Myofascial release

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mateo

How many of you, in addition to your Peyronies Disease symptoms, have pain, tightness, hypersensitivity, or similar maladies in your hips, thigh muscles, knees, glutes, or abdomen?

I'm curious about this, since I've had life-changing success with a kind of therapeutic pressure called myofascial release (MFR for short). MFR involves sustained pressure or torsion on a soft, fibrous tissue called fascia. Fascia is a membrane of connective tissue that envelopes muscles, internal organs, blood vessels, and nerves. Trauma, chronic inflammation, surgery, and other factors can cause the fascia to become thick and inflexible.

By now you might be thinking that this sounds a lot like Peyronies Disease. I don't know how, or even if, MFR can be applied to the penis directly, but I have had MFR done on adjacent tissue, and the results are very encouraging, and have indeed improved my erections (a lot).

From my limited layperson's perspective, this is how it works: If a muscle needs MFR treatment, you'll be able to find one or more spots on your body that are hypersensitive to pressure. It hurts; sometimes it really hurts. In passing, it's easy to dismiss this as a bruise you don't remember getting, or something innocuous. It is not innocuous. And the solution is to do the most counterintuitive thing: Apply pressure to the spot where it hurts the most. Specialists can sometimes do this in a way that doesn't hurt as much, but if you're in a bad state, it will hurt. (We're men; we can handle it.) The way I learned it is to continue applying pressure until the pain diminishes by about 75%. It's common to have to treat several spots in a particular area. A few seconds after you stop, it's possible that you'll feel a huge wave of emotion, and that's normal. I won't go into the reasons for this here and now, but the emotional release is dramatic and automatic. You might laugh, sob, or both; or you might not experience anything like that. But if you do, you'll feel really great afterward, since you'll be relieved of a huge burden. You won't fix everything in one day, but if you know what you're doing, or have someone who does, you will make steady, reliable progress.

I had the biggest improvement in erection quality after my MFR specialist worked on my IT band (the iliotibial band) on the outer side of each thigh. But that was after she had already worked on my psoas muscles (in the abdomen) and glutes. I had also done MFR at home on my perineum and groin. Eliminating the fascial pain has allowed me to start using a traction device, so now that's also helping a great deal. (More on that in another post.)

I still don't fully understand what causes the fibrosis of the fascia in the first place, but I now consider the treatment to be vitally important knowledge for a person to have as a matter of normal health maintenance.

MFR is also supposed to help lymph drainage. For the past few years, I've had a violaceous polyp or some such thing on my urinary meatus, and supposedly these things can be caused by inadequate lymph drainage. But my polyp (assuming that's what it is) fluctuates in size and appearance quite a bit, so it's hard to tell whether any short-term treatment is working.

DannyOcean

Hey mateo. Thanks a TON for posting this. Over the last year I've started to draw some connections between some physiological things I've noticed and my Peyronies Disease. For instance, I tend to hold a lot of tension in my groin, perineum and buttocks. I probably only realized that a year ago or so (I'm 34) for the first time. I've become more conscious of that and that helps but I still do "clench up" there quite a bit.

A while back I came across Chronic Pelvic Pain Syndrome (CPPS) and started thinking that maybe there's a connection between CPPS and Peyronies Disease. Specifically it seems as if, at least in my case, the clenching up of muscles in this area has reduced the amount of blood flow. I noticed that, especially when stressed, my penis does not hang as full flaccidly and it almost feels "cold" in that region of the body (both seem to be signs of reduced circulation?). Although I don't have pelvic pain, in reading through the literature on CPPS it seems like it might be something I'm en route to having if I continue to clench these muscles habitually.

So I do think there is something here and I've even explored receiving massage (non-sexual) in this region although that seems tough because most massage therapists wouldn't "go there".  So on this front I have a few questions for you:

#1 - Where did you go to have MFR done?

#2 - How did you know that you needed to have MFR done on your IT band? Was this something that your specialist figured out?

#3 - Did insurance cover the cost of MFR?

Thanks in advance for any help here and I'm happy to share what I learn on CPPS front as I increasingly feel there is a connection of some sort.

mateo

Hey Danny,

I intended to wait until my insurance claim is complete before replying, but reconsidered since that might take awhile.

I think your observations about CPPS are important. I read a bit about it since you mentioned it, but I still know too little to wager a guess as to whether it might be helped by MFR.

Dr. Laurence Levine suggested MFR and PT for my Peyronie's symptoms after examining me and conducting an ultrasound. He found no plaque; tissue looked healthy, but the deformity was obvious and the pain was bad. Of the four urologists I've seen, Levine is the only one who did a thorough exam. So I traveled to Arizona to receive four hours of MFR per day for six days, and I now have major improvement in sexual function, pain, and curvature. I want to go back and finish the physical therapy as soon as possible; six days was the most time away I could manage. I know I need more pelvic-floor work, and my experience gives me hope for full recovery (probably aided by traction). Meanwhile, one of the PTs taught me some exercises to do at home.

To address your questions:

1. Where did you go to have MFR done?

For several months, most of my MFR was in Glendale, California. Three different LMTs treated me, and I made a lot of progress. However, my most important and productive MFR treatments were with two physical therapists in Sedona, Arizona: Lori Zeltwanger of Advanced Release Therapy, and Christina Matsuoka of Matsuoka MFR & Physical Therapy. They are both world-class MFR experts, and superb physical therapists. Matsuoka has special expertise in the pelvic floor. My primary MFR therapist in Glendale recommended them.

2. How did you know that you needed to have MFR done on your IT band? Was this something that your specialist figured out?

Yes, and my chiropractor occasionally suggested specific muscles and fascia layers for MFR treatment after examining me. But the IT band tension was only a contributing factor. Numerous muscles and fascia layers were involved, and some of them weren't adjacent to the pelvis. But for the Peyronie's disease symptoms, I think a great deal of the relief and improvement came from work on my pelvic floor, hip adductor muscles, and abdomen.

3. Did insurance cover the cost of MFR?

My group policy specifically mentions MFR as a form of physical therapy, but of course there are conditions for reimbursement (which I seem to meet). I haven't submitted a claim yet. For a while I paid for MFR with a Flexible Spending Account (FSA). I think it's reasonable for me to expect some reimbursement at least for my recent physical therapy, because my condition was worsening and a urologist wrote me a prescription for physical therapy, specifically mentioning the pelvic floor. I didn't even have to ask about it; he suggested it based on his exam (including the ultrasound), the severity of my pain, and my medical history.

Fred22

The groundbreaking research on this subject is being done at Stanford University Department of Urology.  They've published a book on the subject that you're probably familiar with, since you mention CPPS.  In case you haven't, the book is "A Headache in the Pelvis" by David Wise, Ph.D and Rodney Anderson, M.D.

crashbandit

Hi mateo,

This is very interesting stuff you are doing. I am expecially interested because I too have no plaque. I am experiencing pain only when flaccid and flaccid twisting, expecially after intercourse. Here's another thread that discusses myofascia:

https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,45.0.html

May I ask you a couple questions? ok good:)

1. How did the therapists work on you? I had KMI Structural Integration, a fancy phrase for myofascia release, but wasn't focusing at all on Peyronies Disease and just on lower back/sacroiliac joint problems. The lady would have me perform certain muscle movments while she pushed on my muscles. Is this similar to you?

2. What was the cause of your Peyronies Disease? Any trauma or just came on suddenly like mine did? I think I may have a chronic inflammatory response in my body as well. This myofascia scarring you refered to at the opening of this thread, how can myofascia release help this condition you think? Are some people more susceptible to this myofascia scarring? I'm thinking you will say yes and I believe I am one of these people. All my health issues have lead me to believe this.

3. Do you think you are susceptible to myofascia scarring? If so, and you don't mind me asking, is there other health issues you have that seem to coincide with this increased inflammatory response someone may have? Also, have you been trying to find the root of a possible over active immune response you may have? I think Solving ones autoimmune problem, or greatly limiting it (which is equally as good) is like striking gold.



Thank you very much for starting this great thread:thumbsup:
Cheers

mateo

crashbandit,

1. How did the therapists work on you? I had KMI Structural Integration, a fancy phrase for myofascia release, but wasn't focusing at all on Peyronies Disease and just on lower back/sacroiliac joint problems. The lady would have me perform certain muscle movments while she pushed on my muscles. Is this similar to you?

In one type of MFR, the therapist asks the patient to assume a position, and then helps them to relax the muscles while she applies pressure to a trigger point. In another type, called myofascial unwinding, you move around to feel where your body needs to stretch, and then contort to accentuate the stretch; you hold the stretch until the trigger point releases. Some of the most intense MFR sessions involve a combination of these two techniques. Structural integration is very similar to the first type. I don't know about the differences between the various structural integration schools, but my understanding of KMI is that they blend Ida Rolf's SI techniques with John Barnes' MFR approach.

2. What was the cause of your Peyronies Disease? Any trauma or just came on suddenly like mine did? I think I may have a chronic inflammatory response in my body as well. This myofascia scarring you refered to at the opening of this thread, how can myofascia release help this condition you think? Are some people more susceptible to this myofascia scarring? I'm thinking you will say yes and I believe I am one of these people. All my health issues have lead me to believe this.

It was trauma. I was getting intimate with a girl, but we still had our clothes on. She leaned against my erection, it hurt, and the next morning I had an indentation and a lateral bend about 1.75" (4.5 cm) from the base. My length and girth were reduced; the shaft was narrowest near the base. After seeing Gelbard (whom I don't recommend), Levine, and two other urologists, I still don't even know whether I have a scar.

Since the MFR treatments, my shaft is about the same thickness above and below the injury, and the dent is very shallow now. Curvature improved by a few degrees. My ejaculations and urine streams are also stronger; before, I was hardly able to "push" at all. My penis still feels like it's being pulled down on one side. My physical therapy is still incomplete, but I probably won't be able to get the time off work until December or January. I still have chronic tension in several places, including the pelvic floor, left hamstring, and left hip adductor muscle (I pulled this muscle about a year before the penile trauma).

3. Do you think you are susceptible to myofascia scarring? If so, and you don't mind me asking, is there other health issues you have that seem to coincide with this increased inflammatory response someone may have? Also, have you been trying to find the root of a possible over active immune response you may have? I think Solving ones autoimmune problem, or greatly limiting it (which is equally as good) is like striking gold.

Actually, the scar doesn't form in the fascia; the fascia becomes sticky and impliable. But inflexible fascia can restrict soft tissue and organs enough not only to inhibit proper function, and to start a cascade of dysfunction. And yes, I definitely have other issues that are related, and the immune system is central to these problems.

Healthy fascia is flexible. Trauma, inflammation, emotional stress, and physical strain (such as from poor posture) are some of the causes of fascial tightening and fibrosis. The tightening and fibrosis restricts soft tissue movement and elasticity. Also, stress increases inflammation.

When the penile injury happened, my diet was poor and my stress level was high. A few years later, I started showing signs of adrenal insufficiency, which got worse and worse. A doctor referred me for blood tests, which confirmed the adrenal problem. When the adrenals underperform, lots of symptoms emerge, including new allergic reactions. Eating allergenic foods puts even more stress on the adrenals. So I got tests for food allergies, too, and changed my diet. After I did that, the inflammation stopped. Not just the penile inflammation, but in my joints, in my digestive tract, and in my ankle (which I'd sprained two years after the penile trauma).

My adrenal glands still haven't recovered entirely. My doctor has me on (among other things) human growth hormone to boost my immunity, and various steroid hormones to take the load off the adrenals: testosterone cream, pregnenolone tablets, progesterone cream, and vegetable-derived cortisol tablets (Isocort).

Cortisol is interesting; it tells your immune system to turn off inflammation. But this can also be a problem. If your body thinks it needs to make cortisol really often, then that means its suppressing your immune response on a regular basis (in my case, every day). The cortisol response can result from either emotional or physical stress—even if it's just pushing yourself too hard at the gym.

Today's Dietician published a good, evidence-based overview about some of this a couple of years ago. Search Google for "Cortisol — Its Role in Stress, Inflammation, and Indications for Diet Therapy".

Cortisol causes oxidative stress if you don't have an adequate intake of the right B vitamins, or if your body has a problem assimilating those vitamins. Most research suggests that oxidative stress causes premature aging. This is a major way that emotional stress (which leads to increased cortisol) causes permature aging. I take antioxidants like vitamin C and glutathione to help with this, but I feel like it's an uphill battle.

The best doctors I consulted explained that chronic inflammation is rarely limited to just one part of the body. Mark Hyman's book The Five Forces of Wellness explains this very well.

james1947

Hi Mateo
In your last post you have mentioned you will continue the treatment in December or January.
You have some update for the forum?
Thanks
James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Hacker4u

I am almost cured my doing myofacial release therapy. Extemely painful and pot helps by increasing blood flow.  

Davomex

Hi all,
I was really interested to see this thread as I have been going to see a MFT for a few years now, and he really helped alleviate chronic pain in my knees, and neck.
I didn't imagine that he might be able to help me for Peyronies. Does anyone have any advice on specific areas that I should ask him to focus on? (I suspect he may not have treated for Peyronies before).
Many thanks
D
Noticed symptoms in January 2020, got diagnosis in February 2020, starting off with Cialis and VED.

hope794

Wow. I can't figure out why this post has been ignored so much! Can someone clarify this? Did anyone try this guy's approach?
26 yo from Italy.
Peyronie's since abt 2014
Abt 20-25° bend, w/ a moderate twist to the left
ED for 4 years and getting worse
From pornstar-like to moderately depressed - still fighting for a solution.