Serrapeptase and Magnesium Citrate

[auss1emike]

Hello all
I was speaking with my local natural therapist (who does seem very knowledgable) a couple of days ago and he has recommended that I take a course of Serrapeptase and Magnesium Citrate (which I am already taking with Ubiquinol and l-arginine). The Serrapeptase must have an enteric coating to allow absorption through the intestines.

I know the Mg Citrate is promising and has made me feel a lot better in general.

My research on Serrapeptase so far looks promising. Has anyone else had any success with
Serrapeptase.

Has anyone combined Serrapeptase with Magnesium?

Should I stop with the Ubiquinol C10?

Aussiemike

[NeoV]

EDITED: I retract my statement about nattokinase and serrapeptase. I have no idea what they do but there certainly are no studies on it and Peyronie's that I know of.
Personally, just a little bit of nattokinase makes my penis feel very elastic.

[blooming]

I just read an interesting article on systemic enzymes and Peyronie's. This is the 2nd such article I have come across which reinforces my thoughts that Peyronies Disease is primarily an inflammatory issue. Based on that I am currently on proteolytic enzymes plus magnesium chloride. I urge everyone to read this article and come to your own conclusion. In earlier posts I have stated that, according to Linus Pauling, all disease is deficiency based. Controlling inflammation is a priority, Magnesium deficiency is a component of inflammation, as well as poor diet, stress and lifestyle choices. Systemic enzymes and magnesium are easily supplemented.


I also have psoriasis, itchy and crusty patches that come and go on my forehead for 10 years now which is an inflammatory issue. In 5 weeks on Mag chloride my forehead is as smooth as a baby's butt.  Nothing else has helped.

Please read this article Peyronie's Disease Inflammation & Systemic Enzyme Therapy | Peyronie's Symptoms | Natural Peyronie's Treatments | Serracor-NK especially page 2. Below are excerpts:

Peyronie's disease is an inflammatory disease related to the tunica albuginea. Microvascular trauma, which can result from injury or wear and tear on particularly vulnerable areas, initiates the wound healing process with the accumulation of fibrin on the tunica albuginea. In someone with Peyronie's, the healing mechanisms are abnormal and inflammation remains persistent. In some cases, this inflammation is somewhat reversible. However, in severe cases, the fibrin deposit becomes a hardened plaque.

In some, physical trauma or injury to the penis is evident; however, for many, it is difficult to identify a specific occurrence. It is believed that typical use in sexually active men can cause microvascular damage which may initiate inflammation and fibrin deposition. The reason for an overreaction of the inflammatory response in some men remains unknown. There are a number of factors that can contribute to poor wound healing and may play a role in Peyronies disease.
These include: Vasculitis: inflammation of blood or lymphatic vessels, which can lead to the formation of scar tissue

Peyronie's Disease and Scar Tissue
Supplementing with fibrinolytic (fibrin digesting) enzymes can be beneficial in limiting and even reducing the amount of scar tissue buildup. The most notable fibrinolytic enzymes are nattokinase, an enzyme extracted from the Japanese fermented soybean food Nattō, and serrapeptase, an enzyme extracted from silkworms.1,2

Nattokinase is particularly effective because it enhances the body's natural ability to fight excess fibrin deposits in several different ways. It dissolves fibrin directly and appears to enhance the body's natural production of both plasmin and other clot-dissolving enzymes such as urokinase.
The efficacy of serrapeptase was evaluated in a multicenter, double-blind, placebo-controlled . . . It was concluded serrapeptase has anti-inflammatory, anti-edemic and fibrinolytic activity ( the ability of some proteolytic enzymes to dissolve the fibrin in blood clots facilitating wound healing) and acts rapidly on localized inflammation.5

Reducing the amount of fibrin deposition is only one aspect of how systemic enzymes can function. Chronic inflammation is often the root cause of a number of conditions and controlling the inflammation process can help alleviate symptoms.

Bromelain, a proteolytic enzyme extracted from pineapple, has also been found to be effective in reducing inflammation by blocking chemical signals called cytokines, which promote and increase inflammation.1

Systemic enzymes have successfully demonstrated the ability to reduce signs of pain throughout the body. Serrapeptase has been evaluated in numerous studies for its effectiveness in pain reduction and showed favorable results.
One study was conducted comparing the efficacy of two proteolytic enzymes in the treatment of venous inflammatory disease. The efficacy of Serrapeptase and Seaprose S (a protease) was assessed using good or excellent results as the measure of effective treatment. Serrapeptase was effective in 65 percent of the cases compared to 85 percent for Seaprose S. Serrapeptase specifically demonstrated a 63 percent reduction in spontaneous pain and 57 percent reduction in pain on pressure (pain at the tip of erection???). Though Seaprose S had better overall results, both enzymes were effective. It can thus be confirmed that both enzymes were effective in patients with inflammatory venous disease.13 (Note: Seaprose S has since been withdrawn from the market). This last sentence is puzzling since my supplement contains Seaprose?!?

I am careful to say this but my nodules seem to be smaller after 5 weeks on Mag/enzyme combo (I have a "hourglass" near the base of my penis). My wife has commented on my penis depth during penetrative sex but I will wait to comment on this for at least 5 more weeks. Please read the link.
Blooming

[NeoV]

Blooming, how is your treatment going?

I noticed nattokinase makes my penis very elastic, almost normal looking and I don't know if I believe it's just placebo or what.. It's given me some other interesting effects too, from what it seems.  

[Anxietyguy10]

NeoV - Can you explain what you mean by elastic? Have you seen improvements by using Serrapeptase and Magnesium Citrate? I'm curious if you've seen plaque shrinkage or softening due to these supplements?

[blooming]

Report on my use of Serrapeptase(120,000 spu) and  nattokinase (2,000 fu) twice per day and mag chloride (1000 mg per day tablets): I have 3 nodules 1 inch from the base that form my hourglass. My nodules have reduced in size but I still have an hourglass. I am cautiously optimistic about the reduction since starting this October 1st. I do massage the nodules every morning. I am giving this regimen till October 2016 before I make a final judgement. But I am pleased so far.

[NeoV]

Blooming, be careful no to press on the scar itself. This has been believed to make scarring worse in Peyronie's, but maybe you found reason to do it anyway? I do think general massage for the penis is a good thing if it is very gentle, but I might not massage the actual plaques. Great new thought, that something is working for you!

By elastic I mean the opposite of hard flaccid, longer, hanging better and softer. I have a massive bundle of veins or cords under my scrotum and I'm hoping the enzymes will help with those as well.

I haven't tried magnesium citrate but I am curious. Nattokinase and serrapeptase make it harder for my penis to be in a deformed state during sitting, after sex, or any time. I cannot tell if it has done anything to reduce the plaques but I never really have that goal in mind, but rather just assume they will soften and shrink when my penis's overall health is better and focus on supplements and foods like these. Personally the enzymes makes a lot of sense to me, but it does not dissolve scars on its own or directly. The anti-inflammatory and anti-coagulant effects are very real, making them a very good choice in my book. Personally, I think that my case of Peyronie's and many other men's comes from hematomas trapped in the penis which result in scarring after having them repetitively or ones that are particularly bad. I think the enzymes clear those out. I have not had inflammation since starting the enzymes. I have tried a bunch of supplements for edema as well, but nattokinase seems to be making my edema go away, and though I hesitate to jump to conclusions, there is some good evidence as to why that may be happening.

[FriskyDingo]

blooming,

NeoV and I have had an extensive conversation regarding nattokinase and serrapeptase in the 'Alternative Treatments for Peyronie's Disease' thread.

I am happy you have seen some good results with the enzymes. I would suggest experimenting with increasing the dose slowly. I think the 'mainstream' dosage guidelines are subpar. I see good results with 480,000 units serrapeptase and 6,000 units nattokinase once daily. I have and will take a higher dosage (up to 1million units serrapeptase), and the higher dosages were even more effective. Search youtube for serrapeptase reviews, and look for the legitimate ones where its an average joe doing a simple log of his experiences with it. There are some fairly motivational videos out there about people's candid experience with the enzymes.

The trick also may be to stick with them for 6-12months to see permanent effects in fibrosis reduction. I am not certain this is true or have any evidence of it working for this, but there are a lot of claims out there suggesting great long term effects. Hell, I was skepitcal about its ability to reduce pain, and within days the enzymes did just that. So maybe there is some validity to their ability to reduce fibrosis of a long period of time.

Lastly, in my experience, one should not take the enzymes near bed time. For some reason, they make me very alert and clear minded. Its not like a caffeine buzz, but its enough to keep me from being able to fall asleep.

As for Mag Chloride... I swear by this supplement. Not really for peyronie's (although I believe it will help in a way), but for general health. I use to get extremely painful leg cramps in my sleep. Literally the day I started taking 400mg Mag chloride the cramps went away and I have not had once since.

Let us know if you increase your dosage and what results you see. I will do the same.

[stormy]

So, serrapeptase and nattokinase are legitimate options?  

[NeoV]

Serrapeptase and nattokinase have never been shown to reduce Peyronie's plaque, or any scars in any studies that I'm aware of. Perhaps there was as study on fibroids and cirrhosis showing benefits, but I can't seem to find them and I am not sure of their validity.

Regardless, these supplements benefit you in a different way, which is by reducing thrombosis and thinning out the blood. They basically reduce the "sticky blood" us prone to Peyronie's have. They work a bit different than other blood thinners in that they allow blood to flow more easily through your body by dissolving blood clots. The first time I took nattokinase in pill form I couldn't feel my heart beat at all at night, and my penis was the most elastic I had ever felt it. I continue to eat 1 to 2 packets of natto daily and I think the effect is still there, though not as intense as when I took the pills.

It is a common theory that hematoma's and thrombosis cause Peyronie's, or at least happen before the scarring is created. Inflammation becomes trapped within the penis and anything that thins out the blood or breaks up blood clots is useful for preventing this.

Always be careful mixing blood thinners, since they can cause brain bleeds or other bad things when combined. Be warned and choose wisely.

[FriskyDingo]

I concur with NeoV. I believe the claims out there that the enzymes can reduce scarring or plaques is false. However, I notice a very real decrease in pain when I take them, and this has been reported by other people with different injuries. As NeoV said, I think they work by thinning the blood and dissolving blood clots, which may lead to increase blood flow in areas of injury where excessive clotting often occurs.

I took the enzymes for 4 months straight and stopped for a month. After the month off of them pain started to return. Two days back onto the enzymes and the pain went away again. The pain is really reduced to a level non-existence, and I often go the whole day without being aware of an injury down there.

[stormy]

Thank you.  Just getting started with all this.  So much information.  So many options.  Do I go to a local urologist first, or find one that specializes in PEyronies?  insurance coverage/cost is always a consideration.  

[FriskyDingo]

To be honest neither the general urologist or the peyronie's specialists in my area offered any kind of help. That is not the case for all doctors, but unless they are one of the big reputable names discussed on this forum I personally wouldnt waste my time or money with them.  

[blooming]

Update of my trial with Serrapeptase and nattokinase combinations. I had to stop this after a few weeks due to severe muscle cramps in my legs. In my profession I walk up to 12 miles per day and I could not function on this combination. Sorry for the long time between posts but my seasonal business has now slowed down to allow me to read this forum again. I will be re starting the magnesium chloride again also.

[FriskyDingo]

blooming, I have taken high doses of both enzymes for over 4 months now and haven't really had a side effect. Did you stop the magnesium when you started these? In my experience a magnesium deficiency causes leg cramps. I use to get severe leg cramps at night until I supplemented with magnesium glycinate / lycinate, then never had a leg cramp again.

[blooming]

i did not stop the magnesium, however I did read that the enzymes clear protein that is circulating in the bloodstream. My son has me on a protein supplementation that has been remarkable, so I was concerned about reading that. And the leg muscle cramps were severe. More than cramps I had years ago.

[FriskyDingo]

interesting. Well as I know too anecdotal evidence is best and if its giving you a reaction then you know what you need to do. As for the protein... protein is an extremely vague category. The enzymes are supposed to clear dead tissue (made of proteins), not free form amino acids or functional proteins in the blood stream.  

[blooming]

good to know, thanks for your input. I'll keep reading and learning.