traction positioning

[chefcasey]

Well I had my appt. with dr. Levine yesterday and all seems optimistic.  The ultrasound(which was uncomfortable to say the least), showed minimal scarring, no plaque, and excellent bloodflow.  Dr. Levine also said I was able to maintain pretty good elasticity too.  So he gave me a script for pentox and said I should think about a traction device and that I would benefit from it. So I ordered one from x4labs.

My question is: Is there any validity to wearing the device in certain positions to concentrate it on the scarred areas?  My scarring is mostly on the ventral side, so it would seem to make sense to wear it in the up position to stretch the ventral side more.  Or perhaps it doesn't matter since the stretch will hit the point of most resistance (where the scar tissue is) so it wouldn't matter?

please let me know what you guys think if you have experience with it.

[tmwstw]

If you buy the x4 Labs, dont buy the Peyronie version. I had it, it's basically the same as the standard version plus 1000 IU Vitamin E. If i remember correctly, you have some hourglassing deformity too right? If that's the case, the extender itself will not help much.
I have a few questions regarding your ultrasound result.
1. I had a similar result with my ultrasound: scarring with no plaque, good elasticity. i asked my uro why is this Peyronie and i dont have abnormal plaque? He insists i have Peyronie but the plaque is within the normality range ( I still dont get it). What did dr. Levine comment on this Peyronie with no plaque thing?
2. My blood flow were strong enough on both sides, but it was uneven, my leftside is 3 times stronger than my right side .. indicating there might be some venous leakage. Did you have this too or no?
I followed his 6 months Vitamin E treatment, unfortunately with no improve so i went ahead for surgery. I had the Plication procedure. If you have hourglass deformity and will consider surgery in the future. I highly suggest against Plication because it will make your willy less bend but leave the hourglassing unfixed.
For now, I wish you do well with oral treatments and dont spend extra money for the X4 Peyronie, It's a good device but the standard is enough. Hope you can share some info on the ultrasound result, my 1st doc was a general Uro and i believe he doesn't have the knowledge of an expert like dr. Levine.

[tmwstw]

P.S: As for the positioning, you'll feel stretching at full force while pointing the device down. I personally feel nothing when i position the device up. If you're stretching pass your erect length it doesn't matter which way you point, you'll feel the stretch. Hope this helps.

[MikeSmith0]

My plaque is in a semi-circle, so traction seems to actually benefit more when it is pointed up.  This was strange to me (I figured down would work better) but up really seemed to work more for some reason (I could stretch it more the next day, erections were a little stronger, etc.).  I always try to do about 50/50 up and down.  I think you just have to experiment with it.  Do it 1 day up and 1 day down...see what happens.

Actually - rereading your post... the key thing you said is that you had minimal scarring and NO plaque - so in your case, I think you can do it in either direction.  I havent really heard of many who have Peyronies Disease with no plaque...did you mean you had no calcification?  

[tmwstw]

My ultra sound literally says "no abnormal plaque", my uro still insists it's Peyronie and put me on Vitamin E.

[chefcasey]

tmwstw-

When I went for the ultrasound, the machine they use amplifies the sound of your bloodflow.  When they did it to me it sounded loud and even for both sides.  They said I had excellent bloodflow.  Infact it was so good, I needed 2 shots to come down from the induced erection and even then it was hard for it to go down, thank god it did I was getting nervous.  

When I looked at the machine, His nurse showed me the entire tunica of mine in every slide so I could see my areas of scarring, and suprisingly there are just little scars, but many of them running where the hourglass is.  I cannot distinguish how severe a scar looks on that machine, but Dr. Levine told me that my scarring was minimal, which is why I notice most of my deformity in the flaccid or semi erect state, and just some indentations and a minor 10 degree curve erect.  He also gave me a sensitivity test which I scored excellent on also. He told me that unless I somehow re-injure it, I would never need surgery and didn't even recommend VI's such as I've heard. He just put me on pentox, gave me the info and starting length for traction and wanted a 3 month update.  I've also started some VED as well along with all my other supplements.  I've heard traction actually works well with hourglass/waisting deformities so I'll give it a shot.

[chefcasey]

I almost forgot, also when I was talking with him he said I didn't have any plaque.  Now I assumed he meant calcified plaque, but now I'm not so sure.  He also said that I was "borderline" peyronies, and that the type of scarring I have might actually be just what he calls "a slow healing wound".  I asked him how he could tell the difference and he said that he couldn't, just that with the minimal amount of scarring and the type of scarring, and the fact that I'm 5 months in, it seems possible that it's not full blown Peyronies Disease.  Now I wish I would have brought my ultrasound I had 2 months ago just to see how different it looks(although the first one was only flaccid). So maybe it's possible that I could be in that "spontaneous resolution" category?  I hope so, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Mike-

When I was playing around with it this morning, I did notice that when I point it up, the ventral side where my scar is, is where I get most of the stretch.  When I point it downward, I feel like a get almost no stretch. I have no dorsal plaque, just the ventral semi-circle of scar.  It just sucks trying to wear the thing straight up for hours.  I notice a good all around stretch straight out, but that's not practical.  

[MikeSmith0]

chef - i think you're in a good starting position w/o much scar & damage, etc... pentox should be good for you now (inhibit any further inflammation / irregular healing) and moderate use of the traction device will help... you definitely dont want to do more damage though since it sounds like you're healing pretty well...perhaps you could consider ubiqinol and acetyl l carnitine too - these are decent supplements w/ minimal downside (and peer reviewed pubs).  sometimes i get concerned the traction causes unecessary force - and in your case, you're doing well so the worst thing would be to cause more problems.

oh yeah if you have ventral plaque - wearing it up will be better (at least in my experience too) - but yeah you cant really walk around like that.  it's definitely annoying.  but that's your best bet i think...if you even need it.  if you get any pain or additional inflammation - definitely stop though.  

im guessing you have no calcification since he didn't say you had any. he would've pointed it out on the ultrasound most likely.  and probably just thin scar tissue - so not as firm of a "nodule" or classic "plaque".  

[chefcasey]

I'm definitely hoping pentox will soften things up.  other than that I'm on:

Ubiquinol 100mg x3
larginine 1g x2
fish oil 3g
full spectrum vit. e 400iu
vit. d3-1000iu

I took ALC for the first 3 months, didn't really notice anything and the stuff is expensive...I too am worried about unecessary force from traction.  I'm worried about it getting worse, but I think a slow, steady, comfortable stretch will be ok.  I'm close to 7 inches fully erect and I havent lost any length(thank god), so I'm starting traction at about 5 1/2 like Levine thinks, and then .5 cm increases every 2 weeks.  So in that case I won't even reach my erect length for a few months.  Did you start well below your EL too Mike?

[MikeSmith0]

Did you start well below your EL too Mike?

Well, I am not doing it now cuz of the xiaflex study - but I was always longer in my stretched length than erect length.  This is common even in guys without Peyronies Disease also - but especially for me, the plaques relaly prevent the full erection... so I stretched past my erect length by a few cm...but i built up to this over time.  I started under my EL.  I probably added 3 cm over the months that I was doing it.  not as fast as he wanted but that was the best i could do.  I do think it was helping

[Ben]

I am quite experienced in traction since i've been stretching for 1 years and half with some periods off.
- stretching downward targets the proximal area of the penis (base)
- stretching  upward targets the distal area (head)

[BrooksBro]

I never could wear my FastSize upwards.  When I did, one or both testicles would slip inside the plastic base ring.  I could only wear it for the required time with it downwards.

[Brightdog]

So far I have only been able to wear the FastSize device pointing down. When I tried wearing it pointing up, I found none of my pants would accommodate it at the top! And not all my pants accommodate it pointing down, either.

I find the device badly designed - but I figure it is better than nothing!

[chefcasey]

I find that I can wear it best with loose fitting pants at almost straight out, this seems to be the most comfortable.  I guess the x4labs has a wider base than the fastsize, so holding it in this position is the best for it being even around the base.  If I wear it straight up or straight down, either the ventral or dorsal part of my shaft has to wrap around the base of the deivce, and that just seems dangerous to me.

I have some indentations that are visible flaccid.  When I use traction I can see and feel with my hands these dents being stretched out.  Kind of makes me nervous.  I wonder if I'm stretching/remolding them safely, or if I'm making them create more scare tissue.

[Ptolemy]

I've heard traction actually works well with hourglass/waisting deformities so I'll give it a shot.

I agree with you that traction is good for the hourglass deformity. It seems strange to me in that I would expect traction to impact length more than width but not for me.

I have been using the VED since February 2007 and complemented the VED with traction in January 2008. I have used traction twice, initially for 6 months at approx 4 hours/day beginning in January 2008. Traction improved the hour glass a little and improved the bend significantly from an almost 90 degree bend to under a 45 degree bend. Enough that I could enjoy sex. I began using traction again in July 2010 primarily because I felt I was losing more length. I used traction much more aggressively because I had used it before and was more familiar with what would be too much. For the 1st four months I stretched very aggressively and wore the device 6 to 8 hour every day. Since then (the past 3 months) i have worn the device about 4 hours per day. I am able to maintain the most aggressive length using the device 4 hours a day. I would say the bend is now down to the 15 - 20 degree range (and some days it seems even less that that) and the hour glass is much less significant. The girth has improved such that I can no longer use the small VED cylinder.

I will continue to use traction nights, weekends, working at home until it is not possible. Although I'm a fan of both VED and traction, I think traction is more effective at improving peyronies symptoms. The problem is, the traction process is borderline torture and a process you can only do alone. Those of you that walk around wearing the device or wear them at work amaze me.

[chefcasey]

Ptlolemy:

I've heard a lot of that from guys, even on the PE sites.  I guess it doesn't matter in what way the stretch happens because it will stretch as much laterally as well as longitudinally as it fills with blood and pushes from the inside out during an erection.  I think it was Tim that made a comment comparing it to a chinese finger trap.  As time goes on and it's stretched longitudinally, when it returns to it's normal length, it's now thicker.

It's interesting that you say that you had a 90 degree bend and hourglass prior to starting traction.  Was that the case when you were using the ved first though?  Did the ved do anything to help the curve or the hourglass?  I'm asking because I tried traction for only a couple weeks and it seemed to be causing some pain, so I've put that on hold and am just doing the ved right now.

[Ptolemy]

chefcasey,
I'm not sure what would have happened had I not tried traction. I used the VED for about a year but didn't feel like the peyronies symptoms were improving. I read about traction on this forum and decided to try it but didn't want to stop VED treatment so I used both. I never did have much pain where the plaque was growing so I was not bothered with pain around the plaque when I used the traction device. VED usage w/o traction may have reduced the bend over time but it seemed like the traction made a significant improvement over that 6 month period. I stopped traction because I had rotator cuff surgery and couldn't manage applying the traction device.

I'm very cautious about pain. For me, I'm not too worried about a little discomfort but if the pain continues I immediately stop doing whatever I think was the cause of the pain. The only issue I have with traction is the discomfort of the device where it is attached to me - especially the head of the penis - and the problem that I can only use the device at home. After 7 months of traction the 2nd time around I'm wondering if I've got about all the benefits I will get from traction. I have read here that some have gained significant benefits from using traction for over a year so I will keep using the device until I'm no longer working at home.  

[GS]

Ptolemy,

Congratulations on your significant improvement.  I think you should post in the improvement section.  Going from a 90 to a 20 degree curvature is a great improvement in my book.

I am currently just using the VED, but your improvement makes me think I should give traction a try.  I had never really considered using traction because of the time issue, but I may have to rethink it.

Again, congratulations and keep us updated.

GS

[Mike_O]

Ptolemy

Thanks for your post including details of your approach to therapy.

I am absolutely amazed that you were able to tolerate the traction device for up to 8 hours per day!

I hope you continue to see improvement.

Mike_O

[newguy]

Ptolemy - That is one of the most stunning improvements I've ever heard. It does sound like your approach was quite aggresive. I think in a general sense i'd advise people against aggressive approaches because with peyronie's a 'gungho approach' can be a bit like russian roulette. However, using a low to medium stretch for hours at a time does seem to be something that occured even within the traction studies, so maybe i'm reading too much into the word aggressive. Your dedication to this treatment does appear to have paid off in a very big way. There's not really a traction culture of the site, so we don't have many examples of those sticking with it for such a long period of time. I am currently back on traction though, and in combination with my various other treatments, I do sense positive changes.

[MikeSmith0]

thats great you had such good results... the one thing i am having a hard time w/ regarding the hourglass / dented area is that the texture / elasticity of the tunica in that area is poor.  One dr said - you can clearly feel (in the flacid state, even) that the base of my penis feels normal - and then the distal area feels firm & strange ...and cannot get fully erect in terms of girth & there's a hinge effect also...

so, in all this time that you have used traction, have you noticed any improvement in any of this - the consistency of the hourglass area or the hinge effect?  or did you not have these problems to start with?