Traction

[newguy]

No reply to my theoretical though in the other thread, but thinking about it, it's probably more suited to this section. With all of this talk of prolonged (in terms of time) tension, lets say a device came on the market that allowed a person to achieve an almost full, but gentle stretch for the entire waking day, do you think for those in the very early stage of peyronies, that this would massively reduce less of length in such people? I'm of the belief that the current traction methods avaialble will be superceeded by improved models in the future, so am interested to get a take on what people think the consequence of this could be.

[Old Man]

Note to all using traction:

Recently, I ran across an old National Geographic Magazine in a doctor's office. There was a very interesting article in it about a tribe of people somewhere in the islands of the southern Pacific where having a large and long penis showed "royalty". The man who developed the largest one usually became the guru of the tribe with regard to increasing sizes.

The article described how the men of the tribe got their penises to become rather large and elongated. The basic principle they used was to put weights on the penises of the young males. The weight was increased as the young became older until their reached the age of puberty and beyond.

The results were fantastic in some cases and in others there was very little change in the size or shape or the penises. So, it goes to support the claim of traction helping with regaining dimensions lost due to Peyronies Disease, ED or any other trauma to one's penis.

Just thought that I would throw this out in case someone wanted to follow up and research anything relative to traction helping with Peyronies Disease, etc.

Old Man

[newguy]

The results were fantastic in some cases and in others there was very little change in the size or shape or the penises. So, it goes to support the claim of traction helping with regaining dimensions lost due to Peyronies Disease, ED or any other trauma to one's penis.

Just thought that I would throw this out in case someone wanted to follow up and research anything relative to traction helping with Peyronies Disease, etc.

Old Man

A different system but it's not a world away from the golf weights idea I mentioned a year or so ago. I very nearly went ahead with trying this out, but it received a rather mystified response from this board, so I ended up going the traditional fastsize route. As luck (or rather lack of) would have it, I ended up injurying myself with the fastsize, I suspect in my enthusiasm to progress or stretch a little further than I should have.

I think there is great potential in using traction with a relatively light weight over a long period of time per day. As stated previously, for those in early stage peyronies, I personally believe that it could be a revelation to allow them to stay in a stretched state for long periods of time.

Of course as always it comes down to safety and comfort issues. Since those with peyronies are perhaps susceptible to injuries anyway, caution has to be taken not to make a bad situation worse. Especially with new treatments around the corner, it's all about finding a balance.

[Old Man]

newguy:

I did not say that I would be a candidate for the traction method. Have a very sensitive groin area anyway and don't think that it would tolerate much traction weight. It has seen a lot of mileage with penile injections, x-ray bombardments and various other forms of so called treatment.

Would be interested in getting replies from those on the forum using weights, traction and any other elongating method being used for Peyronies Disease. It might have merit since I know that stretching with the VED over an extended period of time does help with Peyronies Disease symptoms.

Old Man

[worried]

Well here i am... I just got diagnosed and have yet to start anything ( doc prescribed e , potaba, topical verapamil and cialis...he said it is expensive, a lot of work and dedication for a long time, none of it will work, any minimal improvement will likely be in your head as wishful thinking and that there is a surgery he does when it has "stabalized" but that is no walk in the park either.  He said he was telling me like it is....

anyway... I have not done anything yet and just starting to "bend" this week after months of "hourglass"  what would the expereinced readers or users or patients here reccomend I do first.

also anyone know a better doc in NYC area ( milhall?) is all I found on-line that seemed to offer any more hope.  I feel cursed Iguess... I am fit and have no other medical issues or take any other meds...

Yes I have read and read and read and that is why I have yet to fill the perscriptions or do anything as it is all contradictory and confusing for a newbie..BUT I have to start somewhere so I might as well benefit from others and not reinvent the "expensive" wheel..please help.

[Old Man]

worried:

Welcome to the forum. You have come to a place that you can share your concerns and there is help for you. You just have to hang in there and don't get so deeply discouraged that it affects your thinking.

The doctor you are probably thinking about in the NY area is Dr. John Mulhall. He is considered one of the better urologists in that area. He is on the staff of the Cornell University Urology department. Some of us on the forum have been in contact with him via emails and he has responded to them. So if you look up the Cornell University web site, you will find his bio there and possibly a link to his email.

At this point in time, you are very upset, deeply concerned about your penile health and just downright disgusted with the whole mess called Peyronies Disease. However, as one who has been there and done that several times since my first bout with Peyronies Disease, I know how your are feeling. The first thing you need to do is realize that you have this mess and that you should get started on some form of therapy for it. Keeping a positive attitude is half of the battle. It is hard to do, but you must do just that - keep a good attitude.

There are many and varied "treatments/therapy" that we on the forum have tried and are still trying. Look up the threads with titles that you may have interest in and browse through them one post at a time. You will find a wealth of information on just about any phase of Peyronies Disease that has been presented. Browsing through all the topics and threads will occupy your mind and that alone will help you cope with the situation.

Look up the Child Boards link on the Home Page of the forum site. You will find a listing of all the topics and threads listed. Under the link to the main forum, there is where the Child Boards link is shown. Click on it and browse through all the sub links there and select any one that interests you. This board has many posts combined into one location that makes it easier to find the one you are looking for.

We are all here to help in any way we can, so feel free to address anyone at any time on any subject and I am sure you will get a response promptly.

Again, welcome, just keep the faith and something good will happen for you.

Old Man

[worried]

Thank OM... suport and encouragment are 90%.  THis forum is doing exactly what it is supposed to do , proved impt. info quickly , save us time and money and injury and provide comfort and community.  this is aawful stuff and I appreciate your words of support that I have to deal with it and denial is not going to work..

[Ironman]

I write this on the brink of buying a Fastsize(r), so I am not evincing skepticism for its own sake (tho that can be fun).

Fastsize website says:

"The constant stretch forces the body to adapt. During the stretching, your body will be reacting to it. When it gets to the plaque, your body will naturally attack the plaque buildup and with the help of the device cause a painless and gradual breakup of the scarring. This method has been shown to work in 100% of patients tested."

For me the conflation (if not the inflation) of penis length with Peyr "plak" is not helpful. I keep thinking: quackery. I'll point out--tell me what you think--the god.damn plak IS the adaptation. I got Duyp too, and this is an "adaption" my hand made to my playing giant keyboard intervals in stride piano style--face it son, you aint Tatum--and also impossibly wide chords on the guitar. And, like the great Eric Dolphy, tho not so bad, I got a lipoma on my forehead, and this an "adaptation" to banging my head (twice) against the car's trunk door ...

The Peyronied penis has already "adapted", I fear. This does not preclude a countervaling adaptation, promised by Fastsize and Levine (let us not yet call him Fast Larry), but as one member posted, in paraphrase, it may be just as effective to bend the penis forward, downward, in a position that (more or less) isolates and bends mostly the plak, and to hell with the traction.  I saw somewhere--on a competing traction gadget website, I think-- "examples" of socially sanctified "stretching", and I for one DO NOT find horribly disfigured Ubangi lips and earlobes to be a good marketing motivator)

My next question is: if "the body" makes such a maneuver, this "adaptation" to the traction, do you really think it will (that is, CAN it) then replace this "broken" scar tissue, this plak, this fibrin, this collagen, with healthy normal cells? This is a gargantuan feat requiring nothing short of STEM cell therapy...

I would like to mention, at risk of moving slitely OT, that if the "breakup" of plak is the goal of traction--and NOT a longer shlong--than where does that leave the Lariche method? which directly--do not pass go with your puny stretching machine-- breaks up the plak by twiddling it with a needle . On the web seminar given by Mulhall and Levine I asked for a comment on the Lariche technique, and Levine didnt really address it, plus or minus. Said the method copied methods used in breaking plak for cardiovascular plak.

One more thawt along this line: perhaps constant injections of Verapamil, and the infusion of a liquid, any liquid--and plain water comes to mind-- is perhaps the main operating principle of injection therapy for Peyr. That is, poking the plak with a needle, and inflating it with a liquid breaks up the plak.

Meanwhile, God help me, put me down for one Fastsize, sent in a plain brown box ...

[jackisback]

Hilarious post, Ironman.

I plan to spend the weekend largely reading up on Thundersplace to try to figure out the best ADS (All Day Stretching device). I need something concealable, and you'll notice in the studies for FastSize it will always say that it worked best with those who used it 8 hours a day or more. This isn't close to a realistic goal for me for something that is not concealable.

I hope that stem cell research can do something (of course i dont think a massive stem cell grant will go into Peyronie's specifically, but that doesn't mean the Peyronie's cure won't come from stem cell research). Thankfully, it has been stated as one of the first things Mr. Obama wants to reverse.

[mikesb]

Did anyone ever receive a kit from Robert Allen/Gibson or any other communication?

[Hawk]

Welcome to the forum.

I particularly enjoyed your post on several levels.

[mikesb]

So as I scan through this lengthy thread I surmise that traction works for 50% of the utilizers here about 50% of the time, fixes 50% of the curve gives  (at least temporarily) about 50% of the manufacturers promised length and girth gains, and all of this only if you use it religiously for 6-8 hours a day over many many months with quite a bit of glans discomfort. Is that about right?

I value the opinions given here far more than any other place....

[Old Man]

mikesb:

IMHO, you just about summed up the results in your post.

Old Man

[jackisback]

Hey Mike, life's been keeping me busy. Unfortunately I haven't been able to get around to really researching that, but other members on the forum have. I believe Tim said that he used one, although I believe he noticed little if any success.

From what I've read on Thunder's Place, this seems to be the most popular one: http://www.autoextender.com/autoadh.html although I'm not sure that anyone has had any real results from it or not. I've not had the ability to sift through it all yet.  From what i've read it seems a lot of people believe in making their own device, which given my skills, i do not. If I had to guess, I'd say I'll end up buying that autoextender, but i'm not ready to make that purchase yet.

[Tim468]

I used the traction device made by this guy you linked to. I have not found it easy to make time to wear it although it is the most reasonable in terms of wearability under clothing IMHO.

Because the clamp (I do not see it advertised there right now) seemed to trigger some inflammation for me, I would advise caution in anyone who has active disease in terms of the *interface* - that it, the place the traction device clamps onto the end of the penis. No matter what technique is used, there is going to be the potential for trauma to the end of the shaft where the clamp, noose, sling or whatever is used to grasp the end of the penis to apply traction. For me, that seemed to make my Peyronie's more active, so I went back to the less traumatic (for me) VED.

Tim

[joe]

@ mikesb re Robert Allen

Did anyone ever receive a kit from Robert Allen/Gibson or any other communication?

I came here to ask the same thing..  He emailed me on 8/15 asking for an address to ship to and I replied.  I emailed him again on 10/2 to ask if I should have received anything in the mail but got no response.  Anyone else?  

Robert, are you out there?  I understand if there are things keeping you busy just let us all know.  

[wayne999]

Do the clinical study results at http://www.sizegenetics.com/medically_backed.html#clinicalstudies
seem legitimate? This kinda backs up the pilot study by Levine (he had 10 patients), all seemed to make some length gains and also experiecned various degrees of curvature reduction. Interestingly that site also claims that it has been "clinically proven" to work for congenital/natural curves as well. You would think from reading all of this that traction is the magical cure ?

I was also wondering how the pressure or stretching force differs between VED and traction? It seems to get results with traction you need to apply it for 6-8 hours a day for like 6 months......whereas for VED it is suggested to be only 10-40min per day for maybe 6-12 months? I wonder what the implications of these different forces/applicaiton procedures are for curvature reduction ?

[Old Man]

wayne999:

The basic difference between traction and VED usage is the principle they operate upon. VEDs use negative vacuum pressure to pull blood into the corpora in several different ways based on the type of VED being used. Traction applies stretching pressure by pulling the entire penis outward from the body for extended periods of time with varying types of devices. This does not pull blood flow into the corpora so it does not apply stretching forces to those chambers, only pulls the entire penis to a stretched position.

Others, I am sure, will give different explanations of their differences. The above is just my quick version of their differences. The benefits of both types of therapy have been given in many posts on this forum, so I won't elaborate of that here.

Old Man

[Hawk]

I somewhat agree with what Old Man said except that in reality traction does not apply tension to the entire penis.  When traction stretching a penis with plaque, the plaque limits how far you can stretch the penis in a straight line.  In other words the plaque becomes tight before the normal tissue even has a good stretch applied to it.  This is because the penis is pulled perfectly straight.  In a severe case the rest of the penis tissue would have no stretch applied.

A single chamber VED stretches healthy and plaque tissue thus we see a pronounced bend, indent, etc while engorged in the VED.  Multi-chamber VEDs attempt to do what traction does and focus the stretching on the plaque or short side of the penis by keeping it straight.

Traction applies a more sustained gentle stretch (hours not minutes)

VED increases blood flow which is probably important for those that cannot get natural erections to oxygenate the blood.

Hope this helps!

Hawk

[wayne999]

Also, do you think there would be benefit of doing traction for only 1 or 2 hours a day for longer than 6mths (say 12 or 18mths) ? I know Levine mentioned somewhere in some article that those who used it for 4 or 5 hours a day seemed to have better results over the 6 month trial but I don't unfortuntately have that much free time every day. I'm very confused now about whether to head down this traction path or VED path.

I noticed that at http://www.fitzz.com/AndroMedical-Andro-Penis-Enlargement-Device_p_1984.html
they claim that the same results can be achieved with 2 hours every day for 12 months or 12 hours a day for 2 months. Yet, later on in the article they suggest using it for 9 hours a day. Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

This sort of leads me to what i was previously hinting at, which is if VED can work with only 20min a night for 6-12months, why does traction need so much more time when traction applies the greater stretching force ?

[bodoo2u]

Fellas,

What do you think about the Autoextender maker's claim that we should perform short, extensive stretches to cause micro-tears and then use an All Day Stretcher so we heal in an extended state?  

We highly recommend that you use Vacu-hanger or PE-Extender or VacExtender 2 for max stretching (short but intense sessions) follow by AutoADS for light stretching (package pricing is available). With this combination, you are able to stretch your ligs (micro tears) and maintain the gain by healing in extended state.

It seems kind of dangerous for a Peyronies sufferer. I do like the idea of the ADS (All Day Stretcher), with minimum force, of course.

[Old Man]

wayne999:

You need to go back and read posts 468 & 469 again which pretty much sum up the differences with the two devices. Each have their place in Peyronies Disease therapy, but use different approaches for their end results.

Old Man

[jackp]

Micro Tears scare me. When I was in the hospital in August the doctors punctured my esophagus and said it way a micro tear.
This tear caused my left lung to collapse and my heart to go into A-Fib. Over 4 months now and I am still disabled because of the Meds for A-Fib caused by a micro tear.
Jackp

[wayne999]

Traction applies a more sustained gentle stretch (hours not minutes)

So you're implying that there is a lower strecthing force for traction than the VED? This is why tractions is done for hours and not minutes? This seems to contradict Tim468's post in the congenital curvature thread that traction would apply a higher force.

I'm also interested to hear someone's thoughts about "I noticed that at http://www.fitzz.com/AndroMedical-Andro-Penis-Enlargement-Device_p_1984.html
they claim that the same results can be achieved with 2 hours every day for 12 months or 12 hours a day for 2 months. Yet, later on in the article they suggest using it for 9 hours a day. Does anyone have any thoughts about this?"

[Tim468]

BooDoo,

The guy who makes the Autoextender has some good ideas, but he is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. His understanding of what actually happens physiologically is next to nothing.

Tim

[wayne999]

To add a bit more to my last post, I noticed that some of the data used to back up traction mentions the total number of hours the devices were used - so I am wondering if you need to do 10+ hours a day in 6 months in order to "shock" the penis into growing... i.e. a few hours a day over a year or something might make the penis get "used" to traction and not get "shocked" into growth ?

Also what's the go with Robert Allen - seemed like he was onto something and then no trace.

EDIT:
The data I refer to is http://www.sizegenetics.com/medically_backed.html#clinicalstudies
and it states the total number of hours used for traction was 1100. However I think that is the average, as i have found the same data being used but for a different (named) product: http://www.proextendersystem.com/results.html?ss=6c87f99f3941bab1827945e1e24b4754

Isn't it odd that all these different products claim they were the original items in the Tractive Elongation of the Penis by Means of Stretching by Jørn Ege Siana, MD, Scandinavian Clinic of Plastic Surgery, Copenhagen. Would anyone know where to find the original copy of this document

EDIT2:
http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20080276944
Could that be Robert Allen ?

[Tim468]

I do not think that shocking the tissue makes physiologic sense to me. I think slow and steady makes the most sense. As for Robert Allen (is he the guy who had a cure-all device that he was going to test market here?), I do not think he is real interested in participating in discussions here, but is more interested in doing his own thing. If what he wants to do works, then I hope we hear about it.

Tim

[Attica!]

   Hello all. I have been monitoring this forum for over a year and have just now officially joined. My experience with traction started on September 17, 2007 when my FastSize device arrived via UPS. (I took the arrival to be providential as it was the same day I had gotten my official diagnosis of Peyronie's from my urologist.)
  As of this date I have worn the device for 1170 hours. I started with an erect-length penis of 6.5 inches and 5.5 inches girth. The Peyronie's scar was slightly smaller than the size of a regular U.S. postage stamp (say, 3/4" x 3/4"). The scar was located on the top of the shaft, directly in the middle at the line where the circumsized head meets the shaft. I am no good at figuring degrees, but the initial bend upwards and curve to the left was not too bad. There was no pain whatsoever, oddly enough it felt sort of numb; or if not numb, a bit like it wasn't there.
  Now after my 1170 hours of torture...err, I mean traction, I have an erect length of almost 5.5 inches, but the girth is now 6.5 inches. I also take 400 iu of vit. E and 2-3 grams of L-Arginine daily. The scar has "remodeled" as longer and thinner. Say a bit over an inch in length and varying in width from about 1/4" to 1/2". The curve to the left is hardly notable, but the bend upwards is now quite pronounced. As I said, I am no good at degrees, but if looking at a clock face my bend would be about 2:00. Also, a surprising result has been an solid, stiff erection almost every morning upon waking. (This hasn't happened since my teenage days, I am now 55. But, I also, thankfully, have had no problems with ED.) The morning erections started about 3-4 months into traction treatment.
  So, I got a gain in girth but the traction was unable to stop loss of length. Or was it? Perhaps, I would have lost more length. I will never know.
  I joked about it being "torture" but it really isn't that bad once you get used to it. At first I followed the FastSize protocol about gradually adding the lengthening bars but when it got to the point of a 6.5" stretch that was very uncomfortable. The pain, by the way, comes from the hard plastic base digging like fire ants into the base of the penis. I never had any of the oft reported problems of soreness at the head. I use a lot of the cushioning foam. I cut back to a 6" stretch and have kept it there for about the past 8 months.
  At the moment I work at home (That will change very soon as my small literary press has gone belly up and I will have to look for a real job. I having been honing my job skills by practicing  saying "Welcome to WalMart" and "Would you like fries with that?"), so wearing the traction device was no problem for me. But, I do not see how in the world anyone could wear it in public. I guess if you wore a kilt; no way was I ever able to wear it with even loose fitting slacks. I just wore flannel lounge pants. And as far as being able to wear it nine hours a day (with a minimum 20 minute break every two hours) that is simply not possible. With all due respect to Dr. Levine's study, I don't believe it.
  Two days ago I ordered the Vitality 3 cylinder VED from Fitzz. They are still offering a 10% discount, just type in TEAM at the check-out.
  As, I said I am a new member. I have been meaning to join for quite some time, I want to thank all of the members of this board for your time in sharing your collective wisdom. This board has been an oasis in hell.
   

[Old Man]

Attica:

Welcome to the main forum. Glad that you were monitoring it for so long. And, I am sure that you would have learned more had you joined officially and participated in posting results as they occurred for you.

Keep us up to date on how your traction is still progressing. In addition, let us know if the VED therapy works for you too. We are very interested in knowing any and all therapies/exercises that help with either ED or Peyronies Disease, but primarily Peyronies Disease. The protocol for the three cylinder VED is posted on the child boards section on the home page. Look for the link just under the link to the main forum.

Old Man

[wayne999]

I wanted to share this message i got from Tim468, in regards to using traction for a few hours a day for a long time vs lots of hours in fewer months:

"The only way that it is not the same is in the fact that skin and tissue has elastic properties that promote a return to the original shape (a property that gets worse with age!!).Thus, I think that a longer and more sustained stretch would work better to remodel tissue than the same total amount of stretch applied in brief bits at a time. The longer period of stretch allows for less recovery to the original shape."

I was wondering, doesn't this imply then that whatever strecthing occurs during VED routines, it quickly goes back to normal given the average session is only 10 or 20 minutes per night?


EDIT:
Also interesting is this (has photos from the Levine study)
http://www.big-penis.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6626

There are also other interesting threads in that forum.

[Tim468]

Hi,

In followup, as mentioned in my other PM, I think that stretching out scar may be different than stretching out normal tissue.

Tim

[jackisback]

Hey Tim,

You mentioned the Autoextender you believed caused trauma or inflammation to your plaque on the point of contact where it harnessed you. Did you ever try the other product you linked to, the Static Stretcher. This product looks to quell that issue best as it wraps around the entire penis. I'm assuming you never tried it though.  It looks like it could feasibly work, however, like most things in this field, it probably doesn't.

As for what someone said about a discrepancy in time, i may have said before, but i think it's just marketing. if you put a product out and say any use is good, then it's easy to come back and say to people with little to negligible results, "well the best results are from people who wear it 8 hours a day" (a task which is not possible for most people--for the kinds of traction devices that cannot be worn discretely in public that is)

[wayne999]

I was also wondering if the Andro device off of fitzz.com is the same as the Fast Size device? The guys over at the fast size forum obviously claim that the FS is the legiitimate and all others are rip offs.........but if im going to order a VED from fitzz it would be lower shipping costs if i also ordered the Andro device from them. From the pictures, all these devices look to be very similar if not identical. I suppose a key thing is which one is best for gripping the head of the penis, as there seems to be some people with irritation issues etc. suggestions ?

[Attica!]

Wayne,
  Although I have not seen the Andro device in the flesh (so to speak) it appears to me to be almost exactly like the FastSize. So much so that I am surprised one company hasn't sued the other. (Gawd, I hope that doesn't give them litigious thoughts. The last thing we need is a battle for penile supremacy.) The Andro is selling on Fitzz for (I believe) $199.00. FastSize lists for $299.00, but they currently have it on sale for $249.00. I bought the FastSize in September 2007 for the full price. If I were buying today, I would get the Andro from Fitzz.

[wayne999]

Attica:
Is it easy to get spare parts, support, etc. from Andro? The FS guys say that Andro is a Spanish company so it will be harder to order spare parts from them or get help etc. ??

Also for anyone wearing a traction device, it says if you are sitting down a lot you need to have modified stretches?? How so?

[Attica!]

Wayne,
  As far as getting spare parts from Andro, I have no idea. Although on the fitzz site they list a few spare parts. But, as spare parts go, unless you lose something, it's not like you need to keep replacing parts. My FastSize is a quality built device. (It oughta be for what they charge.) They only things that I can see you would need to replace are the foam cushion pads and the silicone bands. I have had my FS for over a year and have only had the use one additional foam pad. They give you a package of four. The key, I think, is to wash the pads and bands often with anti-bacterial soap and air dry. Plus, I can't say for abso-dang-lutely positive but I bet that the FastSize bands and pads would fit the Andro.
  Now as far as sitting and "modified stretches", I don't know what they are talking about. Depending on the degree of intensity that you are stretching, sitting in the traction device is very uncomfortable. And I now have logged in 1170+ hours of traction, so I can state that with a degree of certainty. I find it best to lay on the bed and read or watch TV/DVD. I remember once I took the trash out while I was wearing it and the little knob came off and it slipped off and fell out my pants leg (I was wearing cargo shorts). Thank God no one was around. Would have been mucho embarassing. I read a post on the FastSize message boards about a guy that had his own while driving and got stopped by a cop and had to get out of the car and the thing was bulging, etc. Pretty funny.
  These traction devices are not the ultra-concealable, you-barely-know-you-have-it-on things the manufacturers would have you believe. They are cumbersome, clunky and cold. Very cold. But, having said all that, I definitely think they are worth the trouble and I will continue to use mine until I have a reason not to. Which I hope is very soon.
  I think one of the most important aspects of traction/VED is that you are actually doing something physical (as opposed to taking medications) to rectify the problem. It is a therapy that you are in control of. You don't have to ask for a prescription, ask a Doctor, get somebody's permission, etc. Call it Personal Penis Empowerment. How's that for a mission statement?
  So, I wouldn't micro-think this to death, just get a traction device of whichever brand you feel most confident and begin the long stretch towards home.  

[wayne999]

Attica,

With 1170+ hours logged, have you experienced any improvements in curvature, length or girth? What was your average daily usage (did you accrue the 1170+ few hours a day over a long time or many hours per day over fewer months ) ?

Also, the video at http://www.fastsize.com/products/fastsize-extender/video-promotional.php   shows the device being worn, i don't see why sitting down would be a problem. Can you please elaborate more on using the device like this and why it would be painful? Also is it easy to wear the device "upwards" (i have a downward curve so wondering if this might help me more) ?

Would you also mind sharing any problems you've had with the device? (some people say wear it grips the head of the penis it can cause numbness, "cold head", blisters, prolonged soreness etc.)

Thanks!

[Hawk]

I won't elaborate more than I have in this topic but the X4 traction device has the option of the classic noose or the wider comfort strap.  I have used both.  I think this option is a huge advantage over what I see as otherwise almost identical devices.

[wayne999]

Hawk,

Please let us know how long you have been using the device, results and everything else I have basically asked Attica!  
Some other PE guys said they didn't see much difference with the comfort strap, can you please comment more on this as it may very well influence my decision ?

I've been browsing several PE forums over the last few days and have come into contact with some people who have said they have helped reduce their Peyronies Disease and even natural curves using devices like FS (apparently a 50% natural curve greatly improved with 4 hours a day use over 2.5 years).

I won't elaborate more than I have in this topic but the X4 traction device has the option of the classic noose or the wider comfort strap.  I have used both.  I think this option is a huge advantage over what I see as otherwise almost identical devices.

[Attica!]

Wayne,
  First, scroll down this page to post #478, that will answer a lot of your questions. As to the gains in girth, I went from 5.5" to 6.5" at erection. But, it is a graduated gain. At the base up to about an inch on the shaft, it is 6.5" then slowly begins to taper off until it is still 5.5" at the top. I think the Peyronies Disease scar kept it from being 6.5 all over.
  As far as discomfort when sitting, I can only say what I know from my experience. It ain't comfortable to me. Others may feel differently. I think it would be a bit more uncomfortable to wear the device in the upward position, but since you have no choice you will get used to it. As I said previously, you really need to be motivated with these things.
  As far as length of time wearing, it just depended on what I had to do on any given day. I think the most I ever wore it was six hours. I probably have averaged about 2.5 hours a day. Then there were also times, whole weekends, etc. when I was traveling or it just wasn't convenient to wear it.
   Any numbness in the head, coldness, etc., comes from having the straps too tight. There is a learning curve (no pun intended) to all of these things, be it  traction, VED or whatever.
  You will be able to figure it out.  

[Hawk]

Wayne,

I wish I could make this a little less work for you but I do not want to rehash what I have posted.

I began traction not only as a treatment for me but with the intent to provide a concise log with a large amount of objective measurements.  I hoped this would be a significant contribution to the Peyronies Disease community.  Click on this link for one of my last posts on this prematurely aborted undertaking.

If you are highly interested in traction, you can read all 5 pages of posts in this topic or read the highlights in our "Newly Diagnosed" Child board.

You can also just read my traction posts if interested in my experience.

Unfortunately I have failed at fulfilling my good intentions.  It is not due to general lack of interest or any disillusionment with traction.  Like others, I have a life.  My life threw a couple big changes at me that did not fit into my plans.  Traction became unworkable and a low priority at least for now.

[LWillisjr]

LoveMyHusband,

I may be biased because Dr. Levine is my urologist. I use the traction at his recommendation. I ended up requiring surgery, performed by Dr. Levine and am pleased with the results. He is a great doctor, very compasionate, and a very good track record. I stack him up against any urologist for Peyronies.

I continue to use the traction device as a follow up from surgery to regain some length lost due to the surgery. I'm not opposed to VEDs and clearly some guys here have had success with here with them. So maybe both methods are valuable. There is no study that I am aware of that compares VEDs vs. traction devices so it is going to be very difficult to say one is better over the other.

[bassman]

Has anyone used or heard of this device = http://www.sizegenetics.com/curvatures.html

Bassman

[Old Man]

bassman:

To me the picture shows just about the same type of traction device that some guys on the forum are using. Looks like it may present a different approach to the fasterner for the head portion of one's penis. It might be less irratating to use.

Old Man

[Hawk]

I have the wide comfort strap.

As far as I know, the X4 is the only device that allows you to use either the wide comfort strap or the noose.  The others tend to provide one or the other.

[wayne999]

Apparently the fast size guys are coming out with a whole new type of design for their product in April '09, which is suppose to be "revolutionary" in how it does the stretching, contact with the glans etc. Btw, If anyone is considering buying a fast size now, you can get a 25% discount using a code (msg me).

Interestingly on the size genetics website i found this:
http://www.sizegenetics.com/studies/curvature/essir2.pdf

"In the same report, Wendy Hurn provides details of several case studies including a man who saw a 20 degree decrease in his curvature.."

However, the report says nothing about improvement in curve, only about stretched length. Does anyone know where you can find the full copy of these medical journal entries? Maybe Tim468 or George999 have access to them? (I know that when i searched for some you only get abstracts.....you need to have passwords,accounts, etc  to get full versions of the reports).

[Hawk]

I will be shocked if the revolutionary redesign is anything more than a change of noose to strap or some such that is far from revolutionary (marketing word).  

The principle is tension.  You can argue strong tension or light all-day tension but there are only so many ways to hook tension to a penis.  Nooses, wide straps, suction caps, and self clinging wraps are already out there.

[Attica!]

   I agree with Hawk. The only method of stretching that hasn't been used yet is magnetism. And no way could that be done. I will hold my final judgement until I actually see the new Son of FastSize, but I think it's just a marketing ploy to have you toss out your over-priced FastSize for an even more over-priced "revolutionary" model.  

[Tim468]

I cannot find this presentation or an article in the peer reviewed literature by this person. It sounds good, but I don't know that the study was actually even done!

Tim

[Hawk]

Traction or tension, or stretching, (Pick your term), is far from rocket science.  While we can theorize all day long about how the penis tissue reacts or even if it reacts, these are the issues.

Something has to attach to the penis near the head. Next something has to apply tension on that point of attachment. A force has to be established behind the head pushing forward or beyond the penis pulling forward.  The penis will be extended until the shortest fibers become engaged.  At that point traction begins.  

The force can be:

Springs pushing from behind (like 95% of all traction devices)
Weights around the penis behind the head
Weights hanging beyond the penis attached by a strap attached to the head of the penis by some noose, suction, or clinging wrap
A tugging strap (possibly elastic) with one end attached to the leg or body and the other end attached to the penis just like the weight strap in the last example.

While some of these could be attached in a dangerous way the point is that the penis fiber cannot differentiate where the tension comes from.  You could hire an assistant to pull steady on your penis for a few hours a day.  Once you attach a connection point to the penis the traction can come from beyond or behind.  It can be weights, elastic straps, springs, or a small draft animal.

After assuring a safe attachment method the only remaining argument comes down to:

1. long, slow, light steady pull (all day traction)
2. Stronger shorter duration steady pull. (2 - 8 hr traction with breaks every 2 hours)

In any case your pull will likely be much longer than the tension provided by a VED.  (hours Vs minutes)

If you can get artery dilating erections to oxygenate the tissue in between traction sessions (with or without ED drugs or supplements) I see little need for a VED.  If you cannot get erections I think a VED is critical to penile health.

I prefer the longer pull of traction over the VED but everyone must ask, "Do I get healthy erections?"  If the answer is no then you must have a VED.  You can use it with or without traction.

If the answer is yes.  Then getting a moderate erection when you take a traction break is likely important.  If you do that I see no need for a VED.

If you get natural erections and still want a VED because you think the shorter tension periods are just as good and more convenient, then it would be reasonable for you to opt for a VED.

There are however unlikely to be revolutions in traction but rather fine tuning in comfort, concealability, and marketing hype.

All of this boils down to one guy's opinion.