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Author Topic: Does the scar tissue ever disappear  (Read 5001 times)

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Dared

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Does the scar tissue ever disappear
« on: December 17, 2015, 04:43:38 AM »

Does it ever disappear with persistent traction and pentox etc. Or at least has anyone seen significant reduction in size of the plaques?
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Jonbinspain

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Re: Does the scar tissue ever disappear
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2015, 10:57:15 AM »

Disappear?  Interesting question. I'm not sure if that's entirely possible as you're talking about turning scar tissue back in to normal healthy tissue!

I think in the case of Peyronies it's more a case of trying to soften the scar tissue and remodel it into something that behaves in proximation to normal tissue. But I think once scar tissue, always scar tissue. If anybody knows differently, please correct me.
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Dared

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Re: Does the scar tissue ever disappear
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2015, 07:23:01 PM »

That sounds about right Jonbinspain. Ive definitely noticed remodeling through traction and my dick has good elasticity because of it. Now if only it would disappear... lol
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krazylord

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Re: Does the scar tissue ever disappear
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2015, 10:58:03 PM »

There are studies where internal scarring (scar tissue) in the corpora does get healed and dissolved after long-term dosis of PDE5 inhibitors and other suplements. There are also studies where stem cells make calcified plaques (scar tissue) disappear. So yes, it is possible, but the medicine is on its infants.

I think in less than 5 years there will be effective proved fibrosis (scar tissue) treatments.
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james1947

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Re: Does the scar tissue ever disappear
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2016, 04:19:18 AM »

My question is somehow late, but can you krazylord give us the links to the studies about scar tissues dissolving?
VED, Pentox and low dose Cialis softened my plaques, they are still there. If they will disappear, I will be strait again :)

James
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Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

PeetyPeet

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Re: Does the scar tissue ever disappear
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2016, 02:56:06 AM »

Yes, I would also be very interested to see these studies. My understanding of long term use of PDE5 inhibitors is that it will prevent further fibrosis by helping maintain blood flow and elasticity. They don't have any anti-fibrotic qualities in and of themselves, and won't 'cure' fibrosis that has already developed.

I always assumed fibrosis is there for good. You can improve things slightly using VED, traction etc, as the body creates new healthy cells among the fibrotic cells in reaction to the stretching action (at least that's my understanding based on what I've read on this forum), but I don't think it can disappear/ be reabsorbed.

There's also been some discussion on the forum in recent months of magnesium chloride 'curing' peyronies, and magnesium deficiency being a potential cause. I'm dubious of what anti-fibrotic properties magnesium would have. 
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james1947

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Re: Does the scar tissue ever disappear
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2016, 05:49:09 PM »

So PeetyPeet, we both waiting  krazylord to give us a link to the studies regarding the scaring that dissolved :)

James
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Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

skunkworks

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Re: Does the scar tissue ever disappear
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2016, 06:56:13 PM »

The Role of PDE5 Inhibitors in Penile Septal Scar Remodeling: Assessment of Clinical and Radiological Outcomes - Chung - 2011 - The Journal of Sexual Medicine - Wiley Online Library

"and resolution of septal scar were recorded in 24 patients (69%) compared to three patients (10%) in the control group."


Striking regression of subcutaneous fibrosis induced by high doses of gamma rays using a combination of pentoxifylline and alpha-tocopherol: an exp... - PubMed - NCBI

"However, significant softening and shrinking of this block were noted in the pigs dosed with PTX + alpha-tocopherol 13 weeks after treatment started and at autopsy, when mean regression was approximately 30% for length, approximately 50% for width and depth, and approximately 70% for area and volume."
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This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

PeetyPeet

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Re: Does the scar tissue ever disappear
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2016, 01:51:32 AM »

Thanks Skunkworks. So, PDE5 inhibitors do seem to reduce, as well as prevent, scar tissue.

It's a shame the discussion sections don't seem to be accessible as these abstracts don't make it clear whether PDE5 Inhibitors are anti-fibrotics in their own right, or if it's simply the increased blood flow that is causing the effect. I also notice that in the second article the group who experienced scar reduction were also subjected to gamma radiation.

I have fibrosis of the corpora and have been taking Cialis 10mg a day for 6 months now. Alas, no significant change.  :(

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james1947

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Re: Does the scar tissue ever disappear
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2016, 02:46:55 AM »

Thank you skunkworks for the PDE5 inhibitors link.
From the study:
Quote
35 men received tadalafil 2.5 mg daily over a 6-month period

&
Quote
...complaint of decreased penile rigidity (66%) was the predominant feature
The sentence mean that the treatment induced Erectile Dysfunction? Or reduction in the plaque rigidity?
Somehow confused  :(
Quote
Low-dose daily tadalafil is a safe and effective treatment option in septal scar remodeling
I agree
Started low dose Tadalafil at August 26, 2011, with different additions and experiments, mainly VED and Pentox, still continuing today VED and Tadaflafil, it mean 54 months. I don't know what helped me to eliminate hourglasses (I suppose VED) and to soften my plaques (I suppose the combination) but the improvements on other fields were not much (bent, curve, Erectile Dysfunction)
They are stating also:
Quote
The length of time from onset to presentation was 22 (6 to 40) months
I started with the treatment 30 months after the onset, so I am OK in the group.
If they were telling us who the treatment helped related to the months from the onset was more helpful.
The paper is from May 2011, wandering why nothing followed if it is was so successful

James
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Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Jonbinspain

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Re: Does the scar tissue ever disappear
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2016, 05:01:21 PM »

As I think posted on another thread, in my recent conversations with Dr Kuehhas I learned that he's a big proponent of Cialis as effective treatment for Peyronies.

He was, however, far less positive about Pentox. Not totally negative, but very sceptical.
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skunkworks

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Re: Does the scar tissue ever disappear
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2016, 03:29:25 AM »

I also notice that in the second article the group who experienced scar reduction were also subjected to gamma radiation.

The group in the second article were pigs. The radiation was used to induce the scars specifically so they could test the scar regression capabilities of pentox+vit e...
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This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

PeetyPeet

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Re: Does the scar tissue ever disappear
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2016, 11:22:26 AM »

Ah my apologies, thanks for the correction :)
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gringoviajero

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Re: Does the scar tissue ever disappear
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2016, 08:24:16 PM »

Just stumbled across this old question of scar tissue remaining or disappearing.  This was discussed also in Alternative Treatments in December 2016.  See posts around the 10th to 12th.  Here's a video of Dr. Lue being interviewed and saying we cannot as yet remove scar tissue, just soften it as JonBinSpain has surmised.

Latest Videos
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