Panic disorder and OCD- unbearable

[Logarn]

I have posted before about how I had a flaccid injury where I squished my dick a little bit, remarkably it didn't have any bruises or swelling.  Most people would probably move on right?  Well, I can't seem to.  My mind has raced to the worst possible outcomes and I'm not even really worried about peyronies but worried that my erectile tissue in the corpora cavernosa has been damaged and will have fibrosis.  At least peyronie's would be obvious symptoms and easier to diagnose.  I feel like erectile tissue damage could be occurring without me knowing.  My panic attacks are so bad that my heart beats at 120 bpm and I have physically ill and can't concentrate on anything else.  I don't even know if I have it and feel like I'm already grieving.

What kills me about this too is that people seem to say you have to wait many month before you would know.  It would be great if there were obvious symptoms I could check to know now or if if the doctors could do tests but its still been less than a month so can they even know?  I am mostly venting but any advice would be welcomed as I am not doing well.  What can I do?  Both psychologically and at the urologists?

[TonySa]

I've read all your posts and are convinced you don't have any worries re your penis. I'dseek out tele-therapy for anxiety ASAP.

[Logarn]

I've read all your posts and are convinced you don't have any worries re your penis. I'dseek out tele-therapy for anxiety ASAP.

Hello Tonysa,

May I ask why you think there is nothing wrong with my penis?  
I also finally have an appointment with a uro this week.  I'm not sure he is a peyronies specialist but is there anything he can do to rule it out this early.  It is tough to deal with a condition you may or may not have that you may not know you have for months.

I agree that psychological issues are probably the bigger concern for me at this point. I get meds from a psychiatrist but feel like it is finally time to talk with someone as well.  I think my catastrophic thinking is off the charts.  

[TonySa]

I believe I've commented but flaccid injures almost never result in Peyronie's, also you've had no symptoms.  Keep your uro appt. but def get some counseling such as cognitive behavioral therapy to change your catastrophic thinking.  

[Logarn]

Yeah that makes sense about peyronie's, but is it that true for the the fibrosis of erectile tissue as well? (thats the one that scares me)  I might have misunderstood but I thought you said my symptoms wouldn't show for like 2-6 months.

[TonySa]

I believe the same for ED, no worries.  I only said if you wanted to be absolutely positive...like 100% sure rather than 98% sure then waiting could tell you.  But your so focused on this it seems to be tearing you up.

[Logarn]

Ohh, so most likely I would have had some rough or significant symptoms already but that is just to make sure?  Are flaccid injuries generally even a cause of long term damage of erectile tissue within the corpora or am I losing it?  Apparently "severe trauma" can cause it but a severe trauma would have to have some type ofvisible bruising or swelling right?  I dont want to take up too much of your time or forum space on this but I am in a bad place right now

[TonySa]

Yes, I'd agree w that—all good signs you're good.

[bustedchubb]

Yeah, I would think that you would definitely know if you were f'd by now.  Usually starts as erectile discomfort/pain from the area where the plaque/injury is and then progresses from there.  But I would be relieved at this point that you aren't a) in pain, b) no deformity or curvature, c) all functional.  

[Hawk]

Logarn,

Lets reason together.
1. The likelihood of you injuring yourself flaccid enough to develop normal healing scar tissue in the cavernosa is extremely slim.  if you are talking about hypertropic scaring that overruns normal healthy tissue that IS Peyronies Disease whether in your tunica or cavernosa. The likelihood of that is even more slim.
2.The likelihood of your catastrophic thinking being out of control is certain
3. Is your thinking problem significant enough to harm you both emotionally and physically - the answer is clearly yes.
4. Can you immediately do something to address and improve your mental state - YES
5. Can you immediately do something to address the unlikely existence of your imagined cavernosa problem - NO
6.. should you focus on a known problem that is causing immediate harm and which is immediately treatable or on a fantasized and unlikely problem you can do little about at the moment?

I know you are wise enough to come up with the same answer as everyone else that reads this.

So what do you do.  If you have established yourself with a GOOD counselor or psychologist contact them for an in-person or tele-appointment.  If you have not already established yourself with a counselor or psychologist seek the best recommendations you can get and establish contact

In the meantime meaning today go to this site.  Familiarize yourself with the sight and start some mindful meditation. www.insighttimer.com

I think you now have a wise thought out plan.  Work it!
Best wishes!

[smashin]

Also please bare in mind that the thing which feeds ocd is the amount of time you brain is thinking about the problem. The more and more you are researching this and playing it over in your mind; the more you will create an ocd loop regarding peyronies.

If it wasn't peyronies it would be something else. If you did damage to your penis, you would very much likely realise that by now. Even if you did, the penis would in 90% of cases heal fine anyway.

Like hawk says, you need to learn to quieten the mind, and nip negative thoughts in the bud. Doctors say that ocd is essentially a problem where anxiety causes excessive thinking, and that ocd sufferers essentially have an inibility to nip negative thoughts in the bud.

The best way to do this is to calm your emotions with relaxation/mindfulness, and give your brain something else to concentrate on. Take up a hobby or do something that makes you feel good. When you get these negative thoughts you need to try and park them and LIVE WITH THE UNCERTAINTY. You cannot go though life trying to solve every imagined problem in your head, or you will just go from one thing to the next.

Quieten/relax your mind, learn to live doubt. Do this for long enough and the brain can re-learn.

Get out the house and occupy yourself. All the best.

[Logarn]

Hawk,

Thank you so much for the well thought out response.   I'm at a really low point so it means a lot!  I have a couple physical questions before I address the mental health aspect.

1. So it is considered peyronies whether there is scarring in the erectile tissues within the corpora or on the tunica and would it have erection pain/curvature?

2.  Is scarring within the cavernosa is unlikely in my situation because I didn't have bruising or because it is just rare in general from flaccid injuries?

I think I need to get out and find a counselor and not just be on meds, I'll call around and maybe even do a telehealth appointment since it is Covid times. I will also start meditating and try your link. I am willing to try anything to beat my anxiety.  You are right that this anxiety is not just taking a toll on my mental health but my physical health as well.  I can't believe how the adrenaline and cortisol can make me feel physically in pain and the obsessive panic makes it difficult to find enjoyment or concentrate on anything else.  I've also noticed that while I can wake up with erections my anxiety makes them difficult or impossible when I am in a state of panic.  I think that has also shown the impact of stress on body processes.  I have had catastrophic thinking with many parts of my body and it isn't a sustainable way to live  under that kind of stress

[Hawk]

It is unlikely that you did tissue damage to a flaccid penis.  Guys live 80 years and periodically get hit in the penis or pressed against the penis when lifting and moving things.  Next, if there was an injury bruising would be likely.  Finally, even if there were an injury and bruising does not mean a progressive bout of Peyronies Disease.  If you injure yourself the body has to repair it.  It does that with scar tissue.  A small injury followed by a small scar tissue repair is not Peyronies Disease.  It is not progressive, and not a huge issue.  It is just normal healing.  Peyronies Disease is a condition of abnormal hyper-tropic scarring where instead of mending just a wound the scarring sets off a syndrome of over-running healthy tissue.  if you look up photos of keloids you will see a visible topical version of the hypertropic scaring.  

You might not even be genetically predisposed to Peyronies Disease.  I might be if you damaged your erect penis it would form an adequate scar to repair the damage and stop.  That could make a slight deformity depending on the size of the injury but it is not progressive,

Now go immerse yourself in some daily meditation.  Teach you mind to let intrusive thought (which are normal for all of us) to pass by without evaluation or judgement.  In time you will not only give your mind a much needed rest and time of recuperation and rest but you will learn better to do it even when not meditating.  Stick with it.  It is 20 or 30 minutes a day well spent.

[Logarn]

I guess just because something hurts it doesn't mean it is an injury right?  Does the body always heal injuries with scar tissue?  I thought it could heal with healthy tissue if it isn't severe.  If it is the case that it heals with scar tissue would that mean that all of those guys who live to 80 would have small amounts of scar tissue in their penis but just not enough to cause problems like progressive peyronie's/ fibrosis? Finally, do you know why some get scarring inside the corpora while most get it in the tunica?  From my reading it sounds like peyronies is more common from trauma like tunica tear and corporal fibrosis is more often from things like priapism.

Anyway, those are the last of my technical questions related to the issue.  Learning how it works physically has been helping me in this case so I appreciate your willingness to answer my questions.

Day 1 of meditation starts today!  I will begin focusing more on the mental aspect because this anxiety spills over into so many aspects of my life and I need to nip it in the bud before it gets to the point of really suicidal thoughts or something

[smashin]

Light tissue damage will heal with a scar. If surrounded by the right environment, i.e not pre-disposed to peyronies, with enough blood flow the scar will probably become very similar to the natural tissue to the point any small amount of deformity could become unnoticeable anyway.

You are correct with your thinking regarding corporal damage. It is mostly the result of priapism or trapped blood/fluid.

Give yourself a break dude. Put your feet up and chill out.

[Hawk]

When you say damage, damage is not a medical term.  A slap on the face is damage.  It hurts and your face flushes.  A harder hit may cause a slight contusion (bruise) because a blood capillary or two were broken.  those capillaries may seal off with a spot of scar tissue or heal with a thread of scar tissue.  such issues would only be apparent with microscopic analysis.

Move on to the link I shared with you.

[Logarn]

Had a better day yesterday and today.  Some nagging anxiety but seemed to break out of the panic loop.  Thanks for the support and advice to everyone who posted.

Would you think it would be a good idea to try and seek a specialists to get imaging/tests as a way to put the mind at ease or would you think that is just going to lead to more obsession and unnecessary worry going through that process? I am unsure whether it would help or hurt my anxiety recovery and if it is just a waste of time and effort without obvious symptoms and where I'm at physically

[smashin]

Really glad to hear it bud.

In my opinion, for now I would just leave it to one side. In the meantime go about your life normally and try not to think about that kind of stuff. Keeep yourself occupied. People who have anxiety or panic disorders can be like sitting ducks with rumination and obsessive negative thinking when they have nothing to do. A way to turn these thinking patterns into something positive is to find something you can really get your mind into, to distract yourself from ruminating about issues which can cause torment. Even if it's just installing a new computer game you like or rummaging through YouTube and wiki pedia articles, even buy yourself a guitar or something and learn that. Some people's brains just need more stimulation, it's up to you if you want to use that to your advantage by gaining knowledge, or potentially let it create destruction if left to its own devices.

If you have no real pain, or the pain in manageable and subsides, or if you have no real deformation or a deformation which comes and goes, just give it a couple of weeks to ease off. If it by that time you feel there is something wrong, you can always go to the doctors then. Take it in 2 week intervals to give yourself time to forget about it.

Do bare in mind with these kind of obsessions, the thoughts will probably come back and you probably start worrying again and checking all sorts of stuff. That's when you have to remember to keep calm and apply mindfulness or get stuck into one of your interests. Eventually you will start to realise how your brain works and thoughts will probably begin to subside.

Whatever you do; just be objective about it and don't assess things in a state of panic, as you will always conclude the worst.

I am glad things have been better for you in the last couple of days, here's to the next few.

[Hawk]

Medical diagnostic tests are not a treatment for anxiety and panic.  I think it is rather playing right into the hands of such pitfalls and obsessions.

I would use the meditation even if for days it does not seem to be helping OR does not seem like you need it.  It will become an indispensable tool for you.

[Logarn]

Had a urologist appointment today, I had already scheduled it weeks ago so I just kept it.  He seemed to be kind of confused and surprised by my specific worry about flaccid injuries causing corporal fibrosis.  He checked me for peyronie's and said I didn't have any plaque but then I asked about scarring or fibrosis underneath the tunica in the corpora cavernosa since that wouldn't be palpable.  He basically said that I was imagining a problem that doesn't seem to exist where it would harm erectile tissue rather than cause something like plaque on the tunica (if anything at all were to happen.  Corporal fibrosis apparently is more from priapism and in some cases certain repeated injections.  Hopefully I didn't sound completely crazy. It pretty much lined up with what you all were saying and wanted to give an update.  

[Hawk]

I am very happy for you but not even slightly surprised

Now,  This is not your last bout of anxiety in life.  Please learn to master the skills of mindful meditation.  I know you haven't even started and stuck to it or you would have already have positive things to say.

Next time be accomplished and have tools at your disposal.

[Logarn]

I have been working on yoga, immersing myself in hobbies, and starting meditation.  I have been better this past week and feel about 75 percent better mentally.  I think that is really good progress considering where I was a week ago.  I get occasional bouts where I worry again but that might flare up once in a while but I am trying to put a stop to it asap.  Meditation isn't the easiest thing to master in a few days but I am going to really focus on it!

[Hawk]

Everyone who meditates has intrusive thought.  Even experts are not certain on the source or how to prevent random thoughts.  Our minds seems to generate them with no input or control from us.

SO, accept that random thoughts do pop up.  You will learn to let them pass on by, out of your mind.  It is just a learning process.  You will then gain greater control over you mind even while not meditating. It is like learning to wiggle your ears or whistle.  seems so difficult until it isn't then it becomes simplistic.

I am impressed and happy about your progress.  Keep it up!

[TonySa]

Logarn, your shift in mood will be inspiring to others!  And Hawk is to be commended on focusing on not only helping Peyronies Disease sufferers physically, but emotionally as well!  This forum is top notch 🌈

[Logarn]

Yea, everyone has been great and encouraging. I know it will take some to be 100 percent past it.  I am happy to be out of the panic attack stage of it.  The problem with really bad health anxiety like I have is that the mind can really be too imaginative regarding worst case scenarios.  I didn't have any peyronie's symptoms so I likely imagined that my case was an injury deep in the erectile tissue of the cavernosa. My urologist didn't even seem to think that was a real possibility, I guess most likely you would hurt the layers above it first.  Secondly, health anxiety sufferers seem to want more and more tests. If I can just stop imaging the worst case scenarios then I will be good, apparently my worst case scenario isn't even a real scenario if my urologist is correct

[Logarn]

Tonysa and Hawk,

I'll stop posting physical questions after these as I am mainly focusing on the psychological aspect at the moment but I found a pic of the condition I was talking about (the one on the left called corpora cavernosa fibrosis) and just wanted to clear that up.  I'll quit posting physical questions regarding this after these questions


The pic on the left is what I was more worried about happening and I remember you said that peyronie's of any kind don't usually occur from flaccid injuries. Is that also considered peyronie's on the right and not likely from flaccid trauma? The urologist couldn't feel any plaque but I figure he wouldn't be able to feel what is going on in left side pic. Would you get curvature and pain from the type of fibrosis on the right or how would one know if they had that type?  

[TonySa]

Logarn, you're heading back towards obsessing over nothing-the doc cleared you given your type of injury and current condition (no symptoms).  Please try to focus on that.

[Logarn]

Tonysa,

I know, i'm not totally over it but I am spending less time on it and my worry level is lower.  I figure the urologist can't feel the type of fibrosis on the left and isn't going to do imaging.  

I really just wanted to see if that is the condition you were talking about when we were talking about corporal fibrosis because I didn't know how to explain it and it is labeled as something different than peyronies in the picture (not sure if the picture is accurately labeled though).  Perhaps the type of fibrosis on the left is even less likely than the type on the right due to injury and I'm worrying about nothing

[Hawk]

As Tony said......

You are responding like an alcoholic who says"I know, I know you are right, I just want one more little drink today."  I refuse to have that drink with you so I am ignoring your question  

Let the thought pas through without evaluating it or responding to it just like meditation.

[Logarn]

Cold turkey is one of the hardest ways to quit isn't it?  

[TonySa]

Self help strategies go a long way, but if needed professional counseling assistance can really speed up the anxiety reduction.  Sometimes as few as 6-12 cognitive behavioral treatment sessions.

[TDix]

Believe it or not, a good thing to occupy your mind is jigsaw puzzles!  I had to quarantine a few months ago, and jigsaw puzzles really kept my mind busy.  They are also a form of meditation in that you are exercising the mind and doing a relaxing task.  Try it out!