TCM - Traditional Chinese Medicine

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loganosity

I have not read every post on this forum, not even in this category, but I'm curious if anyone has tried Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM).  It is what I have embarked on and my acupuncturist is more than a little hopeful, she's absolutely confident.  The plaque, she says, is caused by an imbalance in the kidney and liver.  She put me on a bland diet, disallows cold food or drink, disallows alcohol, sold me something to clean out my insides, etc.  Whereas the Western medicine urologist gave me 6 minutes and no hope at all, the TCM practitioner is 100% sure it will go away.  One aspect is already working. I had been peeing 3 or 4 times a night.  After one acupuncture session I'm down to one time.  If the rest goes as well as that... well. let's just say I'm hopeful.

Thoughts?

Skjaldborg

Acupuncture and other treatments will probably not harm or worsen Peyronie's, but they likely won't help either. TCM is not scientific; it is a belief system that is based on the observations and experience of Chinese culture, which has a very long history. Originally, China's knowledge and application of herbal medicine was once the best that was available at the time. Indeed, many plants and herbal concoctions do have medicinal benefits. Now, however, synthetic phamacopoeia and the modern approach to data analysis has far surpassed what TCM can do. TCM is obsolete. It is therefore unlikely to be the miracle cure we wish it would be.

I would think carefully about spending much money on the TCM route. Be cautious too about taking herbal medicines produced in China. China has serious regulatory and quality control problems in its supply chain; even medicines in China have been found to be tainted with heavy metals and long-term users of TCM herbal medicine have gotten liver damage.

If you do receive positive results, please post them here and please also discuss them with a medical doctor. I am skeptical of TCM, but not entirely close minded. My mind could be changed if presented with good data. Good luck.

-Skjald

goodluck

I would ask your TCM practitioner how many clients she has worked with who had Peyronies. ask about the outcomes. If none, then I would ask if her teachers have worked with clients with it before.  Take it from there.

james1947

I am nor a fan of TCM, Holistic and many other non standard medical approaches, but I want to give two examples regarding TCM from my own experience:
* I suffered from the age of 12 with very bad migraines. Nothing really not helped me, even not very strong pain killers and newly developed migraine medications. At the age of 60 I got an advice from our neighbor to drink a certain Chinese tee from Tiens that helped her. The name of the tee is "Jiang Zhi Tea". Drink it twice a day for three month, reduce it to one per day for three months and now I am drinking ones a week (if I don't forget). My migraines gone completely.
* I had kidney stones in both kidneys, the biggest in both 1/2" diameter. Four years ago, again advice from a fried, (not the same one with the migrains) I started taking Citin Citosan and Muncord capsules for 4 months, made ultrasound and they were gone. No stones anymore. Making ultrasound every year and my kidney are still clean.
Tried them for may bladder stones, they not helped. Don't understand why, but not helped.  
I asked in an email from Tiens if they have some herbal medication for Peyronies, the answer was no.
loganosity
I added to your topic title "Traditional Chinese Medicine" because I am sure many forum members (as myself) don't know what "TCM" is and maybe even didn't read your post for this reason

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

loganosity

James, you are not a fan TCM but it's Chinese tea that cured your migraines?  That is ironic. I went to this practitioner because my wife had migraines and they cured her too.  I tend to believe that a medical style that has been around as long as the Chinese has been has something to offer.  Certainly Western medicine has nothing at all to help.  Nothing.  Will report as I get deeper in.    

james1947

I will say again, I am not a fan of TCM.
But yes, the Chinese herbal tee cured my migraines and cleared my two kidneys from stones.
This is the reason I am ready to try them. Unfortunately, as I have stated today, they don't have answers for Peyronies, except some rip-off sites that promising cure for everything.
The point is that not everything has answers in TCM, same as not everything has answers in western/conventional medicine and myself will always start with what I know. Maybe because I am 66+ already.

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

l0fu

Greetings.

I am a CMed student in Hong Kong. In TCM, we categorize Peyronies Disease as 陰莖痰核. (You may want to google it). I am a sufferer from Peyronies Disease too. :( That's why I have the urge to find the solution in TCM. In textbook, an external herbal plaster is used to cure it, called 陽和解凝膏. (google time again). I hardly found a Chinese pharmacy to produce it, as the ingredients were rather scarce. Sadly, it was too expensive for me, a mid 20 undergrad to pay for the medicine. I have no chance to try it but I have faith that it can help!

So, if anyone wants to try it, search it and find a pharmacist to make it. I look forward to the good news from you guys. Feel free to contact me if you have questions. :)
Sorry for the bad English :P

james1947

I0fu

You are saying:
Quote(You may want to google it)
When I google it, I found just Chinese writings, I suppose not too many on the forum will understand.
Is your target is to teach the forum members the Chinese?
If not, please translate what you have found on the Internet that we may understand.

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Skjaldborg

l0fu,

陽和解凝膏的英文翻译应该是 "Yang Harmonizing Plaster."

The English translation for "陽和解凝膏" is probably "Yang Harmonizing Plaster."

这个药的成分是什么?

Do you happen to know what's in this medicine?

-Skjald


UrsusMinor

Those interested in TCM and Peyronie's might like to take a look at this article from the Townsend Letter (which is a respected alternative medicine journal--or at least as respected as an alternative medicine journal can get). The article summarizes, in English, some published Chinese research on various male sexual conditions, and the first is a Peyronie's study with 30 participants:

http://www.townsendletter.com/Dec2004/chinesemed1204.htm

You may believe that this is preposterous or extremely interesting. Personally, I found it amusing (especially the list of ingredients in Nodule Elimination Decoction).

I also enjoyed the statement During this time, patients were forbidden to eat acrid, peppery, sweet, and fatty foods. They were counseled to keep a smooth and easy affect and to keep their sexual activity suitable. No further explanation of "suitable" is given by the Chinese authors of this study.

So, guys--keep it suitable!

l0fu

OMG!!!!!!

The research is what I am looking for! Thank you UrsusMinor!

I am sorry guys. I found it hard to explain TCM theory in English. I will try my best to do so.

Firstly, in 陽和解凝膏, the ingredients are :
川附 Fu Zi (Radix Aconiti Lateralis Praeparata)
桂枝 Gui Zhi (Ramulus Cinnamomi)
大黄 Da Huang (Radix et Rhizoma Rhei)
当归 Dang Gui (Radix Angelicae Sinensis)
肉桂 Rou Gui (Cortex Cinnamomi)
草乌 Cao Wu (Radix aconiti agrestis)
川乌 Chuan Wu (Radix Aconiti Preparata)
地龙 Di Long (Earthworm)
僵蚕 Jiang Can (Bombyx Batryticatus)
赤芍 Chi Shao (Radix Paeoniae Rubra)
白芷 Bai Zhi (Radix Angelicae Dahuricae)
白蔹 Bai Wei (Radix Cynanchi Atrati)
白及 Bai Ji (Rhizoma Bletillae)
川芎 Chuan Xiong (Ligusticum Wallichii)
续断 Xu Duan (Radix Dipsaci)
防风 Fang Feng (Radix Saposhnikoviae)
荆芥 Jing Jie (Herba Schizonepetae)
五灵脂 Wu Ling Zhi (Trogopterus Dung)
木香 Mu Xiang (Radix Aucklandiae)
香橼 Xiang Yuan (Fructus Citri)
陈皮 Chen Pi (Orange peel)
乳香 Ru Xiang (Frankincense)
没药 Mo Yao (Myrrh)
苏合 Su He Xiang (Styrax)
麝香 She Xiang (Moschus)
YEAH... quite a lot.
They are mixed and decocted as a plaster and applied on the site directly.

In TCM theory, the node is a detrimental accumulation of Phlegm at the penis. Phlegm is normally controlled by spleen and liver,(Note that the TCM organs are different from the modern medicine ones.) and is associated with the flow of Qi and blood. Any stagnation of Qi and blood or damaged spleen and liver will brew the phlegm and dampness in the body. Coldness worsens the problem.

The 陽和解凝膏 aims to warm the coldness, drive the Qi and blood, reduce the swelling, and remove phlegm as well.

OKAY, I know this sounds ridiculous to you, and my explanation is making it worse. Visit TCM Wiki (Traditional Chinese Medicine Wiki) for a professional version.

By the way, I will try the treatment stated in the research. It is much cheaper than the 陽和解凝膏, but still I bet it will cost me $2000 HKD for 3 months, a course of treatment.

james1947

Ursus

100% success in a study is very fishy. Smells not good!!!
The silver bullet for Peyronies?
I didn't find also the "study" control group. Maybe I should improve my English to find it.

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

UrsusMinor

You're welcome, I0fu! Let us know what you discover.

James--Yes, 100% is pretty improbable. And there is no control group.

In any case, there may be something to this, or there may not be. It's certainly bound to be more effective than Vitamin E, which seems to be the standard treatment in the US!  ;D