Testosterone & other issues

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MattFoley

Testosterone of 70?!! Oh man!! That is not only low, but it's also dangerous!!

This is exactly why I rail to everyone here to please, please get their testosterone checked. From what my doctor has said and the research I've done, Low-T is at least partially responsible for non-injury related Peyronie's and also responsible for not giving the body the key weapon it needs to fight it off. Thank God you got that number up.

Got Testosterone?

james1947

Matt

This Testosterone issue is not always an indicator. My last check was 495 that is much higher than the the maximum for the age of 64.
My libido was near zero. With the actual treatment, things seems much better today at 65 8)

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

MattFoley

James, for Peyronie's where there is no injury, my urologist told me that the evidence he has seen may indicate Low-T as precursor to the disease and as an obstacle to healing. From my reading of the testosterone chart, at 495, you are below average. The average of men between the ages of 65-74 is 524. I'm not quite understanding your post. Are you taking T-replacement therapy right now? And if so, what is your T-Level?

Got Testosterone?

james1947

Matt

Testosterone test is done in different scales in some places in the world. I suppose because of different ways to check, I am not specialist in the subject.
The "maximum" for my age was 427 and mine was 493 (I check my records, 493 not 495)
It was at December 7, 2011.

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

MattFoley

James,

Thank you for that info. I was looking at the U.S. measurement chart. I have no idea what it would be in Europe or anywhere else. So, I'm glad you're on the high end.
Got Testosterone?

LWillisjr

Mattfoley,
The explanation for low-T as a precursor for Peyronies comes from the fact that as we get older our erections are not as strong. There are a number of reasons for this of which low-T can be a factor. Any type of ED that leads to a less than very hard erection makes one more sensitive to trauma to the Tunica.

So addressing ED issues early on is one of the keys to prevention. I've not read anywhere where any of the leading Peyronies specialists believe the low-T is an inhibitor to healing or recovering from Peyronies. If this was the case then all the leading specialists would also be testing/recording/monitoring T-levels. And the facts are..... they are not.
Developed peyronies 2007 - 70 degree dorsal curve
Traction/MEDs/Injections/Surgery 2008 16 years Peyronies free now
My History

MattFoley

lwillisjr:

As I posted several times now, having Low-T is an inhibitor to the healing process in general. Feel free to Google this as it is an established and well known fact.

My urologist agrees that this would extend to healing from Peyronie's as well. He was also the one who directed me to the clinical study that I have already posted here several times that shows a correlation between Low-T and Peyronie's. And as such has advised me to continue to raise my testosterone as much as possible naturally and allow the T-Replacement therapy to do the rest. My doctor also stated that if this correlation between Low-T and Peyronie's is accurate as he believes, then allowing your testosterone to remain low might encourage further degradation of the situation.

So, I'm going to keep doing what my doctor says because the facts do support the conclusion that, we need adequate testosterone for our bodies to heal.

Got Testosterone?

LWillisjr

I'm all for good health including proper T-levels. There is some debate in the medical community what is actually an acceptable level. I agree that is it not good to have low levels.

I also understand that increasing T-levels might "help the overall healing process", there just isn't aren't any studies that conclude that increasing T-levels will help reverse Peyronies. But since there is not one single cure for Peyronies, this could be considered along with other therapies like VED, traction, VI's, Xiaflex, etc.
Developed peyronies 2007 - 70 degree dorsal curve
Traction/MEDs/Injections/Surgery 2008 16 years Peyronies free now
My History

Old Man

Hey guys:

Just wanted to jump in here and relate something else that may or may not have been considered when adding testosterone for Peyronies Disease therapy.

The older a man gets the more he has the problem of prostate cancer developing. Prostate cancer feeds off testosterone and can rapidly increase the PSA level of prostate cancer.

So, it behooves guys, a least us older ones, to be extremely careful about increasing their levels excessively to preclude cancer from developing rapidly.

The above comments carry my usual caveat, let the user beware!!

Old Man
Age 92. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after
stage four radical prostatectomy in 1995, Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents.
Three more stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries too.

MattFoley

Old Man, thank you for bringing up the issue of prostate cancer and testosterone. I had been meaning to address that issue and this seems to be the right time for it.

Without me making any pronouncements or conclusions, I would like for everyone who is interested to take a quick look at the links below. These studies are regarding the new understanding and elimination of the previous conclusions regarding the prostate, prostate cancer, and testosterone. Please take a look at the articles and share your thoughts:

http://www.webmd.com/prostate-cancer/news/20061114/testosterone-may-be-safe-for-prostate

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/dec2008_Destroying-the-Myth-about-Testosterone-Replacement-Prostate-Cancer_01.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17113983

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121028141726.htm


Thanks, guys. God bless.
Got Testosterone?

Old Man

Matt:

I do not care to address the issue of testosterone versus prostate cancer any longer. Since I am a counselor for the American Cancer Society as well as a counselor for my own urologist, I have my own resources for the information about the subject. It is well known by the top urologists that testosterone can and will increase/raise the risk of  prostate cancer in most cases.

Each and every case of prostate cancer has its own characteristics and does not apply in a blanket situation that you are relating in the links. Each case must be evaluated on its own merits and diagnosis. Therefore each case does not fit the profile and must be handled separately. Some cases will not be effected by increasing the hormone, but others will, etc.

Sorry to disagree with you on the subject, but I have many years of experience in the field and have my own opinions.

Old Man
Age 92. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after
stage four radical prostatectomy in 1995, Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents.
Three more stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries too.

Hawk

MattFoley,

OK, Lets actually take a look at your links.  Because I have a life I will address only the very first one as an example of how a little knowledge can be dangerous.  First off it is laughable as a study.  It looked at 40 (FORTY) men.  Just with that, the study cannot be taken seriously.  Many studies compare thousands or even tens of thousands of participants.  In a study that small a single abnormal deviation significantly skews the data.

Next, these men all had prostate biopsies prior to testosterone replacement.  That is a level of clearance damn few men would be willing to go through if they knew anything about prostate biopsies.  This means these men were fairly well cleared as NOT having prostate cancer.  No one has argued testosterone CAUSES THE CANCER but rather that it is like gasoline on existing undiscovered cancer.

Third, all this study establishes is that the concentration of testosterone does not rise in the prostate in proportion to the rate in rises in the blood stream.  It does nothing to refute the fact that prostate cancer is fueled by testosterone and that it kills more men than any other cancer, or that random biopsies done on the prostates of elderly men that died from other causes, revealed the majority of older men harbor prostate cancer.  For those that are uninformed, aggressive prostate cancer can throw cells beyond the prostate very early in the cancer process.  This makes the argument of testosterone levels in the prostate a moot issue.

Finally this study (where only 20 men got short-term testosterone replacement) that The prostate risks to men undergoing TRT may not be as great as once believed, especially if the results of the pretreatment biopsy are negative,"

MattFoley, if you are now planning on including the warning that men at least get a per-treatment prostate biopsy prior to testosterone replacement we will have no further area of disagreement on this topic.  I hope it is clear however how pasting a few links from various studies and glossing over the details gives a very faulty picture of what the study really shows.

PS:Any man that fuels prostate cancer because he took testosterone replacement will find that his Peyronies Disease, ED, incontinence, lack of ejaculation, and other issues will make him wish and beg that he could return to the sex life he had BEFORE he tried to replace testosterone.  As Old Man and I have tried to tell you - Every man needs to be warned to be as certain as possible he is not one of the many men harboring indolent prostate cancer before they get testosterone replacement.  They also need to very actively monitor for prostate cancer throughout the treatment phase.  I could not have made that point any better than MattFoley's link made it.
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

MattFoley

I have discussed this with both my general and with both my urologists and they all confirmed what the articles are saying so, again, I can only go with my doctors tell me.

But more importantly, I have said it repeatedly and I will say it again, All treatments MUST be discussed with your doctors. No one should engage in any medical procedure without sound medical advice.

Leaving everything else aside for a moment, that statement encapsulates each and every point I've been trying to make.

Got Testosterone?

Hawk

Hmmm,  I think a better link could not have been posted to make Old man's point. What the article is saying is summed up in this quote

Quote"The prostate risks to men undergoing TRT may not be as great as once believed, especially if the results of the pretreatment biopsy are negative,"

It acknowledges there are risks
They may or may not be as great as believed
IF they have a negative pretreatment biopsy

That is precisely what we have been saying all along and you keep countering by picking and choosing statements you like out of studies.  I think readers can see what this study says and and it supports our point.

Can we assume that your messages in the future will  be summed up like the study that was in your link?
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

MattFoley

Can we assume that your messages in the future will  be summed up like the study that was in your link?

There was no summation to start with so I'm not sure what you're talking about. The point is that testosterone replacement therapy leading directly to prostate cancer is false. That was my point. I posted some links and invited comment. I'm happy you took the time to look at them and respond. Thank you.



Got Testosterone?

LWillisjr

We owe Pilot an apology. We have completly hijacked his post.

James, can you please split this post from Pilot's and your call on what you want to title it.
Developed peyronies 2007 - 70 degree dorsal curve
Traction/MEDs/Injections/Surgery 2008 16 years Peyronies free now
My History

Hawk

I agree with splitting the post.

MattFoley,

I am beginning to think that you are here in the role of your name sake just to prank the forum with outrageous claims, shooting off your mouth on a topic you know nothing about like the Chris Farley character Matt Foley on Saturday Night Live.  If by chance you are serious, then you are someone that showed up and concluded you knew all about Peyronies Disease and Prostate cancer because you had an individual case where you assumed that anything that happened in your life before Peyronies Disease just had to be the direct cause of your Peyronies Disease and most all Peyronies Disease on the globe. You then concluded that you have discovered the formula the rest of mankind is missing.  That, coupled with your role playing as the comic character of Matt Foley (or your arrogance if you are serious) makes for an individual that is beyond being taught and beyond learning.

You seem incapable of reading and understanding the very studies you post.  That along with your insistence of interjecting this nonsense into every topic is why I think you are just roll playing and that you are really here to prank the forum.  That has its limits.  Those limits are just about right
________________________________________________________
here!



Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

Old Man

Hawk:

Amen to your post 1000%. We don't watch SNL, but your description is dead on!!

James:

I agree that you should clean up this topic and give Pilot some justice to his post originally.

Old Man
Age 92. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after
stage four radical prostatectomy in 1995, Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents.
Three more stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries too.

james1947

How naturally to increase Testosterone
After extracting the promotions of books, doctors and food 8), those are the essentials of the article:
A testosterone shortage could cost you your life. As if losing muscle mass, bone density, and your sex drive to low T levels wasn't bad enough, new research shows the decline can also increase your risk of prostate cancer, heart disease, and even death. Follow these steps to lift your levels and lengthen your life.
1.   As your waist size goes up, your testosterone goes down. In fact, a 4-point increase in your body mass index, about 30 extra pounds on a 5'10" guy, can accelerate your age-related T decline by 10 years.
2.   Men who lifted weights regularly experienced a 49 percent boost in their free testosterone levels. You need to push iron only twice a week to see the benefit.
3.   Trimming lard from your diet can help you stay lean, but eliminating all fat can cause your T levels to plummet. To protect your heart and preserve your T, eat foods high in monounsaturated fats, food such as fish and nuts.
4.   Alcohol can wreak havoc on your manly hormones. Limit your drinking to one or two glasses of beer or wine a night to avoid a drop in T.
5.   Mental or physical stress can quickly depress your T levels. Stress causes cortisol to surge, which "suppresses the body's ability to make testosterone and utilize it within tissues. Cardio can be a great tension tamer, unless you overdo it. Injuries and fatigue are signs that your workout is more likely to lower T than raise it.

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

MattFoley

Thanks James.

Here are some foods with testosterone raising qualities:

1. Eat a serving of good fat. As your fat intake goes up, so do your T levels. Aim to get at least 30% of your calories from fat and spread your consumption of it throughout the day. Mono-saturated fats, the kind found in nuts, fish, olives, olive oil, seeds, and avocados-are particularly beneficial to your testosterone level (and your health). ((http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/82/1/49)) Also, don't be afraid of saturated fat; that whole business about it raising your cholesterol and causing heart disease is a bunch of rubbish. ((http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth&channel=health&category=heart.disease&conitem=a03ddd2eaab85110VgnVCM10000013281eac____))

2.  Eat a serving of animal protein. Vegetarian diets have been proven to lower your T levels. ((http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/159772))

3. Eat a serving of cruciferous vegetables. Veggies like broccoli, cauliflower, radishes, turnips, cabbage and brussel sprouts contain Diindolylmethane which helps balance your estrogen and testosterone levels and increases the amount of free circulating T in your body. Avoid grapefruit since it makes it harder for your body to break down estrogen.

Hope this helps. :)
Got Testosterone?

funnyfarm

For someone with no ED or bending issues like myself, is it really necessary to boost T levels ?  I ask because I have always had a high sex drive which was a good thing UNTIL I GOT Peyronies Disease !

Now I find my high sex drive is more of a curse than a blessing as it adds to to my already high anxiety level.   Boosting T and seeing all the beautiful women at work and school could be almost too much for me.  I can not even manually release without aggravating the scar tissue and pain so really I have to abstain from any sexual activity until my situation improves.   Of course I will make up for lost time if I ever heal, but in the meantime my goal is not to max T unless there is definite evidence it will speed tissue regeneration and I can learn to better handle the crushing psychological aspect of abstinence.

I imagine many of you have sexual functionality, so I understand the motivation to make the most of what you have.  I guess we all face different challenges but are here for a common goal, to achieve better sexual health.
When you are in tune with the unknown, the known is peaceful.

MattFoley

funnyfarm, if your testosterone level is normally then there's really no need to stress about boosting it. In my case, it was the drop in testosterone that preceeded my Peyronie's, so for me it was critical to getting it back up.

Also, check this out regarding testosterone and Peyronie's:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19473459

So, if you're sure about your T-Level being good, then just do the normally healthy things you do on a regular basis and don't worry about it at this point.

Lastly, you are so right about high T-Levels being somewhat of a curse when you have Peyronie's because although my libido is through the roof, the +75% bend makes sex difficult and worse, the venous leakage really sucks. Early on, the Peyronie's made masturbation and sex painful so I avoided it but after a few months, the pain subsided so thank God for that at least.
Got Testosterone?

funnyfarm

Thanks for the link and advice Matt
When you are in tune with the unknown, the known is peaceful.

Norm

I have to admit that because of this discussion, I will get my T checked next trip to the doctor. However, funny farm, I find it hard to accept that just because you still have active libido that it automatically means your T level is good. Libido is only one of the many facets of men that are affected by T levels. I think it is very possible that a man with healthy libido could still have low T. Just as it is possible for a man with high T to have a low libido. I am saying don't let the one factor affect your judgement about getting checked. Your sex drive is made up of many different things, T level being only one of them. I am by no means an authority. I am just applying some logic.
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!

pizzaman

My testosterone levels hit rock bottom a couple months before my Peyronie's showed up.  I think there's definitely causality there. I did a little research last year and found that testosterone is critical for maintaining health of the entire pelvic region in men, especially the penis.

Also, testosterone doesn't necessarily correlate well with libido. I've heard from guys who were in the 200s and still had a raging libido. Libido is a very complicated beast that likely involves multiple hormones and neurotransmitters, and ones individual psychological state, environment, and countless other factors.

MattFoley

pizzaman, I agree with you.

My urologist told me that he has testosterone levels in the 200's and he has a good libido and is in fine shape. But he's also still pretty young and his HGH also has a role to play in this process. I think part of it is how well the body produces and utilizes testosterone that is very important. That's why it's hard to say what level is ideal for any one particular man.

My problem may also be related to pituitary and or hypothalamus function so I'm waiting to see an endocrinologist about this issue.
Got Testosterone?

Norm

My story on this forum goes back into last year. What caused my Peyronie's is a list of numerous factors, all of which made me a prime target. Tesosterone was not even considered unti I did reading on this forum. I had my T checked two weeks ago. I am 63, and my total T was 281. On the charts it should be 562, exactly twice what I had. My doc started me on monthly injections of testosterone cypionate. I cannot begin to tell you how much better I feel overall. Within two days I had more quick in my kick, more pep in my step. In less than a week I got very "anxious", shall we say, for sex. I have not felt that way in a long, long time. Sex was more gratifying with my wife than it has been in a long, long time. Did low T cause my Peyronie's? Probably not by itself. Did the Peyronie's cause my low T? Who knows? But I will say this; please get your T levels checked. Don't relent. Insist that it be checked. Even with the affliction of Peyronies Disease, you can feel good about yourself again. Your T level won't correct the Peyronie's. But if yours is low, you will feel better and more emotionally ready to fight Peyronies Disease after you get some help. Get checked. Get a diagnosis. Read the new member document. Then spend some time here reading.Good luck, guys.
Plication Surgery Dec. 2013. Straight Again!

MattFoley

Norm, thank you for sharing your experience regarding your testosterone levels and treatment. I'm very happy to hear about the turnaround in your life.

Like you, I don't know if testosterone can help reverse Peyronie's but this clinical trial:

http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01578473

is attempting to see if testosterone, Vitamin D, and Vitamin E will have some type of positive effect on Peyronie's. Let's all hope.


Got Testosterone?

egghead

One reason that clinic is doing this study is due to the xalifelx study they did which showed a significant improvement for those with higher testosterone over those with lower testosterone.

My most recent new lump came while my testosterone was at 263 and I was taking 1200mg of pentox daily for two months. Thinking I need to get my testosterone fixed quickly.  

MattFoley

egghead, I would first try the natural ways to raise it as I outlined earlier and then if that doesn't work or help, then talk to your doctor about replacement therapy. Or, you can do both at the same time. Either way, I'm glad you're addressing this issue.
Got Testosterone?

George999

Body fat (Omental) is notorious for converting testosterone into estrogen.  Getting rid of excess omental fat can raise testosterone levels AND lower estrogen levels at the same time.  Getting DHEA-S levels checked and supplementing with DHEA as appropriate can also be helpful to some degree.  - George

MattFoley

Well said, George.

There are also some vitamin supplements, i.e DIM, and prescription medicines, i.e. Anastrazole, Clomid, Tamoxifen, etc. that can be used as well to keep estrogen in check so the testosterone can do its' job. Interestingly enough, Tamoxifen has been used in test subjects to treat Peyronie's and in cases that are less than 4 months old, there appears to be some benefit. Nevertheless, a cooperative urologist may very well prescribe Tamoxifen at the insistence of his patient in a dual effort as part of a testosterone cycle and to treat Peyronie's. I know I'll be trying to get my doctor's cooperation in that regard on 3/1.



Got Testosterone?

MattFoley

Here's some interesting info regarding low testosterone and fibrosis:


As men age they experience a fall in the level of circulating androgens in their body. Low androgen levels could also be linked to other factors such the hair loss treatment finasteride (propecia) which blocks conversion of testosterone to the DHT which has a greater affinity for the androgen receptor.

This can lead to difficulties achieving or maintaining an erection and evidence suggests it may ultimately lead to changes in the structure of the penis.

There is a large body of scientific evidence which shows that androgens are important for maintaining the function and structure of penile nerves, blood vessels, muscle, connective tissue matrix, and the tunica albuginea.

Androgens are known to act on nerves which control erectile function. Studies on castrated animals have shown deterioration of cavernosal and dorsal nerves which was reversed by testosterone replacement restoring erectile capacity.

Low levels of androgens are also known to damage the lining of blood vessels in the penis inhibiting their ability to produce nitric oxide (NO) which is a substance which plays an important role in producing erections. The erectile dysfunction drug Viagra works by increasing NO levels.

Similar studies have also shown that androgens maintain penile smooth muscle content. Loss of smooth muscle due to androgen deprivation caused lower intracavernosal pressure, in other words lower blood pressure inside the penis and weaker softer erections. Similar changes to penile muscle have been seen in humans suffering from erectile dysfunction with the severity of their symptoms correlating with the degree of muscle loss. Worryingly the smooth muscle in the corpora cavernosa (the vascular inner part of the penis that fills with blood during erection) seems to be replaced by connective tissue which leads to fibrosis. This would prevent the normal expansion of the penis during erection leading to a diminished erect penis size.

A similar process occurs in the tunica albuginea which is an elastic outer layer surrounding the corpora cavernosa. This layer is normally rich in elastic fibres which allow it to expand easily when the inner corpora cavernosa blows up like a balloon as it becomes engorged with blood during erection. However in castrated animals the elastic fibres have been seen to be replaced with inelastic collagen. So again the penis is unable to expand normally.


While it is known that androgen replacement therapy such as testosterone injections and gels like Testim® and Androgel® can improve symptoms of erectile dysfunction an as yet unexplored avenue of research is the use of testosterone gel applied directly to the penis. This could produce higher local concentrations of androgens in the tissues most affected and help to reverse the structural penile changes.

This could even be of some benefit to individuals suffering erectile problems due to finasteride use. Although DHT has higher affinity for the androgen receptor and not all of the testosterone would be converted to DHT, testosterone still has action at the androgen receptor and the high local concentrations delivered by direct application could be enough to substitute for the loss of DHT.

Such studies have not yet been carried out however, so the benefits of this theoretical treatment are not currently known. However clearly more research needs to be carried out.


Reference:

Original article: http://www.doctorpg.org/health-testosterone-gel.html

Traish AM. Androgens play a pivotal role in maintaining penile tissue architecture and erection: a review. J Androl. 2009 Jul-Aug;30(4):363-9 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18802199

Weapons of penile smooth muscle destruction: androgen deficiency promotes accumulation of adipocytes in the corpus Cavernosum http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16390736
Got Testosterone?

egghead

Urologist put me on clomid last week. Hopes my T goes up in a month.  

pizzaman

It should be mandatory that every man with suspected Peyronie's have his T checked.

Hawk

I dare say that if you check 100 men that are 50 years old that 80 of them would have what many would call low testosterone.  Two of those 80 would have Peyronies Disease.
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

MattFoley

egghead, Clomid will definitely help your Luteinizing Hormone (LH) level. A low LH hormone level is indicative of secondary hypogonadism (pituitary gland issue). Also, human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) is another tool that can help in that regard.


pizzaman, I completely agree. But I wouldn't stop there. I think a full blood panel is certainly in order. A full blood panel will reveal a massive amount of information about your whole body that can be used in not only treatment for Peyronie's but for other issues as well.


Hawk, I agree. However, I don't think we need be concerned about low testosterone in of itself as much as we need to know how low testosterone plays a part in those of us who have Peyronie's. Low testosterone does not automatically cause Peyronie's or there would be a substantial part of the male population of the world afflicted.

The study I previously posted indicates a correlation between Peyronie's and low testosterone and there's one ongoing clinical trial that is attempting to discover how TRT can help in Peyronie's therapy. My doctors have included TRT as part of my Peyronie's therapy. Even putting Peyronie's aside for a moment, raising your testosterone to a normal level either naturally or by TRT has many benefits as well that should be explored on an individual level with their doctor.
Got Testosterone?

Hawk

I don't deny that low t can be one of the 40 contributing factors with Peyronies Disease. As your case proves however correcting t levels does little to fix the problem.  Also many men with Peyronies Disease have low t levels.  Many men chosen at random have low t level.  Looking at low t with some interest is useful. Focusing or dwelling on it leads people to miss the big picture.
 
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

George999

I think an additional danger here with Testosterone is that we can end up treating the symptoms rather than addressing the causes.  For example, men who are obese or overweight will end up with low Testosterone.  So why simply use a Testosterone patch as a bandaid when a regimen of exercise and weight loss will not only help correct Testosterone levels, but also convey MANY other health benefits that a Testosterone patch could not possibly convey?  Low Testosterone can also be a result of low DHEA which is a much more fundamental hormone than Testosterone.  Thus there are more benefits from raising DHEA levels (enhanced immune system, etc) than simply slapping on a Testosterone patch.  Western medicine tends to be extremely lazy in this regard.  Instead of checking a sick person's basic underlying health, a thousand superficial medicines are prescribed to treat each and every one of the various resulting symptoms as if each was itself an isolated disease state.  Of course that way the doctors make lots of money, the drug companies make lots of money, the surgeons make lots of money, and the patient feels very well cared for (and continues to get sicker and sicker).  I am NOT against HRT.  I believe it has a place.  But I also believe it is often abused as a short cut to patient health, while multiple underlying issues remain unaddressed and basically ignored.  - George

egghead

Obviously, addressing lowT isn't the only action one should take when dealing with peyronies. But it is an important one for me personally. I've tried to do it naturally and it didn't work out. Time for some drugs + my natural methods..  

MattFoley

QuoteAs your case proves however correcting t levels does little to fix the problem.

If you mean my personal case then I would have to say it's far too early to say whether higher testosterone will have a significant impact. I can say for sure that the angle has improved. It was a solid 90% but now it's closer to 50%. Whether TRT had anything to do with or whether it worked synergistically with Pentox et al, I don't know but I'm not leaving any options out of this situation.

Clearly, there is serious medical consideration being given to TRT for Peyronie's since there's a study currently being conducted addressing the connection.


QuoteAlso many men with Peyronie's Disease have low t levels.  Many men chosen at random have low t level.  Looking at low t with some interest is useful. Focusing or dwelling on it leads people to miss the big picture.

I agree but I don't think anyone is suggesting that we should only focus on it. As we all know, Peyronie's is somewhat of a mystery and it's always best to take a holistic approach to resolving the matter than rely on only one possible solution.
Got Testosterone?

Hawk

In reference to testosterone you said
Quote from: MattFoley on March 19, 2013, 05:57:29 PM
I don't think anyone is suggesting that we should only focus on it. As we all know, Peyronie's is somewhat of a mystery and it's always best to take a holistic approach to resolving the matter than rely on only one possible solution.

I wholeheartedly agree with that and I am glad to see you post it since I think many if not most readers get the impression that you dwell on one aspect, that being low testosterone testing and replacement.
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

MattFoley

Sure, I appreciate that completely.

For me, low testosterone was only one element in the "perfect storm" that caused my Peyronie's. Undoubtedly, my stupidity in starting to smoke for the first time in my life only a few months earlier and prescription pain killers made it all possible. The smoking and the pain killers wrecked my testosterone, the smoking clogged up my blood vessels, and the pain killers killed my erections. The perfect freaking storm.

I think they can get more men to stop smoking by putting this on the outside of every carton of cigarettes:


Warning: Smoking may cause erectile dysfunction, permanently bend your penis, & make your life a living nightmare.


I think that may motivate a few guys to stop smoking, don't you agree?

 
Got Testosterone?

Hawk

If the truth were know it would probably stop more men from smoking than a warning for lung cancer.
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

egghead

I was able to get my t level up to 846 from 240 in one month with clomid. I am feeling great. Let the healing begin:)  

MattFoley

Niiiicccceee!! :)

Clomid is another way of fighting hypogonadism. Clomid is used to treat secondary hypogonadism. So instead of adding testosterone, you are suppressing levels of estrogen. Sounds like it's working just fine. :)

For those that are looking for natural testosterone stimulation, I've posted a whole list of some excellent supplements that can help achieve that goal. If you choose only one, make it D-Aspartic Acid.

Clomid is a med that bodybuilders use as part of their Post Cycle Therapy (PCT) that begins after the last steroid has been eliminated from the body. It's used to protect the gains the bodybuilder has achieved and to protect against estrogen rebounding and to help stimulate natural testosterone production.

Clomid can also be used by non-bodybuilders to help re-balance testosterone and estrogen.

Lastly, if you're looking for a non-steroid type of drug to help stimulate natural testosterone enhancement, I recommend something called, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG). HCG is injected using an insulin needle sub-q into your belly fat. You inject every 4 days. It will boost your Luteinizing Hormone (LH) level.

When I inject, within a couple of hours I become very aggressive and angry and it raises my libido a bit as well. One odd side effect is how my pubic hairs explode and grow rapidly over the course of the next couple of days. It is an essential tool for any bodybuilder who is on steroids for any moderate to long term period. It keeps the testes producing testosterone which in turn keeps the testicles from shrinking.

If you're suffering from low testosterone, there are any number of tools to help someone get back normal levels.


God bless us, guys.
Got Testosterone?

MattFoley

    Hey guys, here's my main testosterone info for everyone that's looking to enhance their testosterone levels naturally.

    I highly recommend that as a first step that you have a full blood panel done in order to get a clear idea of where you are health-wise as well as with testosterone. A full blood panel will tell you a great deal about your health in general and is a great way to figure out why you are having testosterone deficiency and what might be causing the problem. There might be a situation where your estrogen level is excessively high and as such, following the "testosterone enhancing lifestyle" described below is great but depending on your results, the doctor might order testosterone replacement therapy and estrogen blockers. You're only gonna learn that from a full blood panel.

    Have your doctor check the following:

    Testosterone Free
    Testosterone Total
    Thyroid Panels (T3, T4, TSH)
    IGF-1
    CMP Profile
    Lipid Profile
    CBC w/Diff profile
    PSA
    C-Reactive Protein
    DHEA-sulfate
    LH
    Estrogens
    Vitamin D

    The results will help act as road map to how the problem should be approached.

    Here's what I did:

1. Supplements

I started taking the following supplements. These supplements are designed to boost testosterone and nitric oxide. They will naturally raise your testosterone. Within a short period of time, you should feel a surge in testosterone that should raise your libido, give you firmer erections and could very reasonably have a positive impact on your Peyronie's:

D-Aspartic Acid

Produced in the pituitary gland and the testicles, this amino acid (also known as D-aspartate) stimulates the release of luteinizing hormone, which boosts testosterone production and acts on Leydig cells (special cells in the testicles) to increase testosterone production as well as the production of sperm. One study, published in a 2009 issue of the journal Reproductive Biology and Endocrinology, found that subjects who had taken a D-aspartate supplement daily for 12 days increased their testosterone levels by more than 40 percent.

Suggested use: Take 3 grams in the morning


Tribulus Terrestris

This herb, also known as puncturevine, grows in North America and Asia and has been used for centuries to treat sexual dysfunction. The active compound in Tribulus is a saponin called protodioscin, which increases the release of luteinizing hormone from the pituitary gland, thereby boosting testosterone production by the testicles. But protodioscin has also been found to boost immune function, which is important because higher testosterone levels often suppress the immune system. By taking Tribulus, you can boost testosterone levels without increasing your risk of getting sick and missing gym time.

Suggested use: 500 to 1,000 milligrams 30 to 60 minutes before sexual activity and/or workouts. Use for 6-8 weeks, then go off it for 4 weeks before cycling back on again.


Fenugreek

Native to southern Europe, this herb is often used in cooking. It boosts testosterone levels because it contains high amounts of furostanolic saponins, similar to those found in Tribulus terrestris. These phytochemicals boost test production by increasing luteinizing-hormone secretion. One study, published in February 2011 in the journal Phytotherapy Research, showed that healthy young men taking a fenugreek
supplement for six weeks experienced a boost in their sex drive, sexual performance and energy levels. The researchers concluded that this was because of a positive effect on the guys' testosterone levels. Another study, published in the October 2010 issue of the Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition, reported that trained men taking fenugreek for eight weeks almost doubled their increase in bench-press and leg-press strength, as compared to those taking a placebo, and they also lost a significant amount of body fat, while those taking the placebo did not.

Suggested use: 500 to 1,000 milligrams an hour before sexual activity and/or 30 to 60 minutes before workouts. I use Solaray Fenugreek Extract -- 350 mg.


Damiana

Also known as Turnera diffusa, damiana is native to Mexico and Central and South America, where, for centuries, it has been used as an aphrodisiac. Recent research from the University of Mississippi reported that damiana contains the active ingredients pinocembrin and acacetin, which are potent inhibitors of the aromatase enzyme. Aromatase converts testosterone into estrogen, so by blunting it, damiana keeps testosterone levels higher.

Suggested use: 50 to 500 milligrams 30 to 60 minutes before sexual activity and/or workouts. I use Solaray Damiana Leaves -- 370 mg


Long Jack (Tongkat Ali)

Raises testosterone by stimulating Leydig cells. Second, it frees up testosterone in the bloodstream. Third, reduces levels of the catabolic hormone cortisol.

Suggested use: 100-300 mg of eurycoma per dose and take it in the morning, 30 minutes before workouts and before bed. I use Long Jack PowerMax 200 -- 200 mg


Forskolin

Directly stimulates Leydig cells. Activates the enzyme, adenylate cycclase, which stimulates testosterone production and fat loss. In a study by the University of Kansas (Lawrence), subjects taking forskolin for 12 weeks experienced higher testosterone levels and greater fat loss than those taking a placebo.

Suggest use: Look for products that supply 20-50 mg of forskolin and take it 2-3 times per day before meals. I use Forskolin 50.


Vitamin D3

Vitamin D is produced in the body from cholesterol, as is testosterone, it follows that higher vitamin D levels can encourage higher testosterone levels in men. In fact, Austrian scientists from the Medical University of Graz reported that men with higher blood levels of vitamin D had significantly higher levels of testosterone.

Suggested use: 5,000 IU per day, taken with meals, to maximize all D's benefits.


Zinc

Zinc is very important for the production of natural testosterone because Zinc prevents testosterone from being converted into estrogen (the female hormone) by making the enzyme aromatase not work plus Zinc itself turns estrogen into testosterone and Zinc helps produce healthier sperm and higher sperm counts so actually low levels of zinc can cause low testosterone levels. Foods high in Zinc include oysters (a natural aphrodisiac), liver, seafood, poultry, nuts & seeds.

Suggested use: 100mg of Zinc daily.


Omega-3 Fish Oil

Fish oil has been shown to lower SHBG and increase production of Luteinizing Hormone (the hormone responsible for triggering the testes to produce T).

Suggested use: I use Mega EFA® Omega-3 EPA & DHA Fish Oil -- 2,126 mg per serving


Citrulline

This amino acid is so closely related to arginine that in the body, it is actually converted into arginine. However, citrulline may boost Nitric Oxide (NO) levels even better than its cousin because cells in the digestive tract are always starving for arginine, and they tend to grab it before it can get into the bloodstream and be converted into NO. The intestines are not interested in citrulline in the slightest, however, which means that it passes straight through them and into the bloodstream. One study, published in 2008 in the British Journal of Clinical Pharmacology, found that when subjects took equal amounts of citrulline and arginine, the citrulline increased levels of arginine and
NO in the blood more than taking arginine did. Check this out: Pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic properties of oral L-citrulline and L-arginine: impact on nitric oxide metabolism

Suggested use: 3 to 5 grams 30 to 60 minutes before sexual activity and workouts.


Glycine ProPionyl-l-carnitine

GPLC is a patented compound that combines the amino acid glycine with a form of carnitine, which has been modified to provide the body an extra source of energy and to assist with uptake by muscle tissue. Glycine and carnitine are known to boost levels of nitric oxide in the body, most likely by increasing the activity of nitric-oxide synthase, the enzyme that creates NO. In fact, a study published in December 2007 in the Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition reported that trained male weightlifters supplementing with GPLC for four weeks had 30 percent higher NO levels than when they were given a placebo.

Suggested use: 3 to 4.5 grams 30 to 60 minutes before sexual activity and workouts. I use GPLC Glycine Propionyl L-Carnitine HCl-GlycoCarn 1000 mg PLC per serving


PycnoGenol

Extracted from the French maritime pine tree, this patented flavonoid is a potent antioxidant. That means that one way that it can boost NO levels is by neutralizing the free radicals that break down NO. But research shows that Pycnogenol also boosts NO levels by increasing the activity of nitric-oxide synthase, allowing for more arginine to be converted into NO and keeping levels of NO higher for longer.

Suggested use: 50 to 100 milligrams 30 to 60 minutes before sexual activity and workouts. I use Pycnogenol® -- 100 mg


Horny Goat Weed

Also known as "Epimedium", but its common name is pretty fitting — horny goat weed has been used for centuries as an aphrodisiac. But it was only in the last decade that scientists figured out exactly how it works. Researchers from the University of Milan discovered that horny goat weed contains a phytochemical called icariin that inhibits phosphodiesterase-5, an enzyme that normally breaks down NO. By inhibiting this enzyme, horny goat weed helps the body maintain higher NO levels for longer. Because this is the precise mechanism by which drugs like Viagra and Cialis work to boost erections, horny goat weed can truly be called herbal Viagra.

Suggested use: 500 milligrams 30 to 60 minutes before sexual activity and workouts

   

2. Lifestyle

a. Get at least 8 hours of sleep.

b. Do not smoke at all. Smoking murders testosterone (see Testosterone and cortisol in relationship to dietary nutrients and resistance exercise]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2154652?dopt=Abstract).Try to moderate your drinking since drinking alcohol decreases zinc levels in your body.

c. Have morning sex (if you partner is willing, of course). Just having an erection increases your testosterone. And you already get a surge of T when you wake up, so this will bump it up even further. If you need it, take Cialis or Viagra. I prefer Cialis because it lasts 36 hours. I try and take a low dose of 5 mg. everyday.

d. Try to avoid Xenoestrogens. Xenoestrogens are man-made estrogens that are found in things like pesticides, artificial growth hormones & steroids, air fresheners and plastic containers and these xenoestrogens will increase your levels of the female hormone estrogen while lowering testosterone so eat more organic fruits & vegetables that are free of pesticides and if you do buy your fruits & vegetables at a regular grocery store make sure you wash them to lower your chances of consuming any xenoestrogens and eat more naturally raised meats instead of eating beef, chicken, pork and even milk that was raised using artificial growth hormones and steroids and use glass products to store food & water instead of plastic since plastic products tend to produce xenoestrogens that'll get into your water & food especially when heated and even some canned foods contain plastic coatings that contain xenoestrogens and don't use any perfumes, colognes, or air fresheners that have parabens listed as one of the ingredients. Parabens are xenoestrogens.

Please note: It'll be fairly hard for you to 100% completely avoid all xenoestrogens but if you follow the other tips you'll still be able to naturally increase your testosterone while getting rid of excess estrogen without having to worry so much about trying to avoid xenoestrogens. Also note: Since most xenoestrogens accumulate in your body fat - your best defense against xenoestrogens is to lose body fat.



3. Diet

a. Eat a serving of good fat. As your fat intake goes up, so do your T levels. Aim to get at least 30% of your calories from fat and spread your consumption of it throughout the day. Mono-saturated fats, the kind found in nuts, fish, olives, olive oil, seeds, and avocados-are particularly beneficial to your testosterone level (and your health). http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/82/1/49 Testosterone and cortisol in relationship to dietary nutrients and resistance exercise)) Also, don't be afraid of saturated fat; that whole business about it raising your cholesterol and causing heart disease is a bunch of rubbish. http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth&channel=health&category=heart.disease&conitem=a03ddd2eaab85110VgnVCM10000013281eac____

b. Eat a serving of animal protein. Vegetarian diets have been proven to lower your T levels. Effect of a vegetarian diet and dexamethasone on... [Cancer Lett. 1979] - PubMed - NCBI))

c. Eat a serving of cruciferous vegetables. Veggies like broccoli, cauliflower, radishes, turnips, cabbage and brussel sprouts contain Diindolylmethane which helps balance your estrogen and testosterone levels and increases the amount of free circulating T in your body. Avoid grapefruit since it makes it harder for your body to break down estrogen.

Here's an example of something I do:

Spinach/Spring Salad Mix. This is the base of my salad. Spinach and other leafy green vegetables contain minerals like magnesium and zinc, which have been shown to aid in testosterone production (study on magnesium, and another; study on zinc)

Meat. Meat, particularly beef, provides our bodies with the protein it needs to create muscle (more muscle = more T) and the fats and cholesterol to make testosterone.

Nuts. Usually a handful of Brazil nuts or walnuts or almonds. Nuts are little fat bombs that provide the cholesterol that Leydig cells need for T production. One study suggest that the selenium in Brazil nuts boosts testosterone. Just don't go crazy with them.

Avocado/Olives. Avocados and olives are a great source of the good fats we need for healthy testosterone production.
 
Broccoli. Every now and then I'd throw some broccoli into the salad. Broccoli contains high levels of indoles, a food compound that has been shown to reduce the bad estrogen in our bodies that sap testosterone levels.
 
Olive Oil. I topped my salad off with lots of olive oil. Research suggests that olive oil helps your Leydig cells (which produce testosterone) absorb cholesterol better. And as I've mentioned a few times, our Leydig cells need cholesterol to make T. More cholesterol absorption = more testosterone.

Balsamic Vinegar. Mostly for taste. It's also supposed to help keep your insulin in check.[/li][/list]

d. Do no eat anything with soy in it. You're going to have to read labels. It will blow your mind how many things contain soy these days.



4. Exercise

Do resistance training. Lift some weights and do compound exercises like squats, dead-lifts, dips, rows, and pull-ups. They'll boost your testosterone more than bicep curls. You also need to use heavy weights and short sets.


Conclusion: The end result of all this was my testosterone increased by 60%, my mood changed to positive, I'm in better physical condition than I have been in almost 15 years, and my libido is great.


Taking it to the next level...

In some situations, your doctor might suggest testosterone replacement therapy. If that's the case, don't waste you time and money on things like Androgel and Axiron. Either get the pellets implanted or get shots done at least once a week.

If your estrogen is too high, the doctor may suggest an estrogen blocker like Clomid, Tamoxifen, Aromasin, or Anastrazole. Interestingly enough, Tamoxifen was studied early on as treatment for Peyronie's because of it's incredible ability to block estrogen receptors. The study of it did not go very far because in my opinion, it was only a partial solution whereas I believe that Peyronie's needs to be attacked from multiple directions.

I'm planning on off-label use of Human Growth Hormone (Somatropin) as my budget allows in the next month or so. I believe that HGH will help heal from Peyronie's because of its' amazing ability to speed up healing and its' anti-aging properties, which include increased libido, greater lean muscle growth, and fat loss.


Please feel free to ask if you have any questions. Thank you and God bless.







Additional References:

How to Increase Your Testosterone | The Art of Manliness http://www.artofmanliness.com/2009/06/03/30-days-to-a-better-man-day-4-increase-your-testosterone/

How to increase testosterone naturally http://www.nowloss.com/ways-to-increase-testosterone-levels-naturally-without-using-steroids.htm

How to Increase Testosterone Naturally | The Art of Manliness http://www.artofmanliness.com/2013/01/18/how-to-increase-testosterone-naturally/
Got Testosterone?

funnyfarm

Matt have you tried pine tree pollen, I heard this was the most effective to boost T.

This book is excellent:

The Natural Testosterone Plan: For Sexual Health and Energy: Stephen Harrod Buhner: 9781594771682: Amazon.com: Books
When you are in tune with the unknown, the known is peaceful.

MattFoley

Hi funnyfarm,

Thanks for the tip on pine tree pollen.

I'm not familiar with that but I did look it up real quick and sounds good. I just don't know how to use it so I tried finding it at vitacost.com and bodybuilding.com but I came up empty handed. I'll have to look into it a bit more.

The info I did post comes from a combination of an article from a muscle & fitness magazine and some other sources.

If you find any good online sources of info for it, please let me know. Thank you again for the heads up on it.  
Got Testosterone?

rd

Just a note from my experience with Tribulus. I took it many times before developing peyronies and often wonder if it could have been part of the cause. I use to get super hard erections on it almost to hard. I remember one session with this girl I use to hook up with and I just couldn't get enough while on tribulus. Even after orgasm I felt like my erection got even harder to the point sometimes it almost hurt.