ED - Erectile Dysfunction (Started August 2005)

[Tim468]

Both the possibility of a sudden snap, and, in fact, the possible trauma of just "too tight, too long" both concern me. However, it seems one could adapt to this problem by using a not-to-tight ring and carefully easing it onto the penis. The only reason I can think of would be to use it for intercourse. Keeping a hard erection to stretch out the tissue is nice, but I see no benefit other than a slight increase in mobility (say you have to answer the front door...), over simply leaving the pump  in place.  

I am interested in whether or not the Vacerect rings could be adapted to other cylinders. I have some with a slightly flared base, and some with a flat base that would not fit it. IA am attaching pictures of the flared and flat based cylinders to make this more clear. Looking around I am noticing sveral products designed to make a better seal - I like the idea of a ring that gets on easily and stays tight enough to aid in an erection.

Tim

[Old Man]

Note to all:

There seems to be wide and varied opinions as to the use of penis rings to hold up an erection for sex. Please note that it has been stated all along that these rings are intended solely to hold up an erection for sex and are NOT TO BE USED FOR Peyronies Disease THERAPY EXERCISES. I know that there has been bad experiences of using retainer rings which for the most part IMHO has been due to improper use of them.

So, having said that, I will endeavor to put to rest some ideas that seem to cause concern among our members about using the retainer rings. First, if one needs to use "help" in holding up an erection, they must arrive at the proper tension of that ring to provide enough time to complete the sex cycle before removing them. Getting the proper ring takes a little practice putting them on and removing them. The Osbon Esteem VED that I first purchased had a video that showed how to place them on and removing them comfortably and without damage to the penis. I know that this video is not available to any and all who do not own the Esteem model, but the same principle applies to any retainer ring that is made like or similar to the Esteem rings.

Dr. Tim is right in that the design of the Osbon ring is such that it applies pressure at the right position to hold in the blood and at the same time allows for protection of the urethra and prevent damage to it. Again, experience in applying and removing them also must be gained to get the most benefit of them without further damage. There has been a problem, at least in my case, with using the application tool that comes with the Esteem model. It is designed to assist in placing the rings on the cylinder prior to their use. This can cause the rings to be torn if not lubricated well before sliding them off onto the cylinder. Also, the cylinder must be lubricated prior to using this tool or else the rings will not slide off the cylinder easily when needed.

Another thing that has to be practiced is when the ring is slid off onto the cylinder that the entire VED must be pressed firmly against the body which allows for a smoother and less irritating transfer. It takes practice and patience to get a good transfer without trauma. At this point, I must state that I have never had any trauma or pain in making the transfer of the rings. I did practice using the soft latex ring that came with original Osbon Esteem VED until it was a comfortable situation. So, as it has been said, practice make perfect applies here.

In all of my experience and that of many other guys using a VED for ED and/or Peyronies Disease, none have ever stated that they suffered any damage or trauma to their penises. Again, I agree with Dr. Tim that the design of the Osbon ring is my choice of all the retainer rings that have been tried by me and others. The Actis retainer ring, for instance in most cases, does not allow enough tension to retain an erection long enough for sexual activity. They were given to a group of guys in my area for trial and most rejected them as a viable ring for sexual activity (just our impression though).

So, the bottom line for me at least, is that one must try any and all types of retainer rings and apply usage of the one that bests suits their needs. Whereas the Obson design ring works best for me, it might not be the weapon of choice for others. My objection to the round retainer rings without outer rings is that they do not give the option of relieving the  pressure before sliding them off the shaft.

One last thought about the Osbon ring -- when removing them one must reach a finger or two into the outer loops, pull out on them until the pressure of the vacuum in the penis subsides before trying to slide the ring off the shaft. This outward pressure of the ring must be maintained the entire time while sliding them off the shaft. In addition, one must lubricate the shaft well before sliding them off too as a "dry" penis skin will not allow for easy removal.

I am sure that others have opinions as to the use and removal of retainers rings, so I welcome comments pro and con for their use.

Old Man

[Old Man]

Added note to previous post by me:

Forgot to mention that any retainer that is used on the penis must be removed after not more than a 30 minute time limit.

As the ring simply acts as a tourniquet to hole the erection up, 30 minutes is what is medically known as the longest time that blood can be "denied access" to a body part before trauma occurs.

So, be sure to remember this when using the rings for sex to prevent further damage to one of our most prized body possessions.

Old Man

[jackp]

Old Man
IMHO some try to tight of a constriction ring to start with. I know in the beginning I wanted to get it up and keep it. It took time and some different rings to figure out what was best for me. Too tight a ring will cutoff feelings and make it more difficult to ejaculate.
I use the Augusta Medical RX VED with Osborn rings. Only use rings for sex and not fibrosis therapy.
Using your pump and release method of therapy has helped me a lot. Gained back some length and penis now feels more normal.
I looked at the Vacurect that Hawk uses. Looks like a great design but can you use it for therapy only without the rings?
Jackp

[Old Man]

JackP:

You are 100% right about using the right retainer rings. That is why I try to explain every chance possible that one should work slowly, take enough time to get the right tension ring when going for erections for sex. Yes, no one should ever use a restrictor ring of any kind when doing vacuum therapy. That is a very bad NO NO. Serious damage can and will result if a restrictor ring is used during vacuum therapy.

I have no clue about using the Vacuerect VED. Hawk should be able to give you an answer on that. The Vacuerect is made a company that was formed by a former employee of the Augusta Medical Supply company and is a very good unit. However, I have never seen one, much less know enough about them to discuss their use. Have only seen them advertised on line.

Old Man

[imike24]

yeah. Everything must be on safety first.

Links deleted by administrator and member warned of a pending ban from the forum for posting spam.  

[Tim468]

mike,

Not sure I understand your comment. Is it a vehicle to get us to look at and click on all the links in your signature file?

Tim

[newguy]

I'm not linking to two in any meaningful way, but the propeciahelp website forum contains a side effects section dedicated to penile fibrosis & peyronies disease (http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=31&sid=edfe4489ab173dfb134480bf303a4a34) and threads that make you wonder if taking propecia can be unwise in terms of tipping the balance of penile health:

http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1136

http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=339

http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59

There are also tens of posts suggeting that propecia may have a rather unpredictable impact on various hormone levels.

Antony,

Your points are good ones: how could something change that fast? I don't think that this may apply to you, as it was so rapid. I think lower than average testosterone levels (or function) may be related to Peyronie's (or Peyronies-like) fibrosis in older men. It may also be a problem in younger men getting finasteride (Propecia) for hair loss.

Testosterone levels go down gradually as you age. Sometimes they drop too fast or too soon - mine did. I very much wonder if some of the "increase" in Peyronie's is related to older men now believing that they have a right to an erection. The use of Viagra has really changed things for men IMHO. Older men may have previously suffered in silence - now they are speaking up. So, the connection between Peyronie's Disease and aging (already known) and Testosterone levels will perhaps be understood better.

Instead, Antony, your problem came on so fast, it sounds more like the overwhelming fibrosis that develops after getting priapism. In that condition, there is damage done to the penile structures that leads to progressive fibrosis. That is the problem that was treated effectively with Viagra, Pentox and Arginine by Tom Lue in a case report of two men.

In that case, there was  a discreet wound that happened, followed by a wound healing process gone awry. In your case, there seems to be an on-going wound process that has not "happened", but is "happening". That may imply that there is more to come, and that therapy geared towards helping recover will be ineffective until the process has moved into the resolution phase.

It is very frustrating that the cause of your problem remains unknown, for you cannot know when it is over, or if there is anything to do to stop that process from getting worse. Obviously, if it goes very far, it will be harder to recover from no matter what you do. That is really scary for you I bet, and my heart goes out to you.

If it is helpful to recall this, remember that A) it should stop getting worse soon enough, B) anti-fibrotic therapy may help you recover, C) surgery may provide you with a way to have a satisfying and happy lovelife and sex life, D) progress in reconstructive surgery, including fashioning of new penile tissue to replace damaged tissue is on the way. It may not be this year, but during your lifem and during your active sex life, such progress will happen such that YOU can benefit from it. So, never say 'die' - there is always hope.

To Pal-31

MY best advice is to get a level measured and to discuss it with your doctor.

Tim

[George999]

ED an Indicator of Men's Health
Dysfunction could be the 'portal' to heart problems, vascular disease, type 2 diabetes, study says

"Erectile dysfunction is a portal into men's health," the study's senior author, Dr. Aksam Yassin, of the Clinic for Urology and Andrology of the Segeberger Clinics in Norderstedt, Germany, wrote in a prepared statement.

"It is becoming clear that obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, cholesterol problems and erectile difficulties are intertwined, and a common denominator is testosterone deficiency."

Everything we learn about Peyronies and ED argues for a more systemic and global approach to treatment.  - George

[zone611]

I have Peyronies and I am able to still have sex with my Girlfriend, what I was wondering since my penis is bent (down) would that prevent her from getting pregnant?

We have talked about this and I am in the process of getting a fertility test which I suspect will be normal.  She thinks that because it is bent (down) and is not totally erect that the possibility of getting pregnant is reduced.

I did talk to my doctor about this and he explained that as long as there is penetration she can still get pregnant. basically having Peyronies does not change the outcome or reduce the changes of getting her pregnant. I am able to archive a full erection (bent) and Penetrate her with no problem. Some positions are more problems then others. (can anyone offer any suggestions)?

I hope someone can help me here because I very much want to have kids and I have heard conflicting ideas on the subject. I have had Peyronies for about 10 years and only recently have decided to investigate it further.

Please Help

Zone611

   

[Tim468]

When one googles "zone611" it gives mostly hits from China. This really makes me suspect this is spam - though it appears to be genuine in terms of wording and not advertising anything.

Perhaps someone from China had to erase his "trail" and will come back to read here, but for some reason does not want to  remain registered.

Tim

[Hawk]

Zone 911 registered, made multiple posts then deleted his registratin
Registration is a requirement for posting.  This user deleted his registration. That coupled with the Google hits, the duplicate posts, and the unusual nature of the question, are cause for deleting the posts.  If Zone611 was a sincere person looking for help, hopefully he will return and register.

I remind all readers that we take GREAT pains here to protect privacy and registration does not reveal a person's true identity.

[Tim468]

New article...

Long-Term Safety and Efficacy of Tadalafil 5 mg Dosed Once Daily in Men with Erectile Dysfunction.Porst H, Rajfer J, Casabé A, Feldman R, Ralph D, Vieiralves LF, Esler A, Wolka AM, Klise SR.
Private practice of Urology and Andrology, Hamburg, Germany.

Introduction. With once-daily administration of tadalafil, dosing and sexual activity would no longer need to be temporally linked for patients with erectile dysfunction (ED). Aim. To evaluate long-term safety and efficacy of tadalafil 5 mg dosed once daily for the treatment of ED. Methods. Patients >/=18 years of age with ED of any functional severity or etiology received tadalafil 5 mg once daily for 1 (N = 234) or 2 (N = 238) years during the open-label extensions of two previously reported studies. Patients who completed the 1-year open-label extension concluded with a 4-week ED treatment-free period. Baseline was defined as prior to receiving any study drug. Main Outcome Measures. Safety measures included adverse events, electrocardiograms, and clinical laboratory measures. Efficacy measures included the International Index of Erectile Function (IIEF)-Erectile Function (-EF), -Intercourse Satisfaction (-IS), and -Overall Satisfaction (-OS) domain scores, and the Global Assessment Questions (GAQ1: improved erections; GAQ2: improved ability to engage in sexual activity). Results. Overall, 208/234 (88.9%) and 139/238 (58.4%) patients completed the 1- and 2-year open-label extensions, respectively. No study drug-related serious adverse events were observed. Treatment-emergent adverse events observed in >/=5% of the patients during the first year of either open-label extension were dyspepsia, headache, back pain, and influenza. No clinically meaningful abnormalities associated with tadalafil were observed for electrocardiograms or clinical laboratory measures. Mean IIEF domain scores improved from baseline to the conclusions of the 1- and 2-year open-label extensions, respectively: -EF, +10.4 and +10.8; -IS, +4.0 and +3.7; and -OS, +3.0 and +3.2. At the conclusion of the 2-year open-label extension, 95.7% and 92.1% of the patients reported positive responses to GAQ1 and GAQ2, respectively. Conclusions. In these long-term, open-label, once-daily dosing studies, tadalafil 5 mg was well tolerated and effective, making it a viable alternative to the current on-demand dosing of tadalafil for men with ED.

[nemo]

Good info, Tim, thanks for posting.  

I haven't been on the forum for a while, so I just thought I'd drop by and post an update on how I'm doing.  Back in January, I thought I might have started a new bout of Peyronies Disease, and was freaking out.  Concurrently, I'd also been having issues with what I thought was the diminishing effectiveness of Viagra, which I'd been using for only a few months.

At the risk of jinxing myself, I think I'm doing pretty good these days.

As it stands, I'm tentatively, cautiously going to say I don't think it's Peyronies Disease that has been causing the sensations I've been having in the penis the last few months.  I did a phone consult with Dr. Levine, and he said he thought it might actually be my prostate, since I'd developed a prostate infection just a month before I started having weird sensations in the penis.  I thought the prostate infection had resolved, but I suspect it's possible that it hasn't resolved completely, or has moved around, as I now sometimes get the feeling in the testicles, sometimes in the penis, sometimes not a all - but it's never in two places at once, it just moves around, so I have to believe there are nerves involved, as opposed to a Peyronies Disease like injury.  Thankfully, I'm proud to say after six months, there has been no bending or palpable plaque formation, so I'm guardedly hopeful it wasn't a Peyronies Disease flare-up.  

The really good news, however, is that this whole situation did produce something really positive - I no longer am taking Viagra or Levitra.  For the last few years, I'd noticed I'd completely stopped having nocturnal erections.  I had my uro test my Testosterone and it was indeed low (237 once and 435 another time), which for a 36 year old seemed pretty low.  Nevertheless, I couldn't get my uro to care - he just didn't care about NTEs and said use the Viagra if you need it.  

However, when all this panic about Peyronies Disease started in January, I started taking L-Arginine (vasoflow), Acetyl l-Carnitine, Propionyl l Carnitine, Zinc, and Pentox (once a day).  I firmly believe the combination of these really is affecting me in a positive way.  For one thing, I get nocturnal erections frequently now.  I'll sometimes pop an erection just from being around my girl or talking to her on the phone, and when we are going to have sex, it just happens naturally now.  I haven't taken a Viagra in almost 5 months, and am really happy about that.  The return of nocturnals tells me the combo of supplements I'm taking is replacing something my body is not doing naturally anymore, and I think it's probably related to the testosterone issue.  However, as long as the supps are working, I'm not going to pursue the T replacement, as it carries certain risks itself.  But that is an option in  the future.

I just wanted to update my case.  I stopped frequenting the board so much as it just kept me in a perpetual state of anxiety and when I started to feel like it wasn't Peyronies Disease after all, I didn't want to keep thinking about Peyronies Disease, as I'm sure you can understand.  I don't feel 100-percent normal yet, but I definitely feel that the supps I discovered on this board are helping my ED issues tremendously.  Thank you all for your support and advice along the way.

Nemo

[Tim468]

Good news Nemo!

I remember a teacher of mine talking about a patient I was very confused about. He said "He falls into the "I don't know what it is but it got better" category". Docs like it when that happens! So do patients.

But it sounds like you have learned a bit about your own health and the value of taking charge of it. Do you think that taking positive steps (like avoiding the boards to reduce stress) contributed to your return of improved "penile health"? (there has to be a better term than that!)

Tim

[nemo]

Tim, honestly, I think it was a combination of time and the supplements that made me feel better.  Frankly, my erectile function started improving while I was still very uptight about everything.  I started hitting the supps religiously trying to minimize any Peyronies Disease damage that might be underway, and after a few days, I started waking up at night with erections.  Then, I stopped using Viagra because I realized I wasn't needing it anymore.  I know with erectile performance, there's always a question of what's mental and what's physical.  But seriously, I NEVER got nocturnals for the last 4-5 years.  Then, suddenly, with the supps, I was getting them pretty often.  It wasn't even something I was thinking about.  I'd go visit my girl in her office and work, sit down and start getting an erection.  That was like I used to be back in the good old days before I ever used Viagra.  

After a few months went by like that, I think my anxiety gradually started to fade.  So, while I see where you're going that the mental affected the physical, in my case, I really think the improvement in my erectile quality is what helped me mentally.  Either way, I'm not going to keep questioning it - I'm just trying to enjoy the here and now and keep taking my cocktail of supplements!  

Nemo

[Tim468]

Nemo, thanks for your thoughtful response. The way that you laid it out makes perfect sense.

Tim

[George999]

Tim,  I can certainly relate to what Nemo is saying here.  I have had much the same experience in this regard.  My libido has simply gotten better and better, and even though I have now discontinued most of the sups I was previously taking, the enhanced libido remains intact. Although I have not taken Pentox, my suspicion is that Pentox would only serve to enhance this effect.  - George

[nemo]

George, I do think the Pentox is a key element.  My understanding is that in the days before Viagra, Pentox (or Trental) had some limited use as a treatment for ED.  Unfortunately, my uro punked out on me and wouldn't even refill the prescription he gave me for Pentox one-per-day ... frankly, I think he got offended that I knew more about current treatment options than he did and decided to "revoke" the Pentox altogether.  He said if I want to pursue that, I need to go see Dr. Lue.  

So, sadly, I've been acquiring my Trental from an online, foreign pharmacy for the last few months.  Seems to be legit as far as I can tell.  Would I rather have a presciption from an American doctor - absolutely.  But I'm not interested in doctor shopping just to get the prescription and run into who knows how many more closed minds in the process.  For now, I'll just keep getting it any way I can.  

But I do think it helps my erectile quality by improving blood flow into the penis, and I only take one per day (along with my supplements).

Nemo

[Kennyflav]

Does anyone buy medicines for http://www.genericviagra.org - wonder of the purchase.
They have very cheap viagra and many people praise it.

[Tim468]

No clue. It has a slick looking website but a clever 15 year old computer geek can give you that. Generic Viagra means "not honoring patent law" viagra. In India, the patnet laws are interpreted differently, such that a patent is honored only if the manufacturing process is unique. By phrasing their law this way they have been able to get away (so far) with marketing generics before patnets run out in Europe or the US. Selling such drugs is a violation of patent law - I am not sure what the law says about buying them.

Tim

[LWillisjr]

Rydf,

The doctors will use a pretty common tool called a protractor. It's basically a half circle with angle measurements marksing on it. It isn't that difficult to use and or estimate.

[Tim468]

Measuring an angle is easy. Translating a curve into a degree of angle is harder.

I would start with whatever direction your penis sticks out from your body when it is erect. For the sake of discussion, let us say it sticks straight out. I would then look at what direction the end is pointing Is it facing 30 degrees down? 45 degrees down?

You may have to estimate.

More important... you do not "need" surgery if you are able to have sex. Surgery should be reserved for a penis that cannot function - everything else is worth trying to fix medically. The one exception to that rule might be a very good functioning penis with a fixed angle, that is stable for over (perhaps) 2 years - then one might consider a surgery to fix it.

rydf - if you were born this way then there is not much that will be helpful. If you developed this problem then - yes - start using the VED or traction device.

Read more here to learn.

Tim

[kennethgilbert]

He dude...I'm suffering from Ed issue. I want to take some medication like cialis or levitra. Should I consult with a doctor? I found some information about levitra perceptions at (link disabled) http://www.xxxxxxx-xxxxx.com/ xxxxxx_xxxxxxxxxxxx.html is this enough?

[Old Man]

kennethgilbert:

First, let me say that we are not doctors here. You should see a qualified professional to determine that you are confirmed to have ED. Sometimes, the body adjusts itself in the sexual department by slowing down the libido for various reasons. I am saying this to let you know that you should make sure of your condition before rushing off to treat it. The ED drugs in most cases have side effects that may or may not apply to you personal situation. Only a qualified doctor should help you make that determination.

Taking drugs without knowing the full facts about them can and will cause side effects you really don't need. So, go see a doctor.

Old Man

[mr.gregoryrauscher]

Erectile dysfunction is one of the most well known sexual dysfunctions affecting men. The main reason for this is that it is the most common. However, there are certain other diseases like Peyronie's disease and priapism that are also common in men and they also hamper in having proper sexual intercourse. The bottom line is that one should never assume about these diseases and have medications on their own. It is imperative to consult a doctor if any abnormality is noticed in having sex, or in attaining erection. http:///www.levitraxxxx.com

Link deleted by administrator and member banned for violating strict forum rules on spamming and embedding a commercial link to a Levitra internet sales site.
Administrator

[Hawk]

mr.gregoryrauscher, I would welcome you as a new member, but since you are banned for spamming this forum with commercial links you won't be able to read the post.  

This new member was clearly an Asian based spam account.  

[Tim468]

Gee Hawk - that's kinda harsh. If I lived in Asia and ate SPAM all day, I'd probably have ED too!

Tim

[young25]

Hi,

I am new to this forum, but have been a regular reader. I am 25 years old and think I have peyronie's/fibrosis. I have two cord like rings on my shaft which are not hard and cant be felt in flaccid state,  apart from this I have some guitar like strings.The Doppler which I underwent didnt show peyronie's/fibrosis but venous leak( which I believe could be a factor as cant mainatiain erection and to achieve one is also hardwork).I am Indian by origin and had this diagnosis done in March this year in India, currently have moved to US for short time on Work. Had been to various Urologist but none had a soultion, though one offered penile ligtation surgery. I have been suffering for last 2 years and wondering why at such a young age it has happened to me. I am currently taking Pentox+L-Argnine+Acetly carrtnine+Tribulus all once a day for past one month. I can't see any difference to my misery. My life is totally ruined would be an understatement. I will appreciate any kind of help on this matter as I am slowly and slowly dying within..

Cursed for life!!


PS: Forgot to mention I have slight curvature on left side both when flaccid as well as erect

[newguy]

Hi,

I am new to this forum, but have been a regular reader. I am 25 years old and think I have peyronie's/fibrosis. I have two cord like rings on my shaft which are not hard and cant be felt in flaccid state,  apart from this I have some guitar like strings.The Doppler which I underwent didnt show peyronie's/fibrosis but venous leak( which I believe could be a factor as cant mainatiain erection and to achieve one is also hardwork).

Maybe viagra could be of use to you to help you gain erections. Use of the VED could prove useful too. Have you tried either of these?

[Tim468]

Dear Young25,

The VED may not be what you had in mind when you lay in bed as a teenager fantasizing about your future sex life (it sure was not my fantasy), but it may in fact help you to develop more confidence regarding your ability to marry, have sex and kids etc. It also - plain and simple - works.

Viagra or Cialis on a daily basis may also help you. Furthermore, you should get a complete workup including testosterone levels.

Tim

[nemo]

Tim, I saw on another thread that you were using C every day, which I also see is part of their new marketing campaign, that low dose every day might be just the ticket.

I have had this enduring fear that using V,C or L frequently will lead to a situation where it becomes less effective over time, or even ineffective.  I could never find clear cut research either way on this, as the only studies I saw spanned 2 years, and these drugs have actually been out for 10 now.  

For instance, in my case, at 37, I'm trying very hard to avoid using these drugs anymore (I did use them for a while) because if I start, I'm looking at 30 years of using them.  That has always worried me.

As a doctor, and a daily user, what are your thoughts on this?  

Nemo

[Tim468]

I am not worried about building a tolerance. When someone is getting worse, and something else makes it better, it is hard to tell the difference between "tolerance" (ie needing more drug) and "worsening" (ie the drug no longer works because the problem it is treating is getting worse).

So I started daily Cialis to increase NO supply, although better erections is a nice side effect.

Tim

[young25]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions,

Newguy,

I hav not tried viagra, but have tried cialis which works ok, not something great but manageable...  

I think my venous leakage is more related to smooth muscles contration which becoz of some kind of peyronie's is not helping me to expand and dosnt allow venous pathway to clsoe. I had a nodule since when I was around 21, it didnt bother me much back then neither did it affect my erections,  its just last year that things started going downhill. I guess the shot for penile doppler just aggravated the problem and left me with another nodule... To add to the misery the doctor gave me a antidote shot also which I think worsened the problem as after that I started expericing hard flaccid penis.  I am right now on different supplements and as suggested will be adding Cialis to my schedule just to keep my erectile tissue healthy..  VED I have yet not tried, but m seriously considering it....

I wanted to ask whether antidote shots(to counter the effects ofPapervine) are harmful and has anybody experienced the same kind of after effects. Also can the damage caused by the shot reversed?  

[George999]

Could Chinese Herb Be a Natural Viagra?

FRIDAY, Oct. 3 (HealthDay News) -- A Chinese herbal remedy known as "horny goat weed" may indeed live up to its name as a natural version of Viagra.

Italian researchers report that laboratory studies show that the compound has the potential to treat erectile dysfunction, and possibly with fewer side effects than its pharmaceutical cousin.

- George

[Hitman]

you need a very potent HGW extract though. 10% and even 20% won't cut it. I think there is a 50% extract somewhere out there.

[Tim468]

I disagree Hitman. You can make up for a lack of potency by taking more. I would take between 10-20 HGW (with 500 mg per two capsules) to get an effect equivalent to 50 mg of Viagra.

I did not suffer any side effects, and the effect was not as obvious (erection-wise) as Viagra, but it was still a good effect. I finally settled on Cialis as a better alternative as it did not cause the side effects of Viagra and was easier (and ultimately cheaper) to take.

Tim

[jackisback]

I guess the shot for penile doppler just aggravated the problem and left me with another nodule... To add to the misery the doctor gave me a antidote shot also which I think worsened the problem as after that I started expericing hard flaccid penis.  

Does anyone have an opinion on this as a general risk for Pey sufferers? I have heard many claim their problem was made worse by regular injections for ED or by Verapamil injections, but this is the first I've heard about the one-time injection for the doppler. I had always thought of this shot as being relatively low risk.  

[jackp]

jackisback
In my case shots for ED made things worse and caused corporal fibrosis.
My problems started with low testesterone and in 1995 peyronies with penile shortening, venous leakage and corporal fibrosis from ED shots.
I had no reaction to the shot for the Doppler, doctor gave me a pamphlet on injection therapy that said it was not FDA approved and then offered trimix. I started trimix, then PGE1 (Edex). I never had an erection from shots even though I tried for about a year upping the dosage of trimix to the max.
My advice if you have peyronies do not use shots for ED. I am in the % that made things worse.
I have had good results with the VED using Old Man's advice and am now waiting until 10/30 for an implant.
Also find an Male Sexual Function Specialist. Most general practice urologist are not specialist in this area and only do a few a month. You want a doctor that treats at least 100 a year.
Jackp

[Hitman]

did u get treated for low test jack?

[jackp]

Hitman
Yes I have been on TRT for years. Urologist did not do a good job of keeping my level up they only wanted to give me shots of 300mg every three weeks. That was not enough and my blood levels always reported low.
Last October I was talking to my Primary Care Physic an (PCP) about my problem of not getting my T levels up. He took a blood sample and sure enough my level after 3 weeks was 120 with a range of 248-850. He started me on 300mg every 10 days and it helped.
Last may my blood test was 426 with a range of 250-1100 he wanted my level higher and so did I. I know get 400mg every 10 days and what a difference it has made. I do not think I would have had the strength to survive the 9-10 day stay in the hospital last July with low T levels.
TRT is not a treatment for ED. You may get a temporary boost but it will not last (normal).
When you get a blood test for T always request a copy of the results. If you are not in the upper 20-30% range and the doctor will not boost your shots, find another doctor.
Jackp

[Hitman]

so has it improved your libido? or has it improved any other aspects?

I'm going for an MRI scan next week because my over the range prolactin levels.

[Old Man]

Note to all:

If you are using any ED drug, please read the patient pamphlet that comes with the RX or OTC type. There are side effects that in some cases list that if the user has Peyronies Disease that the drug should not be taken.

I know that is especially true of the urethral injection called MUSE. It has a strict prohibition of using MUSE if Peyronies Disease is present. My uro RXd MUSE for me and it did not work our at all. The side effects which includes burning of the penis, were so severe that no one had to tell me to stop using the stuff.

This is just how ED drugs affected me and due to the cautions I was advised to be extremely careful to read the literature that comes with an RX.

I know that some on the forum are using Viagra in a low dose to enhance the effects of better blood flow, so be careful to observe your condition for any side effects that are detrimental to Peyronies Disease.

Old Man

[jackp]

hitman
TRT has a lot of benefits including increased libido, weight control, loss of stomach fat, better muscel mass and the mental effects are great.
In my case it did not help ED, from the way I understand it TRT will not effect ED except when you first start and that soon fades and is normal.
Lots of luck with your MRI. Keep us posted.
Old Man
I agree 100% about caution using ED drugs. I was on Viagra within a week after it was available. Was little to no help. The only caution my then uro said was watch for erections lasting over 4 hours (I Wish).
The only other caution is shots for ED. PGE1 (Edex) and trimix will cause corporal fibrosis and make matters worse. This is one thing that caused the doctor to puncture my urethra 10/07 during implant surgery. I am 100% against shots in the penis for ED. I tried it with little to no effect and only made matters worse.
Jackp

[Tim468]

Jackp,

TRT does not wear off, but it does not help everyone either. Interestingly, there are some who do not get better on just one (Viagra or TRT) but do get better on both.

Tim

[Hitman]

interesting Tim. is there any reason why?

[nemo]

Jack, a couple things I've discovered from exhaustive reading about TRT is that: a) many doctors won't touch it with a ten foot pole, and b) some of the doctors who will don't really know what they're doing.  For instance, many docs who will try TRT just inject T or prescribe the gel or patch.  Often, exactly as you desribe, it boosts libido for a couple months, then you crash.  The reason for this is that often, the doctor doesn't even test for estradiol (E2) (part of the estrogen family, which men have too).  The balance between E2 and T is as important as the Total T.  In fact, you could have high T, but if your E2 is high as well, you going to have all sorts of problems, including ED.  You can't just look at T.

What's key to understand here is that if you start taking T, your testicles will often stop producing T on their own and even shrink ... so yes, you get an initial boost, then the testicles shut down and you start to drop T level.  If your body is also converting T to estadiol (through the aromataze enzyme), your doubly screwed.  Many hormone specialists are prescribing HCG injections to actually keep the testicles active and producing during TRT.  They also often prescibe anti-estrogens like Arimidex to keep estradiol down so T can rise to where it needs to be and stay there, and not compete with E2.

So, I think it's incorrect to say that it's normal for libido to diminish after a little while on TRT.  While this may happen often, I think it's because of a lack of awareness on the part of the doctor about the delicate balance of hormones ... simply slapping on or injecting T is not the answer.  

If TRT is done right, monitoring estradiol and all the other aspects to keep things in balance, libido should remain strong.  Bottom line, in my humble opinion, is look at your test results.  If your doctor is not testing for estradiol, you should probably seek out someone with more expertice in TRT, because you're probably not getting the full benifit.

Nemo

[jackp]

Nemo
Maybe I was not clear TRT will not cure ED, You may get a temporary boost with ED but it will not last. Libido will stay as long as you properly manage TRT.
E2 is very important. I have mine checked everytime my doctor does blood work. Last time it was 24 and within the target range of 20-30.
I have been on TRT over 10 years, gels, patches, shots, and have noticed very little shrinkage of the testicles and check them often.
Again TRT is not a treatment for ED. The benefits are much more important than that.
Tim
I have tried everything out there for ED and some things that are not legal. No combination works for me. I started out with low T, peyronies w/penile shortening, venous leakage and corporal fibrosis.
Because of the strength TRT gives I was able to come through back surgery 1/08 and 9-10 days in the hospital (7/27/08) where the doctors messed up, collapsed my left lung and put me heart into A-Fib.
My regular doctor does a much better job of monitoring my T and checking my E2 that any of the 3 urologist I have been to. I would have to fight with uro's to get E2 checked and some refused. Uro's would only give me shots every 3 weeks and PCP gives them to me every 10 days. Getting shots every 10 days keeps me from crashing like I did on every 3 weeks.
I would like to take a moment and tell Old Man how much I appreciate his advice and knowledge. I was using the VED all wrong. By following his advice of exercise I have gained about 1/2inch lost to peyronies in 1995. Without his advice I would not be able to have sex.
Yes I hate constriction rings! They cut off a lot of feelings because of the bad venous leakage I have to use the real tight ones (Osborn D). On the bright side I can still have sex with my wife of 40 years. One of the major reasons I am going for a penile implant is the @#$% constriction rings.
Good Luck every one. Peyronies and the effects on the penis can be mentally challenging but NEVER-EVER, NEVER-EVER, NEVER EVER give up or stop trying.
Jackp

[Hawk]

I wrote about that I am constantly having wet dreams (erections and ejaculating during my dreams).

Alcohen, I am sure you are awoken by your wet dreams at the point of orgasm.  So, then you do get erections when you have wet dreams?  This would clearly indicate that nothing blocks the blood flow to your penis and that your penile tissue is fully capable of an erection.  This pretty much means the lack of erection at other times has to be limited to either psychological issues or to possible nerve issues that transmit signals to the penile arteries that make the walls relax (dilate) causing in increase in blood flow into the penis.  At least some sleeping erections are are strongly thought to use different nerve pathways that stimulated erections.  The question is whether an erection from an erotic dream is truly a sleeping or nocturnal erection.  It could be a sexually stimulated erection caused by psychological stimulation

[George999]

Hawk,  The big issue here in my mind is the perceived lack of feeling.  That IS a problem and it is NOT likely to be psychological.  Certainly the rest of his problem IS psychological.  BUT, it is easy to understand his having this problem in the light of loss of sensation.  I really think the first thing he needs to get checked out is WHY is there this loss of sensation.  This is NOT typical of Peyronies and, in fact, not typical at ALL, rather extremely rare.  He needs to find a referral to some expert in this field, probably in the realm of sexual medicine.  - George