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Author Topic: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough  (Read 1124 times)

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Aboqor

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Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« on: August 02, 2020, 06:36:21 PM »

Hi All,

I have been watching this forum for quite some time and I want to thank you all for providing so much information. I am feeling quite depressed and I am fearing my disease progressing through shortening and worsening erectile function.

My urologist told me Tamoxifen combined with a PDE5 inhibitor is more effective in reducing curvature than pentox. She used the following research as her basis: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0302283818307553

What do you guys think of this? It seems like this combination is more effective in the early stages. Would love to get your feedback.

Aboqor
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7th of March 2020: noticed 45 degree bent upwards
1st of July 2020: started feeling pain when flaccid, soft glans.

3rd of August 2020: VED. PDE5 + Tamoxifen COQ10, ALCAR, Vitamins,light traction.

5th of October 2020: Traction Device + Above

TonySa

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2020, 08:17:01 PM »

It’s worth a shot.  Any chance she would prescribe all three?  I’d def add traction and/or VED.  Be sure to read the survival guide; https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,3180.msg44057.html#msg44057
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PxD 2 yrs 9/16.  Failed all treatment. 9/11/18: excision, grafting & implant Dr Karpman MtnView Ca, AMS CX 18cm + 3-1cm RTEs.
Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

Aboqor

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2020, 03:41:41 AM »

I'm not too sure how safe that'll be but I will ask her opinion on it! She said that pentox will mostly help with the pain but that this combination (with daily VED usage) will be more effective as shown in the research. I believe she even mentioned a research from march 2020 but I havent been able to find it.
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7th of March 2020: noticed 45 degree bent upwards
1st of July 2020: started feeling pain when flaccid, soft glans.

3rd of August 2020: VED. PDE5 + Tamoxifen COQ10, ALCAR, Vitamins,light traction.

5th of October 2020: Traction Device + Above

peter123

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2020, 04:49:09 AM »

Hi All,

I have been watching this forum for quite some time and I want to thank you all for providing so much information. I am feeling quite depressed and I am fearing my disease progressing through shortening and worsening erectile function.

My urologist told me Tamoxifen combined with a PDE5 inhibitor is more effective in reducing curvature than pentox. She used the following research as her basis: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0302283818307553

What do you guys think of this? It seems like this combination is more effective in the early stages. Would love to get your feedback.

Aboqor


one thing I learned over the last few months is the only thing that physicians are actually interested in when it comes to these things are rtcs, randomized controlled trials. thats it. sure, its neat that in an animal model or in an in vitro study something has proven to have some effect but over and over again it has been shown that this does not directly translate into efficiency when given directly to humans. thats why they always write "further studies are very much needed". its just that nobody really gives a [email protected]< about mens sexual health and since most peyornies sufferers are old already.. no studies will be conducted. xiaflex was only a lucky shot since it was being developed for duypitrens contracture.

think about how insane this is. this is something that affects 10% of men but nobody is even bothered developing a drug for it. its the exact same thing with male baldness. which I also have and desperately wait for treatment. but nobody cares, its just low evidence studies like this one that never translate sadly. thats also why in review papers you see those things as being not recommended. because for a clinician this is not evidence sadly. and most won't even want to try anything unless the disease is lethal. because as we all know, if its not lethal it can't ruin your life! /s

you seem to have found a decent one though who is not a massive retard like the "watchful waiting" idiot doctors whom I wish the worst peyronies on earth that eats them alive, daily
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onset of symptoms in February 2020 initial pain when flaccid only which has since improved. 20deg left curvature, loss of girth indent
started oral treatment in march, currently on Potaba 12mg 1200mg Pentox, 2.5mg Taladafil and L-arginin
very depress

Aboqor

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2020, 06:34:18 AM »

Hello Peter,

Trust me, I have definitely spoken to at least 2 specialists who suggested just to wait and had to look on wikipedia during the consult. I do feel like the disease is getting more attention now than it did 10 years ago. After speaking to yet another GP (most of them are complete tools) he found a specialist in male sexual health.

She told me pentox is mainly provided for the pain and could potentially dimish the curvature, but argued Tamoxifen + Tadalafil to be more effective in preventing more scarring and reducing the curvature.

Just like you I am quite afraid and depressed. I'm a young man who just got an amazing appartment, amazing internship and has a beautiful girlfriend yet I am not able to enjoy any of it. However, I will try to keep fighting this and I am glad I finally found a specialist in my country who without question prescribed me these remedies.

Will start medication today and I will keep you posted. If anyone has any feedback I would be glad to hear it.
Logged
7th of March 2020: noticed 45 degree bent upwards
1st of July 2020: started feeling pain when flaccid, soft glans.

3rd of August 2020: VED. PDE5 + Tamoxifen COQ10, ALCAR, Vitamins,light traction.

5th of October 2020: Traction Device + Above

peter123

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2020, 06:45:47 AM »

Hello Peter,

Trust me, I have definitely spoken to at least 2 specialists who suggested just to wait and had to look on wikipedia during the consult. I do feel like the disease is getting more attention now than it did 10 years ago. After speaking to yet another GP (most of them are complete tools) he found a specialist in male sexual health.

She told me pentox is mainly provided for the pain and could potentially dimish the curvature, but argued Tamoxifen + Tadalafil to be more effective in preventing more scarring and reducing the curvature.

Just like you I am quite afraid and depressed. I'm a young man who just got an amazing appartment, amazing internship and has a beautiful girlfriend yet I am not able to enjoy any of it. However, I will try to keep fighting this and I am glad I finally found a specialist in my country who without question prescribed me these remedies.

Will start medication today and I will keep you posted. If anyone has any feedback I would be glad to hear it.

Not just like me at all
Logged
onset of symptoms in February 2020 initial pain when flaccid only which has since improved. 20deg left curvature, loss of girth indent
started oral treatment in march, currently on Potaba 12mg 1200mg Pentox, 2.5mg Taladafil and L-arginin
very depress

Aboqor

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2020, 06:02:20 PM »

Short update: seeing some progression. Upward curve had decreased from around 45 to 25 degrees, glans is also more engorged than before the treatment. Havent experienced much noticable decrease in length, maybe half a centimeter since march of this year.

I will talk to my docter at the end of this month to see if I can lower the dose of tadalafil from 5mg to 2.5, I pretty much have an erection everytime my penis touches something. I am also starting traction.

I dont know if the tamoxifen works. I havent experienced negative symptoms so far except for increased hair loss (which will reverse when I quit). I will ask to maybe get on pentox in november.

Stay strong.
Logged
7th of March 2020: noticed 45 degree bent upwards
1st of July 2020: started feeling pain when flaccid, soft glans.

3rd of August 2020: VED. PDE5 + Tamoxifen COQ10, ALCAR, Vitamins,light traction.

5th of October 2020: Traction Device + Above

Bill2020

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2020, 06:43:00 PM »

Aboqor, thank you for the update and congratulations on your improvement.

Can you tell us what dosage of Tamoxifen you are taking?
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*45 y.o.
*25° lateral curve
*Lost about 2cm in length and some girth
*2 sessions of PRP - made things slightly worse
*Currently taking Tamoxifen(low dose), L-Carnitine, COQ10, Vitamin E, Cialis (daily 5mg) and TRT

jan.schaller1958

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2020, 08:25:49 PM »

Ive always said Peyroines is a totally neglected area of medicine. It might be because it usually affects older men (average age at onset is 55), but I think it’s more that nobody gives a sh*t about male sexuality anyway. If something like this affected the sex lives of 10% of women of all ages, you bet someone would be doing something about it. Yeah, like now. Ditto as to male pattern baldness. Same problem. If women went bald as much as men, they would be demanding research be conducted on it and ways found to stop it.
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TonySa

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2020, 12:00:47 AM »

Wrong!  Women’s health is very much neglected vs. men’s health.  You’ve got it backwards.
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PxD 2 yrs 9/16.  Failed all treatment. 9/11/18: excision, grafting & implant Dr Karpman MtnView Ca, AMS CX 18cm + 3-1cm RTEs.
Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

Aboqor

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2020, 03:27:40 AM »

Can you tell us what dosage of Tamoxifen you are taking?

I am taking 10mg of Tamoxifen twice daily at 12:30 and 20:30. Tadalafil before bed. I use the VED (viamann) once or twice a day (depending on time). Sessions are 4 to 5 pumps with 2 minute holds. I have now started to use the andropenis stretching device for 6-9 hours a day.

The curve did improve a bit in the months where I was not using any treatments. My peyronies coincided when I started intermittant fasting funnily enough, so maybe this helped with recovery? I did notice my gland hardness and pain getting worse and now with treatment that is starting to slowly fade.
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7th of March 2020: noticed 45 degree bent upwards
1st of July 2020: started feeling pain when flaccid, soft glans.

3rd of August 2020: VED. PDE5 + Tamoxifen COQ10, ALCAR, Vitamins,light traction.

5th of October 2020: Traction Device + Above

jan.schaller1958

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2020, 11:14:59 AM »

Tony, how did I get it wrong? All medicine seems to care about is females, not male health. There are more female doctors in most countries than male, meds are always developed for females, to protect their „precious“ sexuality, cosmetic surgery is almost entirely devoted to women no one gives a crap about men and male sexuality. It’s a totally neglected area of medicine. Where’s the oral cure for male pattern baldness? There isn’t one. What poor guy in his 20s suffering this disfigurement can afford 25,000$USD for hair transplants? You think women would put up with that? No way. Where’s the cure for Peyroines? There is none. Just worthless Pentox and Olive‘s vitamin and magnesium BS he pushes which does nothing. Women wouldn’t sit still for that. Cervical cancer has a vaccine because women demanded it. And tamoxifen? What? That’s an estrogen blocker for treating breast cancer. Using it in Peyroines? Weirdest thing I ever heard of.
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TonySa

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2020, 05:23:45 PM »

Most medical studies have focused on men.  Just google it, but here’s one article to get you started:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1761670/
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PxD 2 yrs 9/16.  Failed all treatment. 9/11/18: excision, grafting & implant Dr Karpman MtnView Ca, AMS CX 18cm + 3-1cm RTEs.
Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

drew67

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2020, 10:01:16 PM »

Transdermal Tamoxifen (Afimoxifene) is also an option which I might try soon.  Breast cancer research shows Afimoxifene to be more efficacious than Tamoxifen with much fewer side effects.

https://www.sci-hub.ren/10.1111/tbj.13674
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jan.schaller1958

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2020, 12:43:09 AM »

Drew67

I’d be leery of taking tamoxifen based on only a few studies. I’d want to be sure it’s safe and effective first in men with Peyroines. It’s an estrogen blocker for breast cancer, since breast cancer feeds off estrogen. It’s got a lot of side effects too. You can try Pentox as it seems everyone does, and it’s pretty harmless, but I’m not convinced of its effectiveness. It‘s just a maybe. Some guys report results with it others say it does nothing.
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shrunken_dick

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2020, 01:23:16 PM »

Why tamixifene by the way?
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McChicken94

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2020, 06:35:23 AM »

I never understood that either. All I know is that Tamoxifen is a selective estrogen receptor modulator like Clomid. Personally I wouldn't use it cause Clomid gave me permanent eye floaters in the past. But what is does is block certain estrogen receptors in your body. For example, it can prevent gynecomastia by blocking the receptors locally. But what it also does is block the estrogen receptor in your pituiray or hypothalamus I think so in males it means the body detects low estrogen and starts producing more testosterone as a result. Why? Negative feedback loop. Brain produces LH and FSH which makes the testes produce testosterone (and sperm), most of the estrogen comes from it being converted from testosterone. Then the brain mostly only "measures" if your T levels are fine or not by trying to balance the estrogen.
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Aboqor

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2020, 05:30:19 AM »

Selective oestrogen receptor modulators (like Tamoxifen) were identified to significantly inhibit myofibroblast transformation. A PDE5i (vardenafil) and a SERM (tamoxifen) inhibited myofibroblast transformation, collagen gel contraction, and extracellular matrix production in a synergistic fashion. In a rat model of Peyronies Disease, the antifibrotic effect of the combination of vardenafil and tamoxifen was greater than that of each drug alone.
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7th of March 2020: noticed 45 degree bent upwards
1st of July 2020: started feeling pain when flaccid, soft glans.

3rd of August 2020: VED. PDE5 + Tamoxifen COQ10, ALCAR, Vitamins,light traction.

5th of October 2020: Traction Device + Above

jj21

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2020, 05:05:30 AM »

Any update?
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Age:30 - Symptoms for 6-7 months no improvement or worsening.... Prominent Left + Upwards curve when half erect.. Fully erect - approx 20-25 degree curve... No noticeable plaque. Waiting on Ultrasound results.. Mild Erectile Dysfunction..

postrocker

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2020, 08:00:55 AM »

I am also curious.
Thanks.
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Aboqor

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2020, 11:10:18 AM »

I posted the following message on a different post (which can be found at https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,14200.0.html)

My curve started out at 45 degrees dorsal. Without treatment it improved to about 25 degrees in 5 months. Now that I have been doing treatments (VED, Supplements, pde5 (5mg tadalafil), tamoxifen (10mg x2) the curve is about 15 degrees. My penis looks a bit shorter from above due to the curve at the glans, although after measuring it today I found out the length is probably the same as it was before my peyronies started so I should stop worrying. Lost about 0.75 inch of girth at the top 20% of my penis due to narrowing but no significant girth changes at the rest of my penis so not a big deal.

My glans did not get hard anymore but following the VED protocol of my urologist probably did the trick in getting that almost back to normal.

There is hope. I still worry everyday but just listen to your uro and be critical.

For me doing things as keto did not have any benefit other than make me lose 8kg in a month. Best just to eat healthy, not smoke, drinking red wine for alcohol once a week if you want to, exercise 4 times a week and be on top of your medication and physical therapy. With lockdown in place I am wearing my traction device for 7 hours a day and it feels good because you feel like you are actively combatting the condition.
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7th of March 2020: noticed 45 degree bent upwards
1st of July 2020: started feeling pain when flaccid, soft glans.

3rd of August 2020: VED. PDE5 + Tamoxifen COQ10, ALCAR, Vitamins,light traction.

5th of October 2020: Traction Device + Above

jj21

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2020, 06:10:15 AM »

Ab - Thank you for that. What do you feel like was the main reason to your improvement? Any particular treatment or a combination of treatments ?

Thanks
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Age:30 - Symptoms for 6-7 months no improvement or worsening.... Prominent Left + Upwards curve when half erect.. Fully erect - approx 20-25 degree curve... No noticeable plaque. Waiting on Ultrasound results.. Mild Erectile Dysfunction..

Aboqor

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2020, 09:32:56 AM »

Difficult to comment on that. I am inclined to say the PDE5 and VED, but that might be because they are the most "present" methods. Plaque size does decrease with tamoxifen and pde5 according to the aforementioned research. I will quit using tamoxifen next month since long term usage is not recommended.

I felt like my disease was progressing since I started feeling sharp pains and I had a soft glans. Using the VED, PDE5, Tamoxifen and supplements removed that pain and now I worry less. I would try to attack this problem through as many angles as possible, although try not to be coerced into buying the most expensive equipment (a mid-priced VED and traction device will do if you dont have 500€ to spare).
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7th of March 2020: noticed 45 degree bent upwards
1st of July 2020: started feeling pain when flaccid, soft glans.

3rd of August 2020: VED. PDE5 + Tamoxifen COQ10, ALCAR, Vitamins,light traction.

5th of October 2020: Traction Device + Above

jj21

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2020, 03:34:50 AM »

Any side effects from the Tamoxifen ? I heard it can make people hormonal etc
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Age:30 - Symptoms for 6-7 months no improvement or worsening.... Prominent Left + Upwards curve when half erect.. Fully erect - approx 20-25 degree curve... No noticeable plaque. Waiting on Ultrasound results.. Mild Erectile Dysfunction..

Amsterdamdude

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Re: Tamoxifen + PDE5 breakthrough
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2020, 07:19:02 AM »

Hi Aboqor
who is your specialist? I saw you are Dutch?
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