CAUSES of Peyronie's Disease - started 2005

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George999

I think this is a REALLY GOOD analogy that describes much of what is going on with peyronies.  Both cartilage and connective tissue (of the type involved with peyronies) or notoriously hard pressed for blood supply even in a healthy evironment.  This makes them extremely vulnerable to any loss of what little supply they have, and loss of blood supply triggers a progressive degenerative process.  So I think this is an excellent illustration of the problem.  The challenge then becomes to so rejuvinate the perimiter blood supply that healing (and restored blood supply) can progress inward to the affected tissues.  And personally, I think that this is possible, even in cases where treatment is delayed.  We just have to find out how.

howcanthisbe

im a bit confused if I have Peyronies Disease or not now. The other day when I got a erection the what I thought to be plauque strips are actually veins as I once thought was possible. I looked down at my erection and I could see both of them pulsnating, and I could feel them also. They are veins for sure. The question is why are these veins hard? I do have a small dent and a slight curve, so I think I have Peyronies Disease. But can hardened veins produce Peyronies Disease or what?

Tim468

Dear Howcanthisbe<

Weren't you going to go to a doctor, instead of speculating about what is wrong? Certainly, none of us are qualified to comment on this matter.

Tim
52, Peyronies Disease for 30 years, upward curve and some new lesions.

Liam

HCTB,

I want to say this in a kind way.  

You have been saying the same thing since June.  If you had gone to the doc the first time we advised, you probably wouldn't be here now.

Stop worrying yourself into a condition.  Your symptoms do not sound like Peyronies Disease to me.  But, I'm not a doc.  There is only one way to know.  

Go find out and put this behind you.  And from here on, go get a diagnosis if you're worried about something.  Doctors get it right the large majority of the time.

Liam  

"I don't ask why patients lie, I just assume they all do."
House

howcanthisbe

I know I was going to go to the docotr. The problem is  really truely dont have the money right now, rent is due in like 6 days and I dont have insurance.  If I could go to the doctor right now I would, not to mention I do not have a car either. I just walk on campus because everyhing is close, but the doc isnt close. Anyways I know I probably have Peyronies Disease because it seems the dent is getting worse and also ive never read about a gowing dent that wasnt associated with Peyronies Disease. Anyways I just posted to see some thoguths on it, I know nobody can tell me what I have. Thanks

Tim468

Dear HCTB

There are ways to solve this problem. My hunch is that you have not thought of them, and also that you are probably isolated with your problem and not able to enlist help. If you have a family doctor with whom you have had ANY longterm relationship, or if you have a friend who knows a doc, or whose dad is a doc - somehow you have to get someone lobbying for you. To call and say "This poor kid might have Peyronie's Disease, and I know you are gonna lose a pro-fee on him, but could you do me a favor and see him in your clinic?"

We (docs) do this for people ALL THE TIME. I often waive my fee when I am asked (nicely) by someone who I know, and when it is appropriate (an example - a social worker at a local hospice tells me that a friend just got laid off and her kid is wheezing, and would I be able to help them out even though they do not have health insurance - I did.)

Another example - a campus clinic may have connections to a medical center.

Another example - a social worker with a hospital may be able to tap into a free-care fund to get your visit covered.

There are ways to solve this problem, just like there are ways to solve the Peyronies Disease. Very similar in that in both cases, we may not be talking about an ideal "solution" (i.e. you may have to pay something out of pocket; and/or your Peyronies Disease may get better but not go away).

In either event, it seems that you have not been able to put the kind of focused attention into solving this problem that you need to be putting into it. You have listed external causes for that, but I think that we are all often held back by internal limits far more than external limits. If you have to pay out of pocket, get a job to make extra money (a Starbucks employee will routinely get health benefits, for example), or DO WHAT IT TAKES to get help and to get better - then DO IT!

You are right that we cannot tell you what you have, but if you want some thoughts on it - there you have it; my thoughts! I hope that you can take charge of this and make some moves on your life that help you.

Tim
52, Peyronies Disease for 30 years, upward curve and some new lesions.

howcanthisbe

thanks Tim. Thats a good idea about the job, I know I use to work at home depot and after 90 days you get health insurance. I will see if any jobs offer the same type deal around where I live. I do not know one single person in this town as im new here and just started school 2 months back. Im working on meeting new people so im not sure what I can do right now. I will look into the job thing though. Thanks

csup

Well, it's been 7 weeks since my inguinal hernia surgery, and 6 weeks since I first noticed the sorness and then the lump in my penis near the base. I have not had any sex acts that were rough enough to cause this malady. I saw my surgen today to ask about possible trauma to the penis during the operation (as I was knocked out). He explained how they drape off the area, and that he is very carefull to not involve any of the uro tract organs in a hernia op. He told me that even if he did clamp the penis, this would not cause Peyronies Disease. Who knows, he is the doctor. I think a strongly applied clamp could cause some sort of damage. I know it hurts just thinking about it. LOL. So it remains a mystery as to why this disease came about. Only thing to do now is apply damage control. crs

Hawk

What a incredible statement from someone that probably knows little to nothing about Peyronies Disease.  A broken capillary or two could trigger Peyronie's in a person prone to the disease.  To say it is unlikely, or even "not known" to cause Peyronies Disease is one thing, but to say "It would not cause" reveals something about him as a doctor that is less than admirable in my opinion.

I think as an educational endeavor, you would have a high likelihood of being able to convince him of the possibility, if he is willing to let you apply a clamp.
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

Old Man

csup:

I agree with Hawk's statement. Who knows what can happen by applying any force to the penis. Having had many operations myself, remaining awake during some and observed what happens in an operating room, I know the drill. Some doctors play loud music, some even watched TV during lulls in the surgery and others laughed and talked all through the procedure. I experienced some trauma to my penis during my prostatectomy and the uro surgeon explained it all to me and apologized for what happened, but I still had a bout with Peyronies Disease as a result.

So, bottom line of what I am saying is this, who knows what happened while you were asleep during the operation. As Hawk says, even the smallest microtrauma can and will cause further damage as the body tried to heal itself.

I stongly urge you to seek out one of the best uros you can find that has experience with Peyronies Disease and get an appointment with him ASAP. The wait and see attitude does not cut it in the Peyronies Disease world. Early action is always the best medicine in any situation, especially Peyronies Disease.

Sorry that you are having this problem, but hang in there, you are not alone!

Sincerely, Old Man

Age 92. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after
stage four radical prostatectomy in 1995, Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents.
Three more stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries too.

csup

Old Man, Hawk,
I already have an appointment set to see a new Uro in less than 2 weeks. If he is not forward thinking, then I will find another, or another after that. My statement on damage control did not mean I was just going to sit back and let this thing take total control. I will find a way to win in the end. Too bad drinking several beers will not cure this like it used to do for my colds. LOL.

Hawk, If you meant to let me place a clamp on the surgen's um..., I would consider asking him to try it, but I don't plan on seeing him again. If my other side develops into a hernia, I will find another surgen, and this time do some research on him first. crs

Liam

If the only time a symptom presents is during an erection but the doctor never examines during an erection, he may never see the problem.

Tim,

I respect your opinion and I appear to be the odd man out on the forum on this subject ;).  I just find it hard to understand how a doctor of urology cannot detect a physical abnormality in the penis when he or she is supposed to be looking for it.  I can also think of several reasons a patient might perceive a dent other than Peyronies Disease.  As a layman, reading the onset and description of the symptoms, thrombophlebitis is plausible.  

The main reason I hold out multiple conditions causing penile deformity is "spontaneous recovery".  I believe 100% of the "recoveries" are something other than Peyronies Disease.  Another reason for this hypothesis is the differences in symptoms.  Other than the location, symptoms are not close in some cases.

I have tried to explain my thoughts in this way.  The bend in the penis is not the disease.  It is a symptom of a fibrotic disease.  The disease is systemic, but, may manifest in just one or in several locations including the penis, palms, knuckles, soles of feet, and the shoulders.  When the disease involves the penis, it is Peyronies Disease.

I am honestly not trying to be argumentative.  I think by discussing we will better understand the disease.

I hope my assessment is wrong.  I would love a spontaneous recovery.

BTW, for the new members, I have had 2 frozen shoulders and Dupuytren's as well as Peyronies Disease.

Sorry if I'm rambling.
"I don't ask why patients lie, I just assume they all do."
House

Liam

Here is a quote from http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/ate/menshealth/205680.html offering an alternative diagnosis :


QuoteMy husband has a prominent vein on his penis






Question

My husband recently discovered what appears to be a hardened vein on the side of his penis. The vein itself is only about 1- to 2 inches long and is not painful. It feels hard to the touch even when his penis is flaccid, and is more prominent when his penis is erect.

His GP has told him there is nothing wrong, but we are puzzled as to why this has appeared almost overnight. Also, is there anything that can be done or will the vein gradually reduce in prominence over time?

Answer

I think it is very likely that your husband has something completely benign known as lymphangiosclerosis. This is a hardened lymph vessel rather than a vein, although it is similar in shape and appearance except that it tends to be less blue in colour. It feels hard to the touch even when the penis is flaccid and will be more prominent during an erection.

This is not an uncommon symptom and it tends to happen following more regular or vigorous sexual intercourse in younger men.

Provided your husband is functioning normally in every other respect, there is no need for him to worry unduly about this linear hardening. It will almost certainly resolve spontaneously by itself over the next few days or weeks.

In the meantime gentle well-lubricated lovemaking is to be recommended.

If there are any other changes that you have noticed or if things change in any way, I'd go back to your GP or local genitourinary medicine (GUM) clinic for further advice.

Yours sincerely

The Medical Team




"I don't ask why patients lie, I just assume they all do."
House

Tim468

I hate it when I post a really long and thoughtful responding post on a topic and then it says "Sorry! You cannot post new topics to this board!" The worst part is that when I hit back up, the post is gone forever...


Sucks to be me...  :-\

Tim
52, Peyronies Disease for 30 years, upward curve and some new lesions.

Liam

Tim,

That's just the forum's way of leveling the playing field for a debate between us. ;)

Liam
"I don't ask why patients lie, I just assume they all do."
House

Angus


   I've lost post text too when gremlins attack, and it's frustrating. Try running a "backup"... before hitting "post" or "preview", I select all the text (highlight) and right-click-copy, and I have a backup that stays on the computer clipboard unless I have to re-boot. I've also started keeping a Word blank document on the desktop that I'll compose a post in and save. Then if there's a major computer or internet lockup, I can still reboot, come back online and copy the Word doc into a new post. When I'd lose a post to cyber-gremlins, I always felt it was like a digital toilet flush... watching words go down the drain with no way to stop it  ;D.

Tim468

Yeah, well Liam, you were knocked down and counted out - then saved by the bell!  ;D

Tim
52, Peyronies Disease for 30 years, upward curve and some new lesions.

Liam

Yo,  Cut me, Mick!
"I don't ask why patients lie, I just assume they all do."
House

Liam

Maybe new info for some.

Peyronie's disease and erectile dysfunction: Current understanding and future direction

Levine Laurence A

http://www.indianjurol.com/article.asp?issn=0970-1591;year=2006;volume=22;issue=3;spage=246;epage=250;aulast=Levine
"I don't ask why patients lie, I just assume they all do."
House

Hawk

Excellent article.  I notice he concurs (with me)  ;D  That penile injections can worsen Peyronies Disease.
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

ComeBacKid

I found this article pretty interesting.  One thing that jumped out at me is that they are finally recgonizing peyronies to be more common, the highest percentage I have seen thus far at 10%, personally I've always thought it was more like 13%, but it gets wishy washy with congenital curvature, and what exactly is peyronies.  

I also had thought that Dr. Levine had stated using viagra may actually help peyronies, because of the nitric oxide in it, I did not see that in the article but I may have missed that, my eyes are getting tired...


PS- Hawk I've always concurred with you, since Dr. Levine agrees with us, this must mean we could be MDs  :D

Dr.P.D.Killer

So...I have been succesfull to experiment and read about P.D. and how to kill it.

I'm going to help all you cats out there that have this condition because the doctors or "Specialists" I have seen couldn't do anything for me...and took $900.00 from my insurance company for what I deem as pretty useless advice.

1.  GET YOUR BLOOD TESTED...YOU HAVE AN ABNORMALITY WITHIN YOUR BLOOD IF YOU HAVE P.D.

2.  CUT YOUR DIET TO SUPER LOW CHOLESTROL INTAKE.

3.  VITAMIN E is OKAY...I overloaded on the stuff and it made me sick...so don't overload on it.

4.  If you are using the Jes Extender....BE VERY CAREFUL...IT DOES HELP ALL MEN WITH P.D. to straighten the penis...I know I have used 1 for 2 years...only to see better condition of my penis BUT it also gave me a double inguinal hernia because it pulls the abdominal muscle just 2 inches above your best friend.

5.  NEPRINOL - 2 at night; every night and 1-2 pills after a meal = SUPER MEASURABLE RESULTS while taking no more than 1000 mg of Vitamin E (with meals) each day. No Rx Needed - Side effects: Headaches & weight loss and possibly low blood pressure....so throw caution to the wind with this product. Not FDA approved...but it has worked for me...

6.  MASTURBATION = I don't give a damn what anybody has said about this topic...SEX and Masturbation will AGITATE P.D. so when you do it...use a different 'style' to keep your best friend as straight as possible...if you have SEX...don't be stupid...and put your girl on top of you if your red rooster keeps coming out of her because you are not Jhonny Holmes...play it cool...as Duane Allman would say "Eat A Peach for Peace"...then do less work...and ride 'conservatively'...if at all possible eat a peach; twice then ride...your woman won't care either way...

7.  Depending on your curvature...if you are in a sexual relationship...have your woman give YOU oral sex vs regular sex until your P.D. can begin to resolve on it's own using the "Dr.P.D.Killer" Prescription I'm writting about...any doctor who is reading this can take a walk because you guys are just too afraid to get sued for mal practice...and you don't have this problem so it's easy for you to grab your $1000.00 pay checks for a pretty worthless prognosis.

8.  Oils - I forget which oil worked best for me but there are oils that you should use on the area that is scared...

9.  You should take all of this on a daily basis...for about 8 months...I would say have your woman give you oral sex for a solid 4 months...if she's going to complain about this...I guess a 're-evaluation' should be in order because; gentlemen...what we have...CAN BE RESOLVED...but not if the person we are with are going to be narcissistic, selfish beings...who only care about themselves...none of my business...I'm just telling you all what I did and trying to save you all 9,000 worth of research...because it's my Christmas present to ALL OF YOU CATS WHO ARE GOING THROUGH WHAT I WENT THROUGH..

10...Finally....from my research you should be checked for anti-immune diseases...no that doesn't mean you have AIDS or anything...it just means your body is pumping out a chemical imbalance of some sort similar to guys who are balding...you may also have patches of hair that do not grow hair...all signs pointing to why you need to get your blood tested.

Last but not least...having P.D. is like having severe arthritis of your penis...there are ways to treat it...Potaba and Vitamin E...doesn't work...and all these doctors who say that it does...are giving you a conservative treatment...

Oh yea...you need to buy PURE vitamin E...not the junk from GNC or Wal-Mart...you have to spend money for the best stuff...and most importantly..if you can read...you should invest more time in understanding the Cause and Effect of what has happened to you...and mentally...get back in the game...not having sex for a year won't kill you...and those of you who think it will....should revisit what is more important in life...taking a sabbitical from activities that will AGITATE your problem both logical and wise...besides...review my Rx...getting head for 4 months is not a bad deal...

Gentleman.

Enjoy being.

Enjoy life.

Be Kind.

Free yourself from hate, anger, and racism.

Happy Holidays to you all.

All the best - - - Dr. P.D. Killer  

Hawk

OK cat, let me see if I understand your prescription:

1. Have your blood checked! - Is that for anything in particular or just to see if you have some?  All my blood tests are fine. ???

2. Eat low cholesterol - Me and many others on the forum do that, and my blood cholesterol; is very low. ???

3. Vit E is OK - then why did you say "Vitamin E...doesn't work..." down near the bottom of your post?  You then said buy the pure stuff.  Pure synthetic, pure d-alpha, pure mixed tocopherols, PURE WHAT ???

4. A jess extender will work if you use enough tension to pull your abdominal muscles into a double hernia - wouldn't it be cheaper to just duct tape a dumb bell to the end of it?  :o

5. Nepinrol, take at night and after every meal ...side effects weight loss, low BP, headaches - Don't the manufactures of all such enzymes recommend they be taken on an empty stomach so their impact will not be lost digesting food?

6. No rough sex, give oral sex - I understand this one  :-*

7. Recieve oral sex - I understand this one too  ;D

8. Rub oils of unknown origin on your scar - I have olive oil, Quaker State (10w-30), linseed oil, and PAM on hand.  Is there a preference or will any of these work fine ???

9. If you wife starts slacking off on her oral sex duties kick her out and find a new woman - That seems a bit harsh here during the holidays, especially after you made me commit to "Free yourself from hate, anger, and racism."  :'(

10. Check yourself for autoimmune diseases - What do we do if we find we have some ???  I did check myself and I found one. Its called Peyronies Disease !!! So, what do I do about that one.  Let me guess, I start back at number 1.   ::)

PS: I thank you because you did brighten my day.  ;)  Being specific with your prescription and giving some background would have helped.
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

Liam

Interesting "Doc" and an interesting post.  I'm not sure about this being a cure....

But, I think it is basically sound advice presented in a colorful format.  

*Low cholesterol is good.  High cholesterol has been noted here as one of the "risk factors" for Peyronies Disease

*Pure vitamin E has been recommended on this site by some of our members who are well read in this area

*Neprinol has been given a tentative nod as have a few enzymes

*Avoiding trauma has been kind of an anthem here for most.  Your "Christmas present" is one alternative (and a fun one at that) for taking it easy on the "little soldier".  Check the website for a great discussion on sexual intimacy

*Rico recommends arnica oil and maybe has a few others that he could share  (maybe peppermint for the holiday present mentioned above  ;)).


I'm not sure exactly what blood test should be run, though.  I have blood test run every three months.  What should they look for?

Can you tell us your history with Peyronies Disease.  When did you get it?  What were your symptoms?  How long did you have it?  

What is your opinion of a VED as compared to traction?

Thanks for your post.

Liam
"I don't ask why patients lie, I just assume they all do."
House

Liam

One of the leading "risk factors/indicators/comorbidities" for Peyronies Disease has been diabetes.  This news is very interesting and very exciting.  Although not a direct link to Peyronies Disease, this may prove to be a major medical breakthrough and I feel deserves our attention.  It may even indirectly prove of help to us (as guys with Peyronies Disease) someday.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a598ab5d1bf&k=63970
excerpt
QuoteThey also conclude that there are far more similarities than previously thought between Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes, and that nerves likely play a role in other chronic inflammatory conditions, such as asthma and Crohn's disease
and Peyronies Disease?

"I don't ask why patients lie, I just assume they all do."
House

George999

Fascinating posts by the 'doc' and Liam!  And an interesting intersection of sorts.  The concept of immune system issues which just happens to have some commonality with diabetes.  It makes one wonder just what the ramifications of having elevated blood sugar levels are EVEN if they are at a sub-diabetic level.  Certainly insulin resistance, however subtle, could along with the things mentioned by the 'doc', indicate something going wrong on the immune system level.  Also a very interesting take by the 'doc' on Neprinol.  I used it for a long time, but only one capsule per day due to the cost and concern about potential side effects and also some very real distrust of Arthur Andrew organization (I suspect them of 'astroturfing', the practice of posting phony success stories in order to promote their product).  But I have to admit, I did notice some seemingly positive effects from the amount I was taking.  I have a stash of Neprinol left.  I will probably give it another try.  As for Vitamin E, I don't know what 'side effects' the 'doc' is referring to, but I know that if you take over 800IU, you should be taking it in a 'stack' with other components or you WILL get side effects.  I have been taking 2000IU for some time now with zero side effects, but I take other stuff to deal with the side effects.  After trying close to 30 different supplements, I am finding Vitamin E most useful.  And GNC along with many other suppliers offer both el cheapo and premium full spectrum products, so I think singling out GNC for selling cheap E is a bit unfair (by the way, I am not a GNC customer and generally don't use their products).  I won't comment on Wal-Mart, but I suspect that most of what they sell is JUNK.  Thats what they are famous for and people love them for it.  Ginkgo also seems to be helping and I also have great expectations that VasoFlow will be very helpful.  But now I am having to take a second look at Neprinol in this combination.  I have to admit, I have always been impressed with the ingredients in Neprinol, but I have also read some cautionary stuff in research articles as to the use of enzymes.  Like NO they can be a double edged sword.  Certainly one thing to beware of with Neprinol, if you get it in your lungs via reflux or whatever, its nasty stuff and can land you in the hospital.  So I would certainly be hesitant at taking it at night again (which I was doing before learning of these cases).  But there is a lot of good stuff here even if it is off topic for this thread (sorry Hawk!).  I would very much like to see some LEGITIMATE third party research on the Neprinol.  I don't have a whole lot of trust in unverified testimonials when extremely high priced supplements are involved and massive doses are recommended.  So sorry, but I remain a skeptic on that one.  I will continue to trust research and personal experience over testimonials.  But one thing I agree with the 'doc' about ... this disease can be beaten, my personal experience tells me that, and I would whole heartedly concur without reservation with much of his advice.  Right now I am eating mostly fruit and vegetables in five small meals per day, watching my caloric intake with carefully planned weight loss underway, a reasonable amount of daily treadmill activity, and scrupulously avoiding any additional trauma to my penis, however mild.  And as I have stated in numerous other posts, I am seeing success.

- George

Hawk

I have an idea.  Why don't we refer to that cat as Peyronies Disease Killer or just Killer.  The term "Doc" is pretty far fetched and possibly misleading.

I actually did not take his post as either legitimate or serious.  
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

Liam

I consider my intake of sugar extreme prior to diagnosis with frozen shoulder, Peyronies Disease, and Dup's.  I also had high cholesterol.  I have always wondered if there was a link.  Now my sugar intake is L O W and I'm eating very, very low fat (plus 10mg Crestor)!  :::closing the barn door after the horse got out:::

There is a larger condition than Peyronies Disease and the other fibrotic conditions.  I hope I live long enough for someone to put it all together.

BTW, I used to smoke,too.  They say that increases the risk for Peyronies Disease.  I believe there may be a correlation without a causal relationship.  Name a disease and smoking is on the "factors" list.  Smoking just makes an easy target.
"I don't ask why patients lie, I just assume they all do."
House

ComeBacKid

What were the details of your improvments from traction, how much size did you gain- lenght, width etc...  We had a fellow on here doing traction, WantItStr8, haven't heard from him in awhile, by now he should have seen at least an inch gain if not two according to that website, I highly doubt he has seen this.  I have not heard from one single person that the traction has done anything for them at all whatsoever.  Please enlighten me with the details!


Dr.P.D.Killer


To Mr. "Hawk",

Could you be any more over analytical...we are not in trial, councilor, so take it easy....I'm guessing you must be in your 40's to 50's from the tone of your reply.

So for all of you other Gents; who would like to keep the Rx in tune let's go over Mr. Hawk's reply with my counter reply so I may demystify, Mr. Hawk so he may find more solace in the Rx.

1. Have your blood checked! - Is that for anything in particular or just to see if you have some?  All my blood tests are fine.

Dr.P.D.Killer: Mr. Hawk, we live in the age of the internet...all you have to do is type in "Blood Exam Peyronie's Disease" and see what surfaces but in the holiday spirit you want to attain a ION Panel.

Attain info on what the normative levels are for:

Glucose, Carbon Dioxide, Sodium, Potassium, Chloride, Phosphate, Calcium, Magnesium, Serum Iron, BUN, etc.  After your ION Panel if anything is falling out of range try to fix the problem within the best of your ability / control.


2. Eat low cholesterol - Me and many others on the forum do that, and my blood cholesterol; is very low.

Dr.P.D.Killer: Good.  From my learnings, Peyronie's Disease (at least for my case) was in part a very large Fibroid Problem that happened to be located on my penis...chances are it's the same for many men out there...so this would be the fulcrum point of the all variables on the P.D. scale...learn more about Fibrosis and how to control it; and you will see a change in your P.D. condition for the better.

3. Vit E is OK - then why did you say "Vitamin E...doesn't work..." down near the bottom of your post?  You then said buy the pure stuff.  Pure synthetic, pure d-alpha, pure mixed tocopherols, PURE WHAT

Dr. P.D. Killer: I stated "PURE VITAMIN E" there is a difference between the Vitamin E you purchase at Wal Mart vs attaining the PURE Vitamin E...which again you can do a quick I-Net search for as I just did for you: http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oGkjngzIRFJIMATiZXNyoA?p=pure+vitamin+E+capsules&ei=UTF-8&fr=slv1-msgr&x=wrt

I actually don't take Vitamin E anymore but I believe the formula I did take was an E, A, C + Selenium gel tab. I had taken that for about 3 years...until the Jes Extender and began to help along with the oil along with the Neprinol...which leads me to your next question...


4. A jess extender will work if you use enough tension to pull your abdominal muscles into a double hernia - wouldn't it be cheaper to just duct tape a dumb bell to the end of it?  

Dr. P.D.Killer: Hmmm...I would say, don't quit your day job as an attorney if you wish to pursue a career in comedy...not very humorous and I had a double inguinal hernia surgery due to the Jes Extender so there are other men using that product, Mr. Hawk, and it is a relevent statement because knowledge is power...at any rate...the extender; by far; did show measurable results and improvements.  The downside is that it was painful to use each night and that it can cause your inner ab lining to promote wear and tear to allow an inguinal hernia to take it's course of action on a male; adult body.

5. Nepinrol, take at night and after every meal ...side effects weight loss, low BP, headaches - Don't the manufactures of all such enzymes recommend they be taken on an empty stomach so their impact will not be lost digesting food?

Dr.P.D.Killer: Correct.  Take the Neprinol 1 hour after each meal...or at bed time...not with your meal and not directly after your meal.  

6. No rough sex, give oral sex - I understand this one  

7. Receive oral sex - I understand this one too  

Dr. P.D. Killer - Thank God.

8. Rub oils of unknown origin on your scar - I have olive oil, Quaker State (10w-30), linseed oil, and PAM on hand.  Is there a preference or will any of these work fine

Quaker State for you, Mr. Hawk, dump an entire keg on you and that should do the trick For all others, the best oil to use is Castor Oil.

9. If you wife starts slacking off on her oral sex duties kick her out and find a new woman - That seems a bit harsh here during the holidays, especially after you made me commit to "Free yourself from hate, anger, and racism."  

Dr. P.D.Killer: I'm glad I'm not an Esquire at large...it's amazing how you can convolute something and misrepresent it; to your own personal satisfaction; that doesn't actually...prove that you did anything... other than misevaluate some content provided to you and represent it back to a general audience to convey a tone and communication that I never stated.

So it is not with out logic; nor reason; nor case studies by other cats (sorry for the slang Mr. Hawk, I'm only 19 years old so please do bare with my choice of verbiage I wish to use because I'm not my father) but at any rate all the other cats or gents who have had any relationship problems due to their P.D. problem should understand that it can be corrected but needs for total understanding that physical activity on the penis can cause it to become worse...and if someone is not going to understand that and play their narcissistic card on you, well then be so forth advised to evaluate the situation and know that you; are not alone; and that the operative action for better days ahead is: Communication; Understanding and perhaps a period of refraining from your marital or bachelor banging quota duties.  As for the added 'free yourself from racism/ hate / etc.' I never stated to leave your wife or lover...Convolution; and misrepresenting communication, yet again...that outputs your interpretation which isn't remotely close to what I had stated...


10. Check yourself for autoimmune diseases - What do we do if we find we have some   I did check myself and I found one. Its called Peyronies Disease !!! So, what do I do about that one.  Let me guess, I start back at number 1.    

Dr.P.D.Killer: Hmmm. Show me an article or a source, since you love to be so overly precise about every little detail that specifies that P.D. is an autoimmune disease and not correlated to an autoimmune disease...convolution again...you must like a lot of mixed drinks to keep mixing everything to whatever it is you want it to be...that's interesting...or not...but Mr. Hawk...perhaps you should learn to relax a little more rather than being so pretentious...until then, gents and cats I'm going to keep drinking a ton of beer, enjoying my college years and hope that this information has helped you...

PS: I thank you because you did brighten my day.    Being specific with your prescription and giving some background would have helped


Dr. P.D.Killer: For the other gents who wanted to know more about me: I have had Peyronies Disease for the past 5 years, diagnosed it myself by researching WebMD, went to see a board certified Urologist who didn't do anything for me except charge my insurance $1,000; and both my parents had past in a car accident; I have been working 3 jobs, putting myself through college; paying my bills and learning as much as I am able to about the ailment that was handed to me via fate...I researched and devoted all my time and effort to beat P.D. which included a lot of praying too...and I can honestly say that after 5 years of all my work...the P.D. scar has gone away, the curvature of my penis is no more than a curvature of any normal penis and the Jes Extender did give me an extra 1.5 inches, but like I said I had to have a double inguinal hernia so it's been a battle field down south but just like history...the north...being my mind....has won the battle...I believe I have answered all your questions with the exception of one gent who specified I had never mentioned the side effects of taking too much Vitamin E...which is an easy one for me to answer it's HYPERCAUGABILITY...as for the Neprinol....it works...take some Garlic with it which should help to off set some of the side effects...and yes it's very expensive...but there are 2 types of people...those who do and those over analyze; and ponder...

You cats take it easy...and Mr. Hawk...I have a special Rx just for you:

Don't drink mixed drinks...just keep it straight...and on the rocks...should help you to be a better receiver of information...and re-iterator of information.

Oh and to anybody other than Mr. Hawk who believes I am a real doctor, I apologize but I am not...it's just a figure of speech just like picking up the Real Yellow Pages sitting in your kitchen and looking up the P.C. Doctor...and by the way...there is a grand difference between an Ophthalmologist, Mr. Hawk, and an Optometrist...one went to Medical School and the other did not; yet they are both called doctors, case in point....just relax, cat...listen to more Jerry Garcia...it will do you a world of good...

Cheers, gents.



Hawk

Hi Killer,

I rather enjoyed your respectable (not respectful) reply and i am sure others will too.

Welcome to the forum.  Thanks for the information and rest assured, I am every bit as old as you estimated.  Which makes us even on guessing each others ages  ;)

You must admit that your first post was anything but informative.  While my desire for facts seems to disagree with you, it did produce the intended effect so I guess it performed a valuable service after all.

I am very glad to hear your Peyronies Disease resolved.  If you actually had Peyronies Disease, I think it gives some hope to other young men of which several are on this forum.  It also puts your results in perspective since the reversal rate is much better for younger men, especially if the Peyronies Disease is the result of an accident.  You did not mention the likely onset of your Peyronies Disease and I am sure several here, including me are interested in that.  Having Peyronies Disease at 15 is beyond strange and it it is normal to question if you every actually had Peyronies Disease.

For what its worth, I do salute your work ethic and self-sufficiency.

Regards  
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

Liam

PDK,

Quotewhich is an easy one for me to answer it's HYPERCAUGABILITY

Did you mean hypercoagulability (thanks Google)?  Vitamin E should have had the opposite effect (thinning the blood).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8088011&dopt=Abstract


I now have to flog my dead horse.  You were no older than 16 at onset and it resolved itself.  It was not Peyronies Disease.  This is my opinion and has been.  Your recipe for recovery couldn't hurt.  But, it will not cure Peyronies Disease.  

I'm glad you don't have a curve or a hard spot any more.  

I think the tenor of your post is what ruffled feathers.  Guys here would love to find a cure.  When someone new comes on a forum touting a cure, as if it is so easy,.....well...... I, myself, had to take a breath before I posted.  I got a chuckle from Hawks post because I was thinking many of the same things.  

I believe you were attempting humor.  That is very tricky in writing.  Many times things I have written in jest have been taken seriously.  Just remember how you felt when you first noticed you had a problem and put yourself in the readers position.  That should help you determine the "voice" of your posts.

Although, as I said, I don't believe you had Peyronies Disease.  You did have penile curvature and I think you have a right to be here.  Just read more of what has already been written here.  Your perspective might change on Peyronies Disease.  Mine has.

Liam
"I don't ask why patients lie, I just assume they all do."
House

Tim468

Well, "doc", FWIW it was obvious what your general age was too.

Although I too applaud your self sufficiency, and "can do" attitude, it is also a fact that:

1) Peyronies Disease resolves spontaneously, and this may happen more in the young man than older man (where causes may be more often related to cellular aging processes). Therefore, all of the things that you report as having been "fixed" by you, may represent epiphenomena.

2) There are no data to suggest that a metabolic panel (what you call an "ION") contain any data that, when corrected, lead to correction of Peyronies Disease. The only possible exception is the diagnosis of diabetes, which is usually made clinically, not (first) by lab tests.

3) The statement " Show me an article or a source... that specifies that P.D. is an autoimmune disease and not correlated to an autoimmune disease." makes no grammatical sense, so I cannot tell if you are saying it is or is not related to autoimmune disease. In fact, some Peyronies Disease is related to HLA markers for autoimmune disase, and this is an active area of research. I cannot tell if that agrees or disagrees with your statements, since what you think is not as clearly stated as you might imagine.

4) You said "I would say have your woman give you oral sex for a solid 4 months...if she's going to complain about this...I guess a 're-evaluation' should be in order because; gentlemen...what we have...CAN BE RESOLVED...but not if the person we are with are going to be narcissistic, selfish beings...who only care about themselves...none of my business....". It is not much of a stretch, or does it represent a misreading to see that statement as selfish and narcissistic itself. You then want to have it be that Hawk "misread" your intent with those words - to me it seems you don't want to own your words. ::shrug::  The statement comes across as stupid, and when one writes words that seem stupid, one should not be surprised that all their other words are devalued as well.

I am glad that you are better. If you had read here a while, you might have learned how many men here have done the things that you have (although they have not yet reported inducing an inguinal hernia by the overagressive use of a penis stretching device), and yet not found a "cure" as have you. An anecdote is not the same thing as science - we are all interested in reading about men who get better - so I hope that one thing you take away from here is a better sense of where your true power lies on this earth, and where you may not have exerted as much control as you imagine.

Tim
52, Peyronies Disease for 30 years, upward curve and some new lesions.

Mick

Tim:

Brilliant!!

Mick

Old Man

Note to all:

My thanks and kudos to Dr. Tim, Hawk, Mick and last of all, but not least Liam for your posts. Having read your posts relieves me of having to put in my two cents worth!

My, how good it would feel to be young again at 19, and full of piss and vinegar!

Regards, to Dr. P.D. Killer

Old Man
Age 92. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after
stage four radical prostatectomy in 1995, Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents.
Three more stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries too.

Larry H

Old Man, my very good friend, I generally agree with your statement about being 19 again and full of piss and vinegar. However, if I had to give up maturity and the wisdom that develops from maturity I don't think I would make the trade.

My Best,

Larry

Old Man

Larry H:

TOUCHE'

I meant only in body! Would not like to give up all my knowledge and experience learned from the "School of Hard Knocks" just to be young again.

Old Man
Age 92. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after
stage four radical prostatectomy in 1995, Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents.
Three more stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries too.

Barry

WOW!

I could guess that our young newbie poster gets the point.

What an interesting well-articulated gang bang that was! As soon as my eyes stop bleeding I think I'll wrap my head in duct tape so my brain doesn't explode.

Regards,

Barry

myrddin

These last posts gave me so many laughs, they need to be moved to the "On the Light Side" thread.

percival

As the penis hangs outside the body, its temperature is presumably slightly below body temperature. The testicles are similarly situated, and it is known that their lower temperature optimises sperm production. Could it be that penile plaque formation is encouraged by lower temperature also?
This seems an obvious point, yet I have not seen it mentioned elsewhere - except using heat treatment as an alternative cure.
Percival

Bob Peyron

I have a question. Should I continue taking my Vitamin C supplements with the symptoms I described below (gummy "inside" going down the shaft). Is that even collagen?

Liam

Vitamin C is ok unless you are taking a truck load of it.  If you take a little too much you will just pass it as waste.  (I know this is not a highly technical description)

Peyronies Disease is hardness in the penis.  "Gummy" could mean edema (fluid) or fat.  It could mean damage to your blood vessels or lymph system in the penis.  It is almost certainly not Peyronies Disease.  

You may be obsessing a little on this.  I've been there myself.  There is probably nothing wrong that can't be fixed easily.  I promise you will be relieved after a trip to the urologist.  :)

Liam
"I don't ask why patients lie, I just assume they all do."
House

Bob Peyron

The part that worries me is the numbness. It increases from time to time and the head feels like it's 25% styrofoam now in texture. The whole thing feels the same as frostbite - kind of "far-away" feeling. It's seriously so numb and different-acting that it feels foreign. I'm going to see an American doctor this time who won't send me away with reassurement like the first one. Anyway I'll be going to the urologist in two days so thank you and sorry to worry ad infinitum on this board.

Pat

I was reading on another Peyronies Disease forum that there is evidence that Peyronies Disease could be linked to beta blockers. It so happens that my onset with Peyronies Disease came about the time I began taking blood pressure medicine.  I began taking atenolol (which is a beta blocker). I didn't notice the Peyronies Disease until several months later, but I was experiencing a lack of sex drive.  I switched medicine to another blood pressure medicine which is not a beta blocker. The sex drive is still low, and I figure it's the medicine. It's recommended that you never stop taking blood pressure medicine cold turkey, so I will talk to my doctor to see if I can ween myself off the stuff to see if the sex drive returns.  I doubt if the Peyronies Disease will go away though.  But who knows?  Anyway, does anyone have a similar story?  Just to set the record straight, I never had an injury to my penis, so that was never the cause of the Peyronies Disease.

George999

Pat, my Peyronies also started while on a beta blocker (metoprolol).  I also developed Plantar Fasciitis in BOTH feet while on the beta blocker.  Once I got the doc to stop the beta blocker, the Plantar Fasciitis cleared up completely, but, of course, not the Peyronies, although there are reports of cases where the Peyronies has cleared up as well once the beta blocker is discontinued.  I don't know what you are currently taking for your blood pressure, but I can tell you that if you have the common 'high renin" type  of hypertension, the best medication hands down is Cozaar (losartan) or Hyzaar.  These are expensive since they are not yet available in generic, but they are absolutely top notch with low side effects and high level of effectiveness.  They also are active against TGF-beta-1 which means they can actually be helpful in treating your Peyronies as well as your hypertension.  Next best choice at this point would probably be lisinopril.  Talk to your doctor.

- George

Pat

Thanks George.  I am currently on lisinopril.  It seems that we should have been forwarned of the possible Peyronies side effect of beta blockers. What a price to pay for taking doctor's advise.

PJ

Seriously? I was on a beta blocker when this all started. My injury had happened months maybe even close to a year (I think 9 earlier), no pain, no symptoms. The peyronies began while I was on a beta blocker which is one of the things my docter tried for migraines.

George999

The problem with beta blockers is their mode of action.  Other hypertension drugs like ACE-Inhibitors, ARBs and RIs lower blood pressure by uniformly dilating the vascular system by acting on Renin, Angiotensin, or Angiotensin Receptors.  Beta blockers work differently by acting on Beta Receptors.  Beta Receptors are used by the body to redirect blood flow AND for other purposes (like collagen production - hello? http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=370713&tools=bot).  So while the net effect of a Beta Blocker is reduced blood pressure (through altered heart rate as much as through vascular dilation), they mess with far too many physiological issues for me to be comfortable with them.   ALL these things I learned after my Peyronies problem.  They are things the docs don't tell you overtly and while Peyronies is not listed as being among the recognized side effects, other suspicious things are (like cold extremities - lack of sufficient blood flow .. hello?)  And they are now suspected of causing diabetes..  I believe the only reason for Beta Blockers becoming so popular is that they are cardio protective in many cases.  But I suspect that CoQ10 is nearly as effective for that purpose and is probably much safer.  Certainly I will never take Beta Blockers again.  But doctors still seem to be prescribing them for all kinds of things even though in many cases there are safer alternatives.

Lisinopril is a great drug for hypertension, no doubt about that, and it shouldn't cause significant sex drive issues.  Cozaar is a better drug with fewer side effects and now, an even better drug, Rasilez, is on the way, but not yet approved for mainstream use (you have to be a hypertensive diabetic to get it now).  If you are having sex drive issues with lisinopril, I really doubt that it is the lisinopril.  You might want to check out a couple of really great supplements.  One is Horny Goat Weed and the other is Maca.  I consider both of those to be very safe and also very effective at stimulating ones libido.  But stay away from things like Yohimbe (which is actually an Alpha Blocker), its potential side effects are nastier than those of Beta Blockers and especially if you have hypertension.

- George

George999

Stress has been mentioned a number of times in relation to Peyronies.  In fact it is very well known and generally acknowleged that stress of various kinds (mental, physical, etc.) causes the body to release Cortisol.  But what I just discovered is that elevated Cortisol causes an increase in Arginase among other nasty things http://ajpgi.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/272/3/G474 ... pretty interesting stuff!

- George

Fighter

Hi George,
I think there is some kind of link out there with stress and Peyronies Disease? Now that when I look back I was under a tremendous amount of stress. I don't remember injuring my penis and I was not having wild sex but I do remember having a lot of stress during the time when I discovered I had Peyronies Disease. Interesting...