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[Dorian]

Hello,

I saw a rather prominent Peyronie's specialist in my area, as recommended on this site, as a second (actually third) opinion. He agreed with everything I am doing, per my original urologist as in my sig, with the exception of how I'm doing the VED. I'm essentially doing the single cylinder VED protocol listed here. I will mention that I do not really have any curving but hourglassing, denting, and hinging about an inch from the base.

He said I should pump up to a full *comfortable* erection and then hold it for 10 minutes. He said the point of this exercise is to laterally stretch the problem area and maintain that stretch. This would not be unlike the sustained stretch I do longitudinally with the RestoreX. That is, I'm not cycling short holds and releases.

What he said made sense to me but obviously goes against everything I've read here that seems to revolve around repeated 10 second holds and a focus on fresh oxygenated blood delivery. I do know Olive referenced a study that had positive results where they had 3 3-minute holds.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Dorian

[AverageBloke]

This is interesting. I too believe that a longer stretch would be helpful as you are pushing the dent out. However, people who have held erections for long durations in the VED have caused damage. Try it and report back so we can see how you went.

[Zlobenia]

I would also be very interested about this. Everything I've read originating in this forum says to do repeated cycles, but I've read multiple people saying their urologist asks for full, total erection and holding that. Which is correct?

At the end of the day the number #1 thing is "don't hurt yourself" so whatever one does, making sure you dstop if you feel any discomfort and pain and remembering to use cold therapy etc. if you do is the most important thing.

[Mikel7]

The VED protocol here has been time tested and is successful because of the nature of it. We men have peyronies disease which means that for whatever reason our penises get injured somehow and heal erratically.  It is true that you could try what the urologists suggests - but be warned that this has injured very many men.  Now for the man that has never had peyronies or any healing injury this may not even do him harm. Just remember if you even cross over to the pain threshold you could possibly make things worse.  The VED protocol here brings in fresh new oxygenated blood and fluids to heal and promote gentle erections.  I would be very careful.

[Winter]

I had a consultation with a, well known and respected, doctor from my country recently.
He also told me to pump it to the level of “comfortable erections”, for 3 minutes, and then release it and rest for 30 seconds. Then to repeat this 5 times.
The dents on my penis only do appear up until, at least, 85% of full erection. I am afraid that, by not reaching up to this point, to be wasting my time. I don't have erectile disfunction or significant curvature, I just wanna fill up the dents to recover girth.

[Zlobenia]

Hi Winter,

I understand your concerns about wasting your time and not treating the important part of it.
Realistically, I understand that any stretching of it at all to any degree is useful in itself. Of course, at the same time you don't want to overpump and make everything worse by exacerbating the condition. I think at the end of the day you may just want to play it safe and see what you can do with a comfortable pump level: plus pumping to any degree is still going to stretch out the tunica in a very even way all over so it'll still act on those plaques anyway. If after a while of your regime it doesn't help with the problem then you could try pumping higher I suppose but as someone who's read a lot on the topic I'd really say playing it safe and sound is probably the better option here.
Whatever you do decide, do keep us updated because I'm interested in the best way to do this stuff.

[Old Man]

Hey:

I agree with Mikel7:

The forum's protocols were formulated by using excerpts from several VED manufacturers suggested protocol. The end result from using one of the forum's protocols is that they are purposely designed so that VED users WILL NOT OVERPUMP VACUUM AND CAUSE FURTHER INJURY. And, over pumping cautions are posted all over the boards so please be careful with VED usage.

So, bottom line is to be safe rather than be sorry later.

Old Man

[Dorian]

Hi Old Man,

When you say "overpump" are you referring to the actual pumping itself or the duration of the hold?

I'm confident I can pump up to an appropriate level and will not go overboard with that aspect. I've been doing OK for 5 months so and I'm not going to be adding any pumps to my routine. The only question I have to decide on is if I hold for a longer duration for a sustained stretch. (Recall for me, I have hourglassing, denting, and hinging I'm trying to fill out rather than rectifying a curve..., if that means anything.)

I've been doing 10-15 second holds. I know the oft touted study says to do 3 minute holds. And now my urologist is saying to do a 10 minute hold.

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

Thanks,
Dorian

[Dorian]

Hi all,

What would the signs of overpumping be? Or generally what should I be looking and watching out for?

As per my original post in this thread, my uro has told me to pump to a full (COMFORTABLE) erection and hold it for 10 minutes to stretch the scarring in my hourglass area. There is a positive study of (3) 3-minute holds I've seen. And then of course we all know the protocol here.

While I have not gone to 10 minute... or even 3 minutes holds... I have done 30-60 seconds at full erection. I pump to where I start to feel some stretch in the hourglass area. I never pump to discomfort. In fact, the little stretch feels good in my problem area. That said, this is clearly a full or nearly full erection. I work up to this and probably only get to this point in 2nd half of my 10 minute routine.

I've been doing this for about a month with either no improvement or perhaps a very slight improvement. The hourglass area never fully fills out but sometimes I think it is filling out slightly more than before.

What should I be looking out for in terms of overpumping or causing damage/injury?

Thanks,
Dorian

[jj21]

When I was doing VED - I did 3 months with 15 second holds then 3 months with 30 second holds... I found the 15s hold more beneficial for my condition.

I actually saw great improvement in girth, Erectile Dysfunction and curvature after 3 months at 15s holds. After getting ahead of myself and deciding to do 30s holds for the next three months I ended up doing damage and causing an exacerbation to the dent on my right side base. This is yet to heal and has resulted in me not being able to do further VED therapy or use RestoreX comfortably.

I would say 3 months with the protocol here at 15s holds had me about 60% recovered. I could finally sleep on my stomach with no pain, Erectile Dysfunction was much better, some improvement in girth. Generally no pain whatsoever. I used the 3 cylinder protocol. Atm I cant sleep on my stomach without pain, have hinging and pain in the right side base dent. Also seem to have created a groove on my scrotum right side where the pump would hold - I assume this is from holding too long (not sure what it is, maybe scrotal cords or lymph issue).

What worked for me may not work for you. Each person has a unique and separate condition.

Just be mindful of overpumping and getting ahead of yourself once seeing results. I got too confident and started doing 30s holds and being oblivious to the signs of overpumping - this has cost me a lot.

J

[Old Man]

Dorian:

Sorry, but for some reason I missed your post about what over pumping means. Over pumping is when you just keep pumping vacuum until your Dick begins to exhibit discomfort and a lot pain. This begins with a little pain and suddenly increases to pain beyond a comfortable level. Further injury begins at this level, so just don't do it!!!

Also, as a footnote about pumping and holding times of mild pumping strokes: There are posts with cautions all over the main forum VED board section of the home page when logging in. So please take notice of these and use only mild pumping and holding times pumped before releasing the vacuum, please pause until you go flaccid. Then start over with a new pumping cycle per the VED protocol.

Old Man

[Dorian]

Thank you for the replies and thoughts.

To be clear, I've been using VED since late March. I've basically followed the protocol here. I think I have been very conservative. I have never pumped to discomfort, let alone actual pain. In fact, the stretch often feels good. I often have flaccid pain which is alleviated by both VED and traction, both while doing it and for many hours after.

Around a month ago I started toying with extended VED holds. I don't think I have ever done more than a minute because of all the warnings I constantly see. I did not do the 10 minutes the urologist recommended. (He is known as one of the Peyronies specialists in my area, a major metropolis, and is recommended here.) His rationale did make sense to me though. And as I mentioned, and others have, there is a positive VED/Peyronies study with (3) 3-minute holds. In theory, this makes sense to me why you would want a sustained stretch. My main issue is hourglassing/denting and when I do VED I primarily feel the pressure in this area so I feel like it is being applied where it needs to be. I'd think holding that stretch a bit longer could be beneficial.

I may be missing something which is why I'm asking. I'm still not understanding what could negatively happen with a longer hold at a comfortable pressure.

Thanks,
Dorian

[Anbil]

Personally holding for longer than one minute lead ruined my EQ.

Everyone is different but I would highly advise to stick to the recommended protocol on the forum.

[Pfract]

Personally holding for longer than one minute lead ruined my EQ.

Everyone is different but I would highly advise to stick to the recommended protocol on the forum.

@Anbil: Correlation does not mean causation. There are several protocols from Dr's online on treating Erectile Dysfunction and peyronies as well as it is recommended for Erectile Dysfunction to use a vacuum pump on your penis. Unless you severely overpump  on your erect penis then the VED does not pose a problem. Stop spreading misinformation like this, please.

[skunkworks]

The protocol posted by Olive is literally the only one backed by a study.

[Olive]

The protocol posted by Olive is literally the only one backed by a study.

Well there is one study that was done at Norwich University Hospital and this study had the best results. You can find the study in the leaflet that comes with SOMA pump, but the only problem is that they do not tell what kind of VED protocol they used. I have tried to do a little detective work to find the protocol but no luck.

"The latest clinical study, conducted at Norwich University Hospital (presented at the European Society of Sexual Medicine in Milan 2011) established that up that up to 80% of patients can experience an average curvature reduction of 47% of the initial presenting angle eg. an angle of 50 degrees could be reduced by as much as 24 degrees on average. Most patients will experience an improvement of over-all erectile function on other levels with regular therapeutic device application. Further studies underway at various UK centres including The Whittington University Hospital (London), Western General Hospital (Edinburgh) and Royal Hampshire Hospitals (Winchester)."
https://www.mypelvichealth.co.uk/en/men/erectile-penile-health/penile-curvature/somacorrect/

Any ideas how we could get the protocol that was used in this study?

[Olive]

Actually the only published VED study and Norwich University Hospital study have pretty similar results when you take into consideration that Norwich study lasted one year and the published study lasted only three months. Anyway, it would've been nice to know what kind of protocol they used in Norwich University Hospital.

[Anbil]

@Anbil: Correlation does not mean causation. There are several protocols from Dr's online on treating Erectile Dysfunction and peyronies as well as it is recommended for Erectile Dysfunction to use a vacuum pump on your penis. Unless you severely overpump  on your erect penis then the VED does not pose a problem. Stop spreading misinformation like this, please.

I'm not spreading misinformation, I'm sharing my personal experience.

You attacking me for sharing my personal experience is spreading misinformation, which is an extremely irresponsible thing to do as a mod.

[Dorian]

I saw my original regular urologist today. This is not the one that told me to pump and hold for 10 minutes. In fact, when I first asked about it, he told me not to bother with VED as RestoreX is the superior device.

At my appt today, which was essentially my 3rd appt with him (9 months) since he diagnosed me. We were going over my status and some minor improvements were noted. We reviewed all I'm doing, per my sig, and is when I let him know I have been doing VED. He seemed OK with it and said it's what he recommended to patients before RestoreX came along. He said it could offer some complementary benefit. I asked him what protocol he recommended as there is a vast range of opinions.

He said pump to full comfortable erection and hold for 5 minutes. He said since my major issues is wasting and denting, along with the fact that I get erections OK so getting "fresh oxygenated blood" to the area is not the point, the point is to stretch the plaque.

This guy is the head of urology (and the male health center) of a major hospital system where I live.

Just putting this out there for info/conversation. Personally, I'm still scared to do 10 minutes, 5 minutes, or even the 3 minutes holds.

[jj21]

Dorian - that is an interesting theory. I also assumed stretching the plaque via VED would be beneficial too. The fresh oxygenated blood makes sense as well.

I think different things work for different people - each persons case is unique to them.

My uro suggested VED for the narrowing and said RestoreX would cause further damage to dents at the base - other uros said the opposite.

I think a lot of it is trial and error.

I will say that I did find a lot of benefit in the past from the VED protocol here with 15s holds before. Not long after I started doing 30s holds and overpumped to injury which set me back months.

Hope my expereiences can help any of you's who are pumping!

[Mikel7]

I think a lot of it is trial and error.

  Bingo - reading what others have done and just trying it. If it is successful then by all means try it and give it time.

[jj21]

  Bingo - reading what others have done and just trying it. If it is successful then by all means try it and give it time.

Mike - noticed in your signature you stopped all meds - i'm thinking of quitting Pentox. I know it's different for everyone but Any advice based on your experence?

[Mikel7]

I don't want to hijack this thread on VED but I had to quit all meds because of it being ototoxic to my ears. Dr's can't pinpoint what caused it so all meds had to go - even advil and tylenol. I am not sure it Pentox was helping or not - I know Cialis was helping out a lot.

[Dorian]

Hi all,

As I've been seeing a lot of VED talk lately, I was reminded of this thread and what I've been doing.

I have been, for much of this year, pumping to full erection. There is never any pain. I have lines on the cylinder that I know never to go beyond but I do pump to what would be a full erection and stop when I feel pressure in my hourglassing/denting/hinge area. The pressure feels good like a nice stretch of a sore muscle might. i hold for a minute or two.

I will say I work myself up to this and only get to full erection size at around the 5 minute mark after cycling holds at smaller sizes until comfortable. That leaves 5 minutes of a minute or two holds at full erection. I have been pondering extending my daily session to 15 minutes or doing 2 sessions.

At the end of the day I subscribed to what the doc said about the goal being to achieve a sustained stretch. Plus the only actual study I saw showed 3 minute holds.

Overall, I have had some improvement. I am doing a lot so I can't specifically say it's the VED but for the girth improvement in my narrowed area, I suspect it is from VED. I have not noticed any negatives.

Dorian