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[Mr I J Crossley]

I would like to request a top level discussion area related to gay issues.

I realise i can write or reply to any topic on here, but that doesn't mean it will reach my "target" audience.

We have a top level subject for women, but not for Gay individuals.

I'd like to talk about sex after having an implant, but don't feel it appropriate in any of the other groups.

Once created it may end up being the least used topic on the site, but at least it will be there.

Ian.

[Amsterdamdude]

Sounds like a good idea Ian, I kind of miss this here too

[Mr I J Crossley]

Hi folks,

Is there any formal way to find out if a suggestion made here is going to be considered or if it has been dismissed?

Ian.

[Anton36]

I think no differences between gay or hetero. There is no different treatment only for gays. Enemy is the same we trying to overtake this enemy together. Наша Победа!

[TonySa]

It’s not that LGBTQ folks need different treatments. It’s that our sexual relationships have different factors w same sex vs opposite sex partners, that we are often treated differently by doctors; and the impact to our families and communities is all to often accompanied by stigmatization and discrimination.  All too often on this forum there are non-welcoming comments from one assuming everyone has a woman as a partner to downright biased statements being made.  I’m sorry but the latter are homophobic comments-I’ve gotten slack for putting that out there!  So many see that and will not even weigh in on their trues experiences and concerns.  It’s just about having a safe place to discuss any unique issues.  It’s not anti-straight.  All would be welcome to read it.  I’m holding out hope the leaders of this forum will take this inclusionary action to add a LGBTQ board even if they can’t understand the need.  Enough people have inquired over the years to support the need.  I really appreciate all the great work that Hawk and others have put in over the years!  Tony (gay male, with husband now for 36 years).

[Mr I J Crossley]

I knew there would be pros and cons about my request.

For exampke, I want to discuss about both sides that engaged in anal sex, and I'd find it difficult to find a suitable genetic place to discuss that.

That will be my sex life after any implant so io like to be able to talk about it beforehand.I

Ian.

[Hawk]

I am into trimming and stream lining the forum not expanding it.  I get regular input from users that the forum is too complex making it difficult to navigate.  Anal sex and oral sex and penies are pretty universal.  This is not a forum for discussing sexuality except as peripheral to fixing a penis.  Feel free to make a topic with whatever heading you choose in one of the many boards as long as it relates to the subject of that particular board.

[TonySa]

Sorry Mr I J Crossley, it’s not going to happen regardless of how beneficial it would be.  This is Hawk’s forum and he has his rationale.  He’s done great work for men with Erectile Dysfunction and Peyronies Disease and I guess we should be grateful for that.  Maybe a Reddit forum could be created as a specialty topic?  If that were to happen, I think it’d be crucial to provide links to this invaluable resource of course.

[redbullmaster]

There is a Erectile Dysfunction/Gay Board on FT, which may help some members here.

[TonySa]

At least they have that...

[Hawk]

Tony,

As part of common internet etiquette please don't go too far using this forum to promote other forums.  I understand you are disappointed you did not get what you want.  Hopefully, you will deal with that in an adult fashion and be respectful of the platform you are using or move on. Don't let your disappointment make you act contrary to mature behavior.

[Hawk]

Mr Crossley, I understand that you think your suggestion is something worth considering and I agree.  You are absolutely right.  It is something definitely worthy of serious consideration.  That is precisely why it was considered long and hard, more than once. I have listened to various opinions both in open discussion and private conversations on this topic over the years.  I have pondered it along with the general forum layout for untold hours and days.

For almost 20 years of building this forum from scratch, I have seen atheists be offended by religious people and religious people be offended by atheists. I have seen forums bar women from discussing male health issues, such as the policy on FT.  I see people who dismiss monogamy as ridiculous and others who look down on those that frequent prostitutes and advocate that they should not be allowed to mention that on the forum.  The list is a mile long.  Despite that, our clear but fundamental forum rules bind this diverse membership by a show of mutual respect.  TOGETHER we have forged the largest community and information base for Peyronies Disease and Erectile Dysfunction on the internet.  We expanded our boards then contracted them slightly to cover every conceivable topic without duplicating boards or making it too confusing where to go to post or read about a topic.  Despite this, as you can see a topic or two down, some think our current forum layout is too vast and complex (a frequent complaint).

The main objective of our forum is to discuss fixing penises. Some want to use their penis for oral, anal, or vaginal sex.  Some want those things with the same sex, some with the opposite sex, and some with both sexes at the same time. Some have a goal to gain a perfect penis only for masturbation.  Some are into 70 years of monogamy, and some into orgies. Regardless, the rules are the same for everyone, and the status of every member is the same.  We have no inferior or special members here or inferior or special groups.  There is nothing one can discuss about Peyronies Disease or Erectile Dysfunction that cannot be discussed on one of the provided boards.  It is no easy feat to provide a board for every topic without having two boards that overlap and further fracture where people go to post or read on a specific subject.

If it is for safety, no one needs a safe place here for their diverse views on sexual inclination, treatments, religion, race, nationality, or any other factor.  We are brothers in a community.  The forum is a safe space for all because those that violate rules are dealt with.  I refuse to start segmenting our community and start dividing a brotherhood of 20,000 members and 3 times that many guests into segments.

The small-minded bigots who read this will find it easier to say it is because I am an old Christian. It is easier to say that than to apply rational thought and realize that the evidence shows the exact opposite. Regardless, that is the decision.  I think we both know that you will likely never come up with a post that just can't fit in a board or that, for some reason, a bisexual or heterosexual should not be allowed to see, but if you do, PM it to me for consideration.

I don't expect that if you were responsible for running a forum that I could convince you to eliminate a gay section of your forum, and you will not likely convince me of your position since I think I have evaluated every argument pro and con, so it might be as simple as two reasonable people seeing the same issue differently.

I thank you for your suggestion and hope you can at least respect my difference of opinion and my decision.

Respectfully,

Hawk
Founder/Administrator

[Mr I J Crossley]

Thank you Hawk,

Not the decision i was looking for, but at least it's a decision and no longer hanging in thin air.

Ian.

[Hawk]

Mr I J Crossley,

Tony sent me a PM on this yesterday.  I wish he had posted it here and I would have put my PM response here which goes into more detail.  I honestly have nothing but logistic and structural concerns as well as a concern of being consistent and fair to all forum members.  I don't want to start treating one group with one set of beliefs or inclination different than any other group.  I have no concerns about what same-sex men post on the forum if it is related to Peyronies Disease/Erectile Dysfunction and follows forum rules.

I am open to discuss this at length with anyone who wants to address my specific concerns.  So far the tendency seems to be to simply restate "I want it" or "It is a good idea" and ignoring every concern that has been raised. 

[TonySa]

Hi hawk, I’m happy to try to build on my PM messages I sent and actually to not request a separate sub forum which could fracture the forum as you explained and I had not considered.  So here goes:


I appreciate Hawks well thought and through explanation of his position that essentially a broken penis is just that regardless of who it’s attached to.  Therefore, there is no need to separate out topics that would apply to all regardless of ones sexual orientation.

I now understand that it would not be helpful to break off all contributions by gay men into essentially a separate forum.  Others would not benefit from their discussions and they would not benefit from other discussions. 

However, I do still think there are separate psychological coping aspects for gay men. 

Instead, May I request just a permanent thread on the psychological sub-forum be created?  Something like, “Coping considerations for Peyronies Disease and Erectile Dysfunction for men in same-sex relationships”? 

Of course it would be open to all to read and gay folks would be expected that all topics other than unique psychological coping concerns related to Peyronies Disease or Erectile Dysfunction would be posted elsewhere on the relevant forum.

I really hadn’t thought about the possible fracturing of the forum so I think it would be vital that any general topics that are not specific to ones sexual orientation would be posted elsewhere.  Such as “pros and cons of Titan vs AMS”?  The pros and cons really are not specific to any orientation.  Even if the Titan is viewed as advantageous by some to anal sex it could apply to both straight or gay men.

So, I’d like to change my request to only one specific permanent topic thread on the psychological board.  To prevent any possible splintering I’d be happy to moderate it to ensure topics that apply to all are posted in the other appropriate areas.

Also, maybe we could do this only as a test to ensure fracturing does not occur-or if it starts the ship could quickly be righted.

Most importantly I am very grateful for the years Hawk has put into maintaining a high quality forum that has improved the lives of tens of thousands of men.  I apologize as I am afraid my posts have not always reflected that.  And like Ian says, I will respect hawks decision whatever it is!

Tony

[Shane43]

Peyronies's Disease (Peyronies Disease), as it's name implies, is a "disease". Just as cancer, hyperthyroidism, or tuberculosis etc. are diseases.  Yes, Peyronies Disease involves the male sexual organ, but how is that different among heterosexual or homosexual men? I notice you left off bisexual men, and transgenders, and those in between, and others. Should we have separate threads for all possible sexual orientations for a disease that is agnostic to orientation? Or how about young men who are just beginning to have sex (of any sexual orientation) who have a long life ahead of them versus older men who have had 40+ years of great sex already. There is likely a greater difference in psychological effect between these age differences than sexual orientation.  And this "self identity" list could go on forever. This disease does not care about your sexual orientation, age, or anything else.

Any successful venture encounters "mission creep". This forum is successful, in a way. It has been around a long time, provides some good advice, but also has "creeped" (moved) into so many areas and threads, it is impossible for a new user to know where to go and what to read, excepting the pretty good "new user advice" that is here. And the "creep" that has moved into this forum is being dominated by anecdotal remedies of various drug/supplement concoctions that have little or no scientific/medical basis. I think that is a far bigger concern. And the threads go back so many years, that it is easy to just read what was thought by members 10 years ago, before new therapies and new published medical studies were available and you may never see what is the latest information, published in good peer-reviewed medical journals. I think that is a far greater issue that applies to all men with Peyronies Disease, regardless of sexual orientation.

I greatly appreciate the efforts of those who started and maintained this forum. There is some very good advice here. But it is buried in an avalanche of non-curated thoughts and opinions. Many are harmless, but distract from proper advice and health care. But a large proportion of the threads divert the readers' attention from what is known by the medical community to what someone with no medical background and with no supporting data or information "thinks".

When I have commented on here, I have tried to attach medical journal articles that support the opinion or otherwise are helpful to the body of knowledge we need to make decisions. Almost no one else does this. In fact, strong opinions are thrown out without any supporting information. This is dangerous and irresponsible.

I think this does a great disservice to the Peyronies Disease community.

And it is with that thought, that I leave this forum with thanks to those who have tried to provide a forum for education and "fellowship", but strongly suggest that you separate the forum into
1) medically supported advice and 2) anecdotal advice by non-medical individuals who want to share their story.

How you want to further organize under that umbrella is less important.

And I am not saying that the "anecdotal advice" is not worth reading or that "medical research advice" must be right. But you should differentiate between advice that has undergone rigorous medical study and advice that is based on one person's experience. The VED protocol advice from "old man" is a good example of personal experience that seems worth listening too, especially in the absence of much medical study guidance on VED use. But almost all of the personal experience advice here regarding supplements has no defensible scientific support. Yet it is presented as equal to, if not even better than, rigorous scientific studies.

Again, I think this does a great disservice to the Peyronies Disease community.

I wish you all well, with this horrible condition we all have.

Shane

[TonySa]

Hi Shane, my most recent request removed “gay” identity from the equation and solely focused on psychological impact of Erectile Dysfunction and Peyronies Disease for men in same sex relationships which can apply regardless of ones straight, bi, gay or gender identity.

I don’t agree everyone needs to reference medical journals.  VED and traction was only anecdotal until the medical profession began to take it into consideration.  Many treatments will never be studied rigorously because there is no profit in doing so such as diet and Peyronies Disease).  That said, one can search here for medical studies-and every topic has such threads.

When members go to far w unsubstantiated claims, others often quickly set the record straight.

Thxs, just my two cents worth.

[Hawk]

I am late getting back to this topic because I got busy with family visits etc.

Tony, I appreciate you trying to look at this more objectively and realizing this is not an issue of acceptance of same-sex men in full fellowship on the forum.  That kind of clears the air to actually discuss the suggestion on its merits.  Regarding your modified proposal, clearly, the easy thing to do would be to agree and do it, but I am a man who believes in a forum of rules, not freelance arbitrary decisions.  I despise that about FT. 

I struggle with what I would do if "members of faith" wanted a separate permanent topic because they see things differently? The same is true of a racial,  bi-sexual, national group, or any other division we could divide our membership into.  What can I tell those with such requests as to why gay men get any special request they don't get?  There is NOTHING equal or fair about that.

In addition to those questions, I need help seeing how your proposal is functionally any different than the topic you just posted in on the Psychological Aspects board.  You could make multiple such topics if you have something to post in them.  That has been my point from the beginning. I feel that is how the forum is set up to functionally accommodate the needs of gay men and every other group.  I don't understand what your request accomplishes.  You make a topic(s) about special perspectives that only gay men experience and post in it.  Other gay men then either see the value and post or choose to ignore it.    If there is some interest, the topic(s) stay relevant and visible, and if not, they get pushed down the board. If hundreds of gay men post things unique to those topics, it could grow into a board which is how all of our other boards naturally came to be.         

I ask Tony or others to please address my specific points in reply.  Without answers to these questions or at least telling me why my questions are not important, it leaves me unconvinced.  I will add that I actually hope you can answer my questions.  My gut feeling is I would like to do it, but I need more than that.

Thanks
Hawk

[TonySa]

Hawk, I guess my only additional feedback would be that if any special topic is consistently requested over time, that a perm sticky thread be created for it to see if it flies.  If it’s not used then I’d say no longer make it permanent “sticky”.  t.

[Hawk]

I want to thank everyone for the open discussion. The discussion warrants a brief follow-up to wrap up this topic. 

Against 20 years of forum administrative experience on multiple forums, I consented to TonySa's request for a sticky topic at the top of the psychological Aspects board.  I explained that I thought most members look past those topics and focus on the regular topics below, but if he still wanted a special topic, I decided to grant his request.  I told him to go in and create a topic with the heading of his choice, and I would pin it to the top of the board.   TonySa decided against making a topic for the top of the psychological Aspects board.  I frankly think that was a wise decision.

I want to reiterate that gays are welcome to create any topic they want on any board in the forum within the guidelines of our forum rules.  That has always been the case and continues to be so. Same-sex men have the flexibility to create new and unique topics, as do every other group and division we are inclined to segregate ourselves into.

Hawk
Founder / Administrator

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