Ultrasound & Extracorporeal Shockwave Therapy (ESWT)

[Hawk]

J,

On a quick read on the way out the door, that seemed to say there are some common qene expressions and some that are unique.  It concluded based on the common  expressions that they may benefit for common treatments.  Is this how you read it?

This seems like a very reasonable conclusion that I have never doubted.  It seem like you take the position that they would without any doubt benefit from the same treatments.

Would you conclude that the pentox, arginine, viagra combo would be a good treatment attempt for DC or would you conclude that is not a promising treatment for Peyronies Disease?

[j]

I certainly wouldn't say 'without doubt' but as more studies come out over the years, the conclusion is being reinforced that the cellular changes are identical.  I recall seeing a couple of other study abstracts that were more detailed, but right now I can't Google them up - a lot of that content has been moving to "pay per view".   

I first went to a hand surgeon for Dupuytren's about 10 years ago. He'd seen a lot of Dupuytren's, stated flatly that "Dupuytren's is a disease that affects 3 parts of the body" and told me exactly what to expect.   I didn't have Lederhose or Peyronie's at that point; but within 5 years I had both.  I have to admit that this all too accurate prediction has influenced my thinking.

While the cellular pathology may be similar or identical, there might be multiple causes. If the root cause of this loss of cellular regulation is genetic, it might be fairly intractable; but if some metabolic or 'lifestyle' factor pushes the fibroblasts into this zone, that might be addressed by a drug or supplement.

I have yet to see any convincing evidence that Pentox/Arginine/Viagra even work on Peyronie's, and have never heard of those drugs being tried against Dupuytren's or the other related conditions.  5-fluororacil was tried a few years ago on DC (on a small number of patients) and it failed.  It would be very interesting if someone like Dr. Tom Lue talked to people working on Dupuytren's.

Again, all just my opinions, based on nothing but reading the web over the years.

[George999]

Prospective Randomized Controlled Double Blind Trial Of Shock Wave Therapy (SWT) Vs. Sham Treatment In Men With Peyronie's Disease

This study from from the UK may have put to rest the use of extracorporeal shock wave lithotripsy (ESWL) for the treatment of Peyronie's Disease plaques.

And:

Can Extracorporeal Shock Wave Therapy Induce Peyronie's-Like Plaque In Normal Penis?

This study out of Sao Paolo, Brazil showed that shock wave therapy (SWT) can actually induce tissue injury to the tunica albuginea to form a Peyronie's plaque in normal tissue.

[gbja]

I read som articles about the use of ultrasound, and found a dosage of 0,5 W/cm2 for 5 min one place. What is the carrier frequency? ( my apparatus has a choice of 1 MHz and 3 MHz)
Also - should the pulse frecquency be cont. or pulsed ? Grateful for answer

[Tim468]

No clue regarding that question gbja.

Years ago, when I worked as an ER doctor, during quiet (long quiet) spells during the night, I would use the ultrasound at the same settings that they had used for joints and fasciitis (sp?) and tried it out - no better - though things warmed up while I did it. I do not recall the settings though.

Where did you find the data that you reported?

Tim

[Iceman]

can anyone comment on this:

In the study, researchers at the Hôpital Foch in Suresnes, France, investigated a technique called extracorporeal shock wave therapy (ESWT), commonly used to split and break up kidney stones, to treat 54 men with Peyronie's.

Of the 35 patients that had pain on erection, 91% noticed relief immediately after treatment. Twenty-nine patients (54%) noticed an improvement in penile angle, and 25 thought the plaque had been smoothed by the procedure. Overall, 61% of patients said their condition had improved after the therapy. Only 9 patients (16%) thought it was inadequate and went on to surgery.

"On the basis of these results, we conclude that ESWT could become a valuable tool in the therapeutic arsenal to successfully treat Peyronie's disease," write the authors in their study, which is published in the current issue Urology.

[Tim468]

I suspect it may have application for those with palpable plaque that is perhaps solidified or calcified, but will prove less helpful for those with dents or smaller scars.

Simply put, it breaks up things that are built up, so if your disease does not include a buildup of something that you can palpate, it will probably not be helped.

Time will tell if this works outside of this hospital - this why multi-center blinded and randomized studies are so important.

Tim

[bodoo2u]

So Tim,

Would you say that I am calcified after more than 3 years of Peyronie's Disease? I have a plaques (it feels more like a cord) that runs along almost the entire right side of my penis, causing a horrible bend to the right, which experts say is worse than bending up or down.

Do you think ESTW is worth trying, assuming I can get a doctor to perform it?

Bo

[PAR]

Pulsed ultrasound is for acute conditions and continuous is for chronic conditions. This is usually regarding inflammation lasting longer than about 72 hours so I would use continuous.

[gbja]

Sorry for delay of answer: this is the link: http://www.laserpartner.org/lasp/web/en/2000/0006.htm

[atchoum]

Hello,
I am new here and as you may assume, I am suffering from La Peyronie's disease, I just got diagnosed a couple of weeks ago, thank you for welcoming me...
I am about to start the verapamil injections, but I have heard about the ESWL treatment that stand for  Extracorporeal Shock Wave Lithotripsy   "Using a standard lithotriptor  (Siemens Multiline) on «young» plaques (less than 6 months)."
Have you heard anything about it? Is it related to the topic ESWT
Yours,
atchoum

[LWillisjr]

atchoum,
Welcome (unfortunately)....   you will find mixed reactions here regarding the Verapamil injections. Several have had complications just from the injections. But there are documented studies where the injections did help, but I believe it was in conjunction with either VED or traction therapy in addition to the injections. I had 6 of them and didn't notice any improvement at all. I was fortunate in that I did not have any complications or side effects from the injections.

The ESWT topic has come up several times. It seems there is a lot of interest in it but I'm not aware of anyone on this forum who has had any treatments nor any success with it. But one thing to remember is that there is no single cure that works for everyone, so each person needs to pursue their own choices of therapies to see what works for them.

[Tim468]

The article on shockwave therapy is from 2003 and I have seen no good followup study published. That usually means that the early data did not pan out with larger numbers of patients, or that the original numbers were not that good to start with.

Tim

[atchoum]

atchoum,
Welcome (unfortunately)....   you will find mixed reactions here regarding the Verapamil injections. Several have had complications just from the injections. But there are documented studies where the injections did help, but I believe it was in conjunction with either VED or traction therapy in addition to the injections. I had 6 of them and didn't notice any improvement at all. I was fortunate in that I did not have any complications or side effects from the injections.

Hello lwillisjr an thank you for your answers,
You talk about side effects and complications from the Verapamil injections, what could they be ?

The ESWT topic has come up several times. It seems there is a lot of interest in it but I'm not aware of anyone on this forum who has had any treatments nor any success with it. But one thing to remember is that there is no single cure that works for everyone, so each person needs to pursue their own choices of therapies to see what works for them.

So no one really on this forum has tryed the ESWT/ESWL so far ?
By looking at statistics of the two treatments, my brother (who's a Dermatologist) said that the results obtained with Verapamil are more significant, he also said to ask my doctor about injecting corticoids into the plaques since he does that with patients who present skin scares that turned fibrous. Has that option ever been tried ? I am not proposing here a treatment. it is only a question a doctor (who's not a specialist in this matter) wants me to ask to another Doctor (who's a specialist in the matter)...
atchoum

[atchoum]

The article on shockwave therapy is from 2003 and I have seen no good followup study published. That usually means that the early data did not pan out with larger numbers of patients, or that the original numbers were not that good to start with.

Tim

Hello,
Yes I could not find recent studies myself...
Here's the summary from he french study I mentionned before (2000)...

"Extracorporeal shock wave lithotripsy (ESWL) in the treatment of La Peyronie disease. Use of a standard lithotriptor (Siemens Multiline) on «young» plaques (less than 6 months).
Objectives: The treatment of La Peyronie disease is still controversal. ESWL has been recently proposed to treat symptomatic plaques.The results, although discordant and often based on subjective assessment criteria, appear to show a certain degree of efficacy on so-called young plaques, i.e. during the acute phase of the disease.This study was designed to evaluate the results obtained with a classical lithotriptor (Siemens Multiline) on plaques present for less than 6 months.
Material and Method: 26 patients were included in this prospective study.All presented a painful plaque on erection.The plaque was palpated under general anaesthesia and 0.5 to 2 ml of contrast agent were injected to allow radiological visualization.All patients received 3000 impacts at a power of 7 kilo-joules in 1 session and all were reviewed 1 month and 3 months after the ESWL session.
Results : Treatment was perfectly tolerated. Among the 26 patients treated : 19 patients (73%) reported a very marked reduction of pain on erection and 8 (31%) reported a reduction of curvature on erection, but this reduction was demonstrated objectively (by tracing or photographs) for only 3 patients (11%).Seven patients (27%) experienced softening of the plaque. Six (37%) of the patients suffering from erectile dysfunction reported improvement of the quality of erection, as reflected by the HEF score.

Conclusion: A standard lithotriptor can be used to treat La Peyronie plaques. ESWL appears to have a marked analgesic effect, but its efficacy on correction of curvature of the penis was not demonstrated in this study"...

Regards,
Atchoum

[atchoum]

can anyone comment on this:

In the study, researchers at the Hôpital Foch in Suresnes, France, investigated a technique called extracorporeal shock wave therapy (ESWT), commonly used to split and break up kidney stones, to treat 54 men with Peyronie's.

Of the 35 patients that had pain on erection, 91% noticed relief immediately after treatment. Twenty-nine patients (54%) noticed an improvement in penile angle, and 25 thought the plaque had been smoothed by the procedure. Overall, 61% of patients said their condition had improved after the therapy. Only 9 patients (16%) thought it was inadequate and went on to surgery.

"On the basis of these results, we conclude that ESWT could become a valuable tool in the therapeutic arsenal to successfully treat Peyronie's disease," write the authors in their study, which is published in the current issue Urology.

I am supposed to meet the Hospital Foch Staff (Doctor LEBRET) the 29th of January, the only statistic I found about the treatment is the one I posted (summary), can you tell me where you found yours please?
Regards,
atchoum

[Tim468]

I hope the doctor visit goes well.

You can copy/paste a snippet of the text that you are interested into the google search engine. remember to put it into quotes.

By searching this phrase: "In the study, researchers at the Hôpital Foch in Suresnes, France", I found several links.

Tim

[LWillisjr]

atchoum,

Regarding the following:

Hello lwillisjr an thank you for your answers,
You talk about side effects and complications from the Verapamil injections, what could they be ?

Several who post here will tell you that the injections caused more problems for them. Examples would be causing more damage due to the insertion of the needle to the tunica either due to more fibrous tissue or creating additional Peyronies plaque. However....  there are also studies referenced where 70% of patients who did have injections together with Pentox and either VED or traction therapy actually helped to correct their Peyronies bend. To stay on topic look under the "Injections - Verapiml.... " thread on this forum.

[atchoum]

Hello,
Just to let you know that after thoughts, reading results, statistics and discussions, I have decided to go for the Verapamil  option  (I started yesterday...) so from now on I will be posting on the relevant topic...
atchoum 

[Tim468]

Please let us know how it turns out.

Tim

[newguy]

BACKGROUND: Extracorporeal shock wave therapy (ESWT) is a conservative therapy for patients with Peyronie's disease (Peyronies Disease). OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effects of ESWT in patients with Peyronies Disease. DESIGN, SETTING, AND PARTICIPANTS: One hundred patients with a history of Peyronies Disease not >12 mo who had not had previous Peyronies Disease-related treatments were enrolled in a prospective, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study. Patients were randomly allocated to either ESWT (n=50) or placebo (n=50). Erectile function (EF), pain during erection, plaque size, penile curvature, and quality of life (QoL) were assessed at baseline, at 12 wk, and at 24 wk follow-up. INTERVENTION: Four weekly treatment sessions were administered. Each ESWT session consisted of 2000 focused shock waves. For the placebo group, a nonfunctioning transducer was employed. MEASUREMENTS: EF was evaluated with the shortened version of the International Index of Erectile Function (IIEF-5), pain was evaluated with a visual analog scale (VAS; 0-10), plaque size was measured in cm(2), and penile curvature was measured in degrees. RESULTS AND LIMITATIONS: After 12 wk, mean VAS score, mean IIEF-5 score, and mean QoL score ameliorated significantly in patients receiving ESWT. Mean plaque size and mean curvature degree were unchanged in the ESWT group, while a slight increase was reported in the placebo group (p-value not significant vs baseline). After 24 wk, mean IIEF-5 score and mean QoL score were stable in the ESWT group, while mean VAS score was significantly lower when compared with baseline in both groups. Interestingly, after 24 wk, mean plaque size and mean curvature degree were significantly higher in the placebo group when compared with both baseline and ESWT values. The main limitations were that the QoL questionnaire was not validated, Erectile Dysfunction was not etiologically characterized, and inclusion criteria were restricted. CONCLUSIONS: In patients with Peyronies Disease, ESWT leads to pain resolution and ameliorates both EF and QoL.

- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19473751?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

I have no fixed view of this treatment, but noticed this so thought I'd post it here.

Does anyone have a few on the use of radiotherapy for peyronie's? It appears to have been used to treat Dupuytren's disease, or rather to halt progression.

[newguy]

Here's a link relating to radiation therapy in those with Dupuytren's. Interestingly, on perhaps the largest Dupuytren's forum it appears to be pretty much the therapy of choice (aside from surgery) with the ability to often "stop the growth of Dupuytren nodules or cords either permanently or for a long time" at least according to the site and a few studies on the http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/ website.

http://www.dupuytren-online.info/radiation_therapy.html

I wonder if these results would be mirrored in those with early stage peyronie's. If so, I suppose it could eventually be considered as a front line treatment for those new to peyronie's. The word "radiotherapy" and typical uses and consequences at high enough doses perhaps mean that not enough study is performed in this area relating to peyronies. As peyronies isn't life threatening it would perhaps be considered a "trivial" use of the technology. I doubt sufferers would agree though.

What's your view of this as a potential treatment?

[Hawk]

I have a dim view of this based only on the fact that it has been tried and seemed to go nowhere.  I am pretty sure Old Man has had radiation therapy for Peyronies Disease many years ago.

It is worth noting that radiation therapy has steadily evolved both in type and in delivery.  Radiation therapy in general is much more precise than even a decade ago so at least tissue outside of the target area is less affected.

[Old Man]

Newguy:

Yes, Hawk is right. I had 45 three minute x-ray bombardments done for Peyronies Disease. They were done two times a week until the 45 sessions were completed. It was part of an experiment being done in Birmingham, Alabama.

At the time the urology association was asking certain of their better known urologists to experiment with the treatment. I was selected to participate in the program since my cousin had recommended me for the trials.

My case was followed closely by the urology group and documented very well. However, after the treatment was finished, my Peyronies Disease was just as bad as before. There were no obvious decrease in any of the symptoms. My Peyronies Disease consisted of a 45 degree curve to the right and a 45 degree or more curve downward. Sexual activity was curtailed somewhat, but I could still perform with a few little problems.

Only after I was prescribed a VED for impotency after a radical prostatectomy was I able to see any good results toward return of my penis to somewhat of a "normal" state.

So, bottom line, my radiation therapy proved to be of no actual benefit from it. I don't recommend it for anyone due to the added time and bother of having to make the visits for the treatment with no known good results. Advances in the radiation field may be better now, but I still doubt that x-ray therapy would be any better than it was back then.

Old Man

[Maverick]

It seems to me that ultrasound and/or laser therapy would be the way to go in treating Peyronie. Oral medication can only go so far in reacting with localized scar tissue.
Recently Nanovibronix received preliminary FDA approval on their Pain Shield device. This device is an alternative to the common place high frequency/high intensity ultrasound that has been used for years in helping with muscle tissue healing and various other applications. Pain Shield uses low frequency/low intensity in a portable unit. I've contacted them for a quote and will ask my doctor about which frequency and intensity would be best suited for application in Peyronie.

[Maverick]

Anyone know what happened to that PainFree ESWT clinic in Toronto Canada? Seemed to have posted promising results and then fell off the map...

[Hawk]

I think these were self-proclaimed successful results and not objective, well designed trials.  I have always believed this was likely more hype for business thant it was true results but I wanted to see evidence to the contrary.  I never did.

[CJinSF]

Hi - I'm new to this site.  I was one of the clients that was treated at the "PainFree ESWT" clinic near Toronto.  The ESWT was extremely effective for me.  I had 3 Peyronie's "symptoms": 1- an hourglass; 2- a sharp bend up to the left; 3- a gentle curve up resulting in an overall shortening.  During the sessions at the clinic, the staff focused on the first 2 as they indicated greater success with specific site treatment.  After my weekend of treatment, both of these symptoms were completely gone.  Plus, my insurance reimbursed me for 80% of the procedure.  Now, almost 2 years later, I am searching for another clinic to try and get treatment for the remaining symptom, to see if I can regain some of my original length.  The clinic in Toronto unfortunately went out of business (I think in 2008) due to lack of clients.  As a former client, they contacted me before they closed to let me know they were doing so.

[newguy]

Are you looking for treatment in Canada specifically, or would you be able to travel to the US if necessary? If you feel that it helped you, it's a shame that the clinic closed.

[Maverick]

Are you looking for treatment in Canada specifically, or would you be able to travel to the US if necessary? If you feel that it helped you, it's a shame that the clinic closed.

Newguy, are you saying that this treatment is being done in the US and if so where and do you know anyone that has done it?
FYI as to my previous post about Nanovibronix, the unit was a little too expensive at 600$+ so I opted for a traditional 1MHz unit and will try it out as soon as it is delivered.

[newguy]

No, I was trying to get an idea of the geographical boundaries in his search for treatment. ESWT is available in the UK though, so I'd imagine that there must be a few US options.

[Wintercookie]

The 2nd Consultant Urologist I consulted about my Peyronies suggested ESWT and so I agreed.  This was performed in a NHS hospital in the North West of England between April - June 2007.  I had 3 sessions lasting about 20 mins each session, following thay there was only slight reddening or bruising on the surface skin.  I experienced a cessation of aching/pain at the sight of one plaque for about a fortnight but then it seemed to resume.  Other than that I discerned no other benefits as far as plaque reduction or erectile dysfunction was concerned.  However my Peyronies manifests itself as a diffuse scarring around the penis resulting in narrowing and shortening of my penis and so I perhaps was not the best candidate for this treatment.  There was an element of guesswork I felt on the part of the technicians administering the Lithotripsy in locating which part of the penis to focus on given that they could not make out any plaques on the ultrasound monitor.  They were directed by where I indicated the aching/pain.  At the outset of the 2nd session a technician even identified the coronal ridge of my glans penis as being a plaque and proceed to 'zap' me there for all of a minute before I stopped them!  Incompetance indeed.

[newguy]

Yes, ESWT is a tricky one. It's another of of those treatments that appears to work really well acciording to some studies, but not so well according to others. Some of the studies are quite large though, so I do think that it can be useful for certain individuals. There are so many factors though, one of which you wisely point out as the competence or otherwise of those carrying out the procedure. It doesn't seem like it did much for you, so that's a shame.

[tackarama]

Hi

I was diagnosed in Feb this year, 1cm of plaque on the top = 30 degree (painful) bend upwards. I was on Potaba for 3 months then was taken off and thing started to get worse again about 6 weeks ago. now it's 2cm & 45 degrees, painful when erect and some times when not.

Just saw my Urologist again today, had to wait 6 weeks for an appointment. He says he doesn't do ESWT but a colleague of his may. Back on Potaba & VED now.

Does anyone know of any Urologists in the UK offering ESWT on the NHS or has anyone got any recommendations for private practices in the UK? If it works for some people then I'm prepared to try it, well anything but surgery!!

Thanks in advance. Michael

[LWillisjr]

Does anyone know of any Urologists in the UK offering ESWT on the NHS or has anyone got any recommendations for private practices in the UK? If it works for some people then I'm prepared to try it, well anything but surgery!!

Thanks in advance. Michael

Why are you so interested in ESWT. There are few if any success stories with this?

If you haven't done so yet you might want to read some of the other topics on the forum that have led to some positive results regarding Peyronies Disease.

Les

[newguy]

Why are you so interested in ESWT. There are few if any success stories with this?

If you haven't done so yet you might want to read some of the other topics on the forum that have led to some positive results regarding Peyronies Disease.

Les

It's a cultural thing. For some reason in the UK some doctors seem quite big on ESWT and that filters through to patients perpections of what works and what doesn't. You should get on pentoxifylline michael.. without a doubt (check  out this new study: https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,1004.0.html . And maybe l-arginine and viagra. Aside from that keep doing what you're doing.

[PreZer]

                Last day my wife just takes a check up in the doctor and have some ultrasound in the clinic. I saw our first baby in the 3D ultrasound that is printed. It is a baby boy when It comes out. Ultrasound Repair Training

[cindybasty]

Well, ultrasound has become more popular as days go by. There are many kinds of ultrasound but the most common is the pregnancy. Anybody her who could at least discuss to me if there are negative effects of it? My wife has been tested with ultrasound for three times. She is pregnant and we are excited of what the gender of the baby is as it is our first.

[Skjaldborg]

or to know if that is a bot or a girl

If I were to make a guess, I would say "bot".

-Skjald

[Old Man]

Cindy:

I would not suggest you call your son a bot (if it is a BOY).

Just kidding, the t and y are very close on the keyboard, huh?

Old Man

[MikeSmith0]

I just found this article & wondering if anyone has seen it.  

Are there any doctors in the US that will use ESWT?  This thread seemed fairly negative about it but this research shows it is quite a bit more effective than VI alone.  I would seriously consider using it if this data is really the true story.  I do not enjoy the VI sessions as one might imagine - and to think that they are only going to work 60% of the time is frustrating. ESWT seems like it would drastically increase the odds & especialyl help the hourglass I have.  However, I have not seen one reference to a US doc using it.  Also, I don't think I can just go to Europe and have it done once - given that it was done 3x a week here (not sure for how many weeks though).

I know the title of this article is about biopsies, but the actual study is much more about ESWT and VIs.

(PS - I lost my PW again & something is up w/ the password retrieval function! Sorry)

Methods: A treatment group (A) of 380 patients underwent Extra Shock Waves Treatment (ESWT) three times a week for 20minutes, followed by a complete cycle of 12 injections of verapamil (10mg), every two weeks for six months. A control group (B) of 92 patients underwent verapamil injections alone. Three months after the end of the treatment, each patient underwent penile biopsy performed with Acu-Punch (Acuderm Inc.), a biopsy-punch armed with a well-sharpened rotating cylindrical blade, first used by dermatologists for cutaneous lesions.

Results: A reduction of the plaque volume was found in 260/380 patients (68.4%) of group A and in 28/92 (30.4%) of group B; painful erection weaned off in 312/340 patients of group A (91.7%) and in 36/82 patients (43.9%) of group B. In all 472 patients an excellent specimen was obtained and both the tunica albuginea and the cavernous tissue were easily identified. In the 260 cases, in which the Extra Shock Waves Treatment was successful, scanning and transmission electron microscopy demonstrated a reduction in packing and clumping of the collagen fibers.


I can't post links but just remove the spaces in the link below:

linkinghub.elsevier.com /  retrieve/  pii  /S0302283802002257

Source:   A New Biopsy Technique to Investigate Peyronie's Disease Associated Histologic Alterations: Results with Two Different Forms of Therapy
European Urology, Volume 42, Issue 3, Page 239

[hoh]

 I wonder whether has there been any write ups about laser therapy for Peyronies?

[Old Man]

hoh:

None that I know of at the moment. There has been some talk around the medical field that testing is being done, but none has been published to date as I understand it.

I can not see any way that laser could get to the plaque or other symptoms. Maybe high educated medical research doctors are looking into i.

Old Man

[hoh]

My thanks to Old Man's articles which have been very informative and given me hope  and an outlet from embarassment.
Any recommendations for VED brands and does one stop using once satisfactory results have been achieved?
Is a straightening device the same as VED?
thank you

[Old Man]

hoh:

OK, you asked about VEDs and straightening devices. There is a world of difference between the two. A VED, vacuum erection device, operates by pulling a vacuum inside the cylinder which in turn pulls blood flow into the erectile chambers (corpora). The straightening devices (traction) perform a mechanical stretch on ones penis with attached pads or other items that are supposed to prevent damage to one penis while attaching rods, springs and other mechanical items are attached to the assembled device. It operates by a pulling pressure exerted with the springs within a controlled limit.

Both devices have their place in Peyronies Disease therapy though and each individual has to decide for himself which of the two to use or if he desires to use both. Some guys are having success with the VED therapy, while others are having success with the traction therapy. Some guys are using both and are having success with their Peyronies Disease therapy.

So, bottom line, each individual has to determine which one or both would work best for his individual case of Peyronies Disease. The weapon of choice in the VED therapy appears to be the Vitality OTC three cylinder available from the Fitzz company with a discounted price by using the special link shown in the VED board of the main forum. The Fast Size traction device appears to be the weapon of choice for traction users. However, there are other known good quality medical grade VEDs and traction devices on the market, so one should search on his own for the best device for his use.

The above carries my usual caveat that it is only my personal opinion and/or experience gained from many years of my own Peyronies Disease therapy as well as experience gained through assisting other guys with Peyronies Disease in their therapy.

Old Man

[Lennyman]

HOH--  My opinion- Any mechanical force (pulling/stretching) is destructive to penis. I would stay away from extenders/strecthers.  The ved works because it brings fresh blood into penis to heal it.  Just my 2 cents.  Stick with George and Old Man.    Lennyman

[Tim468]

Not sure I agree LennyMan with that advice. The FastSize has been studied and found to help, and it makes sense in the same way that the VED makes sense. It cannot hurt to get blood into the penis, but it is probably the mechanical stretching that helps the penis straighten out - using any traction system.

Tim

[PD_SUCKS]

hello all. i'm new here and just wanted to share my experience with ultrasound treatments.
it has been the one thing so far that i can clearly say has helped. i did about 8 months
worth of treatments (1 ultrasound per week). An early imaging showed that I had a fair
amount of calcification on the plaque. And my final imaging showed that the plaque
had broken up quite a bit, but now I have more random fibrosis throughout the shaft
of the penis

i have been doing VED treatment at home every other day, but now i have started
to integrate a traction device as well (andro-penis). i'm trying to do it gradually.
my hourglassing and curving are getting slightly worse and i want to prevent it
from furthering. surprisingly it seems like my caregivers' attitude are to just
sit back and see how things go on their own. hmmm, i bet they would think
differently if they were in my position.

[skunkworks]

Not sure I agree LennyMan with that advice. The FastSize has been studied and found to help, and it makes sense in the same way that the VED makes sense. It cannot hurt to get blood into the penis, but it is probably the mechanical stretching that helps the penis straighten out - using any traction system.

Fastsize has done a lot more good for me than the VED.

[George999]

Some of the posts in this thread are CLEARLY off topic.  I think we are going to be hearing more about ultrasound therapy as it seems to be gaining in popularity and some bonafide success stories are emerging.  It would really help things if some of these posts were moved to their proper threads.  We DO HAVE threads for both VED and Traction.  - George