none of the traction studies have follow ups

[peter123]

what if the curvature comes back after you stop using the traction device? people can't do 5hrs of traction for all their lives. its presented as na alternative to surgery but surgery for sure is permanent so is there any scientific evidence that traction is too? what about length gains? really wondering before starting with it

[melting]

You can read about elastic and plastic deformation.  
If you stretch body tissue for a certain amount of time at a certain intensity it will deform plastically.
If you stretch your ear lobes once for some hours they might be a bit longer for some more hours but return to 0 soon.
If you stretch your ear lobes for some months with weights they will stay longer(but some % will always "snap back")

[samsung]

Melting, please don't take this as directed at you. I think you have some great contributions.

What is the point of traction? And do you know this for a scientific fact? Sorry for the rant but I am so tired of people thinking things. I don't think gravity exists. I know it does. Either traction results in permanent gains or you should get surgery or an implant. Period. Anyone that thinks anything else is using faulty logic.

Why does anyone here spend years pulling their pecker 600 hours a day with torture devices if a "certain % snaps back?"

This forum is pretty much useless. Everything is guesswork. Treatments by and large, don't work. Or if they do, maybe marginally. And the ones that do have relief, can't attribute it to any one thing and can't prove they aren't just "spontaneous healers."

I don't think anyone with a calcified plaque and a significant bend or hourglassing can do anything about it.

Yiu can improve erections, but other than that, surgery is the only known answer. Everything else is a waste of effort.

Sorry, just feeling super discouraged lately. I'll probably regret this post at some point.

Don't flame me too much please. Just venting a bit. And trying to present a "negative" viewpoint. You all love negativity so much here.

[melting]

Understand . Viable points.

Somehow I felt early improvements with my measures and then kept doing them until they turned into big improvements.
I never was the disciplined type and was mostly a scatter brain getting into everything and nothing. But here I did it. Daily transdermals, stretching pelvic floor, healthy lifestyle(eating, moving, supplements) and traction + VED everyday for months.

It's a fact that all materials and human tissue have a flexibility, plastic deformation point and snapping point to it. Iron, rubber, bones, collagen, tunica, peyronies plaques, party balloons.

Give little air into a party ballon and it will increase size. Let air immediately out and it will return to original size. Elastic properties at play.
Give more air in and let it stay in for some days and then let it out. The balloon is bigger than original size. The balloon is plastically deformed BUT still not as big as if Air was in, stretching it. That % is "snapped back" due to elastic properties.
If you get older the elastic properties of your skin are less, making it sag, not snapping back like when young.
The tunica isn't much different in principle.

Look at the attached picture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress-strain_curve
https://openoregon.pressbooks.pub/bodyphysics/chapter/elasticity-and-hookes-law/
When you look at the picture and transport it to the tunica and elongation you have to think of individual(thousands?), very small, fibers. So some of them will be in the plastic region and some in the elastic region. So stopping traction immediately you will lose some expansion.


The plaques are less flexible than the healthy tissue and have a lot shorter elastic region. That said they also are harder, so harder to break too. (imagine stretching tunica and 'iron' at the same time..)
Heat btw. increases the elastic region while making it also easier to reach the plastic region without reaching breaking point(think heated glowing iron bar stretched)

That is why softening the plaques and the same time extending and VED worked, at least for me.
But I did it like a cold minded psychopath with determination, while always staying careful, logical, to not make it worse. Was a PITA. Sometimes(!) extender 16 hours(10 minute breaks applying dmso+x) and VED end of the day lol. I couldn't do it right now daily for 6 months. Not in the mindset. When the doc explained to me "Nesbit procedure" something switched.

Of course, getting a narcosis, letting the doc do his thing might be the easier and faster way and some people had success with these procedures(some not)..
What I see a lot is people doing not enough or too much. They try a bit of this or that. Place all hope in one supplement or measure. It's the continuous application of measures from some angles, daily, that makes a difference. There are some on the forums who did it that way.

To you personally, Samsung, the measures you list in your signature, do you do them daily all together, or did you do them one after the other?

[samsung]

Right now I am doing:

AM and PM Restorex
22.5 min. straight stretch
22.5 bent stretch

I have been doing this daily for about 3 months.

I take Arginine, Cialis, vit. K2, Lipoic acid, and iodine. They are all useless except for the cialis and arginine.

When I first was diagnosed, I did nothing. Because I was in the beginning stages of drug withdrawal and I didn't even really understand what peyronie's was for about a year. You had to be there.  

Prior to the restorex I did penimaster pro for about 6 months, probably 4 or 5 hours a day.

Then I did xiaflex 4 rounds. In between rounds I did restorex.

I tried doing VED right after restorex for a while but it is disgustingly messy and it never works the same way twice for me.

I don't feel like I have put in 100% effort, but you try putting in that kind of effort when you're going through another kind of hell simultaneously. Most people in my situation kill themselves. So I think I have done pretty good.

My plaque calcified basically immediately, within the first couple of months.

The bend hasn't worsened in at least 6 months. The pain is off and on. The hourglassing has gotten worse. The plaques have grown since the original one. I can't really tell now if they are still spreading.

I also tried keto diet and exercise. Exercise seems to make the turtling worse so I stopped.

Keto did nothing. Fasting did nothing. In fact I feel much better the more sugar I eat. And I am in the keeping myself alive business so more often than not I keep eating sugar.

I don't really know what to do from here.

I could put in 1000 hours of traction and do VED religiously but for what?

I could try your DMSO regimen, but why? It is torture and just as likely to not work.

The payoff is so small or nonexistent I just feel the second you get diagnosed with this they should strap you down and implant you. Because everything else is just stupid.

[peter123]

Melting, please don't take this as directed at you. I think you have some great contributions.

What is the point of traction? And do you know this for a scientific fact? Sorry for the rant but I am so tired of people thinking things. I don't think gravity exists. I know it does. Either traction results in permanent gains or you should get surgery or an implant. Period. Anyone that thinks anything else is using faulty logic.

Why does anyone here spend years pulling their pecker 600 hours a day with torture devices if a "certain % snaps back?"

This forum is pretty much useless. Everything is guesswork. Treatments by and large, don't work. Or if they do, maybe marginally. And the ones that do have relief, can't attribute it to any one thing and c

I don't think anyone with a calcified plaque and a significant bend or hourglassing can do anything about it.

Yiu can improve erections, but other than that, surgery is the only known answer. Everything else is a waste of effort.

Sorry, just feeling super discouraged lately. I'll probably regret this post at some point.

Don't flame me too much please. Just venting a bit. And trying to present a "negative" viewpoint. You all love negativity so much here.

how can you be such a whiny bitch? you complain about people "thinking" to much but its right there in your pity rant, you THINK ("I don't think anyone with a calcified") as well, people guessing does not mean that there is no permanent effect, also if you gain -30degrees and 30% of it snaps back then that is still a statistically significant improvement. the studies investigating the use of traction for Peyronies Disease all conclude that it ís a viable option, only limitations is all but one study have no follow up. I assume however if these people would get worse again, that would surely be mentioned by some of the doctors conduction these studies or at least in a review paper.

>"can't prove they aren't spontaneous healers"

or really is that so? then tell all the scientists that their approach with double blinded and controlled studies are all worthless, statistical significance is a meaningless concept and they should all just become fishermen instead! because that is the logic you are applying here, studies are there because they allow us to differentiate between a group that does nothing and a group that does a certain treatment. there'll be spontaneous healers in both of them but if one group has -30deg curvature and the other +5, its pretty clear that it has efficiency.

the only question is how much does one actually regress after therapy is stopped.

and you are twice my age so come on with the desperation  

[peter123]

Right now I am doing:

AM and PM Restorex
22.5 min. straight stretch
22.5 bent stretch

I have been doing this daily for about 3 months.

I take Arginine, Cialis, vit. K2, Lipoic acid, and iodine. They are all useless except for the cialis and arginine.

When I first was diagnosed, I did nothing. Because I was in the beginning stages of drug withdrawal and I didn't even really understand what peyronie's was for about a year. You had to be there.  

Prior to the restorex I did penimaster pro for about 6 months, probably 4 or 5 hours a day.

Then I did xiaflex 4 rounds. In between rounds I did restorex.

I tried doing VED right after restorex for a while but it is disgustingly messy and it never works the same way twice for me.

I don't feel like I have put in 100% effort, but you try putting in that kind of effort when you're going through another kind of hell simultaneously. Most people in my situation kill themselves. So I think I have done pretty good.

My plaque calcified basically immediately, within the first couple of months.

The bend hasn't worsened in at least 6 months. The pain is off and on. The hourglassing has gotten worse. The plaques have grown since the original one. I can't really tell now if they are still spreading.

I also tried keto diet and exercise. Exercise seems to make the turtling worse so I stopped.

Keto did nothing. Fasting did nothing. In fact I feel much better the more sugar I eat. And I am in the keeping myself alive business so more often than not I keep eating sugar.

I don't really know what to do from here.

I could put in 1000 hours of traction and do VED religiously but for what?

I could try your DMSO regimen, but why? It is torture and just as likely to not work.

The payoff is so small or nonexistent I just feel the second you get diagnosed with this they should strap you down and implant you. Because everything else is just stupid.

they surely should have implanted you from the get go with your constant whining

[samsung]

Thanks Peter. That was really really helpful. You're a helpful supportive guy. We all really appreciate your helpfulness and supportiveness. Because you are helpful. And supportive.

[peter123]

Thanks Peter. That was really really helpful. You're a helpful supportive guy. We all really appreciate your helpfulness and supportiveness. Because you are helpful. And supportive.

I do not want to be helpful or supporttive here. I asked a simple question, a survey if you like. there are thousands of people on this forum, surely someone has done traction therapy before. I want to hear from them whether their results have been maintained or not. I dont want whining and misery in my post  

[samsung]

O.K. If you don't want to be helpful or supportive then why should we be helpful and supportive to you? By your logic should I not just call you an entitled a-hole and not answer your question? I didn't though. I tried to make a cogent point that was tangential to yours. In a helpful manner. If it came off as "whining" I am sorry for your perception.

I see what you are saying though. You just wanted an answer to your original question. I would like that answer too. Which was my point. There are no follow up studies. And there is no proof that traction has any long term effects. If you want to take that as "negativity" go ahead.

Why don't you stop being a whiny bitch yourself and just try traction. I did. A lot of it. And it didn't work. Most treatments here don't work. This is neither whiny or unwhiny. It has nothing to do with being young or old. I am entitled to feel frustrated. So are you.

O.K.?

[melting]

that escalated quickly lol.

For some the light approach might work and it will surely take a lot of months to see small results.
Light for me is what you, Samsung, describe, like 2x 20 minutes stretching. It's still a PITA, of course, especially when having other things in life. That light regime still needs to be done regularly of course.

To see really good results, in a high probability, you need to do it daily for as long as possible(without creating more problems). That's just how it is. Obviously if you have low energy to do it, cause you don't believe in it, it most probably wont work or you will do it in a way that doesn't work.

Btw. If you train/exercise blood will leave the penis for the time being to move it to the muscles. Mid and long term it will have only good benefits for the cardio vascular health and also blood supply to the penis.

the only question is how much does one actually regress after therapy is stopped.

If the plaque itself is mitigated, broken up, whatever, and you're healthy, there's no reason for it to come back.
If it comes to size beyond the plaque some % will be lost which depends on how long and how intense you did it before.
2 Weeks of extending daily wont do much. Think more about 6 months daily.

[samsung]

The 2X per day of 45 min. is because I am using restorex. Otherwise I would do 6 hours or whatever. I'm trying restorex for an extended time. That is actually the max they recommend. If you did restorex for a longer period I don't think it would be good.

[melting]

If you did restorex for a longer period I don't think it would be good.

Why? Says Restore X?
My guess is these companies recommend the lowest time that still might give results, possibly for fear of being hold liable if someone uses it 18 hours without pause and kills his dick lol There's always someone doing that..

Though, the way the glans is trapped in the restore X, as I can see from pics, I don't know how long is possible.
I had a normal noose type extender and had to modify it to wear it longer. Still I mostly used it only between 30 and 60 minutes a set. After that I opened up, restored blood flow and re-strapped for another set.
At very loose setting, I could wear it 90 minutes.

Here is an example day(after many weeks getting used to wearing it!):

1. set ~45 minutes, very low intensity. Barely feeling stretch.
Warm up. Sometime use a heat source like infrared lamp or warm wet cloth while extending.
-Open extender, massage blood in ~5 minutes.(possibly add dmso+X or an oil)
2. set Increase intensity a bit. Wear as long as you can without cold penis or change of color. ~30-60 min.
-Open extender, massage blood in ~5 minutes.(possibly add dmso+X or an oil)
3. set Increase intensity towards slight uncomfortable. Wear as long as you can
-"Open extender,..
4. set Increase intensity towards very uncomfortable, feeling the stretch but never pain.  Wear as long as you can..
-"Open extender,..
5. set get to the max intensity you can,..(never pain!) ~5-20 minutes..
-"Open extender,..
6. set Lower the intensity. Keep a good stretch, only slightly uncomfortable.
-"Open extender,..
7. 8. 9. ..set, Keep a good stretch, work with the expansion you created prior..

End day with some edging and/or VED to "fill in" the penis with a good blood flow.

If next day, first 2 sets I feel sore, I cut intensity back until the soreness is gone and lower my overall intensity. It's good to feel the tissue worked, but not sore(inflammed)

[skunkworks]

I used a traditional traction device for a long time, stopped a while back just due to time commitments etc. I do not appear to have lost any of the regained length.