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Author Topic: Peyronie's and abstaining from masturbation with porn induced Erectile Dysfunction  (Read 10907 times)

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Nickpyah

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I'm a 19 year old (a virgin) college student and am going to be trying to reboot myself. I am going to be going 90+days (could be much longer) without masturbation and orgasm after regularly masturbating daily (typically with porn) or more with skipped days here and there. Basically what has led me to do this is because I made out with a girl, her grinding on me though clothed, etc with no real erection. Already that night I was also determined that I would not have sex with her simply because she was not the one, though attractive and beautiful. But I still figured I should have had an erection.

After reading many sites like yourbrainonporn, nofap, rebootnation...
 I performed this test on myself:
    "On one occasion masturbate to your favorite porn (or simply recall it).
    On another masturbate with no porn/porn fantasy. That is, no recalling of porn.

Compare the quality of your erection and the time it took to climax (if you can). A healthy young man should have no trouble attaining a full erection and masturbating to orgasm without porn or porn fantasy.

    If you have a strong erection in #1, but erectile dysfunction in #2, then you have porn-induced Erectile Dysfunction.
    If #2 is strong and solid, but you have trouble with a real partner, then you have anxiety-induced Erectile Dysfunction."

I recalled that I can get strong erections from porn and was able to get an erection and reach orgasm with no porn/fantasy/imagining of ANY mental image. Only the sensation...The erection itself was not that strong (and I had not masturbated for 2 day
s before this)...
It's obviously plausible that I can have both porn induced erectile dysfunction (which varies in severity) and peyronie's disease erectile dysfunction. The bottom line is that I am not going to diagnose myself, I have to go and see a good urologist. To which I will probably have to break my streak of not masturbating which has been 3 days so far and will be 90+ days. To be clear, I don't think I'm addicted to porn because I can quit whenever but when I did masturbate it was often to porn (at the time, I thought it was normal). That's all the media told me... Basically from reading these sites i'm going to abstain from Porn, Masturbation, and Orgasm for quite a while to rewire my brain. Many doctors/urologists are unaware of porn induced Erectile Dysfunction from what I've read (and I can only imagine).

The reason I haven't gone to see a urologist for this sooner is that I've always thought it was a congenital (I still do) upward curve though maybe not (I want/wanted to believe). I also have never had any penile pain and had not known I had a erectile dysfunction (and I still don't). I have heard of many people have "internal scaring" but not diagnosed with peyronies. Also what I have really hasn't gotten worse so that's another reason why I haven't gone.

I still don't understand why but when performing masturbation while sitting on a bed or lying down, I experience curvature (upward) like a banana 60-degrees . While masturbating standing up and outward instead of up, I don't have much curvature at all (still some upward). I haven't heard anyone talk about this or anything. And at this point it has been 18+months since I've noticed this. I've seen pictures between congenital and peyronie's and the keys in identifying the differences but ultimately I would have to see a urologist. as even been 18+ months since my first post and I had those current symptoms before then even. & in all honesty I was waiting til my experience with a girl to decide.

What I am wondering about is how abstaining from masturbation for 90 days to 6 months or so with strong sex drive affects peyronie's/internal scaring which I don't think I have but I will mention it to urologist. So I'm wondering if people with peyronie's have abstained from orgasm/masturbation. Yes, I understand that both masturbation and orgasm are healthy for your prostate. I have heard about alot of stuff - venous leak, etc. Even how masturbation can cause Peyronie's. How would abstaining from masturbation affect someone with peyronie's negatively/positively?

I have also found people on this forum to be knowledgeable so I was wondering how they feel about someone abstaining from Porn, Masturbation, and Orgasm for 90 days to however long it takes to rewire the brain. It seems the research on this for me is never ending and can't really trust the internet. Regardless, I plan on going in to my doctor for a physical in early august just for overall health early (it's been a while) then a good urologist in early august to where I will explain porn induced Erectile Dysfunction and peyronie's disease. I guess my only choice will be to get erect right then and there and stop my rewiring for a bit. Where I will probably be told to masturbate once a week and abstain from porn completely, which sure, I agree with...Except I keep hearing a reboot is needed meaning no PMO for a while.

My main and only question is can anything happen from abstaining from masturbation and orgasm in correlation to peyronie's disease or interal scaring after previously ejaculating regularly. Blue balls is something I will likely experience during my rewiring and I just have the biggest feeling that all that semen not being released could possibly do something damaging when you pair that with peyronie's or internal scaring as wet dreams will be my only way to release unless I have sex with a partner during my reboot which may slow down my brain in adjusting. During this reboot I plan to get my dopemine receptors checked along with testosterone, prostrate cancer, and everything I can.





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vd

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I can relate to your situation. I am trying to go without masturbation in hopes that there will be an improvement in my erections. I don't think it would cause any harm because there isn't any active stress being put on your penis. The only thing I can think of is there being a lack of blood flow to the penis but that shouldn't be a big deal if your having the same quantity of erections but just choosing not masturbate with them. But this is just what I think.

How would abstaining from masturbation affect someone with peyronie's you ask? Well I don't think it cause anything to happen. What it may prevent is further damage to your penis while it has a chance to recover/stabilize (if there is an injury). I say this because rough masturbation is what caused my condition. That is without a doubt. So to me the idea that continuing to do the thing that caused my condition while hoping that it gets better just seems dumb (even if it's done gently). But yea, that's just what's going through my head atm.
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kuaka

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I place at least a portion of the cause of my Peyronies Disease on total abstinence from masturbation, as it manifested shortly after the return of morning wood which had disappeared due to porn induced Erectile Dysfunction.  Erections should be a daily thing, although excessive masturbation has its own issues.  Balance is paramount.
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Jonbinspain

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I suppose you could classify masturbation with VED. Done properly both can be beneficial, done incorrectly, they can both cause damage.
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Nickpyah

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Thanks for the replies, guys. If I do have Peyronies it's past the acute stage (I think). At first I didn't really trust yourbrainonporn because they talk about "proven steps". I just feel like i'm being scammed with all these kind of sites. I'm just skeptical of internet marketers with nofap asking for donations and all the "bro logic" and the clicks they get. But, I decided to go forward with it.. Though I will likely have to masturbate to get my penis erect when I see a peyronie's specialist.

Vd, that's honestly what I thought to but after reading kuaka's reply I think it's best to completely rule out peyronie's before starting a reboot (I should have done this anyway) though I will continue to avoid PMO from now until I get to a specialist. Since i've been avoiding masturbation, I haven't really noticed any erections at all maybe because I'm trying to avoid fantasizing and everything plus I haven't really been out much lately. My mind knows that masturbation is not an option for me.

Thank you so much for the reply Kuaka and I think you have finally motivated me to see a peyronies specialist (which is my next task, finding a good one). Whether I have peyronies, an injury, minor internal scarring or nothing at all.....Those are all still worse then PIED and more immediate. I have gone a week without PMO, although I'm not addicted to porn i've always been able to quit and I don't even think I'm addicted to masturbation. Before this, it was just, why quit? Well because I did not know the negative effects of porn xD
Actually the "PIED test" is a little flawed I think.

That is a very scary thought, and I wish you the best of luck with Peyronies assuming you've been diagnosed and hoping you have gotten over the porn induced erectile dysfunction now. Abstination from masturbation worsening an injury and not healing it is a scary thought. Before starting "a NoFap" seems imperative that I get checked at this point. I'd like to hear more of your story if you'd PM me Kuaka.

Thanks as well Jonbin, hopefully I don't have to go through with VED. I think I remember a thread for finding a good peyronie's specialist in your area, if someone could link that'd be helpful but I think I could very easily do without it. Thanks guys!
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kuaka

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Nicpyah,

When I did the reboot, I chose to deviate from the "total abstinence" a bit in order to facilitate it.  Every forum I was on, which at the time did NOT include nofap, was all about the total abstinence as "the only way" to be successful, but time after time I would read about the "relapse" and failure.  This is an AA style approach, which is VERY DIFFICULT to actually be successful as far as I can tell.  So, I decided to tackle the PMO issue in pieces.

First, no P...ever.  Not even fantasy, which is just P remembered.  I still allowed M to O as much as I wanted. 

Then I started some research into some eastern practices concerning Orgasmic Control.  This was along the lines of Tantric sex, including Solo Tantric practicies...masturbation without orgasm, most of the time.  Now this does have the inherent danger of becoming its own habit, known as "edging", but I used this to change my masturbation habit into more a meditation session.  This worked very well, and I conquered the O of the PMO habit.

At this point, dropping the M was almost easy.  This is what I would do differently, as I would NOT stop the tissue manipulation, which I believe is what allowed the Peyronie's scarring to develop.

If you pursue a "reboot", make it with a great deal of caution.  If you still get or once you get healthy morning wood, you are probably ok, as the tissue needs "exercised" at least daily in that respect. 

The thing you have that I didn't is an awareness of Peyronie's BEFORE venturing into the nofap/reboot process.  I would establish a VED therapy routine of probably twice daily inducing full stretching out of the Tunica while rebooting.

Your mileage may vary, but hindsight is 20/20.

kuaka
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ledder

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Hi,

I have some insights on this topic.

I am a porn addict and have been for 10 to 15 years, from around 20 to now that i am 34.

I tried to quit by myself by not masturbating at all. I once could manage 2 years in relationship without porn (but with Erectile Dysfunction in the final months of the relationship) followed by 6 months of no masturbation at all, and then rellapsed and after two years I would be 6 months without masturbation, but each time the relapses where horrible and I would go on big binges of masturbation that would leave me like a spectre.

I am now one year without masturbation. I have been going to a twelve step program, like AA, but related to sexual addiction. There are many of them. Their approach is different but it is working for me, and that's all I wanted and needed.

As far as I know from what more expert people in the groups say and for what i have and am experiencing, the physical urges are very strong in the first to first and a half month. Then lust waves come, not so physical, more at a mental and emotional level, like thoughts trying to convince me that fantasizing is good, that i deserve a reward, that everybody does it, etc. Each time a wave comes it stays for some days, maybe even a week or two, and then suddenly goes away. At that moment it feels great and a sense of tranquility stays for some days. Of course, eventually a new wave will come and I'll have to deal with it.

I can tell you that I used to be a quite depressive guy and my life was very messed up. My life is still messed up but the depression is gone, though i have better and worse days, but the feeling i had of not wanting to be in my own skin is gently going away, and that is priceless. I am also more focused, can work more ours concentrated, and I am not that much trapped in my emotional states (i am still a lot though!). Also they say that it takes from 3 to 5 years (closer to 5 ;) to be really out of that, which is probably what you mean by rewiring your brain. This I have heard it from the 12 step groups but also from other sources. I myself feel quite good now but still fragile and with the feeling that a relapse would just blow away everything.

To give you an idea of what the addiction meant to me, in my last years, I couldn't masturbate without a sense of guiltiness afterwards, that would not allow me to sleep properly. Even though i knew about it i would masturbate more that once and then not sleep. In the addiction process i had to rely on stronger and stronger videos as time went by, and of course softer and nicer images didnt give me any king of arousal, which was very frustrating because some times i just couldn't find the video that would give me the high. In the end I would have Erectile Dysfunction in my sex relations, even though at that moment i didnt know what exactly it was. I just though that i was not aroused enough, and of course, muy lust expectation level was so high that "simple" sex was just boring. I would have the anxiety and guilt after some relations too. One very strong relapse that i had was after being without masturbation for 6 months: i had sex with a woman, had Erectile Dysfunction, became very frustrated and the sense of guiltiness and anxiety came back again, and next day i was doing hard porn again, which took two more years to quit when i entered the 12th step program. Meanwhile this was all accompanied with depression, self-hatred, tediousness at best, and a deep feeling of hopelessness (not funny at all :P). The addiction affected my socialization skills making me more paranoic and unsociable, and finally leading me to a reclusive life, which feeded the addiction cycle. Of course i would also masturbate for hours at night and then wake up early to go to work, which made my work quality extremelly poor and affected my health, besides stoping the growth of my professional career. I did never resort to prostitution, but it can happen to some people when porn is not enough. Continued years of hard addiction can even lead to more horrible habits.

In order for you to know if you are an addict or not, just try quiting it and see how long can you abstain from it. Another thing is the feeling of powerlessness that you feel that you have over masturbation: Does it control you? Do you do it even when you don't want to? Even if you know that it will do harm to you? Also the feeling of ungovernability: has your addiction made your life unmanageable? have you lost friends for your addiction? are you getting into dangerous situations? Is your life getting at some degree out of control because of the habit?

I won't say porn is bad. I have a friend who makes very funny jokes about his porn habit, and he does not seem bothered at all. I do know that porn is bad for me. That's what matters. I don't want to do porn ever. And I feel so good for not watching that crap again. I am thankful for that and hope I never forget what i have gone through, not so long ago.

I diagnosed myself Peyronies two days ago. I am not sure if my nofap year has affected in any way. What I think triggered the peyronies was a catheter insertion to the bladder i was done three to four weeks before the symptoms started. In this regard I am very interested in what people can say about the correlation between the desiase and nofap.

I hope my testimony can help you.
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kuaka

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ledder,

I was a porn addict...to the point of porn induced Erectile Dysfunction.  I did a modification of the AA style to get over it myself, attacking it in its three parts...Porn, Masturbation and Orgasm...separately.  I have used MO for years for comfort...initially emotionally, then as old injuries started to catch up as physical pain relief.  As the pain of these old injuries escalated...physically, I should have stayed dead in 1981...I had to increase my MO.  As I reached saturation, I added Porn in order to gain the necessary sexual excitement to MO for pain relief.  This of course added up in a couple of years to full blown Porn Induced Erectile Dysfunction...PIED.  On top of this, part of my injuries were to my penis, leaving scarring in the urethra which makes my urine stream a bit of a spray.  There is also some scarring around the circumference near my circumcision scar (just the surface skin for that one...most who are circumcised can see it if they look), and I even thought that I needed to continue manipulation of the tissue to prevent additional scarring.

I am resistant to most chemical pain medications, so I really had only MO for relief.  I finally broke down a couple of years ago and got on some serious pain medication...morphine pills.  I also have a butalbital/codeine pill which I use on top of the morphine to actually make them work...that is how resistant I am to medication.  This enabled me to no longer need MO for pain relief.

I then broke the PMO habit one part at a time.  The P was actually pretty easy to drop, as I had added it only to get more MO for pain relief which was no longer necessary.  I continued to allow myself to MO as I wanted for a while.  I then did some study into some eastern practices...tantric techniques, "male continence" and so forth.  This led me to being able to drop the O after a few weeks.  Now M without O became a meditative practice, and in retrospect I should have continued that.  In my zeal to complete get over the PMO habit, I stopped the M sans-O as well.  About six months after that, morning wood returned.  This is "normal" for one getting over PIED.  A couple of months after that, I was extremely surprised by the sudden onset of Peyronie's...classic upward bend of near 45 degrees, with dimpling at the bend.

Not even knowing what it was for certain, I immediately set about putting together a traction device...you can see it in the Home Made Traction Device thread in that area.  After only a week or so of using this, the dimples and extreme pain during erection went away.  I then found this forum, and set about making a VED...you can see it in the appropriate thread here as well.  Based on the experience I have read about here, I have been doing Pentox/Cialis (can't afford more right now...) and the L-Arginine/L-Carnatine/Citruline-Maleate etc...supplements. 

I have made some progress in the last few months...only have pain on extremely strong erections, and degree is about 40 now...but still too painful for penetration.

In retrospect, I believe that by completely stopping tissue manipulation, I facilitated the scarring which is now Peyronie's.  It is entirely possible that had I stayed with the tantric masturbation/meditation I would NOT have developed the plaque...but it is somewhat conjecture on my part.  I'm not often incorrect about that sort of thing though.

I also have been a chondroitin/glucosamine user for years due to joint issues in both knees which had me wheel chair bound 20+ years ago.  I understand that that "supplement" can contribute to fibrosis in general and Peyronie's in particular.  With a lifelong masturbation habit, the joint supplement and the injuries to my penis, it is nothing short of amazing that I didn't develop Peyronie's earlier...which only further convinces me that if I had continued the manipulation, I would have NOT developed it.

I have suggested on the nofap group that Peyronie's is a potential side effect of complete abstinence, but it has not been received with "open arms"...

kuaka
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ledder

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Thank's Kuaka, for your reply.

The timing of your peyronies appearance after nofap is almost like mine, though i do not remember if i didn't have morning woods. I do know now that i have them  and they are a bit painful because of peyronies, specially when the erection is most extreme and if i tense my pelvic musles. I can cope with it, but it's not fun at all. I would say my curvature is around 45 degrees, but when i want to measure it the woody just goes away too fast  :'( .

The relation between peyronies and no masturbation is very interesting. I have not had time to do any prospection over the internet about it. Would be good to know if there is any doctor around that has studied total abstinence in masturbation and orgasm and its consequences. I can try to see in my groups if there is a higher incidence of peyronies between long-term nofap people, but i am not sure they would be willing to give that information.

The best way to move from a conjecture to reliable information would be to do the simple maths, but we need data for that. In the wikipedia it is stated that the 5% of US men have Peyronies. We should find the proportion of people with peyronies and nofap within a nofap group of people (but with some consistent nofap lentgh, maybe 9 months and on), then we could compare. I guess we should find at least 50 men, but i am not that sure about this value, i'll try to do some math another day, cause i do not know much about statistics. I'll also try to ask in my group, just to give it a try. We could try to ask in a nofap forum, do you think that is possible? I have never been in those. That would be the best source of information.
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kuaka

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I have found more men with similar stories.  While anecdotal in nature, I believe there is some validity.  Masturbation as a habit can easily introduce micro injuries, which will create scar tissue.  If this tissue is allowed to form without disturbance, it is logical for it to form in what can be termed the plaque of Peyronie's...obviously not the ONLY cause, but I believe it likely to be "a" cause.
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james1947

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  • Age 71. Peyronies from January 2009

As an introductory, this topic has ended
Please continue the conversation on the adequate boards

James
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Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum
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