Surgery for Peyronie's Disease

[Liam]

Thank you for posting.  This is good info for the rest of us who may, one day, have this proceedure done.  I hope you get the answer you want.

Liam

[ComeBacKid]

Kiki,

I'm no expert on the peyronies surgeries, but I would say your husbands reaction was not normal.  I would highly advise him to strictly follow what the doctors say about when you can have sex.  If he was in that extreme of pain, he may have tore the stitches or tissues in his penis, as they are delicate and take time to heal solidly. I thought with most surgeries for peyronies they tried to prevent the patients from getting rock hard erections for awhile until all the tissues heal solidly together and what not.  If I were him I'd at least call the doctor or go in and make sure everything is ok, with pain so extreme that it causes one to puke, I don't think this is a good thing.  Hope everything is ok.

ComeBackid

[Tim468]

I think he should notify the doctor (and yes he will be embarrassed about having had sex - but the doctor will have heard it all before). He ay have dmamged some of the repair, and if he did, it is possible it will form scar tissue and leave him worse off than before. Now is the time to get going on a reevaluation.

Tim

[George999]

I want to second Tim and ComeBackid on this.  And let me just pass on an experience.  A few years ago I had a major urological surgery to correct a problem I had lived with for years.  And then, afterwards, I did something extremely stupid and extremely embarressing, much more so than what your husband did.  And I had to bring myself to face not one, but two urologists.  One, my personal urologist, and two the actual surgical specialist who performed the surgery.  Believe me, I was mortified with embarrassment.  I just knew that they would be angry and disgusted with me.  But, amazingly, it didn't even faze them.  They assured me that I wasn't the first one and they made it all very routine.  They just checked to make sure that there was no damage to the area of the surgury and then assured me that everything was OK.    So rest assured, the docs have heard the same story before numerous times, and will only make sure that your husband gets a fresh start as much as possible if that is what he needs, or they may just assure him that everything is OK, and that has a lot of value as well.  In any case they might also be able to suggest ways he can make his recuperation faster and less painful.  If it were me, I would see the doctor in a heartbeat.

[kiki]

Thank you for your comments, they were very helpful.
I passed all of the information on to him.


He opted not to call the doctor- even though I strongly suggested it.  He is going to give it a little more time, and then if it happens again he will contact the doctor.

[SteveW]

...He is going to give it a little more time, and then if it happens again he will contact the doctor.

Men.  Geez we are stubborn creatures.  

[kiki]

The good news today is that he did finally contact the doctor. Although he had to be a bit more candid than he would have preferred, he was assured that everything is O.K. The pain was thought to be just because he had not had sex in a while, and also that he rushed things, according to the Urologist.

My husband's theory is that the swelling after the operation probably constricted the vas deferens or seminal vesicles, and that was the reason for the discomfort. At any rate, we were advised just to wait a little longer and then see what happens - by a doctor, so that is always reassuring.

From a sexual standpoint, I would say the period of abstinence has actually made us appreciate other physical activities more that don't necessarily lead to sex.      

I will post again some time later to let you know how effective the surgery was.   Also, it is covered by most insurance policies. We have Blue Cross Blue Shield, and it was covered with that. It is not considered optional surgery.

Also, he has read in this on line area and commented to me that it was good to connect with other people who are going through the same thing, even though I know it is never going to be in his nature to write anything here.  

[Anthony]

Hi Everyone.  I am new to this forum and new to forums in general.  I am having difficulty so please be patient.  I have the disease and have recently (1.5 months ago) seen "Micheals" doctor, Dr Lue in San Fran.  He put me on pills for about a year he said and I am worried that this is too laid back of a treatment.  I have a 45 degree left bend with a bit of hour glass.  I would like to know more about surgical successes.  I would like to know what Micheal had done and if anyone knows of the progress.  I hope to learn more through you all and look forward to any responses.  I would like to know if there are any chat sites you all know of that are legit and private that I could go too?  Ok, Thanks for reading and I guess I will wait for a reply?

Anthony

[Michael]

Hi Everyone--  Apologies for the long period of silence, but for the last six weeks there really has been nothing to report on other than the wild variations in my psychological state as I waited this out.  I had in my mind the idea that when I was told to wait 8 weeks, all should be well by that time... and as each week went by, I felt more and more that everything was not going to be completely back to normal. I wanted so much to be a success story that I didn't want to let you in on my fears and doubts... but as we all know, if you are going to get on the coaster, you'd better be ready for all the twists, turns, dips and loop-de-loops.

You probably know most of what you would need to about me:  54 yrs old; I woke up one day with a hinge, basically.  I followed the forum for several months before joining it; since it seemed to me that many guys were grasping at straws and doing all kinds of therapies that did not seem to get them anywhere, I just waited for it to stabilize. My wife and I tried now and then to have sex and almost always failed:  I would either be so uncomfortable or so fearful that I would end up with so little erection that even if I could manage an initial penetration, I could not complete the act.  Once stable, I made the decision that if there was any chance surgery could help, I would do it-- because it couldn't be any worse than it was, and I really had no reason to hope it would ever get better on its own.

I posted a couple times just after the surgery, but there was that 8 week waiting period, so I have been keeping a low profile.  I went back to Dr Lue on Friday, (8 weeks plus one day) expecting the worst because nothing has been happening for the last 6 weeks: I have often felt a little blood flow to the area, but have had no real erections, and still have some discomfort as it stretches even a small amount. I was feeling like the surgery must have failed...

I left Dr. Lue's ofice with some hope that it can still get better, with time, because the sonogram showed I am still healing, and my own tissue has not yet replaced the grafts. He wants me to start taking Viagra to get more blood flow to the area, so that as my own tissue grows in it does so with more volume ... but I didn't ask him how often I should take it, or if even I should try to use my penis ... I'll have to email him today for those answers.

A refresher as to my surgery: Dr Lue made an incision from  the top of my scrotum almost to the head of my penis, on the underside, because my bend was upward, and the incision on the opposite side straightens that. He did two grafts of pig intestine on either side of the base, as I had "waisted" about an inch out which made for the hinged, weak spot where the bend occurred. The good news so far: I am perfectly straight now. The bad news so far:  without having had a real raging erection yet it sure looks like I have about half what I started with... and since that wasn't all that much... well, I'm hoping I still have room to grow.

So:  I went to Dr Lue on Friday.  Yesterday I took 50 mg of Viagra... and nothing happened. I had been taking it very sporadically for several years before the Peyronies hit, and a few times after that, and it had always at least jump-started an erection. Yesterday, nothing.  I think I was filled with apprehension, and I did take a small dose... so I went to bed hoping that was the problem, and not that I had ended up impotent.

Then, this morning, I had some pleasant sensation and found I was actually getting erect. I checked it all out carefully, and fearfully, and realized the underside hurt if I pushed on it anywhere along the incision scar. I was very short, and I was maybe 2/3 or 3/4 erect.... but there was enough there to achieve penetration, and after a VERY short time I ejaculated for the first time in so long I can't even remember. Talk about a relief:  I did have some discomfort, and I am still somewhat numb externally along the incision... but I am taking great heart and hope from the experience.  Baby steps... It is NOT all over....

So:  my story is still unfolding.  I have hope, still, even with not a whole lot so far to back it up.  I want very much to be that success story, for my sake, for my wife's sake... and for all of you, because the worst part of this disease is how it whittles away at our self esteem, and our hope, and if my experience helps prove there is hope, it will all certainly have been worth it.

I will keep you posted!

--Michael

ps:  I told you I would share financial info--  I got copied on the billing to my insurance co; UCSF billed this out at just under $15,000... but the only bill I have gotten has been for my $20 office visit co-pays... I know for a fact that what they accept is far less than what they bill, but I don't know if that would help someone with no insurance negotiate.

[Liam]

Thanks Michael!!!!!

[Anthony]

Thanks again for post Michael.  I look forward to more.  I am glad to have found this place.  

[Michael]

Thanks, guys, for the private notes; I wish I had wonderful news; while I don't, at least I am still encouraged by seeing tiny bits of progress.  I have been taking 50 mg of Viagra about three nights a week before bed; I do experience nocturnal erections with it, but they are nothing to write home about. I have not had an erection that I would consider full yet. I have had intercourse with my very understanding wife maybe 4 times in the last month; I experience enough discomfort that it's pretty tenuous, at best.  I did find this last time that using plenty of lube helped a lot...  my penis just cannot take much pressure, still.  I recall that DR. Lue told me originally when we first discussed the grafts that it would take up to 4 months for my own cells to take over the grafting material, so I am patiently waiting another month.  My concern is that the pain that I feel is not in the grafted area; it's just past the end of the incision in the head of my penis. It is likely that the anticipation of this pain is keeping me less than rigid.  My last post I claimed to only have half of what I started with; I'm relieved to say that is no longer the case.  I must be up to about 2/3 or 3/4; if I could get it hard enough it would be enough to play with...  Anyway:  still not giving up; if I was facing a lifetime without it before the surgery, I can take however long this requires, if it only gets back to being useable.  If I have any kind of dramatic improvement, you will be the first (well... the second!) to hear about it.  Otherwise, I'll report back at that 4 month post-op time, and let you know where it stands (or, if it stands :-)) ...

[Steve]

Michael and others who've had an operation:

I was just thinking the other day about surgery, and a question came up that I don't think I've seen addressed...If I get surgery to 'correct' my bend when erect, what happens when I'm flaccid?

Right now, I've got a 70 degree up-bend right behind the glans, but when soft, I'm straight.  If the Nesbitt surgery 'corrects' this by artificially shortening the longer bottom side, will I have a down-turn when soft?

Also, along those same lines, following a Nesbitt procedure, are there lumps/ridges in the corrected area?

I'm on VED treatment now, and so far not getting any noticable results.  If/when I decide that surgery is the way to go, I know that these are questions that I'll ask the Dr.

Thanks for any insights.

Steve

[ComeBacKid]

Thanks for the update man, I was wondering what happened to you?  I was dreading a report of something to the extent that your dick fell off and you were in a deep depression!  GLAD to hear this is not the case, sounds like Dr. Lue did a good job!  I'd be patient with it, I'm sure it does take time to heal, just getting any kind of erections is a good thing I'd say at this point. Keep the faith brother!

ComeBackid

[percival]

Hopeful
Yes I had surgery and it straightened the 90 degree upward bend. However, it was necessary to be circumcised with the procedure I had, and this has led to a decreased sensitivity. Also other plaques both left and right, which were not treated by surgery, have led to shortening. The outcome - 5 years after the op - much decreased libido, and a requirement for a lot of stimulation to get a good erection.
I have used a VED to excercise it on occasions and a useful hint I obtained on this forum is to use shaving foam instead of KY jelly.
Percival

[ComeBacKid]

Percival,

The loss of sensation is very common after circumcision, I've asked a few guys about this and they weren't exactly thrilled.

I'm happy to hear you can still enjoy sex, the thing that concerns me greatly regarding surgery is what if plaques develope afterwards anyway?  Also how much shortening did you have, was it a big loss? Your a brave soul to go under for the surgery, did you have much pain afterwards?

ComeBackid

[percival]

ComeBackid
There are other factors which may have caused some loss of sensation:
1. as the plaque was on top, the nerve bundle had to be lifted for access to it. I was warned that this may give some loss or a change in sensation.
2. I hear that sensation decreases with age - I am 56 - so this may be contributing.
I don't think the shortening was due to the surgery - I had the Lue procedure not the Nesbitt. It is probably due to other plaque at the sides. Say an inch shorter now.
Surgery was not really painful but I used an excellent surgeon here in the UK.
With a 90 degree bend, there were no real options 5 years ago. Now, I would consider the Lariche technique if it could be done from the top, avoiding the nerves.
Although the outcome for me has been fairly good, my advice would be to exhaust all other methods before thinking about surgery.
Percival

[IrishB OCD]

Hey I'm really new to this but I was wondering if someone could help me out.  All your guy's posts here have been an awesome mental help to me, kept me from going insane to know there are other guys out there.  But I had a question and wondered if anyone could help me out.

I'm really young to be here, 19, but I have congenital penile cuvature, so it's always been there.  Which, I guess is a good thing because I don't know anything different.  I was 7.25 in long, but with about a 90 degree curve.  So it was was pretty severe, however I don't know if it's possible to have sex with it because I've never let myself go that far.  I could bend it straight without, and there was never any pain involved, but I had to hold it there so I've broken up with every girlfriend I've had before it came close to her seeing it, because I was too ashamed to let her even see it or have any idea about my condition.  So i got the surgery 5 days ago.  So here is my issue now:

1. How much length can I expect to lose from this?  Everyone always says some but no website I've found is real specific, it's like they think we'll freak out if we know.  The doctor said he didn't have to cut anything out just pulled the skin down to free up some places (which took care of most of it) then did a little bit of plication.  I know its the typical young guy thing to be obsessed with length, and I know that it truly doesn't matter...I'm just afraid that now (if it was successful) I'll finally be straight, but will be totally ashamed of my length.

2. More importantly.  How soon should I start judging my results?  I've been getting the nocturnal and morning erections (holy crap that hurts) plus a few throughout the day...and I hate what I see.  It almost looks like it now still curves to the left, it just makes a second turn back to the right so it ends up facing the same direction....just about an inch to the left of where it started.  Plus now it feels like the skin is stretching so tight that its pulling into a downward bend rather than a lateral bend.  Is it just due to the swelling from the surgery?  And the fact that I have only gotten like a half-erection every time (looks about 2/3 old size) because of the pain?  Does it get better or did I get a botched job?

3. I was uncircumsized before this event and now am circumsized, but it looks like the skin was not attached properly under the head.  theres about a 1/8in to 1/2 in (depending on where aroudn the head your looking at) of red skin that is definatly part of leftover from the head rather than the normal penile skin, and will I always have this obvious part where it changes color next to the head? or will that fade with time?

I'm sorry I know I have a lot of quesitons, but I'm really freaking out right now, and not sure if I really should have had the surgery or not.  If what I'm looking at now is what it's going to look like...I'm not even going to want my wife (some future wife) to ever see this thing...please someone help me.  Thanks.

[Liam]

OCDIrishBoy,

I found this site.  I'm not recommending this guy.  The site just addressed your concerns.  IT HAS PICTURES of before and after.  Here is a quote with a link at the bottom of the page:  

Congenital Curvature
Congenital curvature of the penis upward, downward, or to one side during erection is not uncommon. If the curvature interferes with intercourse or causes psychological distress, correction is performed. The correction is easily performed as an outpatient by shortening the convex (longer) side with sutures. The incision is made through a previous circumcision scar, an incision on the underside of the penis, or a circumcision is performed. Loss of length is usually less than 1 inch. Postoperative pain is mild.

Alternatively, if the curvature is upward or downward, the concave (shorter) side can be lengthened. This more extensive procedure involves releasing the concave side with incisions and filling the gap with a graft of skin (dermis), tissue from a cadaver (pericardium), or vein. This procedure has greater risks and is usually not performed on patients with congenital curvature.

http://www.altermd.com/Penis%20and%20Scrotal%20Surgery/congenital_curvature.htm

BTW,  Are you Irish by country or university?

[IrishB OCD]

Hey thanks a lot man.  That helps to see some real before and after pics and know that it looks great and definately presentable, I just hope my doctor is as good as that guy.

The one other really huge thing that's been bothering me, that that site couldn't answer, is one that I was wondering if someone who has actually gone through the surgery could help me with.  Is how did it look immediately afterwords?  RIght now it's not looking good, and It's really freaking me out.  Anyone who's had the surgery (some scar removal with minor plication) even if it was becasue of acutal peyrnie's rather than congenital curvature (i think this part would be the same).

Is it looking mishapen (when erect) due to the swelling and recent surgery...or was I botched? Please someone help me with this, I'm seriously freaking out.  I can handle if your afraid to say bad news, I'd rather know.  Anyone who could help would be great.

BUt thanks so much for that info Liam, and irish by Heritage, I actually live in Nevade, US hehe.

[Liam]

There is at least one person on here who has had sugery.  He made some good posts.

I would like an opportunity to learn from you.  What was the surgery like?  Was itout-patient.  How long did it take?  DID IT HURT???  Was yor doctor a urologist?  Did your doctor offer any couseling before your decision to have surgery?  What did he say about what the results should be?  Any info would be appreciated by all the members here.

My grandfather is from Wales and my wife is of Irish heritage.  Our honeymoon was in Ireland.  BEAUTIFUL country!!!

[IrishB OCD]

Learn from me?  Sounds exciting I like having power.  Sorry its taken a while to respond but you'll see why.

Well the surgery isn't too bad.  My doctor kept saying that I had a large penis in front of the cute young nurses...so that was pretty freaken sweet.  Lol sorry I'll stop acting...well like a 19 year old.  but as you can see... I'm starting to have a little better outlook on this.

Went in thursday for the surgery all together not too bad.  Woke up and they made me walk around and kicked me out of the recovery room because I was "too awake".  Apparantly I was flirting with all the nurses lol.  But went home not a lot of pain.  For those of you who are uncircumcised this will be easy to explain.  Pull back the skin on your penis and leave it that way.  Then put your jeans on and walk around.  That's about what it feels like.  Pretty much exactly how it feels.  For those of you who are circumcised, imagine the feeling when you scrape or peel of one layer of skin.  How it doesn't hurt all that bad but it kinda stings ya know?  The entire head of yoru penis.  That's about what it feels like (at first)  So not too too bad.

The erections.  Never in my life did I thought I would hate an erection.  And this is where I started to notice my age.  Its not completely unbearable, but it will leave you finding whatever position is best to quickly get rid of it (for me its letting like a kneeling position letting it hang) and most inportanly DON'T TIGHTEN THE MUSCLE! That's the hardest part.  You know the penis muscle?  The one that you tighten to hold in pee, and you can flex to make the penis move a little.  Well just like any other muscle, if you feel pain you tighten it.  but here that will make the erection harder and more painful.  IF you can learn to keep this loose it will pass.  It just wakes you up a few times in the night.  And i noticed my age because remember when you went through puberty and you got random erections at 10 o clock in the morning you couldn't get rid of?  Yah those still happening for me.  Makes spanish class really suck.

The pain of the head goes away rather quickly.  It basically just de-sensitizes the skin so it gets better.  The more baths and walking around naked you can do the better.  Then as the stitches desolve the pain becomes less frequent.  Only when the stitches catch on something like your jeans or boxers which kinda sucks.  But all together the pain really isn't too bad don't let it affect your decision for surgery.

Now the results.  For me were not so good.  This is why I've taken so long to respond.  I kinda went manic depressive for a little bit then now I've seen two seperate doctors regarding the results.  My surgery didn't go so well.  Firstly: I have a pretty sever "twist" in my penis near the base which was one of the maing problems in the first place.  While my doctore said ahead of time that would be easy too fix...he didn't.  So That's still plaging me.

2: Circumcision.  Apparently (by my bad opinion) it appears that he cut the skin on the bottom too short.  So during erections it cannot point up.  I tried to pull it up today and it was extremely painful.  So theres some advice, do not attempt to stretch your penis in a way it doesn't want to go right away (should've bene obviousi guess) the most painful thing of the entire operation so far.  Additionally the skin appears to be a little off (the seam onunderside of penis is a quarter inch left of skin underside of head).

3: Curves fixed incorrectly.  It appears that he missed the curves.  It still curves left, but then curves back to the right.

4: New curves.  I can't tell if it's because of the too short of skin or what but my penis has two new bends it now bends up and then back down for no apparanty reason.  The Urologist said that when you release scar tissue it may reveal other curves (one curve pulling another one straight and he only knew of one to fix).

So that's my problems.  And here's the rest of my story.  I went wednesday for a follow up appointment.  Told him a few of my questions (3 and 4) and he got extremely upset, defensive, and basically kicked me out of the office.  So I was very upset by this obviously, so I went to see my normal doctor today for his opinion.  I know he's not a uroligist, but I trust his opinion, and his personality for how he treats thing (why throw pills at everything when the body will fix it self in the same amount of time).  He said the following:

The curvature issues may be in part due to swelling so we're waiting it out 5-7 weeks to see what happens.  The skin under the penis is a little tight, but penile skin is extremely (for lack of a better word) "stretchy" so it will remain to be unconfortable but will get better as I wait it out, and he thinks that it will be find at the end of the waiting period.  (and if it doesn't get better skin can be grafted or whatever...just that'll leave weird scars.  The circumcision looks ok.  It's not bad its fine, and yah its a little off but that's not causing the curvature (i thought maybe).  The twist, (number 1) didn't really come up today because we're waiting it out (like I said) then we'll see at that point what issues are still issues.

I know this is a ridiculously long post, and a ridiculous amount of information.  But I want my entire story to be out there.  Because I'm gonna keep posting ever few weeks or so.  Because before my surgery I would have given anything to hear someone else's story.

And if your considering surgery, don't let my setbacks upset you.  My doctor said two important things today: A lot of it will get better when the swelling subsides, and we can re-operate if there are still problems.

Oh and my doctor?  His shortness and defensiveness not a description of all uroligists.  My regular doctor and his nurse have worked with him (and ht enurse used him for her husband's vasectomy) and both complained his his shortness.  So its just him.

Hope this is a help to people!

[Tim468]

Dear OCD-I-B,

So far, so.. sort of good. I completely agree with your doctor about waiting to see. Your ability to see that you may not have a "fix", and that you may have to go back and try again is amazing to me. yeah, I know that you are freaked out and scared (who would not be?), but this is a MATURE attitude you are working on developing.to the extent that your regular doctor is able to foster that in you, keep going back to him (in this case he was of help through another manner than throwing pills at you, it seems).

It is too early to say much about the urologist. But - to give you some perspective - I am going to change my health insurance coverage next year so that I can go out of network more easily to get the opinions of a *best* surgeons about Peyronies Disease. You might want to go to one of the best available surgeons for a second opinion. Not aligning the "seam" on the underside of the penis is a basicly dumb thing to do that was or is a sign of something... inattention? if it allstraightens out afterwards - great. If it does not, this theory about correcting one curve revealing another?? No - I cannot accept that as true. We are talking about a deformation of a tube by shortening of parts of it's surface. As a geometry problem it is not complex. An induced erection in the OR should be able to immediately show whether or not the correction has "revealed" another. But the only way that would happen, IMHO, is if your erections were so flawed pre-operatively, that you could not get hard enough to reveal a area of scar/placque. IOW, if you couldn't get hard,then a limitaion to "stretchyness" would not be noticed. But you do not reveal that history.

His defensiveness may be related to his personality, or it could have been related to your attitude or behavior. But his job is to help you as a patient, not to simply cut and sew. So he should be able to hear a concern from a young man and be reassuring. His failure to be able to do that is not reassuring about is abilities as a physician (no matter what he can do in an OR) and if that does not change, move on.

Tim

[Liam]

Irish,

Great job explaining your surgery.  I'm sure it will be of help to many people.  Thanks!!!

Liam

[IrishB OCD]

Thanks Tim for the advice, and Liam for the response.

To answer your question there was some erectile disfunction before the operation (not that hard) however 1. My doctor's first plan was to have me take some viagra, cialis, and levitra and see if that improved it enough to make me happy (and prevent surgery).  And that did help the erectile strength enough that I would have seen 2. Actually due to the pain, it's still not as hard as it was before.  Even though the pain is not unbearable anymore, it still takes a great mental strain to even maintain an erection.  Becuase it's maintaining somethign that I know how to get rid of and is causing me pain so subconsiously (wow that's spelled bad) i want it gone lol.  Thank you for the thought tim.  It got me thinking and helped me to come closer to understanding.

Oh and Liam I never responded to part of your message.  I'm jealous of your trip to Ireland.  I'm trying to plan a backpacking trip with a buddy after I graduate college through Ireland, then hit up Europe too.  But honeymoon in Ireland...that would be cool.

[Michael]

Hi Guys...  We are heading out on a vacation in the morning, so I felt I'd better check in.  Still not much to report, and I'm trying not to let it get to me.  Still doing the Viagra therapy; Dotty and I still give it a go once in a great while... but I still have discomfort enough in erections to make intercourse difficult and not so very satisfying for me.  Bless her heart, Dotty says ANY sex is good enough for her, but I do miss the lover I once was (or at least THOUGHT I was :-)  Anyway, I saw a couple of general questions in some of the posts that I can answer, at least from the perspective of my own experience.  

Soft vs hard appearance:  I looked pretty normal pre-op when soft, though I was very wacked-out when erect-- kinda broken and very angled.  Post op, soft, I'm practically poster-child normal!  Erect, my shape is straight and true...  no over-correction in either form.

Size:  here's the one that I hope gets better, and doesn't scare you off... so far, I don't think I have 2/3 of what I once did, and that was not all that much.  For those of you who have not had the pleasure of having a urologist measure mr. happy, well... it's a real treat.  With standard wooden ruler in one hand, firmly grasp flaccid penis in the other and stretch like you think it's made of rubber and can't possibly break.  When you think it's it's ready to snap off in your hand, jam the wooden ruler painfully into your groin until it hits your pubic bone.  Make quick mental note of how long you are before you faint.... :-)))  This is what Dr Lue did to me pre-op to tell me how long I would be post-op:  I should have a six-inch penis, he exclaimed.  While I have not gotten out my own ruler to replicate that particular measurement, my post-op size sure as hell looks like about a solid 4 inches to me... and that is disappointing.  On the other hand, I have not had what I would consider a raging full erection yet, and Old Man feels like I am a good candidate for VED therapy, which may help restore some of the lost length.  I will be checking that out soon...

So:  my tissue has supposedly replaced my grafting material by now.  I might just need to start being a bit more aggressive to help get over the hump (as it were)...  but I want you to know that when and if I recover more fully, you'll all be the second to know! (yes...  Dotty comes first!!!  :-))

[ComeBacKid]

My prayers go out to you buddy, you dove into an unknown ocean.  You've confirmed my worse fear from surgery, loss of size.  Considering how much size I've lost already I don't think I'd ever opt for surgery.  Perhaps once you get a full heal you will be able to use the VED to stretch the graft tissue out.  4 inches can get the job done, your creativity and effort will be the most important for you.  I'm convinced youll be able to gain more size back, if you can get to 5 inches, you fall in the bottom of the average category, and you can call that a win, especially now since your penis is straight.  I have my fingers crossed for gene therapy for ED in the near future.  Did Dr. Lue confirm your plaque has totally been eliminated? I wish you only the best man in your recovery.

ComeBackid

[IrishB OCD]

Um do you live in AZ?  If so I'll private message you his info, but I don't want to be slandering the guy online outright...yet.

Just thought since I was here I'd give you guys an update of how its going, I just hit the 3 week mark.

The pain in the erections is gone, except one thing.  As I mentioned before the circumcision was not done properly, and one of the problems is that there is not enough skin underneath.  So if I attempt to point it straight up (ie. in jeans when attempting to hide an erection) it's excruciatingly painful and overstretches the skin.  But that is the only pain.  Now that the circumcision has healed and it is off center, and he sewed it overlapped on the right side.  When I showed my usual doc he said that its not good, but under other circumstances wouldn't be bad enough to merit redoing.

As for the actual curvature.  Well its the same shape as it was immediately following the surgery.  It still  curves left, then curves back right farther along the shaft (where he did the plication).  And there is a new bend up and down in the penis that wasn't there before.  (But to be perfectly honest I think that this may be partly do to the fact that the skin is too short?  I mean I'm no expert but if you were to push in on your penis (liek i guess if you were attemptign to make it shorter? perish the thought lol) it will bend unnaturally momentarily responding to the pressure.  So I wonder if the skin is pulling on it?  I'll have the doc look at that possibility)

BUt I have my appointment set with the new Urologist for three days after the 6 week mark (he was out of town so I couldn't get sooner...but I'm not excited to get this over with or anything).  I think I'm going under the knife again lol.

Also, I kind of have decided to do something, but I wanted your guys's opinion (the true experts).  I am going to talk to the doctor about doing the lengthening procedure at the same time.  My length pre-op was 7.25 now it's between 6.5 and 6.75 (it's hard to measure because I have to hold in awkwardly to line it up with the ruler do to that new bends).  I know that is on the high end of average.  However, you really can't understand it unless it happens to you.  You could be 9 inches long, but you would feel small if you used to be 10 and lost an inch to get to 9.  So all I see now is new deformities/bends and small.  And I figure if I do it again then it will be below 6, or even 5.  And I know that is not that small, and perfectly large enough to satisfy a woman.  But all I will see, is that its 2 inches shorter than what I was born with.  SO what do you guys think of that?

But anyway the problems I'm currently experiencing is insurance.  I don't think that they will pay for a second of the same procedure.  So they will now refuse to pay my original Urologist, which means I will be facing a Malpractice lawsuit with the original guy.  And I can't afford that, especially because I'll have to pay for the lengthening procedure (obviously Insurance doesn't pay for that).

But don't worry, life's not all bad, and I'm making enough on my job right now that I should only have to pull like a thousand out of the bank for the second procedure.  I'll let you guys know what else is new after my next appointment!

[Hawk]

ocdirishboy,

You asked for input, I am going to lay it on you!

First and foremost, go only to one of the handful of outstanding penile surgeons in the country and do not let mediocre surgeons take turns on your only penis.  If you cannot travel to one of the best then don't have surgery.  As far as having ligaments cut to give the illusion of longer, don't do it. I don't think a leading penile surgeon would consider performing that surgery on you.  It would only compromise an already compromised penis.  That surgery has many problems on men with a healthy penis.  I have suffered the same sort of loss you have from this disease, and I have said the same thing using the 10 inch example, but do not allow needless obsession over length to throw away what you have.  Fix your distorted reality about length instead of cutting needlessly on your penis.

[ComeBacKid]

Ocdirishboy,

First of all your doctor is right about your circumcision, if they sewed the skin to tight your penis will not be able to expand properly, this means even if you get rid of all the plaque in your penis it will still curve cause of the botched circumcision.  There is a way you can stretch that skin and allow for good penile expanstion, PM me if your interested, it is a time consuming process and can take a year or two, and I would not recomend doing it right after you had a surgery or are getting another one done, you must let everything heal first.

In regards to cutting your ligament to gain length, you don't really gain length, you just get an illusion of length gain.  The only problem with this method is that the suspensatory ligament is what holds your erections in place, without it your penis will be much more unsecure and sex could be extremely difficult.  Imagine an erection that was extremely wobbley and pointed towards the ground, DO NOT DO THIS UNLESS YOUR INSANE!  You will bitterly regret it!

ComeBackid

[IrishB OCD]

 
This describes my reaction to that lol.  Well I guess that kinda bugs me, it ends my plan of ever being the same length again.  However, it does confirm my thoughts about my length, and straightness being totally affected by the bad circumcision.  Additionally, it actually explains partly my doctor's reaction.,  I mean it doesn't excuse the random defensiveness, but he last saw it mid surgery when the skin was detached and not affecting anything.  So it may actually be straight!  And this will probably (my rough estimates by looking at what I have now) return a good amount of the length, cause it looks like at least 1/4 to 1/2 in. could be affect at the end by the too short of skin.

So thanks guys, a lot.  I mean like I said this has kinda ruined my thoughts of regaining all of the length...but that's totally cool because either I find out this way...or I could have found out by getting it done then saying oh crap after words...  So thanks.  And I may not even have to do a whole nother surgery.  I mean without explaining too much, and giving ya'll too vivid of images, the skin is so tight that it bends, but the skin stays straight, kinda like a bow?  The bowstring causes the bow the bend, but the stringstays straight?  KNow what I'm saying.  So that could return a lot of the length and make me not need surgery...thank God.

So this leaves me with another question.

There's a twist near the base, almost as if the two cavernosa or whatever they'll called are not attached properly right there which causes it to fall to the left.  My doctor decided not to tell me this until after the surgery (I liek him less and less as time goes on), but he said that could not be fixed.  However, before the surgery I told him about the twist and he said it was fixable.  Is this fixable?  I mean if I just flex the muscle (which I can only do for so long lol, i may need to work on endurance) really hard itll go straight there, but I mean I guess doesn't everyone fall a little to one said if they're not a porn star lol?  Any thoughts regarding this?

Thanks guys, ya'll rock.

[Liam]

Skin can be stretched.  There are numerous examples of this in medical literature.  Try investigating this.  Include, but don't limit your search to, info only about the penis.

I have some major scarring on my left foot.  After surgery, the skin was very tight.  Now it is fairly relaxed (not very pretty, but it is my stinking foot after all ).  I used Vit. E oil for about 6 months post surgery.

Just thoughts.  Check with a doc you trust before trying anything that seems risky.

Go n'eiri an t-adh leat

Liam  

[IrishB OCD]

Ok I have no idea what the hell just happpened.  I started to get an erection, but I was sitting down in Jeans.  It got caught on my jeans which put pressure on the penis.  Not a whole lot, like barely anything.  But all of a sudden I felt like a snap, and there was imense pain right where the surgeon did the plication suture (sp?).  And theres a little bit of a bruise.  What the hell just happened?  Am I just freaking out or did the suture just like break or something?

I tried to get an erection to see, but I couldn't... I'm hoping that It's just mental because of what happened just now?

someone please respond something asap.

[Tim468]

It sounds like a suture (or scar tissue) where the plication was done gave way. If there is not a new deviation (though you might not be able to tell unless rock hard), then it will prbably be no big deal.

The surgeon would normally use *multiple* small stitches to hold the plication together, and some also place a second wave of stitches as retention sutures for a backup in case of failure. if one such stitch tore out of the tissue into which it was anchored, it would hurt like hell and lead to a small amount of bleeding into the tissue (ie bruising).

Alternatively, if the sutures are absorbable and long gone, a small amount of knitted-together soft tissue may have torn. In either event, there will be pain and some bleeding, but the basic repair should remain intact. I would apply some pressure compresses if you can, and avoid a lot of movement (ie wear jockeys instead of boxers). Let the doc know and it should work out OK.

Tim

[not9inches]

Can anyone tell me if a bend to the right or left is worse than a bend up or down? I have a bend to the left about 30 degress.  

[ComeBacKid]

I think a bend of 30 degrees is better than one of 75 degrees  

This is the attitude you got to take with this disease man or it will eat you up inside and spit you out like a piece of trash.  But as for right to the left, i don't think that really matters.  A bend down can be difficult.  I think a normal erection naturally bends up slightly, I know my did before I had this, just a tad though.  I don't think erections normally bend down though.  How long have you had Peyronies Disease?  Are you trying any new treatments?  Have you considered a VED?

ComeBackid

[hopeful]

What doctor did you use for this???

Hopeful

Um do you live in AZ?  If so I'll private message you his info, but I don't want to be slandering the guy online outright...yet.

Just thought since I was here I'd give you guys an update of how its going, I just hit the 3 week mark.

[IrishB OCD]

Hey Hopeful I'll PM you.

So we're not at 6.5 weeks.  Pretty much healed I guess.  Um earlier when I was freaking out about breaking a suture I think I did but it doesn't appear to have done any damage.  However, it is like poking out the side at the spot and hurts to touch (especially when erect...ie masturbation).  But I called my normal doc the week of and he said not to worry about it until it's healed.

Um so did it fix it.  Like half way.  It definately is less curved but still at least 45+ degrees to the left.  The new bends (up/down) are pretty much gone.  I'm a pretty dramatic grower (you know grower vs. shower lol) and he hat the skin sized to when it is flaccid...and it grows like 4.5 inches when it gets erect so it was jsut the skin pulling on it.  And the penis is still twisted a good amount because he did the circumsision wrong (its off by about a quarter inch when flaccid, a little more when erect).  I hope that's having an effect on the curvature because that seems like it would be easy to fix.  And I've lost .75 inches of length.

I have a doctor's appointment on halloween lol.  With a new Uroligist.  Not to do the surgery right away I just want to talk to some one new and get a second opinion.  And I'm gonna have a conversation with my usual doctor this week regarding what he thinks to do, and to see if there's anyone who's specifically really good in Arizona.  That's abotu it with me.  just thought I'd give you guys an update.

THanks a lot for everything you guys put out here.  I'll write back in a few weeks let you know the low down.

[IrishB OCD]

Haha "so we're at 6.5 weeks". Not the other way around,  I mis typed lol

[IrishB OCD]

Hey I don't know if anyone here remembers but I rupture a suture a ways back after the surgery, and my doctor said not to worry about it.  And well today I was masturbating ( i know to much information sorry) and well to put it as least awkward as possible it was taking a long time to finish so I sped up to really fast and  and when I finished there was a big bump and it was swollen right where the suture had ruptured.  Now it's like 12 hours later and the whole penis is swollen especially right there on the right side.  Is this someting I need to freak out about?

My new uroligist said that he wasn't sure abotu the surgery but he wanted to wait for 2 months for the penis to heal and stop being swollen (ironic).  I don't need to call anyone this week do I?  I don't wanna freak out....but I don't wanna under-react either.

[ComeBacKid]

OCDirishBoy,

I'm no doctor my friend, but this does not sound good, hopefully the swelling will go down.  If its still there tomorrow I'd call your urologist.  You can probably take something for the pain like advil, did your doctor advise you that its ok to be sexually active?  I would restrain from rubbing one out for awhile man, just let it heal totally.  Maybe massage an erection every now and then for good bloodflow, trying to use the least amount of grip as possible, no need to ejaculate.  You have to let everything heal or you will do further damage man.  6.5 weeks is pretty quick to be back and sexually active.  I think the other guy Michael was waiting for months before he was active again.  I believe down the road once everything is FULLY healed a VEd may help you gain a little size back, I've read they are used after enlargment surgeries, sounds like your surgery didn't come out to bad, but you must let the sutures heal and stuff man or you may need ANOTHER surgery!  I think if your whole penis is swollen you need to consult a doctor, I'm not sure I'd say go to the ER, but it could be serious, I'd be overly cautious with this!!!  

ComeBackid

[IrishB OCD]

That's what I was afraid of. The uroligist did say that it was ok to be sexually active (sex even ok not just masturbating) but I go a little fast/hard sometimes when I ...ok yah sorry.  I probably should stop because well I'm young and I don't have a girlfriend and it's probably more than once a day on average.  

I really hope this doesnt jack up the possibility/neccessity of another surgery.  I went yesterday ( i touched on this earlier) and he was afraid of doing another surgery because he thought there would be problems with shortening and sensitivity problems due to all the scar tissue.

Thanks for the advice man I'll take it easy and maybe put some ice on it, if it doesn't get better than I'll be calling someone tomorrow...  

[hopeful]

[Michael- where do you stand today- Nov 8th- as far as curve, size, pain, etc.. do you reccomend surgery?

Hopeful
 

[percival]

Hopeful
I  had surgery 5 years ago which has straightened a 90 degree upward bend (plaque incision and venous graft). Although it was successful in straightening, it has reduced sensitivity. Also it has not prevented further plaque from developing on both the right and left side (not near the incision point though).
I therefore advise anyone to consider surgery as the very last resort.
Now that there are some new treatments being tried, I would wait to see what the results are - particularly the pentox trial. Meanwhile, there are lots of useful suggestions on this site on how you may improve the condition by diet, excercise and lifestyle changes, not to mention taking supplements. I have already had some benefit in overall health (though not yet in Peyronies Disease) from following some of these suggestions.
There is no quick fix (or even a slow one that is guaranteed) but if you work at it, you might get an improvement and in the meantime a new 'cure' might be found. This might be a better option than risking surgery which might not give you the result you had hoped for, and from which there is no going back.
Good luck
Percival

[hopeful]

How long had you had Peyronies Disease before surgery?-And how old were you- I am 58!- Mine is 35% at the tip- Looklike Capt Hook DIck!
Hopeful

Hopeful
I  had surgery 5 years ago which has straightened a 90 degree upward bend (plaque incision and venous graft). Although it was successful in straightening, it has reduced sensitivity. Also it has not prevented further plaque from developing on both the right and left side (not near the incision point though).
I

[percival]

Hopeful
I had Peyronies Disease for 17 years before surgery at the age of 51.
Most of that time the bend of about 30 deg (left) did not interfere with function. However in the 2 years preceding surgery, it bent sharply upwards and lost length.
Regards
Percival

[IrishB OCD]

Hey I just noticed something that I hadn't paid enough attention too ever before.  I have a little (lottle) bit of a twist in my penis.  And with twist and curvature it's about 80 degree curve... but I just tried something for the first time since the surgery.  The twist is really bad, almost a complete 90 degrees (the two halves are right on top of each other), so I twisted it normal, and the penis is almost straight (less than 5-10 degrees).

So can surgery repair a twist in the penis rather than a curve (it should obviously be mentioned that I have congenital curvature rather than actual Peyronie's)?

This is not something I've seen on any website or anywhere else on this site.

[IrishB OCD]

Should mention, it's the entire Penis not like a twist half way up.  I can feel inside of my body that it is twisted there as well.

So can surgery repair a twist in the penis rather than a curve (it should obviously be mentioned that I have congenital curvature rather than actual Peyronie's)?

This is not something I've seen on any website or anywhere else on this site.
[/quote]

[adam24]

Is true that those who have a Nesbit procedure have no problems with erections and sensitivity, but those who also have those grafting procedures will have problems??

[IrishB OCD]

Half true.  Erection problems are not an issue.  Essentially the penis is a little shorter so I've actually noticed that erections are harder.  There is the same amount of blood, but the penis is like an inch shorter so its actually a little harder.

But there is still an issue with sensitivity.  The sensitivity issue is mostly relating to scar tissue which forms due to the surgery.

Additionally there are issues with shortening in a nesbit procedure.  I lost about an inch, but many people lose up to 2 inches.  So both surgeries have a good deal of downsides, so make sure you really need this surgery before you get it.  Good luck!