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Highlights of Causes of Peyronie's Disease
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...grab some scalpels and settle this like doctors
Location: Gulf Coast, AL
Highlights of Causes of Peyronie's Disease
September 13, 2006, 09:31:22 PM
This area contains highlights from the main Peyronies Disease Discussion Forum topic on "Causes of Peyronie's Disease,...". This area contains theories on causes of Peyronies Disease, studies, evidence, and ideas on how you may have developed this disease.
As with all the topics on this newly diagnosed board, these topics are read only highlights copied from the main forum. Go to the main forum to join in the exchange by posting questions and comments there.
"I don't ask why patients lie, I just assume they all do."
Highlights of Causes of Peyronie's Disease
November 30, 2006, 08:01:07 PM
The following is a one-post compilation of highlights from the many posts in the Causes Of Peyronies Disease thread. Individual posts have been copied into this page and no grammar or wording has been changed from the original post. Entire posts have been copied where possible to retain the context of the original post. The posts are entered in chronological order from the top of the page to the bottom, so the oldest posts will be read first and the most recent posts will be read last. This IS a work in progress and will be added to and edited so check back often.
HIGHLIGHTS OF THE CAUSES OF PEYRONIES DISEASE THREAD
Larry H « Reply #19 on: October 06, 2005, 10:01:49 AM » Quote
This is a reply to a request to post a theory I have considered concerning the use of Erectile Dysfunction drugs (Viagra ect.) and the development of Peyronie's.
Let me say first that it's my opinion that Peyronies Disease is triggered by microvascular trauma. However, there are enough reports linking Peyronies Disease to other diseases such as Dupuytren's contracture that a certain percentage of Peyronies Disease patients may have a genetic predisposition for the disease, putting them at higher risk for Peyronies Disease development.
Now in considering the association of Peyronies Disease development to Erectile Dysfunction drugs my thoughts are directed towards older men, say 45 and above. In my case I tried Viagra at age 57, not because I had Erectile Dysfunction as my nocturnal erections were still very strong, but after 33 years of marriage my "on demand" erections were sometimes less than satisfactory. I found that even 1/3 of a 50 mg. tablet gave me a solid youthful lasting erection with very little foreplay. Within one month I developed Peyronies Disease, and I should add that there was no hero sex involved, and no known trauma.
So where is the tie in? We know that as we age tissue becomes less elastic, this of course would include the tunica albuginea. Since many urologists feel that in this age group an unknown and unfelt trauma, that is referred to as micro trauma, may occur in normal intercourse. The theory then is could it be possible that a youthful solid erection, induced by an Erectile Dysfunction drug, stretch the less elastic tunica of older men excessively creating micro lesions, and trigger the aberrant wound healing called Peyronie's Disease? When you combine these very solid erections with normal intercourse the case is even stronger.
Obviously, Peyronies Disease has been around far longer than Erectile Dysfunction drugs, But could this be just one more trigger to start the development of Peyronies Disease? This is just a theory and I admit it's outside the envelope, but the pieces do seem to fit.
It would be interesting to see if any of you fit into the profile of this theory.
Budman « Reply #22 on: December 04, 2005, 03:33:11 PM » Quote
I am 56 years old and five months ago had laser surgery for an enlarged prostrate. This procedure caused me to wear a catheter for seven days during which I had several very painful bladder spasms. These spasms would build up so much pressure in my penis, I would actually spew out blood from around the catheter. After the catheter was removed I was very sore and noticed two purple bruises on either side of my penis. As I recovered from the prostrate procedure I began to notice that my penis seems shorter and leaned to the left. I also felt two hard areas on either side of my penis which were never there before. I went to my Urologist and he diagnosed me as having Peyronies Disease and suggested that I start taking high doses of Vitamin E. The Urologist said he has never heard of Peyronies Disease being caused from the prostrate procedure. I believe I developed the disease from trauma to the blood vessels caused by a bladder spasm while the catheter was in place. Has anyone had a similar experience?
Also, has anyone purchased Dr. William Bodri's download of "How to dissolve Peyronie Plaque Naturally? Is it worth it, does it contain any new information?
Larry H « Reply #24 on: December 05, 2005, 03:53:51 PM » Quote
I have never had a catheter so I don't have personal knowledge of it's use. There have been several urologists that have stated that the placement of a catheter is too far from the tunica to cause the onset of Peyronie's. However, in the several years that I have been researching Peyronies Disease I have noted that quite a few men have posted on various Peyronies Disease forums that their Peyronies Disease appeared after a catheter had been used.
I don't know if there is any connection, but the possibility that there is a connection has been discussed.
Old Man « Reply #25 on: December 05, 2005, 05:41:26 PM » Quote
Note to Budman:
I had a radical prostatectomy in 1995 almost 11 years ago now. Wore a catherter for 31 days without it being removed. As far as I know, there were no ill effects from wearing it so long.
In my counseling work with the American Cancer Society, I have occasion to talk with guys who swear that their Peyronies Disease came as a result of wearing one for a while after surgery.
I presented this question to my personal uro and she asked the entire group of uros that sponsor me. The answers came back that the reason men encounter Peyronies Disease after any uro surgery is that during the operation the penis is held by forceps, clamps and other surgical instruments. The say that is the most likely reason for Peyronies Disease forming. These instruments exert quite a bit of pressure on the penile shaft because I was not entirely put to sleep when the surgeon and OR assistants were putting the things on me.
In addition to prostate surgery, had a three bypass heart one done in 2004 wearing a catheter for about 4 days and had no problem then either.
So the above is only in the " for what it is worth department." Have no clinical proof of the conclusion of my uro group or my personal experience.
Regards, Old Man
Joshua « Reply #42 on: May 13, 2006, 10:30:57 AM » Quote
I have read this very interesting report awhile back and lost it.. I have wanted to share it with you guys and fortunately just found it again..
CHROMOSOMAL INSTABILITY AND LOSS OF P53 FUNCTION IN PEYRONIE'S DISEASE MYOFIBROBLASTS
Shankey T.V., Branch J., Lubrano T., Mulhall J.P.
Department of Urology, Loyola University Medical Center, Maywood, IL, 60153, USA
Peyronie's disease is a focal fibromatosis of the penis of unknown origin. Previous studies have reported karyotypic abnormalities in Peyronie's and in similar fibromatoses.
Objective: This study was undertaken to investigate genetic abnormalities in Peyronie's cell cultures.
Methods: Fibroblast-like cells were cultured from Peyronie's plaque or normal tunical tissue from nine Peyronie's patients. Cells established in tissue culture were characterized by immunofluorescence. Fluorescence in-situ hybridization was performed using centromere specific probes. DNA content and cell cycle analysis was performed using flow cytometry. Qualitative and quantitative expressions of p53 and related cell cycle proteins was measured using Western blot and flow cytometry, respectively.
Results: Low passage cell cultures demonstrated a IF pattern consistent with myofibroblasts (vimentin pos, cytokeratin and desmin neg, with low (20-30%) percentages of smooth muscle actin pos. cells). Low passage cells showed disomy for chromosomes 7,8,12,17,and 18, and monosomy for X and Y by FISH. Within 10 to 15 passages, the majority of cultures (plaque or normal) developed morphologically abnormal cells, with concomitant aneusomy for a number of chromosomes. Low passage (disomic) cells demonstrated low but elevated levels of p53 protein, compared to neonatal foreskin fibroblasts. Tests of p53 function demonstrated no significant increase in p53, mdm-2, p21 or Bak protein levels following 5 Gy irradiation. FISH analysis of these same low passage cells showed no evidence for loss of p53 loci (ratio of p53 loci to chromosome 17 centromere 1:1).
These results suggest a DNA virus may be involved in the development of Peyronie's disease
Lunchbox « Reply #55 on: July 10, 2006, 04:11:03 PM » Quote
I believe that cipro is part of the quinolone family of anti-biotics. I took a 52 day cycle of Levaquin 500mg which is in the same family when my Peyronies Disease first showed appeared. Levaquin and Cipro have been known to cause tendon damage by reducing the elasticity of connective tissues. I think this may have been what happened in my case. But this raises the question of how Peyronies Disease occurs. Is it from the damage, or from the healing process of the damage. About 8 years ago I was having sex with my girlfriend on top. I slipped out and she came crashing back down. The whole left side of my penis was swollen and tender. Two weeks later it was like nothing ever happened. However while in my fourth week of Levaquin I began my Peyronies Disease symptoms. If the healing process was the culprit than surely I would have had a Peyronies Disease episode years ago after a significant injury. Instead I think it could be related to a reduction in the elastic tissue, or an injury that causes normal healthy tissue to hyper expand or rupture. I realize this is not new info, just wanted to share my thoughts.
Liam « Reply #63 on: July 22, 2006, 10:32:02 AM » Quote
There may well be a correlation between medications and Peyronies Disease. It could also be the condition being medicated that is the culprit.
I had prostate cancer. I took no antibiotics. Got Peyronies Disease about 1 month before surgery.
Also read the following excerpt.
Diabetes And Hypertension Are Highly Prevalent In Peyronie's Disease
Written by Gregory A. Broderick, MD
Friday, 14 April 2006
BERKELEY, CA (UroToday.com) - Various comorbidities are expected with Peyronies Disease, such as diabetes, hypertension, dyslipidemia, smoking, and coronary artery disease. A small study on 40 Peyronies Disease patients evaluated a number of demographic variables and analyzed the prevalence of comorbidities.5 This retrospective analysis reported diabetes and hypertension to be highly prevalent in men with Peyronies Disease.
Another clinical study compared the severity of penile deformity and penile blood flow parameters in Peyronies Disease men with diabetes only (n = 59, Group 1) and Peyronies Disease patients without any risk factors (n = 109, Group 2).6 All patients underwent penile duplex Doppler evaluation and were categorized into specific vascular groups using published criteria. Group 1 patients were older and their mean degree of penile curvatures was significantly higher than in Group 2 (45° vs. 30°). The more severe category of curvature (> 60°) was more frequently observed in Group 1 (27% vs. 5%) and, similarly, the rate of Erectile Dysfunction was more common in this group (81% vs. 47%). Group 1 exhibited lower peak systolic cavernosal arterial flow values and documents significantly higher rates of arterial insufficiency and mixed vascular disease. Pain with erection was, however, significantly higher in Group 2 (39% vs. 25%) and the non-vascular etiology was 2-fold more frequent in this group. This analysis suggests that diabetes increases the severity of Peyronies Disease and is associated with a significantly worse vascular status.
Davila HH, Garcia JE, Broderick G, Carrion RE. Demographic characteristics and the prevalence of comorbid conditions in patients with Peyronie's disease. J Sex Med 2005; 2 (Suppl 1):22 (Abstract #28).
Kendirci M, Trost L, Sikka SC, Hellstrom WJG. Diabetes mellitus is a risk factor for increase severity of Peyronie's disease: a comparative clinical study. J Sex Med 2005; 3 (Suppl 1):36-7 (Abstract #72).
Summary of SMSNA Meeting, New York, New York, November 17 - 20, 2005
Author: Wayne J. G. Hellstrom, M.D., F.A.C.S.
Reviewed and Edited: GA Broderick
It's a tough call!
Old Man « Reply #70 on: July 25, 2006, 09:19:17 PM » Quote
From my experiences working with guys on men's health problems, I have discovered that many with a diabetic condition develop Peyronies Disease. Alcohol and diabetes does not mix of course, so there is a conflict with their combination.
Since diabetics usually experience a classic case of Erectile Dysfunction, the lack of normal erections seem to cause atrophy of the penis. Therefore, these guys are more likely to get Peyronies Disease due to the lack of normal as well as nocturnal erections. Have worked with several guys in this category and know firsthand of their problems.
Regards, Old Man
George999 « Reply #82 on: August 11, 2006, 08:13:32 PM » Quote
I really have to wonder about the relationship between stress and peyronies. Chronic and repeated acute stress can result in the brain stimulating the adrenal glands to release some very nasty stuff. Things like epinephrine, aldosterone, and cortisol are involved in the sequential chain of events. Aldosterone, especially, is a major contributor to collagen ending up in all the wrong places. I know that all of this has been brought up before, but I think it merits repeating. The same stress response that contributes to heart disease, stroke and hypertension may well play a part in the development of peyronies.
Rico « Reply #86 on: August 15, 2006, 01:50:15 PM » Quote
Stress, mine also happen when my wife just left me...they say the most stress one can have is relocating like you did.....I don't think stress causes the peyroies, at least in my case...we all get put in the same group with this diesease, and I believe some of us are different, I know mine was cause like a injury, my wife left me, I wasn't sleeping at all, not eating right, one night thought I would have a couple of beers to relax(I hardly ever drink) drank the whole six pack, try to release myself(beating it like a zoo monkey), and woke up, it was a little sore, still stressed out, not sleeping and eating, well my body being totally stress out, I believe didn't heal under a normal situation, I couldn't sleep and that night and I abused myself and for me I have forgiven myself and don't blame my ex....it is what it is, but stress does play a role on wound healing........I really believe we all have to look at our own case, what happen, where is the plaque, who has the same situation, that is why I love this forum, it gives us choices.
When someone has this plaque show up in one spot and then in another, this really makes it seem like a disease to me. But when someone hurts, bends, ect...rough sex or masturbation and the spot that was injured, then it is scar tissue to me and more like a sport injury....that is why I treat mine like one....location of plaque is important also, bilateral or not, All I can say now is THANK GOD FOR THIS FORUM.....
Blink « Reply #90 on: August 28, 2006, 11:38:54 PM » Quote
I can relate to some of the symptoms mentioned that may be a cause of peyronies. It was not until I discovered that I had high blood sugar( borderline diabetes) and higher than normal cholesterol that the onset of peyronies occurred. I also have liver problems brought on by years of alcoholism and prescription drug abuse. I was under a great deal of stress following the death of my daughter. All of these add up to a messed up immune system. I wonder how many of these symptoms other guys have? Keep the Faith...Blink
Scott « Reply #94 on: September 23, 2006, 12:14:52 AM » Quote
The direction this thread is going in the last couple of days is very interesting to me. Is it possible that inflammation is a *symptom* of autoimmune disease, rather than the other way around? Tim pointed out to me that there are probably different pathways to the same disease condition, i.e., Peyronie's; would this then imply that there could be different pathways to a solution? In other words, if the cause originates in an autoimmune disorder in one individual, would his solution to Peyronie's be different than that of another individual whose Peyronie's arises from injury? Or does Peyronie's develop because of an underlying predisposition just waiting for a trigger? Is it possible that other, silent things are going on in one's body, and Peyronie's is the only visible symptom?
Somebody help me with this.
Rico « Reply #95 on: September 23, 2006, 12:52:35 AM » Quote
I think the last three post sum up peyronies, you guys have it....
Now when one is stressed and not completely erect, he is prone to injury or peyronies....my case....inflammation as Mr. Dillion and George stated is the root of all evil in most dieseases....in this case it comes to heal the area, it is a warning to the body....heal the area...but too bad it is on your unit...if it was anywhere else, no big deal, but because it change the elastic ability of your unit to work right...well here I am on Friday typing on this instead of rolling in the hay with some honey:(...
I do believe my self that there are more than one way to skin a cat to speak and this might be the approach with peyronies also....one size does not fit all.... I know how I injured my unit and it is localize to one spot...a classic injury, over 50, whacking when I was stressed out, not fully erect....a classic mistake and I cause a injury, it made a scar, which my tunica in a state that won't let it expand like it should...not much of a curve, bilateral scar....I don't believe I have a autoimmune disorder....I do believe in over all health and that will help me in st recthing the tunica.....but now I would think each of us has to look at his condition and make a plan for it....I guess the two conditions I see that are the most different are the over all attack of the tunica with many plaques and then the one injury....
I know for myself if I had the whole tunica being attack, I would be on a different path that I have chosen, I would be trying to flip the switch back and getting my whole body healthy first, then I would try to reshape my penis....I did take this approach as far as trying to stop my inflammation, which I believe I have done and plaque is dissolving now, but I still have to reshape my unit, or remold the plaque....a two step approach...
George I would be interested in your thoughts on the thacker formula...
Tim468 « Reply #96 on: September 23, 2006, 12:59:21 PM » Quote
At a glance, it seems that a systemic disease (like an autoimmune disorder) cannot be the cause of Peyronies Disease because why would only some parts of the penis be affected? IOW, I would expect that the entire shaft would become involved. This is a conceptual problem that I believe ties up theoreticians in knots unnecessarily.
It is more likely, IMO, that there is a combination of factors that favor the development of Peyronies Disease. There are factors related to aging (it is more common in older men), and this probably has to do with the scavenging pathways called "apoptosis" or programmed cell death. In this model, the cells are initially organized with fibrin and deposition of collagen because of signals of an injury in the local tissue. But the shut off signal never seems to come, and the remodeling back to normal does not happen. As a *concept*, this is invoked for many age related problems, and why one man is predisposed to it more than another is unknown.
In this model though, there is still a root trauma. The concept of "micortrauma" has been invoked to explain why the distribution of the disease is spotty. So if we assume that there are continual problems with microtrauma, and repair, then some of these micro trauma will do badly, and not go into their shut-off phase wherein remodeling back to normal happens; they stay stuck in the more inflammatory model that is involved with recruiting inflammatory cells and leading to scar formation.
In an autoimmune model, we make antibodies to something in the tunica, and the antibody/antigen interaction causes the inflammation. Then the rest of the story should be roughly the same; the processes of inflammation are off and running. In a sense, it doesn't matter what the initial pathway is, but in finding the common final pathways that cause the problem to get worse. But to think about how to prevent it from getting worse - to shut off the supply of inflammation triggers - or to make it go away, then we have to think about those basic mechanisms, and what might target them.
Here is the abstract of one study on autoimmune disease: HLA typing for class I and class II antigens was done in 52 unrelated patients suffering from idiopathic Peyronie's disease. The controversially discussed association with the HLA-B7 cross-reacting group could not be confirmed. Marked deviations of antigen frequencies were observed for HLA-A1, B8, Cw7, DR3 and DQw2 compared to healthy local controls. After correction of p-values, A1 (pc less than 0.05) and DQw2 (pc less than 0.01) remained significant. A possible association of Peyronie's disease with markers of the HLA-A1, B8, Cw7, DR3, DQw2 haplotype, as first described here, would suggest autoimmunological factors in this disorder of otherwise unknown etiopathogenesis.
Given that I have mild DC and mild (but bothersome lately) Peyronies Disease (and pain in my feet that might also be related!), it makes sense to see if anyone wants to gather this data in me. What I might do with the results is another matter - not a clue there.
Csup « Reply #112 on: November 02, 2006, 09:40:28 AM » Quote
Well, it's been 7 weeks since my inguinal hernia surgery, and 6 weeks since I first noticed the sorness and then the lump in my penis near the base. I have not had any sex acts that were rough enough to cause this malady. I saw my surgen today to ask about possible trauma to the penis during the operation (as I was knocked out). He explained how they drape off the area, and that he is very carefull to not involve any of the uro tract organs in a hernia op. He told me that even if he did clamp the penis, this would not cause Peyronies Disease. Who knows, he is the doctor. I think a strongly applied clamp could cause some sort of damage. I know it hurts just thinking about it. LOL. So it remains a mystery as to why this disease came about. Only thing to do now is apply damage control. crs
Old Man « Reply #114 on: November 02, 2006, 10:03:56 AM » Quote
I agree with Hawk's statement. Who knows what can happen by applying any force to the penis. Having had many operations myself, remaining awake during some and observed what happens in an operating room, I know the drill. Some doctors play loud music, some even watched TV during lulls in the surgery and others laughed and talked all through the procedure. I experienced some trauma to my penis during my prostatectomy and the uro surgeon explained it all to me and apologized for what happened, but I still had a bout with Peyronies Disease as a result.
So, bottom line of what I am saying is this, who knows what happened while you were asleep during the operation. As Hawk says, even the smallest microtrauma can and will cause further damage as the body tried to heal itself.
I stongly urge you to seek out one of the best uros you can find that has experience with Peyronies Disease and get an appointment with him ASAP. The wait and see attitude does not cut it in the Peyronies Disease world. Early action is always the best medicine in any situation, especially Peyronies Disease.
Sorry that you are having this problem, but hang in there, you are not alone!
Sincerely, Old Man
Age 71. Peyronies from January 2009
Re: Highlights of Causes of Peyronie's Disease
September 12, 2019, 02:51:46 AM
I tried to find new causes to add to the previous post, but the post is very comprehensive and I found nothing to add.
If some forum members will find something not included in the topic, please send me a PM and I will add to the Highlights.
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum
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