GENERAL COMMENTS & Questions - that won't fit under any of our other topics

[ComeBacKid]

I will never again choose a health insurance plan that uses MEDCO.  There representatives are miserable, they lied to me mutliple times, strung me out for a month, and finally won't pay my claims.  It is yet again big business in America taking advantage of the little guy who plays by the rules and pays their ridiculously high monthly premiums everytime for years.  Medco is shameful and unamerican, what a disgrace.

ComeBackid

[Barry]

Insurance companies are bottom feeding leeches. When my wife got Cancer they tried to play the "no pay that" game but in the end we got every dime. She has finished chemo and will soon start radiation therapy so they still have time to try, but they will pay out one way or the other, we just have to be persistant. Refusing to pay out is just a game they play.

Best to All

BF  

[j]

pudder135, I also had MEDCO and they paid nothing for my TV.  

Easterling has us over a barrel because he refuses to license his patented formula to other pharmacies, and PDL isn't a MEDCO network provider.  I sent MEDCO a letter pointing out that this medication is patented and available from only one source - but no dice.

[ComeBacKid]

I'm challenging their denial to pay my claim and taking them on, they paid for one months of it they paid out a pathetic $94 for the $270 tube, now they wont pay my three month supply for $700.  I"m writing letters to my plan group that chose them, and MEDCO appeals headquarters.  I've called in at least 7 times and filed verbal complaints and ripped their supervisor for lieing to me.  They are liars and thieves and will cut and run with your cash.  They will do anything they can to deny paying out.  I will fight them and re-appeal endlessly.  I will continue to file complaints until they pay even if it takes months.

ComeBackid

[Fighter]

I have Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey and they paid about 57% of my TV prescription. (Approx. $400.00 out of the $700.00 bill) When I called them to see if they would pay they told me that as long as one of the NDC numbers are in the compounding drug it would be covered by a certain percentage. The verapamil NDC number was in the plan so it cover it.

[ComeBacKid]

Fighter,

I bet you haven't seen any results from the TV just like me and zigwyth... and we were on this forum before we started using TV, we aren't people that didn't "move on" after the so called drug cured them.

I bet your balls are burning like hell as you type...

ComeBackid

[cajunot]

I like that Liam!  Now that was funny!

Okay, I had my second go round with interferon injections yesterday.  It was much less painful than the first go round.  This time it only felt like sticking ice onto a tooth needing a root canal.  That was just the pain killer.  The doctor called it "freezing" the penis.  After that, I didn't feel the interferon injections at all.

No big side-effects this time.  I took Alieve before I went and 3 more times by this morning and I feel pretty good.  My penis is sore, as if an ex-girlfriend was using it as a voodoo doll, but I will live.

Really am not expecting great results yet, but hopefull for the next few months.  If not, my physician has left me hopeful for things comming out in the near future.  He didn't go into detail (and really I wasn't thinking of getting details as he was "freezing" me), but he said he is on the board for a company that is researching a new drug.  Supposingly this drug will dissolve plaque and calcium deposits as if it were being cut out with a knife.  I will remember to ask more questions in a month when he sees me again.  He is on vacation in two weeks and another doctor will be applying the interferon injections then.

Oh, on a side note, if you are getting any kind of injections, have your spouse or significant other there.  Great sympathy points!!!!  Mine came for one of my verapimil injections and my last two interferon injections.  I have the freedom to whine all I want about anything and she won't say a word  I just tell her during the injections that I am only doing this for her

Anyways, no change yet except my penis looks and feels like an abused voodoo doll, but I'll keep everyone updated on what I find out and what my results are.

[ComeBacKid]

Everyone make sure they take the new PDS survey, it is basically about what each individual member can do to help and improve our forum.  I think our administrators can alwasy use an extra hand, especially hawk who has done so much for this forum and built it from scratch!  We watn to keep improving our forum as we grow so make sure everyone takes that survey!

ComeBackid

[ComeBacKid]

I've read and J has stated that steroids can cause tissue atrophy.  Since IONO uses decadron in its mixture, which is a steroid, could this cause tissue atrophy?  I read some reports online and it seems like they are talking about tissue atrophy when used via injections.

ComeBackid

[Tim468]

I've read and J has stated that steroids can cause tissue atrophy.  Since IONO uses decadron in its mixture, which is a steroid, could this cause tissue atrophy?  I read some reports online and it seems like they are talking about tissue atrophy when used via injections.

No - it won't do that.

[Tim468]

In the category of stuff that slightly annoy me are minor typographical errors. I just went to the web site for the PDS and wanted to vent:

It is INTRA-lesional verapamil, not INTER-lesional verapamil... and

In the Verapamil results survey, there are "EFFECTS", or it could say "What was AFFECTED", but not what was "EFFECTED".

Phew! I feel much better!

Tim

[Liam]

Tim,

    I hope the effect of your post will be to give you a more pleasant affect while reading other posts.

[Hawk]

In the category of stuff that slightly annoy me are minor typographical errors. I just went to the web site for the PDS and wanted to vent:...

Phew! I feel much better

I feel better too Tim.  That is a case in point as to why one person cannot do this alone.  I have been pleading for members to proof read what I design and publish to the site for months.  

Update on the survey page....

As always, let me know about typos, grammatical errors, or links that don't work.  Adding one or two pages require that I modify multiple links on every page.  Bad links KILL our search engine rankings for months, so notify me at once if you find them.  It is difficult to design, proof read, and test, along with my other duties.

I appreciate the help and support.

Hawk.

Thanks for the proof reading help Tim, and for letting me know.  

Hawk

[Liam]

Here is another link I hope is useful.  This site contains abstracts/talks presented at American Urological Association, May 20 - 25, 2006.  It requires an easy registration.  The site allows you to search be author or keyword.

http://www.abstracts2view.com/aua/

[zigwyth]

Tim. Ima sory if tipografical errs piss u off. Althow I wuz 3rd Grade spellin champ,I stoped there. Hahaha. Just had to do that! Pisses me off too. Anyway, ComeBackid, I thought after our discussion and your many posts of slamming PDL, that you were not going to order anymore of the TV? What gives? HOPE?
Zig The Twig

[ComeBacKid]

I didn't order anymore of the junk, I just have a tube that is mostly full that I"m goign to finish up using.  The crap doesnt work at all.  I think when hawk gets the TV survey up there, it will show the true colors of TV from PDLabs.  And I was on this forum before I started that crap to, I"m not just here because it didn't work.  Many men who PMed me where here before or while using the crap.  PDLabs is full of crap and the stuff won't penetrate in deep enough to work.

ComeBackid

[ComeBacKid]

Guys,

Found this out of the wikipedia, a great resource for those who are doing research.

Penis Enlargment

Some things I found interesting from this literature.

Pills
"Penis enlargement pills" or ointments are commonly offered over the Internet; for the most part, are scams. At best, they promote blood flow to the penis in one way or another, temporarily resulting in a slightly larger erection. Herbal ingredients have included ginkgo biloba, a stimulant and vasodilator, and yohimbe, a sexual stimulant. While both of these ingredients may increase energy and sexual performance in the short term, neither is capable of increasing the length or size of the penis over time.

Jelqing & Clamping
Another method is known as jelqing (or jelquing). Jelqing is a technique intended to enlarge the penis by increasing the blood pressure in the penis, with the goal of permanently increasing the maximum erect size of the penis. This technique, also called "milking", involves wrapping the thumb and index finger around the penis while semi-erect and repeatedly drawing them away from one's body to force blood into the glans, thus encouraging more vascularity in the corpus cavernosa and associated tissues. Whether jelqing actually works or not is a subject of controversy.

The word (and technique) is rumored to have various Arabic origins (from the word "milking"); other sources claim the technique has its roots in tribal Africa (particularly Sudan); however, still other sources claim that it was an American invention and these rumors are simply rumors or propaganda meant to sell jelqing instructions. (According to wiktionary, entering جلق (jelq or jalgh) returns جلق زدن (jalgh zadan) meaning "to masturbate" in Persian. Persian and Arabic use the same basic script.) Still others maintain that this was ancient Russian tradition, practiced by midwives, and mothers for their sons early in life, as this was thought to enhance the size of the genitals. (Such techniques reportedly are the reason for Rasputin's massive organ) .Though there is a growing body of anecdotal evidence, and just one tiny non-blind study with very few participants that seem to suggest that it works, but otherwise there are no really definitive scientific studies to support the assertion or refute that this technique works, or that it is safe.

A study was performed in the late 1970s by Dr Brian Richards in the UK. It was published in the British Journal of Sexual Medicine and showed increases in 87 percent of the test subjects. Increases in penis length of up to 1.4 inches and girth of up to 1 inch were recorded.

Jelqing is inherently dangerous, and even if done correctly can cause injuries, from irritated skin and burst blood vessels to scarring and impaired penile function, including partial loss of erectile function and inability to maintain an erection. It should not be attempted by anyone without a complete understanding of the risks involved.

Traction
Another nonsurgical method to lengthen the penis is by employing devices (or one's own hands) that pull at the glans of the penis with continuous tension for extended periods of time. This is known as penis stretching or traction. If the applied tension is too large injury to the tissues or nerves of the penis can result. This is not recommended because it can forcibly tear off the vessels and other neurogical nerves thereby reducing the erectile functions of the penis.

Origins of traction can be traced back to thousands of years. Many tribes in Africa still use traction to expand certain body parts such as ears, lips and necks. Many penis enlargement companies use traction as a means of expanding one's penis. Most sites claim to produce permanent results, however, hard evidence on the accuracy of this statement still does not exist.

Transplantation
An experimental method is a complete penile transplant. With modern techniques and anti-rejection drugs, this certainly should be possible, but there has been no record of a successful attempt until very recently. An unverified report from India stated that a penis was taken from a male infant with two penes and attached to another male infant lacking a penis.[citation needed] The overwhelming drawback to this method, apart from the necessity to ever after take immunosuppression drugs, which carry numerous side effects and restrictions in lifestyle, is the unfortunate fact that, performed on an adult, there is no guarantee that significant sensation, if any, would develop in the transplanted penis. Evidence from hand transplant cases suggest that limited sensory input would be available, at best.

[Liam]

I hate to be a negative but, I think that some of the "natural" methods need to be approached with caution.  I submit this article on pH balance for review.

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/coral2.html

Colon cleansing and liver detoxification are words that scare me.  Please fully research these ideas before proceeding.  If someone is selling a plan product or promoting a book, their advice should be suspect.  Coffee IV, maybe; Coffee enema, never.  Skepticism can be a good thing.

As a caveat, this advice is from someone who stretches and pumps his penis .

[Rico]

Liam,

I'm only into this for three months, please let me know results from ved, do you think it is too early and what are you results, thank you brother.

Rico

[Liam]

I have the double whammy of prostate surgery and Peyronies Disease.  The VED was keeping up before the Peyronies Disease kicked in full strength.  Now the two treatments are keeping up.  Some of the loss I experienced has been recouped.  

The 1 year anniversary of my surgery is 7/12.

[Old Man]

Liam:

On 7/12/06, my wife and I will celebrate 43 years of marriage! Some anniversaries, huh? One year of Peyronies Disease for you and many years for us.

I too have prostate cancer with the aftermath of that and have had Peyronies Disease for over 50 years, so I know the feeling about that too.

Hope that things work for you on the Peyronies Disease circuit.

Old Man

[Liam]

I like your anniversary better.  AWESOME!!!

Congrats to you and your young lady.

As far as Peyronies Disease.  I feel that things have improved.  I doubt I will see a cure any time soon.  But, I'm learning to deal with it.

[Rico]

Liam,

I thought you would get a kick out of this. I read the article on the site you provided about nutrition. It list the doctor who wrote it, I thought it was a good article and wanted to read more by him. You can click on his home page. He list peyronies, He claims it is no big deal, it goes away on its own in five years. I only have 4 years and 9 months to go....Whopppeeeeeeee:)!!!  Take care brother..

Rico

[englishsyr]

in that case rico i have a year to go but some how i think it will go into extra time

[Rico]

I agree with you English, I meant it tounge and cheek. It blows me away how some of these articles read. I mean he said " Don't worry about it, it will go away on its own in five years", Please turn in your mail order degree as a Doctor.

Rico

[Liam]

http://www.drmirkin.com/men/1241.html

I guess nobody is right all the time.

Here are some other links.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/colon-cleansing/AN00065 - colon cleansing

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/060310.html - ridding the body of toxins

[ComeBacKid]

Hey Guys,

I was surfing MSNBC and saw this article on stem cell research.  Because there is such a promise for stem cell research to eventually cure peyronies or make our lives so much better through the study of stem cell research I thought it was important to make people aware of the debate going on in Congress.  

Senate to pass stem cell bill

Clearly the issue is a political one for some in Congress, and while we don't really want to turn this forum into a debate on stem cell research, its almost impossible to seperate politics on this issue, which does directly apply to the treatment of peyronies, and could effect the ability to regrow corpus Cavernosum tissue.  I think its important people are informed about the new possibilities that are out there, especially for us younger folks. As we don't want to turn this forum into a forum to debate politics, religion, etc... I think it is important that people are informed of bills in Congress that could relate directly to the treatment of their peyronies, you can always make your statement when you go to the polls with your vote.

Another article on stem cell research

Stem Cell Information

ComeBackid

[Blink]

Yeah, I watched/listened to some of that debate. Everybody there seems to have their political views on the subject. There where points made on both sides of the room. I could tell however that it will not be an easy issue to solve. The politicians all know what's best for us (sic). Keep the Faith, Blink

[ComeBacKid]

As expected the President vetoed the stem cell expansion bill making it easier to do more critical scientific research, that someday may lead to a full cure for peyronies sufferers and so many other diseases and cancers.  

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13934199/?GT1=8307

Despite last minute pleadings from Nancy Reagan, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and even Bill Frist in the Senate Bush slashed the bill, despite its passing in the Senate and House of Representatives. Does anyone know if Ron Reagan Jr. has an organization for his stem cell support, and how one might contact him?

Another good article on this subject:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13935219/

ComeBackid

[Mr BLBC]

a quick thank you for helping my wife and i over the past few weeks....

i'm typying with one finger after having shoulder surgery 5 days ago...

[Hawk]

MR. BLBC

Welcome aboard.  I have be pretty eagar to see you register.  Also, don't expect too much sympathy for the one finger typing.  I have been typing with one finger for about 25 years.

I do hope the shoulder healing goes well.

Hawk

[Liam]

Mr. BLBC,

Welcome!  You mean its possible to type with 2 fingers.  That reminds me, its almost time for a little toddy  .

Seriously, we are glad you're here

Liam

[Angus]

    Welcome, MrBLBC! So glad to have you on board.

   I hope the shoulder heals up in a timely manner.

   Don't worry about one finger typing... I have heard from a reliable source that Hawk, Christine and Liam do not have secret software to check our typing speed  

   Truly.... warm welcomes to you.  

[Carlton-King]

Wassup

Have a look at this thread I created, some of it's a little crazy but I think I'm on to something

Read from the bottom upwards

http:  //www.biospecifics.com/forum/readThread.asp?forumID=14&threadID=5038

Cheers


Link deactivated due to profanity and abusive language.  If desired, it may be viewed by copying and pasting and removing the spaces.

[Liam]

Welcome to our forum.  Your discussion regarding prostate disease and other factors correlating with Peyronies Disease has been discussed here as well (minus the profanity and juvenile behavior).  I am sure you will enjoy posting your good ideas directly here in the future.  They will get the respect they deserve.

Liam

[Mr BLBC]

   Welcome, MrBLBC! So glad to have you on board.

   I hope the shoulder heals up in a timely manner.

   Don't worry about one finger typing... I have heard from a reliable source that Hawk, Christine and Liam do not have secret software to check our typing speed  

   Truly.... warm welcomes to you.

Hawk, Liam and Angus,

Thanks for the warm welcome.....J

I know that you've met the wife, some more than others because she very active on the ladies board......

It's not just about us guys, our partners, wifes, mates,etc  deserve more.....

This is going to be an interesting journey, to be successful requires 100% from both parties.......

Maybe a topic subject.....

"What do you do to involve your other half in your health dilemma......."

Also wanted to let you all know that I told all my family including my mum.....

The more support the better.......

Mr.BLBC

[Tim468]

Wow Mr BLBC - good work! You are so correct - getting support is a key factor to improving.

To "Carlton", I read most of the thread that you linked (the swearing does not faze me BTW), and I think that you will find here a less inflammatory and reactionary crowd, that is supportive, listens, but is also critical in their ability to think and will share alternative views with you.

Reading phrases like: "Please note that Peyronies Disease cannot happen at women nor at boys before puberty. Conclusion: it has soething to do with production of masculine hormones" reminds me of how simplistic some folks thinking is about physiology. Women do not get Peyronies Disease because it is a disorder of the penis. Boys do not "get" Peyronies Disease because they are not yet sexual beings, and so their penises may bend, but it is not seen (if at all) as a "problem". I personally have no doubt that some young boys deveop a penile angulation due to trauma, and it may in fact be seen as "just the way things are - I was born that way" when they start to get erections that mean something to them at age 11-13 or whenever.

I was young when my Peyronies Disease started (19-20), but the majority of men get it in their 5th or greater decade of life. That strongly suggests either a disease associated with aging, or with some sort of encoded cell senescence problem (specifically, the problem may be with cellular apoptosis (programmed cell death) during repair of microtrauma, allowing uncontrolled inflammatory processes to lead to progressive disease).

Although you are correct in making the correlation between stress (or the human mind in general) and illness, I think that your comments in the referenced thread are over-simplifying the physiology. It is not a black and white situation. The fact that we cannot always find a "cause" for a case of Peyronies Disease, does not mean we conjured it up. I would not begin to speculate on the role that your mind might play in your illness - I can only speak for myself. I can say that my emotional response to developing Peyronies Disease at a young age was one of panic, terror, sadness and lots of other feelings. I know that I did not "do well" with the development of Peyronies Disease. I also know that I am now a much more wise and centered man of 51 years, and I am not living in terror or panic.

But I still have Peyronies Disease.

My point is that there is a double-edged sword to making the mind-body connection the sole cause of anything. That is that one begins to blame the person for having their own illness. Frankly, telling any patient that IBS is "all in their mind" is a load of crap. But it would be true to say that it is a chronic condition that can be healed by attending to spiritual and mental health, and modifications to the diet, for many patients. But imagine how a person might feel if he or she is told that their medical problem is from their mind - it makes it their "fault". And dealing with any illness is hard enough without carrying the false impression that you somehow brought it on yourself.

Because usually, we didn't bring Peyronies Disease on ourselves - it just happened.

Finally, you have stated several times very strong feelings about the "corrupt medical establishment" - I have no idea what you mean by that, or what direct personal experiences have led you to that conclusion. But just like most doctors I know who "hate attorneys" because they are all sharks and corrupt and etc, guess who they call when they get arrested for soliciting a prostitute, or cheating on their taxes? A lawyer. And those same attorneys, who think all doctors are philandering, tax-cheating quacks (remember which doctors they get to see in the course of the daily work!)? Well guess who they call for when they have a heart attack?

Many people I have spoken to over the years have voiced a fierce disapproval of the medical establishment, but expressed great satisfaction and happiness with their own personal doctor (who is seen as "different"). My indirect experience from listening here is that many urologists are good guys, and do a pretty good job, but are either simply unaware of how, or unable to, care for Peyronies Disease. I personally went to a urologist when I was about 20, and after squeezing my penis a few times, he announced that I cuold "probably" have intercourse, if I used "lots of lubricant", and wrote me a prescription for POTABA, which I filled and took home - an enormous jar of pills I was supposed to gulp down several times a day. I never went back. I haven;t seen a urologist since - though I am going to see one soon, since I think I now need more help.

BTW, I am a doctor too. But I am one of the "good ones"  

Tim

[Steve]

Tim,

Thank you for your calm response to the thread on biospecifics.  I too read the entire thread, and while not shocked with the language, I find it unnecessary.  This forum is a much more comfortable place for us all to discuss our ideas, treatments, and feelings in a civilized place.  I was tempted to respond to the thread with some comments that, when I thought about it, might have been seen as an attack on the Carlton-King's position, so I didn't reply.  Your reply is much more balanced and in keeping with this forum's "flavor".  Thanks.

Steve

ps.  I've always thought that the medical 'establishment' is doing a good job...it's just that our human ailments are not an exact science--it's not "If your symptoms are A than take medicine B and you'll be cured".

[Liam]

Tim,

You are a great doctor.  We need to set up a "Hall of Fame" and put that post in it.

[Mr BLBC]

Wow Mr BLBC - good work! You are so correct - getting support is a key factor to improving.


Thanks Tim.....

I also have great relationship with my doctors and pyshical therapist, it's cool that I can talk openly with people who truly want to help.....

Both of the guys that I told, my best buds, basically stuck their fingers in their ears chanting "Too much information, too much information, too much information".....

Then it got kinda silent and we carried on fishing........

Mr BLBC

[Caring]

Mr BLBC

I applaud you for telling your friends and family. I can picture your friends with their fingers in ears...TMI TMI.  Of course they didn't want to hear it. It runs too close to home, something may happen to them, someday, or it may already have- but they can't tell anyone. Who wants to know  about .....Peyronies Disease..............shhhhh.

Who knows where your openness may lead.

For me, being a woman, it was very difficult to talk about Peyronies Disease to anyone. However, I can sort of relate to your experience.
I have a very close friend who has complained of the lack of affection in her marriage and physical changes in her husband,  so I did what any responsible Peyronies Disease involved person would do, talked to her about it and then drug her rear to a Peyronies Disease meeting. When we left, she asked how in the world I knew about this (Peyronies Disease), so I told her. I got the TMI- TMI too. But, in the long run, she now understands the disease and has a new understanding of what her her husband has silently been going through. No, he has never seen a URO and to this day, 3 yrs later, he still does not know she went with me to that meeting.  He would never admit, even to her that he has any problem.
Occasionally I get a  phone call, wanting more  information, and just the other day, she said that she may have talked him into finally seeing a Dr. For this macho, redneck man, that is a huge step. Fortunately, he is going to make an appt. with the Dr. we heard speak.
I tell you this so you can see an example of what your willingness to open up to others about Peyronies Disease can have. One day, someone may come to you and ask for help, and you will know exactly where to send them.
Helping others while helping ourselves.
Fantastic!!!!!

[Blink]

Caring, that is a great saying. I'm gonna steal it, with your permission. I believe that it would be a good slogan for some of our advocacy literature. BTW, what part of the country are you from? Do they have weekly peyronies meetings? Thanks for being here. I don't know how the other guys feel, but having you ladies aboard sure makes things easier to handle. I think it's very important for us guys to know what you ladies are feeling. This should help men realize that they should be talking to their girls about this disease. There is no need for them to go through this alone. Thanks again! Keep the Faith...Blink

[Carlton-King]

- Yeah, sorry about the swearing in that forum but that's the way things are sometimes, I warned you that it was a little crazy!

- I stand by my comment that the medical establishment is, as a whole, highly corrupt and money-oriented. This is based on the experiences of myself and many, many others. Most western medicine is only concerned with treating the symptoms, and of course if they weren't like that then it would mean much less money for the pharmaceuticals, only a fool would think that the main concern of the "health" industry is health. Of course this isn't the fault of the doctors, they largely just regurgitate what's taught to them at med school or whatever.  But many of them are very condescending and hate it when you start to question their views. Mention candida and you'll probably get some crap about how it only occurs with people who have AIDs, or mention something like leaky gut and you'll be lucky to get much more than a blank stare! I could go into much more but it'd take too long, check out some of this stuff if you can.

http://www.thedoctorwithin.com/index_fr.php?page=articles/articleindex.php

- About the mindbody stuff, yeah I know that it could be construed as blaming the patient, sometimes justifiably so, but that isn't what I meant at all (read again if necessary). You say you still have Peyronie's disease, what do you mean by this?
You still have the curve? That isn't so much of a problem for me, but the other stuff that goes with it (poor erections, painful veins, poor urine stream, prostatitis) and even other stuff such as poor digestion/allergies/chemical sensitivty and probably much more that I can't think of right now, I believe it's all related to a greater imbalance and that it can be cured by taking care of the body with proper nutrition, exercise, right mentality etc. I'm not even sure if I have traditional "Peyronies Disease", I can't recall an injury, don't really have any lumps/ plaque, the curve isn't THAT bad (about 27 degrees). I don't think any one case is the same though, there are many variables to consider for sure, but I believe that the body can nearly always heal itself from almost anything with the right care and attention.

[Tim468]

>>You say you still have Peyronie's disease, what do you mean by this?<<

Um, that I still have Peyronies Disease thirty years later?

My point was that my attitudes have changed. I would venture a guess, in all modesty, that I know more about health and wellness than the average doctor, the average man in the street, and even you. But that knowledge, and the attendant changes in behavior that might have led to spontaneous healing, still did not make my Peyronies Disease better. That was the point I was making.

>> ... the other stuff that goes with it (poor erections, painful veins, poor urine stream, prostatitis) and even other stuff such as poor digestion/allergies/chemical sensitivty and probably much more that I can't think of right now<<

My point, really, to you was to consider that your take on this is a point of view, and it may be incorrect. I know that you may feel that you have it figured out, but IMHO, you don't. And the fact that a doctor may be inadequate to the task of figuring it out, and do no better a job than you can do, still doesn't make you right.

What you do not seem to have is a lot of data about your health. You have some historical facts (no obvious history of trauma, for instance) but do you know if you ever had a cytomegalovirus (CMV) infection? CMV may affect Peyronies Disease, and be a local, chronically resident trigger that is set off by other circulating humoral factors. Do you have perfect gum health? That may keep your immune system ramped up and a lot of circulating inflammatory mediators elevated. Do you know if your fibrinogen levels are elevated? Do you know if your Thromboxane A2 or leukotriene levels are turned up?

My point is that a careful reading of the literature TELLS us that Peyronies Disease is caused by, or associated with many different causes. Until the day arrives that we start to know what those causes are, or what their common pathways are, and what their final steps are, we will not be able to really diagnose, treat or even understand this disorder.

So you may feel quite confident in your assumptions, but they are just that - assumptions. Since I cannot find enough guidance in the medical literature to guide me or even create a suitable diagnostic plan, I have chosen instead to try empiric medical therapy, trying different remedies to see what helps the most. The approach that has helped me the most over the years has been a "use it or lose it" approach, but trying to have a lot of sex can have its' downside too - believe me.

>> I believe it's all related to a greater imbalance and that it can be cured by taking care of the body with proper nutrition, exercise, right mentality etc. I'm not even sure if I have traditional "Peyronies Disease", I can't recall an injury, don't really have any lumps/ plaque, the curve isn't THAT bad (about 27 degrees). I don't think any one case is the same though, there are many variables to consider for sure, but I believe that the body can nearly always heal itself from almost anything with the right care and attention. <<

I disagree with you about the "medical establishment". I feel that how we care for people is not optimal and that the system of caring is broken, but that the surge in understanding of pathophysiology is directly related to the good scientific work going on in medical centers around the world. So we disagree. ::shrug::

Tim

[Liam]

Caring,

Its hard to get most of us men to go to the doctor for a cold or allergies much less something like Peyronies Disease.  I can say that CZ I are one  .

Liam

[Liam]

I have heard of natural remedies that will cure Peyronie's.  But, I've never heard of anyone who has actually been cured.

I believe eating right will probably help you live longer and feel better (than eating bad stuff).  I totally support the idea of a healthy lifestyle.  I am just doubtful it will help Peyronies Disease.  I wish it would!  But, I need to see evidence, not speculation.

As far as a wholesale condemnation of the medical profession, I agree there are problems that need to be addressed.  However, I would, by far, prefer to be treated in the US than any other country.  Doctors saved my life and millions of lives every day.

I also do not dismiss alternative treatments (obviously, because I use some) just because of the huge number of quacks and charlatans in the field.

Each person or each treatment should be judged on its own merits based on provable fact.  

Good "healthy" discussion.    Its always good to challenge beliefs and to have your beliefs challenged.  

[Hawk]

Rico,

Below are a few quotes lifted from your post.  I want to share one member's opinion.

But I do believe also in the body and if you give it a chance, it can heal itself.

There are many drugs that work that never make it to the market place because there is no profit in them.

I know for a fact that if someone eats proper and has his weight under control and exercises, and had no other ED problems, his erections will be stronger. And his body will heal better and adapt to any type of regimen, such as VED ec...

Mind, Body and Spirit!!

I have an entire shelf of books on optimal health, preventing and treating cancer with natural medicine, biomarkers, strength training, and more.  I think everyone agrees that caring for your whole body has benefits.  Depression, mood, optimism, attitude can all be impacted in some degree with general health.  General health can be impacted by many "whole body approaches" to a healthy life style.  We also probably all agree a body can heal itself.  We all have healed bones and scars to prove it.  We have all experienced reversal of colds and flue.  So, who could possibly argue with taking a healthy "whole body approach"?  I think the answer is "no one".

What makes me shrug much of this off as being an over emphasis, is that many of us had healthy whole-body approaches when we developed Peyronies Disease.  Those principle while good, have great limitations. Many health guru's drop dead at an early age, get cancer, and need surgery.  They require antibiotics, inoculations, and diagnostic testing.  Some diseases in fact are the results of an over active or misdirected immune systems working over-time trying to repair what ain't broke!  There are suggestions that Peyronies Disease may fall into that category.  My point is that absent modern medicine; appendicitis, broken bones, infections, and other diseases killed people like flies.  Whole-body health approaches would have done little to slow that.  Of course be healthy, but don't expect a generally healthy life style to fix Peyronies Disease.  Not much more can be said about "whole-body health" than this motto, "Be healthy, feel good, and then find something that will actually help your Peyronies Disease".  A general healthy life style will very likely do nothing to reduce a curve any more than it will make an old appendectomy scar go away.  

I also have read lists of drugs that cost 2 cents to make and are sold for $8.00 or more with the suggestion something should be done.  I know however that the cost of a drug is not the ingredients, it is the research equipment, and personnel to develop, test, and market.  So, I do not think there are many drugs that work but that just never go to market.  Once it is known that a drug effectively and safety works, the millions of dollars in research has aqlready been spent. Selling the drug is the gravy.  I think there are many drugs that have never been researched and developed that probably would work if there were a known market for a company to recoup their costs.  With Peyronies Disease, that is in large partl our fault, not the fault of the system.    We can all ask ourselves, how many people even know I have Peyronies Disease.  For the same reasons, the drug companies also don't know we have Peyronies Disease.

Our war cry should be, "Be healthy, then use that health to jog to the nearest pharmaceutical company and promote research on something targeted specifically at the problem".  Go to your doctor and offer your name and number to be given to other Peyronies Disease patients.  We have waited for holistic approaches to find a consistent treatment for Peyronies Disease for hundreds of years just like we have waited on conventional medicine. Both have hit us in the pocketbook.  Even the ones targeted at the penis have not consistently delivered.  Those aimed at the whole body have never been credited with one improvement in any study or on any forum I have visited.

[Hawk]

Rico,

That post made me feel bad.  I feel put in my place by a very good post from a very good guy.  It had gut level passion, some great lines, and a great philosophy.

I am glad we had this exchange to clarify your philosophy that goes with your regimen.  It gives me a much better understanding of the what and why behind your chosen course. You truly do not and will not have yourself to blame for not doing your best, and that in itself makes all the difference.

Good luck, and best regards my friend.  

[Blink]

That was a good eye opener for all of us. I remember some years back I was having a problem with anxiety attacks. I tried using subliminal message tapes to help with my condition. Do I believe that those tapes work? I really don't know for sure, but just using the tapes brought my attention to my problem, and over time it went away. If I sat back and did nothing, I would get nothing in return. At least by doing something, it kept me from getting depressed. Just like right now. Do I believe that all of the things we are trying work? Not really, but it is keeping me busy, and giving me hope. None of the natural stuff will hurt me (if used properly) as a matter of fact, I feel better physically because of diet and the supplements I take. Attitude is key in all conditions of the body. Is your glass half full or half empty? Mine is running over! This disease allowed me to dig deep inside myself and face fears that I didn't even know existed. Am I glad I have this affliction? No. Am I glad for where it has taken me? YES! I would not have met such a great group of people such as yourselves had it not been for Peyronies Disease.    Keep the Faith...Blink

[Liam]

The last several posts (in context) have left me speechless.  And, that's saying something.  

This is an example of the forum at its best!

Liam