Peyronies Progression/surgery

[Michel]

Hi there,

this is my first post on this forum. I have Peyronies since 2010. My Penis was first curved to the left. That changed quickly. It is slightly curved upwards now. I have lost 2 cm length, but I gained 1 cm back. It hasn´t changed much in recent years, except for the length (to the positive). My symptoms are mild and I´m very glad about this. I read something on a website that troubled me and I wanted to get your opinion on this. It is written in german, so I used a translator (I was to lazy to translate it myself, but you can understand it though and I changed it here and there a bit):

The growth of a plaque will not come to a standstill. The plaque does not grow further because the disease still exists , but purely mechanical. At the transition zone between solid plaque tissue and elastic cavernous tissue , considerable shear forces at each erection and with every sexual intercourse. That in turn leads to small tears at the edge of plaques or directly in it , which then heal with scarring again. The plaque thus increases piece by piece , like stocking up on a wall, with time. Depending on how these aging processes, it may even cause the direction of the penis curvature to change. It would be a great fallacy to believe that the Peyronie's disease in severity and its symptoms would remain as it stands by now. And it would be to believe an even greater fallacy that the prospects for therapy would be equally well even if you still wait. The facts here are: 1 A Peyronies disease plaque grows throughout life further by the mechanical stress. Curvature and / or constriction and / or shortening will develop further, erectile function will worsen , a venous leak develops , eventually resulting in impotence. 2 Until such a dramatic development of symptoms results , it usually takes many years, but unfortunately, just not always. Depending on the location and size of the original plaques, impotence can also form within a few months or even a few weeks. Unfortunately, no doctor is able to predict this. 3 The larger the plaque , the more difficult its removal because it affects more and more structures. The risk and cost of an operation increase. 4 The larger the plaque , the more restrictions it triggers. If the plaque is too long , it is also through professional therapy no longer possible to restore function fully. The sad conclusion: A patient who believes, due to lack of or incorrect information, he could wait with his therapy, worsens his chance of successful therapy.  

Their operation method is plaque-excision. What do you think? What is your experience? Is there someone who has peyronies for about 10 years or longer and could affirm these things?

Thanks
Michel

[emasculated]

Dear Michel.
I'm also from Germany as you can see and I know all there is to know about this particular clinic.
It is a purely commercial and very evil corporation. They are quacks plain and simple..
The text you cite is pure misinformation created by these people.
They have a whole bunch of busy employees who will surf the (german) internet all day for information on themselves in relation to Peyronies.
They are responsible for the following things:
- they created the german wikipedia page which is therefore also filled with misinformation
- they operate immediately on every patient which is not recommended by any other specialist and charge 20.000 Euro for it.
- their patients become impotent or severely damaged and I've read many sad stories on german forums from desperate patients who had fallen victim to this clinic. Just for these messages to disappear shortly after.
- negative posts by patients are deleted from any german forum because their employees search the web as I said. They then threaten the forum admins with legal action and libel lawsuits if the post is not removed immediately. I know one particular admin from a german IPP website who had to censor his site because of the threats.
- they silence their mutilated patients with the same threat of lawsuits and had them sign a binding contract before the operation took place
- the "doctors" the employ have never been published in any peer reviewed journal and their references are fake (quack doctor is the correct term)
- ...

They are criminals. I can write this here since it is not in German. So unlikely they threaten the admins here with lawsuits..
So in summary: they are criminals and the information is simply bull****.

EDIT: After second thought I recommend you remove the name of the clinic and the link from your post.

[Michel]

Hi emasculated,

I'm also from Germany as you can see and I know all there is to know about this particular clinic.
It seems almost impossible not to know them if you are German.

they created the german wikipedia page which is therefore also filled with misinformation
Do you know this for sure? I have to admit that this thought also came to my mind. The article sounds like it is written by one of them, especially the part about excision, but I´m not sure.

they operate immediately on every patient which is not recommended by any other specialist and charge 20.000 Euro for it
True, but that would be the only sensible thing to do if they are right (if peyronies leads to impotence, if chances of successful therapy declines over time etc.) The question then arises: Are they right? I have no idea. I found contradictory information on the net.

their patients become impotent or severely damaged and I've read many sad stories on german forums from desperate patients who had fallen victim to this clinic. Just for these messages to disappear shortly after.
I guess I know which site you are referring to (netdoctor?). Sadly, the messages were already deleted, so I couldn't read them.

So in summary: they are criminals and the information is simply bull****
Did you have personal contact with this clinic?

EDIT: After second thought I recommend you remove the name of the clinic and the link from your post.
I removed it.

Thanks for your response
Michel

[emasculated]

@Michel: It's just nonsense they made up. There are precise criteria when / if surgery is considered which were posted here some time ago, written by Dr. Levine one of the leading experts (another tipp: forget german doctors in general, they are basically still at the knowledge level of 10 years ago). Surgery is the very last resort when curvature is so severe that intercourse is not possible anymore and it's one and only purpose is to straighten it so much that intercourse is possible again. It shortens the penis, is highly risky with unknown long-term consequences. Furthermore, surgery DOES NOT cure Peyronies Disease. It's one and only purpose is restoration of function. And when / if Peyronie's leads to impotence is not clear and different in each case. What prevents this are PDE 5 inhibitors at a low dose. It is ludicrous to say surgery would prevent impotence (except implants). Surgery has as a significant risk factor ED, especially the grafting procedure.  

[james1947]

Michel

Not very frequently I agree with Emasculated, but in this case I am 100% with him.
Just from reading the translation from the website you provided I can say that they are misleading the Peyronies sufferers.
Also surgery is considered as last resort, not first choice.
The price of Euro 20,000, equivalent to approximately $US 28,000 is also a ripoff.
For a 3 parts implant surgery with modelling for Peyronies, the very best US surgeons with more than 300 surgeries per year are charging between $US 12,000 to $US 20,000.
Check out Dr. Franklin Emmanuel Kuehhas from Austria. He is maybe the best European Peyronies surgeon.
Good you have deleted the link, otherwise I was deleting it in any case.

James

[Bigal]

Eveytime I read about this disease it just seems to get worse. Is there an answer somewhere that is real and honest?

[james1947]

Bigal

Your statement bellow attacks all the forum integrity!!!

Is there an answer somewhere that is real and honest?

Can you explain the reason of this attack?

James

[LWillisjr]

The problem is that there isn't a single answer that works for everyone. Peyronies can manifest itself in so many ways. And many confuse Peyronies with other penile problems. You will find MANY real and honest responses here. There just isn't a single answer that fixes everyone. I think you will find the best collection of ideas and help on this forum.