Traction

[tman]

My story sounds real close to yours, I was injured in June and notice a curve in August.  Still haven't been to the uro yet (long wait).  Once I noticed my curve I started researching, I wanted to be pro-active just in case.  I am taking vitamin E and bought the fast size.  3 weeks with the fast size and I have an increase in flaccid length and it SEEMS to have improved my curve.  From all the research I have done, seems traction has the most promise, of course I am a newbie.  My problem is I can't feel any "lumps" of scar tissue, it drives me crazy to see the curve but can't feel the problem.  I can feel a rigid line on the top of the shaft all the way from the base to the glans, but I think that has always been there. Isnt that common?


Quote of an entire previous post removed per forum rules - Hawk

[Liam]

With an injury, time is a crucial variable.  Go to the urologist without delay.  Describe the injury honestly and accurately.  Within 24 hrs is best, but now is better than later.  

Then we'll talk traction (and heat).  

[soxfan]

Hi All,

I am curious about this traction device. Does it seem to help with regaining lost girth or just length and curvature?

Cheers.

[wolfr]

Hi Soxfan--

I have not been able to locate any published full manuscripts on the clinical results with penile traction for Peyronies Disease.  Dr. Levine told me he is in the process of writing the manuscript on his recent pilot study.  However, based on Dr. Levine's summary of the results, the 10 men with Peyronies Disease who used traction daily for 6 months all experiences some degree of improvement in deformity.  He described improvements in curvature, girth, and length.  It is not clear to me that all participants in the clinical trial experienced all of these benefits.  

I'm sure there will be much interest in the manuscript when it is published.

[Liam]

I think, based on personal experience and keeping up with posts here, the verdict will be definitely helps, but is nowhere near a cure.

I am very encouraged, yet I do not see how traction can make the plaque go away.  I am hoping heat changes the plaque enough for the traction to reshape it.  BTW, I neglected to say I leave the device on until normal temperature has been attained.

[Hawk]

IF it normalizes plaque enough to largely get rid of the curve or hour glass defect, restores length, and girth, then call it what you will.

It beats potaba and colchicine.

[soxfan]

They use traction to lengthen limbs. They stretch the scar tissue of burn victims, so why wouldn't traction work for damaged penile tissue?

Cheers.

[Liam]

Please reread what I said.  I think you got the wrong impression.  I did not say it would not reshape plaque.  I only said I did not believe it would make plaque "go away".  

I said:

...definitely helps, but is nowhere near a cure.

"Definitely helps" is very good to me!  


I also said:

I am hoping heat changes the plaque enough for the traction to reshape it.

I should have added "without having to wear the traction unit all day".

Hawk said:

IF it normalizes plaque...

Good point about the "IF".  I don't think normalize is what it does unless you consider possible reshaping as more normal.  I am not 100% sure if reshaping of plaque is what is really happening either.  

Hawk also said:

It beats potaba and colchicine.

AMEN, Brother!!!  

Based on my own case, I have, as I've said, seen objective improvement.  I have, also, had some soreness in the area of the plaque where the lateral bend occurs.  Plaque, itself cannot hurt, of course.  I have ideas, but I'm not sure exactly what this means.  

Also, I will add some more anecdotal evidence.  I have a large amount of plaque and there is a "rigidness" to the length of my penis even in the flaccid state.  Even when flaccid, a lateral curve is obvious.  I notice this the most during trips to the urinal (I have to aim).    In the last couple of days I have noticed my lateral curve is almost gone.  The only thing I've been doing differently is the heat/traction regimen twice a week.  I am not on any supplements (other meds are taking priority right now   ).  I still use my VED on days I'm not doing traction.

BTW, the pain and the change in the curve coincide exactly.

[bodoo2u]

Guys,

If I skip the heat before I apply my traction device would I harm myself, or is the heat an added benefit? I also need to know if I can benefit from the use of heat without applying traction at the time I apply the heat?

[Liam]

Bodoo,

The heat is only something I came up with.  It is not part of the regular traction treatment.  

To the second question, I doubt it.

[Tim468]

My VED routine is to soak in a fairly shallow hot water bath and to relax, and to then apply the VED tube with the use of soap for lubrication (the "shallow" part helps here in letting the base be out of the water and therefore with a soapy residue that allows for a good seal). I find that - FOR ME - this allows me to stretch out to my final stretched length faster and with less discomfort than when I use lubricant without heat.

In stretching with this method, I have found that the hot water seems to make things feel more stretchy. There is some basis for this being "true" - if you take a hair from your head (assuming a person has long enough hair for this to happen...), and hold it over steam from a pot of boiling water, you will see it become easily stretched out to almost twice as long. This happens because of the breaking of heat sensitive chemical bonds that keep collagen i a partially coiled configuration.

I don't know if this happens in a much more complex anatomy of collagen laden fibrotic tissue, but I figure that it can't hurt. I do know that if I stretch this way it feels better during the first half of the 20 or so minutes I spend doing this; when I do it "cold", the initial time spent stretching is sort of painful - kind of like when I stretch my muscles. Then, it gradually loosens up.

Does it help? I don't know. There are data (not great data as usual) that suggest directly applied heat (provided in a way that we cannot easily do at home) may "break up" plaque. FWIW, I have also tried laying under a heat lamp, with my penis pulled through a gap in two hot pads I laid on my groin region (to protect the rest of me), prior to applying the VED. It didn't work the same, and the annoying amount of stuff I had to do was too time consuming to feel worth it. Taking a bath at least lets me "multi-task" when I am stretching.

Tim

[ocelot556]

Liam,

Are you still using IR light bulbs? If so, how is that going for you - I know you've posted on it before, but an update would be nice (even if you've stopped doing it!). I want to try some IR treatment but am worried about the potential longterm effects, and wondering how to go about doing it in the first place - though your initial posts on the subject give me at least some insight into it.

How do you localize the plaque against the regular tissue? Do you throw some kind of cloth over your wanger with holes cut in it for the plaques? :>

[bodoo2u]

I read the PDF on hyperthermia. The method they use is complicated and there is no way we can duplicate that type of treatment at home.  

[Liam]

 Oct. 16th I said:

I have a large amount of plaque and there is a "rigidness" to the length of my penis even in the flaccid state.  Even when flaccid, a lateral curve is obvious.  I notice this the most during trips to the urinal (I have to aim).    In the last couple of days I have noticed my lateral curve is almost gone.  The only thing I've been doing differently is the heat/traction regimen twice a week.  I am not on any supplements (other meds are taking priority right now   ).  I still use my VED on days I'm not doing traction.

I have seen increases in flaccid and erect length.

This describes the regimen:

Two times a week for 20 - 30 min wearing traction device using (very) hot (not scalding) water is all I've done.  I use a steady pulse of water from a shower massage centered on the base of the penis for about 10 min.  I then shower as usual.  I take off the traction right before getting dressed.  I stretch to the length of an erection.  No more.

[Liam]

Bodoo, You are correct about not duplicating the method.  However, I believe the results can be.  The goal is to raise the temp to 105 degrees and hold it there while stretching the penis.  Hot water has been safely used in PT treatments for years.  I see the difference like cooking with electricity or with gas.

[ocelot556]

Ah, okay. For some reason I seem to remember you making a post about IR light bulbs, and you're the loudest proponent of hyperthermia (a treatment I'm obviously interested in).

How can you be sure that you get the water to that temperature? Can it get that hot from a spicket/shower head? You know, until this day I never bothered to wonder just how hot the water in your shower gets...

[bodoo2u]

Can anyone tell me how soon is too soon to use traction after sex or ejaculation? I was thinking a couple of hours later, but I'm not sure if that's enough time to avoid damage, if that is a consideration  at all.

[Liam]

How can you be sure that you get the water to that temperature? Can it get that hot from a spicket/shower head?

Hot water heaters can get up to 140^oF.  Use a meat thermometer if you are unsure.  I am not that picky.  I like showers really really hot anyway.  I figure, if it is below scalding and above 105^oF, it will work.  If you think about normal body temp at 98.6^oF, 105^oF is not that much of an increase.

Bodoo,

Of what kind of damage are you afraid.  I can't imagine anything dangerous.

[Hawk]

I THINK common sense saves the day but unfortunately I have learned that common sense really does not seem to be all that common.  

Heat, far short of scalding the skin, can cause necrosis (or dying tissue).  The risk increases with temperature and with duration.  Some specific warnings were posted about a year back under "Hyperthermia" under the "Alternative Treatments" topic.  I think they were from a clinical study or other scholarly source, but I have not had time to search them out.

[bodoo2u]

Fellas,

Whatever you do while you're trying to get in your required hours of traction, don't drift off and think about the fun you had when you were straighter. Even a semi-erection will make the ring at the base of your penis so tight it will drive you to tears. And unlike the VED there is no quick-release valve to save you.

You might have to think of something unpleasant to make yourself soft while you scramble to get it off.  

[tunica]

I am six months into the active phase.  I'm having a lot of shrinkage.  If I wear the traction device durring the active phase will it exaserbate and give me more shrinkage?

-Thanks

[Liam]

There is no objective evidence in either direction.  My gut tells me keeping it stretched is good.  Maybe use a VED.  Traction for a shorter duration could also be tried  (you know my method).

BTW,  I have not used heat/traction for two weeks now (reasons unrelated to Peyronies Disease...mostly time constraints) and the changes I noted previously seem to be permanent.

[Old Man]

tunica:

Sorry to hear that you have lost so much size so quickly. In regards to traction and or VED usage during the active stage of Peyronies Disease: The best advice that I can give you based on my many years of having this mess called Peyronies Disease is to go slow and easy with any traction or therapy with the VED.

While using the VED, use only a mild amounts of vacuum pressure during the early stages of using the VED. Then as your penis "gets used" to more pressure add a little each session. However, if you feel any discomfort or pain while using the VED, release the pressure and resume pumping with a lessor amount that is comfortable. Dail use of the VED work best.

Remember, it takes time for the VED therapy to show any results. You do, however, want to keep strething your tunica/penis so that further shrinkage might not occur. Each case of Peyronies Disease if different, so you must approach any treatment/regimen of therapy according to your own symptoms.

There is a lot of experience with Peyronies Disease on this forum, so research it and take note of anything that might help your case. I suggest, though, that you only try one "mechanical" routine at a time. You can add any oral treatment so that you can benefit from that side of the coin.

Regards, Old Man

[DCH]

Hello,

OK I am willing to try one of these.  What is the best way to get one at the best price.  The prices on the website for Fastsize are relatively expensive.


Suggestions :-)


DCH

[jjmnpi]

My first post. Been following the forum for a long time. I've just completed one week with the Fastsize. I think they have something here. No problem wearing it under clothes. Only problems are peeing, you have to take it off or it stings because it is squeezing the head, and pinching if it isn't put on right. I'm an expert at it now. It's easy. I wear it to work. No one noticed any unusual bulge. I was self conscious at first. Not anymore. I'll keep you posted.

J

[Tim468]

Thanks for the update on the Fastsize. I have been thinking about getting it but was afraid it would be way too obvious.

Tim

ps still not sure if I could ever get up the nerve to wear it to work.

[dahc]

I've been wearing my Fastsize over 6 months now. Pleated loose fitting pants have been a godsend. Now flat front pants seem to be the fashion, guess I'll buck the trend.

D

[jjmnpi]

Yes, flat front pants are in. I had someone tell me that a year ago. Pleats are out. I bought all flat front pants and was afraid it would show. Not at all. I had it on most of the day yesterday with no problems. I have had it on for 3 hours so far today with a pair of semi tight sweat pants and I forgot I even had the thing on. I went to take a leak and it was still there stretching away. No pain & Un-noticable. A total surprise to me. You can wear the Fastsize in the up or down position. I feel more comfortable with it in the down position. I even wear boxer briefswhich keeps it in the down position. I have had no problems at all getting used to it. Like I said before, I take it off to pee because it is painful to leave it on and pee and i had some pinching problems, but now it's fine. I'm done with pills and creams and heat and all that stuff. I'm going to stretch this thing back into place!

I'll keep you posted.

J  

[dahc]

jjmnpi

It is very easy to wear and comfortable at the original setting. If you keep adding segments weekly to increase the stretch as I have, you'll find it gets a little less easy to wear around 6 weeks. Keep using it though, I had 3 month visit with my Uro today and my curve has reduced to around 20%. That's down from 29% bend 3 months ago and 45% in May 07. I'm sure traction is a significant part of my curve reduction.

For me the changes happened very slowly. I'm really happy that my doctor is measuring my curve periodically.

D

[Tim468]

Great news Dahc!

Tim

[jjmnpi]

D,
Have you gotten any length back and have you been supplementing with any pills or creams? The Fastsize seems to be the only thing that makes sense to me. Stretching the scar tissue. I've been popping pills for too long with no success. I'll stretch it until Xiaflex is approved for Peyronies Disease.

J

[bodoo2u]

DAHC, what are you using in addition to the Fastsize. I have had Peyronies Disease for more than two years now, and I began using a traction device about three months ago. I think I see some improvement in the curve, and I have regained a little girth. So I know that traction helps. I need to know what else helps. So far, I have been blessed to not have experienced pain, or any deformity outside of the curve.

[dahc]

Bodoo2u & jjmnpi,

I've been taking L-arginine twice a day and half of a Cialis every 3 days. The other thing I did that is highly controversial on this site is have a series of Verapamil shots where the doctor made multiple passes through the plaque with the needle.

Bodoo it's interesting that you mention an increase in girth, that's what I noticed first when using the Fastsize. Length hasn't been as obvious. I've gained about 1/2 inch or more of erect length. Length has been a difficult one for me to determine having some ED problems as well. The more aroused the stronger the erection and larger the size(at least for me). Gaining another 1/4 to 1/2 inch is my goal.

D

[Hawk]

The most consistent, means of accurately determining penis length is by measuring the stretched flaccid penis.  It does not depend on degree of erection and therefore does not vary.  It also does not cause confusion on whether to measure on the contour of a curve or whether to measure the inside or outside of a curve.  The length of a stretched flaccid penis is also VERY close to the length of a firmly erect penis.  This method is the most accurate method and is the method used by most research studies.

[antony]

Hawk,

as for me i know that now at flaccid, when i stretch on penis, it has no more elasticity, or very few. But before that problem, because all was good , i had never stretched on my penis to have a look, so i dont know how important is the change. But i'm sure now it's hard to stretch and has no elasticity (and the doc says 'normal' ...)
But when you say the stretched flaccid penis is very close from the lenght in erection , so imagine that a boy has a 23 centimeters penis in erection, does it mean that when you stretch it at flaccid, you can stretch on about 20centimeters? (!!)

[Hawk]

Antony,

But when you say the stretched flaccid penis is very close from the lenght in erection , so imagine that a boy has a 23 centimeters penis in erection, does it mean that when you stretch it at flaccid, you can stretch on about 20centimeters? (!!)

It means that if the penis is 23 CM with a good firm erection that it will be 23 CM when it is stretched while flaccid.  That is how far it will stretch no matter how flaccid it is.

If it is not very elastic and does not stretch very far when flaccid, it will as not get bigger when erect so the stretched flaccid length is still accurate.  In other words, the length your penis will stretch with blood doing the stretching from inside, and the length you can stretch it with your hand by gently but firmly tugging on the tip, is the same length.

[Hawk]

I have had a single cylinder VED (Vacurect) for a couple years.

I am now strongly considering a traction device.  This is a personal choice, but for me, the theory behind a traction device just makes traction appear to be the better approach.  If I proceed, I will update the members on what I decide and share my detailed progress notes.

[antony]

Hawk,

so i had a good size before that problem so i could have stretched it on about 20cm (i did not know that), and now that i have the problem i can't stretch it more at all apparantly.
Does it mean (i ask if you know, i try -like others- to understand what happened coz doctors don't help) that the whole tunica could be fibrosed? I guess a plaque could reduce a little the stretching lenght at the area of the plaque, but not totally. So is that like a calcification in my case do you think? And if it's so 'strong' (a calcification is not a small fibrosis, its a very bad one) do you have any clue why an exam like MRI does not make it appear?
If you have any idea of course.

[Tim468]

Antony,

None of us can diagnose you over the internet. I know that i have lost length and girth slowly over the years and that the VED stopped that and allowed me to get some of it back and to prevent more.

Antony, given the degree of pathology that you report, who cares what a doctor says? Get a VED and start stretching!

Hawk,

The stretched length is usually close to the erect length, being usually 0.5 to 1.0 cm shorter than a full erection. I have noted that my fully stretched-out length and erect length are very similar (ie, the difference is about 1.0 cm shorter sytretching than natural hard erection). However, following a 20 minute VED session, I find that both are about 1.5 to 2.0 cm longer. I have a measuring gauge on my VED cylinder that allows me to document what happens and I note that I grow slowly as I really fill up and stretch out (and my penis seems to "relax" to allow fuller stretching out) to that precise degree.

Also I note that if I am lucky enough to have sex right after such a session, my natual erection (ie, I am not using a constriction band) will be longer than a natural erection obtained without using the VED. The longer lenght seems to last up to about 45 minutes, gradually going back to normal.

For these reasons, and the testimonials of others, I think I am going to try the Fastsize (in our cases, probably the "Slowsize") device next.

Tim

[antony]

Tim,

Yes , i know nobody can diagnose (anyaway i'm sure its fibrosis) and for sure i dont care now of doctors, they say oposite and non-sense things. The fact is i stay really blocked by the fact that a fibrosis that changes the whole structure of tunica is not shown on the 'most precise' exams.

But i'm planning to order the VED before next week. By the way, i had already bought one some times ago, one adviced by the doc, but it was a cheap one and totally crap it was not working.

In your case you have lost lenght over the years coz if you had ED and Peyronies Disease then the penis was slowly 'fibrosing' , but i have no explanation how me it happened from total normal to total bad in so few time, exept the calcification , but i liked to see it on exam (it changes nothing to the problem, but for my mind i want to see what creates me this thing)

But i start VED soon for sure.

[j]

I agree completely with tim468.  

I also have Dupuytren's contracture(s) on both hands.  I've had 2 surgeries (they're rough).  The conventional wisdom, which my surgeon laid on me right away - is to forget stretching, it's been tried, you can't win, it will only make things worse.   Like I said, the surgeries are rough and they take a toll.  A couple of years ago the disease started to progress in a couple of new locations and I felt I had nothing to lose by stretching.  I feel I've held it at bay for 2 years now and forestalled mor surgery - by stretching hard and long, every day.  

[Tim468]

J

I have had very mild Dupuytrens for over ten years. I constantly stretch - so much it is unconscious when I do it. I apply the stretch often. Unfortunately, applying a longitudinal stretch to my penis is not as socially acceptable in public. Even there, I push the boundaries a bit, doing slight "adjustments" that get a look from my girlfriend (who knows what I am doing). I try to make it look like I am simply tucking in my shirt and having some trouble....  

Tim

I wonder if a FastSize would fit in a Christmas stocking...

[j]

tim468,  you might get your wish  You'll know on Christmas morning, if the stocking is a little longer and straighter.  

[Liam]

I have not been doing the heat/traction thing for a couple of months.  I have not been doing the VED during this time period.  The improvement I experienced from the heat/traction has remained, though.  I may start up again to see if more improvement can be obtained.

I am not claiming anyone will have the same results.  My case is unique in that I'm 2 1/4 years post prostate surgery and I'm supposed to have improvement in erections.  I also have a large amount of plaque.  To the point, I measured my two marks on the VED.  I have recorded almost 1/2 inch in regained erection length.   I do not notice any change in girth, but I don't measure.  I also don't have any measure of erection without the VED.  It appears to have improved, but no objective measure.

Again, even though the measure is accurate, the results may be confounded by other variables.  I am, of course, encouraged by the results and will continue.  I guess I'm typical in that after measuring I thought of increasing to three times a week with the regimen.  But, I decided not to change something that seems to be helping.  Extra time may start to damage tissue.  Right now, no problems.    

BTW, I never had a problem with sensitivity.  I can't comment on that other than to say no change.

[jjmnpi]

I have had Peyronies Disease for over 10 years. I have researched everything. I have popped every pill. I have been poked with needles. I bought videos on stretching the penis in all different directions with my hands. I paid for Topical Verapimil. I've been following his forum for a couple years. If someone had mino success with a funky pill or cream, I went out and bought it. Nothing worked, although I'm not a patient person and gave up easily.  I definitely lost length & girth and I curve to the left. I still get good enough erections to have sex. It pops out once in a while, but it works fine for both me and my wife. After about ten days on the Fastsize, and this is not a promotional ad, I have noticed my penis is spongier and it is definitely pinker. I feel like it is doing something. I am wearing it now, Christmas morning, and I can't even feel it. If I look at it in the mirror, it looks like I'm stretching it an extra 2 inches. I point it in the down position and no one notices. Over the past month, when my penis was flaccid, it just felt dead. Like a lifeless body. No flexability at all. I could not stretch it at all. Now it has some felxibility. I am planning on adding some length onto the device this week. I may go back to L-Arginine twice a day to supplement the stretch and maybe Viagra to see what happens with this combination. Once again, I'll keep you posted.

Merry Christmas or should I say Happy Holidays to all!

JJMNPI

[jjmnpi]

Two weeks into the traction device and I'm happy with the purchase. I added a little length onto the device, about a 1/4 inch, on the 26th. At first there was a little pain with the added stretch and it popped out once in awhile, but now it's very comfortable. The elasticity has definitely improved. Flaccid length definitely looks improved. Definitely spongier. I'm not sure of any improvement in my curvature. I'm not expecting much after only two weeks. I'm relying more on sight rather than measurements. I have been supplementing with L-Arginine 500 mg twice a day. I'm going with this length of stretch for another week and I'll try to add another 1/4 inch to it next week. Still no problem wearing it to work except the urinating part. I have to take it off each time. I like to drink alot of water during the day so I have to urinate frequently. It gets to be a pain, but I deal with it. I truly believe this is working and will work. I just have to be patient and consistent.

I'll continue to keep you posted.
Happy New Year!
jjm

[shrout]

With the kind help of one poster here I've been searching on eBay for affordable traction devices. The model I was advised to search for, the Maxpullr, seems to be no longer available, and the guy who was selling it is no longer a registered eBay seller.
However, on my travels I did discover a site which is selling traction devices at far more affordable prices than FastSize, here...

http://www.megasizer.com/megasizer.html.

I don't think this site has been mentioned before on the traction thread, although I could be wrong. Maybe it's worth looking into. From the images shown the devices look to be decent quality.
 

[Tim468]

At 75$ it is cheaper. I would like to know what those who use these devices have to say about them. Are there any "good" penis stretching device sites like ours where one could go to read opinions?

Tim

[jjmnpi]

Fastsize has a forum on their website. Also, I chose Fastsize because of Dr. Levine who is a well respected Urologist. When I first read about the Fastsize device, I researched Dr. Levine to see if he was legit or was he just pedalling a product for profit. I believe that he believes in this product or he would not back it. It is expensive. I paid $329. I emailed the company and asked for a discount coupon off the $349 price and they sent me a coupon code. You get what you pay for. This is a quality device. It's simple to use. The give you extra parts. They have 24 hour assistance help line and I get follow up emails every couple weeks. The only other product I know of is Jes Extender but I don't think it is any cheaper.

jjm

[pal-31]

Jjmnpi,

Thanks for sharing.

Hope you dont mind me asking if you have noticed better erection quality ?

Thanks,
Pal