GENERAL COMMENTS & Questions - that won't fit under any of our other topics

[Liam]

If I understand correctly, PDE 5 inhibitors "relax" smooth muscle, selectively, in the penis and lungs.  This is the opposite of what you want to happen for increasing BP.  Did you mention the supplements you're taking to your doc?  If not, maybe you should.

Liam

[Hawk]

MMM,

Clearly, if you thought to ask us about the effects of combining anything with your new meds on the very day of your doctor's appointment, then you should have covered that with your doctor.  Well thought out preparation for your appointment will ensure these things are discussed in your visits and not end up as an after-thought presented to a forum.

As a second choice, you could discuss this with your pharmacist reminding him that L-Arginine is a nitric oxide (N.O.) precursor or N. O. donor and that it is promoted as a vasodialator.  PDE5 inhibitors warn against use with a N.O. donor or use by someone with low blood pressure.  One of the specific warned dangers from PDE5 inhibitors is a sudden drop in blood pressure.  This is especially true in those with low blood pressure or with those taking an N.O. donor.

Liam indicated that PDE5 inhibitors are selective vasodialators.  I do not think they are that selective.  That is why they cause a stuffy nose, and can cause hemorrhages in the eyes, and cause BP to drop.

[Liam]

Liam indicated that PDE5 inhibitors are selective vasodialators.  I do not think they are that selective.  That is why they cause a stuffy nose, and can cause hemorrhages in the eyes, and cause BP to drop.

I agree with Hawk

[George999]

Hypotension is certainly something that throws a huge wrench into much of what is used to try to treat Peyronies for sure.  But, fortunately, it shouldn't preclude the use of either Pentox or full spectrum E or a combination of the two.  And the fact that one has hypotension would tend to indicate that one already has a lot of NO activity going on.  As for the combination of Arginine and Grapefruit Seed Oil, what is likely happening here is that the Grapefruit Seed Oil is allowing you to better assimilate the Arginine.  That is why they warn people NOT to use Grapefruit products in combination with prescription meds.  But as Hawk mentions, I would be VERY careful with the Arginine if I had a hypotension issue.  - George

[George999]

Over the last few weeks, I have experienced a rare (for me) mild resurgence in my Peyronies.  This occurs at a point where 1) I have been cutting back on Aloe Vera which has the effect of lowering blood sugar levels, 2) I have pretty much achieved my target weight and have begun to consume more sugar laced food than I have for years, and 3) I just had some blood work done and my doctor commented that my blood sugar levels were significantly higher than they have been in the past (nowhere near diabetic, but just higher than in the past).  This makes me really curious about the possible role of blood sugar levels in relation to Peyronies.  At this point, I am going to, once again, begin to seriously restrict my sugar intake and bump up my Aloe Vera intake and see what effect that has.  It is sort of a known thing that Diabetes disrupts the healing process, but I really wonder if even minor changes in blood sugar levels can tip the balance when it comes to Peyronies?  - George

[Hawk]

Your comments bring me back to this topic:

Research has also shown that insulin plays an important role in controlling the proliferation of myofibroblasts during the healing stage of damaged tissue, and is responsible for mediating the formation of scar tissue.  Without insulin, myofibroblasts can proliferate to form an abundance of scar tissue.  Perhaps insulin is the "smoking gun"?

George, I wonder if you have ever really checked this site out.  it is interesting and deserves a good read.  http://www.dupuytrens-a-new-theory.com/

If you have comments, post them under https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,65.0.html

[meanmrmustard]

thanks george and hawk. will try going back to pentox and stop the l-arginine for some time. also I'm trying natural ways like herbs that raise blood pressure, ginger and so on, maybe even aspirin, I really don't want to take this prescribed medicine for a long time

[Steve]

OK Hawk,

I'm type II insulin dependent, like hot spicy foods, have Viking (Scandanavian) blood in me (about 1/2), am a man, drink coffee, am often sleep-deprived, take beta blockers, am somewhat sedentary... luckily for me, I'm not an alcholic and don't smoke !  According to that article you referenced, I'm a prime candidate for DC (which I don't have) and Peyronies Disease (which I do)!

Seriously though...This is definately something worth keeping an eye on.  I'm curious where this DC site came from? (I just checked...it's from "Kevin" in Kansas City, and is "his" theory on DC).  Some parts of it seem somewhat sensational (like the 'possible' links to cancer and Alzheimer's).  Still, there are some interesting ideas presented here, and I'm going to try and follow up on some of these.

Steve

[prouddaddy]

I am new to this forum, finding out that I have Peyronies Disease only yesterday. I am asking for no silver bullet just help. What seems to be best treatment for someone without a good insurance policy.( I have a HSA with a big deductable) I have high blood pressure and also have fibromyalgia. I have really suffered mentally to have all this put on me in a really short time. I really think that there may be some correlation between the Peyronies Disease and the Fibro. Anyway, I have always tried to be active in dealing with any problems that I have faced. I want to do the same with this. I have seen so many things here that I really am kinda lost. I have a good family DR. but live in an area that really is lacking in any specialist. I know my family doctor will be open to anything that I can suggest. He has not given me any treatment plan yet as we decided to both do research to find a treatment plan. I being new just hope I have put this request somewhere near the right place. I thank all , Proudaddy. PS. is there a place on here for introductions?

[myrddin]

Interesting theories.  I can trace back my first Peyronie's symptoms (pain/dent) to the week or so after Easter.  I always shop the post-Easter candy closeouts, so I KNOW my sugar intake was spiking at that time.

Coincidence?

[George999]

Hawk, I read the article you linked and read it with passion from one end to the other.  My observation is that the author is really on to something.  He may be in left field in terms of some of the loose ends, but as to the core of his conjecture, I think he is right on the money.  I, myself, have always suspected that Peyronies (and a lot of other things, like metabolic syndrome) are really just the tip of the iceburg and really just part of a much bigger picture, which is why I have been putting more and more effort into the healthy lifestyle aspect of dealing with this disease.  At this point, I am really starting to focus more on blood sugar and insulin metabolism.  I have dabbled in this area in the past, but it is going to rise in priority significantly at this point.  Insulin resistance is very much a silent disease that typically does not get treated until the insulin can no longer keep up with the blood sugar levels.  During this period, serum insulin levels skyrocket which is VERY inflammatory, and tissue insulin levels plunge which is also VERY inflammatory.  But as long as blood sugar itself stays in the band, no one pays any attention.  Who knows what problems might result from this "pre-diabetic" state?  Thanks so much for the link.  It contains much tantalizing information.

As for Vitamin D, I have been weighing that issue for some time.  What really got me to taking Vitamin D was the fact that I began suffering from Oral Thrush a few months back.  I discussed this with a PA and together we linked it with diet and, of course, immune issues.  Out of that discussion, I decided that since Vitamin D is a key immune component, I would immediately begin taking 1000IU D3 per day and see what happened.  The Oral Thrush cleared immediately and I have continued taking the D3 ever since.

As for the sugar issue, I had been restricting my sugar intake to fruit only before beginning to indulge in the Ice Cream and other Goodies.  With the fruit I ALWAYS make sure to take Grapefriut (be careful with Grapefruit if you are on any prescription meds!) and Cinnamon.  During this time my Peyronies seemed very much under control and even to be getting 'better'.  I have also been taking Chromium, but now will be looking into other products that might address Insulin Resistance.  - George

Interesting link?  http://www.healthday.com/Article.asp?AID=606585

[Tim468]

Dear Proud Daddy (like the name),

Just a quick note before I head home from work. More detail later. You are right to get going right away nod to not wait for months to "see what happens". However, you do not have to act within the next five minutes.

Take some time to read here and to get the lay of the land. There are many ways to learn but the best start is to go to the "Newly Diagnosed Highlight" area to learn more. If you go to the "Home" button that link with have that category right at the top.

Most of us focus on doing what we can do, and gettin ghlpe to see what more others can do for us (ie doctors). For many of us, our focus is on anti-inflammatory medication and supplements.

NSAIDS for pain and inflammation during the acute phase - many of use use advil for that (it may help your fibromyalgia).
Phosphodiesterase inhibitors like viagra can increase erectile quality (often a problem) and will reduce the inflammation in the tunica where the lesion is.
Vitamin E, using a broad spectrum formulation with tocopherols and tocotrienols both (all are important).

And a ton of other things. Many of us use arginine (I do) and other pro-nitric oxide supplements.

Read here a while, take notes, ask for advice, and hopefully we can get yo going. Many of us also use the vacuum erection device  (VED) to force a harder and straighter erection, and for many of us, we have seen improvement (I have).

Tim

[meanmrmustard]

since my ED problems came on, my testicles never really got hard, they alway stayed sloppy soft/floppy even when my penis was erect. now I've switched from boxershorts to boxerbriefs, a change that SEEMS to have helped that problem, there seems to be more blood in my testicles in general and when my penis is erected, they get hard like they used to in the old days.

After all there are certain testicle-issues where wearing a suspensorium is recommended - briefs do sth similar, fixing the testicles in a position whereas boxers allow them to ...uh - bounce.

does that make sense?

[Liam]

In a word, No.  

Damn sloppy testicles.  I hate it when that happens.  

[Hawk]

since my ED problems came on, my testicles never really got hard, they alway stayed sloppy soft/floppy even when my penis was erect. now I've switched from boxershorts to boxerbriefs, a change that SEEMS to have helped that problem, there seems to be more blood in my testicles in general and when my penis is erected, they get hard like they used to in the old days.

After all there are certain testicle-issues where wearing a suspensorium is recommended - briefs do sth similar, fixing the testicles in a position whereas boxers allow them to ...uh - bounce.

does that make sense?

NO, This post makes ABSOLUTELY NO sense!  In fact it is very difficult to believe it is not a put-on!  I am not trying to be cruel but I am simply taking a stand against non-sense on a forum that serves thousands of serious people.

Either:

you are pulling our chain as a sick joke
You have NO understanding of male genitals
You have an emotional/psychologica/mental disorder that needs treatment.
Your genitals are so unique that you should consider donating them to a museum of medical science.

[Kimo]

Hawk and Liam,,,,,you are so right,this makes absolutely no sence at all..make ya wanna say WHAT ??

[Tim468]

I feel a bit like that old Saturday Night Live routine where Garrett Morris would serve as  the "interpreter for the deaf", and would simply shout the headlines after Chevy Chase read them.

I think that MMM is trying to speak to the phenomenon of his testicles pulling up tight with arousal. The testes do not "fill with blood" or "get hard", as anyone with any understanding of basic physiology knows. But many here do not have a clue about physiology (I think MM is one of those folks) and may interpret the scrotum pulling up tight (which does indeed prevent "bouncing"), with the testes getting "hard".

There you go - that is my interpretation of the post. It, like many previous posts, suggests poor erectile quality, and an even poorer understanding of the reasons why that may happen. Most us us have concluded that MMM has a tenuous grasp on the details of how it works. This makes his statements difficult for me to read. But if we can find a way to help him get it, and say what he means maybe we will get somewhere. I wish I could tell if this is a spoof - but it seems more like a real (and confused) post.

Tim

[Ralf3]

Hello everybody!  

I am sorry for my english at the first place. I am not a native english speaker

I am from Slovakia, capital Bratislava and I am 21 years old.

My problems with penis started when I was 10. I had phimosis since i was 10..I was too young to understand that it might interfere any sexual event.  And I was also too shy to say I have some problem with penis...so I lived with it 7 years and when I was 17, I decided to solve this problem out. So in 2003 I underwent circumcision...there were no problems with it. And there were 4 years withou any problem waiting for me.

Till now. Early in May this year I was diagnosed with infectious mononucleosis...I had very bad liver tests and was also in hospital for one week...during that week my liver got relaxed and went to normal...but still have active antibody against Epstein-Barr virus (that causing mono) in my blood..probably its going to be there for a few months. I have been taking a few medicaments...some antibiotics, drugs for liver and some supplement drugs for imunne system (zinc, selen, vit C, A, E).

So. At the end of May, I started to feel, that the whole body of my penis was more hard than usual swollen or something), while flabby (and there was no accident). There was no bend, no erection problem, no pain. I though it will go away after few days. But it had been still there. I was very afraid, I saw something on the Internet about Peyronies disease, but I didnt do some deep study, only read that there is no cure for it . I was shocked and deadly afraid, but found a great support in my parents and girlfriend

I decided to visit a urologist...he didnt know what it was and gave me drug against swelling....but it had no positive action and went worse. The swelling became more visible and it was on the upper side of the body of penis. Now I can see some notches along the body and the swelling reminds me walnut or something and it is hard, only while flabby.

Now I have also problems with erection, it is not so hard as it was before and two days ago I started to feel random, thorny pain, but not strong and sometimes unnoticed and only while flabby. There is also something hard and visible under the penis skin. I had to visit another uro, private one, because I was very
worried and wanted to solve it immediately Today I underwent Doppler Ultrasonograph to controll veins and vessels and everything was ok. But he suggested me to another specialistic urological survey to one hospital, but they have a vacation, so I have to wait circa two weeks.

I was asking the doctor whether its Peyronies but he told me its not. But thats only his opinion. I still have doubts and I think it is Peyronies Disease. Even if there is no visible bend. Maybe very slightly bend downwards but only when the erection is becoming.

Yesterday I read all this website out, got know all useful informations.  I am more calm now, but still afraid whats next, you know.  Yesterday I started to take Vitamin E 400mg, I am considering the heat therapy to the future..I also stopped taking Vit C drugs because of inflammatory actions you know..I am not sure if there are some specialists for Peyronies here in Slovakia...and travelling and paying doctors in abroad would be deadly expensive for me.

The worst thing is waiting for another surveys..meantime it could worsen.  I hope not

I am also thinking what should start this swelling if there was no accident..whether it is related to the mononucleosis or to some drugs I took...dont know. It appeared and progressed very quickly.

Well, you can write what do you think about it and I hope if I want to know some details about some possible therapy, you will help me.  Maybe you will say I am crazy, because no one has confirmed it really
is Peyronies Disease, but it might be better to start some treatment in the accute phase, when its not too late.

Generally I have to say, this site helps me so much to see options for treatment...will wait and will keep you informed.

THANK YOU!

Ralf3

[Hawk]

Ralf,

This forum is now yours as much as it is ours, and we welcome you to the forum.

You provided very good background information and your English is fine.  I had no trouble understanding what you were saying.  I will try to use straight English and not use expressions that are used in our everyday speech.

Based on the picture I get in my mind about what you said, this does not sound like Peyronies Disease but you are correct in doing everything you can to find out what it is.  You said it reminds you of a walnut.  I have never known Peyronies Disease to result in NOTICEABLE swelling.  There is swelling or inflammation with Peyronies Disease but is usually felt in the form of pain.  After the inflammation starts there may be scar tissue that can be felt like a hard round pea or a long cord (string) but nothing near the size of a walnut.

In general, I think you should take an anti-inflammatory drug for swelling.  My personal opinion is that I would be careful using heat on tissue that is inflamed so much it is swollen.  I would also try to eat an anti-inflammatory diet and take good general care of my body (lots of rest, light exercise, relax with no stress).  This will help your body try to correct what is wrong.  Most of all I would keep going back to doctors to try to get accurate answers.

It could be very possible that you poor erections are caused by worry and concern but it is difficult to know that.

Good luck to you, and keep us informed.

[Tim468]

Ralf,

I try to think in simple terms. If one were to take a long needle and to stick it through the penis all the way through, it goes through different kinds of tissue (I am not suggesting you do that!). Then, when we name the tissues it goes through, we can imagine what might happen to that tissue if it were to be inflamed.

The more that one knows about anatomy, the more detailed the list can get as to what is there to become abnormal.

In Peyronie's Disease, the tunica albuginea is the portion that can become inflamed and lead to scar and deviation of the penis. But there is tissue superficial to the tunica, and deep to it, that could also be abnormal in your case. For instance, the skin can become indurated (swollen and hard), much like if you got a bee sting, and you had a localized swelling of the skin. A vein could become thrombosed (clot forms inside it) and swell and become rubbery and enlarged - but that would still not be a problem with the tunica.

So, just superficial to the tunica are at least two different areas that could become abnormal and lead to your problem - the skin and superficial veins. Additionally, there are fat cells that can become necrosed and inflamed in the subcutaneous tissue (though very few are located there, I believe). So, I think the very first thing to decide for you and your doctors is WHERE is the problem located anatomically.

Then you can start to decide WHAT the problem is, and hopefully finally WHY the problem exists. You are doing a very smart thing - you are taking care of yourself by seeking help. Bravo to you for not hiding at home and worrying and coming up with excuses to not seek help. Asking the urologists to help you figure out what is going on is great - and challenge them. Ask that they make it understandable to you. I believe that if a doctor cannot explain what he thinks, his thinking may be too muddled anyway.

Hang in there and welcome to the forum.

Tim

[Liam]

Ralf,

It does not sound like Peyronies Disease to me.  Did your doctor guess what was wrong (name of disease or condition)?

Good Luck,

Liam  

[Ralf3]

Boys!

Thank you very very much, I appreciate your answers and I am very happy
that you think its not Peyronies Disease. Anyway, I will keep watching it and will inform you for sure.
As I said, the result of Doppler USG of veins showed no damage or other bad behaviour,
so veins should be okay. I will see. The doctor didnt know what it is, he said it might be
something related to corpus cavernosa. I am also doubting that its classic swelling because
my skin is normal.
Yeah, erection is very closely related to psychic status.. and I have to say,
that since I got to know the curving thing about Peyronies Disease, I have only been waiting for any sign of bending during an erection

Thanks again, you all are very kind people.
I bet, once we will beat all this uro problems up!  

Ralf3

P.S.: Liam, thanks for the "Vitaj" :-D how do you know? online dictionary? :-D

[George999]

Welcome Ralf!

I agree with all of the previous posters.  This really does not sound like Peyronies to me at all.  I does sound like some sort of inflammation as Dr. Tim and others have suggested.

Therefore, the best thing is to 1) Have patience with your doctors as they do their best to try to figure out what is happening.  The fact that you spent years with phimosis before your circumcision might possibly have resulted in this happening later, or it might be something related to the circumcision itself.  Who knows?  In any case, anywhere in the world, it takes time for doctors to sort through all of it.  Your local doctors might not have the best equipment in the world, but for sure many of them are very competent and capable.  In the US, while technology is very advanced, medical costs are so high that even a significant number of people here find it difficult to obtain good medical care.  So the best medical care for you in this situation is likely to be found in your own country.  And 2) Try to avoid inflammatory fats and oils and instead use anti-inflammatory fats and oils.

Also know that this condition may simply resolve itself and you may never know what it was.  It has only been a few months now and it may just go away on its own.  (That is what we would pray for!)  But the most important thing is to continue to follow up with the tests and to give your doctors a chance to figure out what is going on.  As for the supplements you are taking, I would be more concerned about the Vitamin A than the Vitamin C.  Too much Vitamin A can be toxic to the liver and you should be VERY careful with it.  Some people have expressed concern about Vitamin C and Peyronies.  I don't believe it.  I have been taking LARGE amounts of Vitamin C now for quite a long time and never have had any perceivable problem with it.  But I would be VERY AFRAID about Vitamin A.  Beta Carotene is the precursor to Vitamin A and is MUCH safer if you are trying to address possible Vitamin A deficiency.  ALSO, Zinc, while helpful to the immune system in the right amount will actually impair your immune system if you take too much of it.  DO NOT take more than 30mg per day of Zinc and even that amount might be too much.  Actually, it is now being discovered that Vitamin D at around 1,000IU per day is one of the best Vitamins for the immune system.  But be very careful when you take Vitamins.  Some Vitamins can be VERY toxic if you take too much.  Vitamin A is one of the most dangerous.  People DIE from taking too much Vitamin A!  Be careful.  Treat them like drugs.


-  George  

[meanmrmustard]

yesterday i was diagnosed with sleep apnea AND left-sided varikozele (by two different doctors of course).

the lung-specialist that diagnosed sleep apnea (after making me sleep connected to a little robot), insists that the problem is my low-blood pressure. i stopped taking effortil because my urologist told me it might have bad effects on my ED problems, I am therefore considering getting a prescription for Fludrocortisone, a medication that raises blood pressure by boosting blood volume. does anyone find clues that Fludrocortisone might be bad for ED or mess with VitE/L-Arginine/grafruitseed?

[Liam]

Did you see German doctors? in Spain? 2 of them?

vaikozele (German)

varicocele (English and Spanish)

I hope I'm wrong.  Are you treating yourself by reading internet articles then using us for a sounding board?

[ThisSux]

Dr Mulhall wants to do a Doppler Ultrasound as he thinks he feels a plaque but cannot be sure. I currently have no curve, but a thickened painful tunica on top, and slight ED. The reason stated for wanting to do it is that if I do indeed have a new plaque (in a different area I might add) then more aggressive treatment might be warranted.

I am a bit paranoid about the injection used to induce an erection. Can anyone explain to me why it is not a bad idea for someone with Peyronies to add yet another injury to their penis?   When I asked Dr Mulhall about this when i saw him last, he sort of chuckled and said that it was a very small needle and I didn't need to worry about it...

I asked his nurse if Viagra could be used instead (something I read about other Urologists doing) but was told that Mulhall only uses the injections.

Naturally I am not satisfied by these answers.

[meanmrmustard]

Did you see German doctors? in Spain? 2 of them?

vaikozele (German)

varicocele (English and Spanish)

I hope I'm wrong.  Are you treating yourself by reading internet articles then using us for a sounding board?

of course not. I returned to austria, my home country, and I am glad to be treated by doctors that speak my language now (german - we don't have our own language, only very strong dialects).

[Hawk]

I developed Peyronies Disease 6 months after starting bimix injections with the same tiny needle they use.  I too have to wonder how they attribute Peyronies Disease to micro-trauma then scoff when you show up with Peyronies Disease after sticking a needle in your penis.  

There is one area that I cannot remain silent on however..  All evidence from the timing, to the exact location of the plaque, to studies on papaverine and penile plaque all convince me my Peyronies Disease was caused by injections for ED.  Evidence suggests that beyond the impact of the needle prick is papaverine itself.  It is a component of both bimix and trimix and reportedly carries a higher incidence of penile plaque than some other injections such as Caverject (prostaglandin E1).

Personally, I would try every ED option known to man before I tried injections.  If I tried injections I would try everything before I tried papaverine  

I presented warnings of plaque from pharmaceutical sites and studies but my doctor was not interested in seeing them.

Do a search on papaverine

After saying all that, I would probably allow one injection.  I took 80 before I got Peyronies Disease.  The shots do NOT hurt at all.  After the little skin stick, it is like pushing the needle into a bowl of apple sauce, no resistance, no pain.  Be sure to apply direct pressure with your thumb and index finger for 10 minutes to prevent any internal bleeding.  I would also not take any blood thinners because whole blood in tissue (as opposed to in the vessels) is considered an irritant that can induce scar tissue such as adhesions after surgery.

[Liam]

Austria has good docs and you can communicate face to face in your native language.  Present all of your concerns to them.  The questions you have been presenting here are outside the scope of this forum.  They are a little   extreme.  I would let a doctor field your questions and also control your meds.

BTW, you could join the "Blue Man Group" and be their "Blue Meanie"  (obscure Beatles reference from "Yellow Submarine")

[outsider]

EARLIER, I posted a message describing my recent development of lumps.  The lumps are mainly noticeable when erect.

PRESENTLY, I've just returned from my visit with Dr. Kim, listed on peyroniesassoc.org.  He said he believed 80% that I have thrombosis, and 20% that it could be Peyronie's.  He told me to continue taking Vitamin E and Ibuprofen, and if my condition doesn't get better, come see him in the fall.

I guess the doctors have no way of knowing whether, or not, an early condition will develop into Peyronie's.  If there was a way to tell, I'm sure Dr. Kim would've tried it.  So, now I'm in the mode of... wait and see if I gain curveture, deformity, ED, etc...  It's all too exciting.

It seems to that to me (in my case of trauma-induced) trauma leads to an injury which produces restricted blow flow, causing a less rigid erection, which allows the formation of scar tissue, which then leads to deformity, ED, etc.

Therefore, to beat this thing in the early stages, a person must continue to obtain strong and frequent erections that are capable of stretching the scar tissue, meanwhile, keeping the inflamation to a minimum.

Is this a correct understanding of this disease/condition?  If so, what's the best way of accomplishing the goal stated in the previous paragraph?  What's the best treatments, drugs, herbs, devices, testosterone, dosages, and so on?  Thanks for your help!  

[George999]

It is very important to note that trauma to the penis does not always lead to Peyronies.  I would actually suspect that it does not usually lead to Peyronies.  So it would seem entirely possible to experience multiple thrombosis through trauma and have it heal on its own and never experience Peyronies.  But yes, you do need to deal with the inflammation, etc.  I would be a little concerned about the Vitamin E, since it is a blood thinner, and if you do actually have thrombosis, that would not be good.  But if the doc thinks its OK, he should know.  You might want to consider taking some Vitamin K2 (MK-7), since that will tend to counteract the blood thinning effects of Vitamin E without decreasing its benefits.  Also, be sure you are taking a full spectrum version of Vitamin E with all 8 tocos.  - George

[Liam]

Thrombosis will more than likely go away with time.

"No way in hell this becomes Peyronies Disease", I say confidently.  You should give your penis a rest.  Also, what George said about supplements.  Try a heating pad, too.  Just don't heat up your testicles if you plan on reproducing in the near future.

Liam (I'm not really a doctor. I just have a picture of someone who is not really a doctor by my name.)

[Hawk]

How can you be positive this injury that Dr. Kim says may already be Peyronies Disease, won't become Peyronies Disease if it is thrombosis?

[Liam]

H. Özkara1, E. Akkučs1, B. Alici1, H. Akpinar1 and H. Hattat1

(1)  Department of Urology, Sexual Dysfunction Center, Istanbul University, Cerrahpaşa School of Medicine, Istanbul, Turkey

Accepted: 8 January 1996  

Abstract  In our center between 1992 and 1994 penile Mondor's disease (superficial dorsal penile vein thrombosis) was diagnosed in 5 patients aged 20–39 years. In all patients the thromboses were noted 24–48 hours after a prolonged sexual act with or without an intercourse. The main symptom was a cord-like thickening of the superficial veins, which were painless or slightly painful. Doppler examination of the superficial dorsal vein revealed obstruction of the vessels. In 2 patients the retroglandular plexus was also involved. Patients were treated with anti-inflammatory medications (Tenoxicam or Ibuprofen). The resolution of the thrombosis occurred uneventfully within 4–6 weeks. No recurrence or erectile dysfunction was noted in any of the patients. Penile Mondor's disease is a benign pathology of the superficial dorsal penile vein and should be taken into account in the differential diagnosis of penile pathologies.

Source: http://www.springerlink.com/content/v040957027258w78/

There are plenty O' links out there saying the same stuff.  

Diffuse swelling of the penis in a young adult

The first 150 words of the full text of this article appear below.

   Q1: What is the probable diagnosis?
Mondor's disease of the penis. It is thrombophlebitis of the superficial dorsal vein of the penis.


   Q2: What is the aetiology and pathology of this condition?
The main cause of the disease is frequent or prolonged intercourse. Other causes are enumerated in box 1. Thrombophlebitis of the superficial dorsal vein of the penis is a benign disease. Clinical and experimental evidence from previous reports suggests that stretching and torsion of the vein resulting from genital trauma leads to endothelial damage and thrombosis. Thrombophlebitis of the superficial dorsal penile vein can be divided into three clinical stages: acute, subacute, and chronic.


Table Removed (Available Only in the Full Text)




   Q3: How can this condition be managed?
The majority of the cases of Mondor's disease of the penis are treated conservatively. The acute stage has been treated in a variety of ways with anti-inflammatory agents, anticoagulant drugs, and antibiotics with good results. For subacute and chronic stages, most have used anti-inflammatory agents and local heparin creams. Most cases resolve in four to six weeks. It is important that . . . [Full text of this article]

Source: http://pmj.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/76/895/311b

He said he believed 80% that I have thrombosis, and 20% that it could be Peyronie's.

Thats doctor speak for its a thrombosis but I never say anything 100% because.... well we all know the reason  

[outsider]

George,
As stated earlier, my Urologist believes I have thrombosis and states there is the possibility it may be Peyronie's.  I know you're not a doctor, but... IN YOUR OPINION, from all of your reading/investigation/studying, would it be harmful to treat this condition as if it were Peyronie's?  In other words, if Pentox is the number one treatment for Peyronie's, why shouldn't I just take it, just in case?  I've considered seeing another Uro and specifically asking for Pentox.  I understand I've sustained some form of trauma that presents itself in the form of "lumps," which may likely NOT lead to Peyronies Disease.  So, trauma does not equal Peyronies Disease.  Still, I had one of the premier Peyronies experts say, in his mind, there's a 20% chance I may have it.  That's more than troubling.  I don't understand it.  If Pentox is such a great treatment for Peyronie's and has no significantly negative side effects, then why not prescribe in as a backup plan?

Also, what dosage do you recommend for Goat Weed?

[Hawk]

He said he believed 80% that I have thrombosis, and 20% that it could be Peyronie's.

Thats doctor speak for its a thrombosis but I never say anything 100% because.... well we all know the reason  

Prior to my 3rd biopsy, my urologist told me " I am 80 % sure you do not have prostate cancer"  Ten days later he said " you have a small quanity of very angry, highly aggressive, prostate cancer"  

I think you have to take doctor Kim at his word as giving his sincere opinion.  This means with his vast expertise and experience, he thinks there is a real possibility of Peyronies Disease.  If he does not give sincere opinions (and I think he does) then it would be appropriate to find another doctor.

While most injuries do NOT result in Peyronies Disease, many do.  Having an additional problem like thrombosis does not preclude having or developing Peyronies Disease.  In my opinion, the only prudent reaction is to stay calm, assume it is not Peyronies Disease but consider that it could be.

[George999]

The active ingredient in Horny Goat Weed is Icariin.  So the first thing to do is to calculate the Icariin content of your Goat Weed.  It is usually standardized to 10%.  Right now I am taking 1500mg of Horny Goat Weed per day which equals 150mg Icariin.  That is a low dose.  In the past I have taken 4500mg HGW per day = 450mg per day Icariin for an extended period.  Its effect will be to make your erections stronger and longer lasting just as you would expect with Viagra or Cialis.  The difference is that you are taking a low amount of it continually, not just when you need it to perform, as is the classic usage of Viagra or Cialis.  So you have to use some degree of judgement depending on how you react to it.  The purpose, of course, is to provide an abundant amount of robust erections, not to induce priapism.  The right amount would be different for different individuals.  It is all a matter of starting out low and ratcheting up until you are at a comfortable level.  It is all a matter of judgment.

Pentox.   The issue with Pentox is that doctors by nature and training are often reluctant to prescribe drugs unless there is a very clear need for them.  Thus, they don't like to prescribe even inexpensive, safe and non-narcotic drugs like Pentox without a pretty solid diagnosis.  But if you openly request it, your current uro might consider it, or you might indeed want to go to another doctor and ask for it.  Personally, I don't see that it would do a lot of harm, although some users report having had unpleasant side effects, but, again, I am not a doctor, so I can't really advise you on whether or not you should be taking it.  It is something you probably need to discuss more with your doctor.  - George

[Hawk]

Outsider,

Please take this in the spirit of a bunch of peers sitting around coming up with ideas on how to help each other through this challenge..

As George indicated, the question why not take Pentox just in case it is Peyronies Disease, would be best directed at your doctor.  I think it needs to be re-emphasized we should NEVER go to a doctor without mulling (and discussing) issues over in advance and making a written list of questions, and comments.  It is a bit late to ask plumbers, computer geeks, and truck drivers here on the forum immediately AFTER a doctors visit.

Among other things, Pentox changes blood composition and blood cell structure.  Since thrombosis involves a problem with the circulatory system, the questions is, "Could Pentox have a negative impact in a thrombosis patient?"  In your case the clot is caused by an injury at the site.  Could it cause bleeding?  Blood is a tissue irritant that CAUSES scar tissue?  All you have to do is ask these questions to know that they are the type of questions that need to be directed to a medical doctor.

Rule 1:
Patients need to prepare for doctor appointments.

[George999]

Hawk, You make a really good point about Pentox perhaps even wreaking more damage in the case of a thrombosis.  I hadn't even thought of that one.  I guess these are the kind of catch 22s we pay doctors to figure out.  Even so, I would suggest that outsider DIRECTLY ask his doctor whether this might be an issue at the time he inquires about Pentox.  Even doctors can overlook things and the best patient is the one who takes an active interest in his own treatment plan and he/she is usually the one with the best outcome as a result.  You are oh so right ... it is really important to ask A LOT of questions when you visit the doctor.  In the end that will save you a lot of trouble.  - George

[needasolution]

you're prednisone comment is intriguing.  I'm assuming you had it for something completely unrelated.  i'm new to this whole discussion forum thing, i've just been reading posts and haven't written a word.  this is my first response to anyone.

I need to hear more about the prednisone!  thanks!

[Liam]

Prednisone is not a Peyronies Disease drug.  I was commenting on it helping inflamation and possibly helping (temporarily) my Peyronies Disease.  It is not a short term or long term solution.  Check it's long term use side effects.    I was using it for some back and neck problems.

[ThisSux]

After saying all that, I would probably allow one injection.  I took 80 before I got Peyronies Disease.  The shots do NOT hurt at all.  After the little skin stick, it is like pushing the needle into a bowl of apple sauce, no resistance, no pain.  Be sure to apply direct pressure with your thumb and index finger for 10 minutes to prevent any internal bleeding.  I would also not take any blood thinners because IMO, blood in penile tissue is not good.

hi Hawk,

Thanks for this reply. I am trying to be rational but I really do not want this shot. I guess I feel that I know what is going on and that I should just start pentox and possibly IONTO and that there is no need for the doppler (and no need for another penis wound)

On the other hand, maybe the doppler will reveal something that indicates aggressive treatment is needed?

Dr. Mulhall just wasn't very convincing. In the beginning of the session he told me it was fine that I didn't come in for the doppler two years ago because "it is entirely optional" and then at the end he said he would like to do one. At the time I just didn't think to say "hey lets just treat it as if it were aggressive and forget the doppler".

In general I am not trusting of doctors (no offense to any reading this board, but i have had bad experiences), but Dr Mulhall is a leading expert in this field and if he says the needle is no cause for concern, maybe I should listen to him??

[Hawk]

TS,

Do you know if Dr. Mulhall will even prescribe Pentox or Ionto?  I have never heard of him having a real positive view of either.  When he treated me he seemed to rely on Cholchicine and / or Verapamil injections almost exclusively as his non-surgical approach.

If this is true, and if you know you are opposed to his treatment before you even have the test, then I would suggest trying elsewhere.  There are other top uros that will prescribe pentox and many general practice doctors that would do the same.

If he will prescribe pentox and if he requires the ultra sound to do so, I would go ahead.  I think a call to his nurse will resolve what he will prescribe and if he requires an ultrasound to do so.  You will have to decide if the prescription/requirement combination is something you are willing to pursue.

[ThisSux]

TS,

Do you know if Dr. Mulhall will even prescribe Pentox or Ionto?  I have never heard of him having a real positive view of either.  When he treated me he seemed to rely on Cholchicine and / or Verapamil injections almost exclusively as his non-surgical approach.

If this is true, and if you know you are opposed to his treatment before you even have the test, then I would suggest trying elsewhere.  There are other top uros that will prescribe pentox and many general practice doctors that would do the same.

If he will prescribe pentox and if he requires the ultra sound to do so, I would go ahead.  I think a call to his nurse will resolve what he will prescribe and if he requires an ultrasound to do so.  You will have to decide if the prescription/requirement combination is something you are willing to pursue.

Thanks again Hawk,

I had heard the same as well and so I mentioned Pentox to him. He said that it may or may not work but overall didn't seem to like the idea. Then when we were discussing the other plaque he thinks he may have found, he said that if after the doppler he thought it seemed like a new inflammatory process, he may give me pentox and colchicine.

The problem is that he spoke very quickly and I was in a bit of a daze and didn't really have a chance to say "I want pentox, I want...etc"

The reason I went back to him is because I have tried 4 other Uros in NYC and none of them knew a single thing about Peyronies! One said this was something that only affected people 40 and up, another said he didn't feel plaque and that the pain must have been from something else and another said that it must be referred pain from a varicocele!..etc

None were willing to prescribe Pentox.

I am just getting desperate.

I think I will call his nurse and as you say, tell her what I am interested in and ask if having the ultrasound will actually change my treatment options. I don't want verapamil injections... which he also seems keen on.

[Liam]

While researching Dr. Hellstrom at Tulane, I found this oldie (relatively) but goodie.  It may be new for some or a good review for others.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Discoveries in Peyronie's Disease: Etiology, Prevalence, and Therapies  CME
Disclosures

Wayne J. G. Hellstrom, MD, FACS  

Introduction
Peyronie's disease (Peyronies Disease) is a localized connective tissue disorder of the tunica albuginea of the penis with an uncertain etiology. The condition was named after Francois Gigot de la Peyronie, the personal physician of King Louis XVI. Common presenting complaints of Peyronies Disease include palpable penile plaque, painful erections, and curvature of the penis. It is a psychologically debilitating problem, and afflicted men demonstrate a significantly reduced quality of life. New inroads into understanding the etiology of this condition at the molecular and cellular levels are ongoing.


Prevalence of Peyronie's Disease
Earlier studies on the prevalence of Peyronies Disease reported 0.38% to 2.0% of the adult male population being affected; however, the true prevalence is unknown. Schwarzer and colleagues[1] devised a validated questionnaire on this subject and sent out a mailing to 8000 male inhabitants of the Cologne, Germany, area. The response rate was more than 55% and the prevalence of Peyronies Disease in this normal adult male population (mean age, 57.4 years) was 3.2%. In the 30- to 39-year age group, 1.5% observed localized induration; this rate escalated with advancing age to 6.5% in men older than 70 years. Of the 142 men with Peyronies Disease, 58 (40.8%) revealed that they suffered from concurrent erectile dysfunction, a known consequence of this disease.
In another retrospective review, Matkov and colleagues[2] found that 30 (7%) of 453 patients with Peyronies Disease were younger than 40 years. Important characteristics of this younger population with Peyronies Disease included: (1) a defined traumatic etiology usually occurring during intercourse; (2) pain during erection as a presenting complaint; and (3) outcomes of various therapies (either intralesional verapamil or surgical correction) were superior compared with those in a meta-analysis of 50 papers on Peyronies Disease with men of all ages.

An autoimmune etiology for Peyronies Disease has been hypothesized for many years. Hauck and colleagues[3] determined the prevalence of HLA classes I and II in 52 consecutive patients with Peyronies Disease and in 1923 healthy bone marrow donors. They found a significant increase in DRw52 in the population with Peyronies Disease. Other autoimmune conditions recognized to have an increased rate of DRw52 include Sjogren's syndrome, Behcet's disease, systemic sclerosis, and systemic lupus. How the presence of such a specific antigen induces an autoimmune response is unknown; Peyronies Disease is undoubtedly a multifactorial disorder, and the authors suggest that the presence of DRw52 predisposes individuals to the disease's occurrence.


Animal Models of Peyronie's Disease
Animal models allow for controlled experimentation of difficult disease processes, such as Peyronies Disease. Studies using a rat model by Bivalacqua and colleagues[4] employed adult male rats undergoing injection of transforming growth factor (TGF)-beta1 into the tunica albuginea, direct surgical injury to the tunica albuginea, and a control group. Constitutive nitric oxide synthase (NOS) levels were basically unchanged over the course of 6 weeks, but inducible NOS (iNOS) was found to be significantly elevated in the TGF-beta1 and surgical injury rats compared with the controls. Concurrent studies demonstrated decreased intracavernosal pressure measurements to either cavernosal nerve stimulation or intracavernous acetylcholine (an endothelium-dependent vasodilator). To show that the presence of elevated iNOS protein levels inhibited the erectile response, these investigators used the iNOS inhibitor, aminoguanidine. This enhanced the erectile response in these experimental animals. These data provide a scientific rationale for the observation of a 40% erectile dysfunction rate in men with Peyronies Disease.
Innovative experiments can also be explored through the use of animal models. Such is the case in a study that used acellular tunica albuginea matrix grafts in New Zealand rabbits.[5] Each animal had 4 × 8 mm defects made in the tunica albuginea and had these experimental grafts placed. Follow-up studies at 1 and 3 months revealed complete resorption of these grafts and replacement with normal tissues. In theory, acellular tunica albuginea matrix grafts serve as scaffold, which are resorbed over time and replaced with normal host tissues as documented by histopathologic studies. These experimental grafts have been used successfully in the bladder and urethra, and these authors suggest that such grafts may become an alternative when vein material is not readily available.

In theory, Peyronies Disease is a dysregulation of wound healing. To determine whether this is a local or tunical field defect process, fluorescence in situ hybridization (FISH) analysis was carried out on fibroblasts derived from a Peyronie's plaque sample and from "normal" tunical tissue from a place distant from the plaque.[6] Chromosomal instability was documented at the Peyronies Disease site and elsewhere, which was more progressive after increasing the number of cell culture passages, suggesting that Peyronies Disease is a field defect. Progressive chromosomal instability can be anticipated over time and, when combined with the cofactor of penile trauma (eg, intercourse), it can be expected to cause progressive Peyronies Disease complaints, such as penile shrinkage.

In further exploration of the connective tissue components of Peyronies Disease, Elterman and colleagues[7] evaluated the composition of the extracellular matrix. The authors measured the levels of decorin, biglycan, fibromodulin, gelatinase A, and collagenase II in men with Peyronies Disease who were suffering from erectile dysfunction. Alterations of these extracellular matrix proteins suggest an abnormality in the remodeling process in men with Peyronies Disease. Unfortunately, the Peyronies Disease plaque was compared with erectile dysfunction patients only, which may not be representative of the normal process occurring in the tunica albugineal tissues.

Vein grafts have been advocated by a number of authorities. In a canine study[8] comparing vein grafts and tunica vaginalis, no significant difference in collagen formation of endothelial nitric oxide synthase (eNOS) immunohistochemical staining was observed at 3 and 6 months. It is possible that the presence of nitric oxide from the endothelium of the vein may prevent early thrombus formation. Tunica vaginalis is not generally recommended for tunical coverage after Peyronie's plaque excision because of the possibility of herniation. In addition, the dog model is not advocated as an animal model for research in Peyronies Disease, because the dog tunica albuginea does not stretch in a similar fashion to that observed in the tunica in humans. The rat tunica albuginea is bilayered and more similiar to the human tunica; therefore, it is probably the better animal model for the study of Peyronies Disease.


Current Therapies
Treatments for Peyronies Disease include oral medications, intralesional injection programs, and a variety of surgical reconstructive procedures. For the most part, oral therapies are ineffective, and any reported early success with their use is most likely secondary to the natural resolution of Peyronies Disease observed in 5% to 40% of cases within the first 12 months of symptom presentation.
Most patients request a less invasive approach than surgery. An injection approach has been popularized by Levine and Goldman,[9] who reported on 143 men treated in a nonrandomized fashion during the past 8 years. The intralesional injection technique involves multiple punctures, in which 10 mg of verapamil is diluted in 10 cc of normal saline and distributed throughout the plaque every 2 to 4 weeks for a total of 6 to 12 injections. The authors report a decrease in penile curvature in 61% (range, 10-40 degrees), an increase in penile curvature in 8.3%, and no change in 31%. Subjective evaluation by these Peyronies Disease men revealed decreased emotional distress in 85% and improved sexual performance in 91%. The authors suggest that this inexpensive, nontoxic, and nonsurgical alternative should be offered to nearly all patients. No complications were encountered (such as cardiovascular or blood pressure changes), no recurrences were found after 6 years of follow-up, and no specific difficulties were encountered in the surgical correction of men who did not respond to intralesional therapy and needed surgical intervention.

In surgical therapy for debilitating Peyronies Disease, a modification of the Horton-Devine procedure was used in 27 men who had failed medical therapy.[10] Eighteen patients had derma grafts, and 9 received cadaveric pericardial grafts after Peyronie's plaque excision. Though the final reported patient results in both groups were comparable and had similar profiles regarding patient satisfaction, the authors concluded that cadaveric pericardium is an excellent choice of graft material following excision/incision of Peyronie's plaque because it eliminates the time and skill needed for harvesting and the associated morbidity. Elsewhere it has been said that DNA was recovered after cadaveric tensor fascia lata tissue was used for uretheral slings. Ostensibly, the extensive tutoplast preparation procedure reduces many of these concerns, but it is recommended that patients sign an informed consent prior to any procedure. The use of cadaveric pericardial tissue allows the possibility for many reconstructive procedures involving the penis.

In a Dutch study[11] on the results of different plication procedures for either congenital curvature or Peyronies Disease, the authors compared satisfaction results of the surgeons and from their patients' subjective reports. Success with these procedures was higher in the congenital curvature group; a sizable number of plicated Peyronies Disease patients complained of penile shortening, erectile dysfunction, and decreased overall sexual satisfaction. Because this result was more apparent from the patients' subjective assessment, the authors recommend that all patients undergoing reconstructive penile surgery receive preoperative and postoperative sexologic counseling.


Summary
The etiology of Peyronies Disease remains a mystery, and the disease has been demonstrated to affect more of the adult male population than previously recognized. Most authorities believe that Peyronies Disease has a multifactorial etiology, with repetitive microtrauma during intercourse inducing an autoimmune reactive process in genetically susceptible individuals. The recent introduction of animal models to study the cellular and molecular aspects of Peyronies Disease will undoubtedly allow for progress to be made in understanding this enigmatic condition.

References
Schwarzer U, Klotz T, Braun M, et al. Prevalence of Peyronie's disease: results of an 8,000 men survey. Program and abstracts from the American Urological Association 95th Annual Meeting; April 29 - May 4, 2000; Atlanta, Georgia. Abstract 742.
Matkov G, Levine LA, Storm DW. Peyronie's disease affecting the younger male. Program and abstracts from the American Urological Association 95th Annual Meeting; April 29 - May 4, 2000; Atlanta, Georgia. Abstract 743.
Hauck W, Warten U, Hackstein H, et al. HLA-system screening in Peyronie's disease. Program and abstracts from the American Urological Association 95th Annual Meeting; April 29 - May 4, 2000; Atlanta, Georgia. Abstract 744.
Bivalacqua TJ, Diner EK, Novak TE, et al. A rat model of Peyronie's disease associated with a decrease in erectile activity and an increase in inducible nitric oxide synthase protein expression. Program and abstracts from the American Urological Association 95th Annual Meeting; April 29 - May 4, 2000; Atlanta, Georgia. Abstract 745.
Wefer J, Sekido N, Bakircioglou ME, et al. Acellular tunica albuginea graft for functional penile reconstruction in rabbits: a model for treatment of Peyronie's disease. Program and abstracts from the American Urological Association 95th Annual Meeting; April 29 - May 4, 2000; Atlanta, Georgia. Abstract 746.
Mulhall JP, Lubrano T, Thom J, et al. Cytogenetic evidence in support of Peyronie's disease being a tunical field defect process. Program and abstracts from the American Urological Association 95th Annual Meeting; April 29 - May 4, 2000; Atlanta, Georgia. Abstract 747.
Elterman L, Bewsey K, Cs-Szabo G, et al. Connective tissue components of Peyronie's disease plaque. Program and abstracts from the American Urological Association 95th Annual Meeting; April 29 - May 4, 2000; Atlanta, Georgia. Abstract 748.
Henry GD, Coming TJ, Makuli, MJ, et al. Histochemical analysis of vein grafting of the tunica albuginea in comparison to tunica vaginalis. Program and abstracts from the American Urological Association 95th Annual Meeting; April 29 - May 4, 2000; Atlanta, Georgia. Abstract 749.
Levine LA, Goldman KE. Updated experience with intralesional verapamil injection treatment for Peyronie's disease. Program and abstracts from the American Urological Association 95th Annual Meeting; April 29 - May 4, 2000; Atlanta, Georgia. Abstract 751.
Chun JL, McGregor A, Krishnan R, et al. A comparison of dermal and cadaveric pericardium graft in the Horton-Devine procedure for Peyronie's disease. Program and abstracts from the American Urological Association 95th Annual Meeting; April 29 - May 4, 2000; Atlanta, Georgia. Abstract 752.
van der Drift DGF, Vroege JA, Groenendijik PM, et al. The plication procedure for penile curvature: surgical outcome and post-operative sexual function. Program and abstracts from the American Urological Association 95th Annual Meeting; April 29 - May 4, 2000; Atlanta, Georgia. Abstract 753.

Source: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/420187

[Hawk]

Liam,

Does this have a date on it?  He indicates a pretty high resolution rate.

[Liam]

I found this on another site referring to this paper  .  I wonder why the post didn't list the date?  Anyways:

Hellstrom, W. J. G. Discoveries in Peyronie's disease: Etiology, prevalence, and therapies. American Urological Association 95th Annual Meeting, April 29, 2000

For the most part, oral therapies are ineffective, and any reported early success with their use is most likely secondary to the natural resolution of Peyronies Disease observed in 5% to 40% of cases within the first 12 months of symptom presentation.

Yes he does report a high resolution rate.

In another retrospective review, Matkov and colleagues[2] found that 30 (7%) of 453 patients with Peyronies Disease were younger than 40 years. Important characteristics of this younger population with Peyronies Disease included: (1) a defined traumatic etiology usually occurring during intercourse; (2) pain during erection as a presenting complaint; and (3) outcomes of various therapies (either intralesional verapamil or surgical correction) were superior compared with those in a meta-analysis of 50 papers on Peyronies Disease with men of all ages.

Oh to be young.  

[Liam]

This is just FYI.  I posted it because I know some people will start to be curious.  Thought this list was interesting.  Just another reason to go to a doctor    .  I got an "A" 100%  

Choose the responses below that best describe how you have been feeling.

1. Do you have a decrease in libido (sex drive)?
Yes
No

2. Do you have a lack of energy?
Yes
No

3. Do you have a decrease in strength and/or endurance?
Yes
No

4. Have you lost height?
Yes
No

5. Have you noticed a decreased "enjoyment of life?"
Yes
No

6. Are you sad and/or grumpy?
Yes
No

7. Are your erections less strong?
Yes
No

8. Have you noticed a recent deterioration in your ability to play sports?
Yes
No

9. Are you falling asleep after dinner?
Yes
No

10. Has there been a recent deterioration in your work performance?
Yes
No


Source: Saint Louis University Androgen Deficiency in Aging Men (ADAM) Questionnaire. John Morley, M.D., Saint Louis University School of Medicine, June 1997.

Source: http://www.menshealthnetwork.org/timeout/lowtestosterone.htm

[George999]

I just ran across the following information on elastin.

1)  While elastin production in the body declines precipitously at puberty, it does not cease altogether.

2)  Elastin is important because it adds elasticity to tissue.  One of the effects of Peyronies is to reduce and/or eliminate the amount of elastin in affected tissues.

3) The biological switch for elastin production is cAMP/cGMP ratio.  Increase in cAMP shuts down elastin production (bad).  Increase in cGMP ramps up elastin production (good).

4) Both Icariin (Horny Goat Weed) and Viagra increase cGMP which is good news in terms of elastin.

5) Forskolin increases cAMP levels which means that forskolin with all of its potential benefits may not be good for elastin production.

6) Since reducing levels of cAMP can lead to increased inflammation, this is probably not a solution, rather the target would need to be increasing cGMP levels IN PROPORTION to cAMP levels.

- George

PS - This post has been modified by me due to an error in my initial post.  Icariin actually increases cAMP and decreases cGMP selectively in cancer cells meaning that it may have benefits in fighting cancer.  I originally misinterpreted this as indicating that icariin might be bad for elastin production.

[Hawk]

2)  Elastin is important because it adds elasticity to tissue.  One of the effects of Peyronies is to reduce and/or eliminate the amount of elastin in affected tissues.

George,

We those your numbered points or was it copied from some other source.  I am specifically interested in #2 above and any source documentation.

Thanks

Hawk