Traction device trouble 2 different devices don't work for me, please help!

[Nubuk]

Hi all, I now have both the andropeyronie & the male edge.. First the andro peyronie - I just can't fit it.. I am what's commonly known as a grower not a shower - that is to say that erect I am around 7.25 inches & flaccid - well it can fluctuate between 3 - 4 inches.. I found the andropeyronie impossible to fit because the length I am trying to achieve when stretched - (my erect length) won't allow me to fit the device properly & my god what a polava - just impossible. So, I ordered the male edge as I saw the strap could be switched round - well I've found this is poorly made (plastic) & it works for a min or so then the head of my penis just slips out.. I've been on their forum & apparently I'm not on my own in this regard - does anyone have any advice or am I going to have to try device no 3 - the phallosan? I've read that's also v difficult to fit.. I'm at a loss here. I've spent a lot of money to no avail. Do any of you have any experience with the two devices I already have or would I just be best suited to a phallosan? I'm losing valuable time as my scarring is still quite fresh (result of penile fracture) & therefore not entirely stubborn yet.. But time is ticking and I'm getting nowhere.  

[kuaka]

VED.  It can accomplish what you need and doesn't require as precise of fit.  

[Old Man]

Nubak:

Suggest that you go to the Augusta VED company at this web site:

www.augustams.com

They make all kinds of VEDs with larger size cylinders than the standard sizing, etc. You would need to buy one of their VEDs and get them to substitute the larger/longer cylinder.

Log in to their home page, locate their toll free number and call a sales tech rep to help you with getting a VED that would accommodate your size.

Regards, Old Man

PS: I too am a grower, not a shower. I have a turtle neck effect when flaccid, but when I stimulate the little joker, it grows. Flaccid, I am about 2 or 3 inches at best, but grows to 6 and 1/2 inches when erect. BTW, I have been using the old Osbon Erecaid Esteem one cylinder VED since 1995. It works great for Peyronies Disease as well as ED problems.

[Nubuk]

Thank you for your suggestion. I neglected to mention however that for the moment VED is not an option for me.. It was, but due to purchasing the wrong vacuum device, I have enlarged my veins & am waiting for that to correct itself before carrying on with that.. So, for the time being, it's traction and oral medication for me.  

[LWillisjr]

I think you might need to give the Andropeyronie another try. Any traction device is NOT easy to use at first. And I don't think continuing to buy other models will make it any easier. The first time I felt like I needed 4 hands to put thing on. Even when flaccid you can stretch yourself to close to your erect length. So you have to pull, stretch, compress the tension rods, strap in, and slow release the tension to apply stretching.

I know sounds complicated. After a while I got quit good at putting the thing on.

[monekymindcontrol]

I am having the same problem, thanks LWillisjr for the feedback – but you haven't addressed what Nubuk said: for him (like me), getting it on in the first place is not the problem, but the penis head slips out within a minute. Who has experience with this problem and how have they solved it?

Also including this for readers of this thread from the rest of the English-speaking world:
Urban Dictionary: polava

[J-A]

Phallosan Forte is the most comfortable device ive found

[LWillisjr]

You need to experiment with how tight to have the noose. You may need to tighten it a bit more to hold the head. For comfort I would wrap a thin piece of cloth just under the glans and then use the strap to help hold things in place. And go easy at first on applying tension until you get use to it.

[skunkworks]

Maybe practice strapping in with just the head piece, so there is no tension. Once you've figured out how to fit it best, then try with it on the traction device.

I have made a modification to mine so I strap into the head piece and then put the head piece on the rods to start traction. Picture attached.

Stick with traction, it is in my opinion the most effective treatment currently available when done correctly. The Andropeyronie is a good device, with a bit of practice you should be able to use it effectively.  

[monekymindcontrol]

There's not really anything to "practice" – the head goes in fine, the tension just yanks it back out as soon as it's applied.

The setup you show in the picture looks like it would make it easier to increase the retaining force on the head. Is the tube thing your jury-rigging, or did it come with the device? What exactly is your modification?

I bought the sizegenetics without comparison shopping because my uro specifically told me to get that one, but I'm thinking he gave me kind of a bum steer, since only comes with the one type of strap for anchoring the head, while competitors seem to offer several :/ A tube thing like you show seems like it would be worth a try, wondering if I can retrofit it.

[monekymindcontrol]

(PS sorry, had two threads open at once and got confused between them – skunkworks was presumably addressing Nubuk, not me directly, but it sounds like what I said is the same problem as Nubuk is having...)

[skunkworks]

Just general advice really, addressing whoever it is applicable to I guess.

re practising, there has to be something to practice as other people can successfully use the strap so you need to try different ways of strapping it in. That could involve getting a bit more blood into the glans first so the strap has more to grip etc.  I have never used any of the strap type ones though so hopefully someone who does will chime in about that.

I assumed you were talking about the noose as that used to be the default standard and you had to pay extra for the 'comfort' strap. The noose works fine, when I bought mine from Fastsize ages back I paid a bit extra to get the soft silicon noose tubing, it has a lot more grip so holds better while being looser so as to minimize circulation cut off risks.

The tube is just the noose, it used to be default on the sizegenetics also. By the way the sizegenetics is the andropenis device rebadged or at least it was a few years back so hopefully your accessories will fit fine.

The mod I have made is the sections cut out of the plastic on the head piece where the rods slide in. I've attached another pic with some arrows etc. By cutting away the plastic as I have done, I can now strap into the head piece under zero tension so it is much easier to get a good solid fit. Then I place it on the rods to start traction.  

[kuaka]

I have discontinued traction for now due to the limitations of attachment.  VED does not have those limitations.  Perhaps the Phalosan Forte device would work for traction, as it is a slight hybrid, using vacuum to attach.

[monekymindcontrol]

My sizegenetics device did not come with a tube/noose; it comes with a flat strap with raised "tags" for want of a better word that lock it into the slots on the device. Here's a picture:

http://sizegeneticshowto.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/2-1-300x264.jpg

That's why I'm saying there's nothing for me to practice: the last "tag" = the maximum tightness, so there's nothing that can be done to make the strap itself tighter. Meanwhile I have ordered the Andropenis add-on kit with some tubes/nooses; I'll report back on the results.

[skunkworks]

Hmm that seems like ridiculously bad design re the strap, did they provide any padding type stuff that could be used to get a tighter grip?

Once your noose/tubing arrives, post again if you're having any trouble getting a good grip. You'll probably understand why my modification is so useful once you start tying in with the noose.

[monekymindcontrol]

OK, I now have a silicone tube anchoring system from the "andropenis comfort kit" and can confirm that, in comparison, the size genetics strap is indeed a ridiculously bad design. It has the advantages that it is comfortable, applies pressure pretty evenly over a large area, can be removed very quickly, and does not press the head of the penis into a weird angle – but the disadvantage that it completely fails to hold the penis head in place under any significant tension.

I discussed the problem with the size genetics strap and pricing a bit more in another thread:

Penis slips out of traction device - Peyronies Society Forums

Nubuk, am I correct in assuming your andropenis device comes with a silicone tube/noose thing to hold the head in like I now have? Having now used one, I'm surprised you still slip out – but maybe I myself am not applying *enough* tension? One thing I notice was that you said you are trying to stretch to your erect length – why exactly? Was that what your uro told you to do? The directions that came with SG device said make the device 1 cm longer than your outstretched flaccid state, and as I reported in the other thread, the Levine protocol was to increase the length 0.5 cm every 2 weeks (though I couldn't find any information on what the *starting* length was supposed to be...). So perhaps you are starting with too *much* tension? I just haven't been able to get a clear answer yet on the amount of tension needed...

[skunkworks]

Those instructions should be ignored.

You need to measure the tension on your device at each marking, and work via tension not by length. YOu can measure it by putting the device on a kitchen scale and pressing down till the springs reach each tension mark, and noting what the tension was at each mark.

Start off at 900grams tension and stay at that for a few weeks.  

[monekymindcontrol]

skunkworks: where does your information come from? As I said, I would be inclined to assume the 0.5 cm/2 wk recommendation is correct since it is from a description of the Levine traction study... In any case, I don't understand what you mean by "work via tension not by length"; after all, the only way to adjust the tension is to adjust the device length... The actual tension that is being placed on my penis would be a function of the ratio of the device length to my penis length, so not something that could somehow be measured user-independently on a scale or otherwise, unless I am missing something essential here.

[skunkworks]

Yeah it is wrong. All independent studies have gone by tension, and measured length at the end. I would have to find the full studies to show you that, I do not have time to do this but I have gone over this many times in the past.

Can you post a link to the study you are referring to because I cannot recall any study mentioning increasing 0.5cm every two weeks. The only documents I can remember mentioning that are manufacturer usage guides. Edit found it - http://www.usphysiomed.com/Externa_Stretching_Study02.pdf  . Very small study and not independent.

If you measure the tension of the device at the marks the manufacturer has placed on them, when you then extend the device to those marks while strapped in, your penis will be at that tension. The actual tension on your penis is a function of the strength of the springs, the compression of those springs and the elasticity of your penis. Length of device and penis are only relevant as the details which create the compression on the springs.

When I have time I am going to write up a proper FAQ about this, as the same questions are coming up over and over and over again. But long story short, adding cm per week as per an arbitrary guideline that does not take into account the specific elasticity of your penis (which not surprisingly will vary greatly from person to person, even more so in peyronie's sufferers), is not how it should be done. You could either be under too much tension or too little . Measure the tension of your device, and increase tension as time progresses.  

[monekymindcontrol]

The source for 0.5 cm/2 wk was:

Penile traction therapy and Peyronie's disease: a state of art review of the current literature

"Levine conducted a pilot study of 11 men with longstanding Peyronies Disease (mean 29 months) who were trialled on PTT and instructed to wear the device for a minimum of 2 h per day, increased to a maximum of 8 h per day with the extender rods lengthened by 0.5 cm every 2 weeks for 6 months [Levine et al. 2008]."

Meanwhile, I think I am now starting to see what you are getting at: by "work via tension not by length" you mean "determine the length to adjust the device to by observing the degree of spring compression", n'est-ce pas?

[skunkworks]

I say work by tension not by length because tension is the only number that matters with regards to safety and efficacy. Everything else is secondary.  The same lengths can mean different tension, or different lengths mean the same tension between people and devices. Hell even temperature variation will affect things, such as the elasticity of your penis or the strength of the springs, so you could have the same person, same length, same device and still get marked tension variation.

Measure the tension it takes to compress your device to the lines marked, don't trust the manufacturer numbers as to how much tension you will be under at each mark as they are always wrong. Then use those marks to stay at a specific tension. Measuring how far you are stretching is of no use.

[monekymindcontrol]

OK, I attempted to do the measurement with a scale – it's impossible to hold it steady enough to be anything near exact, but it looks like in the ballpark of 300 g for the first notch.

My next question is how to adjust the tension. I don't understand why there is both a circular thing at the base of each column that can turn and the extended hexagonal thing with the notches in it, and why they move independently of each other – which do I turn to modify the tension? Am I supposed to keep them together?

If you're wondering why this is all so unclear, I should mention that the only instructions that come the SG device are a DVD that explains exactly nothing about any of this. It mentions "changing the traction" in one sentence but has no information about how to measure it. It doesn't even mention that the device has springs; for the first 2 days I didn't realize that they were there and that I could compress them. I found some manual for some version of the SG device on a third party page:

Sg user manual

This talks about turning the "thumb-screws" (a rather upsetting choice of words...) but doesn't clarify what that means. In the DVD, the hands appear to be turning the hexagonal notched thing directly...

[skunkworks]

Google around for more videos on how to use it, there are quite a few around.

You turn the screws marked 3 and 4 on the second page of that manual you linked. As to them moving around, can't help you with that as I don't have a sizegenetics. I do know with my device I need to keep tightening where the spring rods attach to each other otherwise the whole thing comes apart. If you're reasonably handy you might be well served to take it apart and get a better understanding of how it works.

[J-A]

  Perhaps the Phalosan Forte device would work for traction, as it is a slight hybrid, using vacuum to attach.
[/quote]

Absolutely

I have tried several of the traction devices on the market, I wish I had just bought the Phallosan straight off. Although the most expensive it is the most wearable and comfortable for wearing for extended periods

J

[skunkworks]

The problem with Phallosan is that there are no studies on low tension traction and Peyronie's, that I have seen anyway. We have a bunch with high tension spring loaded devices, but none with elastic all day stretch low tension types. So we don't know if they do anything at all for the condition.

[J-A]

I am using it post op after having the grafting proceedure.

Prior to surgery i used a VED to promote good blood flow