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Author Topic: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices  (Read 730670 times)

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Larry H

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Re: Note to Old Man
« Reply #100 on: March 20, 2006, 09:20:56 AM »

Greetings Old Man:

Several days ago you made a post about the Soma Correct and a problem with the Fed's on marketing the device as a Peyronies Disease treatment. I can't find the post now so it must have been lost in the server problem.

In any case you stated that you did not know what the problem was with the FDA, or why they wouldn't let Augusta market the device as a Peyronies Disease treatment. I have a guess, and it's something that has bothered me a great deal. In their advertising for the Soma Correct they state that by following their treatment protocol "the plaque is broken up, absorbed by the body, and passed out of the body", or something to that effect. Now, I consider that to be an outrageous statement, because if it were true it would be a cure. In addition, if it were true why would Augusta be behind a study using urologists around the country to study the use of the VED with verapamil, there would be no need for the verapamil.

I brought this statement to the attention of Louis on the BTC a couple of years ago and he said that the statement was being looked at and would be removed, but that didn't happen. This one statement is the reason that I haven't tried the VED. I do believe the device has merit, and I know how dedicated you are to the use of VED's as a Peyronies Disease treatment, and I do value your advice and council. However, in my mind this casts a flavor of snake oil over the device and the company that makes it. Again, I think the device has merit, but it appears that someone made a stupid marketing decision.

I would like to see a statement from Augusta addressing this issue before I invest several hundred dollars in a VED. Perhaps you could pass this on to the Augusta folks and ask them to take a few minutes to respond.

Thanks,

Larry
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Mick

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #101 on: March 20, 2006, 08:24:37 PM »

Larry:

I'm somewhat perplexed by your saying that the Feds will not o.k. the marketing of the Soma Correct for Peyronies Disease.  I contacted Augusta about a month ago and  I was instructed to have my uro fill out their prescription (the form is found on their web site) and be sure to have him state that the diagnosis was Peyronies Disease.  I was told that this was necessary for Medicare to approve payment.  They also contacted my secondary insurance, Tricare for Life, another federal govt. agency, who also approved.  Medicare allowed $400 of the $500 price and paid $300.  Tricare paid the remainder of the approved amount ($100) and I paid the remaining $100.  They shipped the product and I have been using it for 24 days now.  I'm doing quite well  too, and will be reporting monthly on my progress beginning on March 27.

Respy, Mick
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Old Man

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #102 on: March 20, 2006, 08:57:35 PM »

Larry H:

I have contacted Louis at Augusta Medical with regard to the withdrawal of FDA approval of their Soma Correct VED for Peyronies Disease therapy. He said something to the effect that the company was working on getting it re-approved, but did not state what the underlying problem with FDA was. He said that he would give me some details as soon as they were worked out. However, have not heard from him lately. Their regional sales rep who provided me with the demo model of the Soma lives in New Orleans and has been under quite a bit of stress due to his losses during hurricane Katrina.

Maybe I will hear something soon about the Soma Correct. In the meantime, it can be marketed as an aid for correction of Erectile Dysfunction. Since it requires an RX to acquire one, the doctor prescribing it must have confidence in it or he/she would probably not issue the RX.

As you stated, I do have the utmost confidence that if used properly that the VED will work or most cases of Peyronies Disease. I know for sure that it will work for Erectile Dysfunction as I have been using it for that now almost 11 years since prostate cancer surgery. Again, I state categorically that it does not work for all cases, but will for most. If only the guys that have had success with it would post their results, we would see the good results.

Good luck to you and let me know if you do decide to use one. Would like to track your success too.

Regards, Bill
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Age 89. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

Old Man

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #103 on: March 20, 2006, 09:04:19 PM »

MicK:

What we are talking about when we say that the Feds will not approve the Soma Correct is this: FDA is the organization that has to approve its use as a medically qualified product. It was given that approval early on, but due to something that happened (I don't know what) the approval was withdrawn.

That does not affect what other governmental agencies do or not do with regard to insurance purposes. Each agency has its own policies and procedures to follow. So, your getting approval for payment of the Soma has nothing to do with its approval as an aid for Peyronies Disease therapy. It can be marketed as an aid for Erectile Dysfunction.

It is all very confusing to say the least, but in your case you were able to obtain the Soma at very little cost to you. In my case, being on Medicare and having my Federal Retired Employees health insurance, mine cost me nothing. I also have Tricare, but to date none of my medical expenses has been paid by that agency. The Soma VED that I have was a demo model given to me for evaluation for the Augusta company.

Regards, Old Man
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Age 89. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

Rzz

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #104 on: March 21, 2006, 04:23:46 AM »

Old Man,

How are you friend? Hope all is well with you, the family and life in general. Hope that Grandson of yours is getting closer to the PGA Tour.

Anyway, we've talked about this before, but I was hoping you'd touch on it again. I had asked you before if the VED could help someone who was having erection problems caused by venous leakage. You said it could, but I'm having problems understanding how the VED could help this situation. Could you briefly go over that again. Thanks,        Rzz
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Larry H

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Re: Reply to "Old Man"
« Reply #105 on: March 21, 2006, 09:52:32 AM »

Bill,

Thanks for the quick reply.

I can understand that anyone living in the gulf coast area is living in a world of stress right now. I just traveled through your lovely city and on down and back I-10 for a months stay in San Antonio, and saw first hand the distruction.

Feel free to pass on my post to you, to the Augusta people as I would really like to hear an explanation of, what I consider to be, their over the top claims. It's my belief that Augusta is a good solid company that just allowed someone in marketing to make a stupid claim. We have to deal with too much of that stuff as we fight this mess, and we certainly don't want to have to put up with it from company's who are legitimate and can offer help.

Let me know if you hear anything from them on this issue either here or by PM. I've got a doctors appointment on the 30th. and I'm going to ask for an Rx.

Thanks My Friend,

Larry

PS to Mick:

I think Old Man answered your question to me so I won't follow-up unless you have additional questions.
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Old Man

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #106 on: March 21, 2006, 06:31:56 PM »

Larry H.
Wow, a month on the road! I am getting too old for junkets like that.
Wish I had known you were traveling in this area, maybe we could have had lunch or dinner. We could have shared things in person rather than on the old puta.

Yes, I will be passing on to Augusta the concern you have about the Soma. Have no earthly idea why someone in marketing and/or sales dept. did not catch what was happening and did their homework first.

Their regiona sales rep lives in NOLA as I said and he has been under quite a bit of duress lately. Have not talked to him since the Hurricane Katrina wiped him out there.

Will be getting back to you as soon as I find out something.

Regards, Old Man Bill
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Age 89. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

Old Man

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #107 on: March 21, 2006, 06:47:25 PM »

RZZ:

Glad to hear that you have finished up the lengthy project and will have some time to surf the forum again. Hope that you are able to get the most out of the project and it goes well for you.

Now, about the VED helping with erections problems. Yes, it can and will eliminate most problems associated with Erectile Dysfunction, especially one with venous leakage. I have had that problem since about the age of 55. In the early days, I simply just used what guys call a "cockring" but with some caution. Those I used then were simply nothing more than an "O" ring type, but they were hard to remove once the sexual activity was completed, etc.

So, when my prostate cancer surgery left me totally impotent due to non nerve sparing surgery, my uro prescribed the Osbon Classic VED. This one has two pieces, the cylinder and the pump. When I registered it with the old Osbon company, they offered me an Esteem at very little cost just to get it on the market, so to speak. It worked very well and I am still using both models as maintenance, etc.

Venous leakage occurs when the tissue in the corpus chambers no longer are able to hold the blood in when erection occurs due to sexual stimulation by whatever means. The VED when used properly and with just enough vacuum pressure to produce a full erection can overcome that problem. When one achieves an erection using the VED, the retainer ring(s) are slid off the end of the cyinder that is pressed up tight aginst the body onto the penis. It takes a bit of practice to determine whether one or two rings are required to hold up the erection long enough for sexual intercourse. There are usually several rings that come with the VEDs to allow for variation of the pressure, etc.

This all sounds complicated to some degree, but with a little practice a good erection can be achieved for sex. The only drawback is that you have to work up the erection with the pump which cuts down on the spontaneous effect of foreplay, etc. Another caution is that one must remove the retainer after about 30 minute from the time it is applied. The retainer simply acts as a tourniquet like in applying pressure in a serious bleeding open wound, etc. Those must be removed after 30 minutes also in order that the tissue is given a fresh supply of blood.

Hope this is not too lengthy, but you know me, takes a mouthful of words to say what I mean! Also, it might explain it better for other guys who have the venous leakage problem too.

Let me know if you have further questions.

Old Man
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Age 89. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

Angus

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #108 on: March 23, 2006, 07:21:19 PM »

  I have been talking to Old Man privately and he urged me to post these methods and results. After years of different treatments that did not work, I have settled on VED therapy for Peyronies Disease with positive results. The method I use is a hybrid, being a combination of the general graduated tube sizes and the general Peyronies Disease therapy guidelines outlined by Old Man in many posts over the years.
  I am using 3 home made VED's of differing tube sizes (1 1/2, 1 3/4 and 2 inch sizes). They are made of clear acrylic tube, clear vinyl tube and high quality PVC caps. Vacuum is produced by a bulb type hand pump with a vacuum release valve. I use a commercially made VED vacuum seal ring for the entry end of the largest tube. The openings of the smaller tubes require no flex seal ring. The warnings of over-pumping prompted me to purchase and install vacuum guages on each tube. Each 1 1/2 inch guage shows vacuum in inches, or -Hg, on the dial, and the guages are very accurate. The guages enable me to know when I'm approaching the maximum -Hg inches of vacuum before any pain, which for me is anything over -6 Hg (inches) of vacuum. I feel that knowing the exact Hg inches of vacuum via the guage provides a safer way to use them, and I can stop pumping at -4 or -5 Hg inches of vacuum before the onset of any problems. -5 Hg of vacuum is about optimum for producing an erection... higher vacuum readings are uncomfortable for me and produce no visible benefit to the erection. I would say that this helps to support the danger warnings of overpumping, and when it comes to vacuum producing an erection, less is more. At present I am searching for a small vacuum release safety valve that could be set to release the vacuum at a pre-set level (-6 Hg inches of vacuum) which would make overpumping almost impossible. I use the VED's only for Peyronies Disease therapy because I have no Erectile Dysfunction. I took care making these and I feel they are very high quality and have caused me no problems; I use these with great caution and attention, and the use of them with Old Mans guidelines has led to an improvement of my curve which has gone from its worst of 45 degrees to about 10 degrees. The 45 degree curve had started to relax (resolve) on its own a bit before beginning VED therapy, but most of the curve improvement has taken place after VED therapy was started about a year and a half ago. 
   The main purpose of my post is to report positive, visible results from VED therapy for Peyronies Disease, but I thought it would be good to say what VED's I am using. I am convinced that VED therapy for Peyronies Disease needs more research and support. Making ones own VED's may not be for everybody, but for me it was a viable and less expensive way to start treatment.
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Hawk

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Re: Angus / Self-made VEDs
« Reply #109 on: March 23, 2006, 09:20:42 PM »

Angus,

It would be difficult to express how happy I am that you started posting after 6 months on the forum.  We all appreciate the support that gives the forum.  THANKS!

In addition to my above statement, this is one of the most interesting posts I have ever read on any forum.  It is interesting both for the results and the fact that you designed a VED

Questions:
1. Do you have a digital camera or a picture you could scan to post a photo.  I could walk you through  how to post it (pretty easy).

2. How much would you say you have in materials and how many hours of labor per VED?

3. How accessible are the components?

Clearly vacuum is vacuum.  Your VED sounds better than many on the market.  While there is a chance there could be a patent protection on some component that might prevent you from opening a company, no one can stop you from building anything if it is not for personal gain. (in money, not inches  :D  )
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After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

Angus

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #110 on: March 24, 2006, 01:54:39 PM »



     Hawk,

     Thanks... to you, other admins and everyone who helped to provide a top-notch forum for all of us.
     In answer to your questions, yes I can produce digital images. On materials, I haven't put it to the calculator, but I would estimate that I have about $25 to $30 in costs for each one.The costly single items were the thread mount vacuum gauges at about $15 each; they are internet order items. The vinyl tubing can be found at most hardware chain stores and pool supply houses. The clear acrylic tubing is an internet purchase since it is a specialty item in raw uncut lengths. The end caps are PVC fittings that can be found at hardware stores. The bulb type vacuum pump with release valve was gleaned from an inexpensive penis pump in the novelty category from a local store. Sealing the units different parts involved silicone sealer, epoxy and marine sealant. On component accessability, some items can be found locally but some must be mail or internet ordered, but all can be purchased without having to be a wholesaler or possess a tax number. I would suppose that the gauges and acrylic tubing could be found in a large metro city that had tool and equipment retail outlet stores. On hours of labor involved I would estimate several hours per unit because of the initial "R & D" stages of seal modification trial and error and finding sealants that I liked. If I made another one now, it could be done in a couple of hours because I know what materials to use. All in all, designing and making them was sometimes frustrating but the time spent I feel was rewarding. Thus far, none of the parts or components have failed or given any problems.
   
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Mick

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions; Progress report
« Reply #111 on: March 25, 2006, 01:07:24 PM »

     Today marks the first month anniversary of my beginning using the Soma Correct.  I thought this would be a good time to give a progress report.  I have followed the Augusta Protocol to the letter, and with one small glitch, things have gone pretty smoothly.  The problem was that from about the 10th to the 20th day I experienced a slight pain similar to the one I had before my Peyronies Disease stabilized 14 years ago.  It usually occured about 15 minutes after completing the exercise and lasted about 15 to 30 minutes, but the last time it lasted 16 hours.  I believe that it was caused by overpumping.  Accordingly, I began taking it easier and have had no further trouble.  I guess I've got the hang of it now.
     I think the best way to report my progress is to list comparitive values for 5 areas I am monitoring, listing the values before I began and the values as of now:

                     Feb. 25                            Mar. 25

Length flaccid            4"                                   4 1/4"
Length erect         4 1/2"                                  4 7/8"
Girth erect                 5"                                  5 1/2"
Angle               15 degrees dorsal                5 degrees dorsal
Plaque              3/8" wide strip from          no observeable change
                       base of shaft to base
                       of glans

     I had noticed the decrease in angle and the increase in girth about a week ago but thought it might be my imagination; however, my wife confirmed my own observations at that time.  The length changes were not so noticeable.  The plaque is difficult to measure; although the length and width seem to be the same, I am uncertain as to the  depth though.  Needless to say, I am quite pleased with the results; I feel the apparatus has already paid for itself. 

     I have never received any other treatment in the 14 years I have had Peyronies Disease, and even now am not taking anything, not even Vitamin E, so I can be very sure that any progress would be solely attributable to the Soma Correct and my "coaches," Old Man and Hawk.  Thanks, guys.

     I intend to give further progress reports on the 25th of each of the next 5 months (through August) and perhaps thereafter, if warranted.  I hope this report will be of some assistance to those of you who might be considering VED's.  The reason that I'm using the Soma rather than an Osbon product is that I do not have Erectile Dysfunction.

                                      Respy, Mick

   
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Chuck Frasher

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #112 on: March 27, 2006, 04:06:48 AM »

 That is remarkable! ;D
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hopeful

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #113 on: March 27, 2006, 08:38:09 AM »

Angus, Hawk,

anyone else using this site- has anyone heard of this company or is anyone using this protocol???- It seems very intersting- especially if the plaque is being reduced by drug or enzyme treatment- please let me know-

Please see  http://www.androline.com/inglese/h-penisbuilder.htm
Hopeful

     
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hopeful

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #114 on: March 27, 2006, 08:44:25 AM »

[Hi Angus,

Great job- would love to connect with you- when you say old man- is that Doctor Hearzy- and using his enzyme protocol with Neprinol- I spoke with the enzyme company owner that formulated their product- it is supposed to be of the highest quality?- If so he seems to be on track... in the meantine- I have not purchased a VED- too expensive for Somma $500- and am looking at others- I did find this.. on the internet- perhaps- if you can find the supplier of these tubes- it will help.. let me know..

See link-  http://www.stockroom.com/pumps.htm
Hopeful
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Old Man

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #115 on: March 27, 2006, 03:27:53 PM »

hopeful:

Angus is referring to me, the Old Man, who posts here as a senior member. He is referring to conversations we had through the PM system relative the use of VEDs for therapy with Peyronies Disease symptoms.

Most of my posts are relegated to the VED and other devices topic, but I post on the others as well. I used the name of Old Man on the old BTC forum until it got so rotten with imposters, which also using the name of Old Man, to post bogus items, etc.

Old Man
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Age 89. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

zigwyth

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #116 on: March 27, 2006, 04:30:45 PM »

Old Man, I have sent you a private email as you have requested for info on a suggested regimen and any other pertinent info. I am new to this condition and this forum seems to have alot more intelligent and caring individuals as opposed to another site I was on. Thank you
[email protected]
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soxfan

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #117 on: March 27, 2006, 04:46:12 PM »

Is it possible to purchase a soma correct withouth an RX? My doc is unwilling to write me one.

cheers.
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Old Man

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #118 on: March 27, 2006, 05:42:35 PM »

Soxfan:

You might want to contact Augusta Medical Systems by phone and ask for Louis. He and I have been emailing about the Soma Correct and I know that he would be able to give you the straight facts about obtaining the Soma.

Another approach would be to ask another doctor, maybe your GP, to prescribe it for you. Since it is considered a medical quality VED, the RX is required as far as I know. If it were sold over the counter, it might be obtainable without an RX.

Hope this helps.

Old Man
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Age 89. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

Angus

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #119 on: March 27, 2006, 08:10:43 PM »

Angus, Hawk,

anyone else using this site- has anyone heard of this company or is anyone using this protocol???- It seems very intersting- especially if the plaque is being reduced by drug or enzyme treatment- please let me know-

Please see  http://www.androline.com/inglese/h-penisbuilder.htm
Hopeful

     

     Hopeful, I looked at that website and remembered that there was a traction type device mentioned on one of the old message boards, except it didn't use a vacuum tube. I haven't read on any of the boards where someone has tried one of these devices; if someone had, I simply missed the post. Personally, I would question the integrity of the mechanics of such a device that physically pulls by mechanical manipulation and the negative results if the device were to fail to operate as advertised. Speaking for myself, I am staying with conventional VED use because of its relative safety and results shown over time. I am certainly not an expert on the subject, but I recommend caution and patience as you read about traction devices such as this.
     I checked the website of your other post that has the VED tubes (stockroom.com). I found it interesting that they have tubes down to 1 1/2 inch ID diameter; the configuration of a seal ring isn't mentioned. I also found it interesting to see that they market a hand pump for these that has a vacuum gauge installed. Due to the nature of the website I would be cautious about considering them. The hand pump with gauge appears to have a nylon snap fitting and the tubes appear to have the same type fitting, so using the hand pump with other manufacturers or home made tubes would be impossible without modification and removal of the snap fitting. I would say at this point that we need to continue to read the posts of those with knowledge of VED use for Peyronies Disease therapy; the safety and potential for injury would certainly stop me from trying any traction device. VED vacuum therapy for Peyronies Disease I feel is very safe when safety guidelines are used; I don't feel that mechanical traction is necessary to this therapy at this point, and indeed my be very unsafe.
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Old Man

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #120 on: March 27, 2006, 09:59:23 PM »

Note to all:

I visited the site on the vacuum plus traction device. This is somewhat like the Fastsize traction device mentioned on the old BTC forum many times by a guy who claimed success with restoring lost dimensions as well as relieving the hourglass and plaque symptoms.

Agree with Angus' theory that it could possibly lead to more trauma instead of helping. However, if used carefully it might have some merit. Personally, I would never use a device like that, but that is my humble opinion based on my past success with a more conventional VED.

There are more and more VED devices coming to the market, possibly based on them becoming known by more guys searching for relief from Peyronies Disease. So we all should be aware of the danger of using a device that could cause more trauma. In other words, let the buyer beware.

If anyone comes up with better information on this device, please post your comments here for all to see.

Old Man
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Age 89. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

zigwyth

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #121 on: March 28, 2006, 10:32:15 AM »

Old Man thanks for replying to my email. I have been looking for your suggested regimen, if  and  when I purchase a VED. I understand there are certain milking techniques you have described. Have been searching past threads for any of this.Also, Angus I work in production equipment maintenance and can easily get all supplies through McMaster-Carr or Grainger supplies for a possible homemade VED.With administrator's permission, are you still considering a Digital pic posted here with step-by step instructional for some of us that may wish to go this route?Otherwise, I would appreciate a personal email.
Thanks-Zigwyth
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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #122 on: March 28, 2006, 11:09:04 AM »

Zig:

Answered your email this a.m. Look forward to working with you when you decide which way you are going with the VED, etc. When you decide if you are building one or buying one, let me know and we can go from there.

Old Man
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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #123 on: March 29, 2006, 08:28:57 AM »

Thanks Old Man for continuing to reply. I am still contemplating what to do. I understand sometimes you can find the Osbon Esteem and others on Ebay occasionally. Am leary about making my own although the thought is intriguing. I work on High-end CNC machining equipment everyday and know I can fabricate something. I just don't know enough about the VED's yet. Type of seals, tubing sizes,materials,etc. Angus, any more thought to posting pics, parts list of your homemade device?
Thanks
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Re:Zigwyth
« Reply #124 on: March 29, 2006, 08:40:00 AM »

Zig,

Angus has already contacted me and he is working on an informational post on what he did.  He plans to attach some pictures of the device he made for his own personal use, materials etc.  It may take him a little time to get a series of photos and put it all together. 
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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #125 on: March 29, 2006, 12:01:18 PM »

zig and Hawk:

A guy that I worked with in Hawaii made his own VED. He is a mechanic with an airline there and has access to all sorts of machine equipment. He gathered up the necessary parts and made it. He did not give me any photos of it, so I don't have any idea what it looked like, but he stated that he had great success after using it. He used the regimen that I used with the Osbon VED.

There is absolutely no reason why anyone with a mechanical background and is good with tools cannot make one. There are only so many parts to them. The size of the cylinder can be whatever fits the individual. The vacuum source can be anything from a siimple vacuum pump used to test spark advance on cars to one used for testing anything that uses a vacuum negative pressure. Hand held units would be considered the safest so that the vacuum amount can be controlled more easily, etc.

So bottom line, they can be homebuilt and work just as good as the bought devices. The retainer rings can be bought from the companies that sell the medical quality VEDs.

Hope that the above helps anyone with the knowledge and ability to make their own VED.

Sincerely, Old Man
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Home crafted VED's
« Reply #126 on: April 01, 2006, 11:31:02 PM »

    Attached are 4 images of 2 VED's that I have made. This is simply an informative post to share what I have done and the results; I cannot make recommendations on a use or regimen for treatment... that is beyond my scope. I use a regimen that I came up with myself but it is a sort of hybrid using safe guidelines suggested by Old Man and the graduated cylinder sizes used by a commercial system. I have positive results for my Peyronies Disease symptoms using the ones that I made, but details of those would be beyond the scope of this post. These are home made devices and do not have the slick appearance of commercially made ones... I made changes to them as I went along and the appearance sometimes reflects that. I do feel that they are safe devices, as safe as any commercially made ones, and more safe by far than the sex toy variety of VED's. The safety factor I believe is increased on mine because of the addition of vacuum gauges that show the actual inches of vacuum (HG) in 1 inch increments so a target in inches -HG vacuum can be reached and maintained without overpumping by trial and error.
   VED1.jpg is actually the 2nd unit I made. Cylinder material is clear, rigid acrylic tubing, size 2" outside diameter (OD) with an inside diameter (ID) of 1 3/4". The cylinder walls are 1/8" thick. The white end cap is a simple PVC 2" pipe cap from a building materials store. The small tube protruding from the end cap is the attachment point for the hand bulb type vacuum pump which is from a sex toy type VED; the cylinder for it was discarded; I just wanted the hand pump. The hand pump has a rotary vacuum release valve. I feel that the bulb pump gleaned from a novelty VED works very well and has a good quality relief valve; all I need was a simple, inexpensive bulb to produce vacuum; vacuum is vacuum no matter what the cost of the pump. The small tube attachment point itself was made from a Bic pen housing cut down to about 1" length. It is epoxied into a 3/8" hole drilled into the PVC end cap. The hand pump tube (not in picture) is made of a soft silicone type rubber and it attaches to the VED cylinder with a slip fit over the cylinder attachment point. The vacuum gauge is a 1 1/2" WIKA brand with a scale of 0 to -30 inches HG of vacuum. For my application the gauge rarely if ever is brought to a readout of over -5 inches HG of vacuum. The gauge comes with a brass 1/8" NPT pipe thread mount and is threaded and epoxied into a hole drilled into the PVC end cap. I used teflon tape as a seal originally, but it didn't have a perfect seal so I went with epoxy on the threads for a dependable seal.
   VED2.jpg is the same VED from the other end. After cutting the 2" acrylic cylinder to length (8") and sanding the ends smooth, I needed a comfortable, safe insertion point that had a good seal, so I obtained flexible vinyl tubing, 3/8" OD x 1/4" ID from a building supply store. I split the tubing down one side lengthwise with a razor knife and slipped the sanded end of the acrylic cylinder into the split vinyl which covered the end of the cylinder around its circumference to make a relatively soft and comfortable insertion point that makes a good seal against skin. The vinyl tubing is held onto the acrylic cylinder with a product called Marine Goop, a marine sealant that is safe for skin contact when cured. It is also from the building supply store. The vinyl tubing was held in place with tape while the sealant cured. In the picture, the vinyl tubing has a home made appearance; the irregularity you see is the cured sealant inside the small vinyl tubing; the tubing exterior is very smooth. To date, all sealants have held up well, caused no irritation or problems, and the vacuum gauges have not failed; I must take care when cleaning the units to not let water enter the guage from inside the cylinders. If I were to change anything, I would seriously consider putting one vacuum gauge inline with the hand pump tubing instead of on the cylinder itself using a T fitting from plumbing supply; this would eliminate the possibility of water from the cleaning process getting into the vacuum gauge. Making these is an ongoing process and I make changes as I go along.
    VED3.jpg is the first VED I made. I wanted one with an inside diameter of 1 1/2" so I used a semi-rigid reinforced vinyl tubing from the building supply store. It is sold as 2" tubing but the actual OD is closer to 1 7/8", with a true ID of 1 1/2". The end cap for this one is also PVC similar to the first one described, but this cap is threaded with an ID of 1 3/4". This threaded PVC cap had to be forcefully threaded onto the 1 7/8" wide vinyl cylinder. Again, Marine Goop was used as a sealer with the end cap. The attachment point for the hand pump tubing was yet another cut down Bic pen. Since the inside diameter of the reinforced vinyl cylinder was the size I wanted, I simply sanded and worked the insertion end of the cylinder until it was well rounded and smooth. A Dremel tool with a sanding barrel attached was used to rough in the radius shape of the cylinder end, then finished by hand sanding with 220 and 400 grit sandpaper. It is very smooth and comfortable and causes no problems.
   VED4.jpg is a picture of the same reinforced vinyl cylinder VED with the soft silicone rubber hand vacuum pump attached. The same pump is used for both cylinders and just transferred back and forth to whichever one is being used. The Bic pen housings used for the attachment points hold up well and never leak air.
   The acrylic tubing is from Tapp Plastics and the vacuum gauges are from McMaster-Carr. Both have websites. I am not connected to these companies in any way except as a customer. 
   My motivation for making these was a need to be active in a search for relief of my Peyronies Disease symptoms. My quest isn't over by any means, but this project started my positive results. Again, I feel my VED's are safe devices for me, and I try to base my quest with these on patience, caution, education-information and a no-rush attitude, and I urge all that experiment with devices or treatments for Peyronies Disease relief to proceed in a like manner.
   Our extended family (Peyronies Disease sufferers plus their spouses or partners) must have hundreds or thousands of talented thinkers and creators; our healing may come from within.
   
   
 
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Re: Angus / attachments
« Reply #127 on: April 02, 2006, 09:54:16 PM »

Angus,

I want to congratulate you on a very interesting and informative post.  You did a great job with the picture attachment
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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #128 on: April 05, 2006, 09:44:11 AM »

I got an Rx for a VED, and after a long run-around with my insurance company (according to them, I'm a woman, and their computer will automatically reject coverage on a gender-specific item for the wrong sex), I was given the name of a company that I have to buy my VED through in order to have it covered. $100 deductible, then 25% of total is what I have to pay. Anyway, the company I have to deal with can't give me any information about the pump other than that they think it's manufactured by a company called Timm. They don't know if it's manual or battery operated etc etc. It looks to me like Timm makes the Osbon unit. I was hoping for the Soma Correct based on the info on this forum, but it looks like I'll have to settle. It also seems really expensive based on what I've found on the internet. The company I have to buy it through charges $953 for it. All the Osbon units on the web seem to be in the $400 range. Anyone have any thoughts about this or positive experience with the Osbon?
Thanks,
Ace
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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions Price of Osbon Esteem Manual VED
« Reply #129 on: April 05, 2006, 07:23:33 PM »

Ace:

First, the $900 plus price is way too much. The company that has the rights to produce the old Osbon Units is Timm Medicial Division of Endocare, Inc. located in MN. Their price is much cheaper than that you were quoted by your insurance company. There are several sites on the web that you can purchase the Osbon Esteem manual VED for $375.00.

Here are two of them: www.erecaidpumps.com
                               www.intimate-health.com/erecaid.htm

Check out these two sites and you will see their pricing, etc. I would not pay the $900.00 plus price unless your part would be less than the $375.00 price, etc.  If you desire to contact me off line, do it on the private message board or email me at [email protected]

Will be glad to work with you on getting everything going for you.

Sincerely, Old Man

PS: Occasionally, these Osbon units appear on EBay auction, you might want to check there too.
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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #130 on: April 05, 2006, 09:27:40 PM »

Thanks, Old Man,

I'm feeling a pretty strong lack of confidence in both my insurance company and Apria Healthcare, who I have to purchase it through. Something just seems fishy with the 200% markup.
I'll probably drop you a line once I get it (if you don't mind) as it sounds like you've worked out a pretty successful regimen with VEDs. Meanwhile, 6+ months on vitamin E and just over a month on Ginko seems to be making a difference for the better. Some improvement in girth, but none in the length.
More soon...
Ace
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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #131 on: April 05, 2006, 10:36:58 PM »

Ace:

Somthing is rather amiss if they want you to be billed for the $900.00 plus cost. Anyway, check out EBay as there were some Osbon units listed there yesterday. They have been bought on EBay for as low as $50.00 each. On the old BTC forum, I believe it was juma that said he bought two of them there for only $100.00. So, check it out.

Yep, will be glad to assist you in any way with the routine/regimen that I recommend for therapy. It has worked well for me and quite a few others.

Good luck to you, and keep us informed as to your progess in obtaining the VED.

Sincerely, Old Man
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Going to try the VED route...
« Reply #132 on: April 09, 2006, 04:55:45 PM »

Old Man,

As they say, I should have listened to experience first  ;) (you'd told me that it probably wouldn't work)...I've been on the VI treatment for 10 injections so far (following TV) with exactly 0 results so far (I've got the weekly photos to prove it).  My Uro has said that the next course of treatment is probably surgery, but I brought up the subject of VED's at our last meeting, and he offered to set me up with their rep right away!  I told him that I wanted to research it a bit more, and am glad that I did.
I've just finished reading the entire VED forum, and have learned that the VED of 'choice' for Peyronies Disease seems to be the Soma Correct with the Osbon Esteem leaning more to the Erectile Dysfunction treatment side -- am I reading this correct?
Also, you've mentioned in a number of places that you've got a regimen of treatment that you've worked out that seems to have good results.  I noticed that you haven't posted it, and was wondering if you made it available on personal requests.
I'm going to take the Soma Correct 'prescription' form from their website to my Uro Wednesday to see if I can get that unit.  Otherwise, I'll ask for the Osbon unit unless you have any other suggestions.

BTW, I'll be documenting my progress  with the VED too, so maybe I'll have some results to post here like mick.
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Old Man

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Re: VED's and other Devices/suggested usage of VED
« Reply #133 on: April 09, 2006, 08:14:22 PM »

Steve:

Yes, I did at one time on the old BTC forum post the exact formula (Regimen) that I used to work my Peyronies Disease symptoms. There so much heat placed on that post that I just gave up and did not list anymore. It has been given to a number of guys who have asked for it off line on that forum and some on this one too. It is available to any and all who have a desire to use the VED therapy.

To explain a bit further about the two medically qualified VEDs that I have used, I would give this information: First, the Osbon Esteem model with a little change in their instructions works very well for Peyronies Disease therapy in addition to the primary purpose of Erectile Dysfunction therapy, Second, the Soma Correct was designed primarily for Peyronies Disease and it was marketed by several distributors until Augusta Medical had to "pull the plug" to speak since they ran into a problem. It can still be purchased from Augusta as an Erectile Dysfunction therapy device. The Soma Correct has its own protocol covering a 26 week course for Peyronies Disease. Do not know if that protocol comes with the unit now when purchased.

Bottom line is this, either unit can be used for Erectile Dysfunction as well as Peyronies Disease. Both are of good medical quality and have a life time warranty as far as I know now. The warranty should be a question to ask at the time of purchase, etc.

If I can help further, let me know. If you decide on the Osbon Esteem manual model, I will give your all the assistance you desire about a routine to use.

Good luck to you in getting the VED and ask about insurance coverage. Some companies will pay at least a portion of it.

Sincerely, Old Man
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Re: VED's and other Devices; re Soma Correct protocol
« Reply #134 on: April 09, 2006, 10:44:38 PM »

Old Man and Steve:

     The Augusta protocol for the Soma Correct is indeed included in the instruction manual which accompanies the device when purchased.  If anyone wants to see it, I can give it to them off line.  It can only be used with a 3 vacuum chamber apparatus.

Respy, Mick
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Re: Going to try the VED route...
« Reply #135 on: April 10, 2006, 01:15:09 AM »

Steve,

I am curious- who is your URO- and did he discuss or suggest the IONTOPHORESIS by www.physion.com- I am trying to fin other guys who have used this protocol before buying-where is he located?

Hopeful


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Re: VED's and other Devices
« Reply #136 on: April 10, 2006, 07:37:11 AM »

Hopeful,

As I mentioned in some of my earlier posts (in the Verapamil... forum), I brought up the subject of Ionto at about my second visit, and it was met with a blank stare.  He was totally unaware of the process!  I showed him the articles I'd printed off from Dr Levine in Chicago, and his comment was that they 'don't do that here', and they don't have the equipment.

Later, I'd contacted Dr Levine directly, and although he didn't have any studys going on that would pay for the unit, he offered to set me up with a Ionto unit at my own expen$e (1000-1500).  Between the out of pocket expense and the idea of 'visiting' a Dr over the phone/internet for treatment, I elected to go with VI with 0 results after 10 injections.  Although, my Dr says he had another Peyronies Disease patient who showed a great deal of improvement after his 2nd injection (lucky guy!).

Steve
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Re: VED's and other Devices; re Soma Correct protocol
« Reply #137 on: April 10, 2006, 08:23:46 AM »

Mick- what are the (3) sizes-????


Hopeful!

     The Augusta protocol for the Soma Correct is indeed included in the instruction manual which accompanies the device when purchased.  If anyone wants to see it, I can give it to them off line.  It can only be used with a 3 vacuum chamber apparatus.

Respy, Mick
[/quote]
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Re: VED's and other Devices/sizes of cylinders and/or inserts
« Reply #138 on: April 10, 2006, 02:46:37 PM »

hopeful:

Read your post about the sizes of the Soma Correct cylinders that you wrote Mick, but I will take the liberty to post them for you:

1. small black insert, I.D. 1 and 1/2 inches
2. large black insert, I.D. 1 and 3/4 inches
3. cylinder A penis end, 1 and 3/8 inches, approx. I.D.
4. cylinder B penis end, 1 and 7/8 inches, approx. I.D.
5. cylinder C penis end, 2 and 1/8 inches, approx. I.D.

I say approximately on penis end since I do not have a micrometer for a more accurate measurement.
The above sizes will suffice since they are not that critical.

All three cylinders nest into each other for the very first week's therapy sesssion. At first, it will probably seem awfully small and there might be some difficulty in getting your penis to work up into it. Using plenty lubricant and being patient with the first sessions will produce results, so one must be cautious at first. Patience is the watchword at all times when using a VED. Extreme caution must also be exercised in order not to over pump the vacuum pressure. At any sign of pain or discomfort, one must stop the pumping, relax the pressure and resume after several minutes.

The 26 week protocol for the Soma requires that one use all three cylinders in an orderly routine as specified on a weekly basis. Some exercises require one use the different size inserts to allow for expansion of the penis during use of the larger cylinders. The instructions stated which cylinder(s) to use for each specified week's exercises. Also, there is definite time and number of cycles that one is supposed to do, etc.

I have been evaluating the Soma Correct manual model for Augusta now for about 8 months and find that is it will work for Peyronies Disease exercises as well as for Erectile Dysfunction. For Erectile Dysfunction, one has to order the separte retainer ring package to hold up the erections after pumping. I use the Soma for maintenance of what I have achieved on the Peyronies Disease symptoms and when I use it for Erectile Dysfunction, I simply use the Osbon Esteem manual model retainer rings as they work just as well.

Hope that the above gives you the info you desired. If there is anything further that I can help with, let me know. Mick and I have been talking by emails back and forth about the VED regimen, etc. so he knows about all this too.

Regards, Old Man

PS: Hopeful, forgot to mention the length of the cylinders. They measure a maximum useable length at 7 inches. Any penis longer than that would require longer cylinders. Do not know if Augusta Medical can provide longer cylinders or not. I will try to fin out and let everyone know.
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Re: VED's and other Devices: sizes of cylinders
« Reply #139 on: April 10, 2006, 04:06:56 PM »

Old Man,

Good explanation.  One small typo, though.  #5 should read cylinder C.  By the way I am in week 7, the first with cyl. C alone.  I fit very easily into cyl. A right from the start, so the other combos are naturally no problem.  The vacuum is so strong that I expand to fill the entire diameter of cyl. C after the 2nd. or 3rd. pump!

Regards, Mick
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Re: VED's and other Devices
« Reply #140 on: April 10, 2006, 06:17:38 PM »

Hi!

Although I am following this forum (and the old one before) for about a year (from the onset of my Peyronies Disease), this is my first post here…

My case is not much different then the most of the stories here... Got first mild symptoms (small lump) about a year ago (I was 27). Went immediately to the uro and he calm me down saying all I need are few shots of some medicine (VI)...I visited his office for about 6 months and got about 6 injection as well… Needles to say the remedy did not work at all… The situation worsened…I now have few lumps and a curve for about 35 degrees…Anyway…did some research, find this forum, bought some Vit E, PABA, Acetyl L-Carnitine…It seems it helped a little – at least the pain is gone...the curve however remains…

I am considering also the VED, but one think questions me over and over again… I still have normal erections – night erections and also regular sex life. Is the erection produced by VED in any way different then the natural one? Since, obviously the natural daily erections are not eliminating my Peyronies Disease symptoms (although they might be much worse without them, who knows)…So basically I would like to know your opinion – can the erection produced by VED be more curative then the natural one? And if yes, why; what are the differences in the mechanisms? I was thinking that maybe this protocol is the key – since the erections are repeated in short period of time…which is of course not the case by natural erection…

Thanks for your help and also a big thanks to all individuals who are working so hard for this great community!

Vincenc
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Re: Vincenc - VED vs. Natural Erections
« Reply #141 on: April 10, 2006, 07:05:18 PM »

Vincenc,

Thank you for stepping up and becoming one of those that you thank for making this a great community.  Your thanks is demonstrated even more by your participation than it is with the statement of thanks, and it is very appreciated.

Your question is a very thought provoking one that I have pondered at length.  I also think I have a lengthy post somewhere on this topic with similar questions and my thoughts.  In short, my personal opinion based on my logic and some established facts is that a firm natural erection is better than a VED erection.  It would have as much stretching power, much more oxygenation power (much of the blood VED's pull in is O2 depleted venous blood, not O2 rich arterial blood)

I do think a VED is superior to weak natural erections .  I have never heard a satisfactory
explanation why someone that gets a very firm natural erection during the day, and the usual several firm nightly erections, would benefit from a VED.  If anyone can provide a convincing explaination, I would like to join in the discussion.

PS: My post was Pro's and Con's of VED's on Nov 30th 2005
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Re: VED's and other Devices/correction to post relative Soma cylinders
« Reply #142 on: April 10, 2006, 09:09:22 PM »

Mick:

Good show on what has developed for you in just a few weeks. Keep up the good work. I corrected my post about cylinder C.

Thanks, Old Man
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Re: VED's and other Devices/Pros and cons on VED usage
« Reply #143 on: April 10, 2006, 09:28:44 PM »

Hawk and Vincenc:

Hawk, You and I have discussed this subject many times and I agree with you in that the VED draws both venous and arterial blood into the penis. However, the VED produces an erection much firmer than even the best natural erection. That in itself is not so good because to hold up an erection that firm produced by the VED it must be supported by the retainer(s) otherwise it would revert back to the natural one. If one can develop a natural erection firm enough for intercourse, they are ahead of the game so to speak.

So, now about the benefit of using the VED to get erections and/or for Peyronies Disease therapy. If used properly and in moderation, the VED can and will produce very good erections and good therapy for Peyronies Disease. Used for Erectile Dysfunction is no problem because all one has to do it simply pump up the erection, slide the retainer ring off the cylinder onto the penis and finish the intercourse, etc. Used for Peyronies Disease therapy, the pumping action has to be done under controlled conditions or in a set pattern in order to produce the desired results. A strict regimen of exercises done on a daily basis over a long period of time is required to see good results. Therefore, one must have patience to continue these exercises even though it seems no progress is being made. Some guys see immediate results, others work for months without success. Others never get good resullts.

So, bottom line of what I am saying is that one has to try the VED exercise to be able to know if results for him are obtainable. It is kind of like the old adage, nothing ventured, nothing gained. In my particular case, all known treatments and efforts to get rid of the Peyronies Disease symptoms failed. Other posts on this and the old forum have been devoted to my history so I won't repeat it here. All I know, is that the VED therapy regimen that I followed for about 6 months got rid of all my symptoms and at present there is no hourglass indentation nor plaque/nodules that I can discern. The routine was developed under the supervision of my urologist who had administered the VI injections along with other meds, etc.

Vincenc: Hope that the above might give you some insight about what the VED therapy did for one individual. There are others on this forum and the old forum that have experienced similar results. It would only be fair to state and there are posts indicating no results.  As I said above, one has to try the routine to be able to know if results for himself can be obtained.

To answer your questions about short duration erections versus natural ones, I say that during the therapy routine with the VED, you do produce more erections or near erections that are firmer than most natural ones. The repeated exercise of the erectile tissue and tunica is the key to more stretching action of VED erections than the stretching done by natural erection. Thus, the tunica being stretched beyond that of natural erections causes it to retain its stretched condition longer than that done with natural erections.

The above carries my usual caveat in that the opinions expressed are clearly only those of myself. I am not a doctor, but do have considerable experience in Erectile Dysfunction and Peyronies Disease counseling.

Sincerely, Old Man
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Age 89. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

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Re: VED's and other Devices
« Reply #144 on: April 11, 2006, 07:43:19 AM »

 ??? Old Man and all...doesn't the fact that the cylinder of the VED 'forces' the erection to be straight (or at least straighter) have some bearing on the VED's results too?  To my un-informed brain, the fact that the bend is forced straighter during the erection places more tension on the plaque and thus more stretching and straightening.  Any thoughts?
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Topical Verapamil,
12 Verapamil shots (ouch!),
Now VED - Too many Weeks,
Still 70 Degrees :(

Old Man

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Re: VED's and other Devices/effects of VED cylinder on straightening
« Reply #145 on: April 11, 2006, 09:34:52 AM »

Steve:
You are 100% correct in saying that the effect of the cylinder has a bearing on straightening the penile curve of Peyronies Disease. Since the shaft is more or less held in place while pumping, the resistance causes more blood flow to be placed in that area. That is the principle of the three cylinders of the Soma Correct VED.

The three cylinders range in size from about 1 and 1/2 inches up 2 inches. There are two sizing inserts that are used on a varying basis according to which cylinder(s) one is using. I just got an email from one of the marketing managers at Augusta Medical Systems explaining a few details about the protocol that did come with the Soma package. He stated that the 26 week protocol is no longer packaged with their VEDs until further notice. He gave me a web site where they can be obtained. I also have it stored on my computer and can forward it to any an all who wish to have it.

Again, the cylinder does play a part in helping straighten the penis while using the VED. That is the primary reason for their use.

Regards, Old Man
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Age 89. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

vincenc

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Re: VED's and other Devices
« Reply #146 on: April 11, 2006, 07:06:44 PM »

Hi

Thank you all for taking time and provide ASAP answers….

Hawk – Yes, I agree with you totally… I am aware of the O2 issue. But on the other hand there were posts from other patients that also claimed to have firm natural erections, but yet gave credits to their recovery to the VED….However, such posts are not numerous enough to make a final judgment. This is one of the reasons, why I agree that it is important to participate in the forum…Hopefully we could statistically pick out some of the most efficient approaches…

Old Man – The repeated exercise makes indeed some differences when compared to natural erection…Maybe this is the key, who knows…You said in your last post, you can forward the soma correct protocol….If it is not too much trouble, I would be very gratefully if you can mail it to my address  ([email protected])

Thank you.

Have a nice day!

Vincenc
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Old Man

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Re: VED's and other Devices/Soma Protocol
« Reply #147 on: April 11, 2006, 10:33:36 PM »

vincenc:

I have two computers that are used in working on the forums and the protocol is on the one that is not being used today. Will send it from the other one directly to your email address as soon as I boot it up again.

Regards, Old Man
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Age 89. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

Steve

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Re: VED's and other Devices
« Reply #148 on: April 12, 2006, 01:06:52 AM »

Old Man,
I'm going in to the Uro's tomorrow and plan to ask for a VED.  I'm going to ask for the Soma Correct, but may get the Osbon (or something else?).  Is the protocol document that you've compiled the same for the Soma and the Osbon, or is it specific to one or the other?
Thanks for your experience.
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Topical Verapamil,
12 Verapamil shots (ouch!),
Now VED - Too many Weeks,
Still 70 Degrees :(

vincenc

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Re: VED's and other Devices
« Reply #149 on: April 12, 2006, 02:39:48 AM »

"I have two computers that are used in working on the forums and the protocol is on the one that is not being used today. Will send it from the other one directly to your email address as soon as I boot it up again."

No need to hurry...Thank you very much in advance!

Regards,

Vincenc

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