Congenital Curvature or Peyronies Disease

[LWillisjr]

Since several members have posted recently with questions about a congenital curve, I thought maybe this topic would warrant it's own thread on this forum. I must admit that I m not familiar with this topic and my own interest has increased in this area. I did some quick research on the topic and came across the following points:
1. Congenital curves are from a birth deformity
2. Congenital curves are generally a result of a difference in size or shape of the Corpora Cavernosa
3. Congenital curves can be in any direction (left, right, up, or down)
4. Curves can be as much as 90 degrees !!
5. While not painful, congenital curves can cause discomfort during sex with your partner

So now it is at least more clear to me why there is so much confusion between congenital curvatures and someone with Peyronies Disease. Both cases would present themselves in a very similar way. I think the defining point is that Peyronies is defined as having a palpable plaque on the tunica. I also discovered that many men have had straightening of congenital curvature and the technique is primarily a variation of the well known placation or Nesbit procedure. Excision and grafting would not be a surgical option as there is no plaque to excise.

I think it would lso be interesting to determine if other Peyronies therapy techniques like stretching and VED use would lead to any straightening of a congenital curve. I'm interested in other's thoughts.

[Warthog]

Me as well!!  After I found out that I didnt have Peyronies and now in which I hope its a congenital curve instead and not something else.  I'd really be interested in knowing any treatment for it.  Isnt the nesbit procedure a surgical operation still?  I dont want ANY knife near mine!!  I'm hoping a traction or VED will prove to be hopeful!

Thanks and good idea Willis!

[terryd]

Willis    I guess what your saying is if you dont have palpable plaque you can fill you dont have peyronies! Iv never felt nothing in my penis no pain just  the sharp bend and shortening iv had about 6 years never been to uro.Thanks

[Tim468]

It ain't complicated.

Congenital means you were born with it.

If it "happened", it's Peyronie's until proven otherwise - pain is usually a part of it but not always.

Anyone whose penis takes a new shape owes it to themselves to go to a urologist!

As for straightening out a congenital curvature, those who try to enlarge their penises say it is hard to do with their techniques (VED, traction, jelqing). But perhaps it has simply not been expolred enough.

Tim

[Warthog]

Yeah, for me, if that really is what I have, I just want to know what treatments are available besides surgery.  It seems like there is even less you can do than if it was peyronies!

[wayne999]

Is congenital curvature usually because of a birth defect in the size of the chambers etc?  Because I have a waisting effect and some mild thickening in the tissue in the bottom 1/3 of my unit (as well as what i think are 2 plaques on either side). Is it possible to be born with thickening (fibrosis?) or plaques?

I am unsure about whether i have congenital or Peyronies Disease.

[newguy]

I would think it very, very unlikely that a person would be born with plaques. Has your condition existed for as long as you can remember? If so, then it's likely congenital, which from the perspective of stability, is a good thing.  

[wayne999]

Is congenital curvature usually because of a birth defect in the size of the chambers etc?  Because I have a waisting effect and some mild thickening in the tissue in the bottom 1/3 of my unit (as well as what i think are 2 plaques on either side). Is it possible to be born with thickening (fibrosis?) or plaques?

I am unsure about whether i have congenital or Peyronies Disease.

I would think it very, very unlikely that a person would be born with plaques. Has your condition existed for as long as you can remember? If so, then it's likely congenital, which from the perspective of stability, is a good thing.

Yes it has, but i believe that masturbating by lying on the ground for many years when i was very young caused the curvature. In descriptions of congenital curvature, it says there is no scarring. So i assume for these cases there would be no palpable plaques/nodules etc? But in my case i can see and feel a few chord-like objects that feel hard when pressed.

[newguy]

wayne - Thanks for the additional info. From your comments it seems that you're not 100% of whether this issue has existed since birth. In a sense I don't find that all that surprising, as i'm sure many people feel the same way. Has the condition ever worstened in your view? If it has changed at all, that could be an indicator that this isn't congenital. If you haven't already, it's worth getting this looked into and diagnosed either way, as it could give you a better guide as to which treatments to seek out (if any).

[wayne999]

wayne - Thanks for the additional info. From your comments it seems that you're not 100% of whether this issue has existed since birth. In a sense I don't find that all that surprising, as i'm sure many people feel the same way. Has the condition ever worstened in your view? If it has changed at all, that could be an indicator that this isn't congenital. If you haven't already, it's worth getting this looked into and diagnosed either way, as it could give you a better guide as to which treatments to seek out (if any).

On the topic of have things gotten worse, it's hard for me to say anything here either. The only thing that comes to mind is that earlier this year (before searching up on all this Peyronies Disease), i thought it was strange when i noticed the waisting effect when flaccid on occasion. I'm reasonably sure that if that was there for a while, i might have picked up on it earlier ?? But i cannot say 100% if it only just came up this year. So i'm pretty much stuck about what to do....I'll see another uro pretty soon so i'll try to get more input, but basically because of my age and the fact that i can't remember if i was ever straight, i'm guessing the uro will just jump to the answer of congenital curvature.  In some ways i actaully wish i had Peyronies Disease, because then i would give VED a try etc.

For all those guys that have a downward curvature, do you feel any lumps/plauqes on the underside of your penis?  Because i just have 2 chord-like things on either side of my penis (not on the underside) and yet i have a downward curve. What i've noticed is that where the waisting stops, it basically makes my penis become composed of almost 2 different cylinder-like structures, so that when the one at the top fills and expands more better than the other one, it gets (heavier?? not sure) and thus points downward.

[wayne999]

Does anyone know of any other forums where they have been using VED's or other devices for penis enlargement? I know some people mentioned here they thought they read people with curvatures post on these sites about their results.

[Tim468]

"ThundersPlace" is one of the largest forums for discussion.

I have found that there are somewhat hierarchical ways of looking at information there and that they are fairly convinced that congenital curvature cannot be corrected. But none of them seem to have heard of or used the methods we use to straighten a damaged and bent penis. It strikes me that this is a possibility worthy of a clinical study.

Tim

[wayne999]

Tim468:
Do you know how often they let registrations occur? It says they have reached their max at 105,000 and won't let me register. It seems that every 2nd person there, though, has recorded some 1" length gain etc (judging from their post signatures) by doing whatever exercises they are doing. What are your thoughts on this as a GP?

Also as a GP, what are your thoughts on the viability of VED or other techniques to help with congenital curves? It seems to me that if VED's can help stretch Peyronies Disease-affected tissue (i.e. tissue that theoretically should have permanently lost elasticity after the "active" phase if you want to believe the literature), then it should be able to help  

[Tim468]

I registered "ThundersPlace" a year or so ago, and left after I felt I had seen enough. No clue about registration issues, but I bet that they will fix that to allow full membership.

I am trained in pediatrics, not as a GP, but it is my thought that the VED principles that are espoused by Old Man might work for congenital curvature. I think this because there is some evidence (from the Thundersplace penis enlargement (PE) site and others) that penile stretching regularly over time leads to length gains. This suggests to me that normal tunica can be remodeled a bit and stretched out, as can many different tissues. What the PE sites do not do is stretch differentially - or perhaps they do...

A longitudinal stretch applied to two sides of a penis with different inherent lengths would seem to me to apply a greater tension to the shorter side. This should, in turn, lead to more lengthening to that side. I think that this is why the narrow cylinder method works with the VED (in a large cylinder the penis can assume a curved shape). I also think that a traction device should apply a stronger pull on the short side. Thus, there should be someone out there with a congenital curve who has gained some straightening. If it works.

Tim

[Pete28]

Hello


I am new here on this forum. Because in my own language there is no real forum on penis curvature or Peyronies, i was happy to find this very well structurated forum/database.
I am dutch so forgive me any spelling mistakes.

I recently have been diagnosid, follwing Doppler Ultrasound when flaccid (not when erect, bacause of fear for priapism), with 'localized fibrosis' just bellow the gland arrea. The fibrosis mainly is on the left hand side, causing a bend to the left when erect. But there is also some fibrosis on the right. I was almost sure i had Peyronies disease. But apparantly it is not. It's not the tunica that has fibrotic tissue but the corpora themselves.

The symptoms are the following:

Erectile dysfunction

• frequent episodes of not being able to achieve erection
• weird soft erection: penis gets longer and can achieve good length, but there isnt many strength in it, i can point the erection in almost any direction (when 'soft erect', with severe stimulation it can get a little harder but certainly not good enough for sexual intercourse
• erection needs constant stimulation, otherwise it dissapears.
  

For the last few months the situaties the quality of my erections has been gradually decreasing. Last year i was able to get a full erection very fast, even when standing up. At the end of last year i noticed this was no longer possible. At that point my hardness was still good when 'laying' down on my back. I also had a burning sensation at the left base of my penis. But not when hard which is typical with Peyronies. Gradually the erection kept on getting worse, even when laying on my back.
My uro had proposed VED-therapy. He said to me not to worry about it, it was a bit scar tissue because of masturbation friction orso, and that my age (28), the scar would be able to stretch just fine. And at that point things seemed to worsen. After i have used the VED, i cannot have an erection for a day orso, because it takes away 'all feeling', there is 'total numbness' after using it. I can also induce only a minor erection with it before it's starting to hurt. I have never pushed beyond the pain limits, but nonetheless i have seemed to have caused some permanent damage. The erection became back after rusing the VED, but is weaker than before. Do some guys recognize this? Should i keep using the VED despite of the numbness and lack of spontaneous erection after using it? Could VED induce nerve damage? When i told the uro about this, he said it was proove for him that it's all in my mind, which really hurted and left me alone with it. In the meanwhile the burning sensation is gone. But on the otherhand: i feel how my body reacts and how the erection capacibility is gradually declining.

I have no diabetes or blood disease (have blood checked). I having a check for MS or nerve damage next week.

I am very worried about this situation. Sometimes i wished i had Peyronies because there is a lot more information to find and read about. Corporal fibrosis seems to be a very mysterious disease, no one knows what causes it and what to do against it.


I am sinking away in a black hole. Life sucks and i'd rather be in gail but with normal erection. I hope someone answers to help.


With regards
Pete

[Tim468]

Hi Pete,

No perfect words of wisdom (I wish) but some thoughts...

The VED may have been used at too high a pressure, if you felt numb afterwards. If I use too high of a pressure, I feel a little numb afterwards - also, releasing the pressure and reapplying it can be of help. Most of us do that about every 30 seconds - I personally "refresh" the vacuum every 3-5 minutes.

Traction may not be ideal for you, because the noose or strap will be applied right where you have the problem, near the end. For me, using the traction device made it worse right there, I think because it was a form of trauma.

Most of us think that Peyronie's Disease is caused by a multiple set of circumstances. In some cases, there is a rheumatologic basis, in others severe trauma, in others there seems to be a genetic predisposition with multiple areas affected (plam, shoulder, sole of foot as well as penis). But in all cases, there are certain things that you can do that might help.

In general, reducing inflammation might help. Regular treatment of pain with NSAIDs like Ibuprofen might help. Some NSAIDs available in Europe have been studied with a slight benefit (Piroxicam, tenoxicam, etc).

Reducing TGF levels with Pentox might be of help - most take 400 mg two to three times a day.

Most of us would avoid injections of verapamil, but would consider either verapamil cream (didn't help most, has really helped some) or verapamil given with iontophoresis.

Supplements that are anti-oxidant such as vitamin E (use a blend of all forms) at 400-800 IU per day might help.

Getting your thyroid and testosterone checked may be a good idea, and also considering dietary changes (to reduce the formation of glycation end-products which screw up just about everything. Avoiding refined carbohydrates will do that.

Tim

[gerMike]

I frequently have the same burning sensation in the left base of the penis as Pete28. How could one know whether corporal fibrosis started? I could imagine that all the TGF-beta down there cant be good for the corporas nearby. Especially when the Peyronies Disease doesnt get stable after years.

[Pete28]

Ok

So what should i eat or not eat to avoid further fibrosis?

Because of the stress i am smoking like a hurricane too. I know this could make matters worse. But it's difficult to quit in these conditions.

Getting your thyroid and testosterone checked may be a good idea, and also considering dietary changes (to reduce the formation of glycation end-products which screw up just about everything. Avoiding refined carbohydrates will do that.

Tim

[Tim468]

Dear Pete,

Without ANY data to support this in the literature - except that many diseases are increased or worsened by the presence of smoking, I would say that getting a different source of nicotine is really important. Using either the patch or gum, you will really benefit most from not smoking. Asking you to make dietary changes is like asking you to not throw bits of paper into a fire, when you are already pouring gasoline every day - it is irrelevant. But for what it is worth, avoiding refined carbs would be a good starting point.

Tim

[UK]

Pete, I'm reluctant to exclude Peyronie's from what you have told us. I'm not sure how clearly an ultrasound whilst flaccid would determine this, the point of having it erect is that it can gauge blood flow in the chambers and highlight corporal fibrosis.
I understand your reluctance for an injection but you are young and except your smoking habit you sound healthy so I don't have confidence in your diagnosis.
I'm not a urologist but I've also never heard of Corporal fibrosis being a cause of curvature.
If its early stage Peyronie's maybe oral medication might help but you need to be certain what you are treating.
Apologies if I have added to your confusion.

[Pete28]

You aren't giving me more confusion. Thx for the posting. In the contrary, you are probably right.

I have to get a Doppler when erect. Then i probably know more.
But i have read somewhere that penile injection could induce corporal fibrosis. Would this be true?

My uro told me that what i have is no corporal fibrosis. He says i have got some scar tissue because of sexual activity related friction. But what concerns me: 'scar tissue inside the corpora in essence is 'corporal fibrosis', right? So why don't call the devil by his name.
Because the condition seems to get worse, i dont know wether this is a 'stable situation' (stable scar because of friction that doesnt get worse) or the following thing, which i found on the internet:


'A condition called "corporal fibrosis" -- where the tubes of penile "spongy tissue" that maintain erection are gradually replaced by inactive, fibrous scar tissue -- remains largely untreatable. The disorder occurs when the penis' sensitive spongy-tissue cells don't get the oxygen they need to survive, usually because of a chronic reduction in blood flow.
"It's relatively common in men with diabetes and various forms of vascular disease, or men who've previously had infections -- usually infections of a penile prosthesis,"

I dont have diabetics or other vascular related symptoms, so i wonder, what the hell induces it. I still have erections 3,4 times a week. So the reduction in blood flow doesnt seem to be that chronic. Masturbating is quite tough though. First i takes a while to get the penis warmed up and get the blood in it. The erections can occur, but without stimulation, it dissapears quite rapid. I have read simular symptoms with guys who have Peyronies Disease. It seems that any fibrotic condition on the penis (Peyronies Disease or corporal fibrosis) can induce 'venous leak'. The penis can no longer expand properly, with blood outlfow as a result. Does the leak fixes itself when the fibrosis is restretched? Can fibrosis be restretched or dissapear and what needs to be done? But i can see a chronic circle somewhere: poor bloodflow and oxygenation inside the penis results in fibrosis, which induces again poor inflow and venous leak, blood cannot stay long enough for proper oxygenation of the corpora, resulting in more fibrosis .. how to break that cycle? And what's the role of that 'friction scar' (if there is any) in the whole story?
So many questions ... but aswers are hard to find ... even by scientists.

I am still single. My worste fear: having to find a wife not being even 30 years old while having a prothesis hanging between my legs.

[newguy]

Pete - Maybe you'd respond well to oral medication (pentox, arginine etc)?

[LWillisjr]

Pete28,
I read each of your posts. And I'm trying to put together some thoughts for you. What I read is that your primary concern is the "lack of quality" of your erections. And as I understand it you did have an ultrasound while flaccid that did show localized fibrosis. (corporal not tunica)

While it is true that the ultrasound will measure blood flow, this helps the urologist determine the overall health of your penis. I would think that any fibrosis would show up whether your penis was flaccid or erect. So I don't think an ultrasound while erect will tell you any more about your fibrosis, but it may tell the urologist about any blood flow issues. I guess I don't understand why the ultrasound wasn't done both ways. If you are concerned about the injection...... for this it is a very small needle and done by a professional. One injection shouldn't cause you any issues. And in the case of a priaprism, there is another injection they can give you to counteract the first one. I've had ultrasound flaccid and erect with no problems.

I would heed Tim's advice and consider less pressure on the VED. I will be the first to admit that I have not used a VED and am not an expert on them. But I could easily see where someone might pump up to what they think is a point short of pain, and could still be over doing it.

If the real concern is erection quality, or lack thereof, then talk to you urologist about some Viagra or Cialis samples. You may find it does wonders. My erections are not quite what they used to be and these drugs help immensely with that.

And after all else fails, don't be afraid to consider that

"prosthesis hanging between your legs".

Most of us who don't have one are afraid of the unknown. Talk to JackP on this forum. He now has one, is completely natural with it, and now regrets having waited so long. In fact I think he is quite proud of it, feels like he has that "penis of a 17 year old" again.

[jackp]

Les / Pete

The road to a prosthesis is not an easy one. I can imagine at 30 needing a prosthesis running and screaming NO!!

When I had my doppler the injection of PGE1 would not create an erection. The doctor said it made did not matter he could see what he needed. He first did the doppler without the injection and 20 minutes after the injection no erection.
Yes penile injections for ED can cause corporal fibrosis, did to me. But one shot in the doctors office for a doppler should do no harm. The problem is repeated injections.

It took me over 10 years of trying everything else legal and some not before deciding that a implant was the only answer for me. Before the implant I had heart stents and almost died during a non related 10 day stay in the hospital.

Now I can be "normal" again. By that I mean I can lay on my back in bed with a hard penis sticking straight up. Make love to my wife of over 40 years any time I want for as long as I, or she wants.

Peyronies disease over a period of 14 years did a number on me. ED, loss of night time erections, Venous Leakage and Corporal Fibrosis. In my case it was progressive.

I do not consider myself cured of peyronies because the scar on top of my penis prevents regaining my original size. Now original size is not an issue with us, never has been, just being married with mutual respect for each other.

Pete, If all a lady is looking for from you is your penis she is not the one for you. Sure is have a "prosthesis hanging between my legs" but the wife and I are the only ones that know it. Now it is so natural we do not even give it a thought it is so natural. Like a teenager again. I can activate it during foreplay and she does not even know I am doing it.

Do not beat yourself up for something you had no control over. Peyronies is no shame, only life. If life hands you a lemon make lemonaide out of it. Sometimes it takes a lot of sugar but it can be done. Remember never-ever/never-ever give up.

Jackp

PS The over a year between heart stents and implant I found this forum and Old Man. He put me on the proper VED exercise and that was a God Send. I do not know what I would have done that year without his support.

[Pete28]

Thx for sharing your experience.
Maybe a prothesis is not the end of the world. And i am very glad for you that you are a happy man again, with a normal sex life. After all the misery, that's certainly something you deserve.

But i'll have to keep it as a 'last resort solution'. I only mentioned the prothesis with my uro and he decleared me nuts.

My two major questions are the following:

1. Do i know sure after Doppler when erect whether or not i have venous leak?
My uro told me, if you have venous leak, you cannot get an erection and it's merely congenitical.
Is minor venous leak treatable with Viagra or Cialis?

2. Use of VED
I  really don't apply to much pressure. I cannot create a total erection with it, only very slight semi-one before it's starting to hurt. Two times only five minutes at moderate pressure and i am totally impotent (really no spontaneous response anymore) the day after. And when the erection returns, it's softer than before. I really have the feeling that the VED worses my case. I dont get it. I dont know what i am doing wrong. Some other members also experienced this 'numbness' after using VED. It's clearly something that happens more. Which physical effect causes this numb, impotent feeling? Damage to nerves, tissue overstretched? Theoretically, you could aspect the use of VED pumps fresh blood in the chambers + the stretching of tissue is stimulated, so erection should be easier (in stead of more difficult) to achieve ?

[jackp]

Pete

Yes a prosthesis is a last resort after all else fails. The urologist that called you "nuts" needs another profession.

A doppler will tell the degree of venous leakage at the time. First is an ultrasound without the PGE1 and then he injects the PGE1 to create an erection. In my case was very little to none. As I understand it the less the erection the worse the venous leakage. Also venous leakage is progressive. Some have tried micro surgery but with little to no success.

Treatments for venous leakage can range from the pills V, C, and L to shots of PGE1 or Trimix. All were basically worthless to me and the shots caused more damage with increased corporal fibrosis. I Do Not Recommend Shots In The Penis For ED.

As for the VED I will have to refere you to Old Man. I know it helped me but it is not a cure all or help for everyone. Post your questions to him under the VED thread or send him a PM.

You are correct that a prosthesis is not the end of the world. For the wife and I  it has been a new beginning. Her support over the last almost 15 years has been the rock that kept me going. I can still see the gleam in her eyes after Dr. Milam talked to her after the implant.

Good Luck, and if needed keep looking until you find the right doctor. They are hard to find. I had to go to Vanderbilt to find mine but was worth the bother.

Jackp

[Pete28]

Talking about venous leaks is a bit scary. And you can think you've got one because the adrenalin immitates one.


I want to be sure. I will have my Doppler done friday normally. I tell you guys what the outcome was ...

[jackp]

Pete

I do not think adrenalin immitates a venous leakage.

Relax, It will be OK and give you some answers. Keep us posted.

Jackp

[Pete28]

Hi guys

Apparently my problem has another cause than what i first thought.

I was scheduled on Friday to undergo a test which is called bulbocarvernosus reflex and in the afternoon a doppler.

'The bulbocavernosus reflex is a polysynaptic reflex that is useful in testing for spinal shock and gaining information about the state of spinal cord injuries (SCI). The test involves monitoring anal sphincter contraction in response to squeezing the glans penis or tugging on an indwelling Foley catheter. '

At this test, the physician could detect nerve damage to the pudendal nerve. This nerve is 'the link' between the lower spine and parasympathic nerves of the erectiele bodies. There was no response bilateral. I remembered an uncomfortable long ride on a bicycle at the end of december. That's also the point where as the ED has gradually begun to develop. This is something diffirent than corporal fibrosis or venous leak. When the nerve doesnt work probably the rest doesnt follow and because of that my erections are rather weak and unstable. This also explains the penile numbness and buring sensation i had (neuropathy).

The doppler in the afternoon was cancelled. The urologist (expert andrologist) examined my penis by palpation and said my penis felt very supple. He also told that a penis with (severe) corporal fibrosis resulating in venous leak (vasculogenic impotence) feels a lot stiffer in flaccid state. I can also have erections, with enough stimulation (needed because of the lach of 'signal') they dont dissapear. When you really have venous leak, the blood doesnt stay in the penis with of without stimulation. I could to the rather expensive Doppler test but he was 90% sure that nerve damage was the cause of my concern.

Nerve damage could take up to a year to heal. First the unbuild themselves, before gradually rebuilding themselves (hopefully). Of course, when an underlying condition (disease) stears it, i am a long walk from home. Other things that cause neuropathy are diabetes and MS, and when i would have any of these conditions i would experience other difficulties as well, which i dont have.

This doesnt explain hower the slightly enhanced 'curvature'. Maybe the fibrosis is getting worse very slightly because my erections are less firm due to the nerve damage? Maybe the nerve damage induces it directly? The doc prescribed me Cialis to maintain firmer erections in the meanwhile. I also take Vitamin B, E and a homeopthic product that promotes nerve growth. I will restart the VED to give a little push to the blood supply.

[Tim468]

Pete,

Your post is a strong reminder why we go to urologists, and do not self-diagnose.

Better yet, is for us to go to a good urologist like you did. It sounds like you are getting thoughtful help.

Tim

[BentCock]

Hello,

My curvature was originally diagnosed as Peyronies by my family physician and urologist.  The urologist recommended I meet with a surgeon as the curve is quite severe.  The surgeon then said it was not peyronies but congenital curvature.  I've had this downward curve since puberty and I'm 27 y/o now.  I feel no pain, but sometimes is sore while having sexual intercourse due to the complicated bend.

I'm debating the surgery for many reasons, but still want to proceed with it as well. However, I'm very nervous and intimidated by the surgery and scared of possibly complications post-op.


I think I need to hear from others who have this condition and have either had surgery or what they decided to do?

I would like to talk to others (prefer via email) about their experiences and how they felt overall, if they have problems after surgery, how bad the scaring was, any pain, etc?  For comparative purposes, I'm open to exchanging photos of my condition.  I'm also curious to see before/after photos of others if they've undergone surgery or even if they suffer from the same condition?

Thanks in advance for your advice!

Please feel free to contact me by email at art.rbrowne@gmail.com

Regards.

[Straw]

Going back to the very first post on this Congenital Curvature  board I would like to know the most current treatment for this penis curvature problem.  I have been curved to the left (about 20-30 degree?) all my life and that has been 61 years. I have been married 38 years and three kids but I still feel uncomfortable about this.  Now I'm facing ED too - so I'm getting depressed.  I'm going to a urologist next week, so what do I say?
I have no pain or other Peyronies symptoms, so any advice.  Thanks!

[jackp]

After all the ED pills and other options with peyronies fail the only way to treat it is with an penile implant.

I do not know about congenital curvature and ED. Could be the same option.

If your urologist recommends an implant there are only a couple of doctors in the US that do it well.

You need to see a Male Sexual Function Specialist not a general practice urologist for an evaluation.

For the results of my implant check the Surgery for Peyronies board on this forum.

My History link will be at the bottom of this post. I will be glad to answer any questions.

Jackp

[Straw]

Thank you.  That's what I wanted to know...congenital and Peyronies are treated the same way.  But in congenital, is the plaque issue the same?

[jackp]

In congenital there is usually not a plaque. If you have a plaque you may have peyronies.
Jackp

[LWillisjr]

Going back to the very first post on this Congenital Curvature  board I would like to know the most current treatment for this penis curvature problem.  I have been curved to the left (about 20-30 degree?) all my life and that has been 61 years. I have been married 38 years and three kids but I still feel uncomfortable about this.  Now I'm facing ED too - so I'm getting depressed.  I'm going to a urologist next week, so what do I say?
I have no pain or other Peyronies symptoms, so any advice.  Thanks!

If the curve is gradual, then this is generally an indication of a congenital curve. Peyronies Disease is generally indicated by an acute curve (straight, sudden curve, then straight again). If you have made it this far then my suggestion would be to simply deal with the ED issues. This certainly is NOT uncommon in older men. Talk to your urologist about Viagra or Cialis, they tend to work very well.

The only way I am aware to deal with a congenital curve is through surgery. Something called the Nesbit procedure is common with congenital curvatures if you are able to achieve and maintain an erection. If you are not able to get an erectoin even with Viagra or Cialis, then an implant would be recommended (jackp on our fourm is the expert on this).

[BentYoung]

Hello All,

I am new to this fourm - this is a very positive site. I have struggling (mentally) for months now wondering what going on with me. I am 24 and have hourglass issues with some upwards curve that I have had since I can remember. I just recently became sexually active a couple of years ago and got some unsettling comments from girls with mildly painful sex. Went to several Uros and finally flew out to see Dr. Lue. He examined my ultrasound and commented that everything looked normal. My curve he said was on the extreme end of normal. He gave me Pentox - which I am taking with L AG. I spoke with my father, and he had an aaaahhhh moment when I explained what was going on and he said that he has a similar issue for a long time. My question for you all is: do most of you with confirmed Peyronie's have ultrasound abnormalities? If no, how can you be certain its the disease and not congenital? I really relate to you all with the struggles...its hard to go out with friends looking for girls knowing I may be scarred for life. Any comments would be appreciated. I am in this with you.      

[BentYoung]

Some background as well:

Micro blood in urine since I was very young
Painful urination (infrequent) since I was very young
Hourglass /dorsal curve of about 30 degree - since I was very young
prone masturbation during  youth - stopped during high school

[LWillisjr]

BentYoung,
Welcome and thanks for sharing. You question was in regards to the ultrasound. IT is my understanding that the Peyronies plaque or scar does show up on the ultrasound, and it does not have to be calcified for this. My doctor pointed mine out on the ultrasound, but I couldn't tell it as I don't know what to look for. I had a fractured ankle when I was in my teens, and I remember the doc pointing out the hairline fracture on the X-ray and it all looked the same to me. But yes I believe Peyronies Disease shows up on the ultrasound and in general the doctor can also fell (palpate) the plaque.

You didn't say if Dr. Lue clearly diagnosed you with Peyronies Disease, or if your curve is congenital. With a congenital curvature you curve would be gradual like a banana (sorry for the poor analogy). With Peyronies Disease you are generally straight up to the point of curvature and the curve is more acute (sharper). There is a reasonably good picture if you go to wikipedia.com and search on Peyronies Disease.

I'm not sure what comments your partners have made. And it is unfortunate they did so. I am no expert but have learned enough over the years that penis' come in many sizes and shapes. Many guys have a natural curve of some sort. For some reason we all wish ours was bigger or more "perfectly shaped". Don't let a few comments get to your head. This whole thing can be very mental anyway.

You did mention hourglassing, and this is more typical of Peyronies Disease than congenital. If you are able to achieve erections, and have sex without pain, then don't get hung up on "what it looks like".

[BentYoung]

lwillisjr,

Thanks for the reply and kind words. I like this site for the simple reason that by comparing all of our stories we are really doing more research on this distressing condition than most urologists. To answer your questions: Dr. Lue didn't tell me I had Peyronie's...my curve is gradual (banana is actually spot on). However, I have heard that most congenital issues are simply length differences in the top and bottom of the member. My condition, as you noted, comes with visible dark band around the middle that causes hourglass shape when on the way to full mast. I am thinking that there is more scar on the top, which causes the curve respectively. This sounds like classic Peyronies Disease. What is weird is my father has this too; meaning that this is congenital scarring or congenital Peyronies Disease, not a congenital curve. Does this seem possible? Also, I have experienced on and off burning with urination which I think comes from the restriction the scar puts on my urethra (or having symmetrical scarring on the bottom as well). Anyone with hourglass relate?    

[newguy]

BentYoung - Since Dr Lue gave you pentox, he must think that there is a decent chance that you have peyronie's as opposed to a congenitcal curvature (because pentox would do nothing for a congenital curvature). If you take pentox for 6-12 months you should get a good idea of whether ti's going to be of use to you. If it does help, then perhaps your considition will improve enough for it not to be such a big issue. If it does not, there are other options such as the VED and traction which may help. You could potentially start on one of those now. Since there is some hourglassing, perhaos VED is the best option.  

[chiguy]

Bent,

Was the pain on your end or on the female's end? A lot of females complain of pain regardless of what it looks like sometimes due to their inexperience, so don't always take their comments to heart.

[BentYoung]

Chiguy,

The pain was only on my part, with certain women in certain positions (usually woman on top). I havent had any women complain of pain. Whats strange is the fact that my father has this condition. I guess you can be born with scarring instead of being born with just the natural curve. All the uros I have been to cannot feel any plaque, but I can certainly see abnormalities in the center shaft area (even when flaccid if its cold). Also, Dr. Lue initially just prescribed me only viagra upon my first visit. It was only after I complained in an email about my unsatisfaction that he wrote me a script for the Pentox and faxed it to me. I guess that the outcome of the first appointment was partly my fault; I took pictures of fully erect member and didn't include the hourglassing that shows up on the way to full mast. If I would have doe so, he may have sensed more urgentcy and gotten more agressive with my treatment.  

[newguy]

Chiguy - At what age did you first notice the curvature and hourglassing?

[Old Man]

Bent Young:

The following is just some sage advice from an old guy who has been there and done that. The woman on top position for sex is one of the worst positions that a man can use. It puts severe strain on the shaft especially if the woman is very active and moves around in a way that your shaft is bent back and forth. This usually happens when the woman is very excited and wants to achieve an orgasm with much activity.

So, bottom line, you would be wise to cease that position to eliminate the possibility of injuring yourself further. I know first hand that further trauma can and will be done by using the position.  Take my hard learned advice and go from there. Use any other position that is satisfying and fulfilling for both you and your partner.

Old Man

[LWillisjr]

lwillisjr,
To answer your questions: Dr. Lue didn't tell me I had Peyronie's...my curve is gradual (banana is actually spot on). However, I have heard that most congenital issues are simply length differences in the top and bottom of the member. My condition, as you noted, comes with visible dark band around the middle that causes hourglass shape when on the way to full mast. I am thinking that there is more scar on the top, which causes the curve respectively. This sounds like classic Peyronies Disease. What is weird is my father has this too; meaning that this is congenital scarring or congenital Peyronies Disease, not a congenital curve. Does this seem possible? Also, I have experienced on and off burning with urination which I think comes from the restriction the scar puts on my urethra (or having symmetrical scarring on the bottom as well). Anyone with hourglass relate?  

BentYoung.....
Some of my own thoughts and observations. First off, I think it is good to get a proper and accurate diagnosis. The reason is that the approach to treatment might be slightly different for each. Don't assume you have Peyronies Disease because Dr. Lue perscribed it. You said you are having pain and he may simply have perscribed it for the pain alone. Also, if you have a "visible" band around your penis, that tells me that you have some discoloration in the skin. This is not typical peyronies that I am familiar with. And for your to have hourglassing during the time you are achieving would indicate that you have something in your tunica (the tough sheath that is under you skin). And if you have had the hourglassing since birth then maybe you have a band of tissue in the tunica that expands at a different rate than the the rest. This does sound a little like Peyronies scarring, but maybe there is something here that it also genetic, I don't know.

I do know that with Peyronies Disease, there is a time that you don't have it..... and then with or without warning you definitely contract Peyronies Disease. So while you do have some symptoms of each, I think what you have may also still be congenital in nature. That is why I asked what Dr. Lue's diagnosis was. We are just guessing and Dr. Lue is in the best position to tell you what you actually have since he examined you.

Generally surgery is the ony way to correct congenital curves. You can try traction or a VED however. But it also doesn't sound like your curve is bad enough to warrant surgery. Have you always had pain, or it this something that has started recently.

And like Old Man said........ the Cowgirl position is one that lends to increased risk or trauma.

[chiguy]

I was 24 when the curvature occurred. This was 2 months prior to the onsent of pain. I also have discoloration on the bottom 2/3 of the shaft. It it not very noticeable, except to me.

I asked the urologist about the discoloration, he said that as you age, it your member becomes darker, but the peyronie's plaque can slightly darken the areas involved. This could be true, it might not be true.

I wouldn't worry too much about the discoloration though.

It seems like everyone's case is different. I experienced curvature first, then pain. The curvature has remained the same the entire time and only fairly recently has the pain diminished.

[JWL]

Hello to all, I'm new here and have also noticed that it seems to be a positive place despite such a negative issue.

I am not sure as to whether I have Peyronie's Disease or a congenital curvature.  I am 23 years old, and my penis has always been curved, of that I'm positive, about 5 degrees or so to the left.  Lately, however, I'm noticing that it is more "bent" then "curved"--that is, the base is straight, then it takes a turn to the left and is straight again.  The angle of deformity seems more pronounced as well, probably closer to 15 degrees.

Strangely enough, the penis seems straightest when it is fully erect, when it is in a semi-flaccid state the bend is extreme (when it is completely flaccid there is no bend at all).

I have no pain, and cannot find any hard lump that would indicate plaque.  I do seem to perceive that one side (the right side) of my penis is spongier and more elastic than the left, which would make sense if the thing is bending to the left.

I'm trying to tell myself that it's all in my head but I don't feel convinced...  All that I've read suggests that it would be very very rare but not impossible that somebody my age has Peyronie's, but still...

I went to my GP and he told me to see a urologist, but here in Canada where I live they told me I would have to wait 4 months to see him, and I'm supposed to be leaving the country in a month or so, so I said forget it.

Obviously nobody here can diagnose me, but many of you seem very knowledgeable about Peyronie's.  Is this something that might be Peyronies Disease and should be checked out? Could it possibly be Peyronies Disease if I am unable to locate any hard plaque?

Thanks a lot!

[chiguy]

I don't want to concern you too much, but it's best that Peyronie's is caught early, if it is indeed Peyronie's. There are tons of other factors which can cause bending, such as blood flow issue, scarring (not related to Peyronie's), and even a  bruise.

In my case, the curvature appeared one day and 2 months later I experienced pain. Not all Peyronie's patients have pain. Many do not have pain and in some cases, the pain doesn't appear until months after the curvature.

You can start taking natural vitamin E, which some doctors say prevents progression of the problem. In my case, I take 1600 mgs (4 pills of 400 mg) a day, 2 at breakfast, 2 at dinner. Some patients take 400, 800, or 1000. Unfortunately, there isn't a lot of information out there about the disease.

I would say make the earliest urologist appointment possible. Here in the United States, a lot of urologists don't know enough about peyronie's. If your urologist says there is nothing wrong, make an appointment with another.

The general consensus is the earlier you can treat peyronie's, the better chance for full recovery, especially with younger patients. I myself am your age and have had the condition for 9 months. Experienced curvature in February and pain in March.

[Skjaldborg]

JWL,

Welcome to the forum. It's possible that you have congenital curvature rather than Peyronie's. I suggest seeing a urologist as soon as possible. I do not recommend using any treatments or taking any supplements until you get a proper diagnosis. Can you schedule an appointment with a urologist in another city or province?

Best of luck,

-Skjald