ORAL TREATMENTS - GENERAL - Vitamins, Prescriptions , Herbs, Supplements

[LWillisjr]

bluth,
Curious....   if you don't have curvature or pain, then what are your symptoms that resulted in the Peyronie's diagnosis.

[jackisback]

Hi bluth, ordering online would be your best bet. There are companies based out of the UK that ship everywhere in Europe, that's where I would go.

[Hitman]

homeopathy is nothing more than a powerful placebo effect which is quite a good thing.

[Port]

It would be awesome if Pentox could reverse the bend.  There are some posts here about Pentox doing just that, but I don't know how late it can be used before it's still effective.  I do know it takes a long time to work however, but, if it does, time is no problem of course.

[Hitman]

homeopathy is nothing more than a powerful placebo effect which is quite a good thing.

Theres alot more to it than that.... ur just conditioned thinking the way u do

there is nothing more to it. its your mind playing tricks on you. its a very powerful positive effect.

[bluth]

bluth,
Curious....   if you don't have curvature or pain, then what are your symptoms that resulted in the Peyronie's diagnosis.

I have a small bump inside my shaft. and it has perhaps grown a bit since i discovered it 3-4 months ago. My doc said i had peyronies and said I could experience curvature, shrinkage, etc.

That is why I am trying to be proactive as possible in taking the correct meds, but was wondering about exactly which L-Arginine product is necessary as I found all those others L-Arginine Alfaketoglutarat, L-Arginine HCL, L-Arginine Hydrochoride, L-Arginine Asparat, but none simply called L-Arginine.

I'd really appreciate if someone who had knowledge of those products let me know if any of these is what I am looking for as I want to start taking these ASAP. Are any of them acceptable to take for Peyronies Disease? I'd really appreciate clarification on this issue.

Best wishes.

[Iceman]

tjiena bluth - try some pentox.....get onto that asap.

cheers

[Hitman]

I would also add vitamin E and ALC

[Port]

tjiena bluth - try some pentox.....get onto that asap.

cheers

When shoud Pentox be used in someone's progression of Peyronie's disease before it becomes ineffective?  I ask because I've had this thing for about 2 1/2+ years now and I think mine's been stable for awhile now.  It even leans to the side while flaccid!  That one man that had a calcification removed so I guess it works even into the chronic phase? (Though acute phase is probably the ideal point to start). I'm seeing my urologist again for the second time next Wednesday and he's definately going to diagnose me because he's going to look at me erect and so I want to try and talk him into giving me a prescription for Pentox and some other things.  I have also heard Vitamin E in conjunction with Pentox is good.  Would it be good to suggest that also? Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

[bluth]

I would also add vitamin E and ALC

Thanks a lot. Iceman as well. What is ALC? Is it an over the counter drug, and if so what dosage would you recommend?

[Iceman]

ALC = acetyl l carnitine....

[slowandsteady]

Hello, first post to the forum. I'm 44 and have mild Peyronie's. So far no curvature, but a few areas of hard plaques that can be painful during the day.

I've mostly tried mixed tocopherol/tocotrienols vitamin E (Jarrow familE), Jarrow tocotrienol, 1 g l-arginine, serrapeptase, nattikinase, and 5000 IU vitamin D. So far, there has been not much in the way of changes.

As an experiment, and because I'm fighting off a cold, I'd like to try 100,000 IU vitamin D for three consecutive days to see what happens. I also take vitamin k (MK-7). So far, no magic bullets, though I'm going to try heat (certainly low tech and low risk).

slowandsteady

[Iceman]

learn4 life - can you post EXACTLY your regime and are you on pentox?? - ive had extreme pain for 9 months consistently but Im now taking 1 x MOBIC per day and this seems to have turned things completely around - interesting what you say about the Kota stuff

[bluth]

Important question about getting Pentox.

Based on my last week of research after being diagnosed it seems many people accept this as one of, if not the best treatments for the active stage of the disease. As I first discovered my hard nodule 3.5 months ago I am determined to get on Pentox to possibly prevent future problems.

My problem is that my urologist was very unhelpful and said there is nothing to do and no medication that helps. He also refused to see me for a fellow up when I was planning on coming armed with information about Pentox in hopes of getting a subscription...

Therefore I am wondering if I can buy Pentox (Trental I belive is the product) online from a trustworthy site? And preferably from a site that sends to Europe as I live in Sweden.

It really seems this product is my best bet and the earlier I get on it the better. It already seems my initial nodule has increased in size and that there is another one now next to it. Thanks for future help and it's wonderful to have this resource.

[Ticker]

www.mexmeds4you.com  TRENTAL

[Old Man]

bluth:

My suggestion to you is that if your present URO won't give you a follow up appointment, maybe you should be getting to another one real fast. Delaying therapy of some sort will only give the Peyronies Disease time to grow and give you problems with any treatment/therapy later.

Old Man

[bluth]

bluth:

My suggestion to you is that if your present URO won't give you an follow appointment, maybe you should be getting to another one real fast. Delaying therapy of some sort will only give the Peyronies Disease time to grow and give you problems with any treatment/therapy later.

Old Man

That is what I am trying to do. Though right now the best alternative is one month and I have no idea if that URO will say the same thing. Then I am again in the same boat despite knowing exactly what I want...

This is why it seems like it might be best to simply order Trental online since I know I want Pentox. What do you think?

[Old Man]

bluth:

I am going to pass this question off to Geogre999 as he is the resident oral treatment person. He has much more experience in that field than most any of us on board this forum.

Old Man

[didi20031]

bluth

The problem is that in Europe (or at least in most EU countries) urologists are not allowed to prescribe pentox, since it is not an accepted cure for peyronies or any other problem in the urogenital area...

If you have a family doctor whom you can trust, you can tell him/her your problem and that you absolutely want to try pentox. I would suggest that you show up with printouts of this forum and maybe Dr. Lue's article on pentox (I don't know where you can find it, but some other members of the forum maybe?!). If your doc is willing to help you he can prescribe Trental (pentox) for some other reason. Trental is commonly prescribed for tinnitus. The "advantage" of tinnitus is that nobody can proof that you do not have it, if you tell them you do...   So, you can also try to go to an ear specialist and tell him/her that you have a tinnitus and when he/she wants you to do an infusion therapy you tell that you prefer taking tablets... This is not really legal, but who cares? You don't hurt anybody and it is for your health!

I live in the EU too and I am on pentox. However, I have got the "big advantage" that I am really suffering from tinnitus...

@ all
I want to clarify that in my "real life" I am NOT a criminal!  

[Iceman]

BLUTH - fly to san fran and see dr lue - its worth the trip - dont delay!!!

[usol]

Hi All,
           I have had a severe case of peyronies for about three years now. I think it developed after an injury that occurred during intercourse. I have'nt found anything yet that has helped in my case. learning to live with this condition is unbelievably difficult. I have a very understanding spouse, but my feelings of inadaquacy are real and painful. I can't believe there is still no simple procedure for removing this plaque and restoring a healthy organ. I can't think of a more undermining condition for a man, than the eunich-like results of peyronies disease. sorry to post a depressed entry like this. Just really suffering it these days RG

[Iceman]

USOL - have you tried pentox or ALC
this might help...

[bluth]

I want to thank everyone again for all the tips, though it does seem I am out of luck buying Pentox online from Sweden...

I did succeed in setting up two visits this coming Monday to two different urologists. I was wondering what information people think I should prepare for these visits and hope to get out of them. It is likely I can't get Pentox, but is there a second best treatment for the intial stage that should be prescribed?

I am also very much considering flying out to Dr. Lue, but was wondering if I need some letter from my doc or if I can simply book a time with Lue without being referred. I want to make sure I am 100% prepared for booking a time with him and therefore wanted to check what you think my URO's should do to help with this.

Basically I just want to get ready so I get everything I can from these two visits and put myself in a better situation down the road to get whatever treatment I may need, but I am not sure what I should prepare, take with me, etc to do so.

One more thing: How should I best go about trying to convince my doc to prescribe Trental/Pentox?

[nemo]

Bluth, I get my trental from a Mexican pharmacy online.  PM me for the website - I'll be glad to share it.

Nemo

[George999]

bluth,  Your best chance of finding someone to prescribe Pentox to you is to have in hand a copy of Dr. Lue's paper on Pentox and Peyronies and provide that to them to look over.  As for Dr. Lue himself, he will not see you without a referral from your local urologist.  So if you want to see Dr. Lue, you will need to ask one of the doc's who turns you down on Pentox if he or she would be willing to provide you with a referral to Dr. Lue.  Dr. Lue wants to be absolutely sure that his patients have actually already been diagnosed with Peyronies so that he doesn't waste his time or yours.  This is why he needs a referral ahead of the visit.  - George

[slowandsteady]

Does anyone know of any supplements to boost collagenase in vivo?

The only supplement I've found is from Jarrow (here at iHerb). Collegenase is not a main ingredient however. How about collagenase precursors?

slowandsteady

[Old Man]

bluth:

See post 2663 below for the link to the Mexican where Trental/Pentox can be purchased on line.

Old Man

[Jazz]

Hi, bluth.  There are some questionaires out there.  Two links can be found at Peyronies Disease Advocates under staying informed/knowledgeable care - they are fairly simple.  Another can be found at curepeyronies.net - it is from a hospital in VA and is rather extensive, but will give you an idea of what info they may ask.  Not all doctors ask these questions, however - depends on the uro.  Pictures also help, if you can take them.  

Best of luck.
Jazz

[Jazz]

If you guys buy from mexmeds4u, I trust you have checked it out to make sure the meds are legit?  I am very leary of ordering anything like that online, maybe from a few Canadian pharmacies that my uncle uses for his meds (he lives near the border), but still haven't used them.  BF has gotten a scrip here for Trental, he's only been on it for a week, so no progress yet since it takes awhile.   However, if he wants to stay on it, and the uro doesn't want to prescribe it anymore, then this is a valuable link to have.

Jazz

[nemo]

I've gotten my Trental from mexmeds for several months and I believe it's legit stuff, in serial numbered blister packs, etc.  From my research on the net, this is one indicator of legitimacy of foreign acquired meds. I have no reason to doubt its legitimacy at this point and it beats trying to convince a Uro to prescribe it.

Nemo  

[jackisback]

Jazz - Your boyfriend shouldn't need to get Trental off mexmeds unless he doesn't have insurance it's got to be more expensive there.  If he doesn't have insurance, I recommend that he try to work for a company that can give good benefits--they'll come in handy if/when Xiaflex is administered as a Peyronie's treatment to the general public.

I think the Trental is legit for the reasons Nemo listed. However, it is expensive and customer service is not good. You don't even receive a confirmation email. On my third and most recent purchase I ordered two and only received one. It's on my credit card statement $69.24 from Manos Magicas. In all fairness, I didn't even try to get reimbursement, but it's only because they didn't reply to my email in the past, and I'm fairly sure I'm not getting my money back.

[bluth]

BLUTH - fly to san fran and see dr lue - its worth the trip - dont delay!!!

Thanks tons for the tip. I called Dr. Lue's office Friday and am considering a visit in a few weeks.

Are there any other equally skilled URO's more east coast? Dr. Levine in Chicago is supposed to be good as well if I have heard right? I live in Sweden and would prefer to make a shorter trip if possible, though I am of course wanting the best possible help.

Keep in mind I am looking for things that can help prevent my Peyronies Disease from progressing. Not sure if that makes a difference at all...

[slowandsteady]

Has anyone tried high dose resveratrol?

I've had a negative experience with that. I'm in the first stage peyronie's, where I have pain from the plaques but no curvature yet. At a dose of 500 mg 99% transresveratrol, I noticed a slight inflammation of the plaques. As a trial I dosed 5 grams two days in a row, and the inflammation was more pronounced.

To follow up on two days of dosing vitamin D at 100,000 IU/day: not much has changed. It did seem to stop the cold I was coming down with, at least.

slowandsteady

[George999]

slowandsteady,  The problem with oral Vitamin D is that it is stored in the fat cells.  Thus, they act like a sponge and the result is that blood plasma levels of Vitamin D tend to increase slowly.  And it is important to use caution with large doses, since at some point when the fat cells do become saturated, they can result in excess calcium in the bloodstream which is dangerous.  This can also happen with large doses in combination with calcium.  I strongly recommend that no one take large doses without the counsel of their personal physician.  There are studies that show large doses to be safe, but they are done by first testing serum Vitamin D levels, so that they always know where Vitamin D levels are at.  The only way that one can get some immediate effects from Vitamin D are via sunlight or artificial sunlight.  A couple of us are trying that now.  This way the Vitamin D is generated right in the tissues and made accessible to them without being eaten up by the fat cells.  - George

[Hitman]

a few comments about Vitamin D

There's a large variation in the serum response to D supplementation. Look at Figure 1 in this paper:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/73/2/288?ijkey=f9ddb9019f6d535f0653411662c2ade2af6bd01a.

Isn't it cute how they tried to draw a line through that mess?

The average joe would need about 3000-5000 IU according to this paper:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/77/1/204?ijkey=eea17655411f1c79d0ddaa19219592eaf2325b84.

William Davis, the Track Your Plaque guy, has put a lot of patients on D3 and monitored levels, and he reports that the dry form just doesn't seem to get people's levels up. I switched to gelcaps on the basis of that observation, and at 2400 IU/d, I recently tested at 46 ng/dl.

To my knowledge I don't think any studies have yet been done to validate any difference between sun produced vitamin D and oral consumption, all we know is that D3 is natural to humans and more efficient. Furthermore consuming D3 isn't an alien thing as eskimos do it in optimal amounts, and animals too. I reason if our bodies have a problem with oral consumption they would outright reject it.

[George999]

Hitman,  I think you should read further on the question of whether oral vitamin D has the same effect as sunlight vitamin D.  There are a number of differences between the two modalities that have been described in a number of studies.  Here is a news article referencing just one of those studies as an example:

Vitamin D Deficiency Study Raises New Questions About Disease And Supplements

Marshall's research has demonstrated how ingested vitamin D can actually block VDR activation, the opposite effect to that of Sunshine. Instead of a positive effect on gene expression, Marshall reported that his own work, as well as the work of others, shows that quite nominal doses of ingested vitamin D can suppress the proper operation of the immune system.

I think this study alone raises real questions regarding the wisdom of relying exclusively on Vitamin D supplements.   For healthy people there is likely little difference between the two.  For people who already have a problem, there are a lot of questions.  - George

Added note from George:  I really regret I posted this link.  The way Marshall interprets his data is really off base.  Hitman is correct, this guy's 'research' is really off the wall in terms of where he tries to go with it.  I remain convinced that Solar D is different than Dietary D.  Not better or worse, just different.  While the end product, D Hormone, is the same in both cases, the way it is delivered and modulated is radically different.  But this was absolutely the wrong study to use in an attempt to prove my point.  I apologize to all readers for my err in judgement in posting it.  - George

[Hitman]

Trevor's theory is based on a computer model and personal experience with a disease that causes D hypersensitivity. Trevor Marshall has conducted no study that shows:

a) a difference between ingested D3 and that which is made by the sun, (From all that we know, cholecalciferol is cholecalciferol, regardless if it is made in the skin or put in the mouth)

b) proof that vitamin D is detrimental to the immune system, which is curious when the body pushes cholesterol to the skin, for what we believe is a reason (in us and other animals).

Vitamin D has immunosuppressive *and* immune enhancing effects, that is it optimises the immune system to calm down where necessary (as in an allergic response) and 'fight' where necessary. These are the reports of accepted studies. Marshall thus far has a published opinion. When he has a peer-reviewed study published, then I'll give him attention.

The positive results of patients who reported progress on the Marshall Protocol study site after removing vitamin D from their diets could be explained solely by a decrease in the excessive 1,25-D causing immune suppression. We need more evidence to conclude that 25-D is immunosuppressive.

here is a debunking site:
http://stuff.mit.edu/people/london/universe.htm


Back to the Vitamin D issue

I have yet to see any in-vivo or in-vitro evidence that 25-D is a VDR antagonist. The first study below found that 25-D cannot displace 1,25-D from the VDR. The second study found that 25-D is 1% as effective as 1,25-D. And since there is so much more 25-D than 1,25-D, 25-D accounts for 1/8 of total vitamin D effect.

Am Rev Respir Dis. 1991 Jun;143(6):1376-80.
Expression of 1,25(OH)2D3 receptors on alveolar lymphocytes from patients with pulmonary granulomatous diseases.
Biyoudi-Vouenze R, Cadranel J, Valeyre D, Milleron B, Hance AJ, Soler P.
INSERM U.82, Faculté de Médecine Xavier Bichat, Departement de Pneumologie, Hôpital Tenon, Paris, France.

1,25(OH)2D3 is known to be produced at sites of granulomatous reactions. In order to characterize the cell types that are targets for this immunoregulatory hormone, we have evaluated the expression of 1,25(OH)2D3 receptors on peripheral blood T-lymphocytes and those recovered from the lung by bronchoalveolar lavage from patients with pulmonary granulomatous diseases (tuberculosis and sarcoidosis) and from normal control subjects using combined autoradiographic and immunohistochemical techniques. Lavage T-lymphocytes from patients with tuberculosis or with sarcoidosis, but not those from normal control subjects, expressed 1,25(OH)2D3 receptors as demonstrated by binding of [3H]1,25(OH)2D3, which was inhibited by the presence of excess unlabeled 1,25(OH)2D3, but not by the presence of unlabeled 25(OH)D3 (receptor-positive lymphocytes: sarcoidosis, 20 +/- 12%; tuberculosis, 31 +/- 17%). In contrast, blood lymphocytes from patients with granulomatous diseases did not express detectable 1,25(OH)2D3 receptors. The percentage of lavage T-lymphocytes expressing 1,25(OH)2D3 receptors was significantly greater for patients with tuberculosis presenting with isolated hilar adenopathy than for patients with pulmonary infiltrates and/or cavities. 1,25(OH)2D3 receptors were expressed to a greater extent on CD8+ T-lymphocytes than on CD4+ T-lymphocytes in sarcoidosis, whereas a greater proportion of CD4+ than of CD8+ T-lymphocytes from patients with tuberculosis were receptor-positive. These findings support the conclusion that the interaction of 1,25(OH)2D3 with its receptor on T-lymphocytes may play an important role in the regulation of granulomatous reactions, but because these receptors are expressed on different lymphocyte populations, the net effect of this potent immunoregulatory molecule is likely different in sarcoidosis and tuberculosis.

PMID: 1646583

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1997 Dec;82(12):4111-6.
Calcium absorptive effects of vitamin D and its major metabolites.
Heaney RP, Barger-Lux MJ, Dowell MS, Chen TC, Holick MF.
Creighton University, Omaha, Nebraska 68131, USA.

The absorptive response to graded doses of vitamin D3, 25(OH)D, and 1,25(OH)2D was measured in healthy adult men after treatment periods of eight, four, and two weeks, respectively. While no relationship was found between baseline absorption and serum vitamin D metabolite levels, all three vitamin D compounds significantly elevated 45Ca absorption from a 300 mg calcium load given as part of a standard test meal. 1,25(OH)2D was active even at the lowest dose (0.5 microgram/day), and the slope was such that doubling of absorption would occur at an oral dose of approximately 3 micrograms/day. 25(OH)D was also active in elevating absorption and did so without raising total 1,25(OH)2D levels. On the basis of the dose response curves for 1,25(OH)2D and 25(OH)D, the two compounds exhibited a molar ratio for physiological potency of approximately 100:1. The absorptive effect of vitamin D3 was seen only at the highest dose level (1250 micrograms, or 50,000 IU/day) and was apparently mediated by conversion to 25(OH)D. Analysis of the pooled 25(OH)D data from both the 25(OH)D- and vitamin D3-treated groups suggests that approximately one eighth of circulating vitamin D-like absorptive activity under untreated conditions in winter may reside in 25(OH)D. This is a substantially larger share than has been predicted from studies of in vitro receptor binding.

PMID: 9398723


Most people take the inadequate RDA as the less-effective D2 form in an ineffective tablet/powder form. More informed people are taking 1000 IU or more of D3 softgels. D3 is also a very cheap, easily available supplement. No one in Big Pharma or at the FDA is lifting a finger trying to protect D3 from Marshall's "science." No one is going to make anything close to a financial killing from D3, or by protecting the status quo.

Figure 6 summarizes why it's best to have a 25-D of at least 36-40 ng/ml. I've seen anecdotes of harm from 65 ng/ml, and 80 ng/ml is generally considered to be toxic.

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/84/1/18

[slowandsteady]

Hitman, I agree with everything you wrote about the Marshall protocol.

I'm not sure that I agree with your suggestion that 80 ng/mL is toxic. I read in the January 2008 vitamin D council newsletter:

The reason levels up to 100 ng/mL are published normals is because there is no credible evidence in the literature that levels of 100 ng/mL do any harm and because sun worshipers often have such levels.

I'm aiming for a minimum of 60 ng/mL for myself. I'm a low responder to vitamin D supplementation (2000 IU/day only gave me 40 ng/mL). I don't plan on dosing so high every day. It was a trial to see how it would impact the Peyronie's. I consider it more of my winter "inoculation", and won't be dosing vitamin D again until January.

slowandsteady

[bluth]

Does anyone have a link to a good study showing the usefulness of Pentox in the active stage? Or is the only study the one showing the single 51 year old recovering at http://www.nature.com/ncpuro/journal/v3/n2/full/ncpuro0409.html? If this is the one study why then do people feel Pentox is useful during the initial phase? Are there any other studies backing this up?

My doc in Europe I visited today did not prescribe me Pentox but was possibly interested in doing so if I had a good study to show. Good news he was open to discussion at least;)

[Hitman]

Hitman, I agree with everything you wrote about the Marshall protocol.

I'm not sure that I agree with your suggestion that 80 ng/mL is toxic. I read in the January 2008 vitamin D council newsletter:

The reason levels up to 100 ng/mL are published normals is because there is no credible evidence in the literature that levels of 100 ng/mL do any harm and because sun worshipers often have such levels.

I'm aiming for a minimum of 60 ng/mL for myself. I'm a low responder to vitamin D supplementation (2000 IU/day only gave me 40 ng/mL). I don't plan on dosing so high every day. It was a trial to see how it would impact the Peyronie's. I consider it more of my winter "inoculation", and won't be dosing vitamin D again until January.

slowandsteady

thanks for correcting me on that issue.

yes there is quite a variation in the the serum response to D supplementation. some of my friends had to go as high as 10,000 IU to receive similar values. Take a look at the image below:



by the way which form of D did u use when you took the 100,000IU dose? was it a tablet/powder or gel-caps?

[slowandsteady]

by the way which form of D did u use when you took the 100,000IU dose? was it a tablet/powder or gel-caps?

I used Jarrow softgels (here at iHerb).

[George999]

Hitman,  I certainly don't agree with Marshall on all of his far fetched conclusions either.  But I think the results of his study provide some useful insights, namely that there are some pretty clear indications that supplements are not equal to sunshine.  As I mentioned, there are other studies out there that show other important differences between the two approaches.  But what REALLY convinces me of this is the fact that I have used (and AM USING) both the sunlight approach and the supplement approach.  And I can tell you from personal experience that the sunlight approach works significantly better for me.  There is no question that the light has worked far better for me than the supplemental D3.  And, regardless of what the research shows, I will go for what works when I find something that works this well.  Additionally, I have a nasty inflammation problem in my legs and the light works on that, but not the Vitamin D pills.  And as for Marshall, if I really believed all of his conclusions, I would not be taking 12,000IU of Vitamin D3 each day.  I would also suggest that, with Vitamin D3 effectiveness literally all over the map as evidenced in the study you present, that, at least in some cases, UV delivery would be more effective.  Additionally, sunlight brings with it other components that the supplement lacks.  Those would include things like co-occurring hyperthermic effect, endocrine modulating effect, along with other important adjuncts, some of which we may not even know about.  - George

[Hitman]

George if its working for you then I can't argue with it. You said however that you were using artifical sunlight? how did u manage to do that?

[George999]

Does anyone have a link to a good study showing the usefulness of Pentox in the active stage? Or is the only study the one showing the single 51 year old recovering at http://www.nature.com/ncpuro/journal/v3/n2/full/ncpuro0409.html? If this is the one study why then do people feel Pentox is useful during the initial phase? Are there any other studies backing this up?

bluth,  Unfortunately there is only the one study at this point on Pentox.  So why would people use a drug with only one study to back up its effectiveness?  Several reasons:

1)  First and foremost, if you look around at Peyronies treatments, you will find few, if any, with more than one study to back up their effectiveness.  Vitamin E, for example, is widely prescribed, and yet it has no studies demonstrating it to be effective.  In light of this, one study doesn't look all that bad.

2)  The 'one study' was done by a doctor who is really a renowned specialist in the Peyronies field, not a backwater researcher, and thus carries additional weight for that reason.  And he is not only a renowned doc, he practices at a prestigious medical school.

3)  Pentox is cheap, as such drugs go, it has a long track record of safety for long term use, has relatively few side effect, is reasonably easy to take, and it has been proven effect via multiple studies in terms of dealing with other forms of fibrosis.  It is a known "anti-fibrotic" drug.

4)  TGF-beta1 is a known and key villain when it comes to Peyronies and Pentox is known to target that cytokine.

I could probably come up with more reasons, but that is a start.  To put it simply, when you start to critically examine the alternatives, Pentox shines like a star in the darkness.  And that is not to say there are not other effect treatments, it is just that they are not nearly as attractive as Pentox.  - George

[George999]

George if its working for you then I can't argue with it. You said however that you were using artifical sunlight? how did u manage to do that?

Hitman,  First of all, I want to thank you for calling me out on that stupid Trevor Marshall study.  I don't know how I ever managed to use that dumb thing as an example.  Please note the disclaimer I just added to the bottom of the post.  It didn't actually take me long to figure out that I was trying to defend the indefensible.  But I do have reasons that I am partial to the light at this point.  One is that it bypasses the whole digestive pathway and the central process (liver and kidneys) by which the body converts Vitamin D to active D Hormone which is able to bind to the celular VDRs.   D Hormone bound to cellular VDRs prevents auto immune damage (resulting in inflammation) AND causes cancer cells to naturally commit suicide, thus this is a very key metabolic process.  In the case of sunlight its all very simple.  The skin and underlying tissues perform the whole process from beginning to end.  The whole process is under "local control" as opposed to "central control".  Secondly, oral Vitamin D consumption also depends on the circulatory system to get D Hormone to the stressed tissues and often that circulatory system is itself compromised.  In the case of sunlight, UVB is able to penetrate quite deeply down into the skin.  Thus fairly large amounts of D Hormone can be amassed in a very close proximity to the problem in a case like Peyronies.  This is an opportunity just begging to be exploited.  AND, when you use both, you can provide two sources of D Hormone at once from two different directions.  As to how it is done.  It is done with an undoped, unshielded quartz halogen light.  They get very hot and, like the sun, they can give one a nasty burn, so they need to be used with caution.  Also, since they emit copious amounts of UVA/B/C radiation, sun glasses need to be used and even then it is better to completely protect the eyes as much as possible.  At this point I don't want to over encourage you or anyone else to try this method.  I still have a ways to go to verify its long term effectiveness, but so far it has been very useful.  If your Peyronies is currently under control, I recommend that you stay tuned and I will keep you informed.  However, for anyone struggling with trying to get a handle on their situation, I think this would be worth a try.  So far it is working very well for me.  - George

Warning, since posting this message, I have learned that using these lamps in this way can pose a danger, so I no longer will be using my lamp unshielded.  - George


NOTE:  Since posting the above warning, I have now changed to using a Sperti mercury vapor UVB lamp.  These lamps are expensive, but they are designed for the purpose and thus safer than the halogen type.  - George

See pics of my setup below:

[George999]

I also use a timer so I don't fry myself:

[gerMike]

Anybody tried Wobenzym therapy?

I started to take 3x5 tabletts per day and noticed that my pain in the leg and penis calms down. Additional I take 2000UI Vit D and 400mg full spectrum Vit E.

I found an interesting patent that states that the enzymes found in Wobenzym lower TGF-beta activity => http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP1103272.html

[slowandsteady]

On the same note, anyone try Fibrozyme? Both it and WobenzymN are made by the same company.

I've tried serrapeptase and nattikinase separately (Doctor's Best brand), but didn't notice anything immediately.

[Fred22]

George,

I was just looking at the pics of your lamp setup.  It looks like you have it mounted to the wall, is that correct?  What type of wall is it?  I was planning on mounting mine on the wall in my studio which is painted drywall, but was concerned about the heat issue.  What type of material is yours mounted on?  The one that I got at Home Depot (which we discussed by PM), didn't work out.  The tripod would not hold in position and the whole thing was kind of shaky after assembly and was only about 5 feet tall sitting on collapsable table (not to mention it is on recall and was not supposed to be sold).  I'm now looking at a couple of other 250 W single lamps at Home Depot, but I'm still concerned about the wall mounting due to the heat issue.  What do you recommend?  Thanks.

Fred

[George999]

Fred,  Actually it is not mounted on the wall, just leaning against the wall.  As for the heat issue, the heat is pretty much projected forward from the lamps, the shells are usually finned and dissipate heat pretty well so they don't get super hot.  I would think that what you want to really be concerned about would be things like having the lamp end up face down on carpet or against furniture when lit.  That could cause a fire.  Sorry that the first one you found was such a disaster.  The free standing ones should be stable enough to sit on a table with no problem, there was definitely something defective about the one you got.  In my case my walls are drywall which is pretty resistant to heat.  But I have leaned this one I have against plywood walls before with no problems.  I would never leave it on out of my sight, of course, but I would never have reason to do that.  They do take some improvisation, that just goes with the territory.  Any one you get, you should be able to try without actually mounting it, that we you can get an idea of how much heat it puts out in various directions.  - George