VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices

[Tim468]

Pete,

No one here - to my memory - has described the "turtle effect" to either use, or overuse, of the VED.

Since the turtle effect refers to smooth muscle mediated contraction of the penis causing it to withdraw, a tendency to pull it back out would be expected to lead to an "anti-turtle" effect from use of the VED. However, I have not heard of that either.

The problems that you keep describing with the use of the VED (bruising, turtle effect and ED) make me think that either you are doing it wrong, or that you are doing it "right" but it is bad for you.

Tim

[Pete28]

Tim

How can it be bad when done not very long and at very low pressure?

Even people with servere corporal fibrosis have benefit from it.
Maybe the turtle-effect is not from the VED.

I think i might have a condition between normal elastin tissue and corporal fibrosis. The collagen seems to build up slowly.

No doc seems to know what my condition really means: i have a croocked penis with ED but according to doctors it's no congenital curvature (it's had become worse with time and mostly this is not accompagnied with ED), corporal fibrosis or Peyronies ...   Flaccid penis continues to harden but seems to hang a bit looser after using the VED MODERATLY and with short sessions.
There is one weird aspect of it: when i trie to build up an erection slowly, the veins dont seem to keep the blood in (constant stimulation required to keep things going). But when i have used to VED very moderately, then take a hot bath, after stimulation for some time the blood rushes in it at once, the 'gates' seem to open and the veins pinch (a lot better then when i dont use the VED but only take Cialis).

Fysical conditon is very bad: i quit smoking two days ago and went running yesterday. Was totally exhausted after half a mile. Maybe this can partially explain ED?

So indeed, i probably was wrong it has something to do with the VED. Only when i overuse it, i seem to take a few steps backwards.

[Tim468]

Well, Pete, I don't know how it can be bad for you. But the proof of a pudding is in the eating, and if you use the VED and you're worse off afterward, then I wouldn't do that.

Has the VED helped you in any way at all? It also sounds like you have multiple things going on that would affect your health and specifically your ability to get an erection. It may be premature to blame the VED for anything going on. All that any of us can do is speculate as we are not urologists and have not (and will not) examined you.

Tim

[newguy]

It's important to listen to your body Pete. If you're worried about what you're experiencing maybe give the VED a rest for a few days, then try again at a lower pressure. How about building up over time, by using the VED once or twice a week, for a month, then moving to daily use? At low pressure, I really don't think most people are going to experience many problems with the VED. There are exceptions to every rule of course, but many people have had good results from VED use.

[Pete28]

I'm afraid i've got massive venous leakage, probably due to structural changes within corpora and/or tunica  ...  

I hope VED can help a bit to stretch the tissue and close up the 'gap'.  

[joecancer]

Does anyone have a link to the best posts with instructions on how to use the OTC 3 cylinder pump? I can't get over how poor the instructions that came with the device are (especially for something that supposedly can cause serious damage!) I'm looking for instructions down to every last detail on how I am supposed to use this thing before I will try it.  I saw the protocol posts on this site, but they don't really give details on how to put the thing together and work it - they talk more about what to do once you figure those things out.  There's a lot of info on this site, but I'm just looking for the basics: how do I put it together, and how do I use it?  Thanks, Joe.

[Jackieo]

joecancer:
What model do you have?  I have been on the Vitality Manual 3-tube pump from Fitzz.
If you own that model I can walk you through it and offer some advice.
JackieO

[joecancer]

Yeah, I have the manual 3 cylinder one from Fittz too.  Thanks very much.  I appreciate it.

[SurfMan]

hello everybody, my name is Alex.  i have been dealing with peyronies for about four years now and am 24 years old.  I was prescribed a ved after finding this site and have kind of been a lurker for awhile.  I am extremely appreciative of all the information on here.  It gives me hope knowing that there are lots of other people suffering from the same condition and that peyronies can improve over time.  As far as my peyronie's stats, I have a curve to the left and some hinging I guess would be the term for it.  I have tried using my ved according to the 26 week program but find that it is hard for me to use the B and C tubes.  I have been having good results with just the A tube though.  My erections have been much fuller and penis feels more "elastic" when flaccid.  I feel I have also had some straightening. I have tried using the other tubes but my scrotal skin tends to get sucked up into the tubes on the B and C tubes.  This in turn is painful and uncomfortable and leads me to terminate my pumping session.  Other than that, i have not had any problems with using the VED, i am careful to advoid over pumping and am listening to my body when pumping.  If anybody has any advice on how to keep the scrotal skin from sucking up into the tubes when pumping, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Alex

edit, sorry moderators for the numbers in the name, I did not read very carefully, also, you can change my name to surf man if you want so it is pronounceable.  My fault for not paying attention.

[Jackieo]

Surfman:  I just traded messages with Old Man today on this very topic.  I have the Vitality 3-tube Manual Pump by Fitzz.
It came with two black rubber rings.  The larger ring is necessary to keep the two-or-three tubes connected as a single unit and to keep a better seal against your body.  If you find a more comfortable fit using the A Tube but are suffering from pinching of your scrotum (up into the tube)...suggest that you insert the smaller of the two rubber rings into the larger base ring.  Th two rings nest too.  This will make a more "snug" fit at the base of your penis and might prevent what you are currently experiencing.  Also, I find it helpful if (prior to insertion) you wipe any excess lube off the palm of your hand onto the rubber end of the tube (for a better seal).
Jackieo

[Hawk]

Also make sure you keep ALL lubricant off of your scrotum.

[crookedmile]

I am wondering if people here think this device would be useful as a VED for Peyronie's or not. Thanks
http//www.link disabled by moderator.com

[cowboyfood]

I am wondering if people here think this device would be useful as a VED for Peyronie's or not. Thanks
link disabled

I don't know if that particular device is useful for Peyronie's disease, but the following link is to a VED that many board members use for such treatment:

http://www.fitzz.com/Vitality-Plus-Three-Cylinder-Vacuum-Therapy-System--Recommended-for-Peyronies-Therapy_p_503-1983.html

You do not need a prescription for it, and you get a discount if you order online and put the word "team" in the discount code portion of the web page.

Have you read the "Highlights of VED" section located on the child boards yet?

CF

[StamenMedicalSystems]

The Erec-Tech vacuum erection device manufactured by Stamen Medical Systems is, by far, the best vacuum device on the market.  Suprisingly enough, Medicare and private insurance usually pick up the majority of the cost.  If you call them at (866) 506-7107 they will actually get the prescription from your doctor for you and bill your insurance directly.  You can also visit their website at www.link disabled by moderator.com and purchase an over the counter system if you don't want to deal with a physician.

Also available at Stamen Medical Systems is the Fast Size Extender.  This is a traction device that is being prescribed regualarly by leading Urologists.  It is not covered by insurance, but only costs $298.00.  This device will place the penis under constant traction thus helping to break up the fibrotic plaque.  If you can financially afford it and have good insurance, I would recommend both products.  

You will be very pleased with both the products and service you will receive from Stamen Medical Systems.  

[Angus]

  I would highly recommend that new members at least give us the courtesy of an introduction and discussion of a product before making a first post that is a billboard-type advertisement for a product with a hyperlink. Please read the forum rules that can be found on our home page. Angus, moderator

[RichB]

I sometimes wonder why vacuum devices and traction devices cost so much. 300 bucks for some bits of metal and plastic? Please. I'd have a better investment making the thing myself.

[Attica!]

RichB,
  I agree with you about the prices of VED's and traction devices. The medical/pharma industrial cabal knows that men would spend anything (and do anything) to keep their member long and limber. I hate to say it but if a traction device or VED cost $2500.00 I would find some way to pay it.
  Maybe Mr. StamenMedicalSystems, instead on being a self-serving, sleaze-ball, shameless shill, could explain to us just how they justify charging the price they do.
  Speaking of making a device yourself...does anyone remember that guy (I think his name was Robert) that was going to send out a traction device he made himself. I signed up, got an email from him and then he just disappeared. ,

[Tim468]

RichB,
    Maybe Mr. StamenMedicalSystems, instead on being a self-serving, sleaze-ball, shameless shill, could explain to us just how they justify charging the price they do.
  Speaking of making a device yourself...does anyone remember that guy (I think his name was Robert) that was going to send out a traction device he made himself. I signed up, got an email from him and then he just disappeared. ,

LOL... With a request like that, I am sure StamenMedicalSystems will come rushing back to chat!

Many of us have made our own three cylinder "system" by, um, buying three cylinders separately. Indeed, when you buy a system, you get a fancy box, manuals, and a (and this is pretty important) warranty. Moreover, you can sometimes get it paid for by insurance.

But a "medical device" has to pass some standards, and an insurance company is not going to pay for a device that might easily pinch skin, cause an allergic reaction to materials, or do something else adverse. Therefore, although not all devices need to be "tested", they do need to meet manufacturing standards. This is the primary reason that they are more expensive - the production requires more work for it to be able to meet such standards (an example is the "AndroGold" device which advertises a lower rate of allergic reaction to the gold plated metal compared to other similar devices).

Nevertheless, I will tell you that I have bought three cylinders from different vendors for a price ranging from $50 - $75 each, with a manual hand pump that cost me $25, and the total cost came to much less than $200. It does not have a warranty, but it is 2-3 years old with no signs of damage. I made one traction device (too much effort and too unwieldy) and bought one that was very well designed, though fairly amateurish in execution, and they have worked quite well as intended. I do not use it, as I believe it may have aggravated my Peyronie's - this is the aggravating thing about this disease - nothing always works (or we would all do it).

Finally, I too was wondering about that inventor who was so clever that he had created a new device and wanted men who were willing to sign a bloody vow of silence (so professional!) and then ::POOF::     gone...  Given how many of us get renewed hopes with every new thing that comes down the pike, I find that most reprehensible (not to mention the lack of sharing of details to protect his "patent"...). I wondered if it was all a bunch of hokum. Seems like it was.

Tim

[Hawk]

Speaking of making a device yourself...does anyone remember that guy (I think his name was Robert) that was going to send out a traction device he made himself. I signed up, got an email from him and then he just disappeared. ,

Speaking of that guy, what makes it more funny is how he chided all of us for being clueless about traction and how he was going to change all that with his revolutionary new design. At least when I developed my JackTrac system I included photos and a description  

Now that I amused myself I will go back to work.

[Thin Man]

Unlike most of you I don't have much of a curvature, my deepest sympathies to those of you who do. I however have a recent hourglass deformity, which fortunately is not so bad I'm getting buckling. I'm told by Dr. Wessels here in Seattle that hourglassing is one of the most difficult conditions to correct. I also have mild, diffuse scarring from surgery done 15 years ago. About 6 months ago re injured myself resulting in shrinkage in both length and circumference, but my main concern is the recent hourglass deformity at about the midpoint of my penis which I think is interfering with ejaculation. Then again my reduced functioning could also be due to the overall reduction in circumference in about half my penis, the distal half.

My question is - could it be that use of a VED might make hourglassing or internal narrowing worse? If regular VED use helps the penis expand outward, improving length and external circumference, might it also cause expansion inward putting more pressure on the urethra? The last thing I want to do is reduce my ejaculatory functioning even further. Has anyone had experience with a VED and hourglassing and/or narrowing?

In gratitude,

Thin Man

[Angus]

I used the VED for years with no negative changes in the hourglass. I don't remember anyone ever posting about problems with VED use and bad hourglass changes, and especially never heard anyone speak of ejaculatory problems after VED use. I can't imagine how VED use would narrow anything including the urethra but I suppose it would be possible to damage anything with VED abuse by overpumping. Did you discuss the reduced ejaculatory problem with your Dr.? There is no way to diagnose this on the forum; you need to talk to him about this. You mention mild, diffuse scarring but you don't say where this is or what the surgery was for. You'd have to talk to your Dr. about the two being possibly related. Apprehension about VED use can be addressed by going with the protocol as a guide, and to use light vacuum until a person learns the basics of the VED. The VED used properly will not damage anything.  

[Thin Man]

Angus, Thank you so much. It's been awhile since I've written - my history is a bit of a story. Someday when I get the energy I will have to write an entry for personal histories so readers can refer to that. In brief - I had surgery in 1995 - a mircovascular penile bypass due to arterial blockage from an old injury. My scarring began as a direct result of one the tests prior to this - the intern stuck two large needles into my penis - just behind the glans, but one of these he had to do four times before he got it right. This was to "inflate" the penis with saline solution in order to do an arteriogram. I got a lump at the point of the multiple needle stick that never went away. Some months later scarring started expanding from this point and reached almost half my penis, causing reduction in circumference but no substantial curvature. I'm told the scarring is diffuse, I have very few noticeable lumps, and a recent Doppler study shows no visible fibrosis.

My narrowing gradually improved over the years, but suddenly got worse again last November after an unfortunate incident. I was experimenting with a low dose of Levitra which wasn't working so well for me, so I then used an erection ring which worked, but when I climaxed I got incredible pain. Directly after this the area of narrowing suddenly got worse than before and expanded further up my penis about half an inch. This new expanded area is noticeably narrower than the rest during both a flaccid and erect state, but I'm grateful my erect penis hasn't started to buckle at this spot.

I would urge that anyone not use erection enhancing medications and an erection ring at the same time, this was the biggest mistake of my life. I know some of you have found this to be useful, but please if you're considering doing this consider also what happened to me.

Since my re injury in November my ejaculations have been greatly reduced in time and intensity. I don't know for certain if this is a direct result of the area of waisting at about the midpoint of the penile shaft, or if it's the result of reduced circumference in the distal half of the penis, or maybe both, but I assume these are related. My recent injury correlates exactly with reduced ejaculation. It's improved somewhat since then but it's not the same anymore.

Since VED use helps erectile tissue expand, my fear is that it could expand in all directions including towards the urethra, or is there a good reason to assume that's wrong?

I've asked Dr. Wessells about the ejaculatory problem and he doesn't have any suggestions for me. He doesn't strongly encourage me to use a VED or not use it, but he thinks if I'm going to try it longer intervals might be more beneficial than shorter ones. He's a surgeon, and has concluded that surgery and injection therapy are not good options for me (I agree), and that the time for me to take oral medications (Pentox, Potaba) would have been soon after the re injury - he thinks it's basically too late now. I tried Pentox at the time and it gave me dizzy spells, I had to stop - have been taking some other supplements. From November to February I lost about an inch in length and have regained a slight amount of circumference. Things seem to have stabilized somewhat by now (I hope, but who knows?). I'd like to regain length and especially circumference, but using the VED seems risky to me considering the nature of my injury.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Thin Man  

[Hawk]

Reduced ejaculation is frequently the result of some retrograde ejaculation caused by enlarged prostate.  Some or all of the semen takes the less restricted route at the point the two pathways join and gets sidetracked into the bladder.  Retrograde ejaculation in itself is not a major health concern but what is causing it could be.  There may be other causes for reduced ejaculation but If you have decent urine flow than it would not urethra constriction from Peyronies Disease.  I think it is accurate to say that most of the urethra support comes from the lesser 3rd chamber corprus spongiosum which prevents it from being squeezed during erection.  Scaring there would tend to cause a downward curve and MAY cause some urethra constriction during erection.  I don't state this from any expert advice but only from what I have gleaned from discussion with Peyronies Disease doctors and reading.

Dr. Levine's very small preliminary traction study indicated improvement in hourglass deformity for what that is worth.

[bummedout]

I also have only hourglassing and indentations that cause buckling.  My last plaque was caused by my urologist sticking a needle in me to give me an erection so he could "have a look".  I would never mess with a needle again, for anything down there.  Has anyone had any luck using a VED to get rid of their plaque, increase rigidity, and to fill out their indentations?

[Thin Man]

Hi Bummedout,

My sympathies. As you can see from my post yesterday I also got my first injury from a needle, although I recently had a needle to get me erect for an ultrasound and I don't believe it's caused a problem (that was two months ago, we shall see) - the Doc used an insulin needle, and was careful not to go anywhere near existing scars.

You'll find many positive reviews here on VEDs for straightening but not much on hourglassing - anyone else care to weigh in on this?

Thanks so much Hawk,

You may be on to something there. My recent injury was partly caused by an rather stiff erection ring with a gap for the urethra (is that what they call a "C ring"?, not sure). I tried a variety of erection rings and found all of them to be extremely unpleasant when reaching ejaculation - it was exactly what you described - semen backing up and a burning sensation in the bladder. I found the C ring to be somewhat less aversive.

After my recent injury I got pain at the site of my old injury - near the tip of the penis (the site of the old needle stick) but also a few brand new areas of pain including the base of the penis. My Chinese acupuncturist suggested that this might be a muscular injury and could be causing some of my ejaculatory symptoms. He strongly recommended Kegel exercises which I've been doing regularly. Lately I began Dr. Herazy's suggested 8 second Kegels. I've had some ejaculatory improvement, but I'd say it's maybe only halfway back to normal. I've had no pain at all at the base of the penis since the first few weeks after my recent injury.

I don't believe I've got an enlarged prostate, I had the standard test about a year ago and they tell me mine seems normal. My recent ejculation problem began suddenly coinciding exactly with my recent injury in November. At the same time I had sudden circumferential shrinkage (which includes the corpus spongiosum!) throughout the distal end of my penis, although I haven't noticed a change in urination since then. I don't have a downward curvature and very little curvature overall, just this #$%@ shrinkage and hourglassing. Actually I've had some difficulty with urination for years, but I don't believe it's an extreme case, just the normal stuff men go through as they age. My ejaculations have generally seemed ok over the years until my recent injury, although for the last five years or so I've sometimes had more difficulty reaching ejaculation, but I think that's an entirely different problem - I think I've lost some sensitivity due to scarring. Ok maybe aging has something to do with it too.

Anyway, I'm just not totally convinced that VED use won't cause pressure on the urethra if there's hourglassing. Looking at a cross section diagram of the penis, it would make sense to me that both corpus carvernosa would expand in every direction possible - I assume most of that would be outward circumference and length being limited only by the tunica I guess, but each individual corpus cavernosa also presses against the corpus spongiosum surrounding the urethra and I assume would also expand that way too. For a guy with circumferential shrinkage perhaps even more expansion would go that way(?). Dr. Wessels reports he sees no damage to the tunica which gives me some hope, but I'm approaching the VED with caution, I've only tried it about 3 times, several weeks ago. My reduced ejaculations are my biggest frustration right now. I know this sounds shallow, but much to my surprise I'm suddenly starting to care less about relationships, sex, and life in general. I hope this will pass. I sure don't want to make my condition any worse.

Over and out,

Thin Man

[crookedmile]

Hi all
I suppose I should introduce myself a bit. I am 58 years old and I developed Peyronie's from an accident during sex in Feb 08. The bending seems to have been stable for the past 9 mo or so, about 80 degrees up. Intercourse very difficult and certainly there is pain after any erection, which I have found alpha lipoic acid to be very helpful in moderating. Been checking out the directions and photos for DIY VEDs. I have some degree of handiness with tools and materials and they do look awfully simple so am thinking of saving myself some money. Here are some questions I've come up with. I have read many of the posts in this section but not all so please excuse if some of these have already been answered.
1.Why does the cylinder have to be clear?
2.Can the cylinders be perfectly cylindrical or does one end I.D. have to be less than the other (conical)?
3.Is there some importance to the thickness of the walls of the cylinders?
4.Given individual's different penis sizes flaccid and erect what are the ideal I.D. sizes relative of the 3 cylinders?
5.Since some have used sex toy suction bulbs is it inconceivable that enough suction could be generated by the mouth connected to a tube and a valve to produce vacuum in the cylinders?
6.I have seen many suggestions on lubes. What is the current thinking for effectiveness and cost?
7.If successful, is a VED going to help the pain factor associated with during and after erections?
Thanks very much.

[cowboyfood]

1.Why does the cylinder have to be clear?

I'm using the Vitality VED and the tubes are clear.  In my opinion, a clear tube is more likely to be safer because you can see your penis as it is engorged by the negative pressure, and this may help to prevent overpumping.

Also, many VED users like to take some measurements of their penis in an engorged state (especially with the middle and larger tubes), so it seems to me it would be it would be easier to take any measurements with a clear tube.

CF

[Angus]

Some thoughts in reply to your questions:

1. The cylinder should be clear so you can observe physical changes such as skin tightness and skin color for safety. You can tell a lot by physical sensation but you need to see the physical changes as an erection is developed.
2. You do not have to have conical tubes. Straight walled tubes work just fine.
3. Cylinder wall thickness must be thick enough to provide rigidity to the tube. If the walls flex inward when the air is evacuated, it is too thin.
4. The smallest tube is usually 1 1/2 inches inside diameter. I have not owned a commercial 3 tube VED and I am not certain of the larger tubes diameters of those.
5. I use a sex toy grade vacuum bulb-type pump for my VED's. It certainly can produce the required vacuum. You are only dealing with -3 to -5 inches Hg of vacuum to produce an erection in a VED.
6. I like Astroglide as I believe it stays "slick" longer. Old Man and others have great success using the Wal Mart house brand of water-based lubricant. I have used it in the past and is certainly good enough for VED use.
7. I can't say if the VED can help with present pain as I did not have great pain in the early stages of Peyronies. I can only say that the little pain I had eventually got better then went away; I cannot say for certain that it was a result of straightening via VED use, but I feel that straightening and re-modelling by VED use may have had something to do with pain reduction in the long run.  

[Angus]

  Posts dealing with making your own VED's have been in the VED section of the Child Boards for a long time, but I realize that they may be hard to find given the amount of posts and texts in that section. I have changed the font color of the posts dealing with making VED's to bright RED in the VED Child Board section to make them easier to find. A note at the beginning of that section about this change is also added and the note is in RED font color as well. I hope this makes finding this information easier for individuals to find.

Here is a direct link to the VED section of the Child Boards:

https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,439.0.html

[shrout]

 Has anyone had any luck using a VED to get rid of their plaque, increase rigidity, and to fill out their indentations?

Bummedout, I don't think it's possible to get rid of plaque with the VED, although some of the more knowledgable posters may correct me on this.  What the VED does is to enable the rest of the penis, the healthy tissue, to "fill out", to stretch, especially around the plaque, where most of the stress of the vacuum pressure is concentrated. This is how, in theory, curvature and hourglassing is reduced. I think. Don't quote me on this.

In my experience the stretching and filling out has been temporary... possibly because I haven't been rigorous enough with my regime. My understanding is that for a permanent change to take place a regime of 2x30 min. sessions daily for 6 months is necessary. Even then there's only a 30% approx. chance of permanent improvement, so I'm told.  If others have got rid of plaque with the VED I apologise, but I suspect if that's the case it might have been used in conjunction with other treatments e.g. Pentox, or whilst still in the active phase.

All the above just my opinion/experience. I am not a doctor.

[Hawk]

Just a reminder that these instructions are at least 3 places on the forum including the original post buried somewhere in this topic, the childboards under VED, and the easiest to find is under their own topic in the board entitled Resource Library. If you go to this last topic you will also find links that Tim provided as a source for cylinders.

On the forum home page just click on the Peyronies Disease Resource Library and you will see the topic about 4th topic down.

[LWillisjr]

Bummedout, I don't think it's possible to get rid of plaque with the VED, although some of the more knowledgeable posters may correct me on this.  What the VED does is to enable the rest of the penis, the healthy tissue, to "fill out", to stretch, especially around the plaque, where most of the stress of the vacuum pressure is concentrated. This is how, in theory, curvature and hourglassing is reduced. I think. Don't quote me on this.

Shrout,
Sorry to disagree. The healthy tissue doesn't "fill out" around the plaque. The concept is to actually stretch the plaque and make it more pliable. Using a traction device is the same concept. This is also why many also take a combination of natural and prescription drugs to also make the plaque softer and more pliable.

Les

[youngling]

Hello all,

I am posting now to make note that I have begun a protocol for the recent VED I purchased.  This is the Vitality 3 cylinder that everyone seems to be getting.

I have posted before, but am going to recap.  This is now almost 2 years since I have had my modified Nesbit (Plication) Surgery for an approximately 35 degree CONGENITAL downwards curve. Since then, sutures are still fairly palpable (if you look for them) and penis has a minor residual downwards curvature.

Due to the surgical scar around the circumcision site which is still a bit raised, the smallest A cylinder is giving me trouble, in that, I do not believe I will be using it much during the protocol, instead going straight to the B Medium cylinder, as this allows for a decent amount of stretching with a moderately low amount of negative pressure.

I will carefully be monitoring the palpability of my suture sites (stopping the protocol if these get more noticeable), and also the amount of residual curvature (currently approximately 15 degrees).

Should be posting in about two weeks with progress.  Any advice?  please do tell!

[shrout]

Shrout,
Sorry to disagree. The healthy tissue doesn't "fill out" around the plaque. The concept is to actually stretch the plaque and make it more pliable. Using a traction device is the same concept. This is also why many also take a combination of natural and prescription drugs to also make the plaque softer and more pliable.

Les

Les. Thanks for your reply That's interesting. I was reading this http://www.peyronies-disease-help.com/blog/?tag=ved the other day, written by a Dr.Herazy, and this paragraph stood out....

"The danger with a penile vacuum pump is in the overuse or abuse of such a device.  The theory behind the therapeutic use of the VED is to slowly and gently stretch the scar tissue and soften it.  That does not appear to happen, because the normal tissue does indeed stretch, but the Peyronie's disease plaque tissue does not.  As a result a man finds that he has a temporarily larger penis that is less able to reach a normal full erection – and it still has the same Peyronie's disease plaque or scar, and/or curve, he had before. "

This appears to contradict your statement, and confirm my understanding of the situation re. stretching of plaque.

What is the truth here, as it seems to me to be fairly fundamental to the efficacy of the VED for Peyronies? Is Dr. Herazy propounding a consensus view within the medical profession or just his own opinion?  

[LWillisjr]

Shrout,
I don't know anything about Dr. Herazy. It is an interesting article in that it almost contradicts most of the opinions in use on this site. Particularly his comment on the following:

From Dr. Herazy article "From my experience with countless men, my opinion is that it is simply better to avoid the temptation and pass on the Vacuum Erection Device.  It can cause a lot more problems than the small and temporary change in Peyronie's disease is worth."

From what I can tell in the article it is his professional opinion. I don't see any studies referenced. And as I said in a prior post, a VED or traction needs to be used in conjunction with natural or prescribed drugs to help soften the plaque.

All I know is that there are at least a few doctors who have published studies indicating where a combination of things including traction did produce positive results. While I respect Dr. Herazy's professional opinion, I would lean towards the results of the studies.

[Hawk]

What is the truth here, as it seems to me to be fairly fundamental to the efficacy of the VED for Peyronies? Is Dr. Herazy propounding a consensus view within the medical profession or just his own opinion?  

First we need to be clear that Dr. Herazy is  not an MD.  He is a chiropractor as opposed to a medical doctor or physician.  It bothers me a bit that he does not make that a clear point as soon as you log onto his site.

[Angus]

 
    When Dr. Herazy says "from my experience with countless men...." I would like to know why they are countless. The term is usually used as a substitute for an astronomical number that is difficult to comprehend, like stars in the sky. If he in fact has had interaction with a number of men who have had no success and trouble with the VED, I would like to know that number and I'd like to know why that number isn't published or at least readable on his web site. In this case, "countless" could mean 2,584.... or 2. Since the real number is not in print, this only adds to the speculation and wonderment element about Peyronies Disease and the never-ending search for some facts and science about this disease.
    At least this board is the one place where mens own words about their experiences with this disease can be read with a bit of assurance that what is being read is a factual account, written to the best abilities of the author.  

[ComeBacKid]

I think it would be foolish not to try out the VED, this so called doctor is way out of his field and doesn't know what he is talking about.  Even bone can be stretched out, eventually anyone using the VED will see some kind of size gain, even if it is minimal.  As for straightening I'm not convinced it will always work for everyone, as it didn't help me with straightening.

Comebackid

[jackp]

I went to a Chiropractor for many years with my back. Over the years we got to know each other pretty well.

One day we were talking about ED. He told me that the nerves to the penis are higher in the back than the L4 L5 problems I was having and that with my uro's diagnosis of Venous Leakage that he could not help me. This was later confirmed by my back surgeon and Dr. Milam.

As the ED progressively got worse he and I had another chat and I told him I was going to Nashville for my implant. He told me his dad has some of the same problems I have. The short version is he sent his dad to Dr. Milam and he also had an implant.

During the course of our visits we talked about the VED. He agreed with the principle and the exercise recommended by Old Man.

IMHO the bunk put out by Dr. Hearzy DC is just than a bunch of bunk.

Jackp

[shrout]

Interesting replies, guys. Thanks. It looks like the good Dr.Herazy and I, and several of the urolgists I have consulted are in the minority.  I'm quite willing to bow to the combined wisdom of this forum and accept that Peyronies plaque can be stretched, permanently, (which is what I'm on about - I guess nobody is disputing that it can be stretched temporarily, unless it has calcified) by use of the VED.

That being the case, is there a consensus on this forum as to which medications or treatments are best used in combination with the VED to soften the plaque and make it more pliable, as jwillisjr suggested in his post.  Or is it simply a matter of trial and error. Many thanks.    

[LWillisjr]

Dr. Levine recommends Pentox together with Verapamil injections.

Les

[casa]

Hi, I recently acquired the Vitality VED thru Fitzz on the good advice of OldMan. I know there is a lot of info on here as to what to do; however I was wondering if there is a site with a video demo somewhere on the net as it would make life a bit easier. Thanks for all the help in advance.

[pichou]

I called Augusta Medical customer service 1-800-827-8382 and they sell a DVD for $9.99

Good luck

[bassman]

Gentlemen,

When I first started the 26 VED program I was over zealous and produced a couple of red dots ( 1/8" dia. ) on the shaft of my penis and was advised by the group to back the pressure down and not be so aggressive until my penis acclimated to the exercise. I backed off and allowed the dots to heal, which they did and I started the program over with no further problems until I reached week 23. Now the bright red dots are back and there are 4 of them approx. 1/4" in dia., I figured my penis had acclimated and I could bump the pressure back up towards the end of the 26 week program to get the full benefit, I guess I was wrong ?

How long should I stop the program, if I stop until the dots completely heal should I start the program from week one and go another 26 weeks with more care of not harming myself - I hope did not harm myself ?

All comments are welcome.

Bassman

[cowboyfood]

bassman,

Please take this comment in the context that I'm not very knowledgeable about the red dots, but if you're taking a relatively high dosage of Vitamin E then that could be a factor.  

I've been using the VED for about eight or nine weeks and I have not noticed any red dots; and, I'm taking 400mg of Vitamin E daily...I think I saw others discussing this issue before, and postulated that Vitamin E could be a factor.

CF

[Hawk]

The red dots are blood drawn through capillary wall to the surface of the penis.  I do not think the penis cannot adapt to that degree of pressure with that blood chemistry.  Either your blood is thinned with vitamin E, Ginko, aspirin, Garlic, or other one of the other many blood thinners, OR your vacuum pressure is just too high.

[Old Man]

NOTE TO ALL NEW MEMBERS:

Based on the number of posts being made and private messages I receive about how to use a VED, it is obvious that the protocol topic in the Child Boards section of the main forum is not being read and/or followed.

There are two protocols listed there: One is for the three cylinder purchased medical quality VEDs and the other is for those members who have made their own VEDs by using three individual cylinder type VEDs.

Each protocol goes into detail as to how the VEDs are assembled and used. Each protocol goes into detail about the safe way to use a VED. It is absolutely necessary to follow those protocols to the letter to obtain any results. If not followed exactly, trauma or injury can and will result. Again, OVERPUMPING THE VACUUM PRESSURE can only lead to problems as has been stated by several private messages I have gotten and some posts on the main forum.

NOTE:
The "home made" VEDs are just as good as the purchased units for Peyronies Disease. Each individual who made them will know how to assemble and use them, but must follow the protocol as listed in the Child Boards topic.

PLEASE GUYS, READ THE INSTRUCTIONS before embarking on any therapy sessions with your VEDs.

Respectfully, Old Man

[bassman]

Hawk, Jackp & Old Man,

Thank you for your quick responces to my questions and concerns. Old Man sent me a PM and advised me to give myself a brake on the VED until the red marks heal hopefully no longer than two weeks and than to start back at about the 20 week spot and be VERY careful with the pressure - duly noted.

Jackp, I received you PM's and will be calling you to discuss my questions relative to the implant.

I am so fortunate to have caring people like yourselves and others on this forum - GOD bless all of you !

Bassman

[RichB]

If anyone is trying to make their own VED, Wal-Mart sells very cheap check valves in the aquarium section. Probably about 2 dollars tops. They aren't industrial quality, but I would consider that a plus due to it being gentle. Perfect for sealing a good -5 mm Hg.

[Angus]

RichB... if you work one of these valves into your VED let us know how it works out and how you got it installed. I never thought of aquarium stuff being a source of decent, low priced equipment. Good idea!