levels of T after administration, which would cause huge estrogen spikes. Estrogen basically counteracts the T, so I often felt almost as bad as I did at rock bottom T. Anyway, I felt good for the first couple months, but around that time, one's endogenous production shuts down, so then you're relying exclusively on your medication. That's the point at which many guys start to experience problems. Even if the transdermal T works for you, it's likely you'll have to increase your dosage at that point.

Another important part of the male testosterone replacement protocol is HCG, which is injectable only. As you use exogenous T, your body will stop producing LH, the hormone that tells your testicles to do several things, like make T. HCG is a lutenizing hormone (LH) analogue, so using it keeps your testicles from atrophying, keeps them producing sperm, some testosterone (and intratesticular testosterone is very important for the health of a man's entire pelvic region), and other important hormones like pregnenolone. Also, there are LH receptors all over the body, including the brain, so LH plays many roles throughout the body that we're just now starting to understand.

As for side effects, I really haven't had any except for estrogen and DHT related sides, which are more under control now with injections. There are plenty of benefits though. I've actually been getting night time erections again, have some libido back, feel much better mentally, more energy, etc.
BTW, how old are you and what were your levels?

[mike67]

I turn 70 in November. I had a reading from blood test of 12 . The range is 6-27. Not sure if that is ml of something or what as I don't have a copy of the report.
What do you mean by "feeling bad" ?  I feel OK . I just commented to my Uro that I thought my drive wasn't what it should be or used to be and he started me on the T replacement . I had plaque incision & graft surgery in Feb. I am now on traction .

I don't see myself staying on the Androgel for much more than 3 months. Not sure what to expect from it .

I appreciate your comments but don't quite understand what it all means and if it would apply to me.

Thanks for your reply.

Mike

[George999]

The problem with a LOT of these hormone tests is that each lab uses a different way of measuring levels.  This makes it very hard for the patient to navigate the system.  - George