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Penile Fracture

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Norm

I'm not sure where this question goes cause it hits so many topics. I was just wondering; if your curvature was caused by penile fracture, is that still Peyronies Disease? Is it still treated the same way? Normally, we are talking about plaque formation causing the curvature. But if it was a blowout of the corpus, untreated, is it still the same thing? The fracture works the same as the plaque in disallowing blood flow, but for a different reason. So, assuming mine is a penile fracture, or blowout, is the VED going to correct that, ever? Is all the Pentox in the world going to cure that, ever? Or am I just wasting time by not going straight to a surgeon?
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!

james1947

Difficult to answer to your question Norm. I had also a not treated penile fracture and developed Peyronies plaques, bends and hourglasses.
In my opinion penile fracture is one of the main causes fro Peyronies disease.
VED, Pentox, low dose Cialis and Ubiquinol has helped me, I can't say really how much.

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Knight

Great question Norm. I'm thinking along the very same lines as you. Although it is early in my treatment I'm having difficulty believing anything short of surgery is going to be effective. I don't even know if I ever suffered a fracture, but I don't see how this could have happened any other way.

Norm

That's where I am coming from. If I have a blown out corpus and resulting hinge from the fracture, then how is a VED or Pentox ever going to repair that? Maybe I am over thinking this, but I just don't see it. I would think surgery is the only way to correct this if it is, indeed, a penile fracture. That is what they call it when you blow out your corpus cavernosa.
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!

Norm

I finally bit the bullet and made the call. I am scheduled to see Dr. Allen Morey at UT Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas next month. He is a renowned surgeon in penile reconstruction. He started by rebuilding penises damaged on the military battlefield and has moved into helping guys with other problems; like us. His approach for Peyronies Disease is called a "peno-scrotal plication". He does NOT de-glove the penis, which was a factor for me. He makes a 2mm incision at the base of the penis and does his mattress sutures from that opening. He has done several hundred of these, so hopefully he can handle my problem, an 80 degree dogleg left. He has already held a slot for me in surgery if we decide that is required after my initial visit. I can handle a few days in Dallas. His technique requires minimal downtime and has less chance of Erectile Dysfunction than other techniques. Does it sound like I am trying to sell this idea? Yes, I am. I am excited but scared to death. Jackp has heard good reports on this doc. That helped my decision. The biggest issue right now is whether my insurance will pay. I have BCBS. They say they will pay if it is a "medical necessity". I'll bet he can word it in such a way that it is necessary.
Right now, I am hoping someone here has had this type surgery and has good news. Or maybe someone else knows of him. In any event, I will report in as I learn more. (Should we move my post to the Surgery board?)
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!

jackp

Norm

The doctors insurance department knows which diagnostic codes to send the insurance company to get the procedure approved. It is best you not call the insurance company they will just give you the old run around.

Send me an email and I will put you in touch with a gentleman that had reconstruction surgery by Dr. Morey. He had damage worse than peyronies and had a great outcome. 

I had the choice of Dr. Morey or Dr. Milam and chose Dr. Milam because of his experience with the length expanding implant (AMS700 LGX).  I don't know why but some doctors deglove the penis for procedures that Doctors like Dr. Milam and Dr. Morey have a solution without degloving. 
When I was referred to Dr. Milam my local doctor said I might have to have the degloving procedure. I was relieved when I talked Peggy, Dr. Milams nurse, and she said I did not need that radical of a procedure. The pubic approach would be the best for me. That was confirmed at my consultation. 

Scared to death, so was I, that is normal. You are going to be just fine.

Jackp
http://jackp-penileimplant.blogspot.com
[url=http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,890.0.html]My History[/url]

KAC

Wow, that sounds like a much better surgical approach than all those videos on the internet.  The few I watched kind of freaked me out.  Glad for you.  KAC

Knight

Congrats on the decision Norm. Here's to a fast and complete recovery! Please keep us in the loop as you continue the process.

TheTreee

Norm, I'm very curious to know how your procedure goes with Dr. Morey. I have a congenital curve to the left of approximately 35 degrees. I know it's not a huge curve, but it's enough that I've been considering plication surgery. But the thought of de-gloving really frightens me, especially when my issue is relatively mild, all things considered.

Dr. Morey's penoscrotal incision, as opposed to de-gloving, sounds like it could be a less radical, less invasive solution. I'm also in Texas, so it could be a realistic solution for me.

Good luck with your surgery, and please report back your experiences. Hoping for the best...

Norm

I visited with Dr. Morey's office today. I was told that I need not worry about the insurance. They said the hospital will verify that the procedure is covered during the pre-registration. The doctor's fee, should it not be covered, is about $3200. I thought that was very reasonable and doable. They also said that he knows the correct code numbers to use to describe it as medically necessary. I know there is still the chance of a hitch, but I feel better about it.
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!

james1947

Norm

When you will make the surgery?

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Norm

James,
I meet with the doc on the 16th with surgery on the 18th this month,
if we agree on it.
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!

LWillisjr

Do you know what kind of procedure is being considered?
Developed peyronies 2007 - 70 degree dorsal
Traction/MEDs/Injections/Surgery 2008
66y/o  14 years Peyronies free
[URL="[url="http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,895.0.html"]http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,895.0.html[/url]"]My History

Norm

Les,
He uses penoscrotal plication. It entails a 2mm incision at the base of the penis on the long side of the curve. The skin is elastic enough that he can make the plication sutures through that incision. I understand he uses mattress sutures and keeps adding until straightness is achieved. Close the incision and all is done. It is still the basic idea of plicating the long side but with a lot less trauma than de-gloving. There is little down time. It is day surgery with a six week follow up. If you don't like it, he can go back and remove the sutures; no harm no foul. In his words, you don't really lose any length because you have already lost it to the Peyronies Disease. It makes sense to me so I am going with the intent to follow through unless I hear something I don't like in our consultation on the 16th.
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!

csus


Norm

Well guys, I began my journey today when I met with Dr. Morey of Dallas for the first time. I am still in Dallas awaiting my surgery on Wednesday. My appointment was at 1:30. I was taken back to the room before 1:30 and his Fellow came in immediately. He asked the preliminary questions of how long, how bad, etc. Then he went to get Dr. M and briefed him on the way. Dr. Morey and his Fellow both visited with me. They examined me and looked at the pictures I had brought with me. He talked about Xiaflex, other injections, Pentox, VED, and supplements. He said that they all have their good points and purpose, but none are intended to help a curve as severe as mine. They both visited with me and my wife for about 30 minutes. He was very pleasant. None of the conversation was uncomfortable. It was like telling your best buddy about it, a best buddy that can actually fix it. He says he has done hundreds of these and mine is an easy fix. I am scheduled for the surgery Wed. at 11:00 under general anesthesia. He said I could begin the ride back home that afternoon, but to stop when I start to get uncomfortable. I can go back to work when I get home on Thursday. I will have a bandage for the first week. Then a follow up in six weeks. In all, it was a very efficiently run place. He instilled confidence in my wife and I. The hardest part of the whole deal was parking at UTSW Medical Center. I will post again when I have something more to tell.
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!

liber

good luck and feel your positivity, great stuff.

jackp

Norm

I know several that have had good results with him. Keep us posted on your progress.

Gods Speed.

Jackp
http://jackp-penileimplant.blogspot.com
[url=http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,890.0.html]My History[/url]

Norm

Jack,
I was thoroughly impressed with how smoothly everything was run. I have never been in and out of a doctor office that fast. I spent all but about 5 minutes of my time with a doctor. The other five minutes were spent signing in for the first time.
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!

Norm

I have a few moments of reflection this morning while I ponder my surgery tomorrow. Yes, I am nervous about it. But I am ready to get it done. I know that surgery is the last resort for all of us here. And in no way do I advocate it for the rest of you. But my particular situation tells me this is the way to go. I am 64 years old. I don't have too much sexually active time remaining anyway. I have already lost three years of my life to this ailment. I have tried the supplements, Pentox, and VED, all to no avail. I do not intend to lose any more time to it. My wife agrees fully. While sex has been achievable, it just has not been the same. She would be satisfied to go on as we are rather than have surgery. But since I have chosen to do it, she is with me. We both want the best we can get for the time we have left. And had I not found Dr. Morey and his less invasive technique, I probably would have spent the rest of my life with a bent tool. So here's to all you guys....keep up the good fight! I am getting my Christmas present tomorrow! 
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!

Mentos

Good luck norm. Wishing you fast healing and the best of results.

Skjaldborg

Norm,

Good luck and godspeed!

-Skjald

Knight

Merry Christmas Norm! We are waiting with the hope of a happy and successful report!

God bless!

james1947

GOD bless you Norm to have a very good outcome. :)

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Norm

I am on the way home from surgery. The doc and my wife say it all went well. They say I am straight as a pencil. I can't tell because of the bandage and I am doped to the gills. Pain comes in waves, but I don't think it's anything I cannot handle. I will post tomorrow after I live through the night. Hopefully.
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!

csus

That's great Norm!

You've been in my thoughts all day. Here's to a quick recovery.

Norm

I am home after a six hour ride. The pain was really bad the first hour or so. Then, when the induced erection went down the pain went with it. If it's no worse than this, I can bear it. I do have some bleeding, to be expected. The bandage slipped down where I really had a hard time trying to go to the bathroom first time. That was not expected. This bandage is supposed to stay on til Friday morning, but I think I will have to re-do it tonight. I am sitting in the recliner with an icepack for a while. We will see how the night goes.
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!

Mentos

Great to hear buddy. Heal fast!!

Norm

The night was not bad at all. I did wake a couple of times because I could feel it. It felt like I needed it to be propped on a pillow. I won't say it was pain. I slept just fine. I got up rather slowly this morning but am at work right now. I work in an office, so it is not a problem. I would not be able to do physical labor. I can feel a pulling any time I sit or rise or even move wrong. In all, I'd say it is going just fine.
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!

Knight

Awesome news Norm! Hope you heal pain free and fast and have a wonderful Christmas.

Once you are feeling better I'd love discuss how you explained what's going on with your family, friends and co-workers. I may be in a similar situation here before long. I don't know how much longer I can wait for nothing to happen and live with this constant itchy, crawly irritation. It's making me crazy.

God bless you friend!

Norm

I can answer part of those questions now. My wife, of course, knows all about it and has been beside me(ha ha) all the way. My best male friend also knows all about it. To my boss and co-workers, I gave this story: I had a blockage in my groin area that had to be repaired. That is not really a lie. There was a plaque blockage, it was in the groin AREA, and they did repair it. I just did not go into the detail of telling them specifically where that blockage was and that it caused me to have a bent penis, which got corrected by tucking in the other side. They can assume it was a vein in the leg part of my groin. I will let them believe that. No one has pushed to know more.

In about 10 days I should know how straight I am when the bandage comes off to stay. The doctor did tell me to go ahead and use it, gently,  after one month so I could report to him on my six week follow up and tell him how it worked. I was very pleased and impressed with the doctor, his staff, and the hospital. I was one of six of these that he did yesterday. So far, I cannot say enough good about Dr. Morey and UTSW in Dallas.
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!

james1947

Norm

Good to read things are going as expected.
But back at work after one day? Don't need to stay at home to rest for a while?

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Norm

Yes James,
I did return to work today. And that was after the 5 1/2 hour ride back home yesterday(wife drove, that's scarier than surgery). I was wheeled out in the chair and got in the car for the ride home. The first part of the ride was pretty bad. I felt every piece of gravel in the road. But after the medically induced erection went down, everything was ok. Today I wore trousers that were cut looser than my normal jeans. I had no problems. The day went fine and sitting or bending were the only things that gave me any discomfort. So of course I dropped everything I touched. I left work early and came home to get on the ice pack for a while. My big night will be taking a sponge bath then washing my hair in the sink, as I cannot take a shower until tomorrow night. I will begin changing the bandage daily as of tomorrow. So far, all is well.
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!

Knight

Thanks for the alibi Norm! I'll remember that and use it in your honor should that time come around for me.

I am so happy for you! God bless my friend!

Norm

Today has been pretty good. I am a little uncomfortable as I was thru the night. The bandage seems to be pulling. And maybe it is that the hair is beginning to grow back from where they shaved. This sticky gauze tape may be grabbing at the stubble. I get to unwrap it and take a shower tonight. That may or may not be a thrill. But it will all be worth it if I come out straight. This has been a small price to pay. Fortunately, I have yet to have an erection. That may be a whole story unto itself.
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!

Skjaldborg

Speaking as a man who had abdominal surgery a few years back, don't let the shower hit the stitches full blast and go easy on the soap. Good luck and glad healing is going well!

Best,

Skjald

Norm

Thanks. I am lying here pondering it. I look forward to the hot water and feeling clean. But I am dreading having my doodah uncovered and vulnerable. I'll let ya know if I go through with it.  :-\
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!

Norm

I am day 3 from plication surgery. I bathed last night and that was uneventful, though I was careful. I have to say that there has really been no pain. I have been a little sore and certainly am always conscious to protect that area. I still, thankfully, have not had an erection. There has been such little pain that I am beginning to wonder if the doc actually did anything.  :o
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!

james1947

Norm

I suppose your doctor is excellent and didn't touch nothing that is not mast for your surgery.
You can have a pleasant Christmas :)

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Norm

I awoke early this morning on day 5 after surgery to an aching erection. Of course I wasn't too concerned with the pain. I headed to the bathroom to get a look. It was gloriously straight! It hasn't been this straight since I was a boy. This is great! I still have some swelling and bruising, but in a few weeks I'll try to post a before and after picture. There is a world of difference! I am excited!
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!

IhatePD

Norm,

I am really happy for you and hoping everything works out perfectly for you!

jackp

Norm

That is great to hear!! The first time I saw myself after my implant I could not hardly believe what I was seeing.  I keeps on getting better as you heal.

Jackp
http://jackp-penileimplant.blogspot.com
[url=http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,890.0.html]My History[/url]

Norm

This is day 6. At this juncture, I must say that erections are not your friend. During your waking hours, think only of a brick wall. Don't even look at the girls. While asleep, be ready to get up and go pee soon as you feel the first sensation. I am a sleepyhead and try to lie there and ignore it. Don't do it. You won't win. Get up and go to the bathroom. While you are up anyway, you can grab a peek and marvel at the straightness. Then go back to sleep. Today is another brick wall day.
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!

alexdroo

I wonder how often fractures actually happen, in comparison to how often they're reported.  Mine happened when I was young and heaven knows I didn't go get it looked at.

What did they say Norm, is it considered peyronies?  Glad to hear that you're doing well.  Did you have lesser sensation after the injury, and or issues with Erectile Dysfunction?

Norm

Alex,
There are a lot of answers to these questions, and many are just my opinion, not fact. My answers may get pretty lengthy.

My guess is that most of the men here suffered a penile fracture whether they knew it or not. It is just my opinion that it is the most common cause of Peyronies Disease. It happens to us, we may not know when, or maybe we know exactly when. But even if we know, we wouldn't know what to do about it. Seriously, how many men know what a penile fracture is and that they should go immediately to the ER, and know this before it happens to them? We don't study Peyronies Disease beforehand. It happens, we think it will go away, we wait, and some time later we begin to study and find that we should have sought medical help right then. But in my case, like most here, there is not a surgeon in a 200 mile radius that would know what to do for this injury. So we always have to correct or repair it later. End result?; Peyronies Disease. At the time it happens, it is just an injured penis. But when it fails to heal correctly back to its original form it becomes Peyronies Disease. So is penile fracture Peyronies Disease? No, it is an injury. Untreated, will it become Peyronies Disease? Probably so. Just my opinion.

Next, you ask about Erectile Dysfunction. Is Peyronies Disease Erectile Dysfunction? I guess it is. Erectile Dysfunction is anything that does not allow you to achieve the same erection you had before. We normally think of it as not being able to achieve erection at all. But it takes many other forms also. I would think an erection that makes a 90 degree turn where it did not previously, would be considered a dysfunction of the penis. Again, just my opinion.
I did not lose the ability to get an erection. But I certainly lost size. And while I did not lose sensation, I lost the proper, shall we say, angle of attack. It simply did not feel the same as before. There have been more times than I can count in the past three years where I have not been able to finish the deed because the discomfort was greater than the pleasure. I could start the race, but I could not finish it. So to your question, did I lose sensation, I don't think so. But I think the sensation got over taken by another one not so pleasurable.

In a nutshell, my doctor said that anything which causes an otherwise normal penis to bend, is Peyronies Disease. He agreed that I had Peyronies Disease. Even though I have lost a great deal of size, I am now straight. I am hoping this alone will correct my problems and I can enjoy what sexually active years I have left. In a few more weeks I can tell you if this surgery was worth it. I can, however, tell you that my self esteem is already better. I am looking forward to an activity that I have been avoiding for three years.
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!

Shlomo

Norm, thank you for posting this account of your experience with surgery.  It is very helpful to those like me who are contemplating taking that frightening step.  I am very happy for you and wish you a speedy recovery, and wish you and your wife many wonderful years to come. Please keep filling us in on your progress.  The question about what to tell family, friends, and coworkers is an excellent one, and I like the advice you gave on it. I think I'll post that question as a new topic since I believe several people will be interested.  Happy New Year!

Norm

Day 8 is looking pretty good. I am sans bandage for a couple days now. The dissolving stitches are almost all gone. It is much more comfortable now in my jeans. I don't have to be so careful when sitting and rising. I felt around on it last night in the shower and it is not nearly so sore as it was. Just a little tender would be my description. I can feel the internal sutures where I was plicated. That is no big deal. He said that would eventually go away. Even if it doesn't, I am not concerned with it. I might even be ribbed for texture like the condoms advertise. There is still some bruising but I can see that getting better every day. In about three more weeks I will get to take it for a test ride. Assuming I can still function, this is gonna be so much better. 
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!

Knight

Glad to read that things are progressing nicely and healing is the word! All the best to you Norm!

LWillisjr

Norm,
Been following your progress.     ;D
Developed peyronies 2007 - 70 degree dorsal
Traction/MEDs/Injections/Surgery 2008
66y/o  14 years Peyronies free
[URL="[url="http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,895.0.html"]http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,895.0.html[/url]"]My History

Norm

I guess this is day 10. I was wrong about the stitches having dissolved. That must have been scab because the stitches are still there. No big deal, things are going fine. Each day is just a little better than the day before. There is still tenderness but it is not bad. The early morning erections still wake me, but even that pain is not so bad. I still marvel at the straightness. One thing that surprises me is my size. I expected to be smaller. Everything you read says that plication does cost you some size. However, darned if I don't feel like it's bigger than before surgery. I know that doesn't make sense. I assume it is because it has been so long since I have seen it stick straight out that I am just seeing a trick of the mind. That's ok. I'll take whatever I think I see!
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!