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Liam

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  • ...grab some scalpels and settle this like doctors

This area contains highlights from the main Peyronies Disease Discussion Forum topic on "Psychological Component - Coping with Peyronies Disease,...".  This area contains a discussion covering the spectrum of psychological issues surrounding Peyronies Disease.
As with all the HIGHLIGHTS on the forum, these topics are read only highlights copied from the main board.  Go to the main board to join in the exchange by posting questions and comments.
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Angus

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Highlights of Psychological Component - Coping with Peyronies Disease
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2006, 11:06:01 AM »

The following is a one-post compilation of highlights from the many posts in the Psychological Component- Coping With Peyronies Disease thread. Individual posts have been copied into this page and no grammar or wording has been changed from the original post. Entire posts have been copied where possible to retain the context of the original post. The posts are entered in chronological order from the top of the page to the bottom, so the oldest posts will be read first and the most recent posts will be read last. This IS a work in progress and will be added to and edited so check back often.


            HIGHLIGHTS OF THE PSYCHOLOGICAL COMPONENT THREAD



dcaptain   Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005    3:05 am   

Hey, it's dcaptain. I don't know if what I have is Peyronies Disease, but I definitely have something NOT GOOD going on. I have to admit, it's sucked. Basically, I don't think I remember what it was like before all of this. The only thing that has really kept me going though, is: 1) realizing that it really could be a lot worse. By that, I mean, for example, I was walking home a few weeks ago, and was all depressed over everything that's been going on. I was feeling really sorry for myself, really willing to let myself feel bad. Then literally 10 seconds later, walking down across the block was this other guy, probably in his 30s. I noticed he was talking to himself and gesturing, and then I realized - he has tourette syndrome. He could barely control himself. I have to admit that my heart went out to the guy, because I know how bad it is to feel like I have a problem, but here's this guy, who can probably not even talk to people without showing them his disability. I can't imagine the strength it would need to be able to do that day in and day out. After that, I didn't feel as bad.

2) A sense of humor. Let's face it, life will knock you down with things you don't even see coming. This is part of it. I have no idea how I'm going to deal with it in the future, but I guess I just have to laugh at it for now. It seems to help.

Nothing but the best to everyone out there dealing with Peyronies Disease or anything like it. I wish you well, a million times over.





Herk « Reply #25 on: February 28, 2006, 05:19:42 PM »    Quote

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It's interesting that most men develop Peyronies Disease in their mid-50's, but most of the posts in this psychological component section come from young men. Just an observation, no judgement intended.

Yep, when I developed Peyronies Disease about 9 months ago, I was devastated. My wife of 35 years said it was perfectly ok with her - we just have to patiently adapt to the changes required in our love-making. Somehow that acceptance escaped me and I have spent a lot of time pondering the "new, curly, deformed me".

When I was really feeling badly last week, we had a long talk about it, and followed it with a warm, passionate evening, including trying different positions.

I believe all those who've commented about having a caring partner are right - she probably understands and accepts the new twist on life far better than we ever will. I am grateful to my loving wife for her support and have a much better outlook on my whole life as a result.

Best of luck to everyone as we look for solutions that will really straighten things out for us!

Herk






Totheleft « Reply #26 on: February 28, 2006, 08:58:40 PM »    Quote

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I too am sooo fortunate to have a loving and caring wife who quite frankly doesn't care to much about my bend, "totheleft", hence my online name. She was more concerned that i was more depressed, my sexual appetite diminished, and the fact that she didn't have to fight me off of her. She obviously wants me to get better for my sake, but stated, for whatever reason with my bend totheleft i sometimes hit points i hadn't before........I love my wife







Emersonchief Reply #27 on: March 01, 2006, 09:39:14 AM »    Quote

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A loving, understanding and supporting wife or partner is a real blessing.  Like herk and totheleft my wife seemed to have less of a problem with my Peyronies Disease than I did.  I really think that the psychological effect of the disease is almost as devastating as the physical effects.  After the pain was gone I was still able to have satisfying sex although the erections are not as hard.  And like totheleft it seems that my sexual appetite is not anything like it was before.  My wife said that she did not think she would ever see the day like it is now when she is prodding me to have sex.  I did not think it would ever happen either.

I am just thankful for you guys at this forum because it really helps to hear from others that are in the same boat as you are and I would encourage all of you that are reading and not posting to go ahead and post.  It really helps!







Larry H « Reply #28 on: March 04, 2006, 08:41:58 AM »    Quote

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I don't think there is any single component to this disease as important as a caring and understanding partner. The devastation of the psychological side of the disease cannot be overstated, and it's what the urological community seems to understand the least. To have a caring wife or partner in our fight is an immense resource.






Hawk   « Reply #33 on: March 30, 2006, 10:24:47 AM »

SteveW, I echo Barry's on-target comments.  I moved all those posts here to drive the point home that that is a main reason for this forum and the entire point of this topic.  If this forum is not a place you can unload, then we need to pull the plug.  You have often welcomed and encouraged others.  You are a big contributor to what goes on here.  You have every right to expect that you can say what is on your mind and expect support.

Rzz made a statement below that I agree with: 
Quote
I'm not going to tell you newbies that the day will come when you won't think about your Peyronies Disease. Because I don't believe that day will come. However, I can tell you that with time your Peyronies Disease will not be such a devastating controlling factor as it may be today.

Try to focus on what you can change and not "dwell" on what you can't.  I am not going overboard but the AA creed or prayer that says something to the effect "God help me to change the things i can, accept the things I cannot change, and the wisdom to know the difference"  That is a sound principle for every aspect of life.  At times it just requires us to look up and not look down.  With Peyronies Disease that often means both literally and figuratively.

 





Totheleft Reply #36 on: March 30, 2006, 08:18:08 PM »    Quote

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I am truly glad I found this forum. The previous posts here today are the reason why. We are not alone but this is how this disorder is and plays on our masculine pride, causing depression and anxiety. I am a little more than a year into the my Peyronies Disease, and absolutely nothing has worked. I also have to admit that many times I am torn that I too want to come on line and read on the forum but at the same time you don't want to be reminded of your "bend", "plaque",etc. I am a physician and I too am very frustrated at the minimal information/ research/ and treatment options afforded to the typical urologist. I am not a urologist, but I will also confide that one my best friends and old medical school roommates is a urologist and I have not been able to bring myself to confide in him and ask him for advice. I am thankful for the posts here. Several months  ago, treatments that I thought were ridiculous, or unfounded may add some benefit for some and none for others however those possibilities are brought to us in this forum and I can guarantee you will be getting more bang for your buck with an hour of reading on this forum, than you would at a uro's out of pocket consultation . I believe myself to be an optimist. I am going to keep trying....whatever the approach. I too will be looking into VED's if my current regimen doesn't show promise. You need to keep an open mind. No doubt there will be up and downs, but as an old coach once said it is not the size of the guy in the fight but the size of the fight in the guy....haha.....i know really cliche....... my best to all








Angus   « Reply #41 on: April 04, 2006, 06:33:00 PM »   

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  I agree that a loving wife or partner is a blessing. Peyronies Disease is a couples condition, not just a man's condition or problem, etc. If someone had told me a several years ago that I would soon be married to the smartest, most understanding woman in the world (slightly biased opinion   ) and that we would talk about Peyronies Disease and research it together, I would have told them they were nuts. For me the early stage of Peyronies Disease was hush hush, stay out of the limelight and feed my denial. I finally opened up to a MD friend who referred me to a decent urologist and 1 steroid injection was tried, and years passed with little resolution to the curve. Years later, the day she had some kind words that encouraged me to talk about my Peyronies Disease is a day I shall never forget. A tremendous weight was lifted from me that day... we talked for hours upon the subject. After that, I couldn't say enough about it and how I felt. She would share thoughts, and we would search the web for hours for Peyronies Disease treatments and solutions. I've dealt with Peyronies Disease now for almost 15 years, most of them alone with no one to confide in and it was tough beyond belief in the beginning. You are not alone in this; we may be scattered across the globe, but we have a voice in this forum, and I encourage dialogue with your partner. Solutions are slow to come about, but they are happening.
   And for understanding wives and partners who might be looking over his shoulder and reading this: bless every one of ya.






Englishsyr  « Reply #53 on: July 10, 2006, 11:11:21 PM »    Quote

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my greatest battle with Peyronies Disease is in my mind and my pride i fight this battle every day and so far i am losing but i have found new strength in been here and just reading what you guys have to
say.








Lunchbox   « Reply #55 on: July 11, 2006, 07:23:42 AM »    Quote

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Thanks guys.  I have always been a huge advocate of anti-whining.  But I have been the biggest candy-ass when it comes to this.  My fiance tells me that she doesn't think it looks abnormal at all.  She claims to have been with a guy who had a congenital curve greater than mine (I am at 45 deg).  I guess my biggest problem is the unknown.  If God came to me and said I would have active Peyronies Disease for the rest of my life and by the time I died my penis was going to look like a used piece of bubble gum then I would be okay with it.  Its the speculating, checking it every 5 minutes to see if it's changed, wondering if I just found a new bump or has it always been there.  Thats what drives me crazy.  Like I said in another post.  My Peyronies Disease is better now than it has been in 3 years.  But as soon as I started researching it in depth, the more concerned I became about re-activation.  Maybe I shouldn't read the posts here anymore..... 





Hawk  « Reply #56 on: July 11, 2006, 08:59:31 AM »    Quote

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LB,

A powerful, true statement that has almost been turned into a cliche' is the AA prayer that goes something like:

God grant me the power to change what I can
The strength to accept that which I can not change
And the wisdom to know the difference.

The behavior you are describing could be somewhat obsessive/compulsive.  In the context of the wisdom above, what can you do if you find a little  new lump?  What will you do differently?  All you can do is assess the reasonable things that may help.  When you do, you do them as maintenance.  To me that is ALC, some natural anti-inflammatory, A hot soak, and or some gentle VED use. and if you have Erectile Dysfunction issues L-Arginine,  maybe a 1/2 of a trazodone at bedtime.

If you clearly have an active bout you may try adding Pentox.   Your list may be different, but develop that list and and continue to educate yourself and don't dwell on it.  Ahaaaa you say, but there in lies the problem.  If that is true then you must turn you attention from your penis to fixing your thought processes.

Remember that the biggest problem that needs your attention is not your penis.  Your penis works and is all your fiance' wants it to be.  An imperfect penis will not destroy your relationship or your life.  The psychological aspects of this may.  Make a decent attempt to set time aside to do some positive imaging.  Spend time in open communication with your partner.  If you believe in prayer then apply it.  You will soon know if you have the tools to make the necessary progress.  If you find you need a bit of help, then seek that help as fast as you would chase a new breakthrough cure for Peyronies.  Move your energy from obsessing to finding a GOOD psychologist for some counseling.  It is likely to give you much more of your life back than anything in a urologist's bag of tricks.

Good Luck and keep us posted, not on your penis, but on the real issue.








Angus  « Reply #57 on: July 11, 2006, 03:29:06 PM »   

________________________________________

    Accepting our condition is not easy. Understanding how men are "wired" in this respect is not easy, but can be done.
    I broke a finger playing softball in grade school on my throwing hand; I shrugged it off and didn't say anything to mom nor did I have it looked at and set. To this day, that finger is bent; the last joint points down at about a 30 degree angle. I worried about that finger for a while, then I discovered that even though I hold a pen differently than before, alas, I can still write. I can still throw a ball. I can still function with this hand and even hold a guitar pick and play. I haven't thought about it until a few minutes ago because I discovered long ago that the bent finger wasn't an issue in the big picture because life went on and I could do things with this hand just by changing and adapting the ways to hold things and do things. If I could have applied this quick recognition and acceptance years ago when Peyronies Disease came about I may have been able to skip the years of worry, obsession, fear of rejection and all the associated emotions of Peyronies Disease.
    But we aren't quite wired that way. We all probably know many friends that have broken fingers, toes, arms, legs and so on that have healed with some form of bend or abnormal appearance, yet little if anything is ever mentioned about it because the owner has adapted to it and does not make a mis-shapen appendage an issue. We are wired in such a way that if anything happens to our penis, our symbol of all that is manly, the world stops turning and we will be shunned and ridiculed by some women, because a mans view of himself now with Peyronies Disease represents some horrid Frankenstein or Hunchback of Notre Dame image. This is not the case; we are still whole, we still have the blessings of being able to walk, talk and enjoy life. We are still men in every sense of the word. To my wife, I have two slightly bent appendages now, but they are both seen essentially as non-issues. The need to obsess about either one of them does not exist. This was not the case with me years ago, but with her support these things slowly came to me.
   We are still men; we are whole; we will continue on. Our broken, bent fingers won't stop us from doing things, and neither should Peyronies Disease.
     






Englishsyr  « Reply #60 on: July 11, 2006, 08:18:33 PM »    Quote

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there is no improvement in my body and no light at the end of the tunnel, i tell myself that it can only get better but the deep dark parts of my mind laughs and tells me I'm kidding myself we all fight the dark side..(damn star wars) but my own fight is still losing i hope one day i will win this battle that goes on in my head and over come what has happened to me









SteveW    « Reply #61 on: July 11, 2006, 11:45:02 PM »    Quote

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englishsyr,
Believe me when I say...there can be a lot of things worse than having a crooked dick.  This condition has been the central, overwhelming focus of my life and existence for a year.  Guess what?  I found out quite recently in fact, that I am and have been blessed.  I was and I am loved and that the size/shape/function/appearance of my penis is really, really the least of the challenges, problems and emotional crisis that a man can face.

I am the one who made this paramount in my life.  I did it.  No one else.  Right now, I am trying to heal and repair myself on many, many other levels.  My dick now seems to be a little lower on the list of what is really vital and important. 

Perspective and self awareness, are incredible and empowering. 

If we make up our mind to forge ahead...in love.










Tim468   Reply #63 on: July 12, 2006, 09:27:18 AM »    Quote

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Dear English:

You are not your dick. You are much more than that. Persevering in the face of a distracting illness like Peyronies Disease is tough, but it is not impossible. Sexuality has been (FAR too much) the most important part of my life in many ways. This challenges me at my core and that is as frightening as it gets. So for me this journey is about finding wholeness in myself as a man, and not merely determining my value by the shape of my penis. or even by the ability to have intercourse.

If you want to believe that all that is valuable to you is determined by your penis, you are shortchanging yourself. Our worth is determined by what we choose - completely. Even our sexuality is - I am eternally grateful for having had the opportunity to learn that my mouth and toys could complement my penis in the bed - and I can still use those quite well! I am glad that I have a career that helps me find value in my day to day existence and productivity. I am blessed that I am learning - even now! - to reach out to others for help and support when I feel so alone.

That is the way to get through this - by ending your isolation in your marriage and your life and by talking to your wife and to others about what is happening. That is how to get through this - so why not try it?

Hang in there...  Tim






Zigwyth  « Reply #87 on: July 24, 2006, 12:25:15 PM »    Quote

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Gentleman, I apologize for being away, but have been trying to deal with this psychological component of this cursed "condition" Have been throwing almost everything at it.Supplements, TV, VED, infrared lamp therapy, etc. I finally came to the realization that life must go on. I would like to share some Very good news. Even at 47 yrs of age, I have finally realized that a woman can be pleased and pleasured in so many ways. I sought to read and gain as much knowledge as possible in this area as well as the romance of a new relationship. A lot of men continue to believe that the only way to please a woman is through the penile penetration into her vagina. I am here today to convey that NOTHING could be further from the truth. After yet another divorce, stints in the Emergency room ,a Hernia surgery gone wrong, as well as the emotional distress that this has caused, I have finally gone through the process of healing emotionally,spiritually and physically. I prayed for strength and the wisdom to carry this through and I know it will be a struggle, but I have met the most wonderful woman I only thought was possible in a dream. It's very interesting on how we found each other through the internet. We actually went to school together in High school 30 yrs ago. It seems like I've known her all my life and even possibly in another time if that's possible. From the very first moment I saw her I knew she was the one that I've waited for all my life. We are connecting on such a Deep emotional level that I feel only a small percentage of couples can be blessed with.I wonder who I would be had I not gotten this "condition".It has allowed and forced me to explore a part of me I never knew existed.I now know that if men could just somehow find a way to the realization that there is much more to romance and intimacy with a woman than penile penetration, there woould be alot less divorce and more happiness in this world of ours. I got up the courage to share this with her and was slightly shocked and at the same time relieved to know that she understood with compassion and that she would support me in this endeavor and be there in anyway for me.I am looking forward to the rest of my life with this angel for this is truly my destiny. Alas, I would like to share something as well with you men that has made all the difference in our romance that I feel will continue for all of eternity. Treat your woman with appreciation. Try and achieve that Deep emotional connection with her that so  many man fail at. Let her know on a Daily basis that she is the most Beautiful and sexiest woman in the world to you. And last, Explore all levels of intimacy in the Bedroom with her. I would like to Thank you men, Nay Brothers, for being there in my time of need. Zigwyth out!







Angus   « Reply #122 on: September 07, 2006, 09:58:09 PM »   

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The way men are. The subject of multiple quadzillion internet jokes, cartoons and the front cover subject on countless womens magazines (10 secrets he wish you knew about men, The things he REALLY wants you to do, What he REALLY wants, What he THINKS but will never tell you,, yada yada yada yada.....). The titles literally scream out the dissemination of mens deep, dark hidden secrets, wishes and thoughts! Result: magazine sales in the millions. (FYI to women: the articles are usually way off base and don't represent what lots of us fellas really think).
    Women are much more likely to talk about urological issues, sexuality and related below the belt subjects than men are. Men think about it; women talk about it. I used to wonder why some ladies rooms have the "powder" room just inside the door with sofas and chairs; I think I get it now: they want to chat a bit. I used to wonder why women would go to the restroom in pairs; they wanted to chat a bit. There are no powder rooms in mens rooms because there is nothing to say in there! There are rules... rarely, if ever, will you see two men head to the restroom together unless by pure chance. And while in the restroom, no eye contact is made between men usually; we're in there for one thing and one thing only; ya wanna talk? Step out of the bathroom and we'll talk your leg off! But the bathroom is the inner sanctum, the room of biological functions only. Oh, best friends might make a weather comment or two in there, but little else. Another rule: while standing there, it's eyes front and center, not looking around. Attend to ones business quietly then exit. Plain and simple.
    Women are much more likely to talk about urological issues; you generally won't find men talking about healthy or problem peni, testes, urethras and associated parts. The consensus of some articles I've brushed over lay blame on the fragile male ego. If there is a health problem there is hesitation from many men to go to the doctor. If there is a urological problem (Peyronies Disease, Erectile Dysfunction, etc.) then there is the additional threat of discovering a condition that could attack the patients manliness. I think a lot of us fellas judge our aging with sexuality; if we are still functioning sexually then our aging has maybe stopped or at least slowed down. As nuts as that may sound to some, it's the way a lot of us think. It is an extension of behavior from childhood: Little boy cuts a finger scenario. Women nearby may inspect the injured digit and may suggest a trip to town and stitches to ensure proper healing. Men nearby may suggest cleaning it up and application of a plastic bandage with the final statement "There now... he'll be good as new... it's nothing." Doctor Avoidance 101. Do anything possible to patch up and go on without heading to an MD. If there is any way possible to fix something with a bandage or pill, we'll take that any day over heading to the doctor. We are men: we must provide; must work; must kill beasts and bring them home for dinner; how can I do this if I'm tied up at the doctors office and he or she puts me down a day or two for treatment? Solution: bandage and hydrogen peroxide, end of problem.
    We hear the urologist is our friend; we hear that uros have seen and probed it all; we've heard that there is nothing they haven't seen before, and that ours is just like the thousands they've seen. So be it. We acknowledge that; but we still reserve the right to not want to go   .
    Zillions of years of evolution and male training have us petrified of the thought of talking to our uros, girlfriends, wives and S.O's about Peyronies Disease, Erectile Dysfunction, enlarged prostates and countless other conditions. As a man, all I can say is... we're working on it. We have a message board here for sounding off. Step one: typing our thoughts. Step two: communicate verbally! The guys on this board have paused the fragile male ego destruction process and are active in communication about this incredibly mystifying Peyronies mess. The women on this board are doing exactly what us fellas are learning to do: talking about it and getting it out of the closet. Hats off to all of you here who contribute so much to breaking the ice on this mind numbing disease.
     So for now... men, start talking to your significant other. It won't hurt a bit. And it will heal more than any bandage could.
     And men if you haven't already, get thee to a urologist for an evaluation.
     You'll be in good hands.
     Pun intended.







Caring     « Reply #123 on: September 08, 2006, 08:22:21 PM »    Quote

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Amazing insight Angus.
The only thing you left out is cleaning that cut with spit. That's faster and worked just as well until Mom could get you home for a better fix. You ( boys) always winced  then too, knowing something stronger was about to be unleashed on your person. Some things never change. Mom's, wives, girlfriends... we are always after you for one thing or another. Teehee.







Swimfly     « Reply #124 on: September 08, 2006, 10:27:25 PM »    Quote

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I see women are just as hard to figure out as men! Never understood the reason women go to the restroom in pairs myself..and I'm a female   .

I see peyronies the same way I see any other disease that has an impact on the well bieng of a couples intimate life. Intimacy is a personal connection none of us ever thinks about unless it's being threatened. When something threatens our most personal space, both partners are affected. Clearly, the one with the condition suffers additionally but both suffer together. Sometimes it is hard to separate the two.

Women are not fixers, we're problems solvers. Men are fixers. Men want things to work right when their done..like a car engine. Our idea of solving the problem is to go to one who can fix what's broken. Women know not everything can be solved but can it be better? We sure seek to find out; sometimes going a little too far, becoming a little too anxious. So many emotions merge and being that women are problem solvers I think we try to solve the one that appears the most easily solved...intimacy. Most women want the connection maintained with our men because we love our guys! Emotions will sometimes clash and we need to take a step back to regroup. Thanks for the reminder!

I will be the first to admit women are different. Our lives begin to alter with that first conception. We're programmed to accept change more readily than men are
under most conditions. Not all though. Our body changes earlier and more acutely in life so we adapt and change with it. Men understand this too. Men know very early in life that women change. It's expected although not clearly understood 
We were never given any advanced warning that a man's body might change!
That part got left out of my health classes...or I fell asleep and missed it. It's been one big learning curve (no pun intended) for me at least. Falls under the momma never told me category.

I am learning a lot just by listening to you men discuss the in's and out's of dealing with the effects of having peyronies. Thanks for sharing.  Swimfly








Hawk   « Reply #125 on: September 08, 2006, 11:02:37 PM »    Quote

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I see an issue as I read posts and PM's as well as from decades of personal conversations.  It has been on my mind for several weeks and i just want to toss it out since we are discussing differences in the sexes and how that sometimes manifests with Peyronies Disease.

I an sure women tend more to see intimacy and sex as separate issues, but that line is very blurred, if it even exists for many men.  This is of course a very general statement that does not apply to all.  I have known women that were much more highly sexed than their mate, wanted sex, and were outspoken about it.  No quiet talk and hug in the moonlight was going to fill the demand.

I do think that most men would say that hugging, kissing, or a slow embracing walks  naturally progress to sex.  All our lives men have made it our sole focus to advance these activities to what we see as completion.  In fact, men often see these as more subtle forms of foreplay.  That does not mean men don't enjoy walks or hugs, we do.  However, if a man is at the stage that he cannot bear sex because of physical or psychological pain, then intimacy is naturally avoided because of the instinct to finess those activities to sex.  Part of the age old mating drive includes persuing intimate settings BECAUSE they break down inhibitions to what naturally follows.  If women are not keenly aware of that, you can be sure that men are.  I could compare it to trying to avoid eating, yet going to a restaraunt, laying a napkin over your knee, and reading the menu.  If you are trying to avoid dining, you would avoid the thrings that  precede and naturally conclude with dining.

I think it is an uphill battle to expect intimacy out of a man trying to avoid sex.  Rather, the reasons for avoidance must be addressed, whether those reasons are physical or psychological.

I could say more but it might give the impression that men in general or me specifically have a one track mind.  Since it would take far more typing than I can endure to explain it properly, I will leave it as it is.








Hawk    « Reply #134 on: September 11, 2006, 11:26:34 PM »    Quote

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First to DavidW, thanks for the kind words David.  I think formulating our thoughts to make a post, and exchanging ideas is what helps us work through many of these issues. 

Since avoiding intimacy is usually about avoiding the drive that leads to sex, the question is why do men with Peyronies Disease often avoid that journey.

I am going to try this on open forum and see how it goes.  I tried to keep it acceptable for a general audience.  As I mentioned, men are geared to progress intimacy toward the act of sex.  Intimacy is a subtle form of foreplay.  It is not just a psychological drive but also awakens biological drives.  As a result, a man avoiding sex due to psychological or physical pain is likely to avoid intimacy.  The solution is to understand and deal with the underlying problem.  I want to make it clear that I think these can and should be dealt with and overcome by a couple.  I also believe the first step is clearly understanding the real issues.  It is obvious that a man having very painful erections cannot engage in any psychologically or physically stimulating activity.

First, let me present a male perspective.  This perspective does not represent every male or every situation.  People are far more complex than that, but I think it is common and worth consideration.  A woman may ask a question, that on the surface, seems to be an obvious and fair question.  “OK, so he might not be able to have good old fashioned intercourse as it was.  He has other body parts that work as good as any other man’s.  These body parts of his work  as well as they ever did.  I have desires, why doesn’t he use what he has?  Doesn’t he care?”  The female anatomy being what it is, I suspect that most women have willingly engaged in sex when less than fully into the mood, at least at the onset.  Female equipment really does not require arousal in order to work.  Since a man also has some body parts that work without arousal, then he could do the same for his lady even if he were not fully in to the moment.  Sounds reasonable on the surface, and it sounds like comparing apples to apples.  This simplified view could also make a man appear less caring, less giving, than his female counter part.  One could also conclude he is just too narrow-minded to see the options available.  Lets look closer, making a better comparison that properly frames the issue. 

A male that has functioned flawlessly for decades cannot even comprehend that the system no longer works.  The act is now compromised.  He feels compromised psychologically as a person.  He wrestles as he tries to draw a new,  accurate image of   his own body since his body no longer looks or acts like it belongs to him.  He knows at critical moments during sex, he will call on his body to adjust this way or that and it will fail leaving two people frustrated.  One will be shutdown both physically and mentally.  Often a big part of male sexuality is visual stimulation.  What once was very stimulating, now is about as arousing as looking down and seeing a loop of your intestines hanging out and still trying to stay psychologically aroused.  I can only equate it to a woman who always felt her breasts were one of her greatest sexual assets and one she used to her and her husband's pleasure.  Imagine she found herself with a double mastectomy, and found her breasts replaced with scar tissue.  Think of her as she is then called upon to expose herself flat on her back in the full light of day during sex.  For an accurate comparison, it would have to be a requirement that she had to block out thoughts of grief at loss, concern of spouse, questions of desirability.  To compare further,  her partner would have to focus his foreplay upon her  “flawed” breast area, the very area that made her so aware of her loss.  Amid fighting this flood of negative thoughts, she would have to produce the equivalent to a male erection.  Her visible arousal or lack of it would be the expected objective.

The above scenario would be traumatic and near impossible for any woman until she felt confidence that comes from totally trusting her spouse with this new situation.  Even after she was sure he accepted her and desired and appreciated her as she now is, she would have to come to accept herself.

This is a long post.  This is my best attempt to explain what often goes on.  It is not an exact comparison because men and women are different in more than physical anatomy.  Men and women think and process information differently.  Society treats us differently.  Most women here would not want a female with a penis.  We are attracted to those differences even though they frustrate us at times.

There is much to say about how the process of overcoming takes place.  My purpose in this post is to just have the women that read this, spend a lot of time trying to place themselves in a truly similar scenario.  To have them compare apples to apples.  It involves much more for a man than, “I can’t have intercourse, so why don’t I just do this instead.  Encounters are reminders of loss. Floods of grief, frustration, threaten to push pleasure and arousal aside.  Unlike the above example a man may in fact only have to face his new body in the midst of these encounters.  Acceptance and resolve are difficult to pull off at the same time he is focusing on giving or recieving intimate pleasure.  Higher thought processes and passion are contrary states of mind.  The one pushes the other aside. These issues can be worked through once we grasp the problem.  Just how we do this will have to be the subject of some other post.








 
Tim    « Reply #135 on: September 12, 2006, 09:50:36 AM »    Quote

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Hawk, I think you have hit the nail on the head.

Men are suffering a huge loss with the development of Peyronies Disease. There is a simultaneous gratefulness that your partner says "That doesn't matter to me so much", and a continued sense of disbelief that such a thought could be even true. Your comments on the natural progression of intimacy into intercourse is really true for most men. Even when we do not think that way, we still realize that such is often the case, and want to believe it *could* go that direction. Alternatives are fun when you know that you still have access to the usual way to express sexuality together. When that is gone or damaged, the alternatives serve as painful reminders of what you do not have or can not do.

Hopefully realizing this can help women to support their partners through the initial phases of Peyronies Disease. Setting aside their sex life for a while as they focus on recovery might make more sense. Oddly, I think of women as better able to do this than men - and perhaps for many couples neither of them realize that they actually have that option - to detach just a bit from sexuality while they adjust, discuss, grieve and recover together. Certainly men are just as lost in this regard as women are. While women may not realize the extent to which their husbands are suffering, it is also true that the men may not realize how much they need help with that process.

You have really stimulated a lot in me in terms of thinking about this process. Hopefully in turn we can find ways to help others to deal with this frustrating and painful process, and to come through to a new place.






Angus   « Reply #161 on: September 20, 2006, 01:24:08 PM »   

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     If you have been reading this forum before joining and posting as I suspect many here have done, you must realize that you are not alone. Your fellow members may not be sitting across the room from you or across the street; some of us are half-way around the world from you. But the internet is your connection... you have found a group that listens when you talk and will talk when you listen.
     Your presence here is affirmation that you have acknowledged a physical and psychological wound. This forum is a living, breathing thing that exists for your support. You know you have something going on and that you feel terrible. This forum is your ER... your emergency room; a place you go to stop the bleeding and contain the wound. This is your triage; you have found a place where help can be found.
     There isn't a man or woman on this forum who doesn't know how hard it is to open up and talk about their condition. Even coming to this forum and typing thoughts can be psychologically wrenching. But, this is something that you must do as your first step to getting your balance back. The first couple of times will be difficult, but talk until you're blue in the face. No one will object if your post is a single line or a multi-paragraph dissertation! If you have no one near you to talk to in person just yet, type out what you feel here. You have quite a large group of listening ears here.
      This is also a good time to keep things like alcohol or drug consumption, over-eating, under-eating and other destructive things to a minimum or eliminate them. We are here to help and we will, but these are things that you must do right away as an individual. You need all your thought processing skills to be sharp right now... binging on booze or anything like that knocks rationality down quickly. Plus it makes it very hard to find your car keys!
      You can start to calm down now. You've found your first source of help. You've made it to the emergency room (this forum) and you're getting stable. The healing will follow. We, the forum members, aren't going anywhere... we'll be here to listen to you. We've been down this road and we speak from experience and we know a thing or two about how to begin the road to healing.
      So when you have a burning question or thought about Peyronies Disease and its effects, start typing and talking here no matter how trivial you think the subject is.
      Congratulations! You have landed in the Safety Net and we've gotcha!







Hawk    « Reply #186 on: October 26, 2006, 09:19:09 AM »    Quote

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I am not sure how many members regularly surf our website for updates, but Tim wrote a great article on Peyronies Disease, Sexuality, & Intimacy that has been added to our site.  I suggest that everyone read read it.

It links off of several pages including the home page, News, and the Disease page as well as our site map, but here is a direct link.

https://peyroniessociety.info/index.php/intimacy-sexuality-and-peyronies-disease/






Hawk     « Reply #189 on: November 03, 2006, 07:57:48 PM »    Quote

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I sent a PM to ocdirishboy because I wanted to avoid a religious post from my one point of view that may spark controversy.  Our rules indicate that such remarks should be limited and confined to this topic or the "Off Topic" area.  After sending the PM I decided that maybe I should post a modified version here.  This version is a bit scrubbed of specific doctrine but still delivers the concept I wanted to share.  If any find this controversial just send me a PM and I will delete it without ever indicating who may have had  an issue with it.  If it sparks a discussion of controversy on religion or doctrine, I will delete this post and any posts that address this post.  I consider this post pushing the edge of the line if not over the line and I acknowledge that it may be a mistake.  I guess the verdict will be by determined by the reaction of the members.   

A few thoughts on your post.

I am a slow typist and in the midst of a few family situations that need my time so I will be blunt and direct to save time.

You express a feeling of total abandonment and a loss of a sense of value for life because of your problems.  This expresses a total misunderstanding of faith and God's plan.  Bad things do not just happen to Godless people who do not pray.  What faith would it take to believe, if religious people were the only ones not being blown to bits on the battle field, rotting away from cancer, or getting raped?  The scriptures teach us by example.  The example is that even when we do what is good, trials abound.  The example is to do what is right in the midst of trials, to find peace in a closer relationship with God, to be a follower even when life is not running smoothly.  Are we more special than the apostle Paul who was stoned, and beaten within an inch of his life many times while preaching.  He was shipwrecked 3 times and floated at sea for days on one occasion, and was finally executed.  John the baptist who Christ said was the most worthy of men, was beheaded.  According to tradition, when the apostle Peter was crucified he asked to be hung upside down because he felt unworthy to die in the same manner as his Saviour.  He did not get mad at God for not saving him from adversity.  One can not have a passing acquaintance with scripture and not see that there has never been a hint of promise that the Godly would have an easy life.

We came here for trials, to prove our faithfulness amid trials, to serve others as Christ did, to show our love of God and gratitude for all that is good and right in our lives not to obsess over the part that is not perfect.  God did not send a penis to earth and say " go forth and have a great time with the chics".  He sent a man to earth and said "Come follow me".  You are that man.  You are not your penis.  To devalue all that you are by obsessing on your penis, is to have misplaced values and a misdirected life.  Joy and peace amid trials come as a result of having Godly values.

I find when I feel sorry for myself for any reason that it is usually a sign of selfish egocentric behavior.  Go to a children's hospital or a cancer center, or an old folks home today and say, "I need to help someone".  Lose yourself in service to others.  Lead a rich life of lightening others load, and you will gain some perspective.

You asked for input, this is mine.  I promise that it works.

Good luck my friend.

PS: "Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle"  You are not unique in your struggle with problems.  As yours are hidden from others, theirs are often hidden from you.


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Angus, editor, comment: Men, read the following post by Christine 3 times, then read it again. Christine is a long-time member and moderator on this board. This post summarizes quite clearly the psychological component that destroys some men when confronted with Peyronies Disease. What Christine posts here is the truth and nothing but the truth, and should be taken to heart by ALL men fighting Peyronies Disease.

Christine  Reply #477 on: 11/10/08 at 12:12:16 AM »  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aloi,

While I am speaking clearly for myself here, I think that my opinion is shared by many many women.  Please listen to my words and know that I mean every word I am about to say.

If it came to be that I found that I could NEVER have sexual intercourse again with my partner due to his inability caused by Peyronies Disease or any other condition, it would NOT affect my love for him one bit. My love for him was not built on the condition of his penis and is not conditional to that either.   However, in the same light, I would always expect to be able to have all the other aspects of a close, intimate, and romantic relationship with this man that I love so dear.   There are so many many other ways to have that kind of relationship.  Some physical, some emotional, some just conversational.  I want to feel that the man I am in love with holds me in his heart and is open to share his life with me which would include the good as well as the bad.  I would want to know that I am allowed to support him in his trials and that he would be willing to show me comfort and love in any way that he is capable of.

You should not dwell on what you cannot do.....but emphasis in your mind what you can do and do it with love, and caring in your heart for the one that you love.

Now you may be wondering...how can a women fall in love with me when I have this problem???  Well, to me the answer is simple.   Why are you basing your relationship on your problem???   A good relationship that holds much value should be established  and nurtured for a long while before the subject of your penis should even be an issue.   I know, I know.....it may be an old fashioned way to look at things. But believe me, if more couples took the time to get to know each other and develop a real relationship BEFORE establishing a sexual relationship the problems couples have that send them to divorce court would probably be a whole lot lower.

My advice,  take your time....don't let your condition rule your future.  Any woman that truly loves you will not base her love on what you can't do....but will love you for what you can do, and will want to share your life and fight this war together.  Don't shut her out of your life, be honest, let her love and support you and most of all be a partner in every aspect. 

So many men feel that their life is over at the realization that their condition has hindered their future abilities to have intercourse.  The anger period and the depression period is so hard for them to take and they reject and push the woman in their lives as far from them as possible. In my case my husband would refuse to even hold my hand....now what does that simple act of affection have to do with his penis or the lack of his ability to use it???  This is what confuses me to death!!  When they can clearly see that this woman is not rejecting them why are they not grabbing tight to the one person who can help them, support them, and love them through one of the most trying times in their lives.  Why push the one person who already loves you away and then wonder if you will ever be able to attract a woman.  YOU ALREADY HAD ONE!!!  Or they resolve themselves to being alone and without a women and turn into a lonely depressive individual.     ok...so I know I am talking more about my own experience here but it's a story that I am hearing time and time again.   

I guess I am just saying that if you have a loving partner that is willing to stand by you and work through this condition and fight the fight with you....then let her.   If you don't have a partner and am worried about your ability to get one.....start by establishing a relationship that is not based on sex which is probably good advice with or without Peyronies Disease.   You will probably see that if you find a woman that loves you, and I mean truly loves you, the condition of your penis will not be the issue.....but establishing ways to show your partner that she is loved and that her feelings are considered will go farther than you think.

Just my two cents.    keep the change.

Blessings,  Christine



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Hawk « Reply #478 on: 11/10/08 at 01:11:22 AM »

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You gotta love Christine and the value of what she says when she finally decides to post and say it

That was an awesome post that every man here would do well to ponder.  Maybe that post should be printed and left on a few desks for husbands that shut their wives out.

Back rubs do not require a straight rigid penis. Nor do conversation, compliments, a nice meal out for two, or a movie together. 

If a man is saying, "I have Peyronies Disease so I can never take you out to eat, have meaningful conversation, rub your back, cradle you in my arms, or tell you "you are gorgeous" again then he is surrendering to major impairment that will make him much less satisfying as a partner.  In fact he is admitting he has given up the thought of being a partner at all. Before worrying about what supplement or device might straighten his penis a few degrees he would do well to fix the part of him that has a guaranteed fix.  that is of course the psychological aspect that is almost always what devastates relationships and happiness.

Because Peyronies Disease takes away one thing, do not be like a spoiled child and throw away everything else that you can still provide and experience.  That includes sex.  Sex does not even require a penis much less a large straight erect penis.  I will be the first to admit i loved having mine and I miss it but I will not lose everything because I lost one thing.

"Life does not have to be perfect to be wonderful" Annette Funichello


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 Supportive1   Re: Psychological Component - Coping with Peyronie's Disease
« Reply #483 on: 11/11/08 at 10:41:29 PM

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Aoli and all - I read the men's threads regularly and share regularly in the womens forum, and am finding so much information and support here.  I am so grateful.  I have been dating my guy (who has Peyronies) for about a year.  The sex stopped once the Peyronies progressed to where insertion was painful to him and actually impossible due to the bend when he got an erection.  That is when ALL intimacy stopped on ALL levels.  No more touching, no more kissing, no more hugs, no more snuggles, no more back rubs -- nothing because of his fear of getting an erection and his not being able to perform and satisfy me.   I feel rejected, which in turn makes me feel fat, ugly, unattractive, unwanted, etc.  Even though whenever I see him, I see a handsome, sexy man, who I want to sit next to, hold hands, hug, kiss, and cuddle up with overnight.  But he wants no part of it, and consistently pushes me away, fearing that "all of that" will lead to sex.  It is horribly difficult for me to imagine staying with him; but ONLY because of his constant rejection of me.  If only he would allow some sort of physical intimacy and closeness, I know I could stay beside him through this, no matter how long it takes for him to get "better" whether that be physically or psychologically, or God-willing, both!

One of the other ladies wrote this in one of her entries the other day.  It is so true.  And I hope by sharing this on the men's page, that someone, if just one guy, gets it, it will save a loving relationship!!

"The only thing they can legitimately blame Peyronies Disease for is the bend in their willy. All other actions are theirs alone, and they have to own up to them."



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Youth is wasted on the young
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2014, 11:56:57 AM »

There is some good news: For everyone younger than 30 i guess.
youth is wasted on the young is not a foolish statement.   it is a fact of life for sure.   but another dicho, or saying compensates for that rough one: if it don't kill ya it makes you stronger.
you might want to try getting to know a girl before you take her down.  i mean down.   the lower chakra is nothing to mess with or rely upon.  i'm way older.  let me tell you lust never dies, unless yo are with the wrong beauty.   beauty fades even when other men are trying to steal the Grrrl you used to be mesmerized by and now cannot stand.I mean beauty is relative and thus undependable.   love is mental.   the main connection is friendship and harmony and humor.   male female is a funny thing.  kids will let you know about that.   and love is not sex.   sex is great.   but many great men have done without it.  wise men have chosen not to have sex for good reasons.

A good friendship will survive a deformed penis OR it was not a good relationship.  will yo love your women if she has breast cancer and has to lose both her breasts.   or what if yo are military and lose a leg--you cannot run or dance or do anything but hop to the john when you need to go.  how attractive is that?   i'm saying there is much worse.
so get over it and get on the Right path of finding a woman who can talk to for hours without betting bored.   or be with without lusting, or lusting but not acting on it.  and striving to get it on mentally.   so the joy of meeting your soulmate--i'm not even going there, to soul--if there be soul...mate, is to push carnal news to theback page in favor of whatever it is that lasts forever 9if that also is not an exaggeration).
     
i'm saying explicitly that peyronies is an opportunity for personal growth, call it evolution.   and although not invited, might become the best thing you never asked for.
work on your self.  Grow.   as an aside, i wonder if we might not have something in common: an obsession with our maleness.   our neediness.  horniness.  whatever you want to call it.   could that be a subtle causal factor?  there is an appalling lack of science on this malady.   but each
evil is only live spelled backwards.   take it as a learning experience.  and grow.
[nothing is worse than waking up in the AM with a woman you can't stand to be with--hopefully that mistake is eliminated in favor of so many other overlooked and underrated aspects of love and kindness. and, speaking of under-studied--could you imagine being gay in this circle?  nothing is more macho than gay  sex.   it is almost narcissistic in the mirror of another man before you.   and thus very penile conscious--more so than your average hetero-styling.
if a gay man could speak herein i would like to hear what anguish this might cause.   
     
I've had a ton of sex in my life: way more than i deserved or expected.   and never went gay even tho' options abound in mean o' dirty Frisco.   saw the face of liberation and pride in last weekend's gay pride week and i'm proud of their work in everyone's behalf.   when i grew up in Illinois, fellatio was illegal, as was cunnilingus.   you can read about it in Playboy, issues at the beginning.   see the Marilyn Monroe issue.   now there is an icon no one loved, but everyone wanted.  Freedom to comes with freedom from.
   





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