anyone have a risk free, online source for 5mg cialis?

[MtnSurf]

Sorry if this question has been brought up before here.

I'm looking for a reliable online source for generic 5mg cialis. My insurance won't cover it so it costs me $140 for one month's supply.

I'd like to know I'm not getting ripped off or receiving fake meds buying them online. Samples from my urologist would be nice, but I'm not that close in location to his office (8hr drive)

Any help is appreciated

[pizzaman]

I buy it at alldaychemist.com
I also buy trental and a couple other things through there. I've ordered 3 times, and have never had a problem. They don't sell 5mg pills, so I end up using a pill splitter. riverpharmacy.ca also seems to be popular among the guys here.

[skunkworks]

Pizzaman: You've seen results with the trental from alldaychem ? I am worried about being sold expired or close to expired meds from an online source.  

[Hawk]

I share these concerns.  I mean when it comes down to it what safeguards are in place to prevent it?  Its sad to say, but in this day and time it sure as hell has to be a lot more than trusting the vendor.  How do we know the Chinese government does not own some of these international pharmacies?  They put lead in children's toys, sell tainted baby formula, and kill our pets with toxic pet foods.

[DO]

I ask every dotor I know for samples... I explain the disorder that I have, explain about the bad insurance coverage. I can usally get a box or two for a 30 day supply. Hey you know this is tough state to be in...play the sympathy card. "if you don't ask...the answer will be no". Besides that samples are given out until the drug goes generic!

[pizzaman]

The trental looks legit, and says it's made by Aventis in India. The manufactured date and expiration date or marked on the packaging. It's all been relatively fresh, if the the markings are to be believed. As for the effectiveness, it's seemed to at least help with pain over time, and to attenuate flareups. Also, I've tried taking it on an empty stomach, and it had me running to the bathroom later. All my trental has come from India, so I don't have anything else to compare it to though.

[funnyfarm]

I also am happy with the Avantis pentox from india.  I order mine from river pharmacy.

[james1947]

Riverfarmacy is my source for Pentox, Flomax and Cialis 20mg.
Cut 20mg Cialis in 4 pcs.
The prices are MUCH cheaper that on the local market and in my opinion are good quality.

[Hawk]

It would be nice if someone could speak knowledgeably about these pharmacies, any quality control standards they have, any regulations, or if they are subject to any inspections.

In a global market where there are players like Bernie Madoff, the Chinese government, and others, we need more than typed expiration dates and someone saying it felt like I think it should when I took it.  I have to believe that in the absence of some system to stop such individuals then we can be sure they ARE out there in the market place preying on people for a dollar.  I am no fan of the FDA but they do make such things very difficult in the U.S.  We have even heard of individuals stealing cancer meds from dying patients, so we know what elements are our there.

Forget expiration dates, how do we even know they are not counterfeits that are not even made by the well known drug companies.  How hard is it mold a pill into a shape and a color and put a stamp on it?  Who prosecutes these companies if the do such things?  Maybe they contain contaminants.  We live in an age when jeans, Rolex watches and software are all copied and pushed on the consumer.  A million vendors would happily do something as tame as sell expired meds.

Understand, I am no saying these things happen.  There may be good international regulations in place that stop it, but should't we know if that's the case  I would even feel better if there were some investigations by the news industry.

[skunkworks]

In a way I think it would be unlikely that they'd be selling counterfeit pentox just because it is not a high selling item, so putting together a pill press to make a similar enough copy would probably not prove profitable.

More likely would be getting sold repacked expired meds. Even that might not be a big issue, as most pharmaceuticals are potent long past their stated expiry date.

[Hawk]

Skunkworks, I generally agree that there is logic in that but I am speaking in terms of general controls.  I was hoping someone out there had a little more on these companies.  People, including men from here, buy a lot more than just Pentox.  I guarantee that there is big money in Viagra, Cialis, and Testosterone, as well as many other drugs.  It kind of looks like this is shaping up something like:

1. We have no proof they are not legitimate
2. We hope they are legitimate
3. It seems logical that the Pentox is at most, a little out of date and not counterfeit.
4. We have no sound evidence as to why we could trust them with many other drugs.

Not quite the warm fuzzy I was hoping for.

Here is one random article Beware of online pharmacies' fake medicines | Health | Detroit Free Press | freep.com
It particularly warns against pharmacies that do exactly what most men here are using an online pharmacy for (getting drugs without a doctor's prescription)

What to look for
There are some hallmarks of a safe online pharmacy, according to the FDA. Among the good features:

• It requires a valid prescription from a doctor.

• It is licensed and located in the U.S.

• It has a licensed pharmacist available for consultation.

• It may be linked to an established local brick-and-mortar pharmacy based in the U.S. or available through your health insurance plan or network.

What to avoid
Be wary of any online pharmacy that:

• Allows you to buy medicine without a prescription from your doctor.

• Offers deep discounts or cheap prices that seem too good to be true.

• Sends spam or unsolicited email offering cheap drugs.

• Is located outside of the U.S. or ships worldwide.

[Hawk]

Here from our friend, the FDA BeSafeRx: Know Your Online Pharmacy

[james1947]

I just got my Pentox and Flomax from Riverfarmacy, two weeks after ordering.
510*400mg Trental by Aventis, expire date Jun 2016 price $0.161 per pill, local pharmacy price $1.40
150*0.2mg Urimax (Tamsulosin) made by Cipla LTD, expire date November 2014 price $0.55 per pill, local pharmacy price $1.60
Shipment from B2B Pharmacy, Chennai India.

By the way the courts in India are not too much favorable to the Big Pharm. companies.
$5,600 medicine for cancer is produced in India and sold for $175, the court decided in the public interest.
$4,700 medicine for AIDS/HIV is produced in India and sold for $145, the court decided in the public interest.

Just a reminder, up to 70% of the drugs that the patent restriction has ended are manufactured in India and here in the Far East almost all the medical products are from there, approved by the local health authorities.
Not everything not made in the USA is bad quality.

James

[Skjaldborg]

I would steer clear of Chinese-made pharmaceuticals if you can. China has significant domestic problems with safety and quality control for medical products and that extends to exports, might be more acute actually. India appears to be a better choice.

-Skjald

[skunkworks]

It would definitely be possible to test a few random samples of pentox from some online sources, but it would be a couple hundred for each test...

[Hawk]

Not everything not made in the USA is bad quality.

James

I had to kind of laugh when I read that.  I know that's what the statement from the FDA sounded like but I think what they were suggesting is that online pharmacies that station themselves in one country and sell to another country often do so to escape regulations and enforcement in the country they sell to.  For instance Canada has strict standards but online companies in Canada, selling to the US could be fraudulent companies especially if they require no prescription and are not associated with a brick and mortar pharmacy (physical pharmacy buildings).

There is an old adage that if it seems too good to be true then it is.  Why would a pharmacy sell a drug for $0.16 if the going rate is 1.40 almost ten times more?

Also is it reasonable to think there are frauds and scumbags in this business.  The answer is that we would all bet our life savings that hundreds if not thousands of frauds start up such businesses.  So what is our protection?  A this point it sounds like just blind trust or dumb luck.  That is troublesome.

[skunkworks]

I would steer clear of Chinese-made pharmaceuticals if you can. China has significant domestic problems with safety and quality control for medical products and that extends to exports, might be more acute actually. India appears to be a better choice.

-Skjald

Pretty much any supplement you take will have been made in China, the raw ingredients definitely will have been.

[Hawk]

skunkworks,, just for fun I am going to go out on a limb and say I question your last statement that virtually all supplements or their base ingredients are made in China.

Please back that up.

[skunkworks]

Can't back it up with anything except experience. I used to be in the supplements business, and dealt with US suppliers for a while until it came to my attention that the US suppliers were basically companies with testing facilities (the reputable ones) and storage space who would ship bulk product in from China and then sell on to me at a mark up.

Amino acids particularly. If you are taking them, they are from China. This article also mentions it - Most Synthetic Vitamins Are Now Made in China

[George999]

In many cases it is true that the raw materials come from China, especially in the case of herbs.  However, in the case of aminos, Europe usually produces them, albiet at a much higher cost.  And the difference in quality is very perceptable.  I have tried, as much as I can afford, to use Europe sources aminos.  But the really important thing as I see it is to buy from a reputable vendor who reliably TESTS the raw ingredients they receive.  Who those vendors are can be somewhat determined by their reputation among naturopaths and their test results at Consumer Labs.  It is not an easy call by any means.  China as a country is a toxic mess and some of their products are OK and many of them are not.  Its buyer beware.  - George

[Hawk]

So we can agree it would be accurate to say many ingredidients found in supples come from China.  Many supplement however do not have ingredients that come from China.

A key factor however is if independent labs confirm their purity and potency.

[james1947]

What I want to add is:
I am not the first "Happy customer" of Riverpharmcy on this forum and this is the second Pentox supply from them (the first was 680 pills).
The Flomax also works as the original.
The reason of the big price differences are two:
* Indian companies don't need to recover the development expenses.
* Labor cost is much less than in the West

James

[Hawk]

James, Please understand that I am not questioning customer satisfaction.  

Nor am I pointing a finger at any particular online pharmacy.

Again, I am questioning how we know.  Out of all the thousands of online pharmaceutical companies that are peddling pills with no regard for anything except for their profits, and with no one to answer to, how do we KNOW FOR SURE which ones sell contaminated, expired, counterfeit, drugs.  How do we know which ones sell legitimate, authentic, drugs?  I am sure both have happy customes buying at cheap prices.  There is no way a customer can vouche for any of those things unless they get an independent lab analysis of the drugs.

I also ask what is the motivation of any online pharmacy for selling legitimate, high quality drugs? (love, fear of inspection and loss of profits, fear of arrest, dedication to mankind).  What is it?  Are the bad drug companies ever busted?

Finally, just to make it clear that these drug companies care little for their customers, they sell these drugs with no prescription so they allow patients to self diagnose with no way to know what other drugs they may be taking or what the patient's health or the counter indications are for the drug.  They have no assurance the patient has a doctor to oversee possible side-effects, but that really does not concern them.  If these things do not concern them isn't it reasonable to ask what else does not concern them?  I need someone to tell me why these pharmacies would not re-label expired drugs? Tell me why they would not look the other way if they got a great deal on a batch of counterfeit drugs.

[funnyfarm]

Those of us in the US without insurance often go offshore because drugs in the US are often priced quite high to compensate the pharma companies for development.  I think that explains the reason foreign pharmacy's products are sometimes 10x cheaper.

-Many US drugs are manufactured in India, esp generics.   I would not be surprised if the pentox you bought at Walmart came from the Avantis (French Company) plant in India.
-Having said that counterfeiting happens in every country, and esp in developing countries.  The likelyhood of getting a bogus or watered down pill is roughly proportional to its cost and popularity of the medication.  You are much much more likely to encounter a fake cialis pill (20.00 in the US) vs a fake pentox pill (40 cents? in the US).  ED and pain killers are notorious for being fake.
-I try to avoid consuming anything with base ingredients sourced from China.  This includes "natural supplements".  The issue is not potency but rather contamination.  Unfortunately it is very difficult to know with confidence you are safe because the manufacturer in the USA buying from China can not test for every conceivable toxic substance.  They pick ones that are more likely to show up (lead arsenic, ect) but often miss other one off events like glass shreds, or gear grease for example getting mixed into a batch.   I have been warned by both vets not to purchase dog food, treats, or even chew toys, that were made in china due to previous animal deaths resulting from contaminated lots.

I am comfortable buying the pentox from Avantis in India, however if I had insurance I would purchase it here at home.  Also, I have compared it with two mexican versions purchased in person and the results were comparable. Regarding your last point Hawk in most developing countries you do not need a prescription for many drugs that are rx in the US.  I am not saying this is good or bad but it is done with the understanding that poor people can not afford frequent office visits and poor govs can not subsidize them  so otherwise folks may not have access to medication.  

Finally many people that need to purchase online regularly share reviews at the pharmacy reviewer website.   Outfits that are unscrupulous are blacklisted so if you do enough research  you can often see what type of reputation the pharmacy has.   Many of your concerns are valid though Hawk and I am glad you brought them up.  Bottom line: ultimately you can not guarantee you are getting exactly what you expect so each of us should weigh the different factors accordingly given our personal circumstances.

[skunkworks]

James, Please understand that I am not questioning customer satisfaction.  

Nor am I pointing a finger at any particular online pharmacy.

Again, I am questioning how we know.  Out of all the thousands of online pharmaceutical companies that are peddling pills with no regard for anything except for their profits, and with no one to answer to, how do we KNOW FOR SURE which ones sell contaminated, expired, counterfeit, drugs.  How do we know which ones sell legitimate, authentic, drugs?  I am sure both have happy customes buying at cheap prices.  There is no way a customer can vouche for any of those things unless they get an independent lab analysis of the drugs.

I also ask what is the motivation of any online pharmacy for selling legitimate, high quality drugs? (love, fear of inspection and loss of profits, fear of arrest, dedication to mankind).  What is it?  Are the bad drug companies ever busted?

Finally, just to make it clear that these drug companies care little for their customers, they sell these drugs with no prescription so they allow patients to self diagnose with no way to know what other drugs they may be taking or what the patient's health or the counter indications are for the drug.  They have no assurance the patient has a doctor to oversee possible side-effects, but that really does not concern them.  If these things do not concern them isn't it reasonable to ask what else does not concern them?  I need someone to tell me why these pharmacies would not re-label expired drugs? Tell me why they would not look the other way if they got a great deal on a batch of counterfeit drugs.

That is pretty much a perfect summary of the worries I have about buying meds online. With the addition that if an online pharmacy gets a bad rep, they can just buy a new domain and put up a new site at very very little cost, and all of a sudden they are a brand new pharmacy with a shiny clean reputation.

[Hawk]

I once knew a very good web hosting service that had a very professional web page showing high-rise glass buildings and professional staff in every phase of IT work.  He ran his operation off of a dairy farm in central Canada.  You can be anyone, with any image, and any name, on the internet with 4 hours at an absolute maximum cost of $1,500.00 US dollars.  Most likely the cost is what you pay your IT guy for 4 hours of wages which in many parts of the world would be a few dollar.

[skunkworks]

Oh absolutely. I could get a full pharma website up and running, with products listed, for under $500.

[pizzaman]

Ultimately, I guess it's a tradeoff. You pay extra money to get FDA assurance. It's not worth it to me.

[Hawk]

The cost is more than FDA assurance.  Its development etc. and it is a fair decision to say the risk is worth it to me.  Whether the actual outcome is worth it to a individual in the end will be determined by there experience.  Improvement, wasted time/money, good health, injury, death.  These will determine if it is ultimately worth it.

[George999]

Just a couple of random thoughts here.

1)  Nothing is risk free in life.  NOTHING!  I cringe everytime see someone on this board using the term "risk free".  It is just so ridiculous.  Even the best doctors with the best of drugs are nowhere near "risk free".  So if ANYONE out there wants ANY of us to give them some sort of "risk free" guarantee, forget it.  Its not going to happen.

2)  Drugs in the US are hugely over priced.  They are regulated by industry insiders who leave their pharma jobs to take an FDA job and then eventually leave the FDA to go back to work for their old pharmaceutical company.  Its a very incestuous system.  Drugs are far cheaper in Europe and there is absolutely no evidence they are any more dangerous there than here.

3)  The problem with online sellers is that they are knowingly violating US law by shipping their wares to US addresses.  If they are willing to do this, what other laws are they willing to violate?  That is the huge question.  You are dealing with someone who is openly compromising their morality to operate their business.  That is a huge red flag.  But there ARE semi reputable online sellers out there that will at least sell you genuine products.  The only way to find out which ones they are is to find satisfied customers.  But no one in their right mind is going to guarantee you anything as being "risk free".

[Hawk]

George, I fully sign on to everything you said about risk free.  I think I made essentially the same argument a few weeks back to a member wanting absolute assurance.  I also do think Pizzaman or anyone could logically evaluate the risk and say it is a reasonable or an unreasonable risk.  I made and argued such a decision when I go to to sleep with traction and wake up an hour later and take it off. Sooooo, I'm on board with that.

The one thing I do not buy into however is the statement "The only way to find out which ones they are is to find satisfied customers."  I balked when James made a similar statement.  I think you can find satisfied customers on every quack, snake-oil, scam site in existence.  People could take in sub-clinical amounts of lead, arsenic, and literal manure for years and never know, much less would they know if their drugs were slightly less potent.  Throw in saving 90% of drug cost and the placebo effect and I consider customer satisfaction to be worthless.  Now customer satisfaction is reliable on issues of delivery time, responsiveness to email inquires, and the like, but certainly not for issues like drug quality.

[George999]

Hawk,  If you read between the lines, notice I use the term SEMI-reputable.  That should speak volumes.  Additionally, though, in the case of a drug like Ciallis, it should be reasonably easy to identify fakes.  Ciallis IS a patent drug with a specific design, not to mention, some pretty predictable effects.  If the drug delivered LOOKS like the real thing, is PACKAGED like the real thing and DELIVERS like the real thing, it is very unlikely that it is bogus.  And the fact of the matter is, Ciallis is far, far cheaper offshore.  Given that, if one can find multiple satisfied customers on a forum like this one, I suspect there is a good likelyhood that they can get an honest deal.  But NOT risk free.  NEVER risk free.  AND ... much MORE risky than the local pharmacy.  I hope that clarifies my position a bit on this matter.  Personally, I never have used online pharmacies, but then, I have had good drug insurance for which I am extremely grateful.  - George

[james1947]

I would like to add that I agree 100% with George.
And what I want to say about the meds I am buying online (always from the same source) is that until now they had the same effects and side effects as I have learned on this forum and I had from the meds bought in the local best reputation pharmacy.
Any of those medications I can buy in any local pharmacy without prescription.
I don't have choice, I have to take the RISC and base myself on the medications effects on me because I don't have insurance and my monthly expenses will be:
Pentox  $110
Flomax $42
Cardio aspirin $36
Cialis $90
And I am taking also L-Arginine, Ubiquinol, Acetyl-L-Carnitine all of them bought online in the US because I don't have cheaper alternative. Do the supplements are FDA approved? All the brands?

James

[Hawk]

James, are you claiming any knowledge that the drugs you are taking could not have had their expiration date altered?  If so how could you know?  Do you know they are free from cross contaminates of substances like arsenic or other drugs? How could you know that?

I think it is one thing to say it pretty much feels like when I was taking the other drugs.  It is quite another thing to suggest you can vouch for their potency and purity.

I repeat that for many drugs there is NO way for the consumer to tell, so while I may be convinced that a customer is convinced, I find that useless unless they can show me convincing evidence.  No one has shown me any evidence that the expiration date on these drugs is legitimate.  No one has shown even the very first shred of evidence that they are pure and uncontaminated.  It is all based on hope.

I hope you are right, and I readily admit you could be right.  But lets be clear.  You have hope and not evidence.

I assure you I can order things like nitroglycerin tablets and Viagra from the same supplier, or blood thinning and blood clotting drugs.  I can order drugs clearly dangerous to many people without medical clearance.  This means that surely these pharmacies HAVE caused injury or death.  Right there in front of us is the proof they have no interest in customer health.  So while I might risk a somewhat low risk drug like Pentox, or Cialis (one of the most counterfeit drugs in the world), I sure can not trust these companies to worry about contamination, potency, or expiration dates.

Those that counterfeit drugs have NO hesitation about duplicating a trademark on a pill or duplicating color and shape.  That is what a counterfeit is.  Some counterfeit ED drugs are counterfeits of generic ingredients, but a counterfeit brand name does have trade mark.  It may also have active ingredients.  I have to assume substantially increased risk.

My hope was that if I jabbed and poked enough on this topic that it would nudge someone with some trace of reassuring evidence to come forward and present it if for no other reason than to shut me up and close the topic.  In my view that just has not happened.  We have concluded that: James and others feel like the drugs he buys from this supplier have a similar effect on his body; that this supplier sells drugs without a prescription to anyone that pays; including shipping illegally to the U.S. for a profit.  They seem to operate out side of laws and regulation. We know they have no regard for the danger their self-prescribing customers could have from drug interactions or from contraindications.


Below is reported Cases of Fake Cialis from: http://www.articledashboard.com/Article/Is-your-Cialis-the-real-thing-make-sure-before-you-buy/951727  If you only read one, read the last one.

Case 1

Recently the American law enforcement authorities seized a whole consignment of the erectile dysfunction drug Cialis from the company "Vee Excel Drugs & Pharmaceuticals Inc." which had been conspiring with an Indian setup and shipping large quantities of this popular impotence drug. They were caught red handed and all the packages containing the Cialis drug were labeled "chlorine." The company immediately pleaded guilty to all the charges and have paid half a million dollars in fines.

Case 2

I bought Cialis in Hong Kong (HK) where I live and in Thailand where I have a holiday home. When I take the HK one the side effects are totally different from the one I bought in Thailand. With the HK one I can't feel any kind of improvement. In fact, the one I bought in Thailand is valid for a period of 3 years (from Mfg to Expiry) and the one I bought in Hong Kong is valid for a period of 2 years (from Mfg to Expiry). The same product must have the same validity but this is not the case. One pack has a bar code and the other does not in addition to both the packings being different also.

Case 3

A United States court in Philadelphia recently sentenced a woman to prison for 32 months for selling fake and illegal erectile dysfunction medication. The woman had been selling fake Viagra and Cialis tablets for about 6 months, after obtaining them from China. These pills in fact have no active ingredients and proved to be dummy pills. All sales were conducted over the internet and she was thought to have made thousands of dollars from past sales. When the police raided her home and found thousands of fake ED pills as well as a stash of $35,000 in cash and a kilo of marijuana. In all they confiscated two thousand fake Viagra pills and over one thousand fake Cialis pills potentially worth thousands of dollars on the black market.

Case 4

The New England Journal of Medicine has reported that rare cases involving  abnormal blood sugar levels in Singapore, which had resulted from illegal use of sexual performance enhancement drugs, contaminated with a diabetes drug.

Between January and May 2008, 149 men and one woman between 19 and 97 (men aged 51) were admitted to hospital due to dangerously low blood sugar levels. Similar cases were reported in media reports from Hong Kong where seven Singaporean patients remained in a coma because of prolonged sugar starvation of the brain, and four subsequently died. The diabetes drug glyburide was found in there blood and/or urine samples in 85% of cases; 30% admitted having used illegal sexual performance enhancers.

The contaminated products were a counterfeit version of the drug Cialis and Viagra in varying concentrations. The drug packaging mentioned names of non-existent overseas production facilities, so the source of the contamination with the diabetes drug could not be established.

[George999]

Hawk, We are NOT denying the risk.  But if people think that FDA approved drugs are safe, they are dreaming as well.  Just look at the recent case with injection steriods.  They were produced at a compounding pharmacy that was OWNED by an FDA APPROVED pharmaceutical company and those products were used at major hospitals and there were people who died and people who were gravely injured who will probably never be fairly reimbursed.  AND all these people were paying top dollar to avoid these kinds of risks.  And this case is NOT just an aberration.  I read about these things all the time and very often these cases NEVER get aired in the mainstream media.  Medicine is dangerous.  Are there more risks with online pharmacies?  OF COURSE.  But I would argue that the risks are not nearly as much greater as you are implying.  Personally I would (and do) avoid online pharmacies.  I would advise others to do the same.  But if you haven't got the money, you haven't got the money.  Its that simple.  And if NO doctor will give you a prescription and the stuff you are getting from an online pharmacy gets results, you gotta do what you gotta do.

Let me put this in a different way.  I have peripheral neuropathy.  I believe it could have been, in part, caused by supplements I was taking.  Multiple supplements seemed to aggravate it.  I later discovered that almost all of the various supplements in question were from the same supplement vendor.  But has that stopped me from taking supplements?  No way.  If it were not for the supplements in my life I would likely be dead by now or at least disabled.  And that is how life is.  There are no guarantees.  You can have your whole life destroyed by a prescription drug all legally prescribed all on the up and up right here in the highly over regulated US of A.  It happens all the time.  Literally thousands of elderly people in the USA buy from online pharmacies because they can't otherwise afford medicine.  And the situation is NOT getting better as medical costs go ever upward and income and medicare benefits go ever downward.  There are no easy answers.  Its pathetic.  But its the way it is.

[Hawk]

George, I recognize everything you said in the last post.  To me however it seems only somewhat related to the topic of what goes on deliberately with MANY online pharmacies..  There is just no equivalency to be drawn.  It is like me telling my son to not try to elude the police in a high speed car chases while he is intoxicated and him responding by recounting the number of people that die in legal, regulated commercial airline crashes ??

I read about these things all the time ...Are there greater risks with online pharmacies?  OF COURSE.  But I would argue that the risks are not nearly as much greater as you are implying...You can have your whole life destroyed by a prescription drug all legally prescribed all on the up and up right here in the highly over regulated US of A.  It happens all the time.  

Well actually it isn't happening all the time, nor even a high percentage of the time, and very rarely is it deliberate.  This as opposed to many online pharmacies that knowingly sell counterfeit and expired drugs.  I know you would argue there is not a big difference but as we have seen it would be an arguement of hyperbole and not facts (on either side) because the honest answer is, We don't have many facts.

There is a incomprehensible difference between phrases like "all the time" and most the time, or some of the time, or a minority of the times, or on occasion.

And the last word is yours my friend.  

[skunkworks]

Pentox is a tricky one. On the one hand it is not popular enough to spend time on counterfeiting it, but on the other hand the effects are too subtle for either counterfeit or degraded meds to be noticed quickly.

[George999]

Well actually it isn't happening all the time, nor even a high percentage of the time, and very rarely is it deliberate.

In NEITHER case is it deliberate.  Online pharmacies don't make money by intentionally poisoning their customers.  In both cases it is a matter of overlooking safety in order to make money.  That's the bottom line.  And that practice, unfortunately these days, IS happening all the time.  I have observed it myself happening "all the time" in the workplace.  A larger percentage of people than you might imagine are willing to put the public at risk in order to increase their profits.  Both legitimate businesses and not so legitimate businesses.  You are far more trusting in the medical establishment than I am.   In any case we obviously disagree on this matter in regards to degree but I am sure that we agree pretty much in the broader sense.

[james1947]

I suppose is the language barrier to understand my posts as I am not native English speaker.
I had written clearly that I don't have choice and taking the RISC, I mean regarding expire date, contamination and so on.
I will repeat the sentence bellow as no one has answered to:

I am taking also L-Arginine, Ubiquinol, Acetyl-L-Carnitine all of them bought online in the US because I don't have cheaper alternative. Do the supplements are FDA approved? All the brands?

James

[George999]

The FDA is a US regulatory agency and has tight regulatory control of PRESCRIPTIOIN drugs WITHIN US BORDERS.  Internationally it is a different picture as each nation has its own regulatory environment.  FDA regulation of supplements is VERY limited.  They can only pull a supplement off the market IF it is proven to be causing injury to users OR if it makes unpermitted efficacy claims on its labels.  That is just about it at this point.  Another US regulatory agency the FTC, can also remove supplement products in cases of marketing fraud or misrepresentation.  But that does not mean that supplements are unsafe, it just means that they are not heavily regulated by the US government.  - George

[james1947]

Sorry George, I see your answer regarding supplements just after I had modified my post.
So in the case of supplements if I understand correct, they can be fake, expired, contaminated and no one (FDA) will take action if someone is not passing away?
Also most of us are buying supplements online, or I am wrong?

James

[Hawk]

Supplements are largely food so as George said they are outside of the scope of prescription drug regulations.  Like food, there are agencies that monitor contamination or recalls.  Also they monitor false advertising claims.