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Author Topic: Verapamil help with hourglass?  (Read 234 times)

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Sanabo

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Verapamil help with hourglass?
« on: July 09, 2021, 03:30:21 PM »

I have the bottleneck hourglass effect under my glans. The plaque is below that so its weird that this is happening. I also have an indent in middle of my glans.

Will verapamil help these get better?
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42, acute, began 2/21
15 degree curve left, 10 up, plaque below glans, increasingly softer erections and lowered libido
Carnitine, ALA, CoQ10, fish oil, magnesium, arginine, Cialis daily.
Starting traction with PMP

AverageBloke

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Re: Verapamil help with hourglass?
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2021, 05:33:22 PM »

No. Do not waste your time with verapamil. It does not do anything and worsen your condition. You could try xiaflex I have heard some accounts on the forum that it got rid of dents/hourglasses.
Logged
22 Years Old.
Multiple plaques. 30 Degrees Dorsal and 30 Degrees Right.

Current Treatments:
- Pentox 400mg x2 daily
- Cialis 5mg at night
- Ubiquinol 150mg x1 daily
- Vitamin E x1 daily
- Acetyl l-carnitine 2g
- Diclofenac gel for pain when needed

howtheheck

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Re: Verapamil help with hourglass?
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2021, 07:14:10 PM »

I would talk to a doctor who does both, and could feedback where one fits over the other.  Some doctors only did Verapamil injections and then Xiaflex came along and they switched to just Xiaflex.  So the above statement has some validity-yet they could have switched to Xiaflex only because it is the only FDA approved which their malpractice insurance may have demanded they do Xiaflex only.  However, I think Dr. Levine did or does Verapamil and Xiaflex.  However, someone feel free to correct me here if I am wrong since I have done neither. 
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56 years old.  Westerner (Expat) living in China, Single, 4/21 start. Various natural topicals & orals, will use home ESWT machine.  05/24 started TCM with TCM herbs acupuncture.  06/02/21- Restorex, also noticed slight dorsal curve late 06/21

Sanabo

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Re: Verapamil help with hourglass?
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2021, 08:14:04 AM »

My doc says it is his first line treatment - cheaper and less risk - and that he won't do xiaflex unless it is really bad and verapamil fails

The NP he works with says they do 5 a week, more Peyronies guys then we know, and that it helps with pain especially.

I need to get rid of the bottleneck. It is affecting my erections. My glans doesn't get as filled as it used to.

I bought a PMP but I'm araid to use bc I am in pain

Verapamil studies I've read look pretty encouraging
Logged
42, acute, began 2/21
15 degree curve left, 10 up, plaque below glans, increasingly softer erections and lowered libido
Carnitine, ALA, CoQ10, fish oil, magnesium, arginine, Cialis daily.
Starting traction with PMP

AverageBloke

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Re: Verapamil help with hourglass?
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2021, 05:19:32 PM »

Hi Sanabo,

I’m going to warn you again out of courtesy because I do not want you to make the same mistake I made. If you search ‘verapamil’ in the search bar, I suggest you read all the members experiences. You will find that members had no effect or got worse.

My doctor is a peyronies specialist and he said that 70% of his patients improve with verapamil, it can stop progression etc…. But that is complete BS. I do not believe the studies either.

My personal experience: I had 5 verapamil injections for a 30 degree dorsal and 30 degree curve to the right. Each injection caused more indentations, penis thinning and put me back into the acute stage.

Your curve is only mild, I would not inject anything. I would take pentox & tadalafil, let the pain and changes stabilise. Then implement traction or VED.

Senior members like Hawk & Old Man who have dealt with peyronies for years and years also recommend against verapamil.

Just my 2 cents…

Logged
22 Years Old.
Multiple plaques. 30 Degrees Dorsal and 30 Degrees Right.

Current Treatments:
- Pentox 400mg x2 daily
- Cialis 5mg at night
- Ubiquinol 150mg x1 daily
- Vitamin E x1 daily
- Acetyl l-carnitine 2g
- Diclofenac gel for pain when needed

Benraycamp0

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Re: Verapamil help with hourglass?
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2021, 05:53:01 PM »

Just saying that Dr. Levine still actively uses Verapamil when it makes sense. I’m not saying that it makes sense in your case, but Levine does still see results with Verapamil and traction.
Logged
26 years old. 20 degree upward curve with slight clockwise twist. Symptoms onset Dec 20.
Dr. Levine says it's not Peyronie's Disease but a slow healing wound. Saw him Mar 21 and May 21.
Traction (PMP) and supplements per Dr. Levine's recommendation.

Sanabo

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Re: Verapamil help with hourglass?
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2021, 09:23:51 PM »

Alright.  I'm going to take your advice and stay away from it. I just started taking Pentox and I think it is helping. My penis feels way better lately.
Logged
42, acute, began 2/21
15 degree curve left, 10 up, plaque below glans, increasingly softer erections and lowered libido
Carnitine, ALA, CoQ10, fish oil, magnesium, arginine, Cialis daily.
Starting traction with PMP

Bill2020

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Re: Verapamil help with hourglass?
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2021, 06:56:43 PM »

Averagebloke,

Could you please tell me who your doctor is (the Peyronies specialist)?
Logged
*45 y.o.
*25° lateral curve
*Lost about 2cm in length and some girth
*2 sessions of PRP - made things slightly worse
*Currently taking Tamoxifen(low dose), L-Carnitine, COQ10, Vitamin E, Cialis (daily 5mg) and TRT

FlatteningTheCurve

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Re: Verapamil help with hourglass?
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2021, 05:29:52 AM »

So I think there are a few things to address here:

AverageBloke - you clearly had a very bad result of your Verapamil-treatment. That is terrible and I do not wish that upon anyone. Obviously, when you take a step to undergo an invasive treatment such as that to address an already frustrating condition such as Peyronies Disease, ending up worse than before is beyond imaginable.

That said, I do not agree with what you are saying about not trusting scientific studies, that a lot of people that have posted about Verapamil on the forum had negative effects and that a lot of people recommend not using it.

Scientific studies drive the development of all drugs, including medical treatments for Peyronies Disease. Verapamil has been around since the early 1980's. If the scientific studies are bogus and it keeps hurting a majority of the patients, then why is it still around? Why do Peyronies Disease specialists suggest it as a treatment for Peyronies Disease?

Comments made by the members of this forum can be a useful source of information, but I would not treat it as scientific evidence comparable to, say, a journal article. That is, if 8/10 people on this forum posts that Verapamil made their condition worse, does that mean that 80% of all Verapamil patients actually end up worse than before?

For example, this scientific study (https://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ben/iadt/2013/00000012/00000006/art00005) took place over 18 months and featured 41 patients that underwent Verapamil injections along with antioxidants, propolis and diclofenac and 41 who choose not to undergo any medical treatment. These were the results:

"In group A (treatment group), after treatment of 6 and 18 months, the change in plaque volume consisted in volume reduction= - 47.6% and -73.6% respectively, while in group B (control group), the change consisted of an increase in plaque volume= +55.7% and +118.7% respectively (p=0.000). In group A, after treatment of 6 and 18 months, improvement of curvature occurred in 76.3% and 81.5% of the cases respectively, while in group B it occurred in 2.7% and 8.1%, respectively (p<0.0001)."

This is just to provide some counter evidence, I do not think Verapamil is inherently evil to all patients and we have to look at other factors instead, such as the doctor who administrates it or how it reacts with other medications or individual conditions.

Sanabo - I do however agree with AverageBloke in that if your curvature is not over 50-60 degrees, then I would try a lot of non-invasive forms of treatment before opting for injections. It is risky to undergo any invasive treatment and should probably not be a first resort. You can come a long way with Coq-10, Pentox, Tadalafil, L-arginine combined with VED, light manual stretching and traction. If your penis feels better lately after taking Pentox, then I would hold off injections. If you have tried other forms of treatment and would later feel like you have exhausted your options, then that is another matter.
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Early 30s, diagnosed with Peyronies in 2017 after trauma during sex. Upward curvature, currently multiple plaques. Restorex, VED, 5mg Cialis, Pentox, L-arginine, Coq10, Bio -Pycnogenol, Propolis
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