Implants are over recommended here

[Tortão Pra Direita]

I said that cause I've seen implants being over-recommended here. It's not just about this thread. I understand its importance and I don't think it should be the last resort, as some guys suggest, but I think you (and others) should be more reasonable when suggesting one. This is a typical case where an implant recommendation pisses me off.
OP said:

As long as my mind's right I have no problem attaining and maintaining an erection and the pain I had has diminished to the extent it's become manageable. The curve makes penetration difficult and shortening definitely took away some of the fun.

As we see, he can attain and maintain an erection, and even penetrate (with some difficulties). He said he has a 30º curvature (not a severe Peyronie). It's very possible to correct it to something like 10º with VED and manual traction. My curvature went from 70º to 45º in a short time span doing traction.

I understand his age, and I think this is something that concerns even more: surgeries have risks. Low, but it has.

I see no logic in putting an implant in this case, and I'd consider it anti-ethical if any doctor does this.

 

[Hawk]

You have seen implants over-recommended here, in whose professional opinion?

What is your expertise with implants or even with Peyronies Disease or Erectile Dysfunction in general to make such a bold blanket statement?

I moved this from the introduction thread because new members are only allowed 10 posts in their introduction topic, and I did not want to clutter up the topic of a new member seeking help with junk.

My guess is you think implants are only appropriate as a last resort and only if a man has significant Erectile Dysfunction.

[TDix]

I don't think I have ever recommended an implant.  I have simply shared my journey.  What I HAVE recommended is you go see a specialist, someone who knows how to deal with this condition.  What I have done is all my own personal decisions.  Since there is no one definite solution to this condition I feel it's important to gather as much information as possible and make your own decisions.  My decisions can vary greatly from yours, but my experience should be used as a tool to come to your own conclusions  

[Hawk]

I have suggested an implant because I was dismayed at the misinformation that caused me to waste over a decade with traction, manual traction, VEDs, every oral PDE5 pill on the market, cockrings, and injections that badly damaged my dick needlessly.

I wasted a lot of: time, money, and penis length, emotional wellbeing, and years of intimacy I will never get back because of a lack of getting an implant.  

Unfortunately, those of us with implants have not posted on the "Accounts of Improvement" board.  If we did, the vast majority of improvements on this forum would be from men with implants.

I don't push it, but I think I have a moral obligation of saying, "with what I have learned, this is what I would do if I were facing your set of facts as you have laid them out."

I have made dozens of posts discouraging implants where I felt it was likely counterindicated (teens, people who could have intercourse, people who seemed to have body dysmorphia, etc.). But once you have been educated, the forum's entire point is to share that education.  Interestingly, the only people on the forum who speak against implants are those who have absolutely zero experience with them.  They speak from a position of ignorance and prejudice.  

[Roddy]

I do not agree at all with the sentiments of this post - that implants are actively promoted on this site. In fact, I would categorically say the opposite. I think members on this 'implant' forum are good at listening and am struggling to recall a case where bad advice was handed out by a one who had been implanted, suggesting someone to get an implant where there appeared no need. I think we are very careful to always point a member or guest to the correct medical professionals. My case in point is the following from a reply to a poster in a separate post where I said

"For the avoidance of doubt, by the way, I'm not suggesting you speak to a surgeon about the possibility of an implant - not at all, I'm suggesting you seek the best possible surgeon and have a consultation where they will then decide your best course of action."

In this case, in my opinion, it was not appropriate to suggest the poster seek an implant but to engage with an industry-leading surgeon.

So here is evidence to the contrary of what this poster in this chat is suggesting.

[Hawk]

Exactly Roddy.  I posted a similar comment on the same topic.

[Tortão Pra Direita]

You have seen implants over-recommended here, in whose professional opinion?

If you are going to use this fallacy of "professional opinion", I can use it too. I can say you are no professional to recommend an implant, so let's cut this out of question.

What I've said is my opinion, and I can explain. I made this reply with this case in mind: https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php?topic=15123.0
The man had no ED and had light Peyronie (30º curvature). His main complaint was the curvature is making penetration difficult. You recommended this man an implant right away. I understand you had an excellent outcome from your surgery, but your case is another case. This man can straighten his curvature to something like 10º with a few months of VED and manual traction.

If he had a more severe case (let's say, presenting buckling, narrowing) and he had tried some things with no result then I'd say your recommendation was reasonable.

I've seen forum members recommending an implant for cases like that. This is why I made this statement. Light Peyronie with no ED is not a case for an implant. This is my opinion (but I bet this is the opinion of the majority of urologists).

What is your expertise with implants or even with Peyronies Disease or Erectile Dysfunction in general to make such a bold blanket statement?

I'm a patient, like you. And I've read a lot, but, of course, I don't understand everything about this disease.

My guess is you think implants are only appropriate as a last resort and only if a man has significant Erectile Dysfunction.

Wrong. I've said many times (you can check my post history) that implants are not solely for ED. It can give a penis rigidity, stabilize the progression of curvature, repair buckling, etc. We see cases here in the forum of men that had no ED and had to put an implant. And, guess what... I think this can be my case. I have an appointment in March with a Peyronie surgeon, so let's see what he recommends to me.

[Hawk]

I ask by whose professional opinion.  That did not suggest I am a professional, and you are not.  Once again, you jumped to false conclusions. Instead, it suggested I could quote leading professionals who would agree that such a case is very valid to be evaluated for an implant.  I asked you if you had any professional sources to counter that or were you expressing opinions based on nothing.

Also, you are not being honest because that link you reference is not why you said the forum over recommends implants.  You said ON THAT LINK that the forum over-recommends implants, meaning it was something done before the conversation at hand.  Either that or you misspoke.  

You suggested what he should NOT do but suggested nothing he should do beyond the VED and traction that I already suggested.  So a new member comes here looking for advice, and you offer nothing other than to speak up on an area in which you have zero experience and give him fewer options than he had been given.  In essence, you used up his introduction topic for nothing except to tell him he had no options.  Most men come here to act on their Peyronies Disease, not just to hear themselves talk.

If a man in his 70th year of life with strong evidence of a genetic predisposition for Peyronies Disease shows up on the forum and says; I have a deformity that makes sex difficult and no longer fun.  I am losing size, and while I usually have functional erections, there are times I don't (probably because of my stress and concern) if that man tries a VED and Traction as he prepares to see a surgeon.  Just what would you suggest that he do if the VED and Traction do not work???  Would you suggest injections of Xyiflex, grafting surgery, voodoo.  Keep in mind his age.  Realistically he has between zero and 10 years to find a solution with a high chance of success, implement that solution, and then use that solution.  If a VED and Traction do not work, you have NOTHING to offer this man without an implant.  Those are the facts.

[Tortão Pra Direita]

I asked you if you had any professional sources to counter that or were you expressing opinions based on nothing.

If it matters, my own urologist and some videos of professionals on Youtube. They usually recommend some things to try before going for any surgery.

Also, you are not being honest because that link you reference is not why you said the forum over recommends implants.  You said ON THAT LINK that the forum over-recommends implants, meaning it was something done before the conversation at hand.  Either that or you misspoke.  

I did not make this thread here, you removed my reply in that intro thread, so I had to link it for better context clarification.
I've seen in this forum implants being recommended for light Peyronie's cases, but let's be honest, I'm not gonna waste 30 minutes or more trying to find each reply. I think you (or another moderator) have seen the same complaint before (not from me).

You suggested what he should NOT do but suggested nothing he should do beyond the VED and traction that I already suggested.

Cmon, Hawk. I'm not trying to be a dick or stubborn. You recommended VED and traction after you talked about the implant. And they were recommended for a preparation pre-surgery.

"Honestly, being new to the forum and Peyronies Disease, my next statement will likely shock you, but at your age, I would opt for a 1 hr outpatient surgery that will have your penis straight and no concerns about Erectile Dysfunction now or in the future.  I would get a 3 piece inflatable implant from a very highly rated, high volume surgeon. "

In my view, this is a right away recommendation for an implant.
Maybe I got your idea wrong, maybe you misspoke, I don't know, but your suggestion didn't seem the best in my view.  

[Hawk]

Clearly, we can only be dealing with someone dishonestly trying to prank the forum.  The only other explanation is that you have problems reading and capturing thoughts. I made it clear in two posts on that topic.  Any English reader can see that I suggested the VED/traction to restore the lost size and see if it worked.  I said, "Maybe that will give acceptable results" but he would likely find that it would not.  I should not have to explain that NO ONE would prep for surgery with traction/VED, see a correction or their deformity, and still go ahead with surgery.  What leading surgeon would operate on a fully functional penis? I cannot believe I am even explaining something so obvious and asinine.    

I missed what your recommendation is for him if the VED/Traction does not work.   OH, I see you don't have any recommendation except to snipe at the suggestions of others which seems to be your entire M.O.  You clearly have no understanding of implants or Peyronies Disease, or you are just enjoying cluttering up the forum.

Be honest enough to admit now, exactly what is your recommendation to a 70-yr-old man with an underlying genetic predisposition for Peyronies Disease if a VED and Traction do not work. .  If you can not answer that simple question, don't post again on this topic.  

[TDix]

Ok I'll bite.  I had a 30 degree bend 3 years ago.  Implant was not offered, but Xiaflex was.  What happened?  Massive hematomas and eventually a fracture.  This progresses my curve to a 50 degree bend.  Next option?  Go to another doctor, a specialist.  Still an implant was not offered, but due to severe calcified scar tissue surgery was recommended, especially at my age.  This surgery corrected the curve, but the graft site never returned to normal rigidity.  Still, an implant was not offered.  We tried the pills, didn't work.  Tried Intraurethral gel, didn't work.  Trimix injections, didn't work.  Mind you, all these meds come from a compounding pharmacy, and are NOT cheap.  Finally, after exhausting all these options, an implant was recommended.  Had I went straight to implant it would have saved me a lot of time and money, but I agreed with my doctor to exhaust all other options first.  That was MY decision.  If I pushed for an implant earlier, I could have but chose not to.  Others my want to forgo all the other crap I did and just get a. Implant, their choice.  Is that over recommending an implant?  I don't think so, but in the end here I am implanted.  Most others here also exhaust all options, and guess what....implanted.  Yes, VED and traction helps some regain a straighter penis, but as most here know it takes a lot of time and dedication to regain a few degrees.  And then what?  Just stop and hope it doesn't progress again?  That will always be in your head.  Just my 2 cents

[Hawk]

TDix,

While your point exactly reinforces the facts, our point is lost on Tortão Pra Direita.  You are arguing science, logic, and real-world case study against an uninformed feeling.

That feeling says that for some unstated reason, a man has some obligation to put his only penis at risk and to suffer from other treatments that are known to be far less successful, far more costly, and require a far longer investment of time.   Why? Because that is how he feels.  He heard a cliche' somewhere that an implant should be a last resort and just parrots it with no thought to explain it.  He lists no disadvantages to a 70-year-old man having a fully functional implant that restored size and straightened his penis. He just feels "there MUST be some disadvantage."  We can't have that old guy armed with the penis of an 18-year-old and having sex in 3 weeks and amazing his lady.

To suggest less satisfactory courses other than a few prep months of VED and traction to a 70-year-old man is not just ignorant.  It is cruel and without compassion.  Who wants to spend their last years getting pounded with Xiaflex, nursing a swollen dick for months while their bank account is drained, only to be told, "I'm sorry, you are one of those who got worse with treatment.  Maybe you should wear traction 6 hours a day for a few more years and see what happens this time around".  It is a barbaric outrage, especially in an instance like the one in question.

[SW01]

I saw 4 urologists. Each of those after my peyronies was evident. They discussed nothing else. You should get a titan. Not one advocated xiaflex. Not one. When I mentioned it they said if I wanted they could do it but I might want to decide if I wanted to go through that. It can cause trauma.

We all all get an opinion for sure. I am sure if I saw 4 urologists who said I should get an implant to deal with peyronies. You can find 4 who would suggest any other options.

My one real fact is. The titan fixed all my issues. Period. No ifs and or butts. No more nothing. No more curve. No more hourglass. Stay up if I pull out and switch positions. Stop cuddle. Keep going. Go some more. Stop for a bit. Deflate or not. Go for some more. Orgasm. Continue to go on until she is worn out. Just like old times.

You are more than welcome to deal with ed and peyronies in any form. Me I just want to have sex when we choose to for as long as we choose to.

Not sure to many other options are like that.  

[Noway]

implants are recommended  on this forum because all of the pills that are out there dont work like cialis,viagra,levitra they are a big money scam and traction and ved is very time consuming and expensive  for the average person. so if you got severe ed then that is the only thing that works and untill more men start going to there doctors and are not afraid of talking about there penis so they actually do something about it.

[Stepone]

Lol,
This is the link to discuss implants.
If you want to discuss other issues, there are other links.
It's your choice.
But I went to 5 urologists, had surgery to fix a thinning, bent, broken, leaking penis.
Not one! Discussed an implant.
I wish they had.
The only way I found about implants was to find this site.
I wished I had found this site in 2014 and I would not have suffered from needless surgery and damaging years of bad sex.