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QuoteLiam - I reject your criteria for Peyronies Disease. You started by expressing the fact that if it gets better that it can be assumed it was not Peyronies Disease. Now you seem to expand that to say that you think if it ever stabilizes that it was not Peyronies Disease.
QuoteBottom line, there may be a host of things that determine if we can actually feel the plaque but if there is a curve, we don't have to wonder it is there.
QuoteWhat causes the bend if not plaque (palpable or otherwise)?
Quote from: Liam on July 31, 2007, 08:23:27 AM2)Trauma that directly compromised tissue of the penis causing a curve. - Lacerations, abrasions, burns, body modification (art) etc. - no Peyronies Disease
Quotepatients operated for lateral curvature, the tissue was excised from the lateral corpus cavernosum.
Quote from: George999 on July 31, 2007, 04:29:52 PMIn other words, could it be that a man with an outwardly normal penis is actually extremely vulnerable from any tiny degree of trauma due to preexisting abnormalities in his tunica?
QuoteAll the while realizing that other non-thickened abnormal tissue in the tunica could be causing deformity. In the case of congenital issues, the differentiating factor is that the tissue in question is NOT abnormal. Rather it is ONLY asymmetric in dimension.Thus what marks Peyronies is the abnormality of the tissue composition, not whether or not it is palpable or whether or not it is considered to be "plaque". I suppose that it could all be classified as some form of "scar tissue", perhaps Tim could comment further on that.
QuoteThe only thing that is remarkable about plaque is that it is palpable (ie thickened). That does not mean that non-palpable tissue is normal. If one develops a bend in the penis, or a dent, without a plaque, that is still Peyronie's Disease.
QuoteDiabetes mellitus produces significant adverse effects on the hemodynamic mechanism of clitoral engorgement and leads to diffuse clitoral cavernous fibrosis in a rabbit model.
QuoteRESULTS: The histological results were normal in 12 (38.7%) patients, while in 19 (61.3%) cases the findings indicated fibrosis of tunica albuginea. No significant difference in the patients age was found between these two groups (p = 0.09). The analysis of a total number of histological results of the patients with tunica albuginea fibrosis in relation to the patients with normal results showed that there was no significant difference (chi2 = 1,2; df = 1; p > 0.05), suggesting that the macroscopically normal tunica albuginea is not always expected to yield normal histological resultAre these just biomarkers for Peyronies Disease?
QuoteSo, if the curve is caused by fibrotic tissue, it is Peyronies Disease.
Quotethey may be just 2 expressions of the same disease.
QuoteI have softened my view about palpable plaque, although no one here with Peyronies Disease has said they have NON palpable plaque. "Hard to find" was the strongest descriptor I've seen. With the feeling going away in my fingertips, though, I can imagine....maybe....someone couldn't feel the altered tissue.
QuoteI cannot fathom the difficulty in accepting that some abnormalities of tissue structure may not be palpable through a layer of skin by a human finger.
QuoteDefinitionPeyronie's disease is a primary and progressivefibroblast proliferation of the albuginea of thepenis. It could also involve the corpus cavernosumand the septum in the later stages. Collagen andcalcium deposition are accompanying patterns.This last phenomenon provokes penile curving,which may affect vaginal penetration.
Quote from: Liam on August 01, 2007, 02:57:50 PMNow my one remaining outlier view is there is no spontaneous recovery. FIRE AWAY!!!
Quote...but some doctors hold onto theories so hard that if something happens that does not support their theory, they claim it must be something else