Progression of Peyronie's Disease

[Tim468]

Ttdtpafl,

As advised before, it would behoove you to spend some time reading here on the "Child Boards" to get caught up on what's what.

Pentox is not for pain, it is to reverse the effects of TGF-Beta1.

Tim

[Angus]

I am putting a direct link to the "Newly Diagnosed" or "Child Boards" below. These are highlights of all topics arranged in an easy to read format. Reading here will bring you up to speed. You are asking questions that have no clear answer at the moment. No one knows right now if Traction or VED is better than the other, but there is no lack of opinions and thoughts on the boards here.

Here's your reading assignment:

https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/board,18.0.html

[ComeBacKid]

I personally prefer the VED over the traction.  I never tried the traction myself but did the VED daily for a period of six months.  Its easy to control your erection with it.  The main downside to the traction is if you work during the day leaving it on all day could be uncomfortable or tough to hide.  The ved you do in the privacy of your own home.  I still have yet to see a scientifically valid study that says either or really works to cure peyronies....

comebackid

[RichB]

I have just been to a urologist yesterday and he has suggested that I might have Peyronie's disease :-(. I don't understand how this could have happened. My partner and I have never done anything to cause trauma to my penis. The more I think about it the more I think I have it. What is there for me to do? This is so depressing. I feel like I am half the man I used to be. I am only 19 and I have a disease that usually takes years to develop :-(. Things only recently seem to have developed signs of peyronie's. If I stop having sex for a while and keep things under control is there a chance that I will get better and recover? The doc said that he is confident I will make a full recovery, but I don't know anymore after reading all of these posts and websites. This is so distressful. It has only been a month since symptoms have onset. Only since the day I visited the doctor have I experienced symptoms of Peyronies Disease. How can I be sure I have it? How can I be sure things will get better? Does this happen at random to young people like me? What am I supposed to do?

[LWillisjr]

richB,
Unfortunately many of us who have developed Peyronies are not able to relate this to any single event. And often when the trauma occurs it can be weeks before the Peyronies scarring occurs which futher complicates the ability associate the disease with an event.

You ask some good questions, and I can appreciate your concern. Since your uro "suggested that you might have Peyronies" makes it unclear. You might try posting some additional specific symptoms you are experiencing, pain, sudden curvature, etc. some of the guys here might be able to offer some advice. You might want to take a look at the child boards and previous posts for education. There is A LOT of information on this site most of which is first hand experience by those who have had this disease.

I would not stop having sex if I were you, but would just be careful. You are not going to make your condition any better or worse by stopping sex.

Also your uro stating that you will make a full recovery is miss-perception. I don't know of anyone who had Peyronies and then it cleared itself up. But many urologists seem to quote this for some reason. You will see the following posted time after time on this site.......  Many urologists seem to be able to diagnose Peyronies Disease (sort of), but many of them don't specialize in the treatment of it. Don't know where you live but there are several good specialists referenced on this site.

[RichB]

In order to help I'll tell you my story in full detail.

About a month ago I woke up with this odd pain at my lower abdomen. Now, my partner and I had a little more rigorous sex than usual, so I attributed it to that and let things go as they please. My testicles were red and swollen, and I had trouble getting an erection. About a few days later, the pain itself had actually somewhat worsened and I decided to go see an everyday doctor.

The pain itself was solidly in my abdomen, nowhere else. It just stayed there and slowly went away. The testicles returned to normal, albeit admittedly smaller than usual, and everything seemed to even out to a dull pain.

In the time between this I still had sex with my partner, it was difficult, but nothing too bad. I decided to stop from risk of hurting myself. The doc said that this is a usual thing, you just strained yourself, nothing to worry about. He said he has seen penis fractures before and there is usually intense bruising. He told me to take it easy and not to worry. I did what he said and stopped all sexual acts for a good week to two weeks, except for on valentines day. After which I resumed sex with my partner. Things felt almost completely normal, I had an erection like usual, and everything was fine. After a couple days of sex things got worse again. They weren't as bad as before but still not up to par. I decided to go back to the doctor. She prescribed me medication for epididymitis, which I have been taking since. For the past week or so I have been experiencing varying degrees of pain in my urethra, usually when I have to urinate and post ejaculation. On Saturday I went to see the rocky horror picture show with my girlfriend, we didn't do anything that night, but I had a prolonged erection during the movie, probably for about a half an hour or so. Nothing long or out of the ordinary. Yesterday we had a bout of dry humping and such, nothing bad. The odd part is during the day and leading up to the night I had experienced some odd pain at the base of my penis on the left. That night we had some bits of dry humping while I had an erection, and the next morning I woke up with some bruising on the base of my penis on the left. I went to see the urologist that day. He took a urine sample but couldn't do all the tests because I was on an antibiotic.


Here is what I have been usually feeling leading up to today:
Pressure in lower abdomen, tightness of bowels, weird pain in urethra and urgency to urinate. The sensation is basically like I have gas but in the front of my pelvis.

Here is what I am feeling today:
There is a sharp pressure at the base of my penis, where the shaft meets my abdomen. It feels like I have pulled a muscle or something. there is the ever-so slightest curve to the left, but I have always had this curve, and normally it evens out. The pressure is strong and it feels like I have been kicked in the shaft. There is a small, cyst like lump deeeeep under my penis on the left, almost under the pelvic bone, but it goes away with erection. Erections have returned to their first difficulty. The only abnormality in the appearance is that it seems as though it has been slightly twisted counterclockwise. When I got an erection today it was weak but the left was a little weaker than the right. I am not sure if it is the pain that is effecting my erections or something else like Peyronies Disease.


My uro is at the Cleveland Clinic, so I assume he is pretty well educated. I have also been checked for scrotal hernias multiple times. There is also an odd warmness to the feeling.

[George999]

Rich,  If I were in your position, I would want to get on Pentoxifylline right away.  It could prevent you from developing Peyronie's.  This is a prescription med that you would need to request from your uro.  You could tell him you would like to take it in order to prevent Peyronie's from developing.  It is a very safe, inexpensive and proven medication.  But it is not approved for use with Peyronie's.  So you need to print out the material in the resource library here: https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/board,10.0.html.  You want the first two entries where two of the most prominent Peyronie's specialists endorse the use of Pentoxifylline.  Your uro can consult with Dr. Levine (Chicago) on the use Pentoxifylline for Peyronie's if he feels the need.  Secondly, I would get a vitamin D test.  It is very likely that low vitamin D levels can aggravate and promote Peyronie's.  More information on vitamin D here: http://www.vitamindcouncil.org and here: http://www.grassrootshealth.org.  At the age of 19 you really need to make sure your vitamin D levels are in an optimal range of 50-70ng/ml and keep them there.  - George

[Iceman]

Rich B:

Welcome to the club!!!  - guess what you have - you have peyronies disease - sorry man - its gonna be a tough one for you....try to relax and deal with it - theres no point freaking out - although i did for a year - get on pentox now and read the ved threads - this is WITH YOU  for a long long long long time

[Tim468]

Hi Rich B,

I think it sounds like what is happening to you is a work in progress. I would work - hard - to find a urologist who can do serial examinations and help you to figure out what is going on and treat appropriately. Although it sounds like you might be headed to Peyronie's Disease, it also seems like you are in the middle of an undiagnosed process of uncertain origin. It might be infectious, it could be malignant, but it is not yet figured out. True, when the dust settles, you may have weaker erections or a bend, but right now, I think the focus should be on working with a urologist to figure out what these changes mean.

In the meantime, I would get familiarized with what we talk about here (Pentox, VED, etc) so you can start to advocate for those things with the uro if and when the time comes.

Tim

[George999]

Tim,  I certainly would agree with you.  The one thing I think he should NOT do is to take the wait and see attitude that his current doc is suggesting.  He, instead, needs to start ruling things out.  He is really close enough to Chicago that it might be worth it for him to let Levine have a look.  - George

[Bertie]

I have had bending and pain in my penis since last November/08. The pain - even while flaccid - comes and goes. Recently the pain has returned and become more constant. I also have a rather similar burning pain in my hands and feet. Can there be any link going on here? How long does the inflammation stage last. I can live with a bendy penis (to some extent) but I do NOT like this pain/discomfort. Advice PLEASE!

[Iceman]

wow - i thought i was fine and doing well , but guess what I have a new dent on the right hand side and its causing an indentation on the side thats quite visible and an extra bend that I did not anticipate - ive had pain the last couple of days ( the same pain that i thought i had left behind) - the bend is almost like a swollen curve bending to the left - why why why me???

What should I do - should i re-do the ved from the beginning again...

Freaking out a bit here and feeling despondent

[Tim468]

It sounds really challenging Iceman. Hang in there friend.

Tim

[Tim468]

Bertie,

Not sure what is happening, but I would probably hit the anti-inflammatory meds hard (ie 800 mg of ibuprofen three times a day for two weeks). YOu may be having concurrent inflammation of the palmar and plantar fascia of your hands and feet, which can be involved in Peyronie's-like problems for up to ten percent of men with Peyronie's.

Best to see your doc.

Tim

[LWillisjr]

Bertie,

I agree with Tim. Hit the anti-inflammatory meds. To early to tell if you have Peyronies or not. Your symptoms are not conclusive enough for Peronies. But you definitely have something in progress that clearly hasn't been diagnosed yet. Penile fracture, UTI, prostate, etc. are all likey culprits.

[Believer]

Guys speaking of pain... I'm in pain for about 1.5 weeks.. my old plaque began to grow slightly and for the past few days the pain got bad - I had trouble falling asleep and it even woke me up at night...it's a mild to moderate sharp pain and is only in the flaccid state...I've been popping 600mg of ibuprofen once a day for the past 4 days...is it safe to do so? thanks

[Believer]

honestly the pain is pretty bad...my entire pelvic area is just a sore aching mess... I never had it so bad in 3.5 years... I wonder how long it's going to last but it had been like this for 4-5 days, with each day worse than the next.

Any tips on dealing with the inflammation aside from Motrin? It feels like there's a bullet hole wound inside my penis. Burning and aching..

[Iceman]

i think ved pumping too hard causes me pain - ive benn pumping hard on the large cylindar as its the last 4 week of the protocol - so i will start from the beginning again and not pump so hard - i reckon its this that caused the pain plus stress at work.

[jackp]

Believer

I take 800mg of IB twice a day for arthritis and can take it three times if needed.

I have a Rx from my doctor but can buy it cheaper at Sam's OTC.  

Jackp

[Believer]

Jack,

I heard that high doses of IB cause stomach bleeding. Are you taking any anti-ulcer meds as well?

[RichB]

In the time since my visit with the urologist I have considered the possibilities, and I am sure that I have Peyronies Disease. It is of no question. Now, considering I have a very early case of Peyronies Disease, I should get on medication right away to help stabilize and possibly reverse the effects. I should get on Pentox, right? How effective is vitamin E medication? Is it too soon to consider surgery?

[Believer]

Levine suggests Pentox 3x a day, 400IU. Also L-Arginine, 1000mg 2x day. Consider FastSize and/or VED. ASAP! Also consider making an appointment with Dr. Levine in Chicago or Dr. Lue in SanFran

[jackp]

Believer
My wife says I have a cast iron stomach. No I do not take anti ulcer meds I just have a snack or take it with meals.

richB
Vitamin E is an old treatment for peyronies. Mine started in 1995 and doctor put me on 400IU three times a day. I took it until Jan 2008 and only stopped because of heart meds. Helped me. Be careful at that dosage you bleed very easily.

Surgery is a last option. (been there done that) You are a long way from surgery there are many options to try first including the proper VED exercise in the Child Boards follow Old Mans instructions. Helped me lots!!!  

Jackp

[ggg953]

Hey guys, I've been working with Old Man on VED therapy and wanted to put my story out there as I believe we all need to participate. I'm 34 years old and started noticing pain towards the end of right corpora cavernosa, on the inside aspect of it early October 2008. It started with acute pain while erect. When I examined myself, I noticed that that side was a little firmer inside. I went to Dr. Gary Bellman, a Urologist in my city with suspicions of Peyronie's. He misdiagnosed me with Prostitus and put me on 500 mg of Cipro twice a day. Two weeks later I started noticing that the head of my penis was "tilting" a little bit to the right and indenting right below the glands on the bottom side. He examined me again and diagnosed me with Peyronie's. He put me on Transdermal Verapamil 15% Gel twice daily. Obviously, I was concerned with the timely treatment of this as I had read in many places that when treated early on, it can completely go away, hence me starting on everything I could to get resolution on the matter. Important to know that he had no idea what else to do about it and had no real knowledge of the problem. Most everything I learned, I learned through web research and this forum.

Upon finding out how expensive Verapamil was, I called and discussed the cost, effectiveness, etc. When I spoke with the rep at PDLabs, they told me it was actually good to continue in normal sexual function as the penis can use the extra blood flow, provided it is not at all aggressive. They seemed like good people and were very knowledgeable. The pain, which was slight, didn't interfere with my pleasure really and I could masturbate and have sex with mild discomfort. Was this wise? Also, what would be a basic regimen to start with regard to the following which I discovered might assist in the problem? VITAMIN E, POTABA, COLCHICINE, COLLAGENASE or NEPRINOL AFD. Would any of these treatments help? My fear was,  that by doing nothing, the scar tissue would increase and so would the distortion.

FYI: I attribute the condition at my young age to my taking high doses of "Move Free" (Glucosamine Hydrochloride and Chondroitin Sulphate), past the recommended "loading phase" as the pamphlet given to me by PDLabs, points to this as a cause. I had been enjoying the effects of it in relation to my sports activities and had been taking the "loading phase" dosage for a couple months instead of tapering off. This coupled with long sessions of sex with a semi erect penis (was in a demanding sexual relationship with someone I wasn't into at all) created my Peyronies Disease in my opinion.

I found the "Dr." Herazy website (http://www.peyronies-disease-help.com/) and bought all his crap, spent like $300.00 only to realize that I'd pretty much been had. Who knows where this guy's heart is at- I just felt like it was all a bunch of BS, especially when I discovered Dr. Levine's findings on straightening out midsection Peyronie's distortions: Through stretching devices, one can bring the bend down to a minimum curvature. (Herazy says, over and over again that they are not worth trying and even hurtful, even while clinical trials prove otherwise).

After much research, I found a leading Doctor in LA, Martin Gelbard and saw him. He confirmed Peyronie's but said I might seriously be one of the 30 percenters in that I am young and could bounce back. This was about three months ago and while I am not worsening in regards to the distortion, I can feel the scar bigger, almost 50% bigger. I have uploaded some pics which might be viewable for awhile. Below, they show how I have worsened and maybe stabilized.

Important to note: I stopped doing a lot of dangerous things to my body as a result of this condition and decided early on that I would use this misfortune to my benefit and turn a lot of things in my life around. I quit smoking, quit drinking, and quit doing recreational drugs. I started eating right, working out. Finally manned up and asked my GF of 4 years to marry me. I am happier than I have ever been and I am a Peyronie's sufferer. This thing does not have to destroy your life. Most men have a very twisted view of what women really want. It is not some gigantic dick attached to some dude who can screw her all night. I WAS that guy for years and never found out what a great woman I had until my "wings were clipped" a little and I had to hunker down and get to what was real. I stopped cheating on her and let myself enter into a true, real, intimate relationship. I am kind of grateful in a weird way and I really don't think it would've happened if I hadn't contracted this condition.

I do want to say that I have chosen to keep my Peyronie's to myself. I keep my VED in my gym bag and my jock strap always right on top of it so she'll never pry any further than that, and if she does, I have it in the cool little bathroom bag it comes with. When you open it, there's a toothbrush and some stuff on top of it.
I get bummed when I look at my penis during sex and it affects my erection so I usually take half to a full Viagra about 20 min before we make love. I have completely changed my approach to my sexuality with regards to my fiancé. Whereas I used to be very graphic and "lights on" in my approach, I am now very much about the sensuality of the whole thing. Needless to say, she loves it and I can finally have an orgasm without having to do some kind of crazy pornographic crap to get where I need to be.

After a lot good advice from the fine people here, as well as a phone consultation with Dr. Levine ($150.00 well spent) and thousands of wasted dollars (Transdermal Verapamil among other things...) I use VED therapy every night and most of the time every morning as well. I take Cialis 2.5 one time daily for increased blood flow, 500 mg's of Pentox three times daily and 1000 mg's of L'Argenine twice daily. I take vitiman E as well for good measure and will be adding Neprinol per my last visit with Dr. Gelbard. He still feels I'll recover fully and while it's nice to hear, I am prepared for whatever.

You guys are all great and I appreciate your presence here- It's not only made my life bearable, I am realizing what it really means to be a man and finding true happiness in the process.

Thanks for listening,
G

[Tim468]

Your story ought to be mandatory reading here. What an inspirational tale to hear!

You took a situation and learned and grew and that is the best that can come out of this.. no, even more - you are finding joy in life.

I am glad for you - not that you got this disease but that you found something deeper.

Tim

"In the middle of winter I at last discovered that there was in me an invincible summer." Albert Camus

[Hawk]

ggg,

Bravo!  I second Tim's remarks.  

I have only one concern.  To me, true intimacy requires honesty.  I have to wonder how fair it is to either of you to hide this from someone that you are intimate enough with to "make love", marry, and possibly raise a family.  Can you go into a lifelong relationship with a person you fear being totally honest with.  What about telling her scares or concerns you?

[ComeBacKid]

Pentox works, congrats on your success story man!  Stay on the pentox, the VED combined will help you gain and maintain size and straightening!!!!!  Topical verapamil is a joke, it won't work, verpamil isn't even proven to help.  When you go to the doctors they don't know what to do, only what they are taught in medical school.  Stay close to this forum and enjoy yourself and your loved one! When I brought up my VED the resident and veteran doctor almost laughed me right out of the room!

Wish you the best of luck!

Comebackid

[George999]

I use VED therapy every night and most of the time every morning as well. I take Cialis 2.5 one time daily for increased blood flow, 500 mg's of Pentox three times daily and 1000 mg's of L'Argenine twice daily. I take vitiman E as well for good measure and will be adding Neprinol per my last visit with Dr. Gelbard.

G,  All this sounds "right on" to me with one exception.  Neprinol?  I found it quite useless and its extremely expensive.  Additionally I don't see any way it can work in a pharmacological sense.  Is Gelbard recommending it?  - George

[ggg953]

Thanks for the support guys.

With regard to the honesty issue: I get what you are saying Hawk and I appreciate an esteemed member of this forum like yourself finding time to respond to a nub like me- Thanks. That said, some stuff, for instance stuff concerning my fiance's privates, I consider "Lady Business". When she starts talking about it, I cringe. When she's on her period, I don't wanna know about it. I know some guys dig it but that's not me. Not interested in seeing her poo or pee either. When we use the restroom, the door gets shut. There must be a little romance and definitely a degree of mystery for me in all this. I don't want to know how her vagina works, just want it to work. Knowing her, and I know her well, she's only interested in "it" working. She knows something is going on with me but isn't really interested in my "Man stuff" and I get it... It is working and as long as it is, I don't really see any reason to point the whole thing out. I plan on full recovery and hopefully never having to get further into the issue with her. I never thought I'd ever say this about any woman, but she's really not that sexual and I'm grateful for it. She'd rather be held and cuddled with than get screwed. Kind of a nice change for right now. Works for me as I really am trying to find much more depth in this.

Gelbard suggested Neprinol and I guess at $89.00 a bottle it IS expensive but I'll guinea pig it for us all... We'll see. Thank god I'm off that Verapamil crap! I feel like I'm saving money at this point.

I promised Old Man I'd be available to all of you guys for questions re: VED therapy so let me know if anyone has any questions. I'm getting good at it and under his tutelage, I really see some light at the end if the tunnel.

Thanks again!

[Iceman]

ggg593 - neprinol is the biggest waste of money - trust me - i spent 6 months on that crap and if i could meet the maker i would kick him in his nuts!!

[George999]

Neprinol is actually a good supplement.  It is actually manufactured in India and marketed in the US by Arthur Andrew.  The big problem is that Arthur Andrew insists on allowing/promoting this supplement for things it is totally ineffective at treating.  And, since I am sure that all this money isn't making its way back to India, I also pretty much suspect that Arthur Andrew is making a fortune in the process.  Trust me, there are a lot of things that Neprinol is helpful for, but Peyronie's is NOT one of them.  If you tell them that, they will just advise you to take more.  I am really surprised that Dr Gelbard is recommending Neprinol now.  This use to be Dr Herazy's franchise.  - George

[ComeBacKid]

I wonder if the doctor is getting a kickback?  I know with the therapist/doctor I see now he tells me that every week there is a new pharma rep in his office pushing a pill for him to give to his patients.  He showed me his closet and hese got hundreds of packs of anti depressants and other drugs for free!

Notice how none of the other prominent urologists push neprinol .  However many prominent urologists push pentox after Dr. Lue did his study, they generally support it.

Comebackid

[ggg953]

When I talked to Levine on the phone consultation, he was stoked I was seeing Gelbard. He called him "Marty" and asked how he was... Doc Levine gave him two thumbs up... Who knows- I already bought it so I guess I'll take the stuff :/

[geff3]

I have been taking for the last 6 month 1600iu of Vit E (Boots) advised by a specialist. I also now over the last couple of weeks massgage my penis quite severe NOT masterbate to help clear the constriction. And by christ it works for me. I am a male again. Go for it it takes time and conviction.

[George999]

G,  Sure, go ahead and take it.  It won't hurt you.  The usual side effects are a lot of chest issues initially.  You'll cough a lot of stuff out, it will really clean out your chest.  Next will be joint pains.  But after awhile this too will clear.  I recommend starting slowly with Neprinol and then working up.  And keep us posted.  Who knows?  Maybe Gelbard is on to something here.  Maybe in conjunction with Pentox, etc. Neprinol is helpful.  I couldn't wish for more!  - George

[George999]

I have been taking for the last 6 month 1600iu of Vit E (Boots) advised by a specialist. I also now over the last couple of weeks massgage my penis quite severe NOT masterbate to help clear the constriction. ...it works for me. I am a male again. Go for it it takes time and conviction.

Geff,  Thanks for this report!  Yes, many of us have found Vitamin E useful for Peyronie's.  If I were you, I would also be taking some Vitamin K along with that amount of Vitamin E because you are otherwise risking potential bleeding issues.  -George

[ComeBacKid]

Geff,

Just in case you didn't know, george says potential bleeding issues, because high doses of vitamin E acts as a blood thinner, significantly thinning it can cause problems for instance if you got a surgery with bleeding and healing.  Thin blood doesn't clot as well, this can be dangerous for some people, and others it can be good if they are trying to thin their blood for some reason.  Vitamin K will offset some of the thinning!

Comebackid

[RichB]

Is it possible to develop peyronie's disease from an injury to the suspensory ligament? Like, if the penis was bent all the way down? At the base of the penis?

[Tim468]

I think it is possible. It may not lead to an obviously visible lesion, but to a change in length or erectile quality with a weird feeling at the base of the penis (I am speculating here). But I see no reason there wouldn't be a problem there when there could be one anywhere else. I also think that one - like any other injury to the penis - has to have a tendency to abnormal wound healing for such an injury to lead to a chronic problem.

Tim

[ComeBacKid]

Its possible, anything is possible.  I think a lot of people men and women think you can just go in for rough sex and bend, pull, and do whatever to a penis, or engage in wild rough sex.  I often times wondered since i sustained my peyronies disease from a sports injury, how many other men out there have ever got hit in a hockey game, baseball game, or any game really etc....

I also wonder how many men out there in the world were engaged in woman on top sex and the woman came down hard and the penis slips out and bends!

Comebackid

[Iceman]

comeback - how come you dont use alc or larginine??

[ComeBacKid]

I intend to get on them both, havent gotten to the store yet to purchase them!

Comebackid

[Iceman]

I intend to get on them both, havent gotten to the store yet to purchase them!

Comebackid

i seriously believe that ALC helps in reducing pain - my delivery just came yesterday from the USA and I immediately took 2 tablets and the pain that i was experiencing went away - could also be due to the fact that i have stopped using the large cylindar for ved - only using the small one now - so its thumbs up for ALC from my quarter

[Hawk]

i seriously believe that ALC helps in reducing pain - my delivery just came yesterday from the USA and I immediately took 2 tablets and the pain that i was experiencing went away.

Pretty hard to imagine it would work within hours.  It is not a painkiller, it is a supplement.

[ComeBacKid]

Are you using the three cylinder protocol from soma correct?  I never really used the biggest cylinder, it was just almost to big.  The A cylinder was to tight, but I liked working with the B cylinder, always got a good solid stretch from this one.  Used the A cylinder only a couple of times, then just stopped using it and substituted the B cylinder anywhere it called for the C.  I still saw size gain and bigger thick erections.

Comebackid

[ocelot556]

Hawk -

I experienced a similar effect from Pentox. I know it's not a supplement, that it's an actual drug, but I could FEEL the pain subsiding (and still can when I'm having inflammation flareups) within an hour of taking it.

Heck, even if the supplement pain reduction is a placebo effect, the suspension of pain is important in and of itself, regardless of the improbability!

[Thumper]

Its possible, anything is possible.  I think a lot of people men and women think you can just go in for rough sex and bend, pull, and do whatever to a penis, or engage in wild rough sex.  I often times wondered since i sustained my peyronies disease from a sports injury, how many other men out there have ever got hit in a hockey game, baseball game, or any game really etc....

I also wonder how many men out there in the world were engaged in woman on top sex and the woman came down hard and the penis slips out and bends!

Comebackid

Im convinced my condition came from too much masturbation or rather not being gentle enough. Growing up a I noticed that my penis curve gradually got worse and eventually it was only comfortable to use that hand.

[McBaba]

Thousands of members here got worse while taking ALC!  Some taking pretty high doses of ALC.  Probably just coincidence you feel better.  The fact that you are still on this board says you are not feeling ''cured."

Comebackid
[/quote]

i seriously believe that ALC helps in reducing pain - my delivery just came yesterday from the USA and I immediately took 2 tablets and the pain that i was experiencing went away - could also be due to the fact that i have stopped using the large cylindar for ved - only using the small one now - so its thumbs up for ALC from my quarter
[/quote]

[Hawk]

Thousands of members here got worse while taking ALC!  Some taking pretty high doses of ALC.  

Clearly you are uniformed and enjoy throwing out "facts" you know nothing about, or you are just a prankster one mouse click from being put out of our misery.  

[ComeBacKid]

McBaba,

Thats not my quote, I believe Iceman is the one who quoted that.

Comebackid