What just happened!?

[NeoV]

Hey everyone, I am going to try to make this brief.

Something odd happened and I'll leave it up to you to decide if it was a VED related issue or not..

First of all VED has been working wonders, that's partly why I haven't been rapid posting like I did a few weeks ago.
My penis is reshaping itself and I'm very happy about it.

However, I had to stop VED for a few days due to an edema or swelling under the skin of my penis.
The swelling went down within a few days and during that period I did not use the VED.

Yesterday my penis seemed fine so I did a light VED session, and now here I am today. Earlier today I decided to masturbate for the first time in a while, I did not use the VED this morning.

I did so gently, yet upon orgasm the glans filled way too much with blood like my pre-VED orgasms used to do.

After that I was left with a soft glans. I can get an erection just fine, but the head of my penis is perfectly soft and spongy. It's as if the head of my penis, during orgasm, filled past it's limit and is now unable to fill up properly. This just happened, so it may very well go away tomorrow. There wasn't any pain, only discomfort during orgasm.

Has anyone experienced this?

I think I did not take a long enough break after my edema / rupture? I only took a few days break so maybe I need to heal whatever tore whether it was a lymph vessel or something else..

EDIT: Okay guys, I am convinced I need to take a longer break, a real break, from VED and all activities (masturbation, erection inducing), before I start anything again. I'm very sad about this since VED is working so well, and I'm confused too as to why the edema even happened since I didn't do anything over the top. But either way this is it, time to admit my mistake and take a break.
It has been said before, but this is just more evidence that VED can be overpumped and overheld without even realizing it. I even went into VED knowing this kind of thing could happen, and it still happened. I hope this encourages new comers to always pump lower and hold less.

-V

[jackp]

NeoV

What you are posting is typical male, more is better. You have all the symptoms of over pumping and holding pressure for too long.  Yes, I made he same mistake, DUH!!! You may have to leave your penis alone for a week to 10 days and let it heal. Then start back using the VED exercise like it is posted.

Don't worry with that short break you will quickly regain your success.

Jackp
http://jackp-penileimplant.blogspot.com

[KAC]

Is edema really a concern?  I get it every now and then--more from duration, I think, than overpumping.  I sometimes lose track of time.  It just goes down after a few hours.  I haven't worried about it.

[Old Man]

KAC:

Yes, you should be concerned about getting edema from Peyronies Disease therapy. It is one of the worst things you can do when using the VED therapy. First, over time and repeated swellings, the lymph tissue can be damaged and cause permanent scars.  Second, repeated cycles of edema will definitely affect ones dick/penis, whichever you want to call it, by making it more easy for it to occur.

It is also is one of the best signs of over pumping the vacuum pressure and/or holding the pumped up pressure for more that a few seconds. Some uros are recommending pumping up and holding for 30 minutes! IMHO, based on my 20 plus years of dealing with guys using VED therapy that is asinine advice for anyone who is suffering from Peyronies Disease as well as ED. 30 minutes is the longest time that cock rings should be left on ones dick before removing and letting blood flow into the corpora or otherwise permanent damage can be inflected to ones dick.

According to the first aid protocols, 30 minutes is the longest time that even a tourniquet should be held before releasing and letting fresh blood flow into and out of the body part. Any time held longer than that can and will add to the injury, etc.

So, bottom line, what I am saying is this:  any and all members using the VED therapy whether it is a one cylinder or a three cylinder VED, the protocols for each of these VEDs MUST BE ADHERED TO WITH ALL CAUTION!

So note to all:  BE FOREWARNED ABOUT THE CORRECT WAY TO USE VED PRESSURE AND HOLDING TIMES. FOLLOW THE VED PROTOCOL LISTED IN THE VED BOARD SECTION OF THE HOME PAGE INDEX FOR THE VED MODEL THAT YOU ARE USING!!

Old Man

[NeoV]

UPDATE:

Taking a break from VED, but still 100% believe it in since it has nearly cured me already. As wrong as it is to use the word "cure", I am seeing miraculous results. The edema and soft glans I experienced I attribute to overpumping.

[Mike_O]

"Is edema really a concern?"

Good question!

My opinion is that excess lymphatic fluid is not good if it remains longer than 24 hours. See my comments on this thread:
Penile Lymphocele and VED - Peyronies Society Forums

With VED therapy we must balance benefits of suction (vacuum) with the possible consequences of excess lymphatic fluid. Some guys with poor circulation will accumulate lymphatic fluid and not drain it - for those folks, VED is very difficult and may not be possible - again, my opinion. It may be helpful to research "treatment for lymphedema".

Best Wishes!

[RoyHobbs]

I want to clarify Dr. Lue's method because I believe he is one of the Uros old man is referring to when mentioning 30 minute hold times. He does not advocate a single hold time of 30 minutes. What he prescribed was 6 cycles of 5 minute holds. So pump up, hold for 5 minutes and release. I did this for four months without any issues and then I stopped because of blistering.

I am not saying that people should do this. But at no time did Lue ask me to hold for 30 minutes. He is a well respected doctor on this forum so I thought it was important to clarify his method.

[Old Man]

Roy:

While what you are saying about the holding times that Dr. Lue states to you, there are plenty of posts floating around the forum stating that he recommends holding times of 30 minutes. He should state that the time can be up to 30 minutes, but also state that this should be done in increments of 5 or minutes at a time. He is leading a lot of guys to believe they should pump up, hold it for 30 minutes then release.

We all know that 30 minutes limit is the same time as for holding a tourniquet on a bleeding wound to keep from losing too much blood. The same applies for holding times with a VED if one holds that time for a total time without releasing the pressure.

I have over 20 years of experience with VED therapy for myself and helping many other guys with the disorder/disease. And, over that time I have learned much about what is best and what is not best for therapy. I have untold numbers of PMs from new members asking what to do when they have overpumped the pressure, held the pressure too long and developed severe edema. This is a problem that any and all must face, but learn that less pressure and less holding times are much better than higher pressures and longer holding times.

There are warning notes all over this forum about this problem, so new members MUST BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL WITH VED THERAPY BEFORE DOING FURTHER INJURY TO THEMSELVES.

Old Man

[Mike_O]

With all due respect to doctors' recommendations and folks posting on this forum - I think long hold times (even 5 minutes) are a big mistake.  If you search this forum you will see that, many years ago, I too questioned hold times. Now, years later, I am here to say that long hold times result in excess lymphatic fluid that is difficult to clear from the penis on the most healthy of men and even more difficult on those who are overweight, inactive, or have inflammation (that is, Peyronie's). Best Wishes!

[NeoV]

Mike_O,

You hit the nail on the head and confirmed exactly what Old Man and now I agree to be true. I am amazed at these forums and how far the understanding of VED has come, outside of the medical community.

I held for 10 minutes, and got edema that is still present after a week. I also have a somewhat soft glans.

I think it will eventually subside, but who knows how long it will take.. Have you seen it go away Mike?

[Old Man]

Note to all:

About pump up and holding times again:  

Please read the new revised one cylinder VED protocol in the VED board section of the home page index of the main forum log in page. This protocol has the most important instructions in using one cylinder VEDs, but much of the steps can be adapted to the three cylinder VEDs.

It plainly states that the new modified version of the protocol lists pump up and holding instructions list times that are far below that of those now being prescribed by many well known ED and Peyronies Disease doctors.

Those times are based on much input from members on and off the forum which were developed from trial and error practice, etc.

So, it would behoove any and all (especially new members) to read that protocol before embarking on a course of VED therapy.

There are many members on this forum that have ''been there and done that'' with VED therapy and are very willing and able to assist others and new members at any time.

Old Man

[Mike_O]

Reading the internet about penis pumping will reveal lots of guys who are pumping and holding long periods resulting in significant increases in their penis size - they mistakenly believe this to be a healthy practice. I believe trapped excess lymphatic fluid to be a hindrance to health, healing and healthy tissue. For further reading, I suggest a simple internet search on "lymphedema" - there is plenty of information available.

Here are my comments from another thread:

Yes - blocked lymphatic vessels can appear to be string-like structures just under the skin. Some people mistakenly think it is a blocked blood vessel or scar tissue. Excess lymph fluid in the skin looks like a blister or simply puffy tissue.

Excess vacuum (suction) and/or excess duration (holding suction too long) causes lymph fluid to collect in the outer tissue of the skin. Trial and error is what most guys use to avoid the condition. There has been some experimentation with "condom pumping" using a tight fitting condom on an erect penis then pumping in the tube. It is also good to remember that everyone seems to be a bit different when it comes to their lymph system - what works for 1 guy causes a problem for another guy.

The lymphatic system of the body has no "pump" like the heart for blood vessels. Gravity can also work against the lymph system especially on a "dead end" body part (penis) that often hangs down.

Over the years several remedies have been suggested and these are my favorite:

Massage lightly - but the problem is knowing in which direction to go. The vessel can be gently rolled between the finger tips and it will sometimes resolve.

Elevation - get creative using anything to elevate the lymph filled area above the surrounding body. Some guys have suggested a ring of towels while lying on one's back.

Heat - usually heat will expand vessels so a warm bath or heating pad will help increase circulation. One clever guy put a disposable hand warmer in his snug brief-style underwear with the penis pointing up and reported quick resolution of blocked lymph vessels.

Compression is another way of getting lymph fluid to re-absorb.

I have successfully used these methods to resolve any problems

As a rule, I now know that any excess lymph fluid that does not resolve in less than 12 hours is a sign of a problem and I must not only address the problem but also change my routine to avoid a recurrence of the problem in the future.

[Old Man]

Mike_0:

Really great post about the lymph problems with over pumping the vacuum pressure. This is what has been mentioned over and over all over this entire forum.

However, some members just cannot resist the temptation to pump up until it is too late. They see some fantastic enlargement of their penis with first cycle of pumping and just pump away watching it grow and are not mindful of what is happening to their penises. Holding times have now been revised in the one cylinder VED therapy protocol in the VED board section as mentioned in my post below.

I implore any and all members using VED therapy to practice with their VEDs, at least for several days, before embarking on the full blows (no pun intended) schedule of pumping sessions.

The information if Mike's post below is invaluable for all of us who use VED therapy.

Old Man