ORAL TREATMENTS - GENERAL - Vitamins, Prescriptions , Herbs, Supplements

[YoungOne]

what dosage do you take on the curcumin?

[slowandsteady]

what dosage do you take on the curcumin?

I take two caps after breakfast and two after supper, opened and mixed into coconut oil.

[slowandsteady]

The paper In vitro anti-fibrotic activities of herbal compounds and herbs applied assays "to examine the anti-fibrotic activities of 21 compounds isolated from plants used in Chinese medicine and methanol extracts of 12 Chinese herbs" (PMID 19474275).

Results. Three flavonoids (quercetin, baicalein and baicalin) and two non-flavonoids (salvianolic acid B and emodin) demonstrated anti-fibrotic activities in both total collagen accumulation and nodule formation assays. The remaining 16 compounds had little anti-fibrotic effect or were cytotoxic. The anti-fibrotic compounds suppressed collagen I expression at both mRNA and protein levels and also variably suppressed -smooth muscle actin expression and bromodeoxyuridine incorporation. Methanol extracts of Scutellaria baicalensis Georgi, Salvia miltiorrhiza Bunge and Rheum palmatum L., which are rich sources of baicalein, baicalin, salvianolic acid B and emodin, respectively, also showed in vitro anti-fibrotic activities.

...

As shown in Table 1, quercetin, baicalin, baicalein, salvianolic acid B (SAB) and emodin showed in vitro anti-fibrotic activities. Among these compounds, quercetin, baicalin and baicalein showed similar in vitro efficacy, suppressing total collagen deposition at concentrations ranging from 5 µM to 80 µM, with relatively low cytotoxicity (Figure 1A–L, respectively). SAB was more potent, demonstrating in vitro anti-fibrotic efficacy at concentrations as low as 1.75–14 µM, with little cytotoxicity (Figure 2A–D). Emodin showed a strong anti-fibrotic effect at concentrations around 20 µM, which were very close to concentrations that induced cell detachment, suggestive of cytotoxicity (Figure 2E–H). Interestingly, the three compounds that showed concentration-dependent in vitro anti-fibrotic efficacy share the same molecular core and belong to the family of flavonoids (Figure 1, Table 2). Both non-flavonoids showed poor dose dependence, but differed from each other in their range of non-toxic effective concentrations. SAB had a moderate efficacy but a wider effective concentration range (Figure 2A–D), while emodin was characterized by a potent anti-fibrotic effect observed at concentrations close to a toxic range (Figure 2E–H).

The New Chapter Chinese skullcap product contains both baicalein and baicalin. Their Zyflamend product contains emodin from Polyganum cuspidatum (from which resveratrol is most often derived). Doctor's Best has a quercetin/bromelain product. Planetary Herbals has a Salvia product.

s&s

[newguy]

slowandsteady - Thanks for the valuable post. I'm pleased that we are concentrating on untried (in peyronies anyway) anti fibrotic treatments. What is your entire supplement regimen at this time? Do you think that all of these treatments effectively combine to work against peyronies via many different mechanism? I wonder if the dosages are sufficient. What are your thoughts?

[slowandsteady]

Things seem to be going well with my current program. Inflammation has been greatly reduced for me lately (nice not to be in pain), and plaque sizes seem to be shrinking. My routine has only been in its current form for a few weeks now, so I'm looking forward to any curvature changes.

My Peyronies Disease related supplements

Before breakfast
1 tablet Jarrow NAC sustain
100mg pycnogenol with 2g l-arginine

Breakfast
2 LEF biocurcumim mixed in oil
B vitamins
500mg of 99% transresveratrol mixed with soy lecithin

Supper
2 LEF biocurcumim mixed in oil
oil soluble vitamins

• vitamin A from fermented cod liver oil
• vitamin K from high vitamin butter oil
• vitamin D, 7500 IU
• a full spectrum vitamin E

ALC was causing inflammation for me so I'm taking a break. I'm also taking a break from DMSO since the above list is working so well.

I can feel the improved blood flow with the pycnogenol/arginine combo in my penis, a bit like the sensation you get when a wound heals.

s&s

Edit: I forgot the resveratrol; removed afternoon NAC
Edit2: My regimen changes frequently

[newguy]

It's not a world away from my program, though I'm currently also taking Resveratrol and Astragaloside IV (and pentox and occasional viagra). I've only been taking Res and Astra for a week or so though.

I'm thinking of giving the anti-fibrotic compounds you mentioned earlier a try too. Hopefully in combination this program will have a positive effect. If I come to the conclusion that it doesn't add to the current program I'll drop them, but a month or two trial can't hurt.

[newguy]

For those taking Curcumim, I'm sure that mixing it with oil (such as coconut oil), increases its bioavailability somewhat, but you do think adding black pepper to the mix would increase it yet further? There seems to be an indication from some quarters that this could be the case. The downside being that, due to its effects on drug metabolism, it may interfere with certain medications.

Piperine appears to be something of a doube edged sword: http://www.delano.com/Articles/piperine-multiplies.html

[slowandsteady]

See this post from grouppekurosawa.com, where they use curcumin in their cancer and cystic fibrosis protocols:

Curcumin is a true treatment for cystic fibrosis, but ONLY if its bioavailability can be increased.
Dissolving curcumin is warm coconut milk, heavy cream or 1/2 and 1/2 should tremendously increases the uptake of curcumin into the lymphatic system.

And in a post about using curcumin against pancreatic cancer:

First, there is inflammation, typified by the release of a host of pro-inflammatory hormones, followed by the release of collagen, resulting in fibrosis. Cancer makes its appearance only much later. [...] Unfortunately, if the injury is prolonged, chronic stellate cell activation leads to excessive pro-inflammatory hormone, and collagen release resulting in inflammation and fibrosis. [...]  In order for liver or pancreatic tissues to regain function, the debris associated with inflammation, fibrosis and cancer MUST be removed.

Curcumin turns off overactive stellate cells and helps remove fibrosis debris in pancreatic cancer. To what extent these processes are similar with the fibrosis in Peyronies Disease I don't know, but it's something to think about. They use dosages of 3g or more with coconut milk (I've seen 5g twice daily for some things).

[newguy]

Some interesting curcumin bioavailability thoughts here:

The cells lining the human small intestine contain several types of enzymes that convert curcumin into relatively inactive substances:

1.UGT (UDP-glucuronosyltransferase) enzymes;
2.sulfotransferase enzymes;
3.alcohol dehydrogenase;
4.p450 enzymes.
These same enzymes are also found in the liver and other tissues.

Among the available substances that inhibit these enzymes are:

1.Piperine (extracted from black pepper) inhibits UGT enzymes and p450 enzymes;
2.Quercetin (extracted from various plants) inhibits sulfotransferase enzymes;
3.Genistein (extracted from soy) inhibits alcohol dehydrogenase

http://www.delano.com/ReferenceArticles/curcumin-enhancement.html

Curcumin's full pharmacological potential is limited owing to its extremely limited water solubility. We report here that the water solubility of curcumin could be increased from 0.6 μg/ml to 7.4 μg/ml (12-fold increase) by the use of heat. Spectrophotometric (400–700 nm) and mass spectrometric profiling of the heat-extracted curcumin displays no significant heat-mediated disintegration of curcumin. Using an enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay that employed HNE modification of solid-phase antigen, we found that the heat-solubilized curcumin inhibited HNE-protein modification by 80%. Thus, inhibition of HNE modification may be a mechanism by which curcumin exerts its effect. We also report a simple assay to detect curcumin spectrophotometrically.

- http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/adt.2007.064

[slowandsteady]

Thanks for those links. I'm off on vacation for the next week. During that time I'm going to try Chinese skullcap and quercetin to improve the bioavailability of curcumin. I'm increasing curcumin to 2g/day, taken with warm coconut milk.

s&s

[RichB]

I'd just like to mention, due to some recent troubles I have been having, please take care NOT to self medicate when using Ibuprofen and Vitamin E.

Essentially, taking large doses of each is a bad idea, especially at the same time. Your heart is a million times more important than your penis. Taking large doses of these drugs without professional supervision can damage it.

[newguy]

I'd just like to mention, due to some recent troubles I have been having, please take care NOT to self medicate when using Ibuprofen and Vitamin E.

Essentially, taking large doses of each is a bad idea, especially at the same time. Your heart is a million times more important than your penis. Taking large doses of these drugs without professional supervision can damage it.

From the studies I have posted previously, I really don't think taking oral Ibuprofen is preferable to topical. This has been confirmed for knee injuries and as such when I hear about people taking oral ibuprofen for a year plus, as has happened before, I really think that's a bad idea, and not particulalrly healthy. What kind of vitamin E doses did you take?

[newguy]

Breakers of advanced glycation endproducts

Abstract:

Advanced glycation endproducts (AGEs) have been implicated in the pathogenesis of a variety of debilitating diseases such as diabetes, atherosclerosis, Alzheimer's and rheumatoid arthritis, as well as in the normal aging process. Seven compounds are here reported to be active in breaking AGE-protein cross-links. These compounds are 1,4-benzene-bis[4-methyleneaminophenoxyisobutyric acid] (LR102); 4-[(3,5-dichlorophenylureidophenoxyisobutyryl]-4-aminobenzoic acid (LR99); L-bis-[4-(4-chlorobenzamidophenoxyisobutyryl)cystine] (LR20); 4-(3,5-dichlorophenylureido)phenoxyisobutyryl-1-amidocyclohexane-1-carboxylic acid (LR23); methylene bis [4,4′-(2-chlorophenylureidophenoxyisobutyric acid)] (LR90); 5-aminosalicylic acid (5-ASA); and metformin. These compounds may be used to reverse the debilitating effects of those diseases in which AGEs are formed.

-
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6787566.html

There are a few mentions on the page and it is called a "moderate AGE-breaker". I wonder if there's much evidence out there to support this claim...

[RichB]

I'd just like to mention, due to some recent troubles I have been having, please take care NOT to self medicate when using Ibuprofen and Vitamin E.

Essentially, taking large doses of each is a bad idea, especially at the same time. Your heart is a million times more important than your penis. Taking large doses of these drugs without professional supervision can damage it.

From the studies I have posted previously, I really don't think taking oral Ibuprofen is preferable to topical. This has been confirmed for knee injuries and as such when I hear about people taking oral ibuprofen for a year plus, as has happened before, I really think that's a bad idea, and not particulalrly healthy. What kind of vitamin E doses did you take?

I remember specifically taking at least 3 a day (with food) for a week or two and due to me feeling very horrible I stopped. I also took at least the maximum dosage of ibuprofen per day every 2 or so days. I was never on a strict regime, I kind of just took it on and off for psychological purposes. Even though I might have taken too much at points I do think that it helped me in the long run when I took the recommended dosage during times of heightened inflammation.

[newguy]

Rich - Yes, I'm sure it helps to some extent. If you feel the need to continue using it, I'd recommend giving the topical version a go.

[George999]

Personally, I have just never felt comfortable with any of these over the counter pain and/or inflammation medications.  Just look at all the controversy right now over Tylenol problems.  I tend to think that aspirin is the safest of the lot and even it has issues.  That is why I usually opt for something like Mangosteen juice instead, but that would not work for someone who is very limited as to sugars.  As all of you know, I also have a problem with the sugar problem, but when faced with a choice, I take a bit of Mangosteen juice as opposed to an over the counter solution.  There is also a book around that has been mentioned previously on this forum regarding food and inflammation.  In fact there are several very good titles out these.  Diet can help control inflammation probably as much as over the counter pills and it is less likely to cause side effects.  - George

[Old Man]

RichB:

Your inbox is full, so you should review the inbound PMs and delete enough so that you can receive more. Could not send an answer to the last one received from you. Thanks.

Old Man

[RichB]

Alrighty inbox cleared up, my apologies

[Jamesv]

I am just trying to post here.I am new.

[George999]

Continuing the conversation on curcumin ...

Vitamin D, Curcumin May Help Clear Amyloid Plaques Found In Alzheimer's Disease

ScienceDaily (July 16, 2009) — UCLA scientists and colleagues from UC Riverside and the Human BioMolecular Research Institute have found that a form of vitamin D, together with a chemical found in turmeric spice called curcumin, may help stimulate the immune system to clear the brain of amyloid beta, which forms the plaques considered the hallmark of Alzheimer's disease.

Researchers found that naturally occurring curcumin was not readily absorbed, that it tended to break down quickly before it could be utilized and that its potency level was low, making it less effective than the new synthetic curcuminoids.

"We think some of the novel synthetic compounds will get around the shortcomings of curcumin and improve the therapeutic efficacy," Cashman said.

"Since vitamin D and curcumin work differently with the immune system, we may find that a combination of the two or each used alone may be more effective — depending on the individual patient," he said.

[George999]

Welcome James!  - George

[newguy]

Thanks very much for the curcumin update George. It adds to the body of evidence suggesting that it's at least worth us sticking with it and seeing where it takes us. It's a shame we don't have access to versions with greater bioavailability but we at least have methods at our disposal geared towards increasing its effectiveness. Let's face it, if we sit on our laurels it will likely be a long time until substances such as this start appearing in peyronie's research (well 1 year +), so there's a good argument for being on the front line. It's especially interesting to see it mentioned alongside vitamin D.

[Hawk]

Just a note to say that I think we cause a lot of confusion and false impressions when we use the word plaque.  I am often guilty of this although I try to use the term scar tissue when I stop to think.  It helps if we specify what we are really dealing with which in our case is a type of hypertropic collagen based scar tissue.

Plaque is a catch-all term for totally unrelated conditions.  It only describes the physical dimensions (thin layer) or general descriptions (patch of abnormal material).  It says nothing to describe what the specific material is or the underlying processes that cause each specific abnormal material.  That is why it is common to hear of plaque on the teeth (mucus & food debris), plaque in the arteries (fat and cholesterol build-up), plaque associated with Peyronies Disease (hypertropic scaring), Alzeheimers plaque (Deposits of aluminium silicate and amyloid peptides), just to name a few.  I know of absolutely no direct evidence that treating or preventing one of these will have any substantial impact on the many other forms of plaque since there is no real relationship.  The English language has many such ambiguities caused by shared terms.  It sometimes confuses their very, very limited commonality.  Words like; nodule, blotch, plaque, scale,  may each share some minor specific feature with other conditions using the same word but a scale and a scale are often more different from each other than a cat and a rhinoceros.

[roadblock]

I'm always on the hunt for novel oral medicinal agents to combat this disease. Curcumin has come up recently, and I've read the discussion and want to add a few things.

1) Curcumin has been showed to clear amyloid plaques in Alzheimers disease. These are much different than the collagen depositions in Peyronies disease.

2) There have been discussions on how to increase serum levels of curcumin. Everyone should be careful changing the way the body metabolizes drugs in general just to increase one drug level, as all of the drugs you take could potentially be affected.

3) Several pubmed articles commented on curcumin INCREASING tgf-beta levels and improving wound healing (meaning skin cuts...NOT collagen deposition)! These mediators improve wound healing by INCREASING deposition of, among other things, fibrin and collagen which is the OPPOSITE of what we want. Peyronies Disease seems, as best we can guess from what I've read, due to the body not being able to shut off the healing mechanism. Abnormal TGF beta molecules have been demonstrated in Peyronies Disease, and the body may not clear these as quickly who knows. But if TGF beta is increased, it is likely that the abnormal TGF beta increases along with it. Just my theory...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17569219?ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Many of us take pentox to decrease tgf-beta. My hope would be that curcumin wouldn't worsen the problem.

On a side note, there also was an article that demonstrated that tgf-beta skyrockets for several hours after strenuous exercise!!! That sucks...but obesity also raises tgf-beta through secondary mechanisms so I vote for being physically fit with Peyronies Disease!

To this day, nobody knows exactly what causes the abnormal depositioin of collagen in Peyronies Disease. My point is be careful, keep your head up and take one day at a time! And be very discerning with what you choose to put in your body, and always consider the cosequences of each move you make.

[George999]

What surprises me here is that nobody seems to have picked up on the notation in the alzheimer study noting that even different cases of alzheimers responded differently to treatment with curcumin / Vitamin D.  AND that they are discussing pre-treatment testing to determine who would benefit from what.  This alludes to a concept that Tim has discussed here before that perhaps each of us as different individuals require individualized treatment for Peyronie's.  So while we know that some things like Pentox seem to be helpful for a broad range of people, perhaps other things might be very beneficial for one individual, but not helpful or even perhaps detrimental for another.  Hawk has also alluded to this in the case of Vitamin D.  This is the value of having this discussion.  So while I am extremely excited about the research discoveries going on out there, I think it is important to realize that there simply is NO SLAM DUNK for this on the horizon.  This is not to say we should be gripped by depression.  Believe me, the NEAR future looks extremely positive to me.  I also believe that a solution is near.  But that is an entirely different thing from saying that we are on the verge of an EASY solution.  The tools are improving and soon will enable us to put this disease in reverse.  But it is NOT going to be a matter of "take this little pill and tomorrow everything will be normal".

Also, regarding plaque.  What ALL plaque has in common is that they represent a build up of abnormal and foreign material in various tissues.  That is WHY it is collectively referred to as "plaque".  Essentially, Plaque = bio-debris.  What researchers are searching for is a common technique for stimulating the immune system to clean up this foreign material as it is supposed to.  There are more than a few indications that these build ups demonstrate a common process gone bad even though the materials deposited vary widely in composition.  Research has demonstrated an association between things like Alzheimers, heart disease, and ED, and others, ED often being a euphemism for Peyronie's.  - George

[newguy]

roadblock - There are various studies suggesting that curcumin inhibits collagen and TGF beta production. I'll stick with it and see how it goes.

I agree with your point relating to being careful changing the way the body metabolizes drugs though. I had been using black pepper with curcumin for a few days, but it's probably not worth it all things considered.

[slowandsteady]

The Alzheimer's study seems to be an in vitro study. I'd have been more impressed were it in actual people, but it is hopeful nevertheless.

The biggest positives to me with curcumin have been the results I'm seeing. It seems to have halted the progression of the disease for me these past few weeks, with perhaps the beginning of some curvature changes too (though that could be wishful thinking; it's still too early to tell). Pain is gone, and I think that points to good fundamental changes happening.

[roadblock]

How much curcumin is everyone taking?

[Noway]

I have been to one urologist and he told me surgery for peyronies disease is the only way. I asked him about medications and other ways of fixing it and he sais no only surgery.  

[hopeful74]

Has anyone tried Herbal Ed's tonics like Gotu Kola or Connective tissue tonic?

[ComeBacKid]

Your doctor is simply incorrect.  There is no straight across the board answer for peyronies, everyones case is different.  You are foolish not to try non surgery remedies like pentox before going into surgery.  Even that does not address the underlying root of the problem with the auto immune dysfunction.  You've gotten bad advise, but you found our pds society, so your in good hands now! The first thing I'd try if you would be pentox!  You need to seek out a new doctor though. Unfortunately a lot of surgeons and doctors will tell you , you need a surgery or a procedure when its simply not true, especially if they sell that surgery (hmm conflict of interest? nahhh never!!!).  

Comebackid

[Noway]

comebackid what is pentox and how would I get that?

[LWillisjr]

comebackid what is pentox and how would I get that?

Short form for a perscription drug. Full name.... Pentoxifyline. Generic name is Trentol.

Your uorologist will need to prescribe it. Not all uro's believe that it is effective and are hesitant to do this.

Many here have found that it helps to relieve pain with erections. It also improves blood flow to the penis.  

[Fred22]

comebackid what is pentox and how would I get that?

Short form for a perscription drug. Full name.... Pentoxifyline. Generic name is Trentol.

Your uorologist will need to prescribe it. Not all uro's believe that it is effective and are hesitant to do this.

Many here have found that it helps to relieve pain with erections. It also improves blood flow to the penis.

Actually I believe it's the other way around.  Pentoxifylline is the generic. Trental is a brand name.

Fred

[George999]

I saw this and found it extremely interesting as it seems to attack the underlying root of autoimmune disease:

Low Dose Naltrexone

Autoimmune diseases. Within the group of patients who presented with an autoimmune disease (see above list), none have failed to respond to LDN; all have experienced a halt in progression of their illness. In many patients there was a marked remission in signs and symptoms of the disease. The greatest number of patients within the autoimmune group are people with multiple sclerosis, of whom there were some 400 in Dr. Bihari's practice. Less than 1% of these patients has ever experienced a fresh attack of MS while they maintained their regular LDN nightly therapy.

Enjoy!

- George

[Iceman]

is there some cure yet??? - getting impatient here

[LWillisjr]

Fred22,
You are correct. Was typing too quickly......  thanks.

[roadblock]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19375729?ordinalpos=8&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

[George999]

I am on Losartan (Cozaar) because I needed a blood pressure drug and I specifically requested Cozaar from my physician because I believe it is helpful with my other problems INCLUDING Peyronie's.  I have been on it for some time now and continue to believe one of the best BP drugs out their for most hypertension patients.  It is still a few months away from being a generic so it is still a bit pricey.  I forget now exactly when it goes generic, but I think it may be this year or perhaps in 2011.  - George

[Skjaldborg]

Dear All:

I am on week 4 of 1200 mg/ day Trental. I was experiencing some mild nausea and grogginess during the early afternoon after the 2nd daily dose (I always take it with food). This appears to be subsiding. I have noticed several dietary changes that seem to mitigate the nausea. I hope this helps anyone else who experiences these side effects:

1. Acidic foods and beverages such as orange juice, citrus fruit, tomatoes and balsamic vinegar make me feel worse. Limiting intake of these foods (especially at noon) made me feel better.

2. Dairy, bread, cereal and other "bland" foods made me feel better. I ate more of these foods in the middle of the day and I felt better. Proteins also seemed beneficial. This is common sense for all tummy troubles, but worth mentioning.

3. Eating multiple small meals, especially a snack in the afternoon, kept the green gills at bay.

These last two aren't dietary, but are helpful nonetheless:
4. I started taking each does as far apart as possible within the recommended dosage period, taking my first dose at 6 or 7 am, second dose at 1 or 2 pm and final dose at 8 or 9 pm. I notice fewer incidences of nausea in the afternoon perhaps due to not having so much of the medication in my system at one time.

5. Started exercising in the morning rather than in the afternoon. Running and lifting in the heat make me feel gross anyway without having a gut full of slow release medication. Changing things up seems to help.

Hope this helps and good luck to everyone!

-Skjald

[cowboyfood]

Skjaldborg,

I just increased my Pentox daily intake to 1200 mg from 1000 mg.  I've been taking Pentox since mid-May.  So far, I have not noticed any side effects from Pentox, including nausea.  I have taken it with and without food.

It appears from other previous postings that some experience mild nausea and others do not.  

I'm glad to hear your modifications are making you feel better.

CF

[Tim468]

Skjaldborg,

Thanks for sharing your experiences here. I hope it helps others in need of such practical advice.

Tim

[ComeBacKid]

Cowboy,

I had nausea in the beginning only when I took the medication without food! This has went away for me now.  You might feel restless legs in the beginning to, or a need to move them around.  I always had and still have dry mouth, but its only mild, I drink a lot of water to try to flush the medication down, and since I take slow release big vitamins I want to flush them down as well.  I don't take a vitamin daily either... I know what you mean about working out with thick pills in your stomach,its not pleasant, I think when you drink more water or liquid it will help dissolve the pills quicker.  I don't take my vitamin and pentox pills together either, I try to wait at least 1 hour to take one after the other.

Comebackid

[Iceman]

i take all my vits in 1 go - i get really bad stomach pain but at least its over and done with - i take 3 x 400mg of pentox daily - love it and would take more if I could - it goes down well with my toast in the morning....only joking..this disease is a crippling nightmare and I can F***king wait to get off this  crap I put into my body - I must have done something REAL bad in my previous life!

[newguy]

Iceman - Maybe I'm not reading this right, but do you take all 3 pentox tablets at the same time? I tend to take them 8 hours apart so that it's always in my system.

I too get tired at times from taking all of the oral treatments, though if anything it's probably improved my overall health.  

[ocelot556]

I generally only take 800 mg of Pentox daily, as it's two pills worth - and I am a generally scatterbrained individual! I can remember to take a pill every 10-12 hours, but having to take one every 8 doesn't work for me. I'm either sleeping when the 3rd pill is required, or I miss a few hours and don't have time to take 3.

Which raises two questions - will two pills still have an effect? 1200 mg seems to be the number bandied about most often, though my Rx literature tells me to take the pills 12 hours apart (for claudication, naturally, not Peyronies Disease, so I can see where it might differ). I know it's working to an extent, but am I missing out on anything truly important by missing that 400mg daily?

Secondly, can you even take two pentox at once? I was under the impression that these were powerful blood thinners, and the literature states things like arythmia and seizures to be potential side effects of overdosing (it doesn't say what constitutes an overdose, however). I'm worried about taking a pentox less than 8 hours after my last one - I got into this whole Peyronies Disease mess taking a pill I didn't need, I'm wary of taking extra pills to cure it!

[joe]

Speaking of spacing apart Pentox, I had ordered Pentox once from an online pharmacy and got what I expected (Pentoxifilline).  The second time I ordered from them instead of getting Trental I got Kinetal, and it also says "Pentoxifilline Sustained Release Tablets" on the package.  Anyone else heard of this form?  Seems like it would be better.

[George999]

ALL Pentox tablets are sustained release, there is no other form of this drug.  - George

[joe]

George, I guess you are right..  I had assumed it was different and hadn't thought much more about it.  I just found this page, http://stason.org/TULARC/health/Drugs-Herbs-Manual/Pentoxifylline.html , which lists them both as trade names for Pentoxifylline. -Joe

[tjg]

Has anyone heard of Peyreton?