Need ingredient ideas for Verapamil DMSO Transdermal Cream

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Anbil

my urologist has very thankfully been willing to prescribe a verapamil topical just to try.

I'm trying to develop a formulation that would be ideal and looking for advice on what else I should put in there aside from 15% verapamil.

So far I have been thinking of 15% verapamil 10% pentoxyfilline 20% DMSO in a lipoderm base

I am wondering about tranilast as well which is a commonly prescribed scar cream as well as been used for peyronies in japan.

I know verapamil and pentoxy are both safe bets as they have been used to inject into plaques.

otherwise I'm not sure what else or if adding other things would even be beneficial

if anyone has any input would be greatly appreciated, I'm looking at you @melting



https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330427993_Formulation_and_evaluation_of_transdermal_drug_delivery_system_of_verapamil_hydrochloride

I saw this interesting study suggestiong 20% DMSO increased permeability more than 40%.

I have little understanding of biochemistry so I would appreciate any smarter posters could help me out.
Onset of pain in March 2021
Progressed to loss of girth to dent under the glans left side

Been doing daily heat,traction,pentox,ved,cialis since initial onset of pain

Currently still experiencing pain and dent unchanged

projectpd

Hello Anbil
That study is interesting indeed, as they said, previous studies had found higher concentrations of DMSO are necessary, eg. at leat 50%. But if 20% can be 3 or 4 times better than 40%, it would be interesting to know for what possible reason, and if any other percentage might be better still than 20 %. But they omit the results for vh9 to vh12, and what they said about the relation with HPMC, if you compare vh1 and vh3, it's the opposite, vh1 was the worst. Their references on DMSO that they criticise were interesting too e.g. massively higher permeability for oleic acid (as in olive oil) at one concentration of the drug but not another only slightly different one.
Verapamil is very cheap by the way about $2 a pill.
Age 57, Onset 2010, 2" shortening, shrinking and angulation of glans, weaker erections, 30 degree bend. Mild pain few months, but far from worst symptom. Tried many ideas, not just from here, but not consistently. Moderate improvement, maybe 40%

projectpd

Many things could potentially enhance permeation!
Hydration (or avoiding it)
Temperature
Oleic acid
Ultrasound, high frequency and/or low frequency
Pressure
Iontophoresis
Vibration
Liposomal and more advanced formulations e.g.
Ethosomes -sonicaction with ethanol
Invasomes -combination with terpenes from essential oils
Age 57, Onset 2010, 2" shortening, shrinking and angulation of glans, weaker erections, 30 degree bend. Mild pain few months, but far from worst symptom. Tried many ideas, not just from here, but not consistently. Moderate improvement, maybe 40%

Anbil

Quote from: projectpd on August 13, 2021, 04:28:39 PM
Many things could potentially enhance permeation!
Hydration (or avoiding it)
Temperature
Oleic acid
Ultrasound, high frequency and/or low frequency
Pressure
Iontophoresis
Vibration
Liposomal and more advanced formulations e.g.
Ethosomes -sonicaction with ethanol
Invasomes -combination with terpenes from essential oils

Oh wow, I have barely any science background so many of those terms are alien to me.

Would something like DMSO be able to allow verapamil and pentox to penetrate the tunica? If not do you have any idea what out of the many things you wrote would be able to.

Note it would have to be able to be compounded into a transdermal cream.
Onset of pain in March 2021
Progressed to loss of girth to dent under the glans left side

Been doing daily heat,traction,pentox,ved,cialis since initial onset of pain

Currently still experiencing pain and dent unchanged

nemo

With Pentox, do you know the molecular weight is conducive to transdermal penetration with DMSO? I know there's a certain threshold above which DMSO won't bring molecules through the skin. Would need to know Pentox fits this profile or it may just remain on the surface. It's all above my pay-grade, but I've heard folks speak of this before.

Nemo
51 yrs. old, multiple auto-immune conditions. First episode of Peyronies Disease in 2002. Recurred a couple times since. Over the years I have tried Topical Verapamil, Iontophoresis, all the supps and Cialis + Pentoxifylline. Still functional, always worried.

projectpd

Yes it should be with weight of only 278. I believe that maximum of around 400 isn't a hard and fast rule: Permeability of serrapeptase, using only DMSO, has been measured, which is a weighty 52000.
Age 57, Onset 2010, 2" shortening, shrinking and angulation of glans, weaker erections, 30 degree bend. Mild pain few months, but far from worst symptom. Tried many ideas, not just from here, but not consistently. Moderate improvement, maybe 40%

nemo

Great - I'll be interested to hear if you see (or feel some results). I believe Pentox in a dish was shown by Lue to dissolve Peyronies Disease scarring, but the problem has always been getting the same results when taken orally. Dish results don't always correlate with the real world. Keep us posted.

Best of luck,
Nemo
51 yrs. old, multiple auto-immune conditions. First episode of Peyronies Disease in 2002. Recurred a couple times since. Over the years I have tried Topical Verapamil, Iontophoresis, all the supps and Cialis + Pentoxifylline. Still functional, always worried.

projectpd

Verapamil is highly absorbable orally and transdermal patches have been studied using only oleic acid (an olive oil constituent) or Polyethylene glycol. (PEG) https://www.japsonline.com/admin/php/uploads/816_pdf.pdf
Personally I'd rather not use synthetic substances with DMSO though: PEG is known to induce PEG antibodies, but there are more natural substances that I expect have similar properties. For gelling, and emulsifying, you have xanthan gum, and lecithin, rather than synthetic polymers.
Age 57, Onset 2010, 2" shortening, shrinking and angulation of glans, weaker erections, 30 degree bend. Mild pain few months, but far from worst symptom. Tried many ideas, not just from here, but not consistently. Moderate improvement, maybe 40%

projectpd

Oops! Propylene glycol (PG) . PG is supposed to be safer than PEG.
Age 57, Onset 2010, 2" shortening, shrinking and angulation of glans, weaker erections, 30 degree bend. Mild pain few months, but far from worst symptom. Tried many ideas, not just from here, but not consistently. Moderate improvement, maybe 40%

Anbil

Quote from: projectpd on August 14, 2021, 08:42:56 AM
Verapamil is highly absorbable orally and transdermal patches have been studied using only oleic acid (an olive oil constituent) or Polyethylene glycol. (PEG) https://www.japsonline.com/admin/php/uploads/816_pdf.pdf
Personally I'd rather not use synthetic substances with DMSO though: PEG is known to induce PEG antibodies, but there are more natural substances that I expect have similar properties. For gelling, and emulsifying, you have xanthan gum, and lecithin, rather than synthetic polymers.

I talked to the pharmacist, he is mixing 15% verapamil with versapro which he says i used to deliver medication into the joints/ muscles

what do you think about this choice?
Onset of pain in March 2021
Progressed to loss of girth to dent under the glans left side

Been doing daily heat,traction,pentox,ved,cialis since initial onset of pain

Currently still experiencing pain and dent unchanged

projectpd

I don't know .. I found this list by the producer of versapro which doesn't include it themselves for verapamil, I wonder if there was any reason?

https://www.medisca.net/Files/BudDatabank/MAU%20-%20Topical%20BUD%20Databank.pdf.

( PLO is pluronic lecithin organogel, it's quite expensive. )
Age 57, Onset 2010, 2" shortening, shrinking and angulation of glans, weaker erections, 30 degree bend. Mild pain few months, but far from worst symptom. Tried many ideas, not just from here, but not consistently. Moderate improvement, maybe 40%

Anbil

Quote from: projectpd on August 15, 2021, 08:39:00 AM
I don't know .. I found this list by the producer of versapro which doesn't include it themselves for verapamil, I wonder if there was any reason?

https://www.medisca.net/Files/BudDatabank/MAU%20-%20Topical%20BUD%20Databank.pdf.

( PLO is pluronic lecithin organogel, it's quite expensive. )

I saw that also, I'm not sure as well as versapro seems to be there deepest penetration base

I was wondering if there was any indications for using a base and just loading it with permeation enhancers

like adding emu oil, propylene glycol, dmso at low concentrations with verapamil + pentox

is there anything wrong about this approach
Onset of pain in March 2021
Progressed to loss of girth to dent under the glans left side

Been doing daily heat,traction,pentox,ved,cialis since initial onset of pain

Currently still experiencing pain and dent unchanged

projectpd

I think so.  Oleic acid is one to consider , e.g. from olive oil - using an extra virgin olive oil with its anti inflammatory properties could be a bonus.  Emu oil itself is mostly oleic acid I believe. PG is used in food and cosmetics and hopefully safe enough unless you have a sensitivity to it, but it seems rather synthetic, people talk about propanediol as an alternative for use in foods, but it might not have all the same properties.  Another enhancer is ethanol, which is also a preservative, but it's harsh on the skin..  And another may be aloe Vera, at least fresh aloe Vera, a high quality bottled one is great for skin irritation, and providIng a gel consistency.
Age 57, Onset 2010, 2" shortening, shrinking and angulation of glans, weaker erections, 30 degree bend. Mild pain few months, but far from worst symptom. Tried many ideas, not just from here, but not consistently. Moderate improvement, maybe 40%

Tbones

I have stated previously that I thought I had Pyronines but I know think I have more like fibrosis.  I recently we to a podiatrist for planter fasciitis and he said that I actually had classic planter fibrosis.  I also have this in a pinky finger which has been slowly drawing up for about 15 years after a karate accident.  I also had a penis/sex accident 10 years ago and it's been slowly drawing up as well.  So I used this on my foot and in 1 day it made my painful arch nodules practically go away.  So I tried in on my pinky and saw about a 50% improvement in range with no pain. The damn thing is almost straight again, unbelievable.  Of course, next I tried it on my penis (started 2 days ago).  It acts sort of like Cialis and opens up your vascular veins.  I'm doing this in conjunction with jelking and a penis pump - alternating days.  I just started and I'm using it 3 times a day (as directed) and trying to work into the fiber/muscles affected.  The first day on it the penile pump measurement line it saw a 1/4 inch gain.  I'm pleased with that for 1 day.  I also see more girth.  I'm going to keep this up for at least a month.  Here is the formula and info from the tube:  You have to have a prescription and my foot doctor has no idea what I'm doing with it,  lol.  This is from the label:  EMB-P55, Verapamil HCL 15%, 3% lidocaine, 5% topical cream.  90gm  It comes from an online compounding pharmacy called Chemistry Rx Pharmacy and costs about $85 for a big tube.  It arrived in 2 days and so far I find it very promising. No side effects detected except I'm ready to go, if you know what I mean.  I'm not saying this is for everyone, but if you have similar problems with fibrosis in your body, also called Dupuytrens disease. I'm 57 years old, good health, non smoker, active, and in each case I have an issue is from a previous injury to that area, including the feet from running in my 30's.  Anyway, I'll keep you posted but this is the only update I've had a long time and anything close to hopeful.  Will see!