STAGE SURGERY

[JimLe96]

So, I think I've made the decision to go ahead with stage surgery, mainly because of the mental torture and the fact that I am limited to certain sexual positions. I have a 40-degree dorsal curvature, this, combined with the location of the curve (1/3rd of the way up) and the length (8.5 inches) makes life difficult. My girlfriend has told me on several occasions during sex that it feels like it's going to rip her perineum and ultimately that made my mind up.

Now my decision is which surgeon to use. I have narrowed this decision down to Dr. Garaffa at International Andrology or Dr. Kuehhas in Vienna.

Obviously the main concern is complications, but after speaking to Dr. Garaffa, he has said that the success rate for virgin patients (patients that have not been operated on before) is around 98%. He also confirmed that length loss will be minimal as it will be the same as when I force my erection straight, which is exactly the same.

However, I know that many people here have had successful surgeries with Dr. Kuehhas and I have seen very little from people's experience with Dr. Garaffa.

I would appreciate any opinions you may have...

Many thanks

Jim

[kusher]

( many people here have had successful surgeries with Dr. Kuehhas ) , dude my only question to you is: what kind of crack were you smokin while reading stories on this forum? I suggest you to dig deeply into those stories as they will reveal to you why stage surgery is not used in USA and other developed countries.  

[samsung]

And I would get another diagnosis too as to whether or not you have peyronie's. Get an ultrasound, etc. from a different doctor. If it is congenital I would not operate.

[Jack1909]

What's wrong with STAGE?? I still think what makes the difference is surgeons ability not the type of surgery.

International Andrology? Isn't it the clinic founded by Kuehhas himself??


JimLe I dont know Garaffa he might be great but when he told you "98% success rate" Well he basically lied no one in the world can show this percentage off. No one.  

[Jack1909]

When you get surgery you should remind that if you get recurrence (1 out of 3 hai some) you need to have another surgery and another surgery means doubling or more your odds to bump into Erectile Dysfunction or other complications.

Wait a minute, dorsal curvature? No way I would fix a 40 degrees dorsal curvature.  

[TonySa]

With 8.5" why not go w the lesser complicated plication—seems like you could afford to lose a little length and your gf might even appreciate it if sex is do difficult (it may be the curve + your length).

[kusher]

.

[JimLe96]

Hi all, firstly, thank you all for your contributions.

@Kusher - I have read up a fair bit about the STAGE/modified Nesbit procedure and I understand that several people on this forum (you included) have had complications with it which I am sorry to hear. I asked Dr. Garaffa about the complications involved with the surgery and he said that 70% of his operations are virgin procedures and 30% is to correct a failed procedure. He said that in his experience, 98% of all virgin operations are a success. From what I can see on the forum, all the people that have had complications with the STAGE have had surgery prior. I can't seem to find anyone on the forum who has had complications with the STAGE when it was their first op - please share if you have.

@samsung - I have seen several doctors regarding this as I really don't want to have surgery. I have seen Dr. Christopher at UCLH who said it was likely to be congenital, Dr. Garaffa at International andrology, and also Dr. Raheem too. He confirmed that it definitely was not Peyronies (he then went on to explain that he was responsible for the Xiaflex trials in Europe and knows that my fibrous tissue is not a plaque).  

@TonySa - That could be an option. However, both Dr. Raheem and Dr. Garaffa was of the opinion that the modified Nesbit procedure was the safest and best option for me. They explained that the erectile tissue would not be touched and that the length reduction would be minimal as it would be the same length when my erection is forced straight. They didn't even mention the plication, so I will ask them why if I decide to proceed with an op.

@Jack1909 - Is that 1/3 recurrence a fact? And yes, even though a dorsal curvature is arguably one of the easiest to manage, I believe the combination of the length, girth, and location of the curve causes the issues for me.

I really don't want to go ahead with surgery, but the fact is I don't think I will stop thinking about it till I do.
It's my prize possession, the thought of damaging it is terrifying, but then so is living the rest of my life with a bent penis.

It's a hard decision for me to make and I really appreciate everyone's input. All the feedback from the doctors is that I should go ahead with the surgery if it continues to bother me as the operation has a very high success rate when performed by a specialist surgeon... Although most of the feedback here is that I should be happy with what I've got and that I shouldn't take the risk.

What a dilemma to have

Jim

[samsung]

Think about it for a good long time before you do anything. Your dick isn't going anywhere and a possibly momentary girlfriend's discomfort doesn't matter much in the big picture.  

[JimLe96]

Thanks Samsung. Really appreciate it. I hope you're doing well

[Jack1909]

Kusher honestly you are just getting us confused. Some months ago you left us saying the opposite. You said your functionality was kind of 70%, you were straight and all in all Kuehhas was a good surgeon. So then? Please post some pictures because I can't keep up with what are you saying.

[kusher]

.

[Jack1909]

I dont know what happened but I dont have any stitch left, maybe just one on the dorsal area but it could be just a bump. I don't know, I understand what are you talking about but I doubt Kuehhas, which of course I'm not a fan of (everybody knows how severe my ED is), placed non absorbable sutures. Anyway, we should get back to the topic.

[JimLe96]

Do any of you know of a failed stage procedure for virgin patients?

I just can't get away from the "98% success rate" quoted by Dr. Garaffa. He was confident that it is a fairly straight forward procedure when done by a specialist surgeon. He talked me through why some procedures fail, and it's usually down to previous surgeries or due to surgeons that have not calculated the correct position for the incisions which then requires more incisions to correct it.  

My research on this has also been reinforced in an article here -https://www.sexhealthmatters.org/for-healthcare-providers/stage-technique-for-congenital-penile-curvature

To summarise:

Average length reduction of 0.7cm with a 98.6% success rate. I mean surely there is a higher risk of me developing Peyronies due to the curvature than coming across complications with the STAGE when done by an experienced surgeon??

@jack1909 - You mentioned that 1/3 have a recurrence after surgery but I can't seem to find any evidence of this. Please can you share your source for me as this is obviously concerning and I would like to see the literature before making a decision?

Really appreciate everyone's input

Kind regards

Jim

[Jack1909]

Penile shortening
Penile straightening
Persistent or recurrent curvature
Post-operative erectile dysfunction
Penile hypoesthesia
Technical modifications

Nesbit
4.7-30.8%
79-100%
4-26.9%
0-13%
2-21%
1


Plication
41-90%
58-100%
7.7-10.6%
0-22.9%
0-21.4%
At least 3

[Jack1909]

Sorry for posting in that form but I couldn't find a way to post the pic. This has been taken from the European line guides. What is clear from it is how confused, blurring and biased the literature on this problem is. From my own experience of more than ten years on the field the recurrence is no way under 20%.

[JimLe96]

Thanks, Jack

Looks like there is a risk with both procedures here. Obviously, I would rather not have surgery, but then again I need to do something about it.

I could wait for the day a miracle cure exists...

But I haven't seen a single person on the forum complain of complications with the STAGE/Nesbit when it was their first procedure. Have you?

I think this will be the deciding factor for me.

Jim

[TonySa]

It's not a perfect surgery as their own medical reports indicate (referenced above).  See 3.2.2; https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5730743/

[Jack1909]

Well if you think that congenital curvature patients got the same level of complications..it's kind of a shame. they have an healthy penis and they might end up with an extremely unhealthy one.  

[JimLe96]

Thanks for sharing @TonySa.

3.2.2 refers to penis lengthening procedures that are different to the modified Nesbit (Which I am considering).

However, 3.2.1.1 refers to the operation in question.

"Nesbit - It involves removal of 5–10 mm transverse ellipses from the tunica albuginea or approximately 1 mm for each 10° of curvature [78], [79]. The results of the Nesbit operation are excellent, where more than 80% of men have complete straightening of the penis after the procedure, with low risks for penile hypesthesia or recurrence of penile deformity [80]. However, penile shortening is the most commonly reported complication [81], which is 1–1.5 cm in most of the cases, with no gross impact on sexual intercourse [79], [82]. Additionally, the actual degree of shortening is usually less than that perceived by the patient. Hence, the importance of documenting the pre-operative penile length [80], [81]. One modification of the Nesbit procedure has been proposed, where the partial thickness of the tunica albuginea is done instead of complete excision of a wedge from it"

Trust me, I wish that I wasn't in this position and that I was born with a perfectly normal penis like the other 99% of the population. However, I'm not, I'm just fortunate with the length so I could sacrifice a little bit and still be happy with that.

@Jack1909 - thanks for the last message, but I just don't understand it. I'm not saying there are no complications, just that the odds appear to be very good for someone who has congenital curvature with no prior surgeries. @Qwertman and @Zoli1995 are prime examples of this. I can see you're strongly against surgery, which may stem from your bad experience with Dr. Kuehhas, but it looks as if the odds are heavily stacked in favour of there being no complications for me. Do you not agree? I know you're trying to help, but what would you do if you were in my position in light of the above?

I have decided to share a picture so you can all understand what i'm trying to deal with here: https://imgur.com/a/LNsr9ui

As always, thank you for advice and support during this tough time.

Jim

 

[samsung]

I'll reiterate, I would not do anything in your particular case. You have a gradual curve. Does not appear like it would buckle. It looks useable for sex. And there is nothing currently wrong as far as erectile dysfunction or plaque or anything else as far as we know.

People on here are trying to tell you if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

You could always try traction to possibly straighten it a bit. But no way anyone here would tell you to jump to surgery for a useable congenital curve. And a doctor that would operate is not an ethical doc imo.

Go watch a whole bunch of porn if you want a second opinion. I never noticed all the different curved dicks until peyronie's happened to me. But they are there. And they are being used. And a lot of them look like yours. So if you can get your head around that, then I would not operate. Because you could very well end up with a dick that is shorter (that is almost 100 percent assured) and has no feeling in it and end up needing an implant because you can't get an erection.  

[bustedchubb]

I have to agree with Samsung, if you do not have dysfunction, don't operate.  After having a totally normal wiener as of last November, to now it looking like it was slammed in a door jamb, surgery is still a last resort.  In the end you have to weigh the risks vs. the rewards.  Surgery on the penis is risky and alot to go through.  Even well done operations are rough, and recovery is a process.  

[Jack1909]

Well thats not surgeons and medicine says, unfortunately. It says surgery is safe and complications minimal.  

[redbullmaster]

I would say your penis is fine and the pain to your girlfriend is from length and not the bend.
Go slower and don't put as much into her is the answer to that issue.

Also just to add if you do have surgery, the length loss from plication and stage is the same.
Both surgery's carry the risk of ED, so think carefully before you go ahead.

Apart from the stage costing a lot more money, your get the same result from both surgery's.
If they performed correctly, but more potential scare tissue from the stage as more invasive.  

[TonySa]

Wow, your penis is not only healthy but it has a mild upward curve which in the missionary position will directly stimulate your partners errogenous zone (women's g spot or men's prostate)!  I'm sure the discomfort is from your length or perhaps not enough lube.  

[TonySa]

See this string for STAGE surgery w recurring curves x2 and non absorbable sutures.  https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,13811.0/topicseen.html

[TonySa]

If someone does research and wants to go w stage-great and the same for plication.  My best solution is not necessarily yours.  Here one can get many opinions and weigh everything given their issues and personal preferences/concerns.  Thanks for sharing yours...

[peter123]

So, I think I've made the decision to go ahead with stage surgery, mainly because of the mental torture and the fact that I am limited to certain sexual positions. I have a 40-degree dorsal curvature, this, combined with the location of the curve (1/3rd of the way up) and the length (8.5 inches) makes life difficult. My girlfriend has told me on several occasions during sex that it feels like it's going to rip her perineum and ultimately that made my mind up.

Now my decision is which surgeon to use. I have narrowed this decision down to Dr. Garaffa at International Andrology or Dr. Kuehhas in Vienna.

Obviously the main concern is complications, but after speaking to Dr. Garaffa, he has said that the success rate for virgin patients (patients that have not been operated on before) is around 98%. He also confirmed that length loss will be minimal as it will be the same as when I force my erection straight, which is exactly the same.

However, I know that many people here have had successful surgeries with Dr. Kuehhas and I have seen very little from people's experience with Dr. Garaffa.

I would appreciate any opinions you may have...

Many thanks

Jim

i F^@$!ng swear almost every second person here has a 7+ inch dick. its absolutely insane and incomprehensible. how much, just how much do you have to get fuckwd to get this at 20 with a 12 CM penis before peyronies? how insane would you have to bw to not legitimately consider shooting your self in the head with a gun if in that position?

[kusher]

And  the stage marketing drama continues..

[TonySa]

As far as suspect posts created to support a particular surgery by a specific physician, it may look like a new poster who only has a few posts only speaking to that surgery.  Soxora, what brought you to this forum?  Do you have Peyronie's or ED?

[Jack1909]

There is too little literature on STAGE, too little comparative literature as well. The study they make you see could mean nothing, i dont think is that hard to get to this conclusion. Basically they can write whataver they want and no one can lift his hand up to say you are wrong. That's in general a problem concerning literature from Surgery as surgery is not like making patients on pills and check what happens. Surgeon makes all the difference and It's absolutely in the realm of possible bumping into another study in which the author claims stage is even worse than other techniques. And he might be wrong as well.

As I told you many times, surgeon is what are you are supposed to look at when it comes to making a choice. Not technique.

I don't have nothing to hide. As I said I personally followed some Italian patients and some are ok and some not. I'm doing a retro viewing and trying to reach them out. I spoke with two guys having graft surgery, first one for both, and they both Got ED from the procedure.

I also said many times my case was more complex but that doesn't mean I deserved to end up such impotent. Moreover I deserved an answer on why I ended up like this and Kuehhas didn't give me. He made me fly up and down and this combined to a giant failure surgery got me into depression. That's unacceptable, I could even jumped out a window and in this case Kuehhas would have made a real contribute to it. You don't abandon people and if you are world class surgeon, your need to explain what you did and what happened.

I have even posted a pic of my penis, who else did? I Would post other but i cant have full erections so they would give incomplete information to the forum.

Kusher s story is a rollercoaster. I told him many times it's hard to get something from his posts as its all up and down. Myself were like this prolly because I was taken by emotions but ehi I think the last 3-4 years of posting made it clearer.  

[peter123]

There is too little literature on STAGE, too little comparative literature as well. The study they make you see could mean nothing, i dont think is that hard to get to this conclusion. Basically they can write whataver they want and no one can lift his hand up to say you are wrong. That's in general a problem concerning literature from Surgery as surgery is not like making patients on pills and check what happens. Surgeon makes all the difference and It's absolutely in the realm of possible bumping into another study in which the author claims stage is even worse than other techniques. And he might be wrong as well.

As I told you many times, surgeon is what are you are supposed to look at when it comes to making a choice. Not technique.

I don't have nothing to hide. As I said I personally followed some Italian patients and some are ok and some not. I'm doing a retro viewing and trying to reach them out. I spoke with two guys having graft surgery, first one for both, and they both Got Erectile Dysfunction from the procedure.

I also said many times my case was more complex but that doesn't mean I deserved to end up such impotent. Moreover I deserved an answer on why I ended up like this and Kuehhas didn't give me. He made me fly up and down and this combined to a giant failure surgery got me into depression. That's unacceptable, I could even jumped out a window and in this case Kuehhas would have made a real contribute to it. You don't abandon people and if you are world class surgeon, your need to explain what you did and what happened.

I have even posted a pic of my penis, who else did? I Would post other but i cant have full erections so they would give incomplete information to the forum.

Kusher s story is a rollercoaster. I told him many times it's hard to get something from his posts as its all up and down. Myself were like this prolly because I was taken by emotions but ehi I think the last 3-4 years of posting made it clearer.

This entire forum is a Rollercoaster between hope and voluntary forced death for me

[Jack1909]

You are right. The disease itself is kind of up and down and the forum gathers So many different conditions. ED for its nature behave like a wave. Pain the same.  

[kusher]

And the marketing campaign keeps sparking all the way up. As I said , after stage surgery, my left side stopped working perfectly ( extreme narrowing ) and I ended up with non absorbable suture. If you would like to believe me, you are welcome. If not, then u can throw urself into the ocean or read other stories. I don't care wt u choose.

Am I the first person to have my left sided severely impacted by the stage surgery? This is a question u should ask the forum members.

Gd effort on the marketing tho  

[Jack1909]

I had stage technique, not grafting. No pre op ED, extremely severe later.  

[Jack1909]

Your comments are getting fishy, honestly I already explained that but I do again if you want.

I had a frenuloctomy and then 2 operations before the STAGE. I was checked before getting into stage and yes I did have a lot of sensation problems but what this has to do with ED?

Honestly you are getting me upset. You are using my words against me and you are not even doing it right. The damages you are referring to are on sensation which actually wasn't irreversible, so Kuehhas didn't get it right even on it. Again, what sensation has to do with it?

A year later I was still convinced as Kuehhas kept doing brainwashing on me. Every patient of him can tell you that, he is not only good at words but he keeps on saying that you need to do stretching for one year and plus, getting extender on for at least one year and so on. I'm tired of your assumptions so let's see if I can post the pre op examination on I had with him.

Can you understand all the things you have taken from me don't prove what are you are trying to prove? I'm a serious person and I will not answer you back again. And again , I don't hate stage I just think Kuehhas is a poor surgeon and prolly a poor man if has to get some people into the forum oh his behalf. Because you made one thing clear, and that's the following. There is no reason for you for doing the crusade you are doing in order to defend STAGE. On the other hand, it's pretty understandable why kusher  is strongly against it. And why I'm against Kuehhas. We had poor results.

I was at Kuehhas s office till late 2015 probably 2016, so that explains the timeline you are referring to. After two years of bullshits I started to open my eyes. What's the problem with it? I spent one year and more doing that traction and listening to him saying nothing can be said before one year and so on.

At that time I thought techniques were important, now years later and many cases seen later I think surgeon is far more important. Again what's the problem with it?  

[Jack1909]

I don't see what's difficult here. It's pretty clear: a young guy full of hope which gradually starts opening his eyes. And of course I got mental issues, who the hell would have not if you get trough what that good at nothing made me get trough? Do you have any idea of what going up and down 7 8 times from Italy to London means? You go and you have a doctor which is only on dodging your precise questions? And you come in here and make your assumptions...

[bricedu13]

Soxora, I just discovered the Egydio 2.0 technique and I am interested, but is it feasible for congenital curvatures or is it only when you want to have an implant?

[TonySa]

Soxora, you seem quite convinced stage surgery is the way to go.  There's just not a lot of folks here who've had it to research.  Please take measurements and photos before and after and let us know how it goes-the more info and patient experiences we have the better.  
I would ask have you measured the degree of your curvature?  Also, looking at it is shocking to you, but have you tried intercourse yet?  Many guys have a natural curve and it's totally useable.  At the right angle (depending on the direction of the curve) you can directly stimulate your partners errogenous zone   (gSpot for women and Prostrate for men).  I think this is the only remaining consideration For you before moving forward w stage.

[TonySa]

Soxora, that's good news you had sex w 40 degree curve.  I've heard from others who were able to as well.  What direction is your curve, up, down, left or right or a compound angle?

[Jack1909]

Of course i took it personally, you took sentences out of context to prove I'm lying. Honestly what do you want from us? Go for stage, go to Egidio or whoever and that's all.

[redbullmaster]

I honestly think your point is a lie. First of all, how come both of them bring the same result but STAGE is much more expensive? How would that make sense??

STAGE is a really complex procedure, because it involves geometric techniques that results in a low length loss, and the success rate is much higher than normal plication. And, the most important imo: absorbable sutures, unlike normal plication procedures In fact, most problems with normal plication involves popped sutures and pain during erection because of them.

The creators of STAGE made a study between 2006-2012 with 145 people. They obtained 98.6% of success, and 1.4% of recurrence of the curve, none of them had Erectile Dysfunction after. Maximum length loss was 0.9cm! Plication usually cuts off 1.5 ~3 cm.

You really want to compare the worldwide best surgery for congenital cases with classic plication?? Plication are known as 70% success surgeries, Erectile Dysfunction, Pain. Normal plication are made by NORMAL urologists, those guys that created STAGE are known everywhere. Theyve published about this all around the world, they got a lot of awards and theyve done thousands of surgeries.

Plication and STAGE are the same? Really??

I said length loss is the same for both surgery's, only way to end up with a straight penis is to match the short side.
Both surgery's do this, anyone who says different is lying to you, not scientifically possible to have a different result.

It's more expensive because it was marketed as a safer surgery which preserved more length than the Plication surgery.
It was in the early days pushed on this site as the best surgery to have, in time we found out this not to be the case.
As many unhappy men have posted about there results.

I wanted to believe this to be true, as I had a failed Plication were the curve came back, so doing my research on this site I had the Stage under Dr Kuehhas. The curve came back, along with a more deformed penis I had more worse Erectile Dysfunction which I ended up getting an implant for.

Just because something is more money doesn't mean it's better, the Plication has been around longer and is less invasive than the Stage. So more surgeons can carry out the operation which should carry a lower risk to it.  

Absorbable sutures are used in the Plication as well by the way, some surgeons don't. But that's a conversation to ask them about there reasons about which type they prefer to use.

You seem to have got caught up in the hype and unfortunately have a lot of misinformation on these type's of surgery's  

[soxora]

Well, Im sorry that you had bad results with stage. This thread motivated me to do a success rate research at this forum. Im not saying that STAGE is the only and best solution, im just trying to discuss if it is or not the best first surgery option. Btw, there are a lot of members here that went to STAGE, and ended with almost the same length as preop. unlike a lot of members that went the nesbit/plication way. Oh, honest question, could you explain me how plication is safer? It really looks like a procedure with bad outcomes.

So, about the success rates: (I tried to focus on congenital cases, CC: congenital curvature)

- STAGE (if i forgot someone, or if i made a mistake, please tell me, so we can get an accurate rate)

   Success: 1. @Oh Boy (Injury, 1st surgery), 2. @DJim (CC, 1st surgery), 3. @zoli1995 (CC, 1st surgery), 4. @DanP (CC, 1st surgery), 5. @Stevew87 (CC, 1st surgery), 6.  @DrDoom (CC, 1st surgery), 7. @Henn (CC, 2nd surgery), 8. @K.Bouter (CC, 1st surgery), 9. @qwertyman (CC, 1st surgery), 10. @newg1234 (CC, 1st surgery), 11. @dcckrb (CC, 2nd surgery), 12. @keepitstraight (CC, 1st surgery), 13. @scorpion22 (CC, 2nd surgery), 14. @fefgeug (CC, 1st surgery), 15. @junkai (CC, 1st surgery), 16. @JN (CC, 1st surgery), 17. @Tim_B (CC, 1st surgery), 18. @Cc (CC, 1st surgery), 19. @danCC (CC, 2nd surgery), 20. ArtDude (CC, 1st surgery), 21. @Suba (CC, 1st surgery), 22. @Schoeni (not clear, 1st surgery), 23. @Vicsim (CC, 1st surgery).

   Failure: 1. @kusher (CC, 3rd surgery - Erectile Dysfunction), 2. @jack1909 (CC, 3rd surgery - Erectile Dysfunction), 3. @sargus (CC, 1st surgery - Recurrence of curve), 4. @Henn (CC, 1st surgery, recurrence of curve), 5. @daved2 (Peyronie, 2nd surgery - couldnt find the reason, but he went to a 3rd one (plication)), 6. @yyy (Peyronie, couldnt find), 7. redbullmaster (im tired of looking, i will just believe your last post, 2nd surgery - Erectile Dysfunction)

General Success rate in this forum: 23/30 ->  76%

General Success rate in this forum as FIRST surgery: 19/21 -> 90%

Extras:

Rate of people that already had surgery before STAGE and had bad results after stage: 4/8 -> 50%

Btw, I just ignored members that posted that was going under STAGE for a 1st attempt and they never came back, imo they had success and went on with life, but i could be very wrong. Im also very skeptical, but looks like the forum itself proved that STAGE is a good try for a FIRST SURGERY. Isnt 19/21 success as first try a great result for this forum?

Something to consider: The 2 people who had bad results with STAGE as a 1st surgery were @Henn and @sargus. Henn had recurrence and he went to another STAGE, and, according to him, it corrected the remaining curve and it was a success. @sargus reported a recurrence of 50% after 27 months after stage procedure, and that was his last post. The stage article does say that recurrence could happen (1,4% in their studies).

It looks like the 2nd, 3rd surgeries are more dangerous. I know, i cant prove much with this small sample, but its the reality of this forum -> if youre here, the possibility of bad results in stage as a 2nd/3rd/whatevernext surgery is currently: 50%. This prolly wont make sense to some, but i guess thats how math works when you work with a certain amount of people (this forum). If youre here, the possibility of bad results in stage as a first surgery is currently: 10%.

Of course this rates are not reliable, people who reported success are anonymous, just like the ones that had a failure procedure (I tend to believe them more) but i made a deeply research here, but still, I could be missing some members that had bad/good results with stage as 1st/2nd/3rd/whatevernext surgery, so don't decide on your surgery based on this statistic alone.


- NESBIT
      coming soon

- PLICATION
      coming soon

[soxora]

ive deleted my posts. I was trying to make a point, but I was just being rude with @kusher and @jack1909, and im sorry for that. The lack habilities in English prolly made me sound like an arrogant cocky person. I was putting my thoughts above others, withou numbers. So there it goes, a post with numbers. Again: Its just a sampling post, my opinion is obviously there, but im not trying to generalize.

[TonySa]

It did get heated, but we can all move in from that and share our own experiences.  We'll never all agree.  😊

[redbullmaster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwN3Nbebbjw

This is the Stage surgery, as you see they cut into the penis, where with a plication they just use sutures to shorten the long length. There's not much difference between them and it will come down to to skill of your surgeon on your result.

This is with a congenital curve, if you have a bad scar tissue with Peyronies they may remove the plaque.
So I think Erectile Dysfunction is an issue with both surgery's and a risk you should take into consideration.    

Don't forget the Plication has been around a lot longer than the Stage surgery, so there's a larger pool of results to get outcomes form.

Plus all the positive results not on this forum come from the surgeons themselves, who do push the surgery they making money on

By the way, I'm not saying you shouldn't have the Stage, I'm just pointing out the false information on it.

As for members ended up with almost the same length with the stage surgery and not the Plication I call BS.

They would have ended up with the same size regardless of which surgery they had.
The only way they wouldn't is if both sides of the penis was shortened at the same time.  

The one Big difference between the surgery is the aftercare, with the stage your encouraged to stretch the penis to help with the healing process.

One thing I wasn't told about with the Plication surgery is afterwards your penis retracts to help with healing.
So after my Plication surgery my penis was only about 5 inch's long which freaked me out. but it did return to over 6.5 with time.

As your encouraged with the Stage to Stritch the penis, that returns the size quicker which might account for the believe in less of a size loss.

Traction is also suggested with the stage, so if the stretching or traction was pushed with Plication for recovery, I think that is were the size difference confusion may be.

But if you don't believe me, get a bent banana and try making the short side the same as the long side.



As to the question is Stage is the best first option, I would just make sure you have a good surgeon you trust first over the type of surgery you have done.

[soxora]

Thanks for the explanation!

[Oh Boy]

Nice job Soxora with that summary! Btw I had a CC too but I also had an injury which left little scar tissue.

Well this forum is depressing but with reason. My advice to anyone reading this and contemplating STAGE is if it's your first surgery, is simply this.

Can you live with your penis the way it is?
Yes! No surgery. Call a therapist/counselor and get mental help you are okay! You don't need to be perfect!
No? Then call the doctor and decide from there. Life can get way worst or way better.

Getting the surgery done was one of my best decisions, but it was one of the worst for others, way the risks and chose!  

[mst]

Why you still write about STAGE?
1. Why any recognised surgeon in the USA does NOT use STAGE at all?
2. You should read some posts on this forum and what some famous surgeons like dr Gelman think about the Stage. I remember some posts where very professional surgeon told very negative and critical things about that technique.
3. Why you consider that kind of surgery and technique instead seeing doctors like dr Gelman, Brian Christine or Levine, the doctors  of the best success rate in that kind of surgeries? You will feel a lot better if you will choose your surgeon correctly and wisely. Choosing a surgeon like Kuehhas, who had a lot failed surgeries is not wise!

There was a member who had 2 surgeries failed with Kuehhas (grafting and then Stage to fix that) and in the end, dr Gelman fixed him for good. Just look at the CVs of doctors like dr Joel Gelman. It looks like a book and that means something.

[kusher]

I agree with wt is written here. If u want a real and honest surgeon that will provide a legit treatment, then go for plication with gelman. However, if u want a fake snake oil then go for kuehhas/stage. The stage surgery literally destroyed my penile left side structure and made me have a half functional penis with tight non absorbable suture. U can simply say that my sexuality has been eradicated by the stage snake oil .