grapefruit juice

[Sarah]

Hi ,
   Was wondering if anyone else has read that grapefruit juice ups the absorbtion of coq10 by 50%.
obviously it would affect all other supplements, prescriptions etc. but it might be worth taking q10 on its own (between times of the other pills) with a glass of juice!

[james1947]

Sarah

Can you post a link to the article regarding the grapefruit juice?
I would like to read regarding the subject.

James

[George999]

You have to be extremely you careful with grapefruit juice IF you are taking ANY prescription drugs.  Grapefruit juice inhibits certain pathways in the liver that degrade certain types of active ingredients found it some drugs.  If you use grapefruit juice in combination with these drugs, it can result in a dangerous drug overdose.  Vitamin D, on the otherhand, has the reverse effect.  People taking high amounts of vitamin D increase the rate at which theys drugs are broken down and thus may require higher doses of those drugs in order for them to be effective.  Vitamin D's effect is not as well known or notorious as that of grapefruit because it does not present the danger of drug overdose.  It is, nevertheless, an issue that patients should be aware of.   - George

[ashtown]

From reading your comments above George it makes me think I should be dropping the vitamin D because it might be stopping the Pentox and Cialis from working as well as they could.

[George999]

That depends on your vitamin D blood levels.  When vitamin D blood levels are in a healthy range (50-70ng/ml), dropping them to achieve better effectiveness from medication would almost certainly result in a net loss rather than a gain.  Because in gain in the effectiveness of the medication would be more than offset by the harm caused from lower vitamin D levels.  When one lowers vitamin D levels there are significant indications that health and life expectancy of negatively affected.  It is certainly not a trade I would be willing to make.  However, it is important for doctors to know these things so they can up dosages if necessary for a given individual, especially in cases of antibiotics or blood pressure meds , etc.

The other issue of course is whether Pentox is even affected by grapefruit juice or vitamin D.  To find out, just look up warnings on grapefruit juice drug interactions since the same pathway is involved.  CoQ10 is not even at issue since one would be far better off just to take more CoQ10 to compensate.

[goodluck]

I will just add that Vit D modulates the immune system and anyone with an autoimmune issue would be advised to get their levels measured and supplement with D3 low.  Most ND's suggest a range of 50-100.  Most lab ranges are 30-80.

It is better absorbed when taken with some fat.  A teaspoon of olive oil  works or take your fish oils at the same time.

GoodLuck

[ashtown]

I'm in generally good health apart from the Peyronies and I get a certain amount of vitamin D from my normal diet. Until now I've been taking 2 tablets per day of vitamin D + calcium, which is 100% RDA. I may just drop that to one tablet per day to ensure I'm not taking too much vitamin D and potentially blocking the Pentox.  

[George999]

ashtown, Standard Calcium + D tablets contain no more than 400IU of Vitamin D.  I was taking 12,000IU of Vitamin D most of the time I was using Pentox and Pentox worked fine for me.  The affect of vitamin D in suppressing drugs has to do with how much Vitamin D you have in your blood, NOT on how much you are taking.  Just exposing yourself to the sun produces thousands of IU of vitamin D but that dose not mean I am going to start going out only at night.  My warning was to people who are taking thousands of IUs of vitamin D, not to anyone taking multi vitamin or calcium tablets.  In your case, IF you do not have sufficient vitamin D in your bloodstream (50-80ng/ml) which can ONLY be known by a blood test, that is going to make your Peyronie's worse by far than any amount of vitamin D you might be taking orally.  - George

[goodluck]

This is related to Vit D and calcium intake.  It references the importance of K2 in your diet.  We have mentioned this before in other posts as K2 helps direct calcium into your bones and teeth, keeping it away from your soft tissues.

Last year I had a calcified rotator cuff tendon and my doctor said there is nothng I can do.  It may go away on its own but it is unlikely.   He offered surgery if it does not improve enough.

I did not throw in the towel.  I took 90-200mg of K2 (MK -7 version). Along with some natural anti-inflamatories as needed and streching exercises my shoulder is doing much better.  I notices the largest improvement when I upped the dose to 200mg.  It may be coincedental but  I avoided the surgery he was suggesting.  I believe much of it has to do with taking K2.

K2 is important to help prevent arterial sclerosis(hardening of the arteries) and peyronies plax from calcifying.  This is an interesting interview on using K2.  Although K2 is a fat soluable vitamin, they are saying they have not found any toxicity from taking alot of it.

Vitamin K2, Vitamin D, and Calcium: A Winning Combo

Good Luck

[Hawk]

K2 is important to help prevent arterial sclerosis(hardening of the arteries) and peyronies plax from calcifying.  Good Luck

GL,

I agree with a lot of what you say but I would like to see the objective evidence for your quote above.  If there isn't any real evidence then I think it would better serve reader to express it as a personal opinion and explain why you believe that, rather than expressing it as a fact.

[George999]

One REALLY doesn't have to look far to find plenty of evidence for effectiveness of K2.  And K2 NOT ONLY prevents calcification of soft tissue, it also helps prevent AND reverse osteoporosis.  HOWEVER, there is obviously an important caveat.  While K2 has a preventative and even therapeutic effect on soft tissue calcification, there is ALWAYS the potential that those metabolic forces favoring soft tissue calcification can overwhelm the preventative effect of K2.  Thus its an important tool but NOT a silver bullet.  - George

Jpn J Pharmacol. 1997 Oct;75(2):135-43.
Effects of vitamin K2 (menatetrenone) on atherosclerosis and blood coagulation in hypercholesterolemic rabbits.
Kawashima H, Nakajima Y, Matubara Y, Nakanowatari J, Fukuta T, Mizuno S, Takahashi S, Tajima T, Nakamura T.
Source

Pharmacological Evaluation Section, Tokyo Research Laboratoires, Eisai Co., Ltd., Koishikawa, Japan.
Abstract

Gamma-Carboxyglutamic acid (Gla)-containing protein, synthesized in the presence of vitamin K, has been found in atherogenic plaques, but the pharmacological effect of vitamin K on atherosclerosis is unclear. We examined whether vitamin K2 (menatetrenone) could affect the progression of both atherosclerosis and hypercoagulability in hypercholesterolemic rabbits. Vitamin K2 in daily doses of 1, 10 and 100 mg/kg was given with a 0.5% cholesterol diet for 10 weeks to 8 rabbits each. The plasma levels of total-cholesterol in the vitamin K2-treated groups were clearly lower than that of the hypercholesterolemic control group. The excessive dose of vitamin K2, even at the high dose of 100 mg/kg/day for 10 weeks, did not accelerate the progression of atherosclerosis and did not promote the coagulative tendency in the rabbits. In contrast, the vitamin K2 treatment (1 to 10 mg/kg/day) suppressed the progression of atherosclerotic plaques, intima-thickening and pulmonary atherosclerosis, the increase of ester-cholesterol deposition in the aorta, and both the elevation in plasma factor X level and increase in Hepaplastin test value in the rabbits. These results indicate that the pharmacological dose of vitamin K2 prevents both the progression of atherosclerosis and the coagulative tendency by reducing the total-cholesterol, lipid peroxidation and factor X activity in plasma, and the ester-cholesterol deposition in the aorta in hypercholesterolemic rabbits.

[Hawk]

My question was about the declaration that it is important to keep Peyronies Disease plaque from calcifying.

Is there a study that establishes that?  Is there any of the well know Peyronies Disease doctors that even suggest that?

[ashtown]

Apparently vitamin K promotes blood clotting but I don't know if that would negatively affect blood flow for our purposes with Peyronies. Probably not I'm guessing.  

[George999]

Vitamin K1 is involved in clotting factors and Vitamin K2 is involved in calcium metabolism.  They are two completely different nutrients.    - George

[George999]

Hawk, We ALL know there are ONLY a handful of substances that have been tested against Peyronie's.  Vitamin K2, however, is well enough understood these days that it can safely be assumed to be ONE FACTOR in any kind of SOFT TISSUE calcification.  Whether or not it is a DECIDING factor, of course, is anyones guess.  But it is so inexpensive that in my case I have simply concluded that it is not worth taking the risk.  But I don't think ANYONE is trying to claim that it is on the same level as Pentoxifylline which has been SPECIFICALLY demonstrated to be able to DISSOLVE PEYRONIE'S CALCIFICATIONS.  So MY advice remains the same:  Go first to those things we KNOW work such as PENTOX, CoQ10, CIALLIS, ALC, and VED, etc.  Only then go to those things that are likely to be helpful but NOT PROVEN to be helpful like K2.  - George

[ashtown]

This article on the so called French paradox may be of interest The secret to why the French live longer - Roquefort cheese - Telegraph

[George999]

I strongly suspect that the whole "war on fat" is going to eventually prove just as bogus as the drive to replace butter with transfat laden stick margarine promoted by the corn industry was in the 60's.  Same thing with sodium.  The problem IN MY OPINION was never really natural fats which people had consumed from antiquity, but rather unnatural recently introduced refined carbohydrates.  That is why, even with all the intervention, cardio-vascular disease is still the leading cause of death and disability in the world today.  - George

[ashtown]

We keep well away from any low fat margarine spreads. The fact that flies won't even go near it ought to tell us something.

The book Pure, White and Deadly by John Yudkin was very interesting in that he felt the real danger food is sugar.  

[MattFoley]

I always laugh when people tell me I need carbs for energy. I have more energy now with a low carb, high protein & fat diet than ever in my life.

[Hawk]

Obviously your body can break any macro-nutrient down into energy, or your own fat or muscle for that matter.  The only question is how fast and how sustained.  This has little to do with the topic but as an interesting point, the fastest 5 mile training run I ever ran was during a five day total food fast.  I was shocked.

I have found that almost everyone that criticizes carbs is really criticizing refined carbs.  Everybody agrees refined carbs are bad.  It is pretty much a no-brainer.  It is pretty much like indicting fat by using trans fats as your example.  

The problem with a true low carb diets is that they seriously restricts the fruits and vegetables essential for the wide spectrum of antioxidants and other nutrients essential to health.  There is no substitute for them and no way to get them in a pill.

[MattFoley]

I can't handle complex carbs anymore because all they do is make me sleepy but sugar carbs like grapes give me great energy.

I still eat vegetables and fruit but to a limited degree. There's nothing wrong with adding fruits and vegetables in my diet as long as I don't get crazy and overload on sugar based carbs. Especially refined sugars.

My body went through ketosis in 2/12 and after that, my body uses protein and fat for energy.

I exercise a great deal. I'm a serious bodybuilder again after years of wasting my time.

I've also added yogurt into my diet because of the probiotic effects and the sexual enhancement that they found in lab rats. Here's my favorite line from that study:

"It turns out their testicles were 5 percent bigger than those of their non-yogurt eating counterparts, and 15 percent bigger than those of mice on a diet designed to mimic "junk food" in humans. And in this case, bigger was better."

Bigger balls? Count me in!!  

Check it out:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=real-males-eat-yogurt

[ashtown]

"It turns out their testicles were 5 percent bigger than those of their non-yogurt eating counterparts, and 15 percent bigger than those of mice on a diet designed to mimic "junk food" in humans. And in this case, bigger was better."

Bigger balls? Count me in!!  

Check it out:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=real-males-eat-yogurt

I think this takes body building dedication to a new level    

[George999]

The problem with a true low carb diets is that they seriously restricts the fruits and vegetables essential for the wide spectrum of antioxidants and other nutrients essential to health.  There is no substitute for them and no way to get them in a pill.

So very true.  And this is a big part of the reason that extreme diets do not work.  Many people DO get much of the WRONG KIND of carbs (refined, hybridized, GMO'd, etc), the WRONG KIND of fat (trans, hydrogenated, overly processed, etc) and the WRONG KIND of protein (from inappropriately fed livestock, inappropriately cooked resulting in AGE contamination, etc) and LITTLE OR ZERO fiber and that is the problem that needs to be addressed.  - George

[MattFoley]

And fortunately for me, I'm not eating crappy carbs, I get the right kind of fats, and I eat lots of good quality protein including whey protein drinks. I still get good fiber into my diet because otherwise I would be constipated.

The problem is that people are eating bad carbs, bad fats, and getting small amounts of protein.

Whatever I'm doing it must be right since I'm in the best health since Clinton was President.    

[George999]

I found this recent LEF editorial fascinating.  If true it could explain a lot of the underpinnings of chronic systemic inflammation.

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2013/jan2013_Are-You-Cooking-Yourself-to-Death_01.htm?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=normal

And here is a bit of good news on the cancer front:

http://www.kanziuscancerresearch.org/research/research-updates/kanzius-researchers-go-a-new-direction-to-get-to-human-trials-sooner

[swolf]

Very interesting about foods being cooked at lower temperatures being better for you. I prefer lightly steaming vegetables and really like the ease of cooking meals in a crockpot (low temps for hours). Of course I have a really hard time sticking to this, especially when I'm strapped for time (and I work a lot of nights), but maybe this will renew my focus in that area.  

[skunkworks]

I've also added yogurt into my diet because of the probiotic effects and the sexual enhancement that they found in lab rats. Here's my favorite line from that study:

"It turns out their testicles were 5 percent bigger than those of their non-yogurt eating counterparts, and 15 percent bigger than those of mice on a diet designed to mimic "junk food" in humans. And in this case, bigger was better."

Bigger balls? Count me in!!  

Check it out:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=real-males-eat-yogurt

Just remember rats are not humans and the results of studies run on them should not be assumed to transfer to humans.

[MattFoley]

Just remember rats are not humans and the results of studies run on them should not be assumed to transfer to humans.

There's a reason why they use rats in experiments: Their systems have great similarity to humans. Sure, not 100%, but test results of exams done on rats are usually reliable as a determination to how similar tests would work on humans.