Silymarin - An anti-fibrotic agent

[basebend]

Let me say I know next to nothing in regards to the science of peyronies other than what I've read, but based on my limited understanding I found a couple studies demonstrating an apparent anti-fibrotic effect with silymarin, a supplement made from the extract of milk thistle seeds. I'm not sure if it would be useful in Peyronie's or not, but I thought I would post it here for discussion.

From this study - Alterations of mast cells and TGF-beta... [World J Gastroenterol. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI

Silymarin is a potent antioxidant, antiinflammatory and anti-fibrogenic agent in the liver, which is mediated by alteration of hepatic Kupffer cell function, lipid peroxidation, and collagen production. Especially, in hepatic fibrogenesis, mast cells are expressed in chronic inflammatory conditions, and promote fibroblast growth and stimulate production of the extracellular matrix by hepatic stellate cells.

and from this study - Anti-inflammatory/anti-fibrotic effects of t... [Parasit Vectors. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

Our results point to silymarin as a promising anti-inflammatory and anti-fibrotic agent; it could be introduced as a therapeutic tool with PZQ in the treatment of schistosomal liver fibrosis, but further studies on mechanisms of silymarin and PZQ in chronic liver diseases may shed light on developing therapeutic methods in clinical practice.

The study also mentions TGF-beta, a protein involved in peyronies, and seems to show that it was reduced -

Silymarin caused a partial decrease in worm burden; hepatic tissue egg load, with an increase in percentage of dead eggs; modulation of granuloma size, with significant reduction of hepatic HYP content; tissue expression of MMP-2, TGF-β1; number of mast cells, with conservation of hepatic reduced glutathione (GSH). PZQ produced complete eradication of worms, eggs and alleviated liver inflammation and fibrosis.

Again, I could be totally off base here and I have no idea if this could relate to peyronies related fibrosis. I would like to hear you guys' thoughts.

[UrsusMinor]

Wow, thanks! I took silymarin faithfully every day many years ago because of hepatitis from exposure to industrial chemicals, and it had dramatic effects in reversing my problems. But I never thought of it for Peyronie's...

[james1947]

The articles are talking about experiments with rats (2005) and mice (2012) and not Peyronies related.
So maybe we will have some forum members that would like to be the Guinean pigs for silymarin treatment?
Many of us have done/doing that with other medications, supplements, injections, etc'

James

[UrsusMinor]

Sure! I actually started taking Silymarin again (after many years off it) this morning after reading that post.

As far as I know, it's effects are only beneficial, so the risk is pretty much the same as Ubiquinol or ALCar--i.e. it might be wasting some money!

So, I'll report back if I notice anything.

[skunkworks]

It certainly does seem to tick a few boxes, might have a dig through the research on it.

[UrsusMinor]

I'd never thought of milk thistle with respect to Peyronie's until now, but it makes a lot of sense. After all, Pentox has a powerful effect in preventing/reversing liver problems, probably including fibrosis. (I don't think fibrosis and Silymarin per se has been studied specifically, but given the way it drops liver enzymes, it stands to reason.) I'm kicking myself for not having thought of this.

My personal experience with Silymarin is that there are no side effects even at dosages of more than 1 gram per day of extract. I use the Jarrow 30:1 extract, which is standardized to 80% milk thistle flavinoids. Each capsule is 150 mg, and in the past, when I had liver problems ("Hepatitis Non-A, Non-B, Non-C," as they say these days) I took as many as ten capsules a day without any effects...other than improvement in my liver enzymes and a drop in inflammation. It's sure a heck of a lot easier to handle than Pentox!

[George999]

One thing is for sure.  This stuff is indeed like CoQ10 in the way that it certainly cannot hurt anything (except maybe your pocket of course).  I have never really thought of using it for Peyornie's but these studies provide some food for thought on that angle for sure.  It is indeed a great supplement for general health.

[NeoV]

Will order it

[goodluck]

I think milk thistle is a good idea for anyone taking a prescription medication or who works in a job that exposes them to toxins. Even if only occasionally.  These can all be hard on the liver.  A happy liver makes all other processes happier.

I have been using the Life Extension product.  It looks expensive at first blush but when you seen how much silymarin you get per dollar it is a decent deal.

Silymarin is stocked in ER's to treat mushroom poisoning.  Not a common problem these days but it is still the standard of care for a potentially lethal problem.  

[Steveo]

I found an old bottle of Milk Thistle (silymarin) extract.  I will be taking one capsule (1000mg) per day for the next 90 or so days and will report back if it affects anything.

Personally I don't believe systemic drugs do much for Peyronies, let alone herbal supplements, but I already have the stuff and it'll expire in 6 months so I figured I might as well polish it off.

For science!!  

EDIT:

FYI here are a couple of related studies on Milk Thistle:

http://pubmedcentralcanada.ca/pmcc/articles/PMC3969983/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22087179

Both relate to the substance's effect on liver fibrosis; however, liver fibrosis seems to be at least somewhat related to fibrosis in other parts of the body.

The first study, especially, compares Milk Thistle extract and pentox. They both seem to do the same thing with regard to the liver.  So there might be some carryover to the penis.

[NeoV]

Thanks Steveo, I certainly don't see why not, and milk thistle is a good addition anyhow since most of us put a heavy burden on our livers with all the supplements.

[Jonbinspain]

I use it all the time. It's certainly effective in protecting the liver.

Always check the actual Silymarin content of any product you choose, don't be fooled or confused by amount of content per capsule etc. Silymarin or Actually Silybum is the vital active ingredient. If they don't tell you how much is in their product, the chances are that its not a lot.

What, if any effect it may have on Peyronies, I don't know. That's not why I use it.  

[GuitarHero]

Anybody has better info about Silymarin's effects on estradiol? Wanted to buy a bottle of it once, but then read that it's a strong phytoestrogen, kind of like Soy etc. so didn't wanna risk it, as healthy test levels are mandatory to fight this disease.

Could anyone tell how it is exactly? Would be nice to try.